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Question for TK, TC and mini-rant.
The local utility recently did a big infrastructure re-piping etc along my local bike path-rails to trails route. It went on for almost 8 months and generated large amounts of trash (from lunches drinks, construction waste etc) which i complained about to the utility with some success although I still ended up cleaning up a ton (figuratively) myself.
My question is this when they re-soded the whole thing they used a sod that had a plastic net backing? Which now is fluttering around in big piles and sticking up through the badly compacted and worn sodded greenway. Why would you use a sod with plastic netting, which will take forever to degrade and looks aesthetically ugly??? I have seen plenty of sod lain down without netting just and only plain old organic material or maybe burlap.

Can anyone explain the logic? Or was it just cheaper??

Sep 8, 08 6:03 pm  · 
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treekiller

nam- first, hats off for giving a hoot and pickup after the slobs.

the plastic geo-textile is to reinforce the sod during installation, to prevent erosion (not that it does), and to increase the wear resistance of the turf (not that it does either). depending on the area to be sodded, they may have used large rolls of sod installed by machines. these sod rolls are grown in 'trays' with the mesh so it won't break when harvested/installed. compared to the 18"x36" 'tiles' of sod delivered on a pallet and installed by hand, the rolls are cheaper with significantly less labor required. plastic is used cause it don't decompose, since the turf farms don't know when they will sell the sod and how long a life span the backing needs.



Sep 8, 08 6:37 pm  · 
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TK..
That basically what i figured to cut down on labor costs. I think i might have even see the machine they used. It just blows my mind though that one would use not decomposable plastic to grow grass (or anything organic on). I could understand if as you said it actually served as a growing matrix. But it doesn't and you just end up with plastic floating around. I guess maybe if it was in a low traffic are it might work....

Anyways. Thanks for the explanation..

Also has anyone read the new feature on Kevin Roche?
Personally I had never heard of him until now. I must say the monumentality and scaled beauty of the New Haven Veterans Memorial Coliseum and the rational solution for parking which resulted in an wonderful programmatic solution are breathtaking. I also really like the massing and raised aspect of his proposals for the Federal Reserve Bank Tower and the Millenial development in Singapore.

My two cents...

Sep 8, 08 8:06 pm  · 
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i just read that. i never knew hew was that interesting and am sad to say it took archinect to find out. very smart work with program. style-wise not so compelling for me, but still very impressive. the tower on stilts is amazing. i wonder if the FAR is maxed out even with that big open space at bottom.

that sod is scary. money as motivation i understand, but when it makes that kind of product i don't get it. seems irresponsible to make and use really.

Sep 8, 08 8:25 pm  · 
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didn't know roche??!! what are they teaching in arch history these days?

he was a saarinen pupil and did some really wonderful (if heavy) work in the generation after saarinen.

actually, i think the post office his office did in columbus in is on the verge of demolition. no respect!

Sep 8, 08 9:11 pm  · 
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snook_dude

Kevin Roche designed a tower building in Worcester Mass with a sloped roof which pre-dates Stubbins Citicorp building. The project as orginally planned was very impressive...the final result due to economics...not as good but still a damn impressive building which alot of freeloaders jumped on incoporated into their buildings...
including the one and only Phillip Johnson in his twin towers...with sloped roof configuration somewhere in Texas....Help me Sarah.

Sep 8, 08 9:26 pm  · 
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http://www.pritzkerprize.com/Laureates.htm

check out the list. we should all at LEAST know all the pritzker winners... any others unfamiliar?

Sep 8, 08 9:32 pm  · 
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liberty bell

I could never have pulled the name Gottfried Boehm out of my gray matter, but do remember him from school when i look at the pictures of his work.

I know Kevin Roche best for the pyramids he did here in Naptown. There were supposed to be 9, but only 3 were built. They are now surrounded by the worst strip mall/big box/chain hotel crap you can imagine, but still have quite a presence. I imagine seeing them rising alone out in a cornfield 30 years ago they were breathtaking.

Sep 8, 08 9:41 pm  · 
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liberty bell

Oh and say it three times fast: Roche Dinkeloo Roche Dinkeloo Roche Dinkeloo it's fun!

Sep 8, 08 9:42 pm  · 
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vado retro

columbus has small town values...and although it has several buildings by high profile architects, it mostly looks like this...

Sep 8, 08 9:53 pm  · 
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treekiller

sw- for all of nam's brilliance and keen observations about architecture/urbanism, its easy to forget that he didn't go to arch school. so don't blame architectural history, cause I don't think that this was part of the curriculum in med school.

Sep 8, 08 10:11 pm  · 
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liberty bell

Wait, what? Nam?

For those of you not following the political threads, Steven mentioned on one of them today's airing of Terry Gross' interview with Tom Friedman on his book Hot, Flat and Crowded. It's about the future of energy use in the US and the world. And he is a really engaging, goofy, fun speaker, discussing scarily serious topics. Highly recommended listening.

Sep 8, 08 10:16 pm  · 
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treekiller

a more fascinating late modernism titan that has been forgotten/ignored by architecture history courses is Nat Owings.

who?
oh one of the protean cofounder in 1936 of a small firm in chicago and author of The spaces in between & the american aesthetic

Sep 8, 08 10:18 pm  · 
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vado retro

i listened to that interview while i was driving around. drill baby drill...

Sep 8, 08 10:25 pm  · 
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liberty bell

techno: Here is a link to some pictures from a train trip the blog author recently took, from Indianapolis to DC. It looks fun, but as has been said by others train travel in the US, outside of the Eastern corridor, is a romantic but not very efficient way to travel.

I took Amtrak from Portland Oregon to Kalamazoo Michigan once, with a stopover in Chicago. It was fun, I'm glad I did it, but yeah, kinda exhausting. Three days in the train, and on the return trip - in December - one of the onboard toilets froze and exploded in Montana - so the rest of the trip the train smelled like urine. Lots of delays due to frozen tracks, too. Of course you won't have that problem in autumn, and the landscape from the train could be wonderful.

I took Amtrak between Portland and Seattle once too - that was fun, but the conductor that trip was a jerk, I remember.

And I took Acela/Amtrak often between Philly-NYC. Ugly landscape, but efficient and no need to park in the city.

Sep 8, 08 10:27 pm  · 
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vado retro

personally i can't stand thomas friedman he is a "liberal hawk" he was all for going into iraq and probably would like to see us go into iran. however, now he realizes that being dependent on oil is not a good thing and this is news.

Sep 8, 08 10:34 pm  · 
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Thanks TK,
Only four others i didn't know.
Gottfried Boehm, Hans Hollein, Sverre Fehn and Gordon Bunshaft.
But keep in mind i am not actually an architect by training or profession...
And i must say out of those four the work of the last two esp Gordon Bunshaft impresses me the most, on first glance.

Particularly these...





As for my "brilliance etc". Most of it is purely via osmosis either from the many friends (including Quillian) that i made during my undergraduate and graduate degrees at U of F, or through the many fine brains on Archinect.
And just one smal point of correction. Although i currently work in the health care, my BA and MA were in history (specifically the study of identity and it's
articulation within and through societal processes and forms).

Sep 8, 08 10:40 pm  · 
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well, then, cool! thanks for hanging with us, nam. you must have a particularly interesting perspective on all of us architect-types' pissing and moaning.


vado, i definitely have an ambivalence about friedman, partly for the reason you mention and partly for the 'world is flat' book, which pissed me off. lots of sleight of hand synthetic statements that left me saying 'but but but....'

i won't go as far as 'can't stand' after hearing him today, though. he's not suggesting that he's found some news in the oil issue. it's not a bleeding edge revelation for him but instead a trailing edge wake-up-call. he's putting it out there that it's asinine to understand oil in 'drill baby drill' (dbd) terms and he backs that up with a solid argument.

while many of us have come to a similar place with reference to green topics and our understanding of energy use along a variety of paths, it's very seldom that i've heard an encapsulated/brief and comprehensive argument that could be sold to the attention-span-challenged dbd crowd. maybe.

Sep 9, 08 7:36 am  · 
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Good morning all,
SW, it has been my pleasure. As i said my original interest was sparked by numerous friends who were/are architecture students (and soon to be practicioners).
Plus, my day job doesn't really give me an avenue to explore my personal/real interests. So, i try and live vicariously through you all.

I actually think about going back to school for another graduate degree in urban design/eco-urbanism every couple of months. I have just had a hard time selling myself on all the applications trouble..But the idea intrigues me.

Sep 9, 08 8:07 am  · 
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vado retro

steven, lb et al. you may want to read CenterForEconomicPolicyAndResearch analysis of the media's (the liberal left wing media i guess) and the perpetuation of the offshore drilling myth...and even if somebody waved the drill baby drill magic wand, states like california have already said they wouldn't allow the drilling. perhaps we should just drill baby drill so we'll run out of the black gold, texas tea and old jeb will have to look for alternate uses of energy...

Sep 9, 08 8:34 am  · 
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Sarah Hamilton

Well, I guess its not as high brow as political and energy talks, but..

I just found a solid core decorative panel door in the dumpster! I've been needing a door, and this one is free! Strangly enough, I think it once was a 3-0, but the previous owners ripped it down to something else. I hope it fits for what I want to do. Oh, and its the style with the flat arch, and one infill panel made of 4" boards. I figure if its too narrow, I can have Husband add some extra wood. Cross your fingers!

And Nam, are you saying you're an Archiologist? I didnt spell that right, did I?

Sep 9, 08 9:20 am  · 
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SH,
Nope and Nope. I did study quite a bit of archaeology (becaus eone of my advisors was one), but i was i guess a "Historian"???

And it is spelled Archaeology...


Sep 9, 08 9:59 am  · 
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Sarah Hamilton

I wonder if an ArchIologist could be someone who studies architecture........

Sep 9, 08 10:02 am  · 
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treekiller

yeay! just found out that I will be eligible to become tk-rla in march!

nam- I saw that you were a historian after I made that post. Still, you have lots of brilliance and insights into urban issues. I'd even help you apply to grad school - are you willing to leave florida?

Sep 9, 08 10:43 am  · 
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liberty bell

I'm afraid I'm going to have to go on a news media fast again for the next two months. Last time I did it I was a calmer, happier person. And the election is making me a manic, angrier person.

So I may disappear from the political threads here.

I've also been commenting on a local real estate blog, trying to educate people on why painted wood is different from Dryvit. It's casting pearls before swine. I better stop that, too.

We need some good ridiculous fun threads again, like worst rock song ever or confessions of an architect!

Later all, at least I will have fun today - walking through a neighborhood of Craftsman homes looking at paint color schemes, and it's a beautiful day in the midwest!

Sep 9, 08 10:50 am  · 
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hah.

i like thom friedman. whatever his views about iraq he makes a very good point about america losing its competitive edge as the rest of the world starts to catch up. heck, if america keeps on going the way it has been, creationism is going to be taught to people instead of evolution and genetics. could you imagine if genentech founder herb boyer had been told to stay away from genetic engineering? we'd still be getting our insulin the hard way, just to start with.

just the prospect makes me shiver. either that, or the air conditioner is on too high.



steven we might have studied some of the pritzker winners, but i think not all of them. not sure why. of course i know/knew roche, but i actually had him compartmentalised into the pomo crowd, mostly based on the buildings his office has done here in tokyo (not so interesting corporate stuff in my opinion). so was nice to see that when he was young he really did amazing work. inspiring even. i wonder what happened.

hm, you know tange went the same way as well, from radical thinker and exquisite builder to bland corporate tower maker...is it the money i wonder?

Sep 9, 08 10:50 am  · 
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SH,
Quite possibly...It very often involves studying urban settlements patterns etc..

Tree, Well you were half right as you said i do work in Healthcare now...
As for leaving yeah i basically think i would need to... There are about 3-4 programs i am seriously thinking of applying to for next year. The hard part for me is that i am torn between landscape architecture because of my interest in remediation/and large scale design... Or a more urban design focused program which combines a bit of everything. There are actually some programs in urban design that do not have pre-design/architecture experience/degrees as a requirement..Although maybe not the top programs.

Once i have a bit more of a game plan i will definetely contact you and get some advice etc if you are willing..

Sep 9, 08 10:50 am  · 
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treekiller

nam- not to push my alma mater, but penn's LARP program gives you both. also grab a copy of this months Landscape Architecture Mag, there is a article on the Laurintine Vision project at the U of MN remediating/rehabilitating the iron range mines. The top programs want brilliant folks from diverse backgrounds - like you. (only the GSD want's clones - I know them's fighting words)

Sep 9, 08 11:13 am  · 
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****melt

jump - I agree with you on the Frieman front. I think a lot of what he has to say, especially concerning what the US is doing to themselves in the manufatrusing industry. One my of close friend's and her fiance work in quality control for the manufacturing sector and from everything that they've told me, we've really screwd ourselves in the long run. It also doesn't help that we are beginning to see some "service" sector jobs going overseas as well. Scares the living bejesus out of me.

Went on another site visit today. Everything is coming along beautifully. Next week they'll be installing the windows so we'll finally get to see what kind of natural light we have, as most of the windows are currently blocked up with CMU.

Sep 9, 08 12:19 pm  · 
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I don't know, LB, it looks like there's some hilarious threads out there right now... someone seems to be trying to become a gynecologist, a fisherman, or both; someone else (hopefully not the same person! but I'm not actually taking the time to read) is apparently convinced that rational thought is dead or insufficient for dictating their course in life, and there's all kinds of new school blogs starting up. That seems sufficiently entertaining for archinect, right?

I SO want this art history project to be done. Too much time in studio, too little time out dancing.

Sep 9, 08 12:38 pm  · 
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liberty bell
Too much time in studio, too little time out dancing.

Let's all repeat that several times and vow to spend more time dancing, OK?

I've been listening to soul a lot lately, something about African Americans going through as much crap as this country has thrown (continues to throw) at them and still managing to put out songs like "Love Train" and "Be Thankful for What You Got"...what an amazing attitude, what optimism and gratitude.

Sarah, thank you for reviving that old thread! I miss garpike. And I can't believe I posted a picture of myself at 23 years old - eek!! I have no shame, apparently!

Sep 9, 08 1:27 pm  · 
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vado retro

have some fun LB!!!

Sep 9, 08 1:47 pm  · 
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WonderK

I, too, miss dancing....

Sep 9, 08 2:12 pm  · 
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Sarah Hamilton

I only dance at weddings. But I don't do the solo dancing either.

Sep 9, 08 2:22 pm  · 
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zoolander

Thats a catchy little groove.

I might pull a few of those shapes when I get my dancing shoes on Friday night. Alternatively, I might put my drinking boots on.

Sep 9, 08 2:24 pm  · 
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vado retro

for those who miss DaNciNg! an older song from my future wife...

Sep 9, 08 2:28 pm  · 
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Sarah Hamilton

Vado, how much longer will she be your future wife?

Sep 9, 08 3:18 pm  · 
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Sarah Hamilton

oh, wait, were you talking specifically about the video? Thats not who I meant.

Sep 9, 08 3:19 pm  · 
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****melt

I haven't been dancing in too long of a time. Damn I miss it. As trite as this may sound my friends in college referred to me as the dancing queen. Ahhhh, here comes the nostalgia.

vado - excellent song.

Sep 9, 08 5:36 pm  · 
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vado retro

the archinect house party is at tuna's and it will look somthin' like this... HitIt!!!

Sep 9, 08 6:06 pm  · 
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i rarely pop in here, but hey i'm up and feeling more sociable than usual.
i try and get out to club for some serious all night dancing about one every 2 months. always the best time, but couldn't do it more, recovery time isn't what it used to be.

Sep 9, 08 6:18 pm  · 
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Hi P2an...

TK,
i posted a response to your post in the Ubiquitous City thread

Sep 9, 08 8:08 pm  · 
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i dance with my daughters quite a bit. does that count? we all sing and dance through the day, except my wife, who is not so comfy making a fool of herself. however, she lovingly/grudgingly puts up with random bursts of song at the dinner table, which i really do appreciate. ;-)

Sep 9, 08 8:23 pm  · 
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liberty bell

In addition to Love Train and TSOP MFSB, this song is making me feel good today, sorry the "video" isn't one, but you can hear the song.

Sep 9, 08 9:00 pm  · 
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liberty bell

And yes I groove around the house to it with Angus - he was even singing it with me yesterday! Like you, jump, it's great fun dancing and singing with kids!

Sep 9, 08 9:01 pm  · 
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treekiller

nam- thanks, saw that, didn't have any more to ad as you made some great points that stand on their own.

Sep 9, 08 9:12 pm  · 
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mantaray

jump, my s.o. doesn't feel comfortable making a fool of himself either, but he is perfectly content to watch me do it! :) I appreciate him for it. He never complains when I whistle tunelessly or sing to myself walking down the street or just start skipping. He won't run to keep pace with me, but he does chuckle at me and smile. It's a good arrangement, n'est-ce pas?

nam... amazing, i thought you were an arch. student! you must have a much better brain than i do to be able to keep two professions in your head at once. awesome, glad you're here.

and finally...
i am proud to report i only missed two names on that list: roche and sverre fehn. of the two, i'm amazed by sverre fehn's work! i'm inspired to go check out more of him. thanks for the link that lead to the tip-off, steven. a little inspiration is always a good thing.

lb, i too am taking a media break. i've been doing nothing but get madder and madder lately. although am looking forward to some hilarity this weekend when i make the time to go see Burn After Reading. it looks SO GOOD.

in other esoterica:
If I had had a blog while in school, it would have gone a lot like this:

man, i am sooooooooooo tired. man oh man. if i go to bed right now i could get 3.5 hours before i have to get up for history. but man i am sooooo behind... ugh! my parti is just... totally random... it's ugly and i hate it. ugh... i'm sooooo tired... hahahaha someone just said "architects do it all night long" that is SO TRUE. it's cold in here. ok g'night!

...I know, because that's what a lot of my sketchbooks from that era look like. Well apart from the shaky scribbles left from me falling asleep while sketching slides in arch history.

So, I am so impressed by all the bloggers... even if they don't have time to keep it up, they're off to a good start!

Sep 9, 08 9:14 pm  · 
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treekiller

I've invited SW & LB to join the fun on facebook. they may need a little more persuasion of why it's such a pleasurable time suck that is worthwhile...

oh, wK, did you just pass the AP exam or was that a name change I just noticed?

Sep 9, 08 9:15 pm  · 
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mantaray - check out the sverre fehn monograph. one of my all-time favorite books. beautiful work.

got tk's invite, but really. really. i don't need any more ways to blow time.

speaking of soul music, my wife just turned on fashion rocks and beyonce was singing the standard 'at last' as a tribute to etta james. and she totally smoked it. it was beautiful. makes me wonder: after singing a song like that, how can beyonce keep performing the crap she usually does?

Sep 9, 08 9:19 pm  · 
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liberty bell

God, At Last is such an awesome song as sung by a woman with serious "pipes". I fantasize about karaoke-ing that song, but I doubt I'll ever be that drunk.

but really. really. i don't need any more ways to blow time. Steven's words, but I might as well have been saying them. I've got to get some WORK done, you wonderful people always keep me distracted enough as it is! ;-)

Sep 9, 08 9:34 pm  · 
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