yep, some snow up here as well, above 10000

Ah, I was wondering who owned the new screen name, now I get it. Sounds like an adventure! Wild turkey is one of my favorite meats, just has to be cooked low and slow.

JCL - No snow in my area but it was raining HARD! 

WG - I've never made wild turkey so this will be an adventure!  I figured the new screen name was more appropriate.  :)

How does wild turkey taste compared to our normal Butterball-type bird?

Wild turkey gets you drunk quicker

I don't like Wild Turkey, but I had my first Woodford Reserve in a loooong time last night, I'm sad to say it was delicious. I've been boycotting Kentucky bourbon until Mitch McConnell is dead but I went to a brand new locally-owned and operated club last night and I decided supporting them in the moment was worth breaking my boycott momentarily. The club is a re-opening of a historic Black-owned nightclub from the 40s, the folks that opened it are local Black nonprofit developers trying to revitalize the neighborhood. I did a volunteer day cleaning out the old building a few weeks ago, and now they're open! Very exciting.

I love Woodford Reserve. Many years ago we had done a bourbon tasting in Downtown Louisville where they had a 18 year Woodford Reserve sample. 2nd best bourbon, the first being the extremely $$$ Pappy Van Winkle. Great stuff.

Good job Donna on helping the club re-open, you are good people indeed.

I've never had wild turkey (the bird). This will be a culinary adventure for me! Wait, what if I baste the wild turkey with WILD TURKEY?

Donna, wild turkey (the bird) tastes similar in ways to confinement-raised birds, but the meat is denser and even the breasts are dark meat, they're a bit gamier but not extremely so, the texture and taste is almost like a cross between store-bought turkey and stew beef. Cooked for a long time at a low temperature, like stew beef, the flavor mellows and the texture is very beef-like. Roasted like a Thanksgiving turkey, it's chewy and gamey, but still edible. At least that's my experience. I haven't had it in a while. A former co-worker was an avid hunter but his family didn't eat wild meat so he gave me his spoils regularly. The one thing I miss about working at that company.

He's arguing with them?!? Really?

I'm pretty sure Rick called a former employer of mine once because he didn't like what I posted.

So happy I've got him on ignore. Makes it really easy to "nope" right back out of a thread when I see all the "Richard Balkins is ignored by you"

ditto. I have no idea what that is about and glad for it. Archinect is great because there are few people that I ever feel the need to block out. Lately some surprise me with hateful posts that I'm not sure what to do with. The internet is filled with anonymous hate all the time, and Archinect usually is not the place to attract that material. But here it is now, dropping in with the tide.

looks like a heavy shake-up in the production teams.

or the market is tanking

Recruiters (and employers) are being literal clowns offering circa 2010 salary ranges in the UK, probably similar over the pond. We should all unionise and do a hostile takeover of Adobe and Autodesk to pay our own and the following generations pensions. I'm not joking.

Salaries are a reflection of the marketable skills of the applicant and what the clients are willing to pay. Want more cash? Become more valuable to clients or start your own gig and charge what you believe you’re worth. Unions won’t solve your problem.

I would

Oops, didn’t mean to hit return. Job market isn’t really tanking where I am. People are still willing to pay decent amounts for someone with a license and experience. It was just this one recruiter. Do you even know this market?

That question was meant for the recruiter.

that is crazy donna. I've been to enough disaster sites over the years that I should not be surprised by the aftermath, but its always a body blow. All that damage and detritus represents the remains of people's lives and work, turned in no time at all to nothing at all. It's sad to see, and sadder that we will have more of this going forward.

Literally every single post in that thread is a raging dumpster fire of bad-faith argumentation cloaked in psychological projection. Best to ignore it all.

I had to reply, I couldn't resist. Also, there has been discussion in the past amongst the mods of slowing Bulgar's roll, they really don't contribute much of use usually, only every now and then.

I considered throwing a few sticks into that fire but then thought otherwise. Perhaps it was the sweet Neil Young playing on the turn table in the background, perhaps I’m just getting too old for this shit. Maybe both?

I'm just going to reply to all of Richard's posts with "Systemic racism exists in the US."

gwharton wrote:

"Literally every single post in that thread is a raging dumpster fire of bad-faith argumentation cloaked in psychological projection. Best to ignore it all. "

Not really. The posts proclaiming that systemic racism doesn't exist in the US are full of it.  Best to call out the erroneous BS when it's posted. Free speech doesn't mean free from criticism for what you say.   

All of them. Those ones too. Just a bunch of televisions yelling commercials at each other.

GW, that's a copout. Yes nobody expects BB to change his mind, but that doesn't mean that the other arguments are worthless. Quite the opposite. 

gwharton - Then why do you post your views about immigration, race, and libertarian ideals for the economy? Your 'evidence' to support your views have been shown to be incorrect. You know you're not going to get anyone here to agree with you on those views. 

You're more a television yelling commercials than anyone here.

You're a hypocrite.

Hey... keep the pissing contest out of TC.

Fair enough. Still doesn't change that gwharton scolded us for pissing on other people shoes while he pissed on ours.  gwharton is just upset that he was called out on it.  

Exactly. gwharton just wants to agree with BB and Rick without actually saying that.

Things would be so much easier if we just pretended that everyone has equal access to success, if only they'd work hard enough.

It's a sign of a cowardly, embarrassed, and scared person who lies to themselves so they can get through the day.

Maybe they really do think that all it takes is hard work.

I hope so. I've found people like that are rather sheltered, haven't traveled much, and only surround themselves with people similar to them. If not . . .

Yeah i think i've single handedly learned the most from you. Not even including the book!

Aw thanks Donna and Bench. It was one version of my story, meant to illustrate my point. It's all true, but I can also tell the story in a more positive light--I probably would not not have had the wide array of experience I have had if I had taken a different path, and I probably would not have been happy following a conventional path.

It's nice when there is some redeeming architectural feature to look at, but you're right, as long as there is a seat at the bar, it really doesn't matter.

I posted this from IND, which is actually a really lovely airport. Award winning, even!

We should have a thread on Airports.;-) The new PDX is really nice. The new SEA terminal is only so-so. ATL is literally hell on earth ("Atlanta isn't Hell, but it's the last stop on the way there.")

I'm always nervous about taking pictures in airports. The best I've been so far is rejkavik.

Madrid is a dream airport for both design and organization. Munich is organized and signed really well but the design is so German it's practically not there. The terminal I flew through in Istanbul was amazingly fancy and well designed. Airports are universally shit in the Americas. I'll try to check out the new PDX soon though.

I've actually enjoyed the Minneapolis and Denver airports.

Atlanta is quite horrible, reminded me of a really bad greyhound station. But then LAX is even crappier. The "new" international terminal isn't bad, but everything around it is. 

Oslo has a very nice, well designed airport. Truly amazing.

Also Greg, isnt the new PDX one with the mass timber roof? quite spectacular

Madrid is the most beautiful airport I’ve personally experienced. I also love Detroit’s most recent wing, it was Delta I think but not sure who uses it now.

i agree with the original post, and have long loved the people watching at airports - but also note the irony that the best semi-public spaces are ones that require a $100+ ticket plus thorough security scan. the interior-outdoors aspect of airport space fascinates me, like buckminster fullers cities under domes.

Late to the thread but I agree Donna, Madrid airport is amazing and excellent. I used to love Kansai airport in Osaka back when it was new and would detour through there on the way home all the time. It is still pretty good because Piano is great, but most recently I gotta say Singapore airport is one of the coolest. Mumbai airport also lingers in my memory as an amazing place, if surreal at times. Lately thinking that the new Portland Airport would be cool to see. Wish I had an excuse to go there.

Yes the Mumbai airport is quite amazing and the fact that SOM designed and pulled it off in that context is even crazier to imagine. It is very well done but kinda bursting at its seams these days...

Any comment that can't be condensed into a single, normal-length paragraph either has too much content or too much explanation. (I try to limit myself to three short paragraphs here...)

since I've been ignoring him for a couple of years, it's both rhetoric and literal - I can't see any more comments responding to him, and I don't go there anymore.

as an architect, i do appreciate his innovative use of text as a building material to define exclusionary spaces

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"

I'm 95% sure this is the case.

Bench... yes. Probably because too many one-post pony wankers got upset and sent his office angry karen letters.

I did! I felt like a change. When you click on my profile it should still have my actual name and info.

 It wasn't because of people contacting my office. That only happened once and nothing happened other than the other owners called said user a 'wannabe architect'. 

The other time a user here lied and tried to get me in trouble with my state licensing board. They made an anonymous complaint that was found to be untruthful. The board found out who they were, informed me and they filed charges against them for fraud and defamation.  Said user has pretty much left the site.  

$10 wannabe architect is Balkins because he did the same to me at one point.

It was not Balkins. 

In fact, he wrote a very sincere and kind email to the other firm owners explaining the user who contacted them was being a immature jerk and I had been nothing but polite and professional. 

Balkins also alerted me to the users 'blog' where he was saying untrue things that were dangerously close to liable.  

Ah, DD if I recall correctly. Right?

That was one of them yes. The other I will not comment on since it involves legal action that I was not part of.  

ok! i had picked up on enough bread crumbs that i was fairly sure that was the case. sorry you had to put up with that shit. i was gone on holiday long enough that i have no idea what happened if it occurred here. sucks.

Sorry to disappoint but I'm still here. ;)

Also, outlets at the ends of kitchen islands aren't allowed in most areas.

And there I was, enjoying a calm Thursday afternoon... Thanks Donna, no I am irrationally mad.

....

I know a guy who will take care of this. 

It's gonna be OK gwarton. 

 Don't look at it. 

 Shhh, shhh, shhh. 

 It's can't hurt you anymore.  

OA, that's a brand-new rule (as of the 2023 NEC). Or maybe the outlet is sticker as well? ;-)

I find that avoiding anything fake is a good rule of thumb. If you want brick, use brick, or at least thin-brick. If you want wood-look floors, use wood floors. If you want vinyl floors, use a pattern that only vinyl can provide. "Fake" looks cheap 99.9% of the time. I don't even like asphalt shingles, which are supposed to look like either wood shake or slate; I prefer metal that looks like metal. Though that's one I don't make a fuss about.

WG - I think it's only in commercial R occupancies. If I recall, it's been in place since at least the IBC 2018. I may be wrong though.

I only do SFR design and my architect and builder friends were all shocked when we had to change the methods we were used to when the 2023 NEC was released. I had a complicated kitchen design in the works that relied on cabinet-front outlets at the sink but we had to change in the middle of construction. Technically the state code does not include the 2023 NEC but every electrician I know goes by the latest version, regardless of what the state code says.

Makes sense WG. I don't do any SFR so don't know anything about that. For commercial buildings , I believe the entire state of CO adopted the 2023 NEC in August 2023.

There is legal precedent, going back to the 1980s, that just the sheer number of RFIs on a project can be used as prima facie evidence in a claim that the architect's documentation was inadequate. Also, just a pure CYA measure, GCs document every little thing starting with an RFI because that's where the chain of future Change Proposals / Change Order creation always starts. As an architect in receipt of those RFIs, it is a best practice to record them in your tracking system with a qualifying category so you can then go back and identify how many RFIs were actually legitimate, and how many where just the GC asking random questions about stuff that has nothing to do with the design (or that they already had the answer to, but asked anyway).

To what end do we have some authority to say that’s not an RFI & not what an RFI is for?

I had a contractor, day of the pour, send an RFI requesting that I field verify existing elevations, I responded with the language from the general conditions describing the responsibilities of the contractor. Needless to say his voicemail was saved, and t-shirts will be made based on their response.

Well , if it’s not captured /documented by consultants / us architects it’s a variation isn’t it? Someone had to pay.. unless it’s a latent condition which would be dealt with differently…my 2c

I always try to establish with GCs that they should give me a call first and then follow up with an RFI for the paper trail if necessary. Most CMs don’t want to be spending all their time sending us RFIs. I also establish that I won’t be a dick to them if they missed something in the CDs.

Meaning - if they send me an RFI for something they just overlooked on the drawings that I won’t be a dick about it.

And gently remind them that the client sees these RFIs.

lss_s_mr wrote:

"Well , if it’s not captured /documented by consultants / us architects it’s a variation isn’t it? Someone had to pay.. unless it’s a latent condition which would be dealt with differently…my 2c"

Only if it adds cost to the project.

I've seen plenty of Request For Information (RFI), Architectural Supplemental Instructions (ASI), and even Proposal Requests (PR) that haven't added cost or time to the project.

proto wrote

"To what end do we have some authority to say that’s not an RFI & not what an RFI is for? "

All depends on the contracts in place.   

If it's already in the CD's or not the responsibility of the design team you can tell them such. 

How I've handled this in the past:  If the GC persist then you call  and tell them if this continues you will be informing the owner that this is an additional service. The owner will then contact the GC and charge them for the additional service.  

If you receive and RFI, you are pretty much contractually obligated to answer it. That doesn't mean the GC has to like the answer they get. As far saying "That's not an RFI", that's what recording the RFI in your log with a qualifier such as "Invalid Question" or similar is for. The RFI asks you to field verify (LMAO at that request btw)? Entered into the log as an invalid question, responded with "General Conditions Section ##### states that it is the Contractor's responsibility to..." etc. If there is ever a claim on you downstream, all of that info is right there and becomes discoverable in litigation.

gwharton - I've replied with: 

 "Look at spec section ______"

"Look at drawings on sheet  ______" 

"That is the contractor's responsibility"

"There is no question present.  Please revise to ask a question within our scope of work"

I've wanted to simply say "WTF?"

My particular irritation was that there was a discovered condition that was outside the scope of the work, but nevertheless uncovered in the process. It is of interest to the owner for sure. But it has zero to do with the contract docs. So, there is no response to be made from the design team. IMHO, it should be documented in the as-builts as part of the GC's ongoing work and handed off at the end to the owner for their project/facility records.

I've encountered this before. This RFI is a conversation between the owner and the GC. The GC may be looking to recoup cost of the unforeseen work or take it out of contingency. The only thing you can do is bring it to the owner's attention and tell the GC to be sure to document in their as-builts. I wouldn't be irritated by this - this is typical. GC needs to leave a paper trail - they've got a million things going on and if it's in an RFI it won't get lost.

just another week-long dumbster fire until the real fun starts.

right there with you, donna & yeah NS, that's just the carnival opening...

some moron decided to try & blow up a ballot collection box here in the rose city. Luckily the attempt failed.

i put my ballot in Sat...hopefully it found its way to the counting facility [I haven't seen the confirming text yet]

In talking with my company, we decided to strategically renew my work visa this summer to avoid any 'uncertainty' that might come up in the next few months.

I've stocked up on ammo, arrows, venison, and medication. Just in case.

I've stocked up on marshmallows and pointy sticks. I'm sure I'll be able to roast them just fine from a safe distance.

I mean you already have hockey equipment. That's 80% of the weapons and protection you'd need in any end of civilization event.

Ain’t no body shoot up a schools with hockey sticks, so don’t call them weapons. They are tools that occasionally serve up good face slaps.

I've watched hockey. They're weapons. If they're in the right players hands they're deadly! ;)

Pfffff, that’s just a game.

Game, you say?

3 to 6y exp tho... Perhaps their list of skills is too much for what is likely an intermediate position? 70kusd per year is what you'd expect a senior arch with 10-15y exp to earn in my area (ie. 100k CAD).

In NYC 70k a year is 1-3 years experience.

@NS I definitely think their desired skills and estimated yrs of experience are mis-aligned. 3 years of experience is nothing. Certainly not "Advanced Architectural Designer" Obviously they want someone with 8+ years of experience and to pay them like a new grad in butt-fucked middle of nowhere midwest. (or a foreign country with lower wages)

I thought about 'applying' to the posting but in the cover letter explaining the absurdity of what the firm is asking. 

archanonymous - even people like me from butt-fucked middle of nowhere midwest would laugh at this job offer.

At least they posted the salary in the listing to keep people away. I spent a month interviewing with one of Selldorf's piers in a mid tier city only to end it with them offering me $85k for 8 years of experience.

Depending on the city $85K could be a good offer.

It was a 25% pay cut from my current role, so wasn't that enticing.

I assumed it was a low offer for your area. It's important to understand that different areas pay more or less for the same amount of experience.

This is why, as of this week, I’m

No longer working for an arch firm. Better pay, better hours, work is just as interesting.

What is your new position axonapoplectic?

Good for you @axonapoplectic! Share how you got it.

Welcome to the Dark Side, anon!

Oh hush gwharton- you're still in architecture and you know it.;)  

You just provide financing. You're like an architectural loan shark ;)

Now there is an idea.  Architectural loan shark.  Hmmm . . . . .

Yes, but there is work/life balance!

How is the maple syrup supply?

I’m losing it. I won’t survive this if Harris doesn’t win. I’m broken.

End of everything. People didn't show up. No faith, no country, no planet. Walked right into this with eyes wide open. I am going to sit back and watch it happen. This country is going to get exactly what it deserves.

Not surprising, there are far too many dumb people in that country.

Not smarter or dumber than anybody else, just a general lack of education and in particular, critical thinking skills. Which is all by design - that's what you get when you under fund education and promote misinformation. Unreal. It hasn't quite sunk in yet.

Yup. Now we wait and see what happens. 

I have a college who is for Trump. Her husband is an accountant. They said if Trump won they'd be able to afford a larger house rather then have to 'settle' in their 4bd, 3bath, 3,200 sf home. I informed them that it would take at least two, if not three years for economic impacts to be felt by the new admins policies. The accountant literally looked at me and said I was a fool. I just smiled and told him I hope he is a better accountant than an economist.

it doesn't take much to convince basic people to vote against their interests.

It's rather easy. You just play to their base fears that they don't want to say out loud.

Yep, almost entirely fear-based, but also with a large dose of single-issue voters who only care about fetus rights. I'll have a bit of schadenfreude as things unravel over the new few years but not a lot, as I'll be stuck in it as well.

Yup. I'm waiting for the economy to tank in the next 2-3 years. I hope this won't happen but with the promise of tariffs, the promise to cut to all digressionary spending, and the cuts to SS I'm not hopeful.

Odd - are they hoping for a housing crash? Or do they want rate drops and price increases? If you’re in a blue metro and state prices will probably go up like last time due to people fleeing red areas.

Bonus, whenever anyone up here complains about taxes, health care wait times, tuition, social services, etc... I can just keep pointing south of the border and remind them that it could be a lot worse... much worse.

If Canada was not hiding behind the US military for security your dink country would still be bi-lingual. Half of you would be speaking Chinese and the other half Russian.

Volunteer - that is the dumbest, most ignorant, and foolish comment I've ever read here.

Volunteer, that's such a sad ignorant point of view. Shows how much you know.

Well Volunteer just got ignored.

Well yeah, a lot of Canadians do speak Chinese. Just under 5 %, apparently. Not sure why that is a problem....OH! you were being racist and trying to make a point about manhood (maybe?). Sorry, I totally misunderstood.

As far as Trump winning, his core fans maybe are motivated by racism and fear and the things that are attached to the Trump personality, but I think it's really just about economics. I know the economy is doing great on paper (much better than Canada btw), but the vibe is anything but that. There is a lot of uncertainty, and inflation was a hard blow to a lot of people. Voters blame that on the persons in charge and want something else.

From what I can see the policies of the victor are hyper-inflationary and the economy could be in for a rough ride. But we will see. Hopefully it wont all be bad.

Good luck America!

The US of A is done. I'm not even being hyperbolic. Half the country voted *for* authoritarianism. They *want* it. And those of us who don't want it won't have a choice. It's not about economics: the people with new $85,000 trucks and 20 acre McMansions are doing great economically, and *they're* the ones who voted for our new dictator. They're willfully blind, and willfully stupid, and I won't be nice to any of them ever again.

Oh, forgot: you guys want me to hide Volunteer's militant racism above? Because I will. I can be authoritarian, which apparently is what many folks in the US want.

axonapoplectic wrote:

 "Odd - are they hoping for a housing crash? Or do they want rate drops and price increases? If you’re in a blue metro and state prices will probably go up like last time due to people fleeing red areas. "

I'm not really sure what they are hoping for. I think they believe that inflation will drop lower and that will somehow reduce housing costs. They seem to be ignoring the proposed tariffs and that reduced inflation won't lower current prices.

Donna - don't hide Volunteer's posts.  I just keep on calling him out on things. Also, I know who he is IRL and am waiting for him to cross the line so I can expose him to his clients and employer.

Got it, OddArchitect. I'll be curious how the whole "I never thought leopards would eat MY face!" dynamic will play out over the next four+ years.

I find it odd that many people don't seem to understand that it takes 2-3 years minimum for an administrations economic polices to have an effect on things. People like to think that if things got better or worse during an administration it is the result of that admin's polices. It's not.

Javier Milei in Argentina and Nayib Bukele in El Salvador have both been able to implement dramatic improvements in their respective national economies in much shorter time periods than that. It's a matter of will, not possibility.

That's not the US though. While Argentina and El Salvador could be considered to have a democratic republics like the US, their governments and more importantly, their economies are vastly different. 

 Also, I wouldn't say that they've implemented 'dramatic improvements'.

 Milei has just cut spending, and devalued their currently by 50%. It's too early to see if he's had a long term positive impact.

  https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm55yv0g0veo

Bukele is in his second term and has blown up his countries public debt.

https://www.reuters.com/world/...

https://www.americasquarterly....

What in the Argentina are you talking about? They're having a literal economic crisis because of Milei. What?

Exactly. gwharton just likes Milei because he's libertarian and has cut 50% of the countries government.

Argentina has over 50% poverty right now, great improvement

This very point was on the radio news today. That is so true, but people don't go that far to understand the politics of economics. I am glad you brought it up.

The US debt was low and trending down when Trump took over from Obama. They are going to goose the deficit with tax cuts then use it to justify cutting out every culture war adjacent social service. That's the extent of the economic policy.

I am comparing Argentina and El Salvador to what they were like before Milei and Bukele started their reforms. In both the improvements have been dramatic, but they were both starting from an incredibly low bar. In the US economy, inflation comes from only two things: government spending and credit expansion. 

Over the past four years, the former has been blowing up out of control, thus we have had huge inflation. Fixing that means the US government spending a LOT less money. Fortunately, most of what it spends now is waste, so that shouldn't be too hard to fix. 

Milei has been taking a similar approach to reducing government spending in Argentina, with mixed results so far (not yet a year in). Argentina started generating budget surpluses almost immediately as he slashed government spending, but the rampant inflation triggered by the prior regime has not yet fully abated. 

In El Salvador, Nayib Bukele has quickly transformed it from a hyper-violent cesspool of crime to one of the most peaceful nations in the western hemisphere, and did so in a very short period of time. That is an incredible achievement, and why he is one of the most popular elected leaders in the world. Having established peace, now he's turning toward economic revitalization. 

My point in all this is that the problems we face in our society are not systemic. They are a choice, like violence in El Salvador or insane government spending in Argentina. We can choose differently, and if we do so with enough political will large changes can happen quickly and for the better.

"In the US economy, inflation comes from only two things: government spending and credit expansion."

And covid fallout, where we had an uncaring leader who decided marketing would solve a pandemic that ultimately killed 1m americans. Maybe it could have been half or a third that with a basic effort?

The "government spending and credit expansion" here was crucial to a soft landing from that emergency, just as it is when FEMA responds to a hurricane. There is no choice to not help our citizens when nationally impacted by life altering changes they can't control.

"Over the past four years, the former has been blowing up out of control, thus we have had huge inflation."

No, inflation has recovered to almost better than normal over the last four years (after accelerating into a peak that was certainly in the first half of the last four years).

it would be silly to pretend the inflation was uniquely started in this departing admin

"Covid fallout" didn't cause inflation, assuming by that weird, vague phrase you mean the impact of the work shutdowns. Inflation is caused by an increase in the money supply, and nothing else. Covid didn't increase the money supply. Massive government spending in response to covid and other things from 2021 to 2023 certainly did. By literally trillions of dollars.

I was optimistic for the first month after her candidacy was announced, but after that I slowly came to the conclusion that Trump would likely win. I'm a bit superstitious and held out hope that Harris might pull off a win, and if you look at the margins by which Trump won the battleground states, they were mostly very narrow. But this is bigger than Trump and goes back much further and broader.

I'm in the same headspace. I'm appalled that people dismiss the lying, the self-dealing, and the intentional flouting of laws as rules-for-thee-but-not-for-me. And they voted in such numbers! I don't care what media you watch, there is no way to be unaware of who Trump is and the intentional cheating he is capable of. I guess when he's "our cheater" then it's ok? When did Americans lose sight of rule of law?

They didn't lose sight of it. There could not have been a clearer choice. They decided they don't care about it. One thing to remember even though he won more people in this country do not support him. They either stupidly didn't show up or were outside of the swing states. On a side note his supporters are batshit crazy. Certifiable. Nazis. Take a look at that dumpster fire thread. They are all like that. Some just hide it better.

The difference is: Trump's supporters are not listening to the traditional media at all, and those narratives have zero credibility with them. If this election proved one thing conclusively, it is that the old corporate media system is completely toothless and irrelevant now. It's just propaganda for niche true believers. Trump's 3-hour Rogan interview got nearly 70 million views on Youtube in less than three days. The most popular CNN segments struggle to get audiences larger than 500,000.

True but irrelevant. The future is one party rule and control of the media. When something goes wrong a different group will be blamed. The us is a smogresbosrd of groups to single out.

Started in the 80s with a conceptual reframing of the body politic. Symbolic redefinition.

Introduce contradiction as a political tool.

Constant repetition by conservative media outlets.

A brainwashed segment of the population large enough to sway an election.

A decades long project.

A warning to you. You will be singled out at some point.

I've read convincing arguments (mainly by author/historian Colin Woodard) that what is happening now is actually the end of the Civil War. The southern, feudal-like philosophy didn't gain traction again until Reagan, and they have been slowly building toward this ever since. They are narrowly focused and relatively united on what they want, which makes the diaspora of leftist and centrist views and priorities impossible (apparently) to unite in a way that could stop their endless and effective brainwashing.

wood, i saw this more as an end to the cold war with russia. to gwharton's point above, a lot of people get their news from russian propaganda on twitter.

I was waiting for someone to bring up Russian propaganda used to sway the elections. Convenient excuse...

You can't genocide and then tell people you care about their wellbeing. You can't tell people that the economy is great again if you double the child poverty rate. You can't sell compassion if you're going to build the wall and deport brown people.

GW, your thumbs down upsets me so much... It's not my idea, it's what an incredibly smart, many-award-winning journalist and book author wrote. Like I said, it was convincing. If you're interested in thinking outside of your assumptions, here's the book: https://www.amazon.com/American-Nations-History-Regional-Cultures/dp/0143122029.

Same old, Russian influence was proven for the 2020 election and obviously prominent on social media over the last year. Putin and Trump are best buddies, and Russia benefits from a week US military and economy--you don't think it's plausible that they might have interfered? I want to live in your world where everyone operates ethically and above-board.

One more. You can't spend the past 20 years telling the world that Dick Cheney and George W. Bush are criminals and then place lips firmly on their backside all while that ratfink daughter is telling her constituents that Democrats kill babies. What the fuck did you think was going to happen?

WG: I'm familiar with the book, thanks. Woodard is just ripping off David Hackett Fischer ("Albion's Seed" ... a much better book, btw) and re-presenting Fischer's thesis about the four Anglo-American folk pathways of settlement with a pop-political focus on the American Civil War instead of the English Civil War (which is the real origin of most of the cultural divisions and conflicts which Woodard is focusing on, including the American Civil War itself). If you're looking for a political exegesis on the implications of Fischer's work, Walter Russell Meade's "Special Providence: American Foreign Policy and How It Changed the World" is also pretty good.

Like any good journalist he uses and cites sources. This is what AI has to say:

While both "American Nations" by Colin Woodard and "Albion's Seed" by David Hackett Fischer explore the cultural foundations of the United States, Woodard expands on Fischer's concept by identifying a larger number of distinct regional "nations" with unique cultural characteristics, while Fischer focuses primarily on four major waves of English migration that shaped American culture, primarily along the East Coast; essentially, Woodard provides a more detailed and geographically diverse analysis of American regional cultures compared to Fischer's broader overview.

Key Differences: Number of Regions: Fischer identifies four main cultural regions based on English migration patterns (Puritans, Cavaliers, Quakers, and Scotch-Irish), while Woodard outlines eleven distinct "American Nations" including regions like the Deep South, the Far West, and New Netherland, which are not as prominently featured in Fischer's work.

Focus on Migration: Fischer heavily emphasizes the influence of different British groups and their migration patterns on American culture, whereas Woodard considers the impact of other European settlers and the evolution of regional cultures over time, not just the initial settlements.

Terminology: While both authors use terms like "Tidewater" and "Yankeedom" to describe certain regions, Woodard relabels and expands on Fischer's categories to better fit his broader analysis."

Well, Woodard is also throwing in quite a bit from Garreau's "Nine Nations of North America (1981)" too, with his own twists. It's not a bad book. It's just not particularly original. The first section is pretty good. The end section (where he goes on a tirade about the "culture wars") is pure universalist ... even neocon ... drivel though.

Since this all came up in the context of recent events in American political realignment, you all may find this article from Scott Alexander (SlateStarCodex), written back before the first Trump Administration and ruminating on the modern cultural and political implications of Albion's Seed, of interest: https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/04/27/book-review-albions-seed/

Wood Guy, the Russian interference was "proven" by the Democrats, and these days I take everything with a large rock of salt. Moreover, are you going to say that all the tiktok videos coming out showing the destruction of the Middle East enabled by the US was also Russian propaganda? Lastly, is rampant inflation also Russian bot driven?

The Dems sat on their asses for 4 years, hastily replacing their candidate at the very end, and got what was coming for them. Please note, I am not doing a "I told you so", as I really wanted them to win. The next 4 years are going to be shit.

sameold, are you saying that if some things are russian propaganda, all things have to be russian propaganda? or are you trying to prove that the russian propaganda that happened in the US election isn't valid because unrelated social media may not also be russian propaganda? my suggestion would be to get your news from here or from donna and not twitter or tik tok.

Yeah have you heard of logical fallacies? Just because Democrats have been neoliberals for the last 30 years, don't really want change, and the DNC couldn't win a single-party race doesn't mean that Russia didn't also interfere in various ways.

*idea of voting to stop a*

If you go vote and cast an empty ballot as protest, I respect that. 

If you sit on your ass at home completely ignorant to what is happening, yeah, you are MAGA by default.

With all respect, it results in the same thing. If A = C and B=C then A=B.

I wonder if we can de-regulate building codes so stuff like this becomes more common.

The Democratic party has become the centrist party that represents the status quo. MAGA has shifted the Republican party far to the right, and the political left is mess of single-issue voters who can't compromise in a politically advantageous way. (By left/center/right I mean by traditional, global standards, not recent US standards.)

This is pretty damn accurate

I'm sorry they are near you, Odd, and I hate this for our country. I know some Black neighbors in my community are buying more guns and preparing for the worst.

I also observed after the election, Trump supporters have become more visibly aggressive, Ie; driving their trucks with large flags, MAGA and NRA slogans pasted on their cars, and parking their large cars taking more space than they need. The discreet support in the past turned into a belligerent display of their political preferences. One wrong move, they'll beat you up kind of look on their faces.

I now am concealed carrying when I leave the house. I keep access to locked long guns in my vehicle and several rooms in my home.

^Good, you never know when juicy venison could pop out of them bushes... but joking aside, this sucks balls. Maybe set up some loud speakers and blast some dead kennedys 24/7? Nazi punks fuck off would be a nice touch.

Odd, sorry for my assumption but a middle aged white dude does not have much to worry about in MAGA (or any other times)

.

sameolddoctor wrote:

"Odd, sorry for my assumption but a middle aged white dude does not have much to worry about in MAGA (or any other times)" - 

That has to be the single dumbest thing you've ever written here.

Not only are MAGA supporters a real physical threat to me but they threaten the entire country and everyone in it.  

I've been attacked, shot, stabbed, and beaten by MAGA supporters..  I have in the past, and will continue to stand up to bullies like this guy when they attempt to hurt other people. 

In addition - look up the 3%'ers.  This particular branch views anyone that disagrees with their views as 'tarators' and 'enemy combatants'. 

WG - I should start to carry around my recurve bow just in case I see some elk or deer.

The truest fact of life:
One has to give love to get love.
That is why they hate.
Everything else is camouflage.

They are failures at life and they know it.
Their hate has no bottom.

Odd, as I was reading your comment I was convinced you were copy pasting something written in the 1930s. No joke.

They have been emboldened but "those" neighbours have always been there - the vote count is proof. You just can't ignore it any longer because the polite veneer has been sanded off. These were always your neighbours, and I promise you have many more of them, too. It's a weird thing to say, but stay safe.

Oh, I'm aware of that bb. It's sad and very disturbing.  It's the main reason I own firearms other than for hunting. I wish I didn't need to but I do.

In a megalopolis, the racist extreme right is cautious because all their fears exist 24/7 in the dense city. They are vastly outnumbered by the immigrants they want to deport. And, where will the new government deport the millions of people? It works for them to keep this issue a flushing point as long as they can hold on to the power. In my interview with EOM sometime ago and brought up the issue of urban warfare at an exaggerated mass scale. He said this would never happen in this country. I don't know but I don't think I was too far off on my assumptions.

I am a brown person (and pretty vocal) but never have been beaten or stabbed by MAGA supporters when he was president, or ever. But as Orhan points out, it is probably cuz i live in a large coastal city?

I'm glad you've never been beaten, shot, or stabbed by MAGA supporters. I have. Like you I'm vocal about my opposition to Trump and Nazis. I don't think it's because of not living in a large coastal city. I've been physically harmed by MAGA and Nazis in Denver, NYC, Boston, Orlando, and LA. I suspect the difference us is that I when I see someone abusing another person I physically step in and stop it.

In LA? I've lived here for a while and through the last 4 years of Trump and never saw a MAGA person physically abusing anyone. Sure, there are those boisterous 40-truck rallies etc especially in the Inland Empire but no physical violence. I guess I am trying to say that not all dogs bite, they just bark and bark.

I'm glad you've never experienced this type of racial and political violence. It happens, a lot. I'm prepared for it. 

Look up the 3%ers group.  They make the KKK and the Proud Boys look like a church group.  

I don't visit m'erica much anymore, mostly because 75% is a hole I have no interest in.. but only once was I confronted by a racist MAGA type (this was before MAGA was a thing). This was in Cambridge... Some wanker nearly drove over the sidewalk to tell me "jews like me should be shot". I'm not jewish, not that that matters, but it was a strange experience.

First - I'm sorry you experienced that Non.  It angers me greatly.  

If you ever come back to the states I'll show you around the 'cool' wild places where the people are good.  

I've experienced situations like that. I unfortunately don't keep my mouth shut and have the ability and skills to back up my mouth. Hence the violence I've experienced.

Odd and Non, sorry for your experiences but I have to say its not my experience or many that i hang out with (a lot of minorities). Im more afraid of the LAPD than Trumpsters to be honest.

But LAPD has less fire power.

Odd, I’ve yet to see your part yet so it’s not on the black list.

I hate to sound like 'that guy' but . . . I hang out with a wide range of people from various ethnic, political, and religious backgrounds. All of them are afraid of MAGA supporters who belong to racist militias like the 3%ser. Even the ones who have voted for Trump feel this way.

LAPD are filled with punk ass mofos. LA County Sheriffs on the other hand, straight up Montanas.

b3ta - They sound like MAGA militia types.

Yes Odd, everyone is afraid of MAGA supporters cuz of their theatrics, but i dont think one needs to be concealed carry to deal with those spineless punks.

someolddoctor - I understand that you've never had to fight someone who was trying to actively harm or kill you. I'm glad that you haven't. I've just explained to you that I've been shot, stabbed, and beaten by MAGA / Nazis. You are free to not believe me. My personal experiences throughout my life with violence have been is vastly different than yours in this.

Have you looked up the 3% group yet? 

Kudos to you Odd, however this is like an addiction. People have to come to the realization themselves. No amount of facts will persuade them until it impacts them personally. You will keep trying because that is who you are.

I have come to the conclusion that this is about racism and misogyny. It is so systematicly ingrained in the culture that the only way forward is for this country to hit rock bottom. We have arrived at that point and I believe when he is sworn in there is going to be that moment of collective oh shit when he makes good on his promise of dictatorship.

So Odd, your answer is to concealed carry and keep guns in several rooms of your house? Isn't that rather MAGA-ish?

Noonehere, shhhh please.

I’m just waiting for the libs of Archinect to abandon trans people. It’s coming. As for the election, what were the policy differences between the two? Both love to genocide. Both wanted to build the wall. Both wanted to frack. Both paid fealty to cryptobros. Both have nothing to offer the poor and working class. So what then? Joy?

To name a few

Social Security
Medicare
Medicade
EPA
Vaccinations for measles polio and small pox
Food Stamps
Reducing childhood poverty by 40%
FDA
Obamacare
Abortion
Marriage Equality
Religious freedom
Rule of law

It is the cruelest of ironies that Israel would be communicating genocide and that the left would be instrumental in destroying a couple hundred years of progress.

How does it feel to be partly responsible in having prevented the greatest president this country would have had in being elected.

* commiting*

*commiting*

sameolddoctor wrote:

 "So Odd, your answer is to concealed carry and keep guns in several rooms of your house? Isn't that rather MAGA-ish? Noonehere, shhhh please. "

 Not really. It's unfortunately practical. 

The person I'm dealing with has dozens of firearms and thousands of rounds of ammo.  He's also on recorded zoom call saying that he 'can't wait to deal with those that are unamerican'.  In the same zoom call he talks about how to agitate people so you can legally shoot them.  There was also stuff in the zoom call about non whites not being human.

I'm not going near this guy or his family.  I'm not going to confront him. I will take precautions incase he tries anything.  

Have you looked up the 3% group yet sameold?

What would you do differently in my situation sameold? 

To clarify - I know about the firearms that my neighbor owns because he used to have a class 3 FLL. This allows him to legally own short barreled rifles / shotguns, high capacity magazines, and automatic weapons. The neighbor lost is FLL last year. At that time he had those firearms registered to him.

Odd that sounds dangerous, you need to move out.

I own my house. This neighbor is renting. I'm taking steps to protect people until the neighbor moves. in the four months he's lived here I never had any interactions with the neighbor. I will continue to avoid him. 

Even if I wanted to sell my house I'd be horrible, unethical, and cowardly person to allow another family to move in without disclosing what I know about the neighbor.  

Biden doubled the child poverty rate when he stopped giving a shit. Abortion? Obama had a veto proof majority in his first 6 months. None of the things you wrote about were discussed during the campaign. Stop talking already.

That's an interesting view b3ta. The increase in child poverty rate is attributed to the loss of pandemic related assistance and the child tax extension.  The data I've found points to an artificial reduction of the CPR in 20/21 due to the pandemic assistance.  It's still lower than it was nearly a decade ago.  

Child Poverty Rate in US. 

2013 - 19.9%

2018 - 16..2% 

2019 - 14.5% 

2020 - 9.7% 

2021 5.2%  Child Tax Extension expired and of 2021

2022 - 12.4% 

2023 - 13.4%

FYI:

Child Poverty Rate in US. 

2014 - 21.1%

2015 - 19.7%

2026 - 18.0%

2017 - 16.5%

Child Tax Extension began in 2020. 

Finally - if people want to discuss politics there is a thread for that.

On September 12, 2023, the U.S. Census Bureau reported that the United States saw a significant increase in child poverty, with 12.4 percent of children (nearly 9 million children) living in poverty in 2022 compared with 5.2% of children (3.8 million) in 2021.


This represents a more than doubling of child poverty in 2022 from 2021 — a record one-year increase and significant backtracking from progress made in 2021.

https://firstfocus.org/resource/child-poverty-2022/

In 2021, the Child Tax Credit alone lifted nearly 3 million children out of poverty. Due to the expiration of improvements made to the Child Tax Credit in the American Rescue Plan Act, in 2022 the Child Tax Credit still had an significant impact but only lifted half as many children — 1.4 million — out of poverty. Columbia University’s Center on Poverty and Social Policy finds that if the improvements to the Child Tax Credit continued in 2022, the child poverty rate would be over 4 percentage points lower, sparing 3 million children from experiencing poverty.

https://www.clasp.org/press-room/press-releases/child-poverty-more-than-doubled-in-2022-underscoring-need-for-better-policy/

So, if I'm reading your take correctly, the solution that reduced child poverty by 40% was good, but eliminating didn't hurt so bad, because, checks notes, fewer children than 10 years ago are going hungry? I'm sure that truth was filling the bellies.

b3tadine[sutures]

Not at all. 

The extension of the child tax credit did great things. Ending it sucked. I don't agree with it being ended. 

 As for the rest of your comments- you're being flippant and insincere.  By your logic you didn't care about the poor kids pre 2021. 

You're acting like a dishonest, petulant child throwing a temper tantrum. You've been acting like this for quite some time.  I was hoping you'd stop acting like this but alas you haven't

Feel free to go on acting like this but I will no longer be engaging with you.  

 Goodbye.

Oh, no, I’ve lost Chad, my blue MAGA friend. What am I to do.

We're going to be neighbors!

I listened to the Marah cd you made me a couple of weeks ago!

Old school 3D printing! Cool!

Ehhhhrmerguuud cute puppy alert.

Awww. We lost our Hedy about 8 weeks ago. I miss her so much, she was such a snuggler. Pups are the best.

I regularly wish for the evolution of dogs to live longer and longer. Hi Hedy, how's the rainbowland? You've got to spend more time with Donna!