To the amateur eye it can be puzzling, but with some education about its juxtaposition of traditional design against more complex forms, its status as a groundbreaking residential design becomes clear.
— Realtor.com
Volunteer, I think the joke is on us. Shoemuncher reminds me of Venturi, the very first thing he does is dismiss politics and by association economics, the driving force behind everything in this society. That Vegas was the focus is all the more absurd - look at it now.
I'm about 2 minutes away from posting about 10 or so pages of commentary on Venturi
Promises, promises. LOL Probably a lot easier for you to cut and paste some shit you find on the net than to formulate an intelligent thought.
Donna, Unfortunately yes for Philadelphia and New Haven. On my last trip to New Haven, on a Saturday morning in the downtown area next to the large green where I was shopping for a wedding gift, I was jostled and harassed by a group of urban youths. They seemed surprised when I fought back and they ran away. And I have been to Las Vegas on business (I don't gamble). Las Vegas has some very elegant, modern minimalist homes with superb desert landscaping. It, and the surrounding cities are not the Yahooville Venturi tries to paint.
Time is an important context - when Venturi was in Vegas it was Yahooville. Critical observations on architecture and landscape there would be completely different now. Observations on culture, not so much.
"Jeeves, this is my favorite line from Voluntear's post:
"At least the people in Las Vegas can and do walk the streets of their city at night."
Hee, hee, he thinks people walk in Vegas. Mediocrity indeed. As Venturi et al pointed out, among others, Vegas is a car oriented environment. I mean, when someone walks out of a casino bleary eyed just having lost half his life savings, the only walking he'll do is to his/her car, Vegas having little or no public trans. He/she will then be in the most danger a person is in anytime of the day or night: in a vehicle. His almost assault anecdote aside (that can happen anywhere, including Vegas), Voluntear - and anyone else - has a 1 in 272 lifetime odds of dying in a car accident; odds of dying while walking are 1 in 623. Ah, but in an eastern city you'll get shot in the street, right?: lifetime odds of dying by firearm are 1 in 300, and then you can factor in that in most cities firearm deaths happen mostly in a few areas of the city, and very often death by firearm is caused by someone the person knows, whereas death in a car can happen whenever you're inside of one. You know, Jeeves, I think I'll keep walking around Philly and New Haven and stay out of Vegas. "
"Correction, Jeeves, these statistics here say that lifetime odds of death by motor vehicles accident is actually 1 in 100 (that must be all motorized vehicles combined, not just cars). Oh, look, intentional self-harm is 1 in 121; assault by firearm is listed here as 1 in 325. For air travel it's 1 in 20,000...I think I'll take many plane trips to interesting cities where you can walk around."
"Btw, J., those statistics are for people in the USA; if you go to many other countries, the odds of being killed by a firearm go way down (unless, of course, you go to a country at war)."
learning from las vegas is a great book, even if you disagree with it. and if you disagree with it, its a great way to sharpen your teeth by articulating what and how you disagree.
I did a research on Venturi House for Los Angeles Trade Technical College Architecture History II course 131 (ArchHist131 II). The house is still intact, holding long years of stable foundation, no mildew or damage done to the base floors, exterior walls surrounding the house. Robert Venturi invented something solid and practical for human dwelling with futuristic endeavors during that period. A lot of value into this gallery house for future research, applications, and modeling for neighboring surburanites and housing concepts which reflect modernism.... A reinvestment for a lot of compost funds of $$$ can be put it into meaningful purpose.
quondam.com, Another source for Venturi and Scott Brown's use of checkerboard ornament on their Lewis Thomas lab, may well be the Tudor Gothic as well. For example, here's link to the 16th century Hall Place, Bexley, London, which features exterior checkerboard masonry (this mansion also has a later, Georgian addition). Considering that so much of Princeton U's architecture is Collegiate Gothic (although not necessarily Tudor Gothic) this may explain VSB's design rationale here (see link, and wait for slide-show of exterior).
Also, an obvious source for VSB's use of alternating black and white treads for the entry stair of their Brant House in Connecticut, would be the stair at Edwin Lutyen's Gledstone Hall, North Yorkshire. Venturi wrote about the two-tone staircase in Complexity and Contradiction inArchitecture (illustration 57). As Venturi pointed out, the dark dado of the hallway becomes an extension of the stair riser "in the same room." See link:
quondam.com, I'd be surprised if Lutyens didn't know his British architectural history backward and forwards (and European architecture as well). Otherwise, he'd just be a Beaux-Arts revivalist type (and even this latter group understood references and invention, but, could not carry it out on his level). But this is research for another day: what did Lutyens know, what was his library like, etc.
quondam, i was looking more closely at this house today, and found myself thinking about Hejduk, and his work, then I saw some interesting presentations on the plans Texas Houses, and the early plan iterations of this house, then bounced over to your site, and saw some more connections between the architect's work. This house really is a lovely specimen.
Fun with Jeeves aside (and everyone knows the very competent valet from P.G. Wodehouse’s humorous short stories...well, almost everyone.)
As far as Lutyens’ checkerboard at Page Street Apartments, it’s not just related to his looking at patterns in other architecture but also speaks to Lutyens’ love of contrast, particularly black and white, which is tied to his interior schemes, including the Gledstone Hall stairs. He used black contrasted to white frequently in his interiors. I had read a detailed account in a large Lutyens volume, I think, but was probably a library borrowing which I can’t pin-point; I did find a shorter blurb in the Architectural Monographs “Edwin Lutyens” Peter Inskip (Academy Editions, 1979, 1986) on pgs. 26-27:
"Lutyens’ use of contrast was commensurate with his frequent use of black in decoration. He believed that mouldings should be painted white so that light could bring out the detail and set off by black coves, as at Whalton. Occasionally a slight ambiguity is established through the use of black; it is difficult to ascertain the exact relationship of the dome to its cornice in the vestibule at The Salutation. The use of black led to ‘great dignity in decoration’ and was ‘conductive to magnificence’.
At 29, Bloomsbury Square his own drawing room had black walls with white woodwork.....At Folly Farm, Venetian red balconies introduced a minor incidence of color to the hall with its matt-black walls....
However, Lutyens’ preference for ‘bareness and whiteness’ and his avoidance of applied pattern prevailed at Gledstone where a white scheme was highlighted by bands of black in the picture rail, dado, and skirting which run throughout the ground floor. The alternating black and white marble threads of the staircase, that look so good but can prove so lethal, while continuing the dado rail across the stair were contained under the black cove of the ceiling above."
(Interesting comment of the danger of the black/white stair; sounds like he’s speaking from experience).
Lutyens applied the light/dark contrast as a kind of pattern on the exterior before the obvious pattern at Page Street, particularly at Nashdom, where the green shutters and dark holes of the windows contrast with the white brick.
As an aside, Lutyens designed the British Embassy building in Washington D.C. – begun 1911, completed 1941 (his only building in the US? not sure). I have not visited, but this website is interesting and the first note at bottom talks about his use of contrast there, including the slate paving on the great portico floor.
Was just reminded by leafing through my copy of C&C that V. shows a photo of another striking Lutyens patterned floor, the entrance gallery at Middleton Park (pg. 24); not because of the pattern, though, rather he comments that the directional space of the gallery ends in a blank wall. Lutyens did indeed have a nice hand for patterns.
135 Comments
Volunteer, I think the joke is on us. Shoemuncher reminds me of Venturi, the very first thing he does is dismiss politics and by association economics, the driving force behind everything in this society. That Vegas was the focus is all the more absurd - look at it now.
I'm about 2 minutes away from posting about 10 or so pages of commentary on Venturi
Promises, promises. LOL Probably a lot easier for you to cut and paste some shit you find on the net than to formulate an intelligent thought.
Volunteer, have you been to Philly or New Haven in the last 20 years? Have you been to Vegas?
"Hey, Jeeves, look at me, I'm writing criticism:
"Venturi steals candy from little kids...true story."
"Philadelphia and New Haven wear army boots..."
Pure genius! Quick, call the publisher, I'm writing a book."
"formulate an intelligent thought" that from someone who's never tried it.
Donna, Unfortunately yes for Philadelphia and New Haven. On my last trip to New Haven, on a Saturday morning in the downtown area next to the large green where I was shopping for a wedding gift, I was jostled and harassed by a group of urban youths. They seemed surprised when I fought back and they ran away. And I have been to Las Vegas on business (I don't gamble). Las Vegas has some very elegant, modern minimalist homes with superb desert landscaping. It, and the surrounding cities are not the Yahooville Venturi tries to paint.
Time is an important context - when Venturi was in Vegas it was Yahooville. Critical observations on architecture and landscape there would be completely different now. Observations on culture, not so much.
"Jeeves, this is my favorite line from Voluntear's post:
"At least the people in Las Vegas can and do walk the streets of their city at night."
Hee, hee, he thinks people walk in Vegas. Mediocrity indeed. As Venturi et al pointed out, among others, Vegas is a car oriented environment. I mean, when someone walks out of a casino bleary eyed just having lost half his life savings, the only walking he'll do is to his/her car, Vegas having little or no public trans. He/she will then be in the most danger a person is in anytime of the day or night: in a vehicle. His almost assault anecdote aside (that can happen anywhere, including Vegas), Voluntear - and anyone else - has a 1 in 272 lifetime odds of dying in a car accident; odds of dying while walking are 1 in 623. Ah, but in an eastern city you'll get shot in the street, right?: lifetime odds of dying by firearm are 1 in 300, and then you can factor in that in most cities firearm deaths happen mostly in a few areas of the city, and very often death by firearm is caused by someone the person knows, whereas death in a car can happen whenever you're inside of one. You know, Jeeves, I think I'll keep walking around Philly and New Haven and stay out of Vegas. "
"Correction, Jeeves, these statistics here say that lifetime odds of death by motor vehicles accident is actually 1 in 100 (that must be all motorized vehicles combined, not just cars). Oh, look, intentional self-harm is 1 in 121; assault by firearm is listed here as 1 in 325. For air travel it's 1 in 20,000...I think I'll take many plane trips to interesting cities where you can walk around."
"Btw, J., those statistics are for people in the USA; if you go to many other countries, the odds of being killed by a firearm go way down (unless, of course, you go to a country at war)."
Just in New Haven, love Yale, but have to agree... scary place when the sun goes down, usually doesn't bother me, but it did in New Haven, too bad.
^ Try Bridgeport.
this place is getting weirder and weirder.
learning from las vegas is a great book, even if you disagree with it. and if you disagree with it, its a great way to sharpen your teeth by articulating what and how you disagree.
i think im gonna name my band Urban Youth.
^ Miles, Bridgeport is where we stayed, you can feel safe there for $400/night....love their interpretation of suburbia.
q., maybe they could also do a cover of this:
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line, the men come and take you away
so? who's got the biggest?
Venturi, of course, for playing the ultimate joke on you.
Mt. Everest.....the mountain with the biggest tits in the world.....
M. Python
I did a research on Venturi House for Los Angeles Trade Technical College Architecture History II course 131 (ArchHist131 II). The house is still intact, holding long years of stable foundation, no mildew or damage done to the base floors, exterior walls surrounding the house. Robert Venturi invented something solid and practical for human dwelling with futuristic endeavors during that period. A lot of value into this gallery house for future research, applications, and modeling for neighboring surburanites and housing concepts which reflect modernism.... A reinvestment for a lot of compost funds of $$$ can be put it into meaningful purpose.
quondam.com, Another source for Venturi and Scott Brown's use of checkerboard ornament on their Lewis Thomas lab, may well be the Tudor Gothic as well. For example, here's link to the 16th century Hall Place, Bexley, London, which features exterior checkerboard masonry (this mansion also has a later, Georgian addition). Considering that so much of Princeton U's architecture is Collegiate Gothic (although not necessarily Tudor Gothic) this may explain VSB's design rationale here (see link, and wait for slide-show of exterior).
http://www.bexleyheritagetrust.org.uk/hallplace/
Also, an obvious source for VSB's use of alternating black and white treads for the entry stair of their Brant House in Connecticut, would be the stair at Edwin Lutyen's Gledstone Hall, North Yorkshire. Venturi wrote about the two-tone staircase in Complexity and Contradiction in Architecture (illustration 57). As Venturi pointed out, the dark dado of the hallway becomes an extension of the stair riser "in the same room." See link:
ttps://www.pinterest.com/pin/424182858622452662/
And see:
http://www.countrylifeimages.co.uk/Image.aspx?id=ba4a8d68-26a0-4ab3-937f-3db49570f9fa&rd=2%7CGledstone%7C%7C1%7C20%7C53%7C150
who the fuck is jeeves?
He's the ventriloquist, DK is the dummy.
....and Kilometers is the toilet attendant in the theater.
quondam.com, I'd be surprised if Lutyens didn't know his British architectural history backward and forwards (and European architecture as well). Otherwise, he'd just be a Beaux-Arts revivalist type (and even this latter group understood references and invention, but, could not carry it out on his level). But this is research for another day: what did Lutyens know, what was his library like, etc.
quondam, i was looking more closely at this house today, and found myself thinking about Hejduk, and his work, then I saw some interesting presentations on the plans Texas Houses, and the early plan iterations of this house, then bounced over to your site, and saw some more connections between the architect's work. This house really is a lovely specimen.
I love getting a second chance to see things.
i thought Piles was much funnier than Kilometer.
I wanted to ask DSM about the connections between the "Philly School" and the New York 5, alas, did not get a chance.
Fun with Jeeves aside (and everyone knows the very competent valet from P.G. Wodehouse’s humorous short stories...well, almost everyone.)
As far as Lutyens’ checkerboard at Page Street Apartments, it’s not just related to his looking at patterns in other architecture but also speaks to Lutyens’ love of contrast, particularly black and white, which is tied to his interior schemes, including the Gledstone Hall stairs. He used black contrasted to white frequently in his interiors. I had read a detailed account in a large Lutyens volume, I think, but was probably a library borrowing which I can’t pin-point; I did find a shorter blurb in the Architectural Monographs “Edwin Lutyens” Peter Inskip (Academy Editions, 1979, 1986) on pgs. 26-27:
"Lutyens’ use of contrast was commensurate with his frequent use of black in decoration. He believed that mouldings should be painted white so that light could bring out the detail and set off by black coves, as at Whalton. Occasionally a slight ambiguity is established through the use of black; it is difficult to ascertain the exact relationship of the dome to its cornice in the vestibule at The Salutation. The use of black led to ‘great dignity in decoration’ and was ‘conductive to magnificence’.
At 29, Bloomsbury Square his own drawing room had black walls with white woodwork.....At Folly Farm, Venetian red balconies introduced a minor incidence of color to the hall with its matt-black walls....
However, Lutyens’ preference for ‘bareness and whiteness’ and his avoidance of applied pattern prevailed at Gledstone where a white scheme was highlighted by bands of black in the picture rail, dado, and skirting which run throughout the ground floor. The alternating black and white marble threads of the staircase, that look so good but can prove so lethal, while continuing the dado rail across the stair were contained under the black cove of the ceiling above."
(Interesting comment of the danger of the black/white stair; sounds like he’s speaking from experience).
Lutyens applied the light/dark contrast as a kind of pattern on the exterior before the obvious pattern at Page Street, particularly at Nashdom, where the green shutters and dark holes of the windows contrast with the white brick.
As an aside, Lutyens designed the British Embassy building in Washington D.C. – begun 1911, completed 1941 (his only building in the US? not sure). I have not visited, but this website is interesting and the first note at bottom talks about his use of contrast there, including the slate paving on the great portico floor.
I'm wondering now whether Venturi ever visited the British Embassy....
I think maybe he did...
Yes, Lutyens' only building in the US.
Thanks, q. Yep, would be surprised if he didn't have good reference material on him.
Classic, or is that PoMo?
Was just reminded by leafing through my copy of C&C that V. shows a photo of another striking Lutyens patterned floor, the entrance gallery at Middleton Park (pg. 24); not because of the pattern, though, rather he comments that the directional space of the gallery ends in a blank wall. Lutyens did indeed have a nice hand for patterns.
quondam, I actually meant DSB, iphone.
Who should own The Vanna Venturi House? http://www.blouinartinfo.com/news/story/1205518/who-should-own-the-vanna-venturi-house
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