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Politics Central

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x-jla

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hohb_gOI0dQ


Top 10 favorite movie of all time.  I think sometimes people don’t hear each other in general.  They read and listen but don’t “hear” what they are really saying.  

Jan 10, 21 12:33 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

...

Jan 10, 21 1:34 pm  · 
4  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

First

 · 
Non Sequitur

confused third.

2  · 
archi_dude

Had a Trump supporter rally yesterday in the hood and antifa showed up. Pretty entertaining to watch the helicopter footage. The trump side had 4 cycle cops in front of some people waving flags. The antifa side had 50 cops in riot gear and the road was littered with broken bottles and projectiles they were hurling. Pretty obvious who the agitators were. Was watching the news right now "violent trump supporters" and every clip was antifa....

Jan 10, 21 8:15 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

Cool story bro. You make that up yourself or steal it from parler?

4  · 
tduds

lol

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Let me know when antifa plans on hanging government leaders will ya!?

 · 
proto

“Antifa: renting space in “conservatives’ ” heads since 2017”

1  · 
x-jla

“ NARRATIVE
QAnon is a growing dangerous movement that is demonizing innocent people, unlike the non-existent Antifa non-movement which, if it were real, would only be fighting back against Nazis, which are real, even though Antifa once again is not but should be.”.
——Micheal Malice

 · 
x-jla

Imagine how annoyed libs would be if the media was calling the DC riot “mostly peaceful”.

 · 
tduds

I, for one, would be upset about lies. Not sure why you wouldn't.

 · 
x-jla

Me too. As I was when the media did that during the riots this past year. Why weren’t you upset then? I’ve been constantly against riots then and now. Those who are only now upset are engaged in selective outrage

 · 
tduds

" The vast majority of Black Lives Matter protests—more than 93%—have been peaceful, according to a new report published Thursday by a nonprofit that researches political violence and protests across the world." https://time.com/5886348/report-peaceful-protests/

1  · 
tduds

Stop pretending these things are similar. They are not similar. Just because you disagree with both sides doesn't mean they're of equal magnitude. And, like I said above, drawing false equivalence between the two sides gives cover to the more violent side. This is why people are accusing you of being on that side, because you're minimizing their impact with your dumb rhetoric.

 · 
x-jla

Has anyone quantified the riots to compare? They are both incorrect ways to engage in social and political change. “Equal” is a bs term. Similar, yes. I can agree with things and disagree with tactics. I agree that police should not shoot innocent people. I disagree that torching a city block and endangering fellow neighbors is a way to achieve that. “Impact” is shortsighted. Short term changes are not worth the long term problems of normalizing violence. I can’t believe unequivocally condemning violence as a mode of political change is controversial in 2021. This would have been a completely mainstream thing to say 10 or 20 years ago.

 · 
tduds

"I disagree that torching a city block and endangering fellow neighbors is a way to achieve that." Good thing that isn't really happening, then.

1  · 
tduds

"I can’t believe unequivocally condemning violence as a mode of political change is controversial in 2021." 

Man you're really missing the point here.

1  · 
tduds

Calling the DC riot “mostly peaceful” would be untrue. Calling BLM protests "mostly peaceful" would be true. You're grasping at outliers while ignoring the median.

1  · 
x-jla

Tduds, are you really gas lighting rn...did you forget the thousands of buildings burnt down? I know it’s an inconvenient reality, but it happened.

 · 
x-jla

93% of people were not engaged in violence or rioting according to your source. Ok. What % of the trump protesters were engaged in violence? Certainly doesn’t seem to be more than 5-10% just looking at the pictures.

 ·  1
tduds

93% of *the events* not 93% of the people.

 · 
x-jla

You are really missing the point. Violence is not a legitimate way to move the dial of politics. It’s regressive and will always lead to more authoritarianism in the long run.

 ·  1
tduds

You're grasping at outliers while ignoring the median.

 · 
tduds

.

2  · 
x-jla

Lol. Well yeah if you cherry pick the Starbucks from the pile of other things like the arson and take over of police stations, court houses, city blocks, etc. And, I completely disagree that it’s morally worse to invade the capitol building than a regular persons mom pop shop that they depend on for income and survival. The govt buildings are technically ours. Some poor bastards bar is not.

 · 
x-jla

The capitol building attack was a different type of riot for sure, but any attempt to sugar coat the past years riots is silly and obvious. Why can’t both sides be wrong in your universe?

 · 
tduds

I've already answered that question for you more times than I care to and I will not answer it again.

1  · 
x-jla

Person A punches a toddler, person B punches an old person, person A did a kind of worse thing therefore punching old people is ok or something because at least they aren’t punching toddlers.

 · 
tduds

Do you have short term memory problems or something?

1  · 
tduds

Person A punches their abuser. Person B is the abuser. These are the same because they both are "violent"

1  · 
tduds

Person A punches a toddler, person B punches an old person. jla constantly interrupts Person A's trial to whine about Person B, even though Person B is on trial elsewhere.

3  · 

I don't even know what this is in response to, but I'm giving it a thumbs up

1  · 
x-jla

They both believe that they are fighting their abusers. This is why we can’t have special rules that depend on one’s perspective. We need to have standards that apply to everyone. Why is this concept so difficult?!?!

 · 
tduds

"They both believe that they are fighting their abusers" and one of them is wrong. That's what I've been saying this whole time.

1  · 
x-jla

No, both are right. The establishment has abused the working and middle class people. The cops have abused the people. They are also both wrong. The Dems are not their friends. The Trumps and republicans are not their friend.

 · 
archi_dude

All summer long - "we need to defund cops, end the use of tear gas on protestors, rubber bullets and let repeat offenders out and focus on rehabilitation."


Capital Riot


Same People - "how were people able to just waltz into the capital so easily!? Racism definitely racism"


Facepalm.....

Jan 11, 21 8:58 am  · 
1  ·  3
Non Sequitur

If only it was that simplistic, then all the dumb fucks claiming this could finally claim to understand something for once. Fortunately, it’s not and the dumb fucks remain as such.

3  · 
x-jla

“Defund the capital police and replace them with social workers”

 · 
square.

i think your point is incredibly stupid and illogical, but i actually think "defund the police" was a terrible slogan, from a political standpoint. i understand where its coming from and its motivations, but i think it's pretty clear that the results from using it have been flawed at best.

5  · 
Non Sequitur

I'd rather see a defund the military slogan. That would make for more entertaining "discussions".

1  · 
x-jla

Defund the whole government.

 · 
Wood Guy

"Defund the police" was a terrible slogan. The left has consistently terrible slogans. The right is better at coming up with slogans and marketing in general. I tried to discuss with progressive friends that "defund" was not going to get us there but was soundly--what's the word the right like to use? Oh yeah, cancelled.

4  · 
x-jla

The left and the right are 2 rival mafia families fighting for control. The people are the dummies lining up when gotti hands out free turkeys on thanksgiving thinking that the mob is engaged in a community service.

 · 
Wood Guy

They are two of the factions fighting for control. Except "the left" are mostly in the middle, "the right" is mostly far-right. The actual left, the progressives, are too meek and too worried about their special issue vs. seeing the big picture to have a seat at the table (despite right-wing talking heads saying otherwise).

Meanwhile anarchists dream about all of this going away, I guess so we can go back to sitting on cave floors? ;-)

 · 
Non Sequitur

serious question warning (from someone who understands jack-shit about your politics), would there be this hard distinction of left vs right if your country was not limited to 2(real) parties?

 · 
square.

agreed wood guy. i consider myself pretty left, but i can see the folly in defund the police. it's a mistake to think that telling communities, which have experienced real crime for decades, that you are going to take something away from them will sit well. it's too "negative" of a slogan.

good question ns.. our "left" is really more center left (bernie would be considered this in europe, for example, while mainstream democrats are essentially coporatist centrists), while like wood guy said our right is completely unhinged and off the rails. i personally would love to see a labor party, where you might see more nuance. but like others have said elswhere it's impossible without a parliamentary system.

2  · 
Wood Guy

Non, I think the 2-party system definitely contributes to the current strife. It sets up an us vs. them dynamic, and is way too much like sports, especially for those who are not concerned about the details but just want their team to win (at all costs). I often dream about having (or starting) a party for those with common sense.

1  · 
x-jla

Every American politician that actually gets elected, “left” or “right” , is just an inch south and and inch left of Pinochet

 · 
x-jla

Trump maybe 3/4”

 · 
square.

is this what politics central... could be?

2  · 
SneakyPete

Our two-party system is not mandated. It is an inevitable consequence of any first-past-the-post system.

1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

archi-dude = dumb, definitely dumb.

2  · 
square.

another interesting point i heard on "defund;" it's also negative in the sense that it operates in an austerity politics framework. instead of talking about cutting budgets, which has been the economic paradigm for several decades, progressives should be talking about where funding can be increased.

2  · 
x-jla

Clearly the answer is funding for gender studies in Pakistan

 · 
x-jla

Problem is square, that increasing funding for a corrupt state is literally the best way of continuing the status quo. Defunding police is a good idea actually. I can’t stand the shallow sloganeering of it, but less police means that police will focus on more serious crime. Less police interactions for bs crimes like selling loose cigs = less chances of one of those interactions going wrong.

 · 
x-jla

The more police, the more time they have to bust balls for petty crimes. Let them focus on real crimes that have real victims imo.

 · 
x-jla

“Defund” is a terrible choice of words though, and the anytime an idea turns into a slogan and gets burped through a mega phone by a mob it automatically becomes stupid.

 · 
tduds

Bad slogan, good concept.

2  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

The slogan got ahead of the plan, and that really can't work.

3  · 
BabbleBeautiful

+1 b3tadine[sutures]

 · 
x-jla

funny how Twitter didn’t remove a tweet by a CCP official that was portraying genocide of the Uighurs...https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/International/chinese-embassy-tweet-uighurs-birth-rate-draws-instant/story%3fid=75118569

Jan 11, 21 9:40 am  · 
 · 
x-jla

Forget attempted coups by assholes dressed up like Vikings. The real coup is happening by China.

 · 
randomised

"Forget attempted coups by assholes dressed up like Vikings."

"And now let’s be clear about what did not take place at the Capitol Building last night. This was not a fascist coup, as so many shrill, supposedly liberal commentators are claiming. Their flagrant use of the word ‘fascist’ to describe every political movement they disapprove of is an insult to reason and history. This wasn’t a coup full stop." https://www.spiked-online.com/...

But yes, China, that's genocide and mass rape, repopulation and what have you...

And indeed "funny" how Twitter gives a platform to China but silences Trump c.s.

 · 
x-jla

“ And it wasn’t an insurrection, either, as Joe Biden and others are calling it. Except perhaps a pantomime insurrection, a cosplay revolt, a more heated version of those history aficionados who spend their weekends dressed up as soldiers of the American Revolution or the American Civil War.”. Absolutely correct. That’s exactly what I was saying earlier in this thread. Much of the unrest we are seeing from both sides is a sort of “cosplay.”

 · 
x-jla

Great read.

1  · 

Unicor's Cheap Prison Labor Will Help Rebuild the Capitol (jezebel.com)

OK I don't believe *everything* I read on leftish websites, but I don't have any difficulty at all believing this to be true: rioters destroy furniture in the capitol, entity with federal contract  repairs/replaces furniture using a "cost-effective labor pool" aka prisoners at near-slave wages.

This country just sucks. It sucks.


Jan 11, 21 11:45 am  · 
2  · 
x-jla

For profit Prison labor is definitely something that should be illegal. How does this not violate labor laws.

 · 

Capitalism at its finest. Hide the real costs by exploiting others.

3  ·  1
x-jla

Sounds more like micro-communism

 · 
tduds

No it doesn't.

 · 
x-jla

If one can imagine that prison as a micro state, it’s certainly operates like a communist economy.

 · 
tduds

No it doesn't.

1  · 
x-jla

Yes it does. Exactly

 ·  1
tduds

Profit is extracted. Not communist.

 · 
x-jla

Communist countries do extract profit. The profit is state property. Dear leader Kim’s living large as did every other communist leader and inner circle of govt goons

 · 
tduds

lol you think that shit's exclusive to communism? Come on.

 · 
tduds

Anyway abolish prison labor. I think we can all agree on that.

1  · 

I'm more in favor of prison labor than I am against it. However, the fine print is that the prison labor should have the same workplace protections as non-incarcerated workers, including minimum wage. 

As a kid I watched, and got to know some of, the prison laborers building my town's skate park. Those guys were happy to be out doing something rather than sitting around a cell doing nothing. They were almost all at the end of their sentences and it was somewhat of a privilege or a reward for good behavior to be able to be out in the world working. I think it can also be helpful in transitioning to life outside prison. There is a lot more that needs to be reformed in our prison system ... this is just one part of it, and not even the full breadth of what I'd like to see changed with regard to prison labor.

2  · 
tduds

Great points. 

Abolish the part of the 13th Amendment that allows prison slavery.

4  · 

I forget sometimes that the abolishment of slavery actually codifies slavery to be allowed for criminal punishment. We really are a messed up country.

2  · 
apscoradiales

Standing on the sidelines, and thinking out loud. This is not as dangerous to American "democracy" as protests against Vietnam War were back in the sixties. Remember that? Or are most people here to young to recall that? '60's shaped America - and the rest of the World - for many years, and still do today.


Jan 11, 21 12:01 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

you sure about that?

 · 
apscoradiales

Pretty sure. Every once in a while when we enter some crisis, we think, oh boy, this is the worst it has ever been. The World is coming to an end! Rather selfish on our part.

No, it is not. Called life - shit happens every so often.

Spring is coming up, and we're a little bit closer to the end of this BS virus. I don't see a horde of Mongols riding across the Bering Straight. Think positive.

 · 
square.

i won't argue with the fact that the 60's shaped america- the self-indulgent, individualized "revolution" produced short-lived hippies, ripe for the coming reganism, who have inhibited any possible collective effort to combat our biggest existential threat, climate change. spring is certainly coming, though it will be warmer than the last spring, just like the spring before it.

i'm hopeful this "consensus" is being dismantled before our eyes.

 · 
SneakyPete

If you're suggesting that there is a risk of this nascent movement might devolve into the sort of Boomer selfishness the 60s did, sure. But being a Pollyanna is helping nobody.

 · 
x-jla

It’s like the 60’s except the music sucks and the people are uptight.

 · 
square.

no, just talking about the 60s. the only thing this "movement" has done, along with the appeasement of trump in general, is to expose reganism and trickle-down economics for what it really is: complete bullshit.

 · 
x-jla

If you made more than 1800$ this year (1200$ + 600) then it works better than the alternative

 · 
randomised

"60's shaped America - and the rest of the World - for many years, and still do today."

The same pacifists that were protesting against the Vietnam war were/are ridiculing Trump for avoiding being sent to an illegal war to kill innocent civilians. I would argue it didn't shape the world as much as it did distort it!

 · 
tduds

"Change the system but in the meantime at least hold everyone within the system to a similar standard" is not a contradiction. That the rich were able to use their money and influence to cheat the system, while the poor were not, is just one of the gross injustices of the Vietnam War (and Iraq, and Afghanistan, and...)

1  · 
SneakyPete

"The same pacifists that were protesting against the Vietnam war were/are ridiculing Trump for avoiding being sent to an illegal war to kill innocent civilians. "

Yeah, that checks out. They are against war and they are angered by the actions of a man -who dodged the draft- running under and being elected by the party which is pro-war. This is hypocrisy, but not the hypocrisy you are trying to claim. 

 · 
x-jla

yeah, no bias.  why is this on Twitter?  Why are we subsidizing these fascist tech oligarchs?  Time for supporters of free speech to boycott these weasels.  


Jan 11, 21 12:12 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Wild how they *did* replace RBG and no one burned anything down. Come on, man.

1  · 
x-jla

They must have ran out of steam after 9 months of rioting.

 ·  2
curtkram

there is still the option of adding supreme court justices to bring balance back

 · 
x-jla

That would be a very bad political move.

 · 
SneakyPete

Watered down impeachment articles? OF COURSE!

Demands for unity by the offending party? OF COURSE!

A president elected by righteous anger and justified rage who will inevitably prove feckless and easy to manipulate into losing the majority in two years? OF COURSE!

Jan 11, 21 2:28 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

If Democrats treated Republicans the way Republicans treat Democrats, there wouldn't be any Republicans left.

2  · 
x-jla

If people treated each other like people rather than political opponents maybe we would actually make things better.

 · 
tduds

Just to clarify I wasn't saying they *should*, just pointing out the difference.

 · 
square.

i hate being forced to be a part of the democratic party

4  · 

I hate being forced into any false binary just to feel like my voice has any effect.

3  · 
tduds

I imagine most of us on the left here would identify as 'DINOs'. I'm nominally a Democratic Party member but only so I can vote in primary elections. The first Tuesday in November is not where my politics begin or end, and voting is perhaps the least influential political act I make all year.

1  · 

If Republicans treated other Republicans the way Democrats treat other Democrats, there wouldn't be any Republicans left. 

Trump is going to give Jim Jordan the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Schumer told Franken to resign or be censured.

1  · 
randomised

Can you be a member of both Republican and the Democratic Party? Would be great to be able to vote for a candidate in a primary of the party you'd not even consider voting for in the real election. Just to get the other party more aligned with your own views...A bit like Russia's Alexei Navalny's Smart Voting tactic against Putin's dominant United Russia.

 · 

Some states have open primaries in which you do not have to be a member of the party in order to participate. There's usually some crossing of people into the Democratic primaries when it's a Republican incumbent, or vice versa ... but it's usually not sufficient to make that much of a difference. I could be wrong on that last part though. I haven't done much research into it.

 · 
SneakyPete

Switching is annoying, means you get on a bunch of lists for mailers you don't want. and also means that if you ever choose to run for office you have a mixed history open to the public to see.

 · 
Wood Guy

I'm a registered Independent, and get mailers for both D's and R's. I was briefly registered as a Green Independent, currently the most viable third party, which is not saying much.

 · 
tduds

EA - I believe that even in states with open primaries you can only vote in one of the primaries.

 · 

tduds, I'm fairly certain that is correct. I could have made that more clear in my earlier response.

As an example, I went to the first state listed in the Wikipedia article I posted earlier ... Alabama. They do not allow you to participate in both primaries. You have to choose one.

 · 
randomised

thanks all for clearing that up about primaries...

 · 
tduds

It's a very dumb system we have. We could easily change it but some people like to pretend its holy.

1  · 

"If Democrats treated Republicans the way Republicans treat Democrats, there wouldn't be any Republicans left."

I want to dive into this and see where it leads. Give us specific scenarios. It will mostly be exaggeration and speculation, but I'm in need of a bit of catharsis at the moment.

Jan 11, 21 5:15 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

Think of the heads that would have rolled had Robert Muller been given the broad and unchecked investigative mandate given to Ken Starr. Or if, say, Rahm Emmanuel was appointed instead of Muller.

 · 
tduds

When it became necessary to appoint a special counsel to investigate President Trump, in order to avoid accusations of political favoritism, a Republican was appointed. And when it became necessary to appoint a special counsel to investigate President Clinton, in order to avoid accusations of political favoritism, a Republican was appointed.

4  · 
tduds

There's a good quip that's been going around: It's like the Republicans & the Democrats were playing chess, and the Republicans flipped the table and set the house on fire. And the Democrats are still trying to figure out how to win the chess game. 

The implicit thru-line of the contemporary GOP since at least Gingrich is that the Democratic Party has no right to govern, and they will break whatever rules necessary - up to and including undermining the democratic process itself - in order to prevent the Democrats from doing anything. The Democrats, meanwhile, are trying to fix the system with "resolutions" and appeals to "civility." 

It ain't gonna work. I don't know how we get back to business without first playing a little hardball. Put out the damn fire.

3  · 

Well ... I was hoping for more comedic catharsis rather than a historical walk down memory lane. Now I'm just depressed even more because if the Democrats even think about playing hardball they have to check the polls first, or whatever. Even then, with overwhelming public support, the Republicans still seem to make them look like partisan hacks.

 · 
tduds

Sorry, I'll be back with some jokes.

1  · 

The special counsel investigation thing was pretty funny. I chuckled at that.

The chess game is too realistic to be funny. I do tend to agree that Dems will break their backs trying to follow the "rules" while the Reps are simply changing the rules to do whatever they want. I.e. the "rule" that was made to deny Merrick Garland a SCOTUS seat, and also used to give Amy Coney Barrett one.

1  · 
SneakyPete

I like to call her Amy Barrett, just to tweak conservative nipples.

 · 
tduds

I think you mean Amy HUSSEIN Barret.

1  · 

Interesting. In a thread where we are talking about Dems treating Repubs like Repubs treat Dems ... I had the knee-jerk reaction to say I used her name as I did because I didn't want to stoop to their level and call her Amy Covid Barrett.

1  · 

Democrats be like, "We solemnly and with regret must inform VP Pence that we are going to wait for him to do something before we have a Zoom meeting to discuss whether or not we should do anything." 

Republicans be like, "LOL, we would have had half a dozen investigations opened already like we did after Benghazi. Ahem, but yeah, we need unity right now and investigations only sow division."

 · 
x-jla

Oh right right, Democrats treat republicans better than republicans treat democrats. Sure sure.

 · 
tduds

Yes exactly.

 · 
randomised

Well, as an innocent bystander my gut says that Republicans do seem to act more often out of spite towards Democrats, where Democrats try to act according to their political believes and principles...

3  · 
Wood Guy

Republicans are dumb, so they fight. Democrats are intelligent, so they argue. Unfortunately fighting seems to be more effective, much of the time.

2  · 

Careful Wood Guy, jla is going to come in here and tell you fighting is never the answer and that the revolution will be achieved through intellect and education ... which Republicans have defunded every chance they get so they can buy another fighter jet.

4  · 
Wood Guy

Yeah I know I shouldn't stir the pot. My comment was somewhat tongue in cheek, but not too far from the truth either. Have you read, "Guns, Germs and Steel"? I'm due for a re-read but the lesson I recall can be extended to say that the Republican strategy is likely to win in the end. You can't reason with someone who actively wants you dead, or wants what you have, and has the tools to get it.

2  · 
SneakyPete

See: "The Walking Dead"

 · 
x-jla

Music and literature have done more to change this nation than violence. “Politics is downstream from culture” and culture is downstream from art, science, technology, etc....these things also happen to be the things that humans consistently pursue across geographies and times. I believe creativity is the most powerful revolutionary force. Destruction is regressive always

 · 
x-jla

Call me a dirty hippy, but you won’t be able to prove me wrong.

 · 
Wood Guy

X-jla, have you read the book I mentioned? I agree that the things you value are important. They are important to many who vote blue. They are not important to those who vote red. I disagree that music and literature have been more influential than violence. The US is formed by violence and it's one of our defining features.

 · 
SneakyPete

Most of American culture is an amalgam, and much of it was gathered through violence. This doesn't invalidate it, but we need to acknowledge it.

3  · 
x-jla

Wood guy, I haven’t read it, but will try to. It sounds interesting. I’d say violence is an emergent force, not a guiding force. The Renaissance for example brought about many changes, and a different breed of violence emerged from this. Hopefully I’m not being too abstract. What I mean is that violence seems more like a symptom, consequence, or flaw of humanity’s advances than a force of change. Perfect example would be the Einstein’s invention of e=mc2. A creative force that moved humanity, but the consequence was the atom bomb followed by the nuclear arms race. The violence is downstream of the creation. Suppression of the violence should therefore be the constant goal, and the force of change that we ought to embrace should be creation. We are good at both, unfortunately.

 · 

I won't, but one could probably make the argument that violence led to the conditions that allowed not only American culture, but a lot of the world's culture to develop and flourish. If not that, at least allowed for it to spread throughout the world and be the soft power that might bring about any revolutionary change in someone else's culture. And yes, we need to acknowledge it, but not in the build statues to remember our heritage sort of way.

 · 
x-jla

How did violence lead to American culture? I’d say American culture led to violence. The original culture was one of manifest destiny,

 · 
x-jla

exploration, trade, etc.

 · 
x-jla

The chicken egg thing is not be argumentative, it’s an important distinction. The industrial revolution was a force that bred violence. It wasn’t rooted in violence. It was rooted in technological and scientific breakthroughs.

 · 
tduds

Are you suggesting "manifest destiny" was nonviolent?

1  · 

Wait!? Did jla try to refute my statement that violence led to conditions allowing culture to flourish, develop, and/or spread with "manifest destiny" ... and tried to suggest it was nonviolent!?!!

Edit: I'll just leave this here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

 · 
x-jla

Jesus, you are thick. No genius. Manifest destiny was a force that emerged from cultural ideas, technological advances, etc. Manifest destiny was a violent emergent force that was a consequence of changes that were brought about by artists, scientists, philosophers, theology, etc. This isn’t debatable.

 · 
x-jla

The seeds of change are creative or natural in origin. This is almost always the case. Politics, revolutions, wars, imperialism, these are downstream of those seeds. The entire modern world can be reduced to a single energy source- fossil fuels. This idea implies that our politics is not only seeded by the creative advances, but also limited by them.

 · 
x-jla

In other words, politics is a fools errand unless it’s concerned with maximizing the creative potential of its jurisdiction.

 · 
x-jla

And suppressing the emergence of violence.

 · 
tduds

None of that made much sense at all.

1  · 
x-jla

Progress is always a creative endeavor. Violence is always regressive.

 · 
x-jla

What’s not to understand

 · 

Thanks tduds, guess I don't really need to read any of it anyway then.

 · 
x-jla

Sloppy dismount

 · 
x-jla

Progress is not a top down thing. The concept of “progressives” is completely backwards. There are certain prerequisites for change that happen at the bottom. Civil rights for example was primed by the cultural shifts in music, literature, technology. The laws followed. The culture had to change to a certain degree for that cultural will to break the legal inertia.

 · 
x-jla

In other words, we the people have a much greater effect in our creative and cultural endeavors than in the political sphere. We can instigate Progress more by focusing on our crafts, our minds, our personal relationships, and our community, than trying to tinker with politics.

 · 

... unmuted for a minute to see what crap jla was slinging trying to redecorate the place. 

"In other words, we the people have a much greater effect in our creative and cultural endeavors than in the political sphere. We can instigate Progress more by focusing on our crafts, our minds, our personal relationships, and our community, than trying to tinker with politics.

I understand that's what you are saying, however, you're not doing it as you "tinker with politics" here. You should be focusing on your "creative and cultural endeavors [rather] than the political sphere." 

You are here to just call out the hypocrisy ... trying calling it out in yourself. Take a look at your commenting and posting history and decide whether you've been paying more attention to "instigat[ing] [p]rogress" by crafts, personal relationships, etc. ... or by "tinker[ing] with politics." 

Back on mute ...

1  · 
x-jla

Political debate and philosophy IS a creative pursuit. Voting and doing politics is not. Here’s one even you will understand - Marxism didn’t begin with revolution and killing, it began with creative literature and Philosophy.

 · 

Ok last time ... 

Do you think Marx and Marxism just popped up out of a vacuum of non-violence? Where was Marx born? What led to the socio-economic status he enjoyed that let him be a philosopher? You think the class struggles he was writing about didn't have some type of violence entwined in them? 

Now do the same for your "manifest destiny" comment, and any other example you want to think of. Let me know if you can come up with anything other than "God created the heavens and the earth" that wasn't predicated on some type of violence. Even the creation thing is debated though ... was the big bang violent?

 · 

I'll also reiterate for those who might forget or have selective memories. I'm not advocating for violence of any sort. I'm just pointing out that it has a place in our history and we should acknowledge it.

1  · 
tduds

There's no thesis with jla, only contrarianism. I know I've said this before, but I think I'm finally done with it.

 · 
x-jla

EA, you are not understanding. Of course Marx philosophy didn’t come from a vacuum. That’s not what I said at all. But The conditions that he lived were results of cultural and technological shifts in society that then caused a certain political and economic climate. The climate that he lived in was downstream of those changes that were brought about by creative forces. And without technology like the printing press and cultural changes like wider spread literary, his writings would be limited. I don’t know a single historian that would deny this idea. Since the beginning of human civilization, leaps in technology, cultural, etc sparked change. You don’t get Mesopotamia without advances in agricultural practice.

 · 
x-jla

Point is, politics follows these changes. We look to politicians as agents of change. They are not. They are just navigating the ship that someone else invented and built. Our politics are also limited by the limits of our technological and social progress. Attempts to tackle climate change for example will always be fools errands without major advances in renewables.

 · 
x-jla

We can keep looking at any scenario. The pandemic response is obviously limited. The vaccines and treatments and scientific understanding sets the limits of political action.

 · 
randomised

When people opt to control our offline public space with private funds they're labelled fascist (Schumacher), so is big tech fascist when they try to control our online public space and the ideas that are allowed to circulate there?

Jan 12, 21 4:32 am  · 
 · 
bowling_ball

When that 'control' is in an effort to silence violent insurrection? I'll give it a pass. Nice try with the"whataboutism" though. Maybe next time.

2  · 
x-jla

It comes down to whether they are truly “private” companies. I believe they may not be legally considered private because of the subsidies they receive. If they are “providers” like a utility, then they cannot monitor speech. This is probably something that will be hashed out in the courts soon. What certainly seems illegal is their blanket ban of Parler, because being that they all collided to remove a competitor can probably be an antitrust violation depending on how these companies are all related. I’m guessing Amazon will get dealt a big blow from this lawsuit. It seems obvious that none of these companies actually care about speech. They are using it as an excuse to remove a competitor that is gaining popularity, and probably to gain the political pull of the political elite so that they can continue to be treated like private companies while getting subsidized.

 · 
randomised

You'll give that fascism by big tech a pass bb? Good to know ;-)

 · 
x-jla

They are on the “enemy of my enemy is my friend” thing or something like that.

 · 
tduds

A lot of tech CEOs and big VC names seem to have authoritarian impulses, yes.

2  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Fascism? How about "Anarcho-capitalism". Yeah, it sucks, and yeah I'd prefer a platform that offered real accountability, but then what does that look like? I've been banned from Twitter for calling out racists, for wishing The Orange Shitgibbon a Happy Coronary Day

 · 
SneakyPete

One can dislike Schumacher and Google at the same time without falsely equating them to score imaginary points on an internet message board, sure.

3  · 
bowling_ball

randomized, you're comparing apples to blue jeans. TAKING a PUBLIC resource away, and ENFORCING rules against inciting violence by a PRIVATE company are not at all the same thing. But you righties just love to repeat "whatabout" until you're blue in the face. You may as well keep trying, but nobody's listening. (BTW I made the important words IN ALL CAPS so you could follow)

1  · 
randomised

I'm not falsely equating them, I'm simply equating them as do others here, see:

"A lot of tech CEOs and big VC names seem to have authoritarian impulses, yes."

I'm simply comparing how online and offline public space is being (proposed to be) controlled and how people label such control mechanisms fascism in the one but dare not in the other. Use it to your advantage, or not...what do I care.

 · 
SneakyPete

Public space is being bought by companies or being given to companies by the government and controlled by the companies for the future. The internet space was never public. This is not to say I agree with this, but it's a distinction that the original question doesn't account for.

 · 
x-jla

I believe that google and Twitter and Amazon inadvertently just created a need that will eventually lead to their demise. The decentralization of internet. Someone will figure the tech out eventually, and centralized providers will become a thing of the past.

 · 
x-jla

Google will be like the yellow cabs soon enough.

 · 
tduds

The technology for a decentralized internet already exists. It's called "the internet". The money is the problem that needs solving.

1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

The racists can have reddit, but they want to digitally assault people with impunity.

 · 
tduds

A very well-written (and, gasp, conservative!) perspective on this sort of thing is Matt Stoller. I subscribed to his newsletter "BIG" (https://mattstoller.substack.com/) a while back. It's not all mindblowing, but it provides a good insight into the history of lax oversight surrounding monopolies in general has led to the current state of tech & the internet.

 · 
SneakyPete

Which article would you recommend to start?

 · 
tduds

This was the one that led me to subscribe: https://mattstoller.substack.com/p/wework-and-counterfeit-capitalism This is also a good starting point as its one of his first essays: https://mattstoller.substack.com/p/break-ups-and-stock-prices

1  · 
x-jla

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/07/bomb-explodes-in-us-capitol-nov-7-1983-244578


In 1983 a group of communists bombed the capitol building.  One of the people involved was Susan Rosenberg, who now is a organizer of BLM.  Get off the high horse folks.  Violence exists on the left and right, and Extremists of all denominations who use violence are equally vile imo.  

Jan 12, 21 10:17 am  · 
 · 
x-jla

You can’t make this shit up. Look at how Snoops twists the truth. That biased pos site. “ In the absence of a single, universally-agreed definition of "terrorism," it is a matter of subjective determination as to whether the actions for which Rosenberg was convicted and imprisoned — possession of weapons and hundreds of pounds of explosives — should be described as acts of "domestic terrorism."

 · 
x-jla

It’s almost parody, but it’s not funny

 · 
x-jla

To correct my self, she’s a fundraiser for blm, not an organized, from what I’ve read.

 · 
bowling_ball

Ahhh yes, another attempt at "whataboutism." Why are you do intellectually bankrupt that you can't address the every real issues at hand, instead of trying to point your finger in a different direction? Are you trying to distract? It's not working.

 · 
x-jla

The narrative has been that right-wing violence is more of a threat, and that left wing violence is somewhat acceptable. Have people not implied that in here? I’m simply showing that left wing violence is not a lesser evil, and that they have indeed attacked the capitol building in the past. Just like I’m arguing that right wing violence doesn’t lessen the threat of left wing violence, the inverse is also true. I have universally condemned violence as a political tool. Others on here have tried to downplay the threat of the left over the last year, and focus only on the recent events at the capitol where right wing extremists engaged in a violent attack. The accepted narrative that “we don’t do what they do” is not correct. I’m just highlighting that so that the conversation can be elevated from finger pointing to examine the bigger trends of violent extremism and violent rioting.

 · 
tduds

1983 lol.

 · 
Non Sequitur

jla, did you read the entire Snopes article? Here is their concluding observation. Emphasis mine:

"One could reasonably argue that Rosenberg’s actions in the explosives possession case served her and her comrades’ overarching mission of militant opposition to U.S. government policy and broader power structures and were in keeping with the group’s (if not Rosenberg’s) proven record of using bomb attacks to influence the wider American public and advance their cause. As such, a supportable (though not definitive) case exists for claiming that the crimes of which Rosenberg was convicted in 1985 were indeed acts of domestic terrorism."

 · 
x-jla

Tduds: Regan did things and stuff. Also Tduds: 1983 lol

 · 
x-jla

Non, I did. I read it and the conclusion should show as “true” but is shows a “mixture” based on a ridiculous thing that they obviously made up so that they could label it as such.

 · 
square.

imagine thinking it's a profound insight that "both the left and right have done bad things at different points in history."

4  · 
tduds

Hey did y'all know THE DEMOCRATS were the racist ones in the 1870s? Really makes you think.

2  · 
x-jla

Imagine not being able to see past your own biases.

 · 
bowling_ball

x-jla, you linked to snopes article in defense of your own story, but then you refute its very conclusion. Really?

 · 
Non Sequitur

that mixture badge just shows the reader that the claim cannot be determined to be factual or fictional. You're reading too much into it. Snopes has a decent track record for honesty.

 · 
x-jla

Bowling ball, no I didn’t. I posted a politico article, and then a snoops article to show how snoops is a bs propaganda machine posing as an authority on truth

 · 
tduds

Let it go no one cares.

 · 
x-jla

There is no fucking way that snoops would extend such an approach to a right wing equivalent...they are obviously trying to soften/weaken the talking point about this case by stretching their creative license to give it a “mixture” badge. Bombing a federal building is obviously domestic terrorism. They found a little semantic loophole because they wanted to shape perception at first glance because most people won’t read the whole thing, and they probably know this based on data that shows how people glacé at the first page. It’s a truth hidden behind a bs sugarcoat

 · 
Non Sequitur

you really don't know how snopes works, do you?

1  · 
x-jla
Non Sequitur

clearly it's a far left libtard looking to spread more imaginary dirt on the good intentions of christian americans. It's also obvious anti-gun propaganda.

 · 
proto

clearly antifa

 · 
x-jla

Being anti-violence doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t choke a mf’er out if I saw them messing with a manatee...

 · 
tduds

Everybody's got a line.

2  · 
Non Sequitur

I’m no manatee expert, but I doubt the average trump supporter has the athletic skill necessity to do this. This, to me, speaks of a culprit well trained in communist yoga and kale-based diet.

1  · 
x-jla

It’s possible the manatee mistook the trump supporter for a fellow alpha manatee...

2  · 
randomised

My sister once scratched my name into the window of the family garden shed to get me punished.

 · 
Wood Guy

It was a double secret false flag initiative.

2  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Instead of listening to the cacophony of garbage from a serial idiot, go and read this brief NYT piece. 

Jamie Raskin

Jan 12, 21 5:02 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

“Tell me, why is Ronald Reagan dead but Jimmy Carter still alive? I’ll tell you, it’s anti-conservative bias..."

https://politics.theonion.com/...

Jan 12, 21 6:11 pm  · 
3  · 
axonapoplectic

Looking more likely that the senate has the votes to convict. McConnell’s office leaked that they want to purge the Trump faction from the party (and he doesn’t leak, so this seems pretty big - does that mean they’re going to purge a bunch of GOP legislature too?).  At least 3 house GOP are publicly saying they will vote for impeachment (my guess is likely at least a dozen or more will eventually vote to impeach).


My question is what is the political calculus for not invoking the 24th amendment. 

Jan 12, 21 10:27 pm  · 
 · 

Easier to slow walk an impeachment trial in the senate and disrupt confirmation votes for Biden’s cabinet?

 · 

Better for the party to claim it was done as a party rather than by just a few cabinet members and Pence?

 · 

The cabinet is too loyal to Trump?

 · 

After conviction in the senate McConnell can bar trump from holding future office, but they can’t do that with the 25th?

 · 
axonapoplectic

4 GOP reps now. I think the whole party coming together to condemn trump is probably closer to the real answer.

 · 

Personally, I think McConnell is really pissed about it and has had enough of Trumpism. It worked well enough up until now to get his judges, but seeing Georgia go blue and lose control of the senate was too much and he’s ready to purge. As long as the articles aren’t too off the mark he'll be happy to convict and probably take the credit for leading the party back to some semblance of dignity. Bar is set pretty low. I do think he’s taking a gamble with the base, but he’s not up for re-election in the next few years anyway so it’s kind of not his problem, but still his problem. I don’t know, maybe he’s thinking of retiring after this term and if he succeeds he goes out on a high, and if not he won’t care ... his legacy is set with his judges.

1  · 
x-jla

The politicians may try to do a 180, but a big enough portion of the base is probably not going to change, which will make it hard to ever elect an establishment Republican again for President.

 · 
randomised

Perhaps Trump is just a troll sent in by the Democrats to destroy the Republican Party from the inside...

1  · 
SneakyPete

Yeah. That's totally it.

2  · 
randomised

I knew it!

 · 
Wood Guy

EA, you are ascribing feelings to Mitch that I honestly don't think he possesses. He cares about power and nothing else. His change of tune is not a moral one, it's a calculated one.

3  · 
square.

agree with wood guy on this one- moscow mitch is a shrewd politician, and trump is no longer useful to him. in fact, keeping him a relevant force would only fuck things up for the republicans in the future.

1  · 
x-jla

Accurate, but that’s all politicians.

 · 

WG, totally agree. Aside from the rapid-fire brainstorming [joking] portion, I'm not sure I'm attributing any feelings (except frustration at Trump's idiocy) or morals to Mitch. I think his calculation is that he sucked all he needed from Trump the last 4 years and is ready to discard the withered husk and look for his next prey. I think he's also calculated that if he can be seen as the voice of reason in the party, that's more power he can use to be kingmaker in 2024. That his wife was one of the first to resign, to me says he saw the writing on the wall well before yesterday's NYT story. Mitch is an opportunist and he's done his calculus and sees an opportunity here. If not, he'd just be on media blackout until the Biden's inauguration.

2  · 
square.

imagine being so distorted by a view that both sides are the same, that you think mitch mcconnell and bernie sanders are equivalents.

1  · 
tduds

Mitch cares about one thing - controlling the senate. He lost that, both electorally and physically, on Jan 6th. He decided Trump is responsible for that loss, so it's time to purge Trump.

2  · 
liberty bell

Six Supreme Court justices who call themselves “Pro-life” executed a human, a US citizen, last night.


The god she believes in just handed Amy Coney Barrett an opportunity to show grace, and instead Amy chose murder. Suuuuuuper pro-life of her!

Jan 13, 21 7:27 am  · 
4  · 
Wood Guy

They only care about fetal tissue. By the time the fetus is born they have lost interest.

4  · 
Non Sequitur

M'erca!

insert flying bald eagles, flags, rockets, ted nugent, blind patriotism, etc.  

3  · 
x-jla

Don’t drag bald eagles into the mud. They are cool

 · 
Non Sequitur

You’re right jla. I’ve seen some in the wild up here too.

1  · 
x-jla

Impossible, they don’t fly in gay countries. Jkjk lol

 · 
SneakyPete

Army Coney Island is gross.

1  · 

Greenlighting executions is about all the newest pro-life justice has done since she was sworn in.

2  · 
randomised

No civilised country should have capital punishment, maybe with the Democrats now in the driving seat it’s finally time to make it right...no excuses.

4  · 
x-jla

Or abortions beyond first trimester

 · 
x-jla
x-jla

Oligarchy is the correct term

 · 
axonapoplectic

I can’t keep up with the news. A house member (former military) is claiming some of her colleagues were doing what appeared to be recon the day before - alluding that it may have been people who eventually got arrested for storming the Capitol. This and other reports (military brass note about Biden being president elect, former defense officials warning). Also it appears some reps discovered their office security systems had been tampered with when they went back to shelter in place. It really seems like an inside job.

I think in the next few weeks we will see expulsions and arrests - but I’m getting really worried about the future of this country.

Jan 13, 21 11:40 am  · 
2  · 

I think it will be interesting to see how this all works out and what investigations reveal. In my frustrated opinion right now, any politician calling for unity and healing right now is trying to cover up their aiding and abetting.

3  · 
x-jla

Usually the detectives look at who benefits first.

 · 
x-jla

Obviously republicans didn’t think that a group of fool would actually accomplish a coup. This smells of theatrics to me...a way to either purge trumpism or a way to ensure it’s continuation.

 · 
x-jla

As for the future of this country, I’m seriously considering leaving for a nutty place.

 · 
x-jla

*less nutty place

 · 
axonapoplectic

Rep clyburn said the mob bipassed the door with his name on it and found an unmarked room in an out of the way area where he does most of his work and stormed that office. The comptroller’s unmarked office was ransacked. The comptroller keeps the electoral college ballots (which were moved to a secure location) - how would some random mob know exactly where the comptroller’s unmarked office was and what his role was? I really seems like they had inside help.

2  · 
x-jla

Sounds like a conspiracy theory

 · 
x-jla

But totally possible,

 · 
bowling_ball

Who doesn't think this was helped by some on the inside? It had to be at some level. We've all seen the videos of the cops opening gates and doors.

2  · 
x-jla

Who doesn’t think the election was rigged to some degree? It had to be at some level. We’ve all seen the video testimonials. Sounds like both have a very similar level of “proof”. Yet, one is taboo to look into, the other is acceptable. Both sound to me like mostly loose conspiracy theories with maybe a small degree of truth.

1  ·  1
x-jla

This is the double standard that is driving the division. How can you not see

1  ·  1
tduds

Sounds like both have a very similar level of “proof”. 

incorrect.

 · 
x-jla

Democrats: Things that support the outcome that I want to arrive at are theories about conspiracy, things that don’t are conspiracy theories.

 ·  1
x-jla

Looking at the beneficiary, as any detective would, the Democrats would be suspect since they are benefiting politically. Can you provide reason as to why the it’s less likely than an “inside” job by the republicans, assuming it is which it’s probably not?

 · 
tduds

No, I'm just going to wait until we see what information comes from the investigations taking place and continue to live in reality.

 · 
x-jla

I’m curious to see too. Difference is, you didn’t even want an investigation into the claims of fraud. Those claims were initiated by circumstantial evidence, testimony, and imagination. These are no different. These get an investigation. The others don’t. Why?

 · 
tduds

Sure I did. And there were. And they found nothing.

 · 
x-jla

Haha, ok. It was ridiculed and called a QAnon conspiracy from day 1. Don’t you understand that is why 30-50% of the country feels like they are being treated differently? If they didn’t dismiss the accusations, and the media coverages the investigation with some open mindedness, the matter would have been settled. Instead, they demonized anyone with the nerve to question the integrity of the Democrats or process. Americans have the right to believe whatever they want, and question whatever they want. When 1/2 the country dismissed the concerns of the other 1/2, they are absolutely culpable in fanning the flames.

 · 
tduds

So I should just let people believe in lies so they don't get butthurt and start a civil war? That's very dumb, even for you.

& also "Half" is a gross overstatement. 

 · 
x-jla

No, “you” should not have anything to say unless you did an actual investigation. The only thing you should say is “if a portion of my fellow citizens think that there was a fraud we should investigate”. The investigation then reveals the truth, not the media, not snarky Twitter users, not activists.

 · 
tduds

But you're leaning on the media and snarky Tweets as evidence that a real "investigation" into voting irregularities didn't occur, even though - in literally dozens of jurisdictions and court cases - claims were investigated and nothing was found.

1  · 
tduds

Pardon the twitter link but this is not snark, it's a thread of journalistic & legal sources: https://twitter.com/Ike_Saul/status/1324435797374808066

1  · 
tduds

House of Representatives about to deliver me a birthday present.

Jan 13, 21 12:42 pm  · 
5  · 

Happy birthday!

3  · 
SneakyPete

Happy birthday!

1  · 
atelier nobody

Hey, we're almost Birthday Buddies - mine was yesterday. Congratulations on another trip around the Sun!

2  · 
x-jla

Happy birthday

 · 
tduds

Happy Birthday fellow Capricorn!

 · 
Non Sequitur

Capri-what? oh no... not horrorscopes.

signed, a OPHIUCHUS.

1  · 
tduds

My entire knowledge of astrology is stereotypes about Capricorns that I made up, because I am a Capricorn married to another Capricorn who likes astrology.

 · 
Non Sequitur

qed. sorry... not sorry. sorry for not being sorry.

 · 

Airbnb to Block and Cancel D.C. Reservations During Inauguration: https://news.airbnb.com/airbnb...

Press release says guests will be refunded in full, and hosts will be paid in full at Airbnb's expense. If you were a guest and you know the property will remain vacant ... what's to stop you from reaching out to the host for the key/code to stay at the property anyway (assuming of course the host is sympathetic to your cause)?

Jan 13, 21 1:44 pm  · 
2  · 
x-jla

And just like that, the left likes corporations again.

 ·  1
tduds

And just like that, jla derails the point to jab at the left again.

2  · 
SneakyPete

lack of self control, even when it hurts his (almost non-existent) credibility.

2  · 
x-jla

I’m just a stickler for consistency

 · 
curtkram

that's not consistency jla, it's absolutism

 · 

Seems relevant...

4  · 
x-jla

Libertarians: we should let the market decide.....Market: [decides that promoting indirection is bad for business] Libertarians: Yes, that’s what we meant but can’t wait for a new tech startup that upsets the tech oligarchs power and offers more speech...

 · 
x-jla

Personally, If I were voting there today, I would have called out Democrats as hypocrites for inciting riots all year and promoting divisive rhetoric, and not accepting the results of the 2016 election, and then I would have been consistent and voted for Trump to be impeached, because his actions over the last few weeks certainly warrants impeachment.

 · 
square.

everything that republicans have stood for in the past few decades (free market, tickle down economics, deficit concerns, blue lives, "family" values, on and on) has been eviscerated by trump. all that is left is a conspiracy laden group of cowards and lunatics.

1  · 
x-jla

Agree, but do you really think Bush / Cheney neoconservatives is a better thing? I’ve never voted for a republican president, because they have historically been more authoritative. The Democrats of the past tended to be more “liberal” in the traditional meaning of the term. They believed in free speech, civil liberties, creativity, individuality, etc. The Dems have become the party of identity politics, big nanny govt, and elitism. Imo the 2 parties need to be completed broken apart. Parties should not be like fraternities. They should be grounded in solid principals and political philosophy. Then, the parties and politicians debate, compromise, etc. American politics are trash. Trumpism is a dummies rejection of a real problem...the shitty 2 party corrupt swampy political class.

 · 
x-jla

So, you can blame everything on trump, but he’s only been around for 4 years. The problems have been festering for decades.

 · 
tduds

Just gonna go read page 2 or whatever instead of having this argument again.

2  · 
SneakyPete

IMPEACHED. AGAIN.

Jan 13, 21 4:24 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

Your move, Mitchell

 · 
proto

the turtle won't move - he's going to hand this off to Schumer & will paint the Democrats with it & obstruct just like he did under Obama

2  · 

Did I miss the vote! Curse trying to get work done!

1  · 
axonapoplectic

Several members of the house have asked capitol police to investigate why there were an unusually large number of visitors on the 5th. Apparently tours were ended back in March 2020, and the only way currently for a visitor to enter the building is through a member of Congress or their staff.


what’s concerning to me is that they’re asking about protocols and if visitors are logged by the reps or by the police (as if they don’t know?). They’re also asking for any video surveillance of who may have entered the building the day before, and if they match individuals who were spotted in the building on the 5th. The concern is several people in the mob had intricate knowledge of the layout of the building, as if they had been in there before. If there is a connection that means that some members of Congress (and/or their staff) were involved.


Plus forcing members of Congress to go through metal detectors seems like they suspect someone or multiple people. 

Jan 13, 21 5:05 pm  · 
 · 
atelier nobody

"Plus forcing members of Congress to go through metal detectors seems like they suspect someone or multiple people."

And the Members who are being little bitches about it aren't exactly doing much to assuage those suspicions.

2  · 
axonapoplectic

This Twitter thread is insane. Journalist outlines the events leading up to the riot and who was involved. This is pretty damning. 

Jan 13, 21 6:53 pm  · 
1  · 
axonapoplectic

Note: US DC attorney is using public corruption prosecutors for the capitol riot. This means public officials are implicated. I am now beginning to wonder if the McConnell delay for the senate trial is that there is more info to come out.

1  · 
SneakyPete

Maybe trump will only pardon them for the charges they already have, and then in 7 days the feds can bring the hammer down.

 · 
curtkram

the idea of trump being the sitting president on Jan 20 scares me.  I think his cult is going to try something like this again to disrupt the peaceful transition of power.  I stand behind and I stand with the republican party and Mike Pence.  On the other hand, there is this https://www.militarytimes.com/...

Jan 13, 21 7:51 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

You stand behind and with feckless cowards who stood with the traitor in the White House for four fucking years, with Pence all the while being privy to the thoughts and statements that DIDN'T leak. Why is that?

3  · 
curtkram

because it's time to put the past behind us, start a new year. turn around and fix all the shit we fucked up. I'm at the point I'm so exhausted that I welcome the opportunity to forgive and forget. Let's just stop with all the horrible stuff.

1  ·  1
SneakyPete

Talk to the republican party, get on board with justice, and THEN we can have a nice long "put the past behind us, start a new year." Republicans broke it, they need to be held to account. No justice: sends the message that you can lie your way to office, lie while in office, lie on the way out, and nobody will do anything except cry about the lack of unity and harmony. No thanks, Trump needs to be barred from office. Trump needs to have the hammer brought down. Period.

4  · 
curtkram

I stand behind pence sitting in the office of the president of the United States at Biden's inauguration on Jan 20.

 · 
proto

@curtkram, call your reps & sens and tell them to sack up and publically cleave their tethers to Trump in the most clear & hasty manner. This is their job, not the judiciary's. Otherwise, it's just hand wringing and "thoughts/prayers"...or more frankly: just selfish, politically-expedient standing on the sidelines hoping someone else is going to do the dirty work of leadership.

1  · 
x-jla

There is nothing less courageous than being an anti trump Democratic rn. It’s what’s expected. It’s more brave to be a republican who is breaking from Trump imo. Calculated or not, it’s still carrying more risk.

 · 
tduds

Staggering lack of bravery from the Republican party, as expected.

4  · 
SneakyPete

I think they all share a single intenstine from which they draw their collective fortitude. That's why they're full of bile and not much else.

2  · 
bowling_ball

tduds, once again you're much more eloquent than I could ever be. My response to that nonsense would typically be something like "go fuck yourself, you ignorant hypocrite." But I'll refrain this time.

3  · 
tduds

I haven't been drinking, yet ;)

2  · 
x-jla

Being anti-trump has been to most establishment thing to do since 2015. This does not mean trump good! It means opposition to him is simply not an act of courage. It’s what’s expected. What’s wrong about that?

1  · 
x-jla

Just saying, stop pretending to be speaking truth to power when the US govt, corporations, military, foreign nations, majority of voters, media, and just about every other establishment besides Trump and his minions is on your side. He never had more power than those opposing forces.

 · 
gibbost

@x-jla I'm not sure I can be called out as 'establishment' for simply rooting against evil. I'd like to believe there are more of us on the side of good--regardless of where that puts you on the courage spectrum. I mean really, who roots for Darth Vader or Lex Luthor? And yes, the reckoning taking place within the GOP is the silver lining to the anguish that has been the Trump presidency.

3  · 
tduds

Thanks for reminding the zero people who said something was courageous that it isn't. Do you also interrupt people drinking water to explain that it's wet?

3  · 
curtkram

how is anit-trump even a thing still? he's done. his supporters are done. we're back to the old fashioned republican v democrat and reaching across the aisle will help everyone.

 · 
tduds

lol no we're not & no it won't.

If anyone wants to reach across the aisle let the Republicans start. I'm old enough to know how this dumb "unity & civility" trick works and I'm embarrassed how many people still buy into it.

5  · 
x-jla

“ You stand behind and with feckless cowards”. Second comment

 · 
tduds

If unity is the goal, it's on the offender to ask for forgiveness. If that fails, it's on the authority to hold the offender accountable. Demanding that the abused party "get over it" is about impunity, not unity. Frankly one way to begin to rebuild unity would have been an unequivocal, bipartisan, repudiation of the attempted fascism of Donald Trump. They had that chance yesterday & they blew it. 

Peace will come from purging the authoritarians within our ranks, not making nice with them.

5  · 
x-jla

Lol. You see the Democrats as the abused party?

 · 
x-jla

Btw, I agree with impeachment. But the division was definitely a 2 way street. Like a damaged relationship, both parties need to own up to their mistakes.

 · 
tduds

In this case I see the people who sought to overturn a fair democratic election as the abusers, and everyone else in the democracy as the abused.

3  · 
bowling_ball

x-jla again with the "both sides" and "whatabout". Take it somewhere else, it's not working here.

4  · 
x-jla

Tduds, if everyone doesn’t chill tf out with the divisions it’s never going to end. When I fight with my wife, even if I’m right, sometimes I just say sorry anyway to deescalate and move on. It always takes both sides of an argument to reconcile. Yes, some followers are racists and assholes, but the vast majority were just choosing between 2 shitty candidates. See south park douche vs turd sandwich episode. Everyone needs to stop taking it all so personally, stop telling people what to think and do, and chill. It’s all bullshit.

 · 
archi_dude

It's fine. All these dems fleeing their terrible states policies that have driven low job growth, wage growth, high housing prices, rising crime and homelessness to red states will flip them blue. Quite ironic though they cant seem to connect the fact they are voting for what they fled....

 ·  3
b3tadine[sutures]

nonsensical bullshit.

4  · 
tduds

"You're right, honey, our marriage was a fraud and I don't deserve to live in this house or see our kids ever." if that's what you think is 'reconcilliation' then ok.

1  · 
tduds

"Conservative belief in pervasive Democratic Party voter fraud goes back decades — and rests on racist and nativist tropes that date back to Reconstruction in the South and Tammany Hall in the North — but the modern obsession with fraud dates back to the 2000 election." https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/15/opinion/voter-fraud-capitol-attack.html 

But sure, the Democratic Party should just be the bigger person here and admit the Republicans are right that their elections are all because of voter fraud and they have no legitimate claim to power. And... then what? You think they're going to just back off?

Fuck your dumb both-sides-ism. It only makes you somehow more annoying than either side .

4  · 
x-jla

Funny you just gloss over the fact that the Dems tried to overthrow a duly elected president with a fake dossier, bogus warrant, and conspiracy theory about collusion and then called anyone who voted for him literal nazis...never happened right?

1  ·  2
x-jla

If you don’t see this as a two sides engaged in a dysfunctional escalation of corruption, with one giant tyrannical baby vs a swamp of slime balls then I really don’t know...maybe you’ve somehow branched into an alternate reality

 · 
x-jla

Maybe this is why neither party can manage to let the decent and principaled ones rise up...Bernie, Yang, Gabbard, Amash, Crenshaw, etc....own your parties fucking mistakes and move on. It’s not something to be taken personally.

 · 
tduds

"The self-described non-partisan who uncritically parrots Fox and WSJ talking points" starring x-jla.

4  ·  1
square.

xlax, when you raise your "points" above high-school level abstractions, man, we'll talk.

3  ·  1
SneakyPete

You might. I won't.

1  · 
x-jla

Then you are all part of the problem.

 · 
x-jla

Fox and wsj aren’t always wrong. They also aren’t always right. MSNBC and vox aren’t always wrong. They also aren’t always right.

 · 
square.

MIND BLOWN

 · 
x-jla
tduds

Damn you for tricking me into visiting Fox News.

2  · 
x-jla

Haha

 · 
JonathanLivingston

"Improving media literacy is wholly unamerican" ? X-jla you wouldn't agree that the "good people" on both sides could use some better education in media literacy?

 · 
x-jla

No. The government needs to build roads and stfu. AOC is a civil servant, not a dictator or truth.

 · 
x-jla

Media watchdogs are shocked and appalled that Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said that Congress is looking into media literacy initiatives, including a commission to help "rein in" misinformation in the wake of last week’s deadly breach of the U.S. Capitol – and one critic slammed AOC’s suggestion as "wholly un-American."

 · 
x-jla

Looks like JL needs some media literacy. You litterally misquoted the article

 · 
tduds

"Media watchdogs" - which ones? "one critic" Who? Name names, it matters.

 · 
x-jla

I may become a full time fake news creator If some asshole political noob tries to rein in on my 1st amendment rights. Does she really think that people aren’t going to double down just out of spite?

 · 
JonathanLivingston

The vast majority of Americans did not grow up with complete laissez-faire media. They grew up with publishers, who were held accountable by market forces. You couldn't just spout trash until people believed. It couldn't be sustained, you couldn't make money doing it. But with the rise of the internet and the total opening of information availability now you can spout trash in the dark until someone believes, you can keep doing it until you have followers, you can grow from a small voice to a larger one without the old market-based checks on information accountability we call facts. That slippery slope can then be followed by more reputable outlets cause "people are saying" therefore it's news, and becomes an "emotional truth". And we have witnessed the people falling for these pieces of information tend to not be the most critically literate, be that your woke SJW who just goes along with the crowd or the boomer who's addicted to Fox. It all comes down to media literacy. Improving people's ability to think critically is the answer to reining in misinformation put forth by media companies and individuals. Increase education so people can be more critical. Then you can have lizzie fair media. Take this forum for instance. Great critical thinkers. Very few falling for the misleading information traps, questioning, discussing, and blocking or ignoring individuals who prove time and time again that they don't live up to an information standard that the community holds. But still, there is moderation. How do you apply a similar moderation at a greater scale? I personally believe that this a growing pain of technology more than anything and we will get back to more accountability and objective facts. But it is going to take calling people out on some shit and learning to recognize the misinformation.

1  · 
JonathanLivingston

Its' not reining in your right to teach others to think critically and see through bullshit.

1  · 
JonathanLivingston

Media literacy is how you rein in misinformation. it carries no power if people think critically. Increasing our capabilities to combat a problem is very American. and the insinuation made by the article that it means some sort of free speech violation is a great example of misinformation.

 · 
tduds

This goes back to my old axiom that you can learn what people truly believe by listening less to what they say and more to what inspires them to speak up. Of course those who currently benefit from an uncritical audience would feel threatened by attempts to increase critical thinking.

3  ·  1
x-jla

Lol. But that’s not what she’s calling for. Come on, you guys can only hear one pitch of dog whistle? She’s advocating for a govt “ministry of truth” of sorts.

 · 
x-jla

If you believe the government should be in charge of defining truth, then you aren’t thinking critically

 · 
tduds

So I just spent 10 minutes looking into it and there are zero sources of this story that aren't right wing opinion pieces. 

As far as I can tell this is essentially the only *fact*: “And we’re going to have to figure out how we rein in our media environment so that you can’t just spew disinformation and misinformation. It’s one thing to have differing opinions, but it’s another thing entirely to just say things that are false.” 

I was able to find this bill (not sponsored or introduced by Ocasio-Cortez): https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/4668 But beyond that all of this is (in my opinion) bad faith right wing speculation.

1  · 
JonathanLivingston

Jlax, I think you are making a jump. No one has suggested that the government define truth, fox friends labeled it a proposal for a "truth ministry". I don't think anyone thinks the government should be defining the truth. That's absurd and your and Fox's twist to the absurd is offensive. That's why Fox and yourself are being held in lower and lower esteem these days. Education, pure and simple is the only truly American solution to the problem at hand. people are being educated. slowly. Through some hard knocks and continuing to respond to the absurd. The government has a role and responsibility in providing the opportunity for education for its citizens. 

2  · 
x-jla

No place for government period.

 · 
tduds

We could simply apply the same standards to the internet as we do to print and broadcast media. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/13/three-steps-help-treat-americas-debilitating-information-disorder/

 · 
tduds

This page is 5 days old. That's ~25 posts per day in just this thread (almost certainly more since today is only half over).

Get a damn hobby, man. This can't be good for your health. 

Jan 15, 21 1:25 pm  · 
3  · 
SneakyPete

He's our very own Rudy Giuliani. ​ Where once I might have been interested in his opposing views, I now actively avoid him and wish he'd stop showing up because he adds nothing of value to the world and instead causes real harm to my opinion of the human species.

4  · 
JonathanLivingston

Individual people refuting his positions is a great example of them using their media literacy to rein in their exposure to and the power of misinformation. Eventually, people stop caring, stop listening, and start ignoring, and the misinformation is left with its perfectly intact right to shout its free speech into the ether.

1  · 
x-jla

Says Tduds who easily has as many posts, or close

 · 
tduds

79 as of this post, and I'm constantly chiding myself for getting sucked into your obnoxious tirades. If you were to post less, I would post less. If I were to stop, you would not (as evidenced by past threads where I've checked out for a few weeks).

2  · 
JonathanLivingston

This is where I become torn. It's exhausting to counter the emotionally held absurdities. It's hard to care that much especially when you know it's just absurd, it should be clear to others. But there is a huge value in combating the spread by fighting it when it pops up. Eventually, you can't contain it. Like a pandemic. A pandemic of stupid that has taken hold of this nation. Transmitted by going online. It's like an STD. I freaking love the free flow of information, I'm sure J-lax does too. We just need to get everyone some misinformation prophylactics.

3  · 
tduds

Just ran through the whole thread - this might not be entirely accurate because I just tallied up "ctrl+f" for each username, so it also accounts for times where other users have mentioned one of our names (which is more for me than you, since "jla" is the go-to mention, while I searched "x-jla"). 

Anyway, of 5,020 posts in this thread, 1,561 are yours (That's 31%!). 933 are mine. And, like I said, I'm aware of and somewhat regretful of my posting frequency here. 

Takin' a break now, I think. Will you?

2  · 
x-jla

I agree with that. I think it’s mostly because no one trusts msm anymore because of their obvious bias. There is no objective baseline to judge other fake stories from.

 · 
Wood Guy

"no one trusts msm anymore because of their obvious bias"

I disagree--many of us rely on steadfast media for information and are smart enough to read through any perceived bias. That doesn't mean we're getting 100% unfiltered information, but just because the right can't stop squawking about media bias doesn't mean it's as bad as they say.

2  · 
randomised

Just get your biased info from both ends of the horseshoe and you’ll end up in the middle?

 · 
SneakyPete

That's the definition of fallacious.

 · 
tduds

Again with paying attention to when & why people speak up more than what they say: The very idea of "Biased MSM" was a seed planted by Fox News in the 90s (Fair & Balanced!). The goal was to sow distrust throughout - to "flood the zone with bullshit" as they say - so that their own bias would be seen not as a clear propagandist outlier, but as a counterweight to the (not nearly as) biased "liberal" media. It's been 25 years and the talking point is a given reality.

There is, of course, more to it that just that. But it certainly got the ball rolling.

2  · 

It drives me crazy to see the media (biased or not) getting dragged into the "fair and balanced" BS where they need to present "both sides" of a story. Sometimes the "other side" doesn't carry enough weight to deserve the platform. To pretend that there is an equal and opposing viewpoint just promotes a false balance that doesn't really exist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

"Millions think that Black Lives Matter. To discuss the opposite we found one white supremacist who disagrees. For the *whole* story, tune in at 11"

3  · 
x-jla

You obviously don’t understand what’s meant by media bias. “Fair and balanced” shouldn’t mean 2 sets of opinions. The media should simply present 1 set of facts. Journalism wasn’t supposed to be about the opinion of the journalist. They are there to investigate and present to the public. Fox did start this trend if I remember...but overall news has become another form of entertainment.

 · 
tduds

You just said we didn't understand and then repeated exactly what we said in the prior comments.

 · 
x-jla

No, it’s not.

 · 
tduds

Yeeeeah it is.

 · 
molten

This is old news (and maybe it's already been discussed), but any thoughts on Biden's proposal for immediate cancellation of 10k of federal student loans?

Good? Not good enough? Bad? Or just never going to happen?

Jan 15, 21 2:20 pm  · 
 · 
square.

not good enough. i think a decent "compromise" would be canceling only debt from public schools, coupled with a plan/bill that assures free public university level education. i think a fair criticism/concern is canceling all debt (i'm a little more torn on this) would in a sense bail out private institutions that have been fairly predatory or negligent when it comes to tuition costs and administrative spending.

we're so far behind in this category compared to europe- people will bitch and moan with all of the stupid arguments that come with living in america, but before you know it, free public university will be no more controversial than free public secondary education.

4  · 
tduds

I haven't read much into the specifics of Biden's plan yet, but in general I think some debt cancelling is a good start. It needs to be part of a broader education reform in order to have any real impact, though. Tuition is out of control largely (not entirely, but largely) because of ~infinite guaranteed government money / ~infinite under-scrutinized / non-dischargeable loans. A one-time "reset" would definitely help a lot of people in my generation, but will do nothing to correct the problem that will continue to screw over younger generations.

3  · 
SneakyPete

It also needs to come with some sort of guarantee that universities won't just jack rates or fees because now kids get free uncle sam bucks.

3  · 

I've avoided looking into the subject of debt cancellation because I know it's one where I'll probably be unhappy regardless of the outcome. I like what tduds said above about it being a good start, but it will need to be coupled with broader reform in the educational system. 

Of course, my first reaction is to ask how this benefits me directly (selfish I know), and I'm curious if there has been any talk about not just loan forgiveness, but also a refund or tax break or something for those of us who have made sacrifices to pay back our loans? I've been paying my loans back since I graduated and have almost eliminated that debt. Is the cancellation talk only about currently held debt, or is there some aspect of this that can work retroactively to people who graduated in the past X number of years? Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy if my generation gets out from under this debt regardless, but it sucks to get nothing if you've "been doing everything right" to get out from under the debt anyway.

 · 
SneakyPete

It's just Biden paying the absolute minimum lip service to the demands of what he sees as the fringe of his constituency. It's business as usual, toss em scraps, shut them up, then continue as he was. Anyone who expects Joe fucking Biden to be some sort of revolutionary leader for change doesn't know what fucking country they live in. Fucking same shit, same fucking day.

1  · 
tduds

"Anyone who expects Joe fucking Biden to be some sort of revolutionary leader for change doesn't know what fucking country they live in." 

You're not wrong there but, in all fairness, the details I've seen so far are more progressive than anything we've seen to date from any past administration. It's a baby step, but at least a baby step in the right direction.

2  · 
x-jla

I don’t like socialism, but won’t complain either of he cancels some of my debt lol. Guess I’m a hypocrite too. Lol

 · 
square.

ea- the sentiment is fair, but an argument against what you’re saying is this meme: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EO_Fj-QX0AEz373.jpg:large

 · 
square.

ive also paid tens of thousands of dollars in debt, and would benefit greatly from broad cancellation.. but i think simple forgiveness of current debt in some form, similar to instituting a policy like social security that doesn’t retroactively benefit anyone, is for better or worse how progress works.

 · 

square. I agree completely and I’ve fought the tendency to phrase this as a would it be *fair* argument. I know it won’t be fair. I don’t think that would, or should, be the goal. Let’s save the people on the tracks, but also maybe not ignore the destruction it left before we diverted it. I don’t think it has to be one or the other. We can figure out both, but if not ... I’m good with just figuring out the current debt issue.

 · 
square.

right- wasn’t exactly what you’re saying to be fair, just a common argument against anti-debt cancellation. but i definitely agree that canceling debt without bigger reforms is a bad idea.

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

the idea that Gabard or the other duplicitous idiot Dan Crenshaw would potentially be viable alternative for President, is beyond laughable.

Jan 15, 21 4:00 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

Crenshaw is a terrible human being.

edit: Is someone suggesting that?

2  · 
x-jla

Y?

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

tduds, yes.

 · 
tduds

Here's a fun little story about Crenshaw's ridiculousness: https://twitter.com/mikeduncan/status/1349711147025489921 

I could dig up a dozen dumber and more outlandish things about him, this one just happened across my screen today.

 · 

I'm still laughing about Crenshaw voting by proxy against impeachment on Wednesday after he declared last year that voting by proxy was "cowardly."

4  · 
x-jla

I named Bernie, Tulsi, Yang, and Crenshaw. I don’t necessarily “agree” with all of them obviously. I think Bernie has bad ideas, but he’s in it for good reasons. I was talking about the fact that they all seem to have integrity and principles. Crenshaw seems like a good dude. Don’t know too much about him. Just heard him on some long interview and he seemed like he had integrity.

 · 
tduds

Crenshaw gives off a real "Jack Ripper in Dr. Strangelove" energy to me. Militaristic to a frightening level.

1  · 
x-jla

He’s a navy seal. Seems like some of the champion fighters that I’ve known. Strong and confident, but very calm and collective and will do anything to avoid having to kick someones ass outside the ring. Just my perception, but I don’t know too much about him other than hearing him on interviews. I actually really like Stacey Abrams too. I think she would have been a better vp pick. I’d prefer someone with heart than someone I agree with who’s a career climbing slime ball.

 · 
tduds

"and will do anything to avoid having to kick someones ass outside the ring." Dude read the twitter thread I posted. It's 100% him kicking ass (well, pretending to in a weird jingoistic action fantasy) to install Trump for a second term. Fuck him.

2  · 
square.

crenshaw’s back door comments making fun of aoc for being a service worker, while bragging about his military conquests was enough for me.

 · 
x-jla

The Twitter thread is pretty cringe. I wasn’t aware of his Chuck Norris like persona.

 · 
x-jla

Guess I’m a sucker for a good eye patch.

 · 
tduds

Gonna end this week on a positive note: https://www.washingtonpost.com...

In a move that signals the importance of science to the incoming administration, President-elect Joe Biden (D) announced Friday a plan to make the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy a Cabinet-level agency.

To head the office, Biden nominated Eric Lander, a mathematician and geneticist who helped map the human genome and founded the Broad Institute

Jan 15, 21 6:59 pm  · 
1  · 
archi_dude

That was the main way to beat the civilization PC game. All into science, enjoy 300 years of being the only society with nukes. Ah good times.

 · 
Koww

the libs need to get out of the cities and intermarry with the republitards. or maybe it doesn't need to be wholesale... there could be one prominent lib/maga power couple to create peace

Jan 15, 21 7:18 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

No thanks.

1  · 
proto

You just invented a fetish category — porn will never be the same

 · 
Wood Guy

Rule 34

1  · 
Koww

twitter dude + insane congresswoman from georgia?

 · 
x-jla

how will AOCs truth commission “rein in” on the media’s hyperbole regarding the threat of covid for people under 65?  According to the following study young people have a greatly exaggerated fear of covids affect on their health.  They have a 11x greater risk of being murdered, and a 30x greater risk of accidents and falls.  Their perception is obviously being shaped by media.  The study revealed that the younger the person, the greater exaggeration of risk they believe.  I don’t hear anyone demanding accurate reporting of covid risk/age.   



https://www.theblaze.com/conservative-review/horowitz-new-study-millennials-think-risk-covid-19-exponentially-true-threat

Jan 16, 21 11:34 am  · 
 ·  1
curtkram

we're wearing masks to slow the spread of the virus, not because we fear personal death.

2  · 
apscoradiales

yes, giving it to someone else or catching it myself. I tell people, mostly young idiots who don't wear them, fine, if you want to die, go right ahead, but don't take me with you.

 · 
x-jla

As we should, but that’s not the point of the study. They study shows that young people overestimate their own personal risk of dying by a factor of 3000.

 · 
bowling_ball

Oh no! So they'll reduce the case numbers in the meantime. And you know, like most of us adults, we realize that an infection may not cause too much trouble for us individually, but we can pass it along to others. This is where you show your true, selfish colours, because you apparently still refuse to understand that your actions have consequences for others (typical conservative / libertarian).

1  ·  1
x-jla

Incorrect. Typical Democrats and socialists, using propaganda and lies to affect behavior. This is why confidence in media and experts has eroded. If we treated this pandemic like it is, we could have protected the vulnerable and directed resources to them, all while reducing economic hardship and mental stress for the masses.

 · 
x-jla

Just making point as it pertains to “truth” and how we ought to “rein in” on falsehoods. Another is the exaggerated media coverage of police shootings, but already argued this one....

 · 
x-jla

Also- conservative / libertarian is a weird stew. These are not synonymous. And, selfishness is not a virtue of libertarianism. You have a layman’s view of these philosophies. Learn more

 · 
bowling_ball

After what Trump did on the 6th, you don't get to play this "whatabout" game any more. No. Not yours.

 · 
x-jla

I’m not following your logic. Trump does something bad therefore people like myself who didn’t even vote for trump can never criticize democrats again or something...nah, I’ll keep playing whatabout...

 · 
apscoradiales

x-jla,

Media has become highly polarised right around the World, not just in the States. Up here in Canada, I cannot mention the word "Israel" in our taxpayer funded media company, CBC, without getting my comment deleted. An example came up the other day, Canadian provinces have a horrible record of vaccinating people against Covid (due to health care responsibility being shared by the Federal government, and the provincial governments - both are totally incompetent), and I said how come Israel has already managed to vaccinate most of it people.

Well, next thing, CBC bans my comment! I cannot mention the word China either - comment gets deleted!

I used to trust BBC more than any other media in the World, but even they are slipping as of late. CNN is probably the worst in the World - they give North Korean media companies a good run for their money. Wonder who they will pick on once Trump is gone or will they blame all the ills of US on him for the next 50 years.

Jan 16, 21 12:41 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

You're really chasing the wrong villain, here.

1  · 
apscoradiales

who is the villain??? i'm late to this discussion, maybe i got it all screwed up.

 · 
SneakyPete

Trump and his cohort in the GOP. His sycophantic followers.
culture, created by the right, that allowed him to thrive.

 · 
randomised

Do you go complain on the CBC forum if your comment on the archinect forum gets removed? Just wondering...

1  · 
Non Sequitur

Aps, tbh, the cbc forums have been a disaster for years. I'm still surprised that they even open articles for comments at all. It was a fun place to throw inteligent snark out in the wild and see what kind of baffoon finds the time in their important lives to be offended but those days are long gone.

 · 
x-jla

CNN is definitely the worst.

 · 
x-jla

They saw fox ratings and probably tried to copy their formula

 · 
tduds

I don't know if this is common knowledge but the current president of CNN, Jeff Zucker, was largely responsible for green-lighting and building The Apprentice at his previous job as president of NBC Entertainment. In case you're looking for who to thank for all this.

 · 
tduds

Make no mistake CNN is 90% inane garbage, but the idea that a large swath of The Left lionizes CNN the way that a large swath of The Right lionizes Fox is hilarious, and says more about how The Right sees the world than anything else.

1  · 
x-jla

You are abnormally thoughtful and informed. Make no mistake, that average person gets ALL of their information from fox, cnn, Facebook, and whatever junk pops up in their iPhone newsfeed.

 · 
x-jla

“Think about how stupid the average person is, then realize that half of the people are even stupider that that” -George Carlin

 · 
tduds

I know zero people who talk about CNN the way anyone talks about Fox. I know a lot of people who talk about Fox as the pinnacle of truth and trust. Fealty skews to one side, for lots of reasons, is all I'm saying.

1  · 
x-jla

I don’t see the Sean Hannity draw. He’s such an annoying dick wad. Chris cuomo is probably as annoying as any cnn personality...but he’s still not even 1/10th as annoying as Sean Hannity. That guy is a professional shithead.

 · 
x-jla

Joe Rogan said it best, “Trump was an assholes asshole, he was their guy”. I feel same way about Hannity.

 · 
x-jla

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEL012tr5Q7BSx25GGoXxluUqGQgEKhAIACoHCAow2Nb3CjDivdcCMJ_d7gU?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen


Interesting.  I’m guessing this will wane over time.  If trumpism persists it’s going to be a hard act to follow.  Like when they change a sitcom actor but keep the character...



Jan 17, 21 11:30 am  · 
 · 
bowling_ball

Is that true though? You know that they say about statistics....

 · 
x-jla

Idk. I hope not.

 · 
tduds

Seems relevant here.

Jan 18, 21 12:40 pm  · 
4  · 
Non Sequitur

instructions unclear, mustard did not make this shoe easier to digest.

1  · 
x-jla

Interesting analysis being that all of this countries problems are blamed on someone who’s only been in office for 4 years, including problems that were on the decline over the past 4 years.

 · 
tduds

Wrong again.

1  · 
Non Sequitur

we talking about Bush sr. Jla?

2  · 
x-jla

I’m looking at the many enthusiastic Facebook posts, and it hits me, the people believe wholeheartedly in the establishment again.  They believe that the bureaucrats are the “resistance.”  Can’t people resist trumpism while also maintaining disdain for these cronies, of is the human tribal brain too limited?

Jan 19, 21 8:14 pm  · 
 · 
Wood Guy

The progressives I know, which are many, are extremely cautious and only slightly optimistic, and mostly as a reaction to the last four years. Biden has made several surprisingly good appointments and plenty of terrible ones. That's my view, and as far as I can tell the consensus among progressives. We are quite jubilant for the last four years to be over. The aware among us know there will be a reckoning in two years. Why are you spinning a tale that says otherwise?

3  · 
x-jla

When the entire government, big tech, corporations, media, and every other establishment are on the same page, to me that’s a sign that a big red white and blue dick is bout to f someone up the ass.

 · 
tduds

Personally, I'm excited to criticize the administration on matters of policy and not constant abject flailing pants-shitting evil. But that's just me.

3  · 
Rusty!

@wood guy. This is the best description about how I feel as well. We wanted jetpacks! But we will still settle for not having our walking legs chopped off. It still leaves me with extreme disdain for financial industry. Each Thursday new record unemployment numbers were released. Each Thursday stock market reached new highs. I guess world was always run by sociopaths. but now it's more transparent?

2  · 
square.

those who live in reality understand that things will significantly change in many ways. others, like the creator of this post, will live in their same delusions they've been repeating ad nauseum for the past four years. so, yes, in their minds nothing will change because they will never change.

keystone xl will be canceled day one. that's one significant accomplishment that i will momentarily celebrate.

1  · 
x-jla

I’d be very pleased if he canceled keystone. I do have some optimism on immigration and environmental stuff. Other than that, I feel he will offset positive changes with bad foreign policy and economic policies, but we will see I guess.

 · 
x-jla

But environmental issues are my number one concern hands down, and it’s not hard to be better than trump on that. I’ll give him props if he earns them.

 · 
x-jla

Square, I did vote for Obama 2x. I believed in him personally, but he disappointed on many issues. If Obama couldn’t do it, who can. He was the best politician and statesman. He wasn’t a renegade though. He let the deep state control him. I have no reason to believe that Biden will suddenly go against the grain at 75yo. And a lifetime in Washington.

 · 
x-jla

That’s the reality, unfortunately.

 · 
tduds

OoooOOOooOOoooo ThE dEeP StAtE

 · 
x-jla

^ This is exactly my original point. Because trump accurately acknowledged the “deep state” the liberals no longer believe it exists, despite the fact that the liberals were the ones who originally accurately acknowledged its existence and grip. Call it military industrial complex or whatever you want if that makes you feel better, but it’s not a conspiracy theory that deeply entrenched government officials, subcontractors, and bureaucrats sometimes operate and collide out of self interest, greed, or a number of other motives that don’t include serving the people...

 · 
tduds

I would like to hear your definition of what you consider 'The Deep State' to be. I've heard as many definitions as I've heard people use the term, if not more. Like a lot of things, there's some truth to the idea of an unelected source of power & hegemonic momentum in the US Gov't (and in US Corporate interests), but 1) A lot of people use The Deep State to mean something else entirely and 2) I don't necessarily agree that the concept is inherently bad.

 · 
x-jla

Government officials/agencies that collude in the shadows for a number of reasons that are either unethical, illegal, or unconstitutional...they operate outside of the law essentially

 · 
tduds

Be more specific. Give examples. That descriptions is vague to the point of being more useless than "The deep state"

 · 
x-jla

Ask Snowden

 · 
tduds

What's really scary is that that whole security apparatus was *voted for* and rah-rah'd by a lot of Americans during the Bush admin. No need for a shadowy cabal. They marched right up to the American people and the people said "Hell yeah!"

1  · 
x-jla

True.

 · 
x-jla

And it will happen again. This is exactly what I constantly warn about.

 · 
tduds

Credit where credit's due: In one of the Trump administrations final acts, something I firmly agree with.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/0...


Jan 20, 21 12:38 am  · 
8  · 
x-jla

I agree too. China has been getting away with human rights violations for too long, mostly because they are a big empire, and no one wants to start conflict with them. Hopefully Biden will continue to condemn such acts, while also leading by example and being better on domestic issues like immigration reform, policing, and prison reform.

1  · 
SneakyPete

broken clock, blind squirrel, etc

1  · 
apscoradiales

Don't hold your breath! Biden will be kissing China's ass all the way. And Iran's.

 ·  1
tduds

read the damn article. Or don't, it's in the headline: "..follows a Biden campaign statement with the same declaration."

1  · 
randomised

The world needs more kissing and less bombing!

 · 
SneakyPete

There's a massive difference between recognizing that China is a world economy who we have, like it or not, many critical relationships with and kissing its ass, but nuance, man; fuck nuance. Right?

1  · 
apscoradiales

Nuances when dealing with China and Iran?

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Naivety of a grand order.

1  · 
SneakyPete

good to see your transition to boomer is going well.

1  · 
SneakyPete

And, if you read (not so) carefully, you'll see that I was mocking YOU for a lack of nuance, not the government. But fuck reading comprehension when you can get in a cheap shot, right?

 · 
sameolddoctor

China and Iran are not the same lol. One is a competitor that wants to and has the power to belittle the US, and the other can be a valuable ally in a volatile region, that really has no potent power to harm the US.

 · 
tduds

Hey would ya look at that, the president changed and the policy was immediately reaffirmed. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2021/01/19/biden-nominee-antony-blinken-china-committing-genocide-uyghurs/4215835001/

1  · 
tduds

Obama had one of the best and most nuanced (separate) sets of policy towards China and (separately) Iran, but we weren't ready for it.

It's one of the few things I will give him huge credit for. Plenty to criticize about the Obama Admin, but he got these ones right (well, he tried to)

 · 
apscoradiales

Seriously?

 · 
tduds

This is a long, but very good, analysis of Obama's foreign policy in almost-retrospect (from 2015). It stuck in my mind as one of the better attempts to explain his administration's strategy, and I found it rather brilliant: https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/barack-obama-is-a-foreign-policy-grandmaster

Happy as always to entertain good faith suggestions to the contrary, if you've got em.

 · 
apscoradiales

From the linked article, "...Zbigniew Brzezinski, national security adviser to President Carter, who shattered the Soviet Empire...", HUH? How much credibility does the article or the author have if they say that?! I'll give you this, Obama gave the green light to kill OBL. Good!

 · 
tduds

I don't know a ton about Brzezinski. Please, enlighten us.

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Reagan took a lot of credit for shit he had nothing to do with. Iran Hostages, Middle East, etc...the heavy lifting was likely done by Carter; he actually stood for something, and wasn't a fraud like Ronnie Raygun.

 · 
SneakyPete

The work was done by Carter, but the credit? You might say it trickled down to Reagan.

2  · 
BabbleBeautiful

Now if we can get US to recognize the Armenian genocide that would be +++

1  · 
x-jla

I thought that they already did a few years back?

 · 
randomised


.

Jan 20, 21 1:02 pm  · 
1  · 
apscoradiales

"...sameolddoctor

...the other [Iran ]can be a valuable ally in a volatile region, that really has no potent power to harm the US..."

Only when Hell freezes over. Currently, Iran is the most dangerous nation to US, the region, and immediate World peace...until China grows a bit stronger.

Biden will have his heads full dealing with them. Lets see how he does; US and World security are at stake here.

Jan 20, 21 3:23 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

Currently, [the US] is the most dangerous nation to US, the region, and immediate World peace...until China grows a bit stronger.

2  · 
apscoradiales

Only if the Americans don't put US first!

"...The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them...", to paraphrase Marx. US should be careful, China is patiently waiting.


 · 
sameolddoctor

Iran's military capabilities, though strong have nothing on China. Most of Iran is still in a very "developing" stage. China is a whole another story, with tons of military, resolve and balls.

2  · 
BabbleBeautiful

apscoradiales, before I smack you upside the head I'd like to give you a chance to explain why you think Iran is so dangerous to the US.

 · 
tduds

The US policy towards Iran from 1953 to about 2012 (then again from 2017-2020) created the animosity we're now dealing with. aps is suggesting we return to that policy.

 ·  1
x-jla

Iran is on the way to become a nuclear power and will certainly be a strategic threat to the region. China is a much greater threat. They are a totalitarian Empire that is playing the long game of world domination. They aren’t trying to foolishly take over the world in a few years like the Nazis did, but make no mistake, they are planning on global or at least regional dominance.

 · 
x-jla

I’m a proponent of leading by example...we ought to stop trying to police the world...instead show the power of liberty and innovation by doing...and avoid getting into Economic or military entanglements with corrupt or oppressive regimes. That should be the American long game. We are really bad at long games though

 · 
x-jla

Here’s a start, stop putting kids in cages! Then we may have some moral currency

 · 
BabbleBeautiful

tduds, I'm only down-thumbing your comment because I don't agree with the idea of returning to that policy. This country needs to stop meddling/policing.

 · 
tduds

Agreed, bb.

 · 
x-jla

the highlight of the inauguration was definitely that classy young lady Amanda Gorman.  She did a great job.  

Jan 20, 21 4:48 pm  · 
2  · 

Feeling significantly lighter about the world today. And the Poet Laureate's poem was so, so damn good.

Jan 20, 21 5:52 pm  · 
8  · 
apscoradiales

tduds,

Zbigniew Brzezinski, was a Polish born American counselor to US President Johnson, and a National Security Advisor to President Carter.

By the fact that he was born in Easter Europe, plus some more education made him a good choice to be the advisor to Carter who wasn't really well versed in things communism or World politics in general.

He did alright, imo. But to claim he did away with communism in Soviet Union is more than naive. That claim you can assign to the Russian communists themselves as well as President Reagan and Pope John Paul II, a Pole himself. The commies finally realised that they could not compete with US economically and militarily - weapons race was taking way too much money and energy out of the Soviets. Gorbachev, Soviet President, began to pull the plug on communism with his Glasnost programme, Yeltsin finished it. But it took Reagan to light a fire under them, and probably the person who had the most to do with communism falling apart, from the outside was the Pope. You see, when push-comes-to-shove, religion, particularly Christianity plays a huge part in their lives. They never forget that God put them here in spite of Marx, Engels and Lenin preaching. In other words, they listened to the Pope, even though he was not the head of the Orthodox religion - predominant one in Russia - and the Pope told them, on several occasions, this communism stuff is not good! Drop that shit! So they did. The Pope and Reagan spoke to each other often trying to figure out how to do away with the communists not just in Soviet Union but right across Eastern Europe. I have great admiration for Reagan because of that, but even more that he put pride into Americans after they went through a stupid war in Vietnam and losing it in the end. USA was down and out after that war. Reagan made the Americans feel proud of themselves, their history and many great things that they have done. Frankly, had it not been for him, Americans and the rest of the World might very well be speaking Russian today. This is why I'm nervous with Biden being the President vis-a-vis China. Unless Biden realises China is up to no good, we may all be speaking Mandarin.

Roughly, that's what happened to the commies in Soviet Union, and who put them out of business...and more.

There is a famous story - true - that goes something like this; Gorbachev was looking for advice on what to do, and decided to go and see the Pope in the Vatican. Why, his wife asked. Because he is one of us (a Slav), replied Gorbachev.

Jan 20, 21 9:16 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

"But to claim he did away with communism in Soviet Union is more than naive." 

Good thing the article doesn't claim that, then.

 · 
tduds

The rest of what you said is similarly silly and reductive.

1  · 
randomised

Your political views are from the time people smoked in the office ;-)

 · 
Non Sequitur

Ooooooh, good old JP the Deuce.


 · 
randomised

"Your political views are from the time people smoked in the office ;-)"

Was meant for aps obvs

1  · 
apscoradiales

Alright tduds,

 "...Zbigniew Brzezinski, national security adviser to President Carter, who shattered the Soviet Empire..."

It's ok to disagree, but tell me which part I said is incorrect. You have a different version? I'll be happy to read it.

Jan 21, 21 9:12 am  · 
 · 
tduds

Read the article. It goes into detail.

 · 
tduds

Also please learn to use the reply function, you're mucking up the flow.

 · 
apscoradiales

"Reply" option doesn't always appear at my end. Dunno why.

1  · 
tduds

Bummer, sorry about that.

 · 
liberty bell

apscoradiales, are you using the mobile app for Archinect? It’s out of date. That might be why reply isn’t working?

1  · 
apscoradiales

windows laptop, google chrome app

 · 
SneakyPete

chrome app? you mean the browser? I use the browser and see the reply link just fine unless someone I have on ignore posts, then I need to go back to the first post in a thread for the reply link. If you use extensions, one of them might be removing the reply link.

 · 
apscoradiales

yeah, browser. I don't have anyone on ignore list, I don't think. wouldn't know how to set one up, lol. sometimes I see the reply, sometimes I do not.

 · 
x-jla

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9170237/amp/Protesters-gather-damage-Democratic-headquarters-Oregon.html


Amazing how little attention this got in the media in light of the capitol riots...on Inauguration Day too.  Almost as if media is  biased.   



Jan 21, 21 9:52 am  · 
 · 
tduds

It's all over the news in Oregon, where it's relevant. Elsewhere? Less so. Maybe you're watching the wrong news.

 · 
tduds

On a more "oh, you" note: Maybe it's because you're expecting a handful of angry idiot Portland kids smashing windows to be treated on an equal level as thousands of people from around the country invading the US Capitol Building at the behest of the sitting President. Dumb expectation, if you ask me.

 · 
tduds

Media is biased, but this ain't it.

 · 
apscoradiales

Just another day in USA, as of late. Country is highly polarised as nobody listens to each other.

 · 
x-jla

Phleeeeash. If this were exactly the same but they had Trump flags it would be top story nationally

1  · 
tduds

Why do you always resort to nonexistent hypotheticals after your attempt at a point using reality fails? Just take the L and go back to work, man.

 · 
x-jla

Because it can be reasonably assumed that this would be covered differently had it been far-right wackos.

 · 
tduds

Things in my head are, to me, self-evident. But for some bizarre reason people ask me to justify them. I guess it's because they aren't in my head, having lived the life I lived, and so there are things I saw or did or know that maybe they didn't. "Reasonably assuming" is only as reasonable as what you know and what you've seen. Refusing to explain is suspicious, at best, and condescending, at worst.

 · 
x-jla

If right wingers did same you’re saying it would not be top msm story?

 · 
tduds

I'm not saying anything. I'm asking you to make a case for something you believe to be true. If you can't make the case, maybe it's not as true as you want it to be. If you refuse to make the case, you can't really fault people for dismissing you.

 · 
tduds

Anyway this happened and, as far as I'm aware, it wasn't a top story. https://www.thestate.com/news/politics-government/article248555890.html

 · 
Wood Guy

The Portland protests made the news, they just weren't very newsworthy.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/portland-police-arrest-rioters-damage-democratic-party-office/story?id=75398433,

https://www.wsj.com/articles/inauguration-day-protests-in-portland-seattle-turned-violent-11611260877.

Any story that leads with blaming Antifa, the right's imaginary boogeyman, is not worth reading as far as I'm concerned. For example, the Daily Mail article in the OP.

1  · 
x-jla

“Imaginary”. Because sometimes people all show up in a place wearing the same clothes, with the same logos, spontaneously...QAnon on the other hand is the lefts imaginary boogeyman

 · 
Wood Guy

I'm not saying there aren't protests, or that I think they are righteous. I just have not heard anybody be able to name a leader or organizer of the supposed Antifa group.

1  · 
x-jla

I’m not sure they have an organized structure. That doesn’t really matter. A loose group with a shared ideology can easily organize this day and age with social media, without a centralized structure. The capitol riots proved this

 · 
apscoradiales

"...tduds

Read the article. It goes into detail..."

No "Reply" option, so I'll start another thread;

I did read the whole article. Now tell me your side. I'm keen to hear it.

Jan 21, 21 10:43 am  · 
 · 
randomised

“a handful of angry idiot Portland kids”




Jan 21, 21 10:48 am  · 
 · 
x-jla

The msm curates stories to push certain narratives. Not that the stories they choose aren’t true, just that their focus creates a warped perception of reality. It’s like Hollywood making movies about only Italian Americans that are in the mafia...true stories, but the focus creates a curated perception of Italian Americans. This is no different. “Truth” can be propaganda without having to lie.

 · 
tduds

Why are you using a screenshot from the largest newspaper in the state to make a point about the media ignoring this protest?

2  · 
tduds

Again all the things you're saying are true and also this is a very poor example of the things you're saying.

1  · 
x-jla

For the record. I don’t fault antifas embrace of anarchy. I support anarchy as an ideal. I fault their misinterpretation of anarchy, and their embrace of violence as a tool. I think a technologically and socially advanced society, something closer to a type 1 civilization, will inevitably become anarchistic because individuals will be civil enough to not require control. Their movement is counterproductive to liberty because it necessitates the authority that they want to remove.

 · 
BabbleBeautiful

Perhaps you or anyone shouldn't be using MSM or any single news source as a way to understand reality.

Any more therapy advice and I'll have to charge.

3  · 
tduds

For the record, this isn't "Antifa", nor is Antifa "embracing" any form of "anarchy". 

The group most likely behind yesterdays events in Portland was PDXYLF. They've been plastering the city with "J20" protest posters & graffiti since November. Of course there's plenty of overlap between the people who show up for protests, and frequently the most destructive elements are the same small group only superficially aligned (& at times not at all aligned) with the protest leaders. But the location, leadership (or lack thereof), tactics, and goals differ. And recognizing these differences is paramount in understanding the events from day to day, month to month. 

To conflate BLM, Antifa, Black Bloc, YLF, or Sunrise, or Extinction Rebellion, into one nebulous "leftist" movement is to reduce the truth to a useless binary. To do this while whining about the lack of "truth" in media is more than a little embarrassing. 

It's extremely frustrating to live near Portland and have to constantly put up with the falsehoods constantly thrown at me by people who have never been to Oregon and would have trouble locating the city on a map of the US, much less the location of the protests on a map of Portland. It's not just you, so excuse me if my disdain for that spills over into this response.

In short, you're out of your element. I'm disengaging from this one. I know you won't, so... cheers.

2  · 
x-jla

Guess the Anarchy symbols are just for shits and giggles.

 · 
x-jla

Tduds: leftist require a nuanced analysis and they are not organized. Also Tduds: QAnon Nazis everywhere!!!

 ·  1
tduds

I give you so much more good faith than you've ever deserved and you act like a complete asshole in response, every time. Fuck off.

2  · 
x-jla

Well, we can break down the capitol riots by the various right wing groups involved. “These aren’t trump supporters they are boogaloo boys, proud boys, etc”. “They don’t support fascism they support xyz.” “This one supports this, that one supports that”...etc etc etc. when it comes to the left you apply nuance. When it comes to the right “NAZIS”. Why?

 · 
x-jla

I’ll answer for you. Despite the 100million killed by far left politics you are more scared of the far right because school has done a shitty job of explaining the horrors of communism, and a decent job explaining the horrors of fascism. It’s also more fashionable. Pound for pound they are both not good.

1  · 
SneakyPete

He's a tenacious piece of mold, I'll give him that.

2  · 
tduds

My god you're back to this old pap again? You really do only have one point. Like a god damn broken record for the last... what's it been now... 4? 5 years? How many thousands of posts? Fuuuuuck offff.

1  · 
tduds

You're going back on ignore for a few weeks.

2  · 
randomised

Wait a minute! I posted that screenshot...just to point out that this local news item has global reach, it was posted on a middle of the road news/opinion site in the Netherlands about the inauguration. I reposted the remark of a handful angry idiot kids as those "antifa!" shouting "kids" in black look quite intimidating to me, no need to downplay im(h)o :-)

1  · 
tduds

Whoops. Still... I see a relatively small and relatively young group there.

1  · 
randomised

I can't really see numbers or age, they merge into one because of their standard Antifa all-black dresscode, hoodies and masks, much more intimidating than the Dukes of Hazzard freakshow that stormed the Capitol.

 · 
SneakyPete

more intimidating? oh, then they're obviously worse, then. Since it's a game, we're keeping score, and the better shitty people get to win... what exactly?

1  · 
tduds

Rereading the above I realize that my attempt to explain reality might have come off as a tacit condoning of what happened. Just want to chime back in once more to say I definitely don't. My anger above was directed not at the condemnation of violence, but at the misconstruing (deliberately or simply out of naivete) of who was involved, for lazy political "gotcha" points. 

There was a lot about the Portland protests I supported, but lately it seems like they've lost direction and the real changemakers & organizers have moved on. What's left is a largely aimless angry Lord of the Flies esque group of (mostly white middle class) Gen Z'ers who've decided to hijack the momentum to fuck some shit up. It's dumb & self-defeating & I hope they get over it soon, there's real progressive work to be done.

1  · 
archi_dude

Lol "protestors." Dont need much more evidence that the media is just a propaganda machine when there is essentially a mainstream media black out on Portland and Seattle left wing riots and extreme focus on a right wing inauguartion attack that never even materialized. I'm a little concerned that the "anti-fascists" on here are indifferent to the fact that US journalism is pretty much just a propaganda tool for one political party.
Anyone truly against fascism would be concerned.

 ·  3
tduds

Don't you start.

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

"...extreme focus on a right wing inauguartion attack that never even materialized..."

I'm guessing it never materialized, despite their attempts only a week before, had something to do with 25k troops, with live ammo? 

aside from that, you're another waste.

 · 
archi_dude

Why isnt there the same response to courthouses and government buildings being looted and vandalized if it's those on the left? Im all for the build up in washington. That's what you do to deter crime. So why arent we doing the same to other just as extreme groups? Why do they get a pass becuase of their position on a made up field of right or left. They are violent and attacking communities. Build up and support the police and create strict enforcement of law.

 ·  1
SneakyPete

"That's what you do to deter crime" ... Yeah, if you want to live in a police state. You know, like a fascist state? Otherwise you need to look at the root cause. But the real root cause, not the racist ones that get trotted out when people mention "root cause."

1  · 
SneakyPete

Oh, and a preemptory fuck off, because I know that won't change your dumb fucking mind. On ignore you go.

2  · 
randomised

“ more intimidating? oh, then they're obviously worse, then.”

No not worse, just different. Some go out of their way to hide their identity when they commit their crimes, the Dukes of Hazzard-crowd goes out protesting in Halloween party dress and broadcasts their idiocy all over the internet...

 · 
x-jla

They are all like 130 lbs.

 · 
liberty bell

Biden’s been President for over 24 hours and I’ve only seen ONE tearful video of a QAnon-er crying about the lack of storm. I need more.

Jan 21, 21 12:22 pm  · 
2  · 
Non Sequitur

Well, in those 24hrs, I've got more work done than in the last week or so. Coincidence?

 · 
tduds

You know, I think I'm finally sick of explaining reality to (who I'm assuming are) 40-something white dudes. This thread isn't really about "Politics" anymore, if it ever was. Maybe this is what people think politics is now, but it ain't for me. I tried. Cheers.

Jan 21, 21 9:08 pm  · 
3  · 
Non Sequitur

yes, but have you tried harder? Don't give up, you can do this!

3  · 
archi_dude

You mean a "reality" that 51.3% of Americans agree with. If you filled up a room of people and every other person you met had a different view and you held a firm belief that all of them were just idiots becuase they didnt believe what you did. Well...you sound like a really silly person.

 ·  1
tduds

Depends on the belief. Matter of opinion? Fine. Relligion? Also fine. Whether or not certain people deserve to live? You're an asshole, but maybe not an idiot. That a secret cabal of child-eating satanists run the world? Yeah you're a fucking idiot then.

2  · 
tduds

Nothing more fun then people making up shit I didn't say to make their lazy as fuck points against me seem valid. I'm gonna go make dinner and enjoy my life...

1  · 
tduds

Non: is that hard enough?

2  · 
Non Sequitur

getting better. Needs practice tho... and liquor. Can't let those baby eating wankers win.

1  · 

Obviously I’m not the target audience because I’m still in my 30s, but I always appreciated your contributions. But I agree that needing to explain reality to refute bad faith arguments gets old pretty quick. I was always hopeful for even the faintest hint at remorse or embarrassment for being so easily taken to task, but some people are beyond self reflection it seems. I’ll say that the ignore button has made this last week a lot easier to bear. It does suck though when you see someone made a comment in a thread but you can’t see it because it’s a reply to a hidden comment, or so I assume when I can’t find anything new, but I can manage. Hope dinner is good.

2  · 
Non Sequitur

Homer : Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.

1  · 
tduds

2021 Mantra:

.

2  · 
SneakyPete

" gets old pretty quick" I dunno, you guys lasted a full month longer than I did trying to get humanity from these freaks.

1  · 

Just because I was participating didn't mean it wasn't boring.




^there's a sexual innuendo joke in there for anyone that wants it.

4  · 
x-jla

Being woke and being awake are 2 completely different things.

 · 
x-jla

If you use

 · 
x-jla

If you use the ignore button so that you don’t have to see the thoughts of other people that disagree with, you are the problem. That’s some old lady shit.

 · 
BabbleBeautiful

No X, the problem is that the conversation is not going anywhere. It's like a closed spiral with a height differential of about 1cm. Put another way, you keep puking like a cat that doesn't know to eat correctly, and tduds is just cleaning it up, day-after-day.

3  · 
x-jla

More like you are all in a cult and you are so convinced that your narrow perspective is right that you get mad at different opinions. Fact is fact, but 99% of the shit we talk about is opinions.

 · 
tduds

Opinions are conclusions based on facts. Conclusions drawn from incorrect information are incorrect opinions. My goal here has rarely been to challenge opinions, but to challenge the information on which they're based. I'm also rarely trying to change the minds of the ideologues I'm responding to. I'm trying to convince the audience of my viewpoint. It seems to have mostly worked, and no new topics have come up in a while, so I think my work is done for now.

2  · 
x-jla

I posted an inconvenient reality- the threat of far left violence. You and others constantly try to deny or minimize this threat. At the same time, you aren’t shy to acknowledge the threat of far right violence, rightfully so. I’m just confused as to why this is the case? You are either blind to your own bias, or you are playing lower-level political games. Even if you do believe that far-right violence is a greater threat, which it may be, you are strategically naive to think that the rhetoric and normalization of violence on the left isn’t exacerbating the rhetoric and violence on the right. You haven’t convinced anyone.

 · 
BabbleBeautiful

Tell me something: Do you believe you have superior and nuanced comprehension of a reality that affects all of us? A reality, to paraphrase Philip K Dick, is everything that remains after you stop believing in things.

2  · 
x-jla

That doesn’t make sense.

 · 
x-jla

The “reality” I described is not derived from some superior comprehension, but common sense. You all must have lived very sheltered lives if you don’t understand that if one group becomes more aggressive it drives the opposition to also become more aggressive. If you don’t see this it’s not because you lack superior comprehension, it’s because you lack standard comprehension.

 · 
BabbleBeautiful

Oooh ok.

 · 
tduds
BabbleBeautiful

It doesn't make sense? Come on, but it's common sense.

 · 
x-jla

Glad you were able to self diagnose, tduds

 · 
tduds

.

1  · 
apscoradiales

"...25k troops, with live ammo..." in Free World capital, no less!

WTF has happened to US?

Jan 21, 21 9:54 pm  · 
1  · 
x-jla

Listen to Tulsi Gabbard on JRE today. They discussed pretty much everything on this page. She is one of the few people that speaks truth and gets it.

 · 
randomised

Waf happened? They’re simply applying their foreign policy domestically...

 · 
x-jla

The American people don’t have much say in the government’s foreign policy. They do as they please.

 · 
randomised

I only meant that now they’re applying their foreign policing/policy at home...

1  · 
x-jla

Oh, read that wrong.