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Politics Central

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square.

The polls could be wrong. But that may help Biden, not just Trump.

this guy called 2016 correctly (and studies district level polling, which was v bad for clinton and is not the case for biden); he's calling biden.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politi...

Oct 29, 20 11:58 am  · 
 · 
randomised

grasping at straws...

 · 
randomised
randomised

Seeing how people get attacked for simply wearing a MAGA hat I can’t believe all people will openly admit on the phone during a survey that they are considering voting Trump. The social pressure in certain parts of society to stay in line and follow the politically correct narrative (on the surface that is) will (unfortunately) once again surprise people. Even here on archinect you can see that anyone who won’t vote Biden is treated as a kind of leper and somehow comes under attack. We’ll see, just a few more days...

 · 
square.

Seeing how people get [threatened by militia to be kidnapped and murdered] for [challenging trump] I can’t believe all people will openly admit on the phone during a survey that they are considering voting [Biden].

it's easy to play the speculation game, and one can speculate about shy biden voters just as easily as shy trump voters. it's impossible to quantify these things. so, we have two analysts who called 2016 correctly and see entirely different realities. like you said, we'll see.

i'm going off the fact that polls have never been wrong enough to close this large of a gap. maybe they will be, but based on history, if these results hold, it's incredibly unlikely.

https://twitter.com/baseballot...

 · 
randomised

There's only a few of those, can't honestly compare them. But let's wait and see if there are hidden secret Biden voters out there, that will be the gamechanger this time.

 · 
square.

here's a more clear one; of course we know what happened in 2016, and the predictions about the electoral college were wrong, but the popular vote was pretty accurate:

https://twitter.com/PpollingNu...

2  · 
tintt

I saw a meme that said the first "fact checker" was Satan and you should not give up your "faith" for him. Hitting new heights with the cray-cray in America!

Oct 29, 20 3:26 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla
square.

did you see this leaked internal report from the wallstreet journal? apparently the news side is in open revolt about, what they call, the baseless claims of the opinion side. i guess the paper is at a crossroads as their readership is dwindling. i found it interesting.

"In July, the same month the report is dated, more than 280 staffers at the Journal and sister newsroom Dow Jones signed a letter to its publisher calling for clearer distinctions between the opinion and news. “Opinion’s lack of fact-checking and transparency, and its apparent disregard for evidence, undermine our readers’ trust and our ability to gain credibility with sources,” the letter said."

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/amberjamieson/internal-wall-street-journal-report

 · 

(New suggested) Social norm: When you post a link, give a sentence or two to set it up.

2  · 
tduds

In light of all of this information I have decided not to vote for Hunter Biden.

 · 
tduds

Seriously though I keep skimming these stories and I cannot for the life of me figure out why any of it matters. They're just tossing out a quote and saying it's proof of... something bad. But never really making a convincing case as to why. It all feels very flimsy and so overly-convoluted.

 · 
x-jla

Yeah, can’t see how Joe is linked. There are several crackheads from the old hood that also got millions from Ukraine and the CCP.

 · 
x-jla

This podcast is great, and sums it up perfectly. It’s 4 hours, but the first 30mins gives a good breakdown of our current status.

 · 

Get excited! Tomorrow's the day we all find out we need to wait longer to know the results!

https://www.nytimes.com/intera...

Nov 2, 20 11:39 am  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

I'd like to take this moment to remind all Americans that the Canadian border remains closed. Also, it's already snowing.

2  · 
x-jla

Tomorrow is the day that we will find out that either one half of the country is dumb or the that they other half of the country is dumb.

 ·  1

NS - would you be willing to sponsor my wife, dog, and I for Canadian citizenship? Both of them are adorable and awesome. I'd be able to assist you with snarky architectural comments . ..

1  · 
randomised

“ or the that they other half of the country is dumb” ...

 · 
x-jla

*or that the...That’s what happens when I type fast and don’t proof read

 · 
square.

i think i know which half are the that they

 · 
x-jla

Anyone who believes that Biden will better the country in substance, not just phony politeness, is pretty dumb. He was vp for 8 years under a better and younger politician...and together they just created an expanded surveillance state, more wars, a shitty HC policy, etc...but he doesn’t talk with his hands and make fun of people...so the snowflakes won’t melt...I don’t understand how anyone can be this naive one way or the other. I would have been more hopeful for the future if we had a low voter turnout. The enthusiasm is not in sync with the deals...reminds me of Black Friday shoppers.

 ·  2

don't need an election to tell us half the country is dumb

 · 
x-jla

Lots of suckers for advertising...that’s all.

 · 
square.

even the tiniest bit of digging into climate policies reveals the indisputable fact that biden will be better for the environment- even if he were to simply reinstate obama's fuel efficiency standards (which he will go beyond), your dumb argument is proved wrong.

i don't mind someone stating the opinion that nothing will change, but arguing that people who think a biden presidency will change things, at all, are dumb, is a strange position that sets the bar for proving you wrong incredibly low.

 · 
x-jla

^southpark song

 · 
randomised

It’s not that if you vote for the “right” candidate you are suddenly not dumb...most people are dumb, the word you’re looking for is stupid. People can’t help being dumb but stupidity is usually preventable...

 · 
x-jla

square, no doubt that the Dems in general are better for the environment. I agree with that. And no doubt that the repubs are better for the economy.

 · 
x-jla

It’s not that one is dumb for choosing x vs y. My point is that anyone who approaches such a rigged choice with enthusiasm is dumb. We should all be very upset that the cream doesn’t rise anywhere near the top. The Dems had some pretty good candidates, Yang specifically, but the system was rigged. We are all being force fed two corrupt parties. Yeah, we have to eat something, but maybe let’s not do it with such enthusiasm. So much flare! It reinforces the efficacy of their mental coup.

 · 
square.

agreed, i didn't vote biden in the primary. but settle for biden or go down in flames with trump; i'll take settling

 · 
tduds

I wouldn't use the word "rigged" but I think we'd find most in here agree that the "enthusiasm" is misplaced.

2  · 

I've been asking my closest friends this question, and while you people are no where near my closest friends (no offense), I'll ask you random wankers on the internet too ...

What election results will you be ok with? I'm not asking what you really want to happen, though you can share if you want to. I'm asking what sort of middle ground you will be ok with if the election doesn't turn out the way you'd like it.

For my part, I could live with Trump winning the presidency, but only if Dems win the Senate and keep the House. Is that likely? I have no idea, but it helps keep me a little less worried about the results. 

Nov 2, 20 12:48 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

Honestly, I’ll be happy regardless of who wins if the country doesn’t devolve into violence. I’ve never genuinely been this nervous about the results of an election. I’m very worried that a Biden win will be viewed as a coup, and the trump people will cause violence, or even more so, that a Trump win will be viewed as a coup and the left will cause violence. I’m not afraid of my fellow citizens, but the bad actors in government that may use such unrest to impose tyrannical measures of some kind. I think the police protests and riots have set a tone, and the divisions are not logical anymore, but purely tribal. I’ll be happy if general unity and cool heads prevail.

 · 
x-jla

This election is not about policy, it’s about two tribes fighting for a false sense of control. This is about people feeling deeply disoriented and alienated in this modern technological reverting to comfortably primitive instincts

1  · 
x-jla

*technological world

 · 
axonapoplectic

Biden win there will likely only be a few small pockets of violence. If trump declares victory before votes are counted and/or refuses to concede there will be massive protests - but I think we will end up being ok. If Trump wins we’ve got a huge problem - not only will there be massive protests, but it will also embolden right wing extremists to turn even more violent toward protestors. The fact that they’re building a massive wall around the White House is not a good sign.

 · 
x-jla

Agree.

 · 
archi_dude

I'm fine with either. It is sad to see our elections being about what outcome will produce less rioting. Man we devolved. However weve seen both sides riot this year. The right during the April lockdowns, which entirely consisted of innocent flag waving and the BLM protests which consisted of looting and burning of neighborhoods. You can guess who I'm more concerned with not getting their way. Ha! And the right is the fascists...right....

 ·  2
tduds

"which entirely consisted of innocent flag waving" 

Weird lookin' flags they got here.Armed protesters demonstrate against Covid-19 lockdown at Michigan capitol  | US news | The Guardian

 · 

If the election and the results are seen as legitimate and the participants agree to a abide by the results in a peaceful way, I don't think their followers will protest all that much. And when they do, it will probably be peaceful. 

Unfortunately, one of the candidates has been sowing seeds of doubt in the process usually contingent on if he wins, it's legitimate ... and if he loses, it's because of fraud or an illegitimate process. 

Also unfortunately, the party that candidate belongs to has also been trying to disenfranchise voters. The result is that both sides will call foul if their candidate loses. One side because they've been manipulated to distrust the system even if it is legitimate, and the other because it is apparent that the process had been rigged against them. 

It's probably too late to expect for peace after the election. I'll hope for it, but I don't expect it.

 · 
tduds

Wave that flag all the way to the governor's house. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer_kidnapping_plot

 · 
x-jla

Oh, I agree 100%. I tuned into msnbc to see what bs they were peddling. They were freaking out about highways being blocked by trump supporters...hmmmm where did we see this before....hmmm...couldn’t believe they were saying it with a straight face.

 · 
tduds

The president said this crime was good because it targeted his opponent. Explain in your own words why this isn't fascist. https://twitter.com/mcbyrne/status/1322566702048153600

 · 
x-jla

You mean the mostly peaceful kidnappers Tduds?

 · 
tduds

I seem to remember folks getting real upset about blocking highways when black folks did it. https://news.yahoo.com/trump-supporters-spend-weekend-clogging-201629986.html

1  · 
tduds

"I tuned into msnbc to see what bs they were peddling." Well there's your problem.

1  · 
tduds

The reaction is different because the action is different. 

Folks blocked highways for BLM to get people to pay attention to ignored violence against black bodies. I supported the action because I supported the cause. But if you're against that you can't say "I'm fine with violence against black bodies" so you make it abstract, you make it about the inconvenience, you say "I support you but it's the principle of your actions. You can't block highways." 

Then some dumb motherfuckers go out and block a highway cause they want their cult leader to stay president, and all those people who were so high & mighty a bout the sanctity of highways are suddenly nowhere to be found. Because they were never really against the action, they were against the cause.

But as soon as somebody points out that the dumb motherfuckers are dumb motherfuckers, you can come back with BUT YOU WERE OK WHEN BLACK LIVES MATTER DID IT.

Apples and Airplanes, my man.

 · 
tduds

(*airplanes. because oranges are a lot like apples, when you think about it)

 · 
tduds

It's pretty annoying that I've had the same ten or so conversations so many fucking times in the past few years that I can cough up a few hundred word counterpoint with so little effort. Get some new arguments, dorks.

 · 
SneakyPete

Thanks for your analysis. Local police can definitely always be trusted to get the facts right.

 · 
SneakyPete

Why was the truck where it was, again?

 · 
SneakyPete

Oh, right. For the same reason Kyle Rittenhouse decided to go play soldier in a different state.

 · 
archi_dude

Tduds, the Biden supporter that ran their car into the Trump supporter? So the Trump supporters werent stopping traffic, they were driving with flags and someone ran into their car becuase they didnt like it. Okay so proved my point with that one. Then was the state building looted, burned or were cops dragged and firebombed? No as well...so. yeah proved point again.

 · 
SneakyPete

I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you. TEACHER HE HIT ME!

1  · 
SneakyPete

Hey, I can pull up shit too! Remember the murder they tried to pin on protestors when it was right wing boogaloo morons?

 · 
archi_dude

Sneaky can you point out the part of the clip that shows the truck doing any if that?

 · 
x-jla

Tduds, remember “2 wrongs doesn’t make a right?” The trump cars are annoying, the looters and rioting was more violent. The cult of trump or the cult of leftism...same. If you really believe that the rioting and looting was because of police brutality then you are missing something. The peaceful protests yes, not the widespread unrest that latched onto it. The “cause” served as a shield of virtue to do the things that angry, bored, and hateful people like todo...

 · 
SneakyPete

Video is not in any way conclusive, as the jockeying for position is not shown as the camera pans away. Regardless, the truck had no reason to be there except to provoke. Regardless of the human who broke the law, the truck should not have been there. If you're only interested in finding out who was in the wrong lane, you have willfully missed the point.

 · 
SneakyPete

I had to turn x-lax back on to reply, and holy fucking shit the whataboutism and false equivalency and hard pulling to force everything to fit in his world view is nauseating, even for a glance.

 · 
x-jla

^^^Says the guy who trys to fit everything into his world view.

 · 
archi_dude

So the truck, literally flying a flag and staying in its lane deserves it because it has no reason to be there but to provoke. So with that logic you can side swipe anyone with opposing political views...does this theory of yours extend to football team flags? This could get dicey.

 · 
SneakyPete

Willful ignorance has never looked good on you, dude. But you do you.

 · 
x-jla

I’m pretty sure that’s considered assault to hit someone’s car, or as some would call it, mostly peaceful assault.

 · 
tduds

Everyone tries to fit everything into their world view. It's a very basic function of our evolutionary cognition.

 · 
tduds

edit: I had a whole thing here but, nevermind. Bedtime.

 · 
Dank Gehry

"I want a suit" —Brick

Nov 2, 20 1:50 pm  · 
1  · 
x-jla

.


Nov 2, 20 2:33 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Election polls are worthless. Polls do nothing except create news that should not exist, and cause people to vote for the wrong reasons. What do polls generate except stress and empty hot air from a closet industry that need not exist?

Nov 2, 20 6:51 pm  · 
2  ·  1
tduds

Similarly, election night coverage is bad and no one should watch it.

3  · 
tduds

An election night conclusion to the election is a fabrication by and for television news. It creates a "Sports Championship" narrative that runs counter to - and this year may actively undermine - fair democratic process .

4  · 
x-jla

If it appears that trump is winning, I’ll bet you that he declares victory before midnight. Once he does, even if the tally hasn’t been fully counted, and the true win goes to Biden, any attempt to challenge his narrative will look like a coup in the eyes of his more hardline followers.

1  · 
x-jla

On the other hand, if trump ends up winning, the Dems will likely not take the loss without declaring voter suppression, Russia, etc. either way, this isn’t going to end well or fast.

 · 

As a matter of fact, even if dems win they can claim voter suppression. Republicans have made sure of that.

 · 
x-jla

Examples?

 · 
bowling_ball

x-jla do you not watch or read the news? Where have you been the last decade?

2  · 
x-jla

I’m not denying that it exists, just can’t make such claims in this climate without concrete proof.

 · 
tduds

Strike that, reverse it.

 · 
randomised

All that talk about Russia or China, the States have meddled in plenty of elections over the last couple of decades, have ousted democratically chosen officials all over the globe and now, because the establishment's candidate might not win (again) it is suddenly Russia and/or China interfering and stealing the elections or something...boohoo crocodile tears. Perhaps there's a lesson in here...

 · 
x-jla

China wants their boy Biden to win

 ·  2
square.

i strongly disagree with the notion that the polls are worthless. are they flawed? yes. but what would be the alternative? the truth is while imperfect, they are the best tools we have to understanding elections, scientifically, in real time; otherwise, we'd be inundated with gross speculation. think xjlax 24/7.

2016 was off, but if you look at it closely, it was actually pretty accurate in terms of popular vote. and 2018 was even more accurate. the key is to manage expectations relative to data that will never be 100% accurate. but there is still a lot of useful information polls provide.

frankly i'm surprised at how many educated folks are willing to throw empiricism out the door, but i guess it's a sign of the times.

2  · 
randomised

some [polls] are more equal than others!

 · 
tduds

"2016 was off" Not by as much as people think.

2  · 
SneakyPete

Why do we need to *understand* elections? They are not supposed to be a set of rules to dissect and manipulate, they are supposed to gather peoples personal opinion. Polls demonstrably do NOT assist in this and instead create stress, chaos, and LOTS OF CASH for people who do not deserve it.

1  · 

I "liked" SPs statement but I also agree with square. that the polls aren't completely worthless. I do think they create a news item that doesn't really mean much to the average news consumer, except to make them feel like they are not alone in their views (which they probably didn't need anyway). I think they get over used and under analyzed by the general news media and I think it a backwards type of way they probably further polarize people and feed the "us vs. them" narrative. That's why I don't really like them used as much for "news." 

For the empirical, scientific-understanding-of-the-electorate purpose ... yes, I do think they are helpful. However, in order to really use them properly for that, it is probably beyond most people's expertise. That type of analysis doesn't usually lend itself to a quick soundbite for cable news.

1  · 
SneakyPete

EA, as usual, has written a much more nuanced explanation of my emotional screed.

My opinion has little to do with 2016. I do not care if polls are right or wrong, I want to get to a place where the next election cycle isn't in the news the day after the fucking inauguration ceremony is over. Polls cause the opposite of that wish.

2  · 
square.

i think use (or misuse) of the polls causes this- but i very much agree with the sentiment.

1  · 
SneakyPete

Today I learned I use the word screed wrong.

 · 
tduds

Like I said elsewhere, the whole media craze around elections has 'sportsified' politics. The election day has to be the big finale, and polls have to exist so they can "keep score". It's all for and by television, and no one should watch it.

3  · 

Say what you will about the sportsification of politics and polling, but I just wasted a good portion of my afternoon playing with the interactive map at 538

270 to win is fun too, but doesn't react the same way as 538's map which pulls information from their election model (based on polling data) to update the likelihood of other states. Gotta do something to pass the time.

 · 
tduds

Maps are fun.

 · 

^ I actually turned on Fox News to verify those weren't photoshops. I don't claim to have verified them all, but the ones I saw were legit.

 · 
tduds

Really fucking sick of litigating every data point in a thousands of points long set as if they're isolated incidents. Humans are pattern seeking animals. It's one of our greatest advantages. At this point, if you can't see the pattern, you're intentionally looking away. I'm done litigating the points, but I'm not done pointing the ones who are looking away from the patterns. You don't deserve the comfort. 

Nov 3, 20 1:39 am  · 
1  · 
x-jla

Like you can’t see the pattern in the mostly peaceful rioting, mob intimidation, etc...ok

 ·  1
x-jla

How many hundreds of videos of protesters harassing people and forcing them to raise a fist, bashing people’s car windows, beating people up, fire bombing people’s stores, etc....for you to “see the pattern”.

 ·  1
square.

how many videos do you need to see of cars harassing campaign buses, grieved white men walking around the streets with military rifles, and attempted plots against sitting dem governors? violence against property is one thing; violence against people is always worse. of course there is violence on the left, but what we see on the right should terrify you at least equally. your blindness on this one is incredible.

 · 
square.

suspicious dots appearing outside biden supporter's homes. https://www.newsweek.com/california-blue-dots-joe-biden-roseville-1544292

 · 

(Sarcasm) Only the left riots and loots...

 · 
x-jla

The left is more unhinged. It’s not about who could do more harm if push came to shove, it’s about who’s unhinged. The left is unhinged. Businesses aren’t boarding up windows in Manhattan because they are afraid of trump supporters lootings. And you obviously don’t understand violence if you don’t understand that property crime and looting leads to violent encounters.

 · 
x-jla

And plenty of blm folks had guns. I support their right to carry guns while protesting peacefully too.

 · 
x-jla

I generally think it’s a bad idea to open carry at protests, but it’s their right to do so in an open carry state. I loath the hypocrisy when white people get nervous/critical when black protesters do the same thing that they do. It’s racist. The right to bear arms is unfortunately the most racially difficult right for black people to exercise. Even if they have CCP, if they get pulled over by police they are taking a big risk.

 · 
x-jla

You guys are missing a big point. It’s not that right wing politics are less dangerous than left wing politics, it’s that the demographics of left wing politics usually leans young, broke, and disenfranchised. That young broke demographic is more likely to go nuts in the streets than boomers with maga fanny packs.

 · 
square.

how do you objectively quantify something like "the left is more unhinged?"

hint: you can't, which is why it's impossible to take you seriously.

1  · 
x-jla

Young people are more likely to engage in mob behavior in general. Parties, concerts, sporting events, etc. politics just creates a virtue shield for them to misbehave while feeling good about it.

 ·  1
tduds

.

 · 
SneakyPete

"If they were afraid of Trump's rednecks why wouldn't they put signs up saying they were KKK supporters to placate them?" 

Or they are putting up signs that say what they actually believe, so putting up racist slogans favoring the red hat klan would be reprehensible?

 · 
archi_dude

How are you guys so blind? You saw both sides in action this year. Right, protesting to not be forced into their homes and on government support...no widespread anarchy. Left, protesting about systematic racism, wide spread looting, destruction occurred for months and even an autonomous zone where people were shot and law enforcement and ambulances couldn't reach them. Tduds chanting that jla is purposely trying to not see the truth is just so comical. Jla why are you even trying? You are arguing with people who are in a luxury services industry and they literally think socialism will increase their pay and demand for their LUXURY services. Your arguing about the color green with color blind people.

 ·  2
SneakyPete

And you don't know about color blindness but feel entitled to use it as an analogy. Kind of you in a nutshell, when you think about it.

 · 
curtkram

for one thing, systemic racism is actually bad. for ano ther thing, wtaf? https://www.businessinsider.com/right-wing-extremists-kill-329-since-1994-antifa-killed-none-2020-7

1  · 
x-jla

^fake news

 · 
x-jla

Antifa did kill someone

 ·  1
tduds

[redacted]

Sorry, youtube fail.

Nov 3, 20 10:48 am  · 
 · 
x-jla

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qfKyNxfyWbo


Sheldon Solomon on Lex Fridman


Great episode.  Listened while CADing...made the time fly...

Nov 3, 20 3:29 pm  · 
 · 
liberty bell

You wanna know what I’m doing election night? Scouring Craigslist to find an apartment that would be affordable for my 67yo female Black neighbor who lives on SSI and who was made homeless two weeks ago, who was living in a non-running truck cab on the street until last weekend when she fell and broke her kneecap but the ER sent her “home” anyway so I put her in a hotel until we can find her dignified shelter. 


Greatest country in the goddam world, ya’ll. Fuck everyone. I mean it. This country deserves to burn to the ground.

Nov 3, 20 11:02 pm  · 
9  · 
x-jla

No one is forcing you to stay.

 ·  3
x-jla

And why not let her live with you?

 ·  2
liberty bell

Ignore it all you want exlax because you are *clearly* so above it all - I mean seriously, you’re so cool - but this country is an abject failure.

 · 
x-jla

I gave you two solutions. You can leave, or do something to make it better.

 ·  1
x-jla

You can’t burn it down, because lots of people who consider this country their home won’t let you.

 ·  1
Rusty!

x-jla, you are the biggest moron on this site and I have no idea why you are even allowed to post here. You have literally nothing to offer in terms of topic of architecture. You constantly spam political BS and little else. Can you like... just leave?

5  · 
archi_dude

Bell threatens to burn country down. Jla says that's silly. Jla is a terrible idiot who contributes nothing but political BS

 ·  1
x-jla

rusty, How strange things have become....calling to burn the country down is now socially acceptable, while telling a person that can leave to a different country, or do something make it better is not...

 · 
x-jla

archi_dude, you beat me to it.

 · 

I'm calling it a night, but thought I'd post this here if it might help anyone with their stress, anxiety or whatever. Looks like Fox News is way out ahead of the other news organizations in calling states, and even with everything they have filled in on their map, 538 still gives Biden quite a favorable outcome based on their model with those states filled in. It could all still be wrong, but if it helps anyone sleep a little better, well that's probably not a bad thing.

1  · 
randomised

liberty bell didn't threaten to burn the country down, she said the country deserves to burn to the ground, that's not the same, not by a long shot...

1  · 
liberty bell

jlax, you’re unwilling to engage with the actual problem, just to throw simplistic “solutions” that absolve you of having to be challenged by anything you don’t like. You’re the perfect encapsulation of the moronic me-first attitude in this country. I could let her live with me and also I could leave the country. There are a million reasons why neither of those are actual workable solutions. But your inability to engage in complex thought processes means that’s all ya got.

2  · 
liberty bell

Also: thanks, randomised. But seriously, that fine a distinction is way above jlax’s mental ability. He sees what he wants to see, nothing else.

1  · 
Wood Guy

.

 · 
x-jla

Liberty bell, you made a dumb and irresponsible statement. The country deserves to burn! What exactly does that mean to you? Sounds like you are saying something to the effect of- Inequality and misfortune exist, so everyone must be punished. That’s a position of low mental ability if you ask me. Then the hypocrisy. You have a home. You are a professional. You and she are economically unequal. The ability to change that dynamic in this particular case is in your hands, you can split your assets with this woman, but you are putting your own needs first, Understandably, and then accusing me of having a me-first attitude. Ha. The problem with your “burn it down” lament is that you are expressing deep hatred for a country that you benefit from, and a problem that you contribute to. You may argue that your degree of wealth or ownership isn’t above the arbitrary evil level, but that’s all relative. To that woman, you probably seem very well off. It’s nice that you helped her, and that you care, I mean that sincerely, but don’t bash “the country” for big problems that you are not willing to address on a microcosmic scale. I too help people in need when I can. The people you casually demonize also do. I know a trump supporter who pays 20 people’s health insurance personally, and has a program that mentors and pays for college of hundreds of inner city youth. The me-first attitude is not a good attitude to have, and nothing I’ve said indicates that to be my MO. You are creating enemies of you imagination to absolve yourself of personal responsibility as a beneficiary of this country. If you want to talk about UBI, social housing, etc then that’s a reasonable debate to be had, but that requires a country that isn’t burnt down

 · 
liberty bell

“...big problems that you are not willing to address on a microcosmic scale“ this is exactly what I AM doing god you’re dumb.

 · 
x-jla

So why does the country deserve to burn down?

 · 
square.

xlax, you don't need to respond to every statement you disagree with and turn it into an abstract ideological argument. there are a lot of emotions and anxiety going around, everywhere.

some people need to vent.. just let it go.

4  · 
randomised

Hurray for the people of Oregon, New Jersey and Arizona! 

Nov 4, 20 3:41 am  · 
1  · 
x-jla

Weed or Biden?

 · 
randomised

the decriminalisation of drugs

 · 
x-jla

Oh, yes, I agree!

 · 
x-jla

AZ legalized recreational marijuana too

 · 
tduds

Oregon is great. Wish the rest of this place would hurry up & get their shit together already.

 · 
Mohammad Asad

I like Canada.

Nov 4, 20 4:20 am  · 
1  · 
randomised

"Robert Cahaly, pollster for the Trafalgar Group who predicted a Trump win in 2016, added: 'In 2016, the worst being said about Trump voters is that they were “deplorable.”

'2020 is a whole different ballgame. It is worse this time—significantly worse.

'This year had more things where you can get punished for expressing an opinion outside the mainstream than almost any year I can think of in modern history.

'I’m finding that people are very hesitant [to share their preference for Trump], because now it’s not just being called “deplorable.” 

'It’s people getting beat up for wearing the wrong hat, people getting harassed for having a sticker on their car. People just do not want to say anything.'"

Nov 4, 20 6:01 am  · 
 · 
x-jla

And it’s always the seniors that they go after...cowards

 · 
x-jla

I did catch some kids tearing down Biden signs in my neighborhood. I got out of my car and yelled at them. Made them put them back, and lectured them on free speech and civility.

1  · 
x-jla

We’ve also had many trump signs vandalized too

 · 
tduds

"expressing an opinion outside the mainstream" is a funny way to say pro-fascism.

 · 
randomised

I don’t think those very fine people even know what fascism is.

 · 
Non Sequitur

what's the over under on post result shootings? 

Nov 4, 20 8:38 am  · 
 · 
bowling_ball

It's too early in the morning to go that dark, dude. You need a day off.

3  · 
Non Sequitur

Never! Also, I get up at 5:30am so it's practically lunch time for me already.

 · 
Bench

You hiring? The personal evacuation likelihood has probably gone up over the last 24 hours.

1  · 
Non Sequitur

Bench, maybe... I know I'm quickly getting swamped, but I know others are looking at lighter work loads so not sure if we're in need of staff (or can even provide you with a comparable offer to what you get in M'erica Town...). Anyways, you know how to get in contact with me so if you're serious, I can at least throw out some feelers to my office and my colleagues'.

 · 
Bench

I jest for now (I think...), but much appreciated. This place is... a bit loopy.

 · 

Well I told my wife that if Trump wins I'm buying an AR.

 · 
x-jla

Good luck, they are completely sold out everywhere.

 · 
Non Sequitur

pew pew pew.

 · 
Non Sequitur

.

3  · 

x-jla wrote:

'Good luck, they are completely sold out everywhere.'


Not where I live.  We have several gun shops that have them and are allowing you to build them with their in stock parts. 

 · 
randomised

It starts to look like you don’t need to buy one, lucky you!

 · 

Gowd I hope so!

 · 

NS - Don't forget the pig firing crossbow mount.



1  · 
x-jla

Best apocalyptic gun is a good bolt action .22 rifle. Accurate, simple, and can hunt small game like rabbits without obliterating them...things you won’t need to refrigerate..

 · 
x-jla

Because if shit ever hits the fan I’ll be far far away from humans...I feel perfectly confident that I could survive in the wilderness

 · 
tduds

Regardless of who wins & what happens I'll be getting a gun soon. Been procrastinating way too long. Not for self-defense, but not against using it that way if it ever needed to be.

 · 
Dank Gehry

not my fault. i don't even know any hispanics

Nov 4, 20 9:35 am  · 
 ·  1

WTF are you talking about?

 · 
sameolddoctor

The idiot Cubanos in FL

 · 

What did they do?  I think the overwhelming white population voting for Trump.


 · 

If you (generally, not calling anyone out specifically) haven't read any of the articles about the lack of homogeneity in the "latino" or "hispanic" demographic yet ... you should find some and look it up. Even calling the demographic by those names can be argued as to what they represent. Still waiting to see how it all plays out, but there will be more written about this in the coming days/weeks with what looks like Trump winning FL and Biden winning AZ and potentially NV (still too close to call).

1  · 
x-jla

Cubans voted trump big time. They don’t like socialism, obviously. They always vote republican though

 · 
tduds

The idea that Biden is anything close to a "socialist" is hilarious, and yet morons keep falling for the right's lie that anything less than full-throated hypercapitalism is a reincarnation of Stalin.

1  · 
x-jla

The Dems did a bad job at distancing from the politically insignificant yet loud and media savvy left....and definitely moved the dial in rhetoric...perception is what they are going by.

 · 
tduds

As usual, Democrats are wimps while Republicans are evil.

1  · 
x-jla

Soon you will realize that the parties are not all too different...

 · 
x-jla

Their main differences are in their branding.

 ·  1
tduds

Nope.

1  · 
tduds

The Democratic Party is a center-right corporatist party with some socially-liberal goals and a small but robust center-left caucus. The Republican Party is a far right authoritarian party with literally no policy platform and a recent but all-encompassing focus on disenfranchisement & obstruction. 

Their written and spoken actions over the past 25 years plainly lay out these realities. Anything suggesting otherwise is one media-bubble (Good guys! Bad guys!) or another, more annoying media-bubble (They're the same!) .

2  · 
square.

really tiring of the both-sides-parties-are-equivalent narrative. it take so little work to dismantle, yet you keep insistently peddling it. just because there are two does not mean that they are equal.

https://www.nytimes.com/intera...

 · 
square.

your data? or anything other than purely-speculative abstractions?

 · 

One thing I've been thinking about with the graph above that bothers me is that presumably the circle is centered on where the party would be "centered" on average left to right, but that doesn't really tell you about the extents of the party as they extend either right or left. 

So if you imagine the circle instead as a line with the center located in the same place, but the extents of the line extending to the extreme views each party might have, you'd probably see some Democrats further to the left, but also toward or even crossing the center to balance out those to the left. The same for Republicans, only their extents probably don't even get to the center, and if they do, it's only to balance out a heavier far-right component. 

Also the line doesn't necessarily need to be equal left and equal right of the center point. Again if you have some extreme views further from the center or balance point, those could be balanced out with a lot of views near the center or balance point. Like balancing a teeter-totter with a fat kid and skinny kid. Fat kid's mass has to move toward the fulcrum and the skinny kid has to move further away. 

That's the graph I want to see.

 · 
x-jla

I can’t believe trump declared victory last night.  Wow.  He’s a fucking nut.  



Nov 4, 20 10:47 am  · 
1  · 
tduds

I can very easily believe it. It's perfectly in line with everything else he's ever done in his life and he literally said he was going to do it.

3  · 
bowling_ball

x-jla I ask again, because this is becoming a trend with you: where have you been the last four years? This is exactly the shit he's been doing since day one. I'm glad you're finally realizing it.

1  · 
tduds

If anything that's happened in the last 48 hours is surprising to you, either you haven't been paying attention or you're living in a fantasy reality. This election was disappointing to me in many ways, but hardly surprising.

3  · 

well stated tduds

 · 
x-jla

Oh, it doesn’t surprise me...I’m just from ny, that’s how I talk...As in “do you believe this fuckin guy”. Also, bb, your misunderstanding my take on trump and trumpism. Being critical of the Dems doesn’t make me aligned with the repubs. As I’ve stated before, I’ve never voted for a republican prez. I either vote for libertarian canidate, green...I voted Obama because he’s black, and I wanted a black president to win for historical significance...being honest

 · 
x-jla

And I liked Jill Stein...I’ll swing between left libertarian (Green Party) and right libertarian (Libertarian Party) depending on the candidate. And I’ll vote for the intellectual candidate over the politician regardless (Yang) even if I disagree on certain things. Trump is not my guy, but he’s also not satan or hitler, and Biden is as bad or worse imo.

 · 
x-jla

Hope that makes sense...I’m running on 4 hours sleep and dealing with work and 2 wild toddlers at the moment..their daycare is closed again...:) gotta teach these kids CAD. Does it count as child labor if it’s your own kids?

 · 
mightyaa

"The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) provides for certain exemptions. Minors under age 16 working in a business solely owned or operated by their parents or by persons standing in place of their parents, can work any time of day and for any number of hours" :P I don't even think you have to pay them....

 · 
x-jla

Yes! I’ll pay them with Hershey kisses

 · 

Took Trump 4 years, but he finally beat Hillary in the popular vote. 

  • 2016 Hillary: 65,853,514 (wikipedia). 
  • 2020 Trump: 67,655,396 (current count from AP via Google).
Nov 4, 20 3:35 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

Gotta adjust that to reflect turnout

 · 
tduds

lol

 · 

On turnout, he's not quite there. Hillary had 48.2% whereas Trump at this moment only has 48.1%.

 · 
x-jla

will you all now admit that there were shy trump voters and polls were way off?



Nov 4, 20 3:58 pm  · 
 · 
mightyaa

I've always admitted that, and fear it again. The issue with polls is someone has to pick up the phone and do the poll... No one I know does that except the diehard loonies that haven't figured out caller ID and blocking calls... or the other type like my 21 year son who gets his jollies trolling polesters and forums/reddit/twitter.

1  · 
randomised

“Authorities in the tiny nation of Zimbabwe will slap the World’s superpower with sanctions if their elections are not free and fair. 


Zimbabwe is infamous world over for its troubles such as hyper-inflation and hotly disputed elections and the chaotic land reform program that saw the Southern African Nation country being slapped with a litany of sanctions by First world countries particularly the United States and the United Kingdom. 


The irony of the threat from Zimbabwe is that Zimbabwe was slapped with sanctions by USA in 2001 following the violence that rocked the country in the 2000 elections. The United States has a penchant to slap sanctions on countries that have not held elections to its standards.


A lot of African countries have also been taking a keen interest in how the United States handles its own elections. This is because of the way US has exerted pressure on Africans on how they hold their own elections.”


;-)

Nov 5, 20 9:58 am  · 
1  · 
x-jla

Hey now, hypocrisy is our thing bro

 · 
x-jla

Jo Jorgensen gets 1% 


Decriminalize drugs, DeMilitarize police, End qualified immunity, no knock warrants, end foreign Intervention wars, end crony Capitalism, let true free market capitalism work, end govt subsidies to corporations, protect civil liberties, gay marriage (before it was cool), end taxation that violates the NAP, replace welfare state with a UBI, legalization of voluntary transactions like prostitution, gambling, pot smoking, etc!  Create permeable borders, make immigration cheap and easy, Come on board!  


“The Libertarian Party is not gaining raw vote popularity. They get their 1% reliably. Nothing has changed there. What has changed is that their meager 1% now matters much more intensely to the outcome of the larger election,” he added. “Their tiny number is highly leveraged. That means their agenda has newfound power on the national scene. I expect that the major parties will spend much more attention to reaching out to Libertarians as allies going forward.”

Nov 5, 20 10:07 am  · 
 · 
square.

thanks for sharing.

i needed a little humor this morning.

1  · 
tduds

Jorgenson should try winning a city council seat first.

1  · 
tduds

I'm all for a diversity of political options in this country but tossing up a quixotic presidential candidate every 4 years and doing little legwork otherwise (not None, but not nearly enough) is not how you do it. This is my beef with the green party too.

2  · 
x-jla

Fair critique. I agree, but people who preach small government usually aren’t as motivated to be part of government. Third parties are good idea farms, and election sweaters, not really viable opponents in this country, unfortunately. Jorgensen has beat the spread between trump and biden in a few states. That’s a more powerful thing than it seems, and it gives a principled alternative or at the very least a “none of the above” vote that threatens the majority when lead by an unprincipled front runner.

 · 
x-jla

*election swings (not sure how spell check changed that to sweaters lol)

 · 

I wondered what an "election sweater" would be. I'm all in favor of meaningful reform that would result in more viable parties in this country. Until then, they seem best used as a tool to move the needle one way or another.

 · 

Pay attention to Fox News today. They got a lot of heat for calling AZ for Biden earlier than anyone else, but their team has stood by the call numerous times. It is looking more likely at the moment that Biden will carry NV, and the various media organizations may start calling it soon. So far, I know Fox and the AP have called AZ for Biden (there may be others too), and a Biden win in NV would give him 270 and the election. 

So Fox has a big decision if it's thinking about calling NV for Biden (which again is likely to start happening with other organizations soon based on what I'm reading). 

  1. Fox will have to decide whether to call the election for Biden (making their "Viewer-in-Chief" angry), 
  2. Retract their call of AZ (making the "Viewer-in-Chief" happy, but also would be seen as them backtracking to save face whether warranted or not), 
  3. Or hold off on calling NV (delaying the inevitable but giving hope to the "Viewer-in-Chief," but also seen as saving face if other organizations start calling it).
Nov 5, 20 1:05 pm  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

The self-own is going to be dope.

1  · 

For them to backtrack on AZ now, after reaffirming multiple times they called it right, and at the same time admit that companies like CNN were smarter for holding off on calling it would be fantastic.

1  · 
x-jla

I don’t think this is going to be settled anytime soon. NV is being accused of 20k dead voters or something, and there are issues in PA with access for poll watchers. This is gonna drag on for a long time.

 ·  1
x-jla

They held off on GA, NC, and PA too, where trump is leading. NC is still being held off with 99% vote in. I don’t get it

 · 
x-jla

Sorry, 95% in NC, 99% in GA....the NC vote is not close. The NV vote is within 1percent and only 75% reported.

 · 

Dead voters, lol. The people making the claims aren't offering any supporting evidence and saying the reporters asking the questions should do their jobs and find them. Sounds like they're throwing whatever they can at the wall and hoping it sticks. 

Meanwhile...https://twitter.com/RalstonReports/status/1324415080226643971

2  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Why do we always have to do the work for others? Is that the Libertarian mindset, or is it crony capitalism? NC isn't being called, because they have a November 12th deadline for mail in votes to arrive, if postmarked by election day.

2  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Polling is an inexact science. Voting is a simple counting exercise. Statistics is not arithmetic.

 · 
tduds

.

1  · 
tduds

North Carolina is, imo, the least likely Biden win of the states remaining. But it's by no means a sealed deal.

1  · 

tduds, does that include Alaska as a remaining state?

 · 
x-jla

It’s a simple counting exercise if no one cheats. They are saying that 10k ballots were cast in NV from non-residents. Not saying it’s true or false, just saying that the lawsuits will delay the results in which time the trump supporters will become convinced that fraud occurred regardless of the evidence, and the Biden supporters will be convinced that Biden won....this is a powder keg senario because it will draw out 2 sides protesting against each other. The blm protests didn’t really have a very big opposition. This will imo be far more volatile and Trumps or Biden’s premature claim to victory will exacerbate it. I see trumps rhetoric far more extreme and accusatory in this situation...evidence is not important these days, for either side.

 · 
tduds

EA - Oh I keep forgetting about Alaska. There's no way in hell Alaska isn't deep red, so its almost not worth mentioning.

1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

^no one is paying attention to this clown car of bullshit. There's zero evidence, and it's only goal is to manipulate emotions, not get at truth. Voter fraud has only been committed by one side, and they're on both sides of the issue; "count the votes" "don't count the votes". Understand? One side is arguing opposite sides of the argument in different states. That is fraud.

 · 
x-jla

I just read a survey, let me see if I can find it again....anyway 50% about believe that the election will not be fair. 58% or something close to that say they will not accept the results if other side wins.

 · 
x-jla

The YouGov poll of 1,999 registered voters found that nearly half – 47% – disagree with the idea that the election "is likely to be fair and honest." And that slightly more than half – 51% – won't "generally agree on who is the legitimately elected president of the United States." The online poll was conducted Oct.1-2 and has a margin of error of +/- 2.56 percentage points.

 · 
x-jla

And let’s not be naive, it’s entirely possible that voter fraud has occurred. It’s not morally beneath the Dems or repubs to cheat. Investigations and courts will have to decide, but my worry is that the results won’t matter, facts don’t matter.

 · 
tduds

A population flooded with misinformation will ultimately reflect the effect of that misinformation in opinion polls. The number of people who "believe" an election is fair has zero bearing on the fairness of said election. Sucks that we've got a hoodwinked populace of paranoid people, but there's no evidence so far to support fraud or unfairness.

1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Oh, I'm not being naive, in fact I'm being deadly serious; the only voter fraud that has been occurring, is by this fucking Muppet in the white house. Well, that and the guy working for his campaign in 2016.

 · 
square.

i thought the polls were wrong.

 · 
x-jla

B3, you don’t know if that’s true, or if Dems are engaging in fraud or not. My point is, it doesn’t matter. A significant portion of the population will believe that fraud occurred regardless of the evidence or lack of evidence.

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Oh, but I do know. Any attempt, or suggestion that the counting of votes should cease, is an attempt to defraud the voters. Period, end of fucking sentence.

 · 
x-jla

I thought he was referring to votes received after deadline

 · 
x-jla

Again, my point isn’t what happened or didn’t happen, it’s that facts don’t matter anymore.
https://www.npr.org/2020/11/05/931794937/facebook-removes-pro-trump-group-urging-boots-on-the-ground

 · 

I'm not even sure Trump knows what he's referring to ... he's just sowing chaos because THAT'S WHAT HE DOES. The more chaotic the process the more enticing his offer to stop the chaos if he gets his way. That's the type of transaction he's looking for.

1  · 
x-jla

Agree, but that’s what both parties do.

 · 

You're joking right? Are you actually saying the Democratic Party wants a chaotic process?

1  · 
tduds

It's one one party is currently doing and what the other party hypothetically would do if we pretend it's even remotely likely that an inverse scenario would occur and... actually no, even then "both parties" wouldn't do that.

 · 
Superfluous Squirrel

Ah yes, Both Sides.

1  · 
x-jla

EA, the dem party wanted chaos pre election, riots, economy and such to make Trumps approval lower. Yes that’s definitely the case.

 ·  1

Just for fun, let's take a look at the twitter feeds of both sides:

Biden: "Keep the faith," "I ask people to stay calm. The process is working. The count is being completed." "Democracy is sometimes messy, so sometimes it requires a little patience." "We're fighting to ensure every last vote is counted across the country," and more. 

Trump: "misleading content," "misleading content," "Big legal win in Pennsylvania!" "STOP THE COUNT!" "Fmr NV AG Laxalt: 'No Question' Trump Would Have Won Nevada 'Convincingly' Without Mail-in Voting (via BreitbartNews)," "misleading content," "STOP THE COUNT!" and more.

2  · 

yeah, I suppose you're right jla. All the democrats trying to negotiate and pass a stimulus to help the economy, calling on protesters to remain peaceful and such were trying to sow chaos. 

Meanwhile, Trump flip flopping on whether he would even sign a stimulus bill, feeding the flames of racial tension, sowing misinformation about the pandemic (and then just giving up on it and ignoring it) were all trying to calm things down. 

If Dems wanted chaos pre-election, their standard bearer was Trump himself.

3  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

That's such a great summary.

 · 
randomised

Devils advocate-mode: it is very easy for Biden to say to remain calm and be statesman-like as he knows he rigged the elections and stole the results, all he has to do is wait and take his minimum 270 to the White House...

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

That's awesome!

 · 

Devils advocate-mode, or tinfoil hat conspiracy theory-mode? 

The number of moving parts and pieces that would have to fall into place just right for that to be even remotely plausible is so far beyond even more mundane conspiracies like faking the moon landing or covering up alien autopsies at Area 51.

 · 

Back to the original topic ... looks like PA might be Fox News' out, allowing them to call it for Biden without needing to worry about AZ, or NV. NV isn't supposed to put out new numbers until tomorrow, but the PA sec of state was saying earlier they thought there would be enough vote counted that networks would be able to project a winner tonight.

 · 
tduds

Most candidates can't even pick a campaign song without getting a Cease & Desist, and you want me to believe they orchestrated a rigged election so precisely that it's still being decided several days later, and also *decided* to lose seats in the House and fail to get a majority in the Senate? Devil's Advocate... get real.

1  · 
randomised

tinfoil-hate mode: If anything can be learned from Russia it is that you don't need to orchestrate things very precisely to get the results you need, it can be blunt, it can be brutal, it doesn't matter, the end justifies the means. Do you think Putin ever lost a minute of sleep over not winning his elections? A country that pulls fake weapons of mass destruction out of a hat to go to war surely is capable of rigging elections anywhere in the world, even in their own backyard.../tinfoil-hat mode.

And now let's just wait till all votes have been counted, the ones cast in person or sent via mail. And kudos to Fox for calling Arizona when and how they did.

 · 

"kudos to Fox for calling Arizona when and how they did.

If you look at the raw numbers from the link tduds provided below ... it is looking like they may have called it wrong. I've read elsewhere that the remaining vote won't be as favorable to trump, but we'll wait and see.

 · 

Remember when I said I'm not sure that Trump knows what he's referring to ... ? 

Yeah, about that...

 · 
x-jla

random, somehow the media and Dems convinced the liberals that the deep state doesn’t exist anymore. The deep state got caught spying in Americans, NSA, but they couldn’t rig an election....right. Not saying they did, but they would and could if they felt it was necessary...

 · 
randomised

Assange is fearing for his life and Snowden in exile exactly for that reason...Guess they are only the good guys if they expose the wrongdoing of the opposition. The US has rigged and interfered in numerous elections, don’t see why they would be incapable suddenly to pull a similar trick at home...the entire military and intelligence community is backing Biden, I’m sure they had scenarios prepared to save the country from a guy like Trump, otherwise what use are they?

 · 
tduds

lol

2  · 
tduds

This is a great data table. Auto updates. If you want to cut through the network bullshit and see the numbers.

https://alex.github.io/nyt-202...

Nov 5, 20 1:56 pm  · 
4  · 
tduds

If you look at the vote differential vs. votes remaining, and the proportion of each block, you can see why it's still too close to call. Not a toss-up in every state, but 70-30 isn't sure enough for obviously & rightly gun-shy journalists.

1  · 
square.

why did you give me this.

2  · 

It's worse than anything else I've been looking at for sucking up my time. Really interesting though.

 · 
square.

quite happy to see the right infighting over a state that won't really matter in the end.

1  · 
x-jla

According to that trump may still win arizona?

 · 
tduds

Seems possible.

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Possible if they allow cacti and slot machines voting power. Most of the vote coming in is from Pima County, not Maricopa. Maricopa, has Las Vegas, and some of the largest unions in the country. Not to mention heavy Mexican heritage population. It's not rural.

 ·  2
x-jla

Las Vegas in in NV bro. You mean Phoenix?

1  · 

Maricopa = Vegas?? 

Maricopa = Phoenix

2  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Correct. I got the county wrong, forgive me. Not at my computer. At the Y.

1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Even then I got that wrong...jfc.

1  · 

sorry b3ta...

1  · 
x-jla

Hey, if you can give me a pass on my spelling, I’ll give you one on geography.

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

EA the hits keep coming!

 · 
x-jla

William Bradley March 1902, 48207


Been dead since 1987, but his ballot was acceptable 


https://mvic.sos.state.mi.us/Voter/Index?fbclid=IwAR3RAVWOWQBejB5qaSNy3vMuEPpe58UJH8cu53M8Gtq9oJ_9SKhOj6PqPF8

Nov 5, 20 5:29 pm  · 
 ·  2

So let's assume that's accurate and that it's not just a simple error in data entry (which is probably the most likely explanation) ... that's one vote in MI where Trump needs to find *checks AP election numbers* *does math* 145,136 more dead voters in order to close the gap to Biden. 

Also, not for nothing, there's something like a 30.7% chance that was a dead vote for Trump.

It's not every day I get to say this, but where are all the bodies?

4  · 
tduds

That link just goes to the Sec of State page to fill out a form.

 · 

Correct, he gave you the information to fill in the form and see the voter record showing an absentee ballot was requested, returned, and accepted. Doesn't confirm death or that it's not a mistake in the Sec of State system.

 · 
tduds

No thanks.

2  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Do you know why I even hid this? Because before I even did the FUCKING basics, I knew one of two things; gez William is a common name, so is Bradley, and weird, but no middle initial? Oh, did I forget, sorry. Is is likely this man had a son, or grandson, great-grandson? Hmmm.

Um, yeah. He did.

William

"William Bradley is a potentially common name. We found another William Bradley in the same zip code and spoke to him on the telephone Nov. 5.

Bradley told us that he shares the same name as his father who died in 1984, except he has the middle name of Tarnell. He told us that he lives in the same home where his father used to live. 

Bradley told us that he voted by mail due to the pandemic. He said that a ballot arrived for his dead father, but he threw that out.

"I didn’t use it, because I didn’t want to get it confused with mine," he said.

Bradley said that someone on Nov. 5 called him and told him there was a report all over the internet about this situation, so he called the city about it. A city official told him not to worry, because officials check for a matching signature and date of birth, he told us."

Do that shit again. Do it. My geography skills might be whack AF, but you fail basic skills. Show your work. Libertarian.

5  · 
square.

xlax getting quiet.

1  · 

Well shoot! Better start looking for more dead voters. Ok, so add back this one, and we are *checks sources* *does some more math* 145,126 dead voters to close the gap. Looks like in the meantime Trump picked up about 10 votes. He can still do this!

1  · 
x-jla

The DOB is March 1902. His son is 118?

 ·  1
x-jla

Try it. It works. The site requires a year and month of birth along with a zip and name.

 ·  1
x-jla

Oh, they say they made a clerical error. Ahh.

 ·  1
randomised

Do you need a dead body to mail in a vote?

 · 
randomised

"I am sure you will agree that if any votes are found to be fraudulent by the election officials they should be thrown out."

Agreed, that's why they have election officials. Next time just have the UN help monitor them, you know like they do in other "shithole" countries: 

https://dppa.un.org/en/electio...

Nov 5, 20 7:32 pm  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]


my night is going to be lit! Next up, Nikki Giovanni live lecture!

Nov 5, 20 7:36 pm  · 
4  · 
x-jla's comment has been hidden
randomised

last time a sitting president lost this was his speech:


https://youtu.be/sMLmaZ8hUwM

Nov 6, 20 2:58 am  · 
 · 
archi_dude

Been keeping the phone off the past few days to tune out the drama. Have done a quick news browse. And yeah, this is atrocious what Trump is doing. I concede my statements from Tuesday, I was wrong this is terrible and I hope we get him out soon. 

Nov 6, 20 8:57 am  · 
3  · 
square.

new betting game: over/under trump gets forcibly escorted out?

 · 
square.

where are volunteer's pennsylvania updates?

Nov 6, 20 11:03 am  · 
1  · 
sameolddoctor
I’m reading into Biden’s statements of “God bless our troops” - hopefully he calls armed guards in to evict Trump
Nov 6, 20 11:35 am  · 
1  · 
randomised

Yeah, bless em for doing the devil’s work...Biden showing his true colours immediately, the world is gonna burn after 4 relatively peaceful years :-(

 · 
Non Sequitur

I thought god blessed both sides of the battle... must be some serious conflict of interests there. Someone should report god to its professional association.

 · 
sameolddoctor

rando, nothing is going to burn. What peaceful 4 years? I guess you have forgotten about all the police killings in the US this year, and millions infected by a pandemic Trump failed to control. You anti-immigrant rhetoric will not hold here...

 · 
randomised

I’m not talking about America burning but the rest of the world, as it did under Trump’s predecessors because of imperialist American interventionist politics. The world loved the America First politics, no new illegal American wars. Well that’s gonna change soon, I’m sure of it unfortunately. I also don’t have anything against immigrants, my family is one of immigrants as they had to flee religious persecution back in the day, my girlfriend, the mother of my children is an immigrant and my children have dual citizenship, so please inform yourself a little better next time.

 · 
SneakyPete

"The world loved the America First politics" 

*sources required*

1  · 
randomised

Sources for not invading foreign countries, for not starting illegal wars or proxy wars or bombing all those innocent civilians...sure!

 · 
SneakyPete

Sources for your claim about what "the world" thinks. Stop playing dumb if you want me to believe you are anything else.

1  · 
randomised

I know there was less war, less invasions and illegal killings by American troops under Trump and so do you, the one playing dumb here is you. Don’t like that Trump actually did something right for a change, something that actually matters? Good to know where you stand in all of this, that you prefer war over peace, illegal invasions and killings of civilians worldwide...a true ‘America First’ apologist, noted!

 · 

Looks like jla must have done something overnight that got him nuked from his own thread. Anyone know what went down?

Nov 6, 20 11:55 am  · 
 · 
randomised

The NSA finally found this thread...

 · 
SneakyPete

Someone decided "more feces than wall" wasn't a good look for the room.

 · 
tduds

Wow, yeah, what.

 · 

He's still allowed in which perpetual threads now? What music are you listening to? Any others? 

The worst part about this is that when he brings up anything political in other threads (which you know he will), we can't just tell him to take it to Politics Central. Seems like the mods didn't think this one through all the way.

 · 
tduds

Looks like the posts are back.

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

It was a slip of the finger, I think?

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

EA, he's back in the thread, and still spreading his bullshit in other threads.

 · 
Non Sequitur

Not US politics related, but I'm in the process to seek reciprocity in the province of Quebec... dirty, dirty quebec.  I had to contact my highschool (graduated 2001) to get a copy of my diploma to show I have french education. I don't think this will be an easy transition, ditto if I need to have formal interviews.

Nov 6, 20 12:33 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

Decriss!

1  · 
Non Sequitur

Calisse d'sti. Tabarnak.

1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

"they made a clerical error"

Nov 6, 20 5:08 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

The good thing, the morons will now see that nothing will change with trump gone, nothing!  the problem is the process itself.  Good and smart people can’t get into the right seats.  The process favors political whores and corporate climbers...



Nov 7, 20 2:17 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

On one hand you're not entirely wrong. On the other hand, even within the broken system Trump is uniquely awful and uniquely unqualified. His defeat, while narrower than I would have liked, is a step in the right direction. I'd rather a half-broken democracy than none at all.

2  · 
x-jla

It’s certainly not a step in the right direction. The only good thing that came out the election is the the govt knows that at least 1% of the population will resist their control

 · 
x-jla

Yup, and then Harris becomes prez...a ruthless politician who kept someone on death row while knowingly withholding information about his innocence. She was forced down our throats...she couldn’t hold her own in the primaries, and she may inherit the presidency.

 · 
randomised

Curious who her VP will be when she takes over...

 · 
tduds

Biden doesn't have Alzheimer's you moron.

 · 
sameolddoctor

Interesting to see who the snowflakes are on this thread. Pretty cool when the vitriol gets thrown back at you, no Trumpers?

Nov 7, 20 7:14 pm  · 
1  · 
x-jla

Oh, you binary thinkers...cheering that a dementia patient career politician and a sociopath career climber beat a narcissistic blabber mouth...it’s like cheering that you have cancer in the left nut instead of the right nut.

 · 

Echo Park and Sunset Blvd. literally hundredaof street corners like this all over Los Angeles.

Nov 7, 20 8:28 pm  · 
2  · 
x-jla's comment has been hidden
x-jla


Sad but true.

Nov 7, 20 8:45 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

.Image

1  · 
randomised

Oh wow, around 35 air strikes in 2017, or what Obama would call your regular Monday morning...

 ·  1
tduds

You know the other lines on the graph are during Obama's presidency, right?

 · 
tduds

We all know Obama presided over lots of drone strikes. What I'm trying to get through your thick skulls is that Trump *also* did. In some areas strikes increased, in some other areas civilian deaths increased, and the only major change between the two administrations is the Trump admin removed requirements for reporting them.

 · 
randomised

Yup, but 30+ strikes in an entire year would be the equivalent of what Obama ordered on a regular Monday morning before his first cup of Joe.

 ·  1
tduds

Or, you know, approximately the total of 2014, 15, and 16 combined. The data is right fucking there, why do you keep making things up?

 · 
randomised

Yeah but it’s Somalia...30 something air strikes in a year in Somalia, that’s nothing compared to what Obama dropped during his presidency. Of all the American conflicts in the world you choose the one where Trump order only 20 air strikes more than Obama, 20... ”America dropped 26,171 bombs in 2016. What a bloody end to Obama's reign”

 · 
tduds

"The US dropped more bombs on Afghanistan in 2019 than any other year since the Pentagon began keeping a tally in 2006" https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/28/us-afghanistan-war-bombs-2019

 · 

From the above article: 

"After the Obama administration tightened the criteria for carrying out aerial attacks, there was a significant decrease in bombing in 2015, but at the same time, the Taliban made territorial gains, leading to calls in Washington for the rules to be loosened again. Trump relaxed the criteria, giving more authority to commanders in the region to call in airstrikes, contributing to the surge in bombing."

 · 
tduds

"There have been 2,243 drone strikes in the first two years of the Trump presidency, compared with 1,878 in Mr Obama's eight years in office, according to the Bureau of Investigative Journalism, a UK-based think tank. ...The Republican president has also made some of the operations, the ones outside of war zones, more secretive. As a result, things have different today: under Mr Trump, there are more drone strikes - and less transparency."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207

 · 
randomised

How many innocent people died under Obama’s presidency and how many under Trump? There were many more civilian deaths because of Obama’s decisions...but that’s all swept under the carpet or being ignored, such an eloquent speaker, so much charisma. Thanks for ISIS, Yemen, Eastern Ukraine and Crimea...

 · 
randomised

etc.

 · 
randomised

US military bases worldwide, “spreading democracy”: https://www.basenation.us/maps.html

I’d rather have a US president playing golf than playing Battle Ship IRL...next 4 years we will see an increase in American interventionist conflicts and illegal wars, if only to secure a Democrat reelection, increased tensions with China and Russia, possible escalations on the Caucasus and the mayhem in the Middle East will go back to its usual pre-Trump state...but at least Trumps gone, congrats!

 · 
tduds

"There were many more civilian deaths because of Obama’s decisions...but that’s all swept under the carpet or being ignored" I literally posted examples above that explain the opposite is, in fact, true. You're doubling down on your own unfounded bullshit despite being led by the hand to reputable information. 

I guess you really can't make the horse drink. I'm done.

 · 
randomised

It’s not unfounded, the Obama Administration did count all military-age males in strike zones as combatants...they simply counted civilian kills as military, “lies damn lies and statistics”!

 · 
x-jla
babs

Because these individuals recognize the difference between a self-absorbed dishonest narcissist and a competent, caring person who loves this country.

2  · 
x-jla

Oh, so now Jeff Bezos cares?

 · 
BabbleBeautiful

What's your point? Many people, including myself, have been holding their breaths until it's officially over. If you were trying to play the complacency card, then we can have a discussion, but you're not.

 · 
x-jla

The Democrats and republicans have been upholding a globalist neo-liberal order since after ww2. Trump disrupted that order, for better or worse. These big multinational companies benefit from this order being reinstated, as well as relations with China. I’m glad trump is gone because of his divisive rhetoric, immigration policies, etc...but in terms of foreign affairs I think he’s better than the parties of Obama, Bush...

 ·  1
tduds

Counterpoint the "globalist neo-liberal order" is not bad and the majority of Obama's foreign policy was a long-play to keep an ascendant China in check. 

If you think some late-19th century mercantilist bullshit like "tariffs" actually made an iota of progress against China's rise as a global power, well I've got a hotel in Shanghai to sell you.

 · 
Dank Gehry

why do there seem to be no consistently good people anywhere? no matter what side, it seems like all anyone wants to do in this country is mock each other

Nov 8, 20 3:46 am  · 
 · 
x-jla

I think part of it is that the 2 parties are in a hypocrisy loop.

1  · 
x-jla

Like the super spreader events last night

 · 

If it didn't involve people contracting a deadly virus, I'd be laughing about this.

 · 
x-jla's comment has been hidden
x-jla
x-jla

Not my president!

 · 
x-jla

A Politico article hidden...ha

 · 
tduds

Call me a luddite, but I see no reason to use anything other than simple paper ballots, ever.

1  · 

I'm not even sure what the point of the article is. The only claim they are making is that an update to the software occurred and it delayed voting, which was then extended. It was perhaps unusual, but there isn't any claim that this means there were votes not counted or anything. Both counties affected (Morgan County and Spalding County) went for Trump with similar numbers as they did in 2016. 

  • Morgan County: 
    • 2016 went 69.2% for Trump, 
    • 2020 it's 70.3%. 
  • Spalding County:
    • 2016 went 60.9% for Trump, 
    • 2020 it's 60.0%. 

What's so interesting about this?

1  · 
x-jla

Those machines also “glitched” in other counties and flipped votes from trump to Biden. When someone caught it, they corrected it.

 · 
x-jla

Investigate who the machines are connected to.

 · 

Do your own homework and cite your sources.

1  · 
x-jla

The hypocrisy is funny.  Not my president, Russia stole the election, illegitimate president, collusion collusion...etc x 4 years.  Now whaaaa they are undermining the legitimacy of democracy...whaaaa...That’s why the arguing will never stop.  Hypocrisy annoys people more than anything and like I said above the two parties are in a twilight zone hypocrisy loop.  



Nov 9, 20 12:06 am  · 
 ·  1
SneakyPete

and you float above it all, filled with hot air

3  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

I'm trying to see the hypocrisy. Maybe I need to get higher.

 · 
square.

love seeing xlax shape shift from "trump will win hands-down" grifter to minority-party-hyper-troll before our eyes.

1  · 
x-jla

what’s minority-party?

 · 
square.

is this a real question? you know less about politics than i gave you credit for.

 · 
x-jla

The hypocrisy is so clear...Jon Stewart cry’s about trump saying election was fraudulent....he, and the entire Democratic Party as well as the entire media establishment spent the last 4 years literally saying that the 2016 election was stolen. If you can’t see the hypocrisy, you are part of the problem. Then to add, lmfao, after months of saying that trump rallies are super spreader events Biden hosts a huge rally with fire works, people passing around champagne bottles and swapping spit, you can’t make this shit up.

 ·  2
b3tadine[sutures]

The first one was fraudulent. Russia did intervene. The second one was attempted theft, as evidenced by USPS, the minions calling for the ending of vote counting, and trying to criminalize mail in voting. So where is the hypocrisy? As for Biden's event, are you cognitively impaired? The people who attended were in cars, in a fucking parking lot. Not like fat boy, who holds an event at the White House. Shouldn't you be off to the Four Seasons?


1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

"you can’t make this shit up."

Apparently, you can.

 · 
x-jla

No self awareness

 · 
x-jla

Some liberal tweets: “the republicans are such sore losers”. The twitter mob agrees...I can’t tell between parody or reality anymore...I think it’s time for trump supporters to put on penis hats and clog the streets...not because I give a shit which wannabe tyrant is on the throne, but because we need consistency man.

 · 
square.

"some liberal tweets = my understanding of the totality of reality"

i truly feel for people like you who are unable to celebrate and immediately begin whining, complaining, and groaning as soon as possible. it must be a pretty miserable existence. there's a lot not to love about biden, but holy shit removing trump is one of the most consequential events of our life time, especially for the planet.

if you are as "independent" as you claim, stop being so goddamn insufferable and breathe for a minute.

2  · 
x-jla

Removing trump is not necessary good for the planet being that China’s mass pollution is a direct consequence or our trade arrangements and their growth that feeds off it. One think I’m happy about is the likelihood of a divided govt. I don’t see why Biden is better than trump. I go off facts and logic, not speeches about Scranton and unity. I also don’t look at the pretty pictures on the cereal boxes. I look at the ingredients. Most cereal is filled with shit

1  ·  2
square.

*ignores and keeps incoherently rambling about cereal*

later, man.

1  · 
tduds

Computers use logic. Humans are infected by emotion even when they think they're being rational. Stop saying "logic" when you mean "thought process" and stop pretending your thought process is any more immune to bias than anybody else's.

3  · 
BabbleBeautiful

I really don't understand how ya'll keep up with him...it's commendable in it's own right

2  · 

Not even sure why I'm posting this, but here we are. 

The issue in 2016 was never about whether Trump was elected by a fair election process. He was. You can find Dems that would claim it wasn't "fair" that the winner of the popular vote didn't win, but that's how our elections process works. Claims of Russian interference stopped short of claiming that votes were changed or fabricated. In fact, most media outlets and politicians were going out of their way to point out that the voting process was not tampered with. At most it was a claim that people were misled by misinformation or fabrications (i.e. fake news) ... but the foundation of the democracy, that the people give the leaders power through the voting process, was never in doubt (except for Trump's own claim that 3 million illegal immigrants voted for Clinton, of which there has never been any evidence to support it). 

The issue in 2020 is that Trump is claiming there has been widespread voter fraud (with no evidence to support it), and that does undermine the electoral process which ultimately undermines the foundation of democracy. So this isn't even close to a valid whataboutism for 2020's claims compared to 2016's claims of "not my president." The only person undermining democracy, in both cases, has been Trump. So there's no hypocrisy here because Dems, with their claims of Russian collusion, were never undermining the electoral process like they are saying Trump is now.

 · 
x-jla

There is a hypocrisy loop...meaning that both sides are engaging in back and forth hypocrisy. The hypocrisy is undermining the legitimacy of their “authority”

 ·  2
tduds

.You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means |  Know Your Meme

2  · 
tduds

"I really don't understand how ya'll keep up with him..." 

How is easy. It's why that continues to elude me.

1  · 

Hypocrisy doesn't undermine the legitimacy of a politician. It might undermine their credibility or their likability, but their legitimacy is founded in the election that put them in power. The only one trying to undermine that legitimacy is Trump and those who follow him.

 · 
x-jla

You mean like when trump was called an illegitimate president?

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Xlax keeps using hypocrisy, the better word for Trump and his ilk is; duplicitous.

 · 
tduds

.

1  · 
x-jla

Must have been hard living under a rock for the last 4 years

 · 
x-jla

“ their legitimacy is founded in the election that put them in power” https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-
president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html%3foutputType=amp

 · 
x-jla

Yawn, it’s too easy.

 · 
tduds

There are a ton of reasons why 2020 is different from 2016 but I'm kinda busy this week so instead of trying in vain to craft my own response that you'll inevitably dismiss I'm going to post funny memes and occasional good analyses that other people write as I come across them. Stay tuned.

1  · 
tduds

Kind of a digression but it's very funny to me that you're so obviously googling things on the fly and posting whatever results come up since you can't be bothered (or don't know how) to scrub the link into a correct URL.

2  · 

One of his links further below shows it was from Ben Shapiro's facebook page. Great source of news! Where was the link he posted that said that people who get the majority of their news from social media are less informed overall?

 · 
tduds

When one person does something, and then a different person does something in contradiction to the first person. It's "hypocrisy" because both of those people are "Liberals."

Also I decided they're Liberals neither of them said it.

Nov 9, 20 11:00 am  · 
2  · 
tduds

Mark my words if credible evidence comes out that foreign interference somehow tipped the election *for* Biden, I'll eat my hat. In all likelihood (and I'll pre-emptively admit this is pure conjecture and I have no factual backup for it) any interference was designed to help Trump but it failed.

3  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

I'm still waiting for xlax to take my offer on his bet.

 · 
SneakyPete

There was indeed attempted fraud in Pennsylvania.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry...

1  · 
square.

incredible. what was all that about evidence, facts, and logic?

 · 

Playing off of tduds conjecture ... any interference could have succeeded in helping Trump while also failing to give him the victory. I've seen talk about the red shift along the Texas border because of Spanish-language targeted misinformation. I'm not saying it was coming from a foreign actor, but just pointing out that success and failure might depend on how you look at it. 

A lot of Russia's interference in 2016 was seen as simply trying to undermine confidence in the electoral process. Judging by what we are seeing 4 years later, this could be seen as successful based on the stuff Volunteer and jla are posting.

1  · 
x-jla

I didn’t say that the election was or wasn’t compromised. I said that it could have been. People laughed at the idea that the government was spying on us, then the NSA program was revealed. It’s laughable that suggest that with all the global enemies that trump has made, that foreign powers wouldn’t also potentially interfere. I’m saying, investigate and let the courts decide the truth. You guys act like the Dems are above corruption, which is not true, considering corruption may be happening on their behalf unknown to them entirely. I have no idea of proof exists. Probably not. Let’s let them investigate to rule it out.

 · 
square.

You guys act like the Dems are above corruption

no, we don't. we just act like equating both political parties with vague abstractions that have little basis in reality is irresponsible.

3  · 
x-jla

The Russia investigation didn’t reveal anything substantial. They trolled online. That’s the extent.

 ·  2
tduds

"They trolled online [on behalf of a specific candidate, with the knowledge and tacit approval of said candidate]." Important omission.

1  · 
x-jla

And the Iranians and Chinese have been doing the same for a specific Candidate
.

 · 
x-jla

I’m happy trump is out, but I want the elections investigated. In the internet age, it’s naive to assume that an election can be fair. There is a big difference between propaganda and actual hacking into systems or whatever...the later is my concern. The propaganda is kind of impossible to stop.

 ·  1
SneakyPete

What happens when the puppet becomes sentient yet never questions whose hand is up its ass?

2  · 
x-jla

Ask people with protest signs.

 · 
tduds

.

2  · 
curtkram

it's up to the election commissioners in each county to investigate their elections. they do that. it's happening. if there is a specific county, maybe even three, that seems to have screwed up and tried to cover it up instead of fixing it, then let's get an outside agency involved. don't fill the courts with frivolous lawsuits with no evidence because you're a sore loser.

2  · 
x-jla

Can we change Bill Barr for Bill Burr? It would be way funnier.

1  · 
SneakyPete

For posterity:


Nov 9, 20 11:57 am  · 
2  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

we need a better devil, because this advocate is shit, just shit.




Nov 9, 20 9:43 pm  · 
3  · 
tduds

A+ pun

1  · 
x-jla

First, I’m not sure what you all are saying - fraud didn’t happen (you don’t know), fraud couldn’t happen (Why not), or I don’t care about fraud because my guy won???    


Second, stop lying.  The hypocrisy is clear as day, and you look ridiculous not acknowledging it. Voter propaganda from Russia was lesser than the propaganda and info suppression from big tech.  


Third, I’m happy trump is out, just not happy Biden is in.  Based on policy, not style or branding, why is a Biden presidency better?  I’ll give you the nice feel good speeches (which are written by others FYI), but in terms of policy, what will be better and why?


Fourth, Kamala Harris is an obnoxious and ruthless prosecutor.  She’s not kind and woke.  I get the black female barrier thing (which no one cares about except the identity fetish group or the actual racists), but other than that, her record shows that she is a terrible human.  Why are we celebrating this?


Fifth, I’m not going to put a “not my president” bumper sticker on my car, or riot in the streets (nyc plywood windows can come off btw...no need now that Biden won) or wear a vagina hat like a jackasses crying and flailing on the ground in 2016-17, because it’s dumb.  

Nov 10, 20 9:44 am  · 
 ·  1
x-jla

Also, stop acting like a revolution occurred. There is nothing more establishment than Biden. The public didn’t rage against the machine, Biden is the machine.

1  ·  1
x-jla

I agree. As for the vaccine, Actually it was developed by scientists, so the whole concept of a president getting credit because they were there when it was developed doesn’t make sense.

 ·  2
b3tadine[sutures]

Typical clowns. Trump can't put one sentence together, and douchenozzles like these two reprobates are casting aspersions. Absolutely love the hypocrisy, yes hypocrisy. No one elected religious leaders, Trump is pro choice, Trump assaulted, raped and is an out and out racist, Trump is bought and sold by Turkey, Russia, and others, and you kkklowns are wondering who owns Biden? Eat a djick magakkklan.

As for the virus, and vaccine, cry me a river snowflake maga; Trump will own the former, and Bidet latter. Trump owns the failure of the wall, immigration, white nationalists, the declining economy, etc. He's a piece of shit, he's going to jail, and with any luck Don Jr. will be on a street corner doling out blow jobs for change.

 ·  1
x-jla

Are the 20% of black men and 38% or Hispanics in the magakkklan or did they just realize that Biden is a racist based on past policy and past racist comments?

 ·  1
x-jla

Wait a second, according to biden “they ain’t black” so guess they are white now by default and therefore in the kkk. Sneaky libs

 ·  1
b3tadine[sutures]

That's the problem with dipshits like you, you think that white supremacy is all the purview of whites, instead of deeper thinking into the underpinnings. I don't care what handful of black men did, Black Women won this, and I'm going to celebrate them,
you garbage fire.

 · 
x-jla

The problem with people like you is that you redefine terms stretching to fit your narrative like language is made from silly putty. You make paranoid claims about “white supremacy” as if it’s fact without providing any evidence or reasoning. You make everything about race. The only people this obsessed with race are racists and identity fetish folks. Do you realize that by making everything about race you are reducing people to their least important characteristics?

 ·  1
x-jla

Like when you look at a Basquiat or listen to Hendrix...if race is the first thing that Pops in your head...your probably a racist.

 ·  1
x-jla

*you’re

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

The only moron denying white supremacy, and the insidious, infrastructural impacts, are dumb asses like you. Not to mention the rampant misogynist, and homophobic attitudes emanating from the men you've underscored as "evidence" of a lack of white supremacy. Get a book. White Supremacist Capitalist Patriarchy is real, and you don't have to be a kkkrazy white ass kkkracker to be one. The sheer dumbfuckkkery.

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Epilogue: it's clowns like you that fail to see, acknowledge, and reconcile the past, that are the reason we're in this place. Get back to your color-blind world son, adults are busy doing the work you lazy whites are incapable of doing.

 · 
x-jla

“The men I’ve underscored” ??? Not sure what you are talking about. Anyway, it’s like arguing with a cult member. “I don’t like capitalism and racism is bad, so if I call capitalism racist then defending capitalism equates to defending racism and I don’t have to talk about hard stuff like economics”. Something like that. Also, please show me a multi-racial communist society, thanks.

 ·  1
x-jla

“Reconcile the past” How? It’s like literally the past, and no one was there, and how far back do we go, and who’s responsible, and who’s a victim????....your way of thinking holds people back. I choose to focus on the future. Race is stupid. This is one planet of trillions upon trillions, the shade of someones ass skin is the least important thing to occupy ones mind.

 ·  1
b3tadine[sutures]

"Are the 20% of black men and 38% or Hispanics..." Dumbfuckkkery.

 · 
x-jla

And you’re white correct? So maybe get a serious tan or stfu about what’s good for black people...

 ·  1
x-jla

Ohhh so the blacks and Hispanics that voted for trump are the defective ones. Got it.

 ·  1
x-jla

Not that the economy was decent under trump, prison reform, black college funding, opportunity zones, capitalism vs socialism rhetoric, etc. I love how you remove the agency from an entire race by rendering them heroic when they vote for 1 candidate or defective when they vote for the other. Essentially, they have 1 legitimate choice then, no?

 ·  1
b3tadine[sutures]

^^^duuuuuuumbfuckkkery supreme. Talks about agency, then points to all the ways the Grand Wizard buys votes. You ain't got nothing on stupid, you own the whole ship. You're white...omg. The level of fucking stupid. Tell me asshat, when you're done beating your wife, does she say thank you?

 · 
x-jla

Lmfao. I don’t buy your bullshit therefore I’m a wife beater. Black people who vote for someone you don’t like are defective. Keep it up...your close to QAnon level thinking...#alldemsarepedos

 · 
x-jla

“Buys votes” the Dems have been buying votes for a long time...what did LBJ say again?

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

^^^keeps saying that people are defective, when I'm saying internalized oppression is real, and homophobia and misogyny is real. Demonstrates you should be first in line for reëducation camps in my Marxist Wonderland.

 · 
x-jla

Yes, internalized oppression is real, and the oppression narrative is being pimped by you. And, haha not a chance about the camps.

 ·  1
randomised

“Poor kids can be just as [defective] as white kids”...

1  ·  1
x-jla

In my libertarian wonderland you’d be the first that I’d leave alone because that’s what libertarians do.

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

^^^except you're not a Libertarian.

 · 
x-jla

Y not?

 · 
x-jla

Open borders, free markets, equality of opportunity, legalized drugs, legalized anything, stop military adventurism, end militarized police state, maximum liberty for all, end crony capitalism and corporate welfare, free anyone in prison for non violent offenses, individualism, multiculturalism, minimal govt, absolute free speech and expression, Low taxes Etc etc. I take a more progressive approach on some things like UBI. I think it’s a necessity and doesn’t limit liberty at all. Environmental issues, I prefer maximum conservation and restoration of state lands as the primary function of the state. The lands no currently owned should be preserved. The owner lands leave alone. In my libertarian wonderland the fed would be more like a giant national parks service. The military would be neutral.

 · 
x-jla

And yes, I voted Jo Jorgensen. She’s a woman, therefore I’m a misogynist because I clearly just like boobs

 · 
square.

yeah.. you're still not a libertarian.

 · 
x-jla

Your not a liberal.

 · 
x-jla

You’re not a liberal

 · 
curtkram

so when a woman is aggressive enough to win a few court cases and succeed in politics you feel the need to publicly claim that she's a terrible person? like you needed to post that here because you really need people to know you think strong women are terrible people?

 · 
x-jla

Are u slow?

 · 
x-jla

She’s a terrible person because she’s a terrible person. I don’t care if she’s a trans Pygmy one legged dwarf with Crohn’s disease . No identity passes from me. Are you even aware of her record as a prosecutor? I’m the only one here that voted for a woman, jo Jorgensen, and I also said multiple times that the best dem candidate for prez was tulsi Gabbard, a woman of color, who also happened to destroy Kamala in the debate causing her campaign to crater...then the dnc forced her upon us because she’s exactly the soulless politician that they can control.

 · 
curtkram

i'm just saying, you could type that all out and not hit enter at the end. like, get it out of your system, but don't put this version of you out in public. this isn't private space.

 · 
x-jla

Did you not just try to spin my criticism of Kamala Harris with a lazy sexist claim? Why is that acceptable?

 · 
x-jla's comment has been hidden
x-jla
b3tadine[sutures]

Meh.

 · 
x-jla

Why is this hidden? It’s truth. Orwell said something about telling the truth...

 ·  1

Not sure why it’s hidden, unless it’s been fact checked as wrong. This isn’t the silver bullet jla thinks it is though. I’m not quite sure what he’s trying to point out here anyway. Do things like this happen, yes. That’s why we have the double checks in the process to find and correct these things. Are you suggesting that there are errors like this throughout the results in various states that would be enough to overturn the presidential election results? This is an example of the process working and reinforces the claims that there has not been large scale voter fraud or tampering in the elections.

 · 
square.

it's time to (i can't believe i'm saying this) pull a fox news- stop paying attention and shut the shit off.

 · 
x-jla

EA, it’s not about overturning anything imo. I don’t want trump back in, but I want anyone trying to scam an election arrested, or any software that is glitching to be removed from use. Why wouldn’t you? We have little ability to stop foreign actors like Iran, China, Russia, but domestic interference can and should be resolved. If trumps unrealistic dream of overturning the results is the motivation to do so, then let the courts and investigations sort it out.

 · 

I've never said I want to keep glitchy software or that people trying to scam the election shouldn't be arrested, and you're not really saying that. You're using it as an excuse to keep doing what you're doing (see the hippo story below) ... but no one is disagreeing that if there is evidence of voter fraud or a rigged election they should be investigated. What I'm saying is so far, without evidence to the contrary, there isn't any there there. Until there is ... you're just a hippo using it's tail as a crop duster. 

You're intelligent enough that you can see the articles you're posting aren't pointing to anything unusual, and that the system seems to be working as it normally does. If you want to make larger changes to the voting process and get rid of chances for scamming elections, you'd be spending your time encouraging everyone in Georgia to vote for the two democratic senate candidates in their January runoff election. That will mean that something might actually be done rather than the elections and voting bills languishing on the Senate Majority Leader's desk for the next two years.

2  · 
SneakyPete

"I can't win the game so I am changing the rules." -X-Lax

1  · 
SneakyPete

"I make shit flow." -X-Lax

2  · 
x-jla

Hippo poop for 4 years everywhere and no one notices. Now, that your guy won, suggesting voter interference is taboo. There is as much evidence that big tech suppressed certain information before the election as Russia did

1  ·  1
x-jla

All I’m saying is, you didn’t win anything. The DNC and RNC are both two heads of the deep state. Trump was too narcissistic to control. They needed him out to go back to business as usual

 ·  1
b3tadine[sutures]

^^^assertions disguised as fact, is hippo-shit. Thank you for playing.

 · 
SneakyPete

Deep State: words that have no meaning.

1  · 
x-jla

Deep state: You know, the thing that liberals used to talk about before they were brainwashed to believe that the government loves them....NSA, crack cia connection, military industrial complex, etc..

 ·  1
b3tadine[sutures]

FWIW this dumb shit is hidden for the same reason we all shut down stupid; just because there's water on ground, doesn't mean it's raining. Especially when it's obvious to anyone with half a brain; it's sunny and 70.

 · 
x-jla

It’s 60 and partly cloudy

 · 

Subtle, but did anyone else catch the change when jla went from asserting voter fraud to voter interference to move those goalposts? 

If you're suggesting there was voter interference in the form of massive amounts of misinformation, I'm right there with you. If you're suggesting there has been voter interference through coordinated attempts over years to disenfranchise groups of voters by the Republican Party, I'm right there with you.

2  · 
randomised

Don’t people remember the DNC emails and WikiLeaks?

2  · 
x-jla

EA, I’m suggesting that all of the above are possible. I was clear on saying that I don’t know if it happened, but I know it could have. It’s like when the virus broke out and within weeks media was saying “the virus didn’t come from a lab”. No evidence. Just dismissed the possibility. I’m saying that fraud is certainly possible. Interference aka misinformation is apparent from both parties. Come on, you don’t think that big tech suppressed hunter Biden stories on purpose? It’s fucking obvious.

 · 

Hippo poop = allegations without evidence and conspiracy theories. You can keep flinging it, just know that is what it is.

1  · 
x-jla

I never alleged anything. I simply stated that it’s possible and that the DNC is not above it. The dnc and rnc are deeply corrupt parties man. We have been in wars for pretty much my entire life. As soon as one cools down, another starts up. This is not a democracy. It’s a very limited and highly curated buffet at best
.

 · 
x-jla

I understand the joy of getting trump out. I don’t understand the enthusiasm of getting Biden in, and I don’t trust the motives to do so.

 · 
tduds

I think you're mistaking the former (relief that Trump is on the out) for the latter (enthusiasm that Biden is on the in) and then using that to smugly denigrate happy people. It's pretty annoying, to be blunt.

2  · 
x-jla

There was a rat in a house. A snake ate the rat. Now there is a snake in the house. Pretty much how I see it.

 ·  2
tduds

Well that's dumb.

3  · 

Honey Badger 2024!


 · 
square.

never gets old.

but xlax still isn't a libertarian.

 · 

Back to cleaning up the poo with actual journalism. I'm surprised jla isn't embarrassed with how easy it is to fact check these things and point out he's being manipulated to believe things that aren't true. 

No, Software Glitches Are Not Affecting Vote Counts (from NYT)

1  · 
x-jla

Your moms not a libertarian

 · 
x-jla

Again, didn’t say it was, said it could. The msm is useless. They don’t investigate inconvenient subjects anymore, like hunter Biden, so I don’t take their word for it.

 · 

You’re saying the Daily Wire got this one more correct from their extensive research compared to the mainstream media NYT?

 · 
x-jla

Meh, human error or software error, I’m saying let it be investigated by people that know about this shit. I said it about a dozen times already, I’m not saying fraud happened, I’m saying that it could have. If lots of people are worried, investigation will settle it. No one is going to believe the media, because they have been very biased.

 · 
SneakyPete

So your point, after everything, is that you know nothing and are waiting for people to tell you what to think.

1  · 
tduds

Lots of things *could* be happening. Doesn't mean we need to talk about them.

 · 
tduds

My mom could be a libertarian. She's not, but she *could* be. I demand you acknowledge this possibility so we don't spend time talking about all of the evidence that contradicts it.

 · 
x-jla

I distinctly remember the Dems spending lots of money and time investigating the Russia conspiracy theory, with little evidence, and y’all loving it

 · 
x-jla

In fact, they lied and got a bogus dossier from a foreign agent to justify the warrant...I’m just here to point out the hypocrisy

 · 
SneakyPete

That's not why you are here.

3  · 
tduds

There was, and still is, lots of evidence.

1  · 
Non Sequitur

I've got a story reasonably relevant to the discussion above.

When I was much younger, say 12 or so, I was at a zoo in Virginia (the better one, not West) admiring the hippo pond.  It was mid summer so temp was hot and humid and it was busy. One particularly large hippo decided it was a a good time to relieve itself in front of the crowd.  Little did I know, but hippos tend to use their tails as crop dusters to disperse feces in a wide radius.  To add to this, on this particular day, this hippo's discharge was less than solid so the crowd not only got a show, but also a shower of liquid (possibly hot) hippo shit.  I was spared any collateral damage due to the tall enclosure barrier but the memory of the smell in the muggy air and visible spray pattern (plus a bunch of fat American tourists running around) still comes back to me from time to time.

The above conversation reminds me of that day. 

Nov 10, 20 10:58 am  · 
7  · 
x-jla

Hippocrisy

 · 
Non Sequitur

how so?

 · 
tduds

Crissy would be a good name for a pet Hippo.

2  · 

Look, I'm not one to comment negatively on people's appearance, I try hard not to, but that Kelly Loeffler lady has WAY too much hair.

Nov 10, 20 12:33 pm  · 
2  · 
SneakyPete

Hair furor.

2  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Overly processed, failed reality show contestant.

1  · 
Non Sequitur

Volunteer, she only has 499 million. She donated 1 million to trump's 2020 campaign.

1  · 
tduds

Overly processed, overly wealthy, failed reality show contestant.

2  · 
square.

too much hair, sell the shares

1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Of course she has $500000000, but she's still a Trumper Mud Flap.

1  · 
SneakyPete

She's an excellent example for how inheritance stifles motivation much more effectively than the social safety net.

3  · 
randomised

“Funny” how some people mock a person’s appearance or their voice for the sole reason that they have different political opinions...

 · 
SneakyPete

"hilarious"

1  · 
randomised

Isn't it? It's like there are no other reasons or arguments but those superficial ones, great level of discourse!

 · 
SneakyPete

Coming from you, that hits especially hard.

1  · 
x-jla

You can only mock conservative appearances otherwise you are sexist. Come on man, get with the new rules! You can’t even critique female policies without being called a sexist if they are members of the church of woke.

 · 
SneakyPete

You're such a free thinker. It's made clear how much you think for yourself when you use original insults you made up by your big boy self.

 · 
randomised

Pete, it is totally different in a one on one discussion/argument where insults are flying back and forth than in discussing someone’s politics/policies...I’m sure you realise that.

 · 
SneakyPete

I'm just here to point out the hypocrisy.

 · 
liberty bell

Just pointing out that I didn’t make any comment on Loeffler’s politics. Just her hair. That much hair doesn’t look good on either side of the aisle.

2  · 

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