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b3tadine[sutures]

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Nov 11, 20 6:41 am  · 
5  · 

Loving how NPR is now constantly using phrases like "without presenting evidence" and "stated without proof" and "refusing to accept reality." That's called telling it like it is.

Nov 11, 20 10:44 am  · 
2  · 
randomised

So NPR got bored of politics and moved on to religion...

Nov 11, 20 10:49 am  · 
 · 

Naw, they're just reporting the facts. I actually heard a newscaster on NPR say that something was 'untrue' and that someone else's comment was a 'lie'.

Nov 11, 20 11:10 am  · 
2  · 

"'There's a great human capacity for inventing things that aren't true about elections,' said Frank LaRose, a Republican who serves as Ohio's secretary of state. 'The conspiracy theories and rumors and all those things run rampant. For some reason, elections breed that type of mythology.'"

[...]

"Voting fraud in the United States is extremely rare. The irregularities that do occur are often inconsequential, isolated in nature, and unlikely to alter the outcome of an election. The most significant episode of election fraud over the past several years involved an alleged effort to manipulate ballots to benefit a Republican candidate for Congress in North Carolina, Mark Harris, in 2018. The scheme forced a new election and an operative who worked for Mr. Harris, L. McCrae Dowless, is under indictment. Mr. Harris was not charged with wrongdoing, and denied any role.

"In the case of the 2020 election, Mr. Biden's margins in the blue wall states of Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin are all in the tens of thousands. Even in Georgia, where Mr. Biden leads by more than 11,000 votes, it would be hard to uncover enough voting irregularities to change who won."

[...]

"Mr. Trump's attack on the election system this year has relied on either outright fabrication or gross exaggeration involving the sorts of small problems that typically come up in elections.

"In Ohio, for instance, Mr. LaRose said that while it was not unusual to discover a handful of improprieties in a statewide election, systemic fraud has not happened.

"'In the past, I've referred people to local prosecutors and the attorney general for noncitizens voting,' he said. 'It's like tens or dozons of people, not hundreds. There's no acceptable level of voter fraud and we take every one of those cases seriously.'"

The Times Called Officials in Every State: No Evidence of Voter Fraud

Not looking good for finding that evidence everyone (read jla and Volunteer) is desperately searching for to support the conspiracy theories.

Nov 11, 20 1:30 pm  · 
 · 
square.

After his first election Trump was peppered with detailed policy questions

classic trump maga spin. the braincells continue to erode. provide quotes of these "answers," please. we're all still waiting on his healthcare plan, let alone a demonstration of a 5th-grade understanding of what healthcare is from trump

Nov 11, 20 2:35 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised

I’m more interested in how Biden has his oatmeal to be honest. Am a banana, blueberry and raspberry guy myself.

Nov 11, 20 2:37 pm  · 
3  · 
tduds

"Odd, you should quote the Ohio official. Trump won Ohio 53.4% to 45.2%." 

Why is this odd?

Nov 11, 20 2:49 pm  · 
2  · 
SneakyPete

Because obviously you're a dogmatic, flaming lefty and therefore when you quote a republican it makes Volunteer short circuit.

Nov 11, 20 2:55 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

I just wanna hear him say it.

Nov 11, 20 2:58 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

I hope he reboots successfully after the forced OS update on Nov. 3.

Nov 11, 20 3:08 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

But if we are to root out possible fraud we should look everywhere. Do you have a problem with asking Ohio? Why do you have a problem looking for fraud in Ohio? Are you suggesting something?

Nov 11, 20 3:29 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

"The Times Called Officials in Every State" 

"Every State" includes Ohio.

"the Ohio vote was honest and there was no allegations of fraud there."

Also true for the other 49, based on the evidence above.

Nov 11, 20 3:33 pm  · 
2  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

I volunteer, that Volunteer, is a lazy mf.

Nov 11, 20 3:49 pm  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Trump, answering policy questions?

This guy?

Laughable to the extreme.


Nov 11, 20 3:50 pm  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Is this week infrastructure week? Or are we paying for another trip to a fucking shitty golf course?

Nov 11, 20 4:07 pm  · 
 · 

I can quote more from the article ... 

"The accusations of fraud from the president and his allies were noticeably absent from states where Mr. Trump and his fellow Republicans did well.

"In South Carolina, for instance, the Republican incumbent, Senator Lindsey Graham, won relatively easily over Jaime Harrison, despite the fact that polls showed a tight race there. The South Carolina Election Board chairman John W. Wells said late Monday, 'I have not heard of any' substantive allegations of fraud in the state, though he added he would await a final determination in the certification and protest process

"Asked if Mr. Graham was concerned about the results in his state, a spokesman said the senator has 'discussed states where the margins are close' but invited South Carolina voters to step forward with any 'evidence of fraud or irregularities.' 

"Mr. Graham, a close ally of Mr. Trump, has taken up the president's cause. He asked the Department of Justice to investigate claims made in an affidavit the Trump campaign shared with him from a Postal Service worker in Erie, Pa. The worker made allegations of impropriety at the local Postal branch based largely on a conversation he said he overheard.

"Late Tuesday, the credibility of that affidavit came into question after the House Oversight Committee reported on Twitter that the worker recanted his story in discussions with the Postal Service's Office of Inspector General. The worker later denied he recanted in an online video."

Nov 11, 20 4:11 pm  · 
1  · 

From another article about the recanting of the postal worker's claims ... 

"Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, who has urged Mr. Trump to continue to fight the results of the election, sent Mr. Hopkins's affidavit to reporters along with a statement that read in part: 'I will not allow credible allegations of voting irregularities or misconduct to be swept under the rug.' He later acknowledged in a television interview on Sunday that the claims he circulated were unverified."

Nov 11, 20 4:19 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

It’s so laughable those comparisons of political opponents with Hitler, like school kids drawing tiny moustaches in their text books...if people really thought Trump was Hitler they should kill him and not make stupid memes. The guy deserves a Nobel Peace Prize and maybe even re-election, just to spite people...

Nov 11, 20 4:23 pm  · 
 ·  3

The idea that Dems would engage in widespread voter fraud in enough states to swing the election, while also losing house races, and not gaining a majority in the Senate is laughable. But yeah, I guess the idea that there was only fraud that happened in Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Arizona, and Nevada makes a lot of sense if you don't think about it. Trump and his supporters are really good about not thinking.

Nov 11, 20 4:24 pm  · 
4  · 
tduds

Many of the people who have compared Trump to Hitler are historians who study Hitler and elderly European immigrants who lived through his rise in the 30s. If you think the comparison is inaccurate feel free to provide an explanation.

Nov 11, 20 4:48 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

I think a major failure in American education is that we were taught about 1943 Hitler but not 1933 Hitler. Perhaps because a lot of people we were taught are "Great Americans" were suspiciously into 1933 Hitler.

Personally, I wouldn't say Trump is Hitler (He's way too dumb). But I will say that the people who currently support Trump, were they alive in 1930's Germany, would have supported Hitler. 

Nov 11, 20 4:52 pm  · 
2  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

I was reading a pretty decent piece on National Socialism, Nazi, and the parallels are stunning. The one that stuck with me, aside from the obvious Nationalism, was the fact that Socialist part, wasn't for everyone, it was only for those that fit the narrative propagated by Agolf. That right there, in a nut shell, hits all the salient points about Agolf Twitler today. Only his people get Medicare, only his people get bail outs, only his people get mobility carts, only his people get $15 hour in Florida...

Nov 11, 20 5:14 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

"The guy deserves a Nobel Peace Prize and maybe even re-election, just to spite people..."

Thank you for so saliently expressing why I don't think anything you say has any validity or merit.

Nov 11, 20 5:43 pm  · 
3  · 
tduds

hearty chuckle at "Agolf Twitler"

Nov 11, 20 5:55 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

AOC is not dumb, any you know that, and you're trolling, and this is another example of why your opinions are worthless.

Nov 11, 20 6:13 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

Way to miss the point.

Nov 11, 20 6:58 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

"Many of the people who have compared Trump to Hitler are historians who study Hitler and elderly European immigrants who lived through his rise in the 30s." In contrast, I highly doubt any Stalinist historians would do more than laugh dismissively at your trollish attempt to compare him to AOC.

Nov 11, 20 7:20 pm  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Mic check on aisle dumbass. No one liked Stalin, Lenin was the brains, Stalin was in the right place, at the right time. Like Agolf Twitler.

Nov 11, 20 9:21 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

I could go into the differences - both subtle and glaring - between Stalinist theory, Leninist theory, Marxist theory, Socialist theory, Sino-Soviet Communism in practice, Nordic Democratic Soclialism in practice, and American "Democratic Socialism" in its nascent ascendance, but something tells me the nuance would be lost on the audience here.

Nov 12, 20 12:31 am  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

"Until you guys stop calling 1/2 the country racist and deplorable..." *SOURCES MISSING*

Nov 12, 20 1:32 am  · 
 · 
square.

*said no one as they only call-out xlax's bullshit*

Nov 12, 20 9:10 am  · 
 · 
square.

i totally agree with the fact that this election is as much on the democrats as people who chose to vote for trump. i'm willing to bet there is a large percentage of trump voters that feel so alienated by the democrat's corporatist policies that they see trump as the only option. i don't agree with, however, giving credence to the entirely bogus conspiracy that the election was rigged. this popular vote margin is set to be one of the largest ever, which is no small statement. the more time you spend parroting this complete garbage, the more you damage your credibility.

that being said- i still don't quite think you're a libertarian yet.


Nov 12, 20 9:11 am  · 
1  · 

"I said fraud COULD have occurred.

And I've said there COULD be teapot bears in space...

Nov 12, 20 2:39 pm  · 
1  · 
BabbleBeautiful

x-jla: "B3, all socialism leads to nationalism and xenophobia."

WTF? Explain yourself.

Nov 16, 20 10:04 am  · 
 · 
tduds

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/art...

Nov 11, 20 2:59 pm  · 
1  · 

"How does a dead man cast a vote? How does anyone who is not a white male cast a vote? Because we’ve tried pretty hard to stop that, and it doesn’t seem to be working. Plus, dead people can walk through walls. We’re pretty sure that at his peak, Bob was casting 42,000 votes per second."

Nov 11, 20 4:36 pm  · 
2  · 

for jla

Nov 11, 20 6:44 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Ah yes, the old "Pointing out racism is the real racism" bit. Good one jla

Nov 11, 20 6:56 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

Take it up with the white nationalists, then.

Nov 11, 20 7:27 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised

Question that should perhaps be asked, do people dislike Trump so much that they think voter fraud is deemed acceptable? I mean, some people think of him as the reincarnation of Hitler, would you commit voter fraud to keep Hitler out of office? I would...

Here's to remind people of how rotten the Democratic establishment can be:

https://medium.com/the-jist/th...

Nov 11, 20 5:15 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

No.

Nov 11, 20 5:41 pm  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Correction: DNC Leadership in 2016.

2nd: These are private organizations, and they are not Constitutionally guaranteed. 

The Judge was correct; their grievance needs to be addressed by DemSoc taking over the party, and getting rid of the corrupt leadership. 

Nov 11, 20 5:42 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

"do people dislike Trump so much that they think voter fraud is deemed acceptable?" No.

Why do you think this is a question worth asking? No one* is making the case for this.

*I'm sure you could probably find some twitter rando with like 18 followers but let's agree that "No One" means no consensus with enough clout or momentum to matter.

Nov 11, 20 5:52 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised

That judge was correct that their leadership is corrupt...it clearly shows a pattern, a pattern still relevant to this day. They do anything to get their preferred candidate elected, a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g that's what it shows...At least the Republicans had the decency to run a clean primary and to stand by their winning candidate, even if they in all honesty would have preferred anyone but Trump. Simply shows character, integrity and respect for the democratic process.

Nov 11, 20 5:55 pm  · 
 ·  1
SneakyPete

... leadership is corrupt... it clearly shows a pattern, a pattern still relevant to this day. They do anything to get their preferred candidate elected, a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g that's what it shows...

Nov 11, 20 6:12 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

At least the Republicans had the decency to run a clean primary 

"In February 2019, the Republican National Committee voted to provide undivided support to Trump.[5][6] Several states canceled their primaries and caucuses.[7] Other states were encouraged to use "winner-takes-all" or "winner-takes-most" systems to award delegates instead of using proportional allocation."

I suppose you can't have a corrupt primary if you don't have one at all.

Nov 11, 20 6:55 pm  · 
1  · 
square.

rando is just sore that his call for trump "easily winning" was way off, as usual, regarding anything related to american politics.

Nov 11, 20 7:04 pm  · 
3  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Um, as I recall, Bernie was able to have approval of leadership in the party.

Nov 11, 20 9:15 pm  · 
 · 
Koww

I do, for sure. This guy dodges the draft and then shamelessly supports veterans

Nov 12, 20 12:10 am  · 
 · 
randomised

Because veterans are simply victims of the American warmongering system...the sacrificial lambs in the hunger for world domination, so it makes total sense to dodge being drafted to kill innocent people across the globe and to also support the poor saps that actually had to go to fight in those dirty wars...they go hand in hand.

Nov 13, 20 1:02 pm  · 
 · 
sameolddoctor
Randomised, I’m sorry your old skool Euro (read white) centric worldview is not holding up in the US. We make mistakes here but also fix them when the time comes, in a big way. Also note that you are clutching at straws when the talk becomes that is the “corrupt DNC”.
Meanwhile, why do you care so much while sitting in your socialist utopia? You seemingly enjoyed your Trump reality show, it’s over for the time being...
Nov 12, 20 1:25 am  · 
1  · 
randomised

You make mistakes, sure and the world is paying for them...Really curious where Biden will invade next to ensure a Dem re-election. The world will pay for your domestic politics, with the blood and lives of innocent civilians. If that is a white euro centric world view so be it. And the Trump reality shit show, it’s just getting started...can’t wait to see what rabbit he will pull out of his maga cap next...

Nov 12, 20 2:50 am  · 
 ·  2
curtkram

We'Re GoInG tO iNvAdE NoRwAy!!11one! so dumb

Nov 12, 20 7:39 am  · 
 · 
square.

there might not be more physical invasions, but have no doubt the at-distance-wars have proliferated under trump. not sure yemen falls under your conscience-radar judging from your islamophobic comments, though.

https://www.washingtonpost.com...

Nov 12, 20 9:07 am  · 
1  · 
BabbleBeautiful

Thanks for sharing square, I wasn't aware of this. At-distance-wars has been a trend since at least Obama administration, but in any case, this obviously tarnishes Trumps record on not being a (foreign) warmonger.

Nov 12, 20 10:29 am  · 
1  · 
square.

certainly not exculpating the obama administration.. like you said the military-industrial project is real, and it will shape every president that sits in the office; to claim trump has done anything different and has been a "peaceful" president is laughable.

Nov 12, 20 10:48 am  · 
2  · 
square.

bernie said it first, trump followed but is the one still bombing people.

Nov 12, 20 11:22 am  · 
 · 
square.

not to mention trump's bungled response to the pandemic has helped killed more americans than all wars combined since vietnam, you partisan hack.

https://www.newsweek.com/coron...

Nov 12, 20 11:33 am  · 
 · 
BabbleBeautiful

- His fleeting opinion on the Iraq war is inconsequential. https://www.factcheck.org/2016...

- I don't differentiate between American body-bags and foreign body-bags. Civilian casualty is civilian casualty, human is human.

- Pulling out of a conflict you started or partake in is not that simple anymore.

Nov 12, 20 11:35 am  · 
1  · 
square.

result of a 10 second search. come on man.

Universal Mask Wearing Could Save Some 130,000 Lives In The U.S., Study Suggests

https://www.npr.org/sections/c...

even if you don't buy the fact that it would be possible to make every american wear a mask, or that the study is exaggerated, having a president who early on signaled the importance of wearing masks as soon as we knew that it dramatically curbed the effects of the virus, even assuming 50% of this, still would have saved more lives than all of those lost in wars since 2000.

Nov 12, 20 11:54 am  · 
 · 
tduds

I don’t buy the idea that trump isn't responsible for covid deaths. How exactly is this?

Nov 12, 20 12:54 pm  · 
 · 

I'm not looking to the president to be my life coach or priest. I don't know anyone that does except the cult members Trump has following him. 

I am looking at the president to be an example, set public policy, and work with congress to properly fund the tools and resources necessary to effectively realize that policy. And if they can't do that, I expect them to accept the blame for it and not be xenophobic ... like a good chief executive should.

Nov 12, 20 2:16 pm  · 
3  · 
tduds

The president is responsible for setting a coherent national policy or, at the *very* least, consistent guidance that follows public health recommendations. Global problems won't and can't be solved by individual actions.

Nov 12, 20 2:23 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

Again you need to invent a side that no one is on in order for your case to make sense.

Nov 12, 20 2:24 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

The current severity of the COVID pandemic in the United States is a policy failure. Full stop.

Nov 12, 20 2:24 pm  · 
2  · 
randomised

“not to mention trump's bungled response to the pandemic has helped killed more americans than all wars combined since vietnam, you partisan hack. “

Obviously you only see the American lives lost, so typical...a real America First Maga Nationalist, only in Iraq there were that amount of civilians killed by your illegal American invasion!

Nov 12, 20 3:07 pm  · 
 ·  1
SneakyPete

Easy for you to sit back and throw stones in your glass house, isn't it? When was the last time the Dutch tried to lead on the world stage? You're eager to throw stones from within your anti-muslim country. What you conveniently and disingenuously ignore is that the people you're attacking on this forum do not support wars. You know this, you ignore this, and you lie about this because it makes you feel good, makes you feel right, and makes you feel better than. Your blind spots are glaring, they're obvious, and you sound like a fool.

Nov 12, 20 3:14 pm  · 
1  · 
square.

rando, i was specifically replying to vol's comment amount american soldiers, but preceded this with a critical article about the disastrous american policy in yemen. (though this proved my point about you disregarding another muslim country....)

you're being incredibly lazy here; i know you can do better..

Nov 12, 20 3:22 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

Here’s a thought...Maybe just stop trying so hard to lead...and trade blood for oil!

Nov 12, 20 5:19 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Easy for you to say as you sit back and enjoy the EU protections and privelages you didn't earn.

Nov 12, 20 5:47 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

"When was the last time the Dutch tried to lead on the world stage?"

I'll give you a hint it didn't go so well for the Indonesians.

Nov 12, 20 6:22 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised

That was not leading on a world stage and it actually went very well for the Indonesians, they’re independent you know...but great digging, gold sticker for effort!

Nov 13, 20 1:51 am  · 
 · 
randomised

SP what do you mean we didn’t earn those? We did earn them, paid with our blood and sacrifice and subsequent US occupation (you seem to call it liberation)...Was hoping you finally buggered off of the world stage and retreat back to your continent, but no, still didn’t get that memo: have to interfere almost anywhere in the world where something can be taken, stolen or sold...no wonder you are all so into Veterans Day supporting your troops, the occupying forces, celebrating the suffering of billions of people for cheap gas at the pump etc. You are all about America First, never met a more nationalistic militaristic bunch of people, killing your own and anyone else that suits you, that’s why Trump had to go, he stood up against that...

Nov 13, 20 2:02 am  · 
 · 
randomised

square, islamophobia is what Islamic fundamentalists refer to when they feel there are offenses commuted against their ideology that must be addressed through censorship or death, the usual, plenty of recent examples of that unfortunately. It was ayatollah Khomeini by the way that coined the term when he actually said that women who don’t wear a veil are islamophobic...Why do you brand me as islamophobic when I protest about the (mostly islamic) civilians being killed by your American armies, shouldn’t I be cheering according to your “logic”?

Nov 13, 20 2:23 am  · 
 · 

I heard that Trump was a Trojan horse for white nationalist types. Forgot where I heard that, but it's probably true. I'm sure someone has said it.

Nov 13, 20 1:36 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Dunno who the fuck you're talking about when you say 'you' up there little dutch boy, but it sure as shit ain't me. So unless you want to be painted with the same wide brush you love to use, fuck right off. When I say you I mean YOU. Rando. When you say 'you' you mean some imaginary monolith you pretend is the entire populace of a country. Ignorant ass.

Nov 16, 20 2:46 am  · 
 · 
randomised

if [your] shoe fits...

Nov 16, 20 2:59 am  · 
 · 
randomised

"Forgot where I heard that, but it’s probably true....Cheney types anyway"

Like Cheney's daughter...

Nov 16, 20 3:34 am  · 
 · 
BabbleBeautiful

...

Nov 12, 20 11:35 am  · 
1  · 
lower.case.yao

So can we all agree YangGang 2024?

Nov 12, 20 12:03 pm  · 
1  ·  1
SneakyPete

No .

Nov 12, 20 12:13 pm  · 
3  · 
square.

hard pass- i've seen enough from technocratic silicon valley saviors.

Nov 12, 20 12:25 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

I'll backhand slap anyone who mentions the 2024 election before 2023.

Nov 12, 20 12:55 pm  · 
2  · 
lower.case.yao

Why not Yang? He’s the only one talking about the plight of middle America and Trumpism as a symptom.

Nov 12, 20 1:12 pm  · 
 · 
square.

why not 2028?

Nov 12, 20 1:17 pm  · 
 · 
sameolddoctor

When I hear Yang's ideas all I can say is "cool story bro"

Nov 12, 20 1:19 pm  · 
1  · 
lower.case.yao

It’s an open secret that Biden’s a one-term president. His “transitional” presidency will allow other nominees a chance to get their feet wet in politics and run.

Nov 12, 20 1:38 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Ok, cool. But still a hard pass on the technocrat.

Nov 12, 20 1:44 pm  · 
2  · 
lower.case.yao

Not sure where this technocrat moniker's coming from. He's a lawyer that founded a hugely beneficial non-profit for emerging businesses, among other entrepreneurial enterprises.

Nov 12, 20 1:49 pm  · 
 · 
sameolddoctor

I think he should give me $1000 per month for 4 years, and then I will take him seriously.

Nov 12, 20 1:56 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Y'all must really want a slap.

Nov 12, 20 2:19 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Being a complete asshole to my friends is funny | x-lax 2024

Nov 12, 20 2:59 pm  · 
2  · 
square.

Not sure where this technocrat moniker's coming from

"lawyer" "founded" "emerging" "entrepreneurial" "enterprise"

Nov 12, 20 3:31 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised

Trump / Trump jr ‘24? That would mean a third term ;-)

Nov 13, 20 1:50 am  · 
1  ·  1
tduds

For self-described Freedom Lovers y'all seem to really love monarchy ;)

Nov 13, 20 2:12 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

Actually, according to the freedom index by The Economist the United States is a 'flawed democracy' and all those monarchies (incl. Canada, Australia, New Zealand) of Europe are actually full democracies! Our freedom of the press, according to Reporters Without Borders is a whopping 'good situation', yours only a meagre 'satisfactory'...so yeah, freedom lovers should come live in a European-style monarchy ;-P

Nov 13, 20 4:23 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

I ALSO MAKE JOKE

Nov 13, 20 4:24 pm  · 
2  · 
randomised

I saw he smiley!

Nov 13, 20 6:11 pm  · 
1  · 
Koww

the real question is who's hotter, AOC or Sarah Palin

Nov 13, 20 7:28 pm  · 
 · 
sameolddoctor

AOC mos def

Nov 13, 20 7:39 pm  · 
 · 
Koww

I don't know if I could handle the stress

Nov 13, 20 8:34 pm  · 
 · 
Koww

thiz is great


Nov 13, 20 9:48 pm  · 
3  · 
tduds

This thread:

Everybody Stopped

Nov 17, 20 1:14 pm  · 
5  · 
randomised

That’s not a mouse on the desk there.

Nov 18, 20 1:44 am  · 
 · 

Interesting how all the people in this thread who've been complaining about possible election fraud this whole time are suddenly nowhere to be found when the Georgia Secretary of State starts claiming that Lindsey Graham suggested he throw out legally cast ballots in a recent phone call.

Nov 17, 20 2:24 pm  · 
2  · 
SneakyPete

Interesting how you assume EA believes this particular voter fraud allegation without “proof"

Nov 18, 20 12:34 am  · 
2  · 
randomised

A legally cast ballot by the right person can still be thrown out if the signature doesn’t match, no?

Nov 18, 20 1:42 am  · 
 · 
randomised

Just “Blame Canada”...the Dominion Company that made some of the vote counting machines used is Canadian, but the Canadians don’t even trust them to count their own votes...

Nov 18, 20 2:00 am  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

I'm not saying x-lax IS a broken robot sent here by a toilet in the the future through a wormhole found in the sewer, just saying that they COULD be.

Nov 18, 20 2:02 am  · 
1  · 
randomised

They?

Nov 18, 20 4:33 am  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Let me get this straight, the dummy is onto the "Wuhan Vote" now?

Nov 18, 20 9:11 am  · 
 · 
BabbleBeautiful

While anything within the confines of our imagination is possible, if there was large-scale, coordinated voter fraud where it could flip the election I, and many others, would completely lose trust in our system which would influence generations to come. I don't think the US can afford this and would empower authoritarian-style leadership.

Nov 18, 20 10:24 am  · 
 · 
BabbleBeautiful

Edit: My point is... x-jla, if you can imagine this level of voter fraud is a possibility within our system can you also imagine the repercussions this would have? 

This question goes to anyone who genuinely believes in the possibility of this level of fraud.

Nov 18, 20 10:36 am  · 
 · 

That jla hasn't heard about this is more evidence that he gets his news in a right-wing bubble. To the question of whether I believe this particular allegation ... I have no reason to doubt it, but there's nothing there to go from. At most it was a suggestion that Graham is now denying. The Georgia SoS isn't going along with it, even if he were even able to ... so it's really a nothing burger unless you can prove the suggestion. At this point, it's just one man's word against another's. 

My point is that for all the people clamoring that there COULD have been fraud, this was probably the most damning, and would potentially have the largest, and most lasting effect had the Georgia SoS went along with it. The implication is that if Graham suggested it here and got caught, where else might he have "suggested" things and what might have happened because of those suggestions?* Again, those claiming that this election COULD have been rigged don't seem to want to investigate that allegation from the "left" like they do allegations from the "right." I find that interesting. 

*Do I personally think Graham did suggest things in other states? Not really, which is why I'm not saying we should be demanding an investigation like others are. But if anyone has credible evidence that there has been some foul play ... bring it forward.

Nov 18, 20 11:58 am  · 
1  · 

To further emphasize my point. Notice how jla simply puts forth in this case that the allegation could be true just like the other allegations ... essentially "both siding" us. Yet earlier when he posted the article about election machine glitches where the was nothing to the story, and I pointed that out, he doubled down with calls for an investigation into spurious allegations. 

Yet he's made no call for an investigation into this allegation when given the chance. His lack of consistency is showing his bias.

Nov 18, 20 12:05 pm  · 
 · 
square.

it's pretty clear at this point that x-lax is not a centrist, and absolutely, no way in hell, a libertarian.

Nov 18, 20 12:09 pm  · 
1  · 

randomised, in a normal election Georgia checks the signature on the absentee ballot against that voter's signature on file, then separates the ballot from the envelope and the ballot is counted. 

This year Georgia's Secretary of State added an extra step where the voter's signature on the request for an absentee ballot is checked against the voter's signature on file before they are sent a ballot. 

Then they check it again in the normal way when the ballot is returned. So absentee ballots in Georgia have been signature verified twice. Trump wants them to reconnect the ballot to the envelope and check a third time, which would violate the secret ballot language in Georgia's constitution.

Nov 18, 20 12:14 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

libertarian is a word shield right wingers hide behind so they can try to avoid the inevitable 'isms' that come along with right wing ideologies.

Nov 18, 20 12:31 pm  · 
3  · 

but jla is "FoR oPeN bOrDeRs!"

Nov 18, 20 12:44 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

"Libertarian"Image

Nov 18, 20 12:45 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

We very much understand it. You keep wedging your one feeling into every remotely tangential discussion with little, if any, new information. I can only speak for myself but I think we're all just tired of watching you repeat yourself.

Nov 18, 20 1:40 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

You think it's not impossible that there was election fraud. Cool. Got it. Got it weeks ago. Quit bringing it up unless you've got something new to contribute. You're mucking up the thread.

Nov 18, 20 1:40 pm  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

If saying Russian Troll Farms, colluding with Trump's Klan, to sow seeds of distrust, depressed voter turnout, then yeah, you muppet, Trump won through dishonest, and treasonous means.

Nov 18, 20 2:25 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

I don't self-identify as a liberal, dipshit. You love to call yourself a libertarian. So even if you were right (you aren't) it's not a counter-punch, it's just words. Congratulations, you said words. You fucking toddler.

Nov 18, 20 2:33 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

*counts minutes until x-lax claims victory because I seem to have gotten emotional*


Spoiler alert; stupid people piss me off.

Nov 18, 20 2:35 pm  · 
 · 
BabbleBeautiful

I identify myself as a "meat popsicle"

Nov 18, 20 2:43 pm  · 
 · 
BabbleBeautiful

JFC, you really like that deep rabbit hole, eh?

Nov 18, 20 2:50 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

If Russian troll farms were able to sway the election, [because there is evidence of them trying] what makes you think CCP and other foreign actors couldn’t sway it towards Biden? 

Because there's no evidence. If something comes to light, I'll treat it as reality. Until then, your "theory" is acknowledged.

Nov 18, 20 3:03 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Who do you vote for, genius?

Nov 18, 20 3:03 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

"you and I don’t know. Stop acting like you do" 

We *just* went over this.

Nov 18, 20 3:33 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Who do you vote for, genius?

Nov 18, 20 3:34 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Mayor of Hawthorne, Ca = President? 

GRASP HARDER AND THE STRAWS WILL BE YOURS!

Nov 18, 20 3:37 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

Who do you vote for, genius?

Nov 18, 20 4:26 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

No one has said fraud is nonexistent.

Nov 18, 20 4:42 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Go 'head, lecture me more about reading comprehension.

Nov 18, 20 4:42 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

I call it "The Purity Dodge"

Nov 18, 20 4:55 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Who do you vote for, genius? Not some nebulous bullshit response that allows you wiggle room. Who, BY NAME, do you vote for, genius?

Nov 18, 20 5:09 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

Yeah, that checks out.

Nov 18, 20 5:43 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

"...no chance of winning" Correct. "Therefore.." Incorrect

Nov 18, 20 5:47 pm  · 
1  · 
liberty bell

Chris Krebs has good pandemic hair.



Nov 17, 20 8:26 pm  · 
 · 
Koww

https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/wor...

Nov 18, 20 4:25 am  · 
 · 
tduds

What in the hell is this? I love it.

Nov 18, 20 12:38 pm  · 
 · 
AntonySilva

I'm just wondering how many people are here for Trump?

Nov 18, 20 9:23 am  · 
 · 
square.

i'm just wondering where you've been for the past 4 years?

by the way- he's got less than 2 months in office. might be relevant information.

Nov 18, 20 10:11 am  · 
 · 
tduds

"for Trump" for what?

Nov 18, 20 12:37 pm  · 
 · 
BabbleBeautiful

What's the deal with Trump going on a firing rampage again? I don't get it (genuinely).

Nov 18, 20 10:13 am  · 
 · 
randomised

Needs people he can trust around him, can't do a coup with people who disagree with you...

Nov 18, 20 10:21 am  · 
 · 
BabbleBeautiful

And what does that say about him in regards to the results of the election?

Nov 18, 20 10:31 am  · 
 · 
BabbleBeautiful

Well, I guess you answered that question already.

Nov 18, 20 10:38 am  · 
 · 
BabbleBeautiful

.

Nov 18, 20 10:45 am  · 
 · 
BabbleBeautiful

What I really wanted to say was: I considered that, but isn't it a little late in the game to be doing this? Sorry, my brain is kind of mushy this morning.

Nov 18, 20 11:05 am  · 
 · 
tduds

Your first mistake is assuming he knows what he's doing, rather than flailing wildly as his fragile psyche attempts to paper over reality.

Nov 18, 20 12:37 pm  · 
1  · 
BabbleBeautiful

What's my second? ;-)

I think he thinks he knows what he's doing, but underestimates reality, but there are obviously plenty of fools out there.

Nov 18, 20 12:41 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

My guess is that Trump never thought this far ahead and probably thought his second term would come easier...

Nov 18, 20 12:42 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Robust systems of accountability can operate independent of scale. Our government isn't too big, it's too concentrated within the executive.

Nov 18, 20 1:37 pm  · 
 · 
square.

wow, this is so profound, man.

Nov 18, 20 2:56 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Resilience is about systems that can withstand the inevitable breaking of parts. The number of parts is irrelevant.

Nov 18, 20 3:00 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

Big countries usually need big governments, also if you want citizens to have a decent quality of life you need big governments to achieve that...look at countries with higher living standards that better look after their people, all social democratic countries with large-ish governments...can’t trust corporations to handle that all

Nov 18, 20 3:18 pm  · 
3  · 
square.

your critical thinking skills are corrupt.

Nov 18, 20 4:56 pm  · 
1  · 
BabbleBeautiful

x-jla, ok so from what I've gathered you think corporations and governments are either corruptible or corrupt. Both headed by human beings. What's your solution or answer to this?

Nov 18, 20 5:55 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

The opposite of "bad" is not "none"

Nov 18, 20 5:57 pm  · 
 · 
BabbleBeautiful

Also, do you think countries such as Sweden, Switzerland, Finland
or...Norway are corrupt?

Nov 18, 20 6:15 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

..what

Nov 19, 20 1:17 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

And why is Switzerland an example of that, uh, "culture" but not Florida?

Nov 19, 20 3:38 pm  · 
 · 
BabbleBeautiful

I agree with you on that, x, however I don't think it's practical. If we have to work with and within the system that we have created over generations and exist in, what can we do? We can't get everyone into a drum circle and do shrooms together...

Also, I'm curious to know why you singled-out Switzerland.

Nov 19, 20 4:03 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

I take the opposite view, I believe our so-described cultural & educational decline is proof that the political trajectory we're on is failing. All the things you describe coincide with the slow dismantling of the social safety net during and since the Reagan years. To suggest that our present is not a creation of our politics but a reason why we don't deserve better seems, to me, a backwards correlation. 

 Also Doritos locos tacos are amazing and I won't hear any of your slander.

Nov 19, 20 5:04 pm  · 
 · 
square.

therE'S nO DiffErenCe BETwEeN Biden ANd TRUmP

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/1...

Nov 18, 20 11:27 am  · 
2  · 
SneakyPete

x-lax: I need everyone to be perfect, otherwise I will criticize, but I am not perfect. I also accuse others of hypocrisy without a single hint of irony.

Nov 18, 20 2:29 pm  · 
3  · 
SneakyPete

You are the best example of unintentional irony I have ever seen.

Nov 18, 20 3:34 pm  · 
2  ·  1
SneakyPete

I know you do.

Nov 18, 20 5:42 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

This is a great essay that I'm sure will stir no controversy among the users here: 

"The implication is the usual one: we—urban multiethnic liberal-to-radical only-partly-Christian America—need to spend more time understanding MAGA America. The demands do not go the other way. Fox and Ted Cruz and the Federalist have not chastised their audiences, I feel pretty confident, with urgings to enter into discourse with, say, Black Lives Matter activists, rabbis, imams, abortion providers, undocumented valedictorians, or tenured lesbians. When only half the divide is being tasked with making the peace, there is no peace to be made, but there is a unilateral surrender on offer. We are told to consider this bipartisanship"

https://lithub.com/rebecca-sol...

Nov 19, 20 3:47 pm  · 
3  ·  1
tduds

Use your head it's already up there.

Nov 19, 20 5:06 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

Or, let's not say that.

Nov 19, 20 5:24 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Someone links an article written by a woman and one of the first things you do is find a photo and comment on her looks. Classy.

Nov 19, 20 5:51 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Since you had to shit up the thread, here's the same sentiment, put more bluntly:

https://www.aljazeera.com/opin...

Nov 19, 20 6:01 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Lemme do it for him: AL JAZEERA!? WHAT ARE YOU A TERRORIST?!@

Nov 19, 20 6:14 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

.

Nov 19, 20 8:12 pm  · 
 · 

Saw this one on Twitter this morning:

Nov 19, 20 8:23 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised

Throwback Thursday!


“America’s leaders saw nothing wrong with electoral interference, so long as the United States was conducting it.


https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/07/the-us-has-a-long-history-of-election-meddling/565538/





Nov 19, 20 6:06 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Person got lucky where he was born: uses it to justify bad hot takes!

Nov 19, 20 6:13 pm  · 
3  · 
tduds

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Nov 19, 20 6:20 pm  · 
2  · 
randomised

Hahaha so because I was born in a country different than yours I can’t point out the facts of American election interference (worldwide!), you sure are scared of the facts that you need to introduce such a nationalistic argument...”America First”...

also this is not whataboutism at all, this is proven American election interference, clearly shows a pattern where the American establishment meddles in the democratic process worldwide...why this establishment wouldn’t use their powers at home to get the candidate of their choosing, one must be very “naive” to think that impossible.

Nov 20, 20 2:01 am  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

"you" are the dumb ass who can't seem to differentiate between a country's leaders and a country's citizenry. "you" get a big ol' holier than thou stiffy because you happened to be born somewhere. Being born Dutch doesn't mean you're better than anyone, and your behavior consistently indicates the opposite.

Nov 20, 20 3:07 am  · 
2  · 
randomised

I can perfectly differentiate between the two of you and "you" and y'all, what's the problem with acknowledging that the US has interfered in many elections over the years. And because your chosen officials and agencies know how to do that, why is it so hard to imagine that the same power structure that interferes elsewhere could be at play at home? We saw that with the corrupt DNC, we saw that with Ukraine, etc. America likes to do as they please and is all about democracy but only when the results are what they need them to be. Sorry for pointing out that hypocrisy and the subsequent hurting of your feelings. That doesn't mean I'm better, I just have a clearer perspective on things and can connect dots you're not even aware of or care that much about...

Nov 20, 20 3:52 am  · 
 · 
square.

hey rando, little hint here: no one cares about your opinion of america, even though your smug ass continues to think otherwise. while we have a better understanding than you and are able to critize our country independently, you have 0 credibility or relevance on these issues, and to be honest i find it a little bizarre you spend so much time trying to understand things like the dnc. surely there must be something better you can do with your time.

by the way- you're welcome for those mcdonalds.

Nov 20, 20 9:32 am  · 
 · 
randomised

You can take those mcdonalds and your weapons of mass destruction and shove 'em where the sun don't shine, I will stop bothering with American politics when your American nuclear warheads and troops leave my country and when Americans stop meddling and interfering all over the globe. Stay the fuck on your own continent and leave the rest of the world alone, it really is that simple.

You seem to care enough about my opinions to be responding and replying to them, ha! I don't need to spend time understanding things like the dnc, I already understand those things, I've lived and worked in the US, still have friends there and have American friends here in good old Europe. I can't think of a better way to spend my time than to school a bunch of America First National Socialist Democrats, it's for a good cause, my gift to the world!

Nov 20, 20 10:14 am  · 
 · 
square.

ok buddy. just letting you know how it looks to obsess over another country's politics on an architecture forum.

Nov 20, 20 10:31 am  · 
 · 
randomised

I’m not obsessed with just another country’s politics, I’m a concerned citizen of the world, your politics is our politics unfortunately...the impact of my well being and the future of the world is directly impacted by whatever the fuck you guys decide and who you choose to invade or who’s election you decide to interfere in...

Nov 20, 20 12:14 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Born on third, tells everyone he hit a triple.

Nov 20, 20 12:15 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

I used to use my country of origin to justify my smug sense of superiority. Luckily I graduated middle school and learned that I needed to earn those feelings regardless of my birthplace.

Nov 20, 20 12:22 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised

“Imperialism, we learned it from watching you Dutch!” No you didn’t...you learned it from the Brits, all we did is give New York it’s famous attitude :-P

Nov 20, 20 12:26 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

The irony here is that if you were just criticizing the government of the US we'd probably all leave the statement unchallenged, since most of us have similar criticisms. But you felt the trumpian need to tar and feather us individually for the sins of our government.

Nov 20, 20 12:32 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

The Dutch East India Company would like a word.

Nov 20, 20 12:33 pm  · 
2  · 
randomised

“ Born on third, tells everyone he hit a triple.” I know I’m lucky to be born here, with all the means and opportunities that are attached to that, that’s why I try to spread all that privileged wisdom and knowledge to you unfortunate schmucks across the pond. Just holding up a mirror for you guys to see yourself how the rest of the world sees you...But it is clear that all that saluting to the flag and god bless America bs has produced quite the distorted view of reality across the entire political spectrum.

Nov 20, 20 12:34 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

“But you felt the trumpian need to tar and feather us individually for the sins of our government.” That’s your interpretation, if you feel personally tarred or feathered for me critiquing American politics and its nasty nationalism from left to right, that says more about you than it says about me...

Nov 20, 20 12:48 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

“ The Dutch East India Company would like a word.” Ah yes, the world’s first multinational company, had more to do with international trade and the invention of capitalism than it did with imperialism by the way...all about them Florins.

Nov 20, 20 12:52 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

...

"if you feel personally tarred or feathered for me critiquing American politics and its nasty nationalism from left to right, that says more about you than it says about me..."

No. I feel that you are targeting me because you are. You are intentionally using direct language to INDIVIDUALS when you know goddamn well we have only a limited ability to affect our country's foreign policy, you SEE us out demonstrating against those policies, and you still feel the need to criticize individuals. This indicates that you are a shitty person who takes pleasure in directing barbs at individuals. Full stop. Your "rubber and glue" protestations are garbage. You know this. You don't care. Ergo you are a prick.

Nov 20, 20 1:09 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

You say that like capitalism & imperialism are seperable.

Nov 20, 20 2:25 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

Imperialism is an inevitable conclusion of unfettered capitalism. Your other observations are the usual irrelevant whataboutisms and passionate flailing about for binary opposites where none are necessary or welcome.

Nov 20, 20 4:22 pm  · 
1  · 
BabbleBeautiful

I figured imperialism and capitalism kind of go hand-in-hand these days.

Nov 20, 20 4:41 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

"people eating other people because it doesn’t work." 

The Donner Party would like a word.

Nov 20, 20 4:48 pm  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

The level of brutally hilarious comments = 100% gold

Nov 20, 20 7:00 pm  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

^dumb

Nov 20, 20 7:26 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

It's Friday afternoon, go have a drink man.

Nov 20, 20 8:03 pm  · 
1  ·  1
randomised

“ Ergo you are a prick”

I’m still right though...you vote for people and parties that commit war crimes, that interfere in other countries and overthrow democratically chosen governments, that kill innocent civilians for domestic re-election and power or lower prices at the pump. That’s all on you, not on me...does that make me a prick? So be it...at least I don’t enable mass murder. If you don’t support such policies don’t vote for parties and people that execute such policies, it is that simple...It’s like saying you vote for Hitler because he’s a vegetarian and loves dogs and don’t want anything to do with his concentration camps...it doesn’t work that way. The people you vote for have blood on their hands, you can’t wash that off yours so easily, blood is thicker than that and you know it.

Nov 22, 20 7:38 am  · 
 · 
randomised

Sort of...if you vote for American imperialists don’t act surprised when they invade other countries and commit mass murder and do as they promised...

Nov 22, 20 2:01 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

You're fucking clueless. Born on third, telling everyone that with enough practice they can hit triple just like you did.

Nov 22, 20 2:50 pm  · 
2  · 
SneakyPete

We say we agree with the idea of not being involved in foreign wars. Instead of finding that common ground appealing you ignore it in favor of attacking us for having been born in America and not having the power to immediately change the entire country. That's why you're a prick. Because when given a choice between dialogue and petty personal attacks that take effort to create, you salivate over the chance to demonize individuals for the crimes of their countrys leadership.

Nov 22, 20 2:52 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised

Not an illusion: “ The United States relies too heavily on our military might in foreign policy. For more than a decade, our country has been waging active wars in the Middle East. This has left our military tired, with several thousand dead, and many more thousands wounded physically and mentally.

A decade ago, the United States entered into nation building thinking that it would help improve corners of the world that terrorists find opportunistic. Sadly, some of the nation building which our country entered into with genuinely good intentions has backfired. We now know that no matter how sophisticated our military is and no matter how much money we spend, nation building is far more complicated that we originally thought. Additionally, it may likely create more terrorists than it quells.

Imagine if China had a military base in Montana. Or Russia had a military base in Texas. How would Americans feel about that? We would likely feel insulted, oppressed, and mad. Some Americans would likely seek to actively opposed those bases. And the escalation would continue. That is what we have seen in the Middle East with our involvement there.

Libertarians believe that war is justified only in defense. We are opposed to a draft. If a war is just and necessary, Americans of all backgrounds will volunteer to fight it. We believe that a draft enforced by law is no different from slavery.”

Nov 22, 20 2:54 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Minorities in America were promoting the ideals that "libertarian" grifters have been parroting for decades before it was accepted by white folks.

Nov 22, 20 4:19 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

So I hope that's what you mean by "we."

Nov 22, 20 4:19 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

You steal a bunch of philosophies from social communities that are minority, package them under a bunch of white freedom loving politicians, and then claim because they're "political" they're therefore yours. Classic grifter bullshit.

Nov 22, 20 6:10 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

“We say we agree with the idea of not being involved in foreign wars. Instead of finding that common ground appealing you ignore it in favor of attacking us for having been born in America and not having the power to immediately change the entire country. That's why you're a prick. Because when given a choice between dialogue and petty personal attacks that take effort to create, you salivate over the chance to demonize individuals for the crimes of their countrys leadership.”

Not really, whenever I say that Trump is not that bad from a foreigner’s perspective on the scale of the planet and world peace or whatever, all I get is attacked. You, yes you, don’t allow for any discussion or views that don’t align with your narrow tunnel. And when being called out on that you act like the victim here, when you’re nothing but a bully demonising anyone that doesn’t jump in line...like a true Trumper/trooper. If I wouldn’t like a political party for their mass murdering I simply wouldn’t vote for them, you choose otherwise, that’s on you and only on you. You are not after dialogue at all, don’t kid yourself, just trying to wash your hands like Pilates...while enjoying all the perks of being that global super power. I just call out the hypocrisy as I see it.

Nov 24, 20 1:59 am  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

You don't have a clue.


Nov 24, 20 3:21 am  · 
1  · 
randomised

I'm pointing out YOUR hypocrisy.

Nov 24, 20 6:05 am  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

You don't even know whether you mean me or the country in which I live. Maybe it's a language problem?

Nov 24, 20 11:10 am  · 
 · 
randomised

Oh I know...question is do you?

Nov 24, 20 11:43 am  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

I know you are but what am I?

Nov 24, 20 11:48 am  · 
 · 
randomised

The memories, the fun we had...thanks for this repost from the Autonomous Zone thread! Anything else?

Nov 24, 20 12:47 pm  · 
 · 
square.

you're such a clown.

Recent news reports have exposed Dutch involvement in an airstrike in  Iraq in June 2015 that killed at least 70 civilians, with the Minister of Defense finally admitting on November 5, 2019 that the ministry had known about the deaths after years of denial.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/11/13/new-revelations-dutch-role-deadly-iraq-attack#

Nov 24, 20 2:50 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

What do you want from me, what’s your fucking point? I didn’t vote for any of the parties involved during the air strike or the denial. It all happened under duress during the Obama administration, for which you voted I’m sure. You know why the Dutch were there in the first place, forced by you lot...to make your blood for oil invasion look like an international effort. Nice try though...love how people here are learning stuff about Holland just to find things to stick to me, maybe you can throw in an Austin Powers meme or something and be totally woke!

Nov 24, 20 3:29 pm  · 
 ·  1
Non Sequitur

I bought some nice cigars while in Holland.

Nov 24, 20 3:31 pm  · 
 · 
square.

i demand that you, as an anonymous individual, answer for the totality of your country's decisions that lead to innocent civilian bloodshed, on this architecture forum.

Nov 24, 20 3:43 pm  · 
2  · 
SneakyPete

Me: "I feel that you are targeting me because you are. You are intentionally using direct language to INDIVIDUALS when you know goddamn well we have only a limited ability to affect our country's foreign policy, you SEE us out demonstrating against those policies, and you still feel the need to criticize individuals. "


You: "I’m still right though...you vote for people and parties that commit war crimes, that interfere in other countries and overthrow democratically chosen governments, that kill innocent civilians for domestic re-election and power or lower prices at the pump. That’s all on you, not on me."

Me: "We say we agree with the idea of not being involved in foreign wars."

square: "Recent news reports have exposed Dutch involvement in an airstrike in  Iraq in June 2015 that killed at least 70 civilians, with the Minister of Defense finally admitting on November 5, 2019 that the ministry had known about the deaths after years of denial."

You: "What do you want from me, what’s your fucking point? I didn’t vote for any of the parties involved during the air strike or the denial. "


Nov 24, 20 4:33 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

Sad how you dance and chortle with glee when you get to sling the mud at our Country's leadership with no consideration to the fact that real humans who agree with much of what you believe are at the receiving end of your posts and then cry like a sad, little  toddler when someone does the same thing to you.

Nov 24, 20 4:40 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised

you vote for mass murderers, I never did...huge difference! so, who's a hypocrite here, sure it's not me as I stay true to my beliefs, morals and principles :-P

Nov 24, 20 5:10 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

You assume you know who we all voted for. You also demand we believe you when you say you didn't vote for the assholes who jumped on the bombing bandwagon. You haven't earned the right to assume anything nor have you earned the trust needed to believe you wouldn't lie just to win an argument. So impasses being impasses, I still think you're a prick based in your resolute disinterest in building a coalition of ideas with us and can firmly and finally go get fucked.

Nov 24, 20 6:06 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

I’m sure as hell you voted for those mass murderers Pilates, what are you so ashamed of...sorry to call you out but that’s just the way the cookie crumbles. You have no interest in building that coalition at all, you only bring that up now when all is lost and your hypocrisy has been exposed...

Nov 24, 20 6:28 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Whatever you need to tell yourself to look in the mirror without vomiting, I guess.

Nov 24, 20 9:07 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

The realisation I’m not you is all it takes :-P

Nov 25, 20 1:51 am  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

When you say you do you mean you or YOU? You seem to not know the difference.

Nov 25, 20 11:34 am  · 
 · 
square.

It all happened under duress during the Obama administration, for which you voted I’m sure. You know why the Dutch were there in the first place, forced by you lot...to make your blood for oil invasion look like an international effort.

so you've admitted that the dutch are nothing but subservient pawns in america's game, making you and your country complicit in the very imperialism you unsuccessfully tried to distance yourself from.

i've seen enough.

Nov 25, 20 12:23 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

Easy for you to say with your nukes and your army...of course the Dutch are pawns in your imperialistic endgame...why else would you occupy us? We are as complicit as hostages being forced to do all kinds of stuff by their hostage takers...whatever bad shit you force us to do, it is all on you! Oh and if only you would have seen enough you wouldn’t be voting the way you do and be so ashamed of the actions your elected officials are pursuing in your name with your personal mandate under their belts...

Nov 25, 20 12:55 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

I DO NOT HAVE ANY NUKES OR AN ARMY YOU DISINGENUOUS BLOWHARD.

Nov 25, 20 1:19 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Fixed it for you:

Easy for you to say with AMERICA'S nukes and AMERICA'S army...of course the Dutch are pawns in AMERICA'S imperialistic endgame...why else would AMERICA occupy us? THE DUTCH are as complicit as hostages being forced to do all kinds of stuff by their hostage takers...whatever bad shit AMERICA force THE DUTCH to do, it is all on AMERICA'S LEADERSHIP! THE REST OF THIS IS BULLSHIT MUDDYING THE WATER SO I CAN KEEP FEELING SUPERIOR WHILE AVOIDING THE COGNITIVE STRESS OF SEPARATING THE INDIVIDUALS TO WHOM I AM SPEAKING FROM THE GIANT VILLAIN I HAVE MADE UP IN MY HEAD!

Nov 25, 20 1:21 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

But you vote and thereby support that particular leadership and their politics...your hands are not clean, that’s too damn easy. People that voted NSDAP were not innocent either...

Nov 27, 20 4:26 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

You are wrong, and a liar.

Nov 27, 20 9:04 pm  · 
1  · 
Koww

republican supreme court justices reassigned to supervise all swing states... nothing to see here

Nov 20, 20 11:32 pm  · 
 · 
Koww's comment has been hidden
Koww

well the fat lady's singing... 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/d...

Nov 23, 20 6:47 pm  · 
 · 

This thread used to be fun(-ish). Now it's just people ignoring reality, repeating the same things, trashing each other's nationalities, and calling each other names ... oh and some sexism thrown in for good measure.

What happened to the dumpster fires.

Nov 24, 20 5:24 pm  · 
2  · 
Wood Guy

Seems like a pretty accurate microcosm of political reality these days?

Nov 24, 20 8:09 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

BREAKING!: https://howbidenstoletheelection.com/

Nov 24, 20 6:35 pm  · 
5  · 
Non Sequitur

I’m glad I clicked on that.

Nov 24, 20 7:08 pm  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]


.

Nov 25, 20 7:32 am  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

Oh, we talking about Malcolm X now? Cool. Cool.

Nov 25, 20 11:34 am  · 
2  · 
SneakyPete

You don't like apples, you say? Well just wait until you hear about ORANGES!

Nov 25, 20 11:58 am  · 
4  · 
SneakyPete

If you feel like you made a good point in this thread, just wait a few posts and you'll get another chance when the goalposts magically move. 


Nov 25, 20 12:00 pm  · 
1  · 

My copy of The Fountainhead is sandwiched on my bookshelf between a Che Guevarra biography and Isabel Allende's, La casa de los espíritus.

Nov 25, 20 1:09 pm  · 
2  · 
randomised

Oranges? You mean Chinese apples!

Nov 25, 20 1:12 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

Never read Ayn Rand, am reading the Dalai Lama however and ‘How To Be Compassionate’

Nov 25, 20 1:14 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Does it have a chapter on treating people well while disagreeing with their governments? Or does it say "be sure to lump everyone into a category based on whatever thing connects them that you hate and then browbeat them with it until they decide you're an asshole?"

Nov 25, 20 1:17 pm  · 
1  · 

It must be nice living in a world where everything is black and white with absolutely no gray.

Nov 25, 20 1:51 pm  · 
3  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

It makes me ill, that a troglodyte brings up a great man like Malcom, and only focuses on out of context quotes, without acknowledging the relevant context, or that the beloved minister evolved, is gross beyond words.

Nov 25, 20 2:08 pm  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

"He dropped the Black Muslims’ line of promoting black capitalism, in a way which Breitman shows must have been deliberate and considered — though he never openly argued against it, and never came out clearly with an alternative.


He denounced capitalism: “You can’t have capitalism without racism... You can’t operate a capitalistic system unless you are vulturistic; you have to have someone else’s blood to suck to be a capitalist...” He told Breitman’s comrade Harry Ring that he “felt it necessary for his people to consider socialist solutions to their problem. But as the leader of the movement, he said, it was necessary to present this concept in a way that would be understandable to his people and would not isolate him from them”."


Nov 25, 20 2:19 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Your both-sides-ism is disgusting.

Nov 25, 20 2:27 pm  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Ayn Rand was waste of flesh, wrote some fiction, had little impact on anyone worth talking about, was wrong about everything, and sucked the teat of socialism when it suited her. In other words; a typical, good for nothing, Libertarian whore.

Nov 25, 20 2:32 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

“Does it have a chapter on treating people well while disagreeing with their governments? ”

It’s about the fact that negative emotions such as anger will only cause more anger. Therefore I will always try to treat people well when pointing out their supporting of mass murdering American imperialist pigs. So the book is basically a lesson about your American imperialism (by the people that you vote for so passionately) and how you bully the world in fulfilling your needs at the expense of others and that that will never really satisfy and only cause more hurt.


“Or does it say "be sure to lump everyone into a category based on whatever thing connects them that you hate and then browbeat them with it until they decide you're an asshole?"”

Not everybody is lumped into that category, but people like yourself who vote for warmongering imperialistic mass murderers are in it obviously. I can really recommend the book, such negative connotations and emotions as to calling people an asshole will only make you suffer more and get more anger in return and won’t bring you any further or open a peaceful dialogue. Namaste!

Nov 25, 20 3:04 pm  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

I'm an equal opportunity whore caller; laxative, you're a whore, Paul Ryan is a whore, Trump is a whore. John Paul II is a whore. They all sucked the same teat.

Nov 25, 20 3:15 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

YOU. DON'T. KNOW. WHO. I. VOTE. FOR.

Nov 25, 20 4:40 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

And calling you an asshole isn't harming to my health, unless the truth is harmful.

Nov 25, 20 4:40 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

Now you're even shouting, think of your blood pressure! And I do know who you vote for, it's called deductive reasoning...you vote for mass murdering American imperialists that support the military industrial complex.

Nov 25, 20 5:10 pm  · 
 ·  1
b3tadine[sutures]

^meh

Nov 25, 20 6:38 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

You're a prick, rando.

Nov 25, 20 8:14 pm  · 
2  · 
randomised

I might be a prick but I’m right and you vote for mass murdering American imperialists that support the military industrial complex who wage illegal wars all over the planet, I’d rather be the prick...

Nov 26, 20 3:26 am  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

You're not right and are also a prick.

Nov 26, 20 5:16 am  · 
1  · 
randomised

Wouldn’t have guessed you were a Trump voter but here we are...I honestly deducted you voted Dronebama, Killary or GI Joe Biden

Nov 26, 20 7:26 am  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Keep assuming, ass.

Nov 26, 20 12:28 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

Happy Thanksgiving, you prick.

Nov 26, 20 12:29 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised

Happy? Sorry but I don’t celebrate genocide...

Nov 26, 20 4:43 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Hahaha. What a prick.

Nov 26, 20 6:20 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised

Yeah you are... “One indication of moral progress in the United States would be the replacement of Thanksgiving Day and its self-indulgent family feasting with a National Day of Atonement accompanied by a self-reflective collective fasting.”

Nov 27, 20 2:24 am  · 
 · 
randomised

But you just be you SP, totally fits with who you vote for: supporting mass murder abroad and genocide at home...

Nov 27, 20 2:26 am  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Go tell it to Zwarte Piet, ya prick.

Nov 27, 20 11:03 am  · 
1  · 
randomised

Red Herring!

Nov 27, 20 11:45 am  · 
 · 
randomised

Hey SneakyPiet don’t forget your red herring!

Nov 27, 20 12:50 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

“ That’s doesn’t sound like much fun. ”

Since when is genocide fun?

Nov 27, 20 12:52 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

You fuckers don't like it when whataboutisms get used on you, but you sure do love to shove them into your posts any chance you get. I'm just here to point out the HYPOCRACY.

Nov 27, 20 12:55 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Hilarious.

Nov 27, 20 12:55 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

If the shoe fits...go fuck off with your whataboutery, go celebrate some genocide and vote for mass murderers SneakyPilates...namaste hahaha!

Nov 27, 20 1:24 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

You're not very funny.

Nov 27, 20 3:07 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised

And you’re not very sneaky! Exposing your hypocrisy and whataboutery is great fun though, thanks!

Nov 27, 20 4:14 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

x-jla, I think it is inappropriate to be celebrating, Germans don’t celebrate the 1st of September, nor do the Poles, and for good reason im(h)o.

Nov 27, 20 4:19 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

The only things you're exposing are your own figurative genitals. Shall we continue kicking them?

Nov 27, 20 4:43 pm  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Honestly, the Dutch are such a pompous, insignificant little tit of a country, all they can do is punch up. It's a good thing we sent them McDonald's and KFC, without it, the spiciest thing they'd have to eat, and probably the most interesting culinary feat, is that damn cookie. I mean the most relevant things that Holland is known for are things they stole from other countries, blue painted ceramic, China, flowers, Turkey, painting, Italy, slave trade in the western world, they invented that. I mean America wouldn't be America if it wasn't for the failings of Dutch "diplomacy" and their bending over for Adolf. America may be responsible for bombing countries, more than half of America disagrees with, but who in Holland is going to hold their country accountable for Rem and the Dutch working with tyrants and dictators throughout the world? Not the Dutch of course, their cowardice is well known.

Nov 27, 20 5:43 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

Ah whatab3tism 2.0 joined the party, great!

Nov 27, 20 6:23 pm  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Five words you'll never hear on this planet; What do the Dutch think? You know why? No one gives a shit.

Nov 27, 20 6:29 pm  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

The Dutch are like Jed Klampet, went hunting, shot a hole in the ground, black shit bubbles up, and they think they discovered oil.

Nov 27, 20 6:31 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

*You forgot to insert an Austin Powers meme, and apparently you do give a shit or you wouldn’t be replying! :-P

Nov 27, 20 6:49 pm  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

See what I meme? I never asked what you thought.

Nov 27, 20 7:15 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

"apparently you do give a shit or you wouldn’t be replying"

Replying is a form of shit cleaning, in this case.

Nov 27, 20 8:32 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised

Sure SP, whatever you need to tell yourself to sleep at night...I wouldn’t be able to if I’d vote for mass murderers and imperialists like you do. What’s your secret, narcotics or alcohol or both like b3ta?

Nov 30, 20 2:24 am  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Naw, neither, racist slave trader, imperialist OG. I forget, do they allow you to vote in Holland, or does the Queen not allow that?

Nov 30, 20 5:47 am  · 
 · 
randomised

*neither racist nor slave trader nor imperialist OG. There fixed it for ya!

And fyi when I vote I don't vote for imperialist mass murderers as you do by supporting Dronebama, Killary and GI Joe Biden...all that blood on your hands, your keyboard must be a freakin' mess!

Nov 30, 20 6:08 am  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

I see you human market trader. You might be able to paste over good tasting food with whatever suffices as sustanence in that northern European country, but you can't whitewash your history. All that paste in your hands, your djick must be a ramshackle of nubbin. I'd go on about the blood of the Dutch, but I haven't found that you have a pulse...sad, really sad about the Dutch, they were never great.

Nov 30, 20 8:07 am  · 
 · 
randomised

The only fact here is that how you personally vote b3ta, you support imperialism, war crimes and mass murder. You can try to pin Dutch failings on me personally, but I've never supported any mass murder or imperialism with my vote. You have and continue to do so...


Nov 30, 20 8:18 am  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

This is just for you.



Nov 30, 20 9:07 am  · 
 · 
randomised

You're as predictable as my bowel movements...

Nov 30, 20 10:33 am  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

You get such glee from being a prick. What a prick.

Nov 30, 20 11:02 am  · 
 · 
randomised

I wish I didn't have to be...

Nov 30, 20 11:13 am  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Spoiler alert: You don't.

Nov 30, 20 11:49 am  · 
 · 
randomised

Of course I have to, I wouldn't be able to look myself in the mirror if I didn't rub your face in it time and time again that you're supporting war criminals, mass murderers and imperialists with your vote. You know just as well that silence or neutrality on such pressing matters always supports the oppressor/aggressor!

Nov 30, 20 12:06 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

You are a disingenuous prick. I know it gives you a chub to pretend to be better, but you're still just a pathetic, lying prick.

Nov 30, 20 3:42 pm  · 
 · 
Volunteer's comment has been hidden
Volunteer

One new poll finds that 30% of the Democrats think the election was stolen from Trump. 

Nov 25, 20 2:32 pm  · 
 ·  2
randomised

But unfortunately there is no hard evidence to back up the stealing, I haven’t seen it at least. So they either didn’t do it or they are getting away with it...

Nov 25, 20 2:48 pm  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Yeah. Rasmussen. Incredibly accurate.

Nov 25, 20 3:52 pm  · 
 · 
curtkram

jla, i don't think we're doing "deplorables" any more. edward nortan had a very informative tweet where he introduced the new moniker "10-ply-super-soft bitch." i hope that's more palatable for yours and volunteer's tribe. https://twitter.com/EdwardNort...

Nov 25, 20 9:55 pm  · 
1  · 
Wood Guy

Volunteer, I saw someone else post that stat but they could not back it up with a link, and I couldn't find it online. I don't believe it for a second, unless they are including gerrymandering, kneecapping the postal service, removing polling stations where people are likely to vote Democratic, and other actions that benefit Republicans. But if it's legitimate I'd like to know.

Nov 27, 20 11:33 am  · 
 · 

Protip: When a media outlet chooses to use the word "Whoa" in a headline, question it's bias and journalistic integrity. 

The poll the article cites was conducted by Rasmussen. They don't mention this stat in their own write-up, and the polling data is hidden behind a paywall so I'm not able to directly verify it, nor the question (which may or may not be misunderstood/leading). I'm not finding other news sources to corroborate what the article is stating, though it is notable that Rasmussen retweeted a similar article quoting the first indicating that the polling data backs it up. However, Rasmussen isn't regarded as a high quality pollster so I'd treat it with skepticism until other polling agencies start to see the same type of data. As far as what I can find, this is simply one data point, which may be misrepresenting reality reported on by a less than factual and extremely biased media outlet.

Nov 27, 20 1:02 pm  · 
1  · 

My comment that you're quoting was in reference to media corroboration. I've seen the one article you posted pulling out the "30% of Democrats" number that you're fixating on as proof of something. The article that Rasmussen tweeted wasn't corroboration because it was simply quoting the first. In other words, if the 30% was all that notable, you'd find many media outlets reporting on it from lots of different political biases. So far there seems to be only one, with one more that is copy/pasting that one, and a polling firm tweeting about the second. That there isn't wide media corroboration calls into question the validity of the claim being made by the one outlet pushing the narrative. The fact that that same media outlet is regarded as extremely biased, has been found to fail fact checking, and is regarded as questionable means that you probably shouldn't give much weight at all to the claim until it is corroborated by other reputable news sources. Beyond that, your claim that the poll calls into question Biden's election is very far from reality. 

The poll doesn't call into question Biden's election at all ... that's your own perceptual bias of the data coming through. The data indicates that a portion of people think the election was stolen from Trump (something plenty of media outlets have reported by referencing this poll and others). You are simply cherry picking the data from one poll (30% of Democrats think the election was stolen from Trump) to support your belief that the election was fraudulent ... something with no evidence to support it (people's beliefs expressed to pollsters is not evidence regardless of their political affiliation). What the poll does call into question is the validity of polling people's beliefs as a way to ascertain the reality of events. It also calls into question the general education of the American electorate but that's something else entirely.

Nov 27, 20 2:59 pm  · 
 · 
curtkram

how about the federal appellate courts that keeping kicking out his frivolous lawsuits? i like to think they're pretty middle of the road and not too biased.

Nov 27, 20 7:16 pm  · 
2  · 
SneakyPete

Trump's lawsuits get tossed by his own appointees.

Nov 27, 20 8:32 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

So, Trump appointed some very fine people that are doing a very fine job!

Nov 30, 20 4:47 am  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Happy Thanksgiving everyone, or as Ayn Rand liked to call it; Fuck Giving I'm Taking All Your Shit, but I'll have Pecan Pie if You Don't Mind, Day!

Nov 25, 20 3:37 pm  · 
 ·  1
randomised

“Fuck Giving I'm Taking All Your Shit, but I'll have Pecan Pie if You Don't Mind, Day!”

That’s exactly how the Native Americans view your holiday...well put!

Nov 25, 20 3:44 pm  · 
2  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Um, First Nations People. Get it right. You people seem to forget something key; We, are you, and you are Us.

Nov 25, 20 3:51 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

Thanksgiving was in October. Ya'll late to the party. Please send leftovers and  2 slices of pumpkin pie.

Nov 26, 20 4:55 pm  · 
2  · 
curtkram

that's because you guys measure Thanksgiving in metric

Nov 26, 20 6:28 pm  · 
3  · 
Volunteer's comment has been hidden
Volunteer

Twitters new censor:  “As a queer women of color who is an Asian American in tech in rural America, that experience is a very intersectional one." (Her verbatim words)

Dunno, I would start her out in a remedial writing course. 

Nov 27, 20 11:27 am  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Libertarians are classified in DSM-5

Nov 27, 20 1:45 pm  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

You mean how "Twitters" is spelled incorrectly? You racist, misogynist hump.

Nov 27, 20 1:46 pm  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Ayn Rand was a waste of flesh, and a liar.

Nov 27, 20 2:22 pm  · 
1  · 
Wood Guy

Much like Trump, she gave the selfish license to be more selfish. We can't move forward as a society if everyone only worries about themselves.

Nov 27, 20 3:24 pm  · 
2  · 
SneakyPete

You try and you try and you try to come up with pithy sayings of substance buy all you ever
end up with is a tangled mess of words.

Nov 27, 20 4:42 pm  · 
1  ·  1
SneakyPete

Oh, I cannot wait to see what your addlepated brain can come up with to draw, considering the amount of skill you show with words.

Nov 27, 20 4:50 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

Oh, is that what that idiotic, outdated, and pathetically abused flag is called?

Nov 29, 20 11:22 am  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Again, the ADJECTIVE describes the NOUN.

Nov 29, 20 1:17 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

The question is based on a flawed premise. I don't fight straw men. You are, as usual, begging the question. You're a bundle of logical fallacies. You are a human-shaped waste of time.

Nov 29, 20 2:12 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. I had you on ignore for years, you tiny intellect. Thanks for giving me the impetus for doing it again. The entire forum thanks you, since my replies to you seem to only cause you to double down on your abject stupidity and tenacious ignorance.

Nov 29, 20 7:40 pm  · 
 · 

Have we discussed this from Politico re: 'Toke-lahoma', yet?

Nov 28, 20 10:29 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Discussion? In this thread? You'd be better off asking "Has x-lax defectated endlessly onto this topic yet?"

Nov 29, 20 11:24 am  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

I think the medical marijuana farce is sad. This country needs the farcical step of pretending that it's about medicinals to get to the logical step of decriminalizing and then legalizing what has historically been used to control and punish people the state finds problematic. Typical hand wringing bullshit.

Nov 29, 20 11:27 am  · 
4  · 
SneakyPete

I reserve my intellectual efforts for people whom I respect and show respect towards others.

Nov 29, 20 2:11 pm  · 
2  ·  1
randomised's comment has been hidden
randomised

Stumbled upon this and thought some of you might be interested in reading this:


Something very strange happened in America’s democracy in the early hours of Wednesday November 4 and the days that followed. It’s reasonable for a lot of Americans to want to find out exactly what.


First, consider some facts. President Trump received more votes than any previous incumbent seeking reelection. He got 11 million more votes than in 2016, the third largest rise in support ever for an incumbent. By way of comparison, President Obama was comfortably reelected in 2012 with 3.5 million fewer votes than he received in 2008.


Trump’s vote increased so much because, according to exit polls, he performed far better with many key demographic groups. Ninety-five percent of Republicans voted for him. He did extraordinarily well with rural male working-class whites.


He earned the highest share of all minority votes for a Republican since 1960. Trump grew his support among black voters by 50 percent over 2016. Nationally, Joe Biden’s black support fell well below 90 percent, the level below which Democratic presidential candidates usually lose.


Trump increased his share of the national Hispanic vote to 35 percent. With 60 percent or less of the national Hispanic vote, it is arithmetically impossible for a Democratic presidential candidate to win Florida, Arizona, Nevada, and New Mexico. Bellwether states swung further in Trump’s direction than in 2016. Florida, Ohio and Iowa each defied America’s media polls with huge wins for Trump. Since 1852, only Richard Nixon has lost the Electoral College after winning this trio, and that 1960 defeat to John F. Kennedy is still the subject of great suspicion.


Midwestern states Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin always swing in the same direction as Ohio and Iowa, their regional peers. Ohio likewise swings with Florida. Current tallies show that, outside of a few cities, the Rust Belt swung in Trump’s direction. Yet, Biden leads in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin because of an apparent avalanche of black votes in Detroit, Philadelphia, and Milwaukee. Biden’s ‘winning’ margin was derived almost entirely from such voters in these cities, as coincidentally his black vote spiked only in exactly the locations necessary to secure victory. He did not receive comparable levels of support among comparable demographic groups in comparable states, which is highly unusual for the presidential victor.


We are told that Biden won more votes nationally than any presidential candidate in history. But he won a record low of 17 percent of counties; he only won 524 counties, as opposed to the 873 counties Obama won in 2008. Yet, Biden somehow outdid Obama in total votes.


Victorious presidential candidates, especially challengers, usually have down-ballot coattails; Biden did not. The Republicans held the Senate and enjoyed a ‘red wave’ in the House, where they gained a large number of seats while winning all 27 toss-up contests. Trump’s party did not lose a single state legislature and actually made gains at the state level.


Another anomaly is found in the comparison between the polls and non-polling metrics. The latter include: party registrations trends; the candidates’ respective primary votes; candidate enthusiasm; social media followings; broadcast and digital media ratings; online searches; the number of (especially small) donors; and the number of individuals betting on each candidate.


Despite poor recent performances, media and academic polls have an impressive 80 percent record predicting the winner during the modern era. But, when the polls err, non-polling metrics do not; the latter have a 100 percent record. Every non-polling metric forecast Trump’s reelection. For Trump to lose this election, the mainstream polls needed to be correct, which they were not. Furthermore, for Trump to lose, not only did one or more of these metrics have to be wrong for the first time ever, but every single one had to be wrong, and at the very same time; not an impossible outcome, but extremely unlikely nonetheless.


Atypical voting patterns married with misses by polling and non-polling metrics should give observers pause for thought. Adding to the mystery is a cascade of information about the bizarre manner in which so many ballots were accumulated and counted.


The following peculiarities also lack compelling explanations:


1. Late on election night, with Trump comfortably ahead, many swing states stopped counting ballots. In most cases, observers were removed from the counting facilities. Counting generally continued without the observers


2. Statistically abnormal vote counts were the new normal when counting resumed. They were unusually large in size (hundreds of thousands) and had an unusually high (90 percent and above) Biden-to-Trump ratio


3. Late arriving ballots were counted. In Pennsylvania, 23,000 absentee ballots have impossible postal return dates and another 86,000 have such extraordinary return dates they raise serious questions


4. The failure to match signatures on mail-in ballots. The destruction of mail-in ballot envelopes, which must contain signatures


5. Historically low absentee ballot rejection rates despite the massive expansion of mail voting. Such is Biden’s narrow margin that, as political analyst Robert Barnes observes, ‘If the states simply imposed the same absentee ballot rejection rate as recent cycles, then Trump wins the election’


6. Missing votes. In Delaware County, Pennsylvania, 50,000 votes held on 47 USB cards are missing


7. Non-resident voters. Matt Braynard’s Voter Integrity Project estimates that 20,312 people who no longer met residency requirements cast ballots in Georgia. Biden’s margin is 12,670 votes


8. Serious ‘chain of custody’ breakdowns. Invalid residential addresses. Record numbers of dead people voting. Ballots in pristine condition without creases, that is, they had not been mailed in envelopes as required by law


9. Statistical anomalies. In Georgia, Biden overtook Trump with 89 percent of the votes counted. For the next 53 batches of votes counted, Biden led Trump by the same exact 50.05 to 49.95 percent margin in every single batch. It is particularly perplexing that all statistical anomalies and tabulation abnormalities were in Biden’s favor. Whether the cause was simple human error or nefarious activity, or a combination, clearly something peculiar happened.


If you think that only weirdos have legitimate concerns about these findings and claims, maybe the weirdness lies in you.”


Patrick Basham is director of the Democracy Institute.

Nov 30, 20 1:09 pm  · 
 ·  3
tduds

"How to Lie with Statistics"

Nov 30, 20 1:21 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

If you google Patrick Basham his primary claim to fame is decades of work as a Pro-Tobacco lobbyist, so maybe not the most - uh - "neutral" figure here.

Nov 30, 20 1:23 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

Or “How to Steal an Election”...who knows?

Nov 30, 20 1:24 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Lots of people know. The election wasn't stolen and there isn't any credible evidence to suggest it was. Stop repeating bullshit.

Nov 30, 20 1:26 pm  · 
1  · 
BabbleBeautiful

I've been seeing bits and pieces of this being posted by those who believe the election was stolen. My favorite part is the # of counties vs # of votes. Yep. OK.

Can someone refresh my memory: In the last election, where democrats also this hell-bent on trying to find the "truth"?

Nov 30, 20 1:34 pm  · 
 · 

Is it that hard to cite your sources when you copy/paste an entire article to the forum? I've linked it above for posterity, and I'll include an article that devotes the latter half to debunking his stupid "peculiarities" ... next time do your own homework. 

Seriously though, you should all be embarrased that it is this easy to refute the crap you're all posting.

Nov 30, 20 1:46 pm  · 
5  · 
square.

scraping the bottom of the barrel, as usual. just waiting for an unhinged rant about american imperialism.. any minute now.

but seriously, this is some boomer shit. it's called a link..

Nov 30, 20 3:25 pm  · 
2  · 
randomised

EA, it’s not hard to cite sources, you’re doing an excellent job ;-)

Nov 30, 20 3:42 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

I’m just posting it to, you know, inform you all of other angles and perspectives. The mainstream angle is just accepted as is, eaten up with a spoon, like Colin Powell’s weapons of mass destruction. You might be forced into an illegitimate presidency just like you were forced into an illegal war (waving at you square.)...And you all can’t seem to be bothered all too much because this time it is your preferred candidate that apparently drew the longer end of the stick. Just knowing America’s dirty past and present with interfering in elections world wide, why is it so hard for people to consider interference at home by the same powers that be, the same powers that are supposed to make sure the elections are run clean...Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

Nov 30, 20 3:55 pm  · 
 · 

@Archinect, thanks for hiding the misleading, factually-challenged posts.

Nov 30, 20 2:51 pm  · 
4  · 
SneakyPete

At every forum I have participated in reposting content that was censured is a bannable offense.

Nov 30, 20 3:17 pm  · 
1  · 

That was quick. Just Rick'ed from the thread though, not a complete nuke from the site.

Nov 30, 20 3:53 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Of the individuals who find it arousing to make unfounded claims based on their own personal fantasy head-cannon, Volunteer is far from the worst.

Nov 30, 20 3:55 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised

Fingers crossed, SneakyPete, fingers crossed(!)

Nov 30, 20 3:58 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

Censorship and calling for the banning of people who don’t buy into their version of events...simply 1984-ish Newspeak(!)

Nov 30, 20 4:08 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised

It’s called head-canon, NewspeakyPete, or Head-QAnon obviously!

Nov 30, 20 4:38 pm  · 
 · 

jla, I'm curious if you can point to three posts here on archinect (any thread) from the past three weeks that you think are factually challenged coming from the "left." Please provide evidence (as I have) that they are misleading. 

I've got my three as follows (all from Politics Central): 

  1. randomised's Nov 30th post copy/pasting Patrick Basham's misleading article. You can find my rebuttal in the replies.
  2. Volunteer's post (Nov 29th?) that was removed citing the Johns Hopkins research on the CDC numbers concerning excess deaths due to COVID. You can find my rebuttal in my comment history.
  3. Volunteer's post (Nov 27th?) that was removed citing the Rasmussen poll concerning the number of Democrats that think the election was fraudulent. You can find my rebuttal in my comment history.
Nov 30, 20 4:40 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

I didn't call for shit, I simply stated an observation based on my experience. Are you suggesting that Volunteer should be banned? That's what it seems like you are saying.

Nov 30, 20 4:43 pm  · 
1  · 

I'd even allow you to use Non's post claiming Thanksgiving was in October as misleading based on context, but it's neither factually-challenged, nor from the left ... so unfortunately, it won't likely work.

Nov 30, 20 4:59 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised

You know exactly what you did SP by hinting at other forums and their policies, you’d never post that if it was e.g. square. or b3ta reposting previously censored content and you know it all too well, don’t kid yourself...

Nov 30, 20 5:07 pm  · 
 ·  1
Non Sequitur

Hey now, what did I do? My thanksgiving post was well positioned as attempt to inject some humour. It's not like I tripled-down like a certain other "stellar" norther-european student did recently.

Nov 30, 20 5:09 pm  · 
3  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Dutch People Are Dicks. Here’s Why Americans Should Try It.

Not saying it's true, but some people are saying it is.

Nov 30, 20 5:10 pm  · 
2  · 
SneakyPete

I didn't call for anyone to be banned, but you did.

Nov 30, 20 5:16 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

Have you read the article b3ta? It’s a tribute!

Nov 30, 20 5:26 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised

“I didn't call for anyone to be banned, but you did.”

I took your (way too obvious) hint and ran with it...just to show the consequences of your post. Can’t even admit you wanted Volunteer banned, what a cowardly dick move...

Nov 30, 20 5:32 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

I stated an experience. You refuse to own what you said after. Prick.

Nov 30, 20 5:37 pm  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

random, I did read it, and two things came to mind; you and I are neither of the people described, i'll tell you to your face you're a cunt - with all the british I can muster, because if there's one thing I know, brits know how to call em' - and you're not a djick, you're what is referred to as a ^

Nov 30, 20 5:47 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

You stated that experience for one reason and one reason only...whatever you try to tell yourself, you know exactly why you brought it up there...username checks out!

Dec 1, 20 12:52 am  · 
 · 
randomised

B3ta, that’s cultural appropriation!

Dec 1, 20 12:54 am  · 
 · 

It's still here. It's also more than 3 weeks old, but I'll allow it. 

In fact, I recall you posting some stupid Shapiro video that was misleading because he was taking anonymous hearsay on reddit (or something) as fact rather than the multiple first-hand accounts, attributable to actual people and journalists, that contradicted him. I rebutted you there and you can find it in my comment history. That's 4 for me. Try again. 

Remember the task you have is to point to misleading or non-factual claims from the left ... not give me more to add to my list.

Dec 1, 20 12:41 pm  · 
1  · 

Again, I urge you to point to the instances you're alluding to. If b3ta said police were hunting down black people, you should be able to find it and cite it. And so on for the rest of your complaints. You're spending time creating straw men rather than pointing to anything concrete. If you point to something concrete, I'll happily flag the post for you and comment that it is misleading and should be hidden. Or you know, you could do it. 

This whole concept that conservatives have (and I'm lumping you in there) that flagging content needs to be equal to both sides is ridiculous because they aren't realizing that both sides are not equally spreading misinformation. 100 Trump tweets got flagged, 0 Biden tweets got flagged means ... *checks notes* ... Trump posts misleading information and Biden doesn't, not that big tech is part of a deep state conspiracy against conservatism.

Dec 1, 20 1:42 pm  · 
 · 

The shitty men list was taken down, so not an example of unbiased censorship and no points for you.

Also, I'm not asking you to comb through past threads, you're doing that on your own. I asked you to point to three within the past three weeks. Which you can't even come close to.

Dec 1, 20 1:44 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Conversely, you're allowed to say nothing. Readers are capable of critical thinking. Don't need a 50 post tirade on every bit of minutia. 

I've been posting much less since October (been online less in general), mostly a side-effect of having a full plate again, but also has been good for my mental state. I'd recommend you try it.

Dec 1, 20 1:45 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

Nothing can be "100%" debunked or confirmed, sometimes even when experienced directly. Such is the malleability of perception and memory. Such also is the nature of conspiracy theories: any information that challenges the theory becomes, to the believer, part of the conspiracy. Understanding that is a step towards understanding that filtering information is not always "censorship" but often an important part of maintaining a coherent consensus of reality. 

Dec 1, 20 2:28 pm  · 
2  · 

"I just wish 'fact' enforcement applied to the left too" --jla (twice yesterday)

"I don't want ANYONE censored." --jla (today)

Dec 1, 20 2:29 pm  · 
 · 

"Let the facts either stand up to scrutiny or fall to scrutiny." 

They are. So far it's 4-0 in favor of my scrutiny. Thanks for playing.

Dec 1, 20 2:34 pm  · 
 · 

"I don't want any fact checks" --jla

"Let the facts either stand up to scrutiny or fall to scrutiny." --jla (in the same breath)

Like, what do you think a fact check is?

Dec 1, 20 2:35 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

It sure isn't. I can't wait to watch you have it again in a few days.

Dec 1, 20 2:41 pm  · 
 · 

tduds, I don't want to give that a thumbs up as it might be misconstrued as encouragement, but I'm with you 100%

Dec 1, 20 2:46 pm  · 
 · 

lol, the posts in question did not stand up to scrutiny. They were eviscerated, and then hidden (still available to anyone who registers with the website). They were only removed as a byproduct of the user getting upset about it and reposting it again so as to avoid it being associated with the previous scrutiny. 

At this point, what would you rather have? Would you rather have a petulant child to be able to continuously repost the same thing over and over again, spamming us all with their misleading and error-filled posts without suffering any consequences? At what point does his freedom to post garbage conflict with my freedom to participate on a website free of garbage? Who's individual freedom should win out? Seems like the website owner gets to make that call, no?

tduds, looks like you didn't have to wait a few days to see it all over again.

Dec 1, 20 7:51 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

Wow I didn't even have to wait a few days.

Dec 1, 20 8:29 pm  · 
2  · 

"Removing posts is unnecessary" --jla's opinion 

"The website owner can make the call." --also jla

Thank you for sharing your opinion. I think the website owners are making their own calls independent of your opinion. 

Dec 1, 20 8:51 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Ideas are not identities.

Dec 2, 20 12:17 am  · 
 · 

Refusing to bake a cake because of a customer's sexual orientation is discrimination against a protected class. AFIK education and/or ability to think critically is not a protected class under anti-discrimination law. If you want to lobby congress to make being stupid a protected class, by all means, proceed. Then we can have the discussion on equal footing where the question would be, do companies have the right to discriminate against stupid people?

Dec 2, 20 1:00 pm  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]


Man! Who knew the Deep State could disappear a whole county!

Nov 30, 20 7:12 pm  · 
2  · 
randomised

Perhaps it’s just a typo.

Dec 1, 20 2:14 am  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

^ get a load of this guy.

Dec 1, 20 4:29 am  · 
1  · 
randomised

(o^▽^o)

Dec 1, 20 6:57 am  · 
 · 
randomised

So lobbyists and board members of weapons manufacturers in the running for Secretary of Offence...where will they invade next?

Dec 1, 20 8:13 am  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

(*^3^)/~☆

Netherlands, they let countries invade, and blow up their passenger planes! We should be able to do it by setting fires to their forests, and destroy their supply of wooden Doc Mäartenz.

Dec 1, 20 8:21 am  · 
 · 
randomised

Whatever floats your woke boat, so apparently you think it's a good idea to have lobbyists from arms producers run a so-called department of defense, your veneer of a self-proclaimed human rights activist is even thinner than I imagined...how the "mighty" has fallen...

Dec 1, 20 9:29 am  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

(・∀・)

Naw. I just don't give af what some dopey doutch person thinks. Never have, never will. It's pot calling kettle.

Dec 1, 20 9:33 am  · 
 · 
randomised

You give enough fucks to respond but not enough to respond to the topic, your silence on that says it all...the hypocritical American imperialist strikes again! My condolences upfront to all the global victims of your politics, vote democrat and you get lobbyists for the weapons industry running the show...

Dec 1, 20 9:50 am  · 
1  · 
square.

what's the definition of insanity again?

Dec 1, 20 9:55 am  · 
1  · 
randomised

"what's the definition of insanity again?"

voting democrat while pretending you care about human rights

Dec 1, 20 9:57 am  · 
 ·  2
b3tadine[sutures]

    | ̄ ̄|
_☆☆☆_
( ´_⊃`)

Dec 1, 20 10:01 am  · 
4  · 
square.

maybe.. or having a middle-school level understanding of morality where one sees the world in dumb binaries, conflating their vote with the entirety of their personal ethics, especially in a two-party system.

Dec 1, 20 10:02 am  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

The true horror of American Imperialism is McDonald's and KFC! Just wait until we send them Chik Fil A, and Taco Bell. Is Friends on in Holland?

Dec 1, 20 10:20 am  · 
1  · 
randomised

You have a two-party system because of how people are voting...which is in favor of imperialist mass murdering war criminals. You get the imperialist mass murderers you vote for...I really don't get why people take that shit as a given, there are other options you know. You don't have to support war mongering mass murdering imperialists, yet you choose to keep on supporting them and attack anyone who dares to question those motives ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (I really don't see how personal ethics of not committing genocide or murder are suddenly put aside when it is election time, if there's ever a time to let your personal ethics conflate...)

Dec 1, 20 10:23 am  · 
 ·  4
b3tadine[sutures]

Wrong.

Dec 1, 20 10:27 am  · 
1  · 
square.

it's clear that politics is your religion- it defines your world view, your moral and ethical compass. (what you're doing here, saying the same thing over and over, is no different than the jesus freaks waving their signs and shouting that the end is nigh as the crowds pass by.)

this all is not the case for me, however, and your broad generalizations and dualistic thinking don't align with the way i see the world. end.

Dec 1, 20 10:31 am  · 
1  · 
randomised

I might sound like a broken record, but it's simply my jam...I care about politics and the world to not let it all get ruined by American imperialism, illegitimate wars and mass murder. Can't even post worries about lobbyists of the weapons industry running the department of defense, but when the US Postal Service gets a new Post Master with interests in UPS it's a huge scandal! Hypocrisy all over...and that is only about delivering mail not weapons of mass destruction. Your priorities are way off! Keep voting the way you do, the body bag industry will thank you...

Dec 1, 20 10:44 am  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Kill Em' All, let KFC sort it out!

Dec 1, 20 11:15 am  · 
2  · 
SneakyPete

Randomised, we might find you less distasteful if you didn't have a nasty, sustained, and seemingly inexhaustible habit of reading articles about America the country and then coming here to tar and feather us individually because we may have had the unmitigated gall to vote for someone on the ballot as opposed to ... something you've never said. You generally build a straw man that's ignorant of the realities of living in America. Something you don't do. And every time you betray your petty personal vendetta, seemingly just to get your moral superiority rocks off. Never giving a single shit about the fact that there are people behind these accounts. 


You fucking prick. 

Dec 1, 20 11:40 am  · 
2  · 
randomised

Maybe just don't vote for imperialist assholes that illegally invade other countries, commit mass murder and celebrate genocide, so I wouldn't have to remind you all the goddamn time...I do give a shit about people though, if you'd give as much about people as I do, you wouldn't be voting the way you do, I promise you...

Dec 1, 20 12:02 pm  · 
 ·  2
SneakyPete

We vote for who's on the ticket. You know this. You ignore this. You enjoy being willfully ignorant because otherwise you'd have to fall off that fucking high hobby horse you have built out of bullshit.

You fucking prick.

Dec 1, 20 12:03 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

"You have a two-party system because of how people are voting..." 

Nope. We have a two-party system because our system of voting essentially necessitates it. I've explained this at length elsewhere in this thread.

I stopped reading there. No point in seeing what wrong conclusions come from wrong information.

Dec 1, 20 12:10 pm  · 
3  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

It's like they think we have a parliamentary system. Which I'm all on board for, well, until we get the Proletariat motivated.

Dec 1, 20 12:45 pm  · 
3  · 
randomised

There are more than two parties and there are independent candidates as well, but apparently world peace is not that big of a deal for most here, what a shame!

Dec 1, 20 1:02 pm  · 
 ·  3
tduds

There are multiple caucuses within the two dominant parties that effectively replicate the 'coalition' system common in Parliamentary / European models of legislatures. The minor parties are good at occasionally pushing policy ideas into the mainstream, but even they know they're not playing to win elections. "World Peace" is not a thing dependent on political parties, one, two or otherwise.

Dec 1, 20 1:18 pm  · 
3  · 
randomised

If you wouldn’t have your parties run by the weapons industry you wouldn’t be invading other countries, making world peace so much more likely...

Dec 1, 20 1:21 pm  · 
 ·  3
tduds

Is the military industrial complex a problem? You betcha. 

Does the influence of money in politics create a status quo in which elected politicians - even the good ones - are ultimately beholden to lobbyists & corporate donors, many of whom are tied to the military industrial complex? Indeed it does! 

Is the way to fix this voting for a third party in an electoral system that all-but-guarantees two dominant parties? Nope. 

I'm trying to explain to you that your solution to the problem is wrong and you're accusing me of saying the problem doesn't exist. We're not having the same conversation, so unless that changes we're unlikely to reach any sort of understanding.

Dec 1, 20 1:26 pm  · 
6  · 

^ I need more thumbs

Dec 1, 20 1:28 pm  · 
6  · 
BabbleBeautiful

One should note that the military industrial complex is a global problem not necessarily inflicted solely by the US. It takes two to tango, but in reality it's an orgy.

Dec 1, 20 2:34 pm  · 
3  · 
tduds

Voting is the final and most insignificant step in a process of politics that takes years, sometimes decades, to come into prominence enough that it even appears on a ballot. If your understanding of "politics" is "voting", you're effectively apolitical.

Dec 1, 20 2:40 pm  · 
1  · 
square.

seriously, tduds nailed it.. it's why i said rando's view on this hasn't passed a middle-school understanding of morality and ethics, as with his understanding of the united states, and why he continually comes off as a petulant teenager who just read about existentialism for the first time:


it's quite sad to assume that you are a good and moral person because you vote a certain way, and even more laughable that voting will bring about something called "world peace" - the way in which you concretely act in the world has far more significance than checking a box, and thinking so is profoundly naive.

Dec 1, 20 2:45 pm  · 
2  · 
randomised

If people keep voting for the two dominant parties that are run by lobbyists and the military industrial complex, guess what...they remain the dominant parties. Be the change!

Dec 1, 20 2:58 pm  · 
 ·  6
SneakyPete

Red card on the play, intentional missing of the point.

Dec 1, 20 3:03 pm  · 
1  · 

Due respect rando (I'm only saying that to be polite, which is negated by this parenthetical, but whatever), those of us participating in the political system you're criticizing, which is much more than just voting for the Rs, the Ds, or other, have done more to "be the change" than you ever will ... so respectfully (there's that politeness again), GTFO.

Dec 1, 20 3:09 pm  · 
 ·  1
square.

not fair- i'm sure rando is clogging his way to world peace as we speak.

Dec 1, 20 3:11 pm  · 
 · 

I wasn't talking about his world peace campaign. He may have us beat there. I was talking about his "be the change [in the US political, two-dominant-party system]" comment.

Dec 1, 20 3:14 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised

square. You concretely act in this world partly by who you vote into office and the policies that those people execute...what difference does it make on a global scale if you are nice to your neighbour or volunteer in a soup kitchen to serve soup to homeless veterans when at the very same time you mandate politicians to bomb the hell out of poor innocent civilians halfway across the globe...can’t hide behind a faulty political system when it is a matter of life and death but apparently non-American lives don’t matter as much :-(

Dec 1, 20 3:28 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

As I said - I think twice now in this very exchange - "Being the change" and "Voting" are nearly independent actions.

Dec 1, 20 3:31 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Plugging a different party into the same system will produce, at the absolute best, a new set of two corrupt parties.

Dec 1, 20 3:32 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

EA, really no need for the niceties, don’t bother if you end with GTFO

Dec 1, 20 3:37 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

“ it's quite sad to assume that you are a good and moral person because you vote a certain way”

your assumption is way off, as usual square I should add...I don’t assume I am a good and moral person because of the way I vote, I vote in a certain way because of my personal ethics and sense of morality. So it is actually the other way around...

Dec 1, 20 3:42 pm  · 
 · 
square.

seems like your theory is really working out:

Dutch military to send up to 150 new soldiers to Kurdistan Region
https://www.kurdistan24.net/en...

Dec 1, 20 3:45 pm  · 
1  · 

rando, I know. I should have internalized the article b3ta posted earlier about being an asshole. Apparently my parents' instilled some good manners in me despite my best efforts.

Dec 1, 20 3:53 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

Spoiler alert: randomised is a prick

Dec 1, 20 3:55 pm  · 
 · 

Dude, sneaky ... calling him names only lowers others' opinions of you. It's also just not cool, and never has been. You can be better than this.

Dec 1, 20 4:02 pm  · 
1  · 
BabbleBeautiful

square, rando is going to blame the US for that, but rightfully so. 

Dec 1, 20 4:03 pm  · 
1  · 
square.

yes, but weakens the "argument" to non-existent when your own country, who's leaders you vote for, and even if you don't, who's taxes and world relations benefit you, is teaming up with the very world police you spend the majority of your time complaining about.

Dec 1, 20 4:14 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

I've spent a decade talking with rando and jla and giving them the benefit of the doubt. They abused my good faith every step of the way. You can think of me as you like, but I'm fucking exhausted. I'm not a saint, and I am tempering my knee-jerk reactions with a one word descriptor that I think is appropriate. I would put rando and jla on ignore, however then I cannot participate when their fecal drippings are all over the threads, since you cannot reply to an ignored member.

Dec 1, 20 4:24 pm  · 
4  · 

SP, I won't discount anything you said, and I'm right there with you on the exhaustion and lack of sainthood. I still think you can do better. Same can be said for b3ta and others that engage in the near constant ad hominem attacks against him (note I don't hold out the same hope for him elevating the level of discourse if that's any consolation prize). 

I know this is quixotic and probably comes across as sanctimonious. I'm just exhausted of seeing the majority of the comments being nothing more than name calling. I would normally just let it be, but in the past week you've called him a "prick" 14 times. 

We get it. 

So does he. 

No one needs convincing. 

Say it once or twice a week if you have to get it off your chest and move on. This and my poking the bear comment in TC has been me getting it off my chest, and now I'll move on.

Dec 1, 20 6:40 pm  · 
2  · 
SneakyPete

I'm definitely stuck in a rut. I'll see what I can do.

Dec 1, 20 7:21 pm  · 
2  · 
randomised

square. from the article: "They will be responsible for the security of Erbil airport, together with US forces." 

I'm sure they got an offer they couldn't refuse, severed horse head and all, as is always the case with America bullying its "allies" to fight in their conflicts. But to get back to my so-called theory, I didn't vote for anyone who OK'd this, try again...

Dec 2, 20 4:09 am  · 
 ·  1
square.

still makes you complicit, nullifying most, if not all, of your arguments.

Dec 2, 20 9:17 am  · 
 · 
randomised

No, it doesn't! The result might be the same but that doesn't make me complicit at all. But you personally do actively and willingly vote for the people that wage (illegal) war, that want to make lobbyists for weapons manufacturers as Secretary of Offence.

Dec 2, 20 9:33 am  · 
 · 
square.

a war your country participates in, the result being the death of innocent civilians at the hand of your fighter jets. complicit.

Dec 2, 20 9:34 am  · 
 · 
randomised

A war my country was forced to participate in by your country, in fighter jets that we are forced to buy from your country dropping American bombs, guided by American radar control. Those deaths are the direct result of the decisions of your country, made in the USA, not mine. Your country also threatened to invade my country if we ever brought American war criminals before the ICC and Obama himself invoked the doctrine of elite immunity, not being able to be held accountable for atrocities committed. I am in no way complicit in any of this, on the contrary!

Dec 2, 20 9:52 am  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

For anyone who can't figure it out. And if your response is that we just haven't tried hard enough, fuck off. 

Dec 1, 20 1:46 pm  · 
3  · 
BabbleBeautiful

I love this!

Dec 1, 20 2:37 pm  · 
1  · 
BabbleBeautiful

What about ranked-choice voting? yes? no? Maybe too late for us to apply at the federal level?

Dec 1, 20 2:46 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised

You haven’t tried hard enough...

Dec 1, 20 3:32 pm  · 
 ·  2
SneakyPete

Please share how you, personally, have had an effect on your country's voting process so we can emulate your perfection.

Dec 1, 20 3:54 pm  · 
3  · 
SneakyPete

Never mind. I forgot for a second. You're a prick.

Dec 1, 20 3:54 pm  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

No just that.

This too. (Oh man, that's going to cost me.)

Dec 1, 20 5:09 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

If I were rando I'd simply vote for ranked choice voting.

Dec 1, 20 5:19 pm  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Two thumbs up for ranked choice!

Dec 1, 20 5:56 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

"Please share how you, personally, have had an effect on your country's voting process so we can emulate your perfection."

No need to have an effect on the country's voting process as NL is a properly functioning democracy, so all I need to do is not vote for war mongering imperialists, that's my personal effect. It really is not that hard, first of all I don't vote for (illegal) war mongering imperialists, and you can do it too! If only enough people would abandon the parties that are responsible for fighting all those illegal wars all over the world and the killing of innocent civilians, but people unfortunately choose otherwise, power hungry.

Even a president that avoids being sent overseas to fight an illegal war against people, innocent civilians living in the middle of nowhere who never even had heard of the USA, let alone were a threat to the sovereignty of the States is being ridiculed as a coward. But I'm sure most here would've protested against that very war themselves, and try to avoid being sent to die for a cause not their own. If only you had more cowards running your country instead of people with all those inflated hero complexes, trying to "rescue" the world...

Dec 2, 20 3:14 am  · 
 ·  1
b3tadine[sutures]

I know, if only FDR minded his own business like Lindbergh asked, we'd be a better off...

Dec 2, 20 5:26 am  · 
1  · 
randomised

The States only got interested in the European front when the Soviets started kicking the Nazis ass a bit too successful. They didn't want to liberate us from the Nazis or even rescue the Jews, they wanted to occupy us before team Stalin would, and so they did, until this day we have American troops and weapons of mass destruction on our lands:

(https://www.basenation.us/maps...)


Dec 2, 20 6:46 am  · 
 · 
square.
neoimperialism from the og imperialists
Dec 2, 20 9:36 am  · 
1  · 
randomised

He's being forced by your lot, forced to risk his life for yet another illegal American war, the only thing Dutch is the little flag on his American uniform, carrying his American weapon, shooting American bullets in yet another American war. You could also post a picture of a bank robber(USA) forcing his hostage(NL) at gunpoint to shoot someone and blame the hostage instead of the bank robber(USA)...

Dec 2, 20 10:39 am  · 
 ·  1
tduds

lolwut.

Dec 2, 20 12:15 pm  · 
3  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

that's right tduds, Dutch soldiers, people, and their government, are forced to kill people, or else we send KFC, and force them to take insignificant military bases next to windmills.

Dec 2, 20 5:14 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

"Dutch soldiers, people, and their government, are forced to kill people [by the Americans]" ...sad but true.

Dec 2, 20 5:24 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

The word "forced" is doing a lot of work here.

Dec 2, 20 5:30 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised

It is doing as much work as geese do to make foie gras.

Dec 2, 20 5:58 pm  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Well, it sounds like the Dutch are shit at managing their government. Get new people, oh, wait, you don't like anyone that isn't a slighter shade of gouda.

Dec 2, 20 6:08 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

“ Get new people, oh, wait, you don't like anyone that isn't a slighter shade of gouda.”

Just out of curiosity, what are you implying here...

Dec 2, 20 8:31 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

This thread is 5 pages long with over 3,900 posts. We are talking about the same shit we did on page 1. 



Dec 1, 20 5:49 pm  · 
2  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

I'm here for the gouda.

Dec 1, 20 5:57 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

That's politics, baby.

Dec 1, 20 6:05 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

Gouda is good. I think the first comment on page 1 is the best tho.

Dec 1, 20 6:14 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

I just peeked at page one and every reply I made on page one could be copied & pasted as a reply on page five. I just saved myself a ton of time in the next few weeks, is what I'm saying.

Dec 1, 20 6:34 pm  · 
 · 

... and those numbers are absent the people who have been nuked from the thread. But in the meantime Trump won't be getting his second term

Dec 1, 20 6:41 pm  · 
2  · 
Non Sequitur

I’m pretty sure I have more nuked comments than i have visible ones in this thread.

Dec 1, 20 7:37 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised
randomised HISTORY · CONTACT
Would be nice to revisit this thread after the elections in 2020, until then you kids have fun...

JUN 28, 19 4:19 AM · · 1 · REPLY


That didn’t really go as planned.
Dec 2, 20 2:17 am  · 
3  · 
SneakyPete

EA, I can no longer read anything in that thread, in case you said anything you want me to read. I assume you didn't.

Dec 1, 20 7:41 pm  · 
1  · 

No, we good. I just gave your last comment about seeing what you can do a thumbs up.

Dec 1, 20 7:53 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

I have a really bad scab-picking habit (figuratively). Helps to have people that care pointing it out. Thanks.

Dec 1, 20 8:10 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Alright I'm going to post some heady shit as I come across it in a (probably futile) attempt to elevate this thread above the American Left v. American Right mudslinging that every exchange seems to inevitably descend into. Here goes nothin'

"In the modern world, more is actually less. Indeed, the costs of economic growth have begun to outpace their benefits, visible in the plunder of the environment and escalating inequality. We no longer need more, but rather better and more fairly distributed, in order to provide prosperity for all. Collectively, we produce and grow enough for every child, woman and man to have a good and dignified life wherever they live. As a world community, we know more and create more than we know how to process. It’s a huge accomplishment. We should celebrate and enjoy it together, rather than remain on the deplorable path of pitting one against the other in the race for ever more, one dying of too much, the other of too little.

And yet, our dominant economic systems continue to follow colonial extraction and brutal exclusion, in the process creating" two organically related, existential problems: the perpetuation (and in some cases intensification) of poverty, and the violation of the biophysical limits of our planet."

https://aeon.co/essays/the-cha...

Dec 2, 20 12:26 am  · 
3  · 
square.

totally, emphatically disagree with this- critique is a vital part of the imagining and addressing of problems (though i agree that it must be paired with action). one could argue our entire discipline is founded on the notion of critique as a crucial part of making things better.

in other words, how can you operate as a designer without understanding the value of critique? bizarre.

Dec 2, 20 9:53 am  · 
2  · 
tduds

It's a thought-piece not a political policy document.

Dec 2, 20 12:14 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

The books he cites contain the detail you're looking for.

Dec 2, 20 12:22 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

I think, also, more importantly than a detailed consideration of solutions, it highlights the frequently ignored blind-spots and short-sightedness of our current GDP-based growth-based capitalism. The author, rightly imo, condemns the lack of imagination built into the dominant systems we've created, with the intent of starting the conversation that might lead to better solutions. It, by its own headline, is a "challenge." It's by no means comprehensive, but an excellent opening salvo. To criticize the opening statement for lacking a conclusion is to misinterpret the place of the statement in the conversation.

Dec 2, 20 12:27 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

It’s one thing for example to say “fossil fuels are causing global warming”. Perfectly true critique. It’s another to say “fossil fuels are causing global warming therefore we need to stop using fossil fuels”. 

I don't know how you can say the first part and not arrive at the second. What other possible conclusion could one draw from "This thing is killing life on the planet" than "We should stop using it"?

Dec 2, 20 12:29 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

tduds, where do you go to find the books and essays you link to? I've screwed up the algorithm so it only shows me drum n bass music and articles about the election.

Dec 2, 20 12:39 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

Also it's a physical truth that one needs to slow down before stopping, but don't let that get in the way of ideological purity...jla.

Dec 2, 20 12:40 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

Combination of sites I specifically check in on (I subscribe to NYT, Wash Post, New Yorker & Harpers. When I have some free time I'll open up Atlantic, Aeon, Mother Jones, New Republic...). For less highbrow stuff I like the AVClub universe (Jezebel, The Root, The Takeout, RIP Deadspin) Also twitter, sometimes. Also reddit's "r/FoodforThought" and "r/Longreads" are decent. I read perhaps a little too much online, but I have a pretty good memory which helps me cite my sources. A lot of what I post on Archinect is something I read weeks or months ago that a comment reminded me of.

Dec 2, 20 12:45 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

That's a silly analogy. Not only are we not in the desert, we aren't thirsty, and we have plenty of alternatives. Further, the man in the desert with nothing but soda would likely use the nutrients from the soda to get out of the desert, where I'd bet money he's going to look for a cold glass of water. 

To reverse the analogy: what would you say to a man who refuses to leave the desert because he has a bottle of soda he believes can sustain him?

Dec 2, 20 12:49 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

You're doing that thing again where you (incorrectly) tell me what I'm saying in order to argue against something different. If you think the problems outlined in the article are not problems, say so. Otherwise, you're nitpicking a point no one is making & once again gumming up the conversation.

Dec 2, 20 12:51 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Sure, simply switching gasoline powered cars to electric powered cars with no change in miles driven is a ridiculous and shortsighted climate strategy. As the piece I posted suggests, we need to radically re-think systems themselves. It's not enough to change elements or players, a true solution is going to require changing goals. Is that going to be painful? Probably. Is it going to be less painful than maintaining the status quo? Probably not.

Dec 2, 20 1:00 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

"...ignored the capitalist context." 

To the contrary, this essay directly challenges the capitalist context. It doesn't even go as far as to provide a utopian vision, it simply makes the case that we need to be searching outside of the current context to find those solutions, and we currently (for the most part) aren't.

 "Capitalism is interconnected to many of these freedoms" 

I'd say not inherently, but only because we've set up a structure that makes it so. Again I'd point to the current running through the essay of a failure of imagination among the systems that so far structure our society. It's the water we swim in, but that doesn't mean other bodies of water are unswimmable. The first obstacle to overcome is the inability to see that we are in water. 

Dec 2, 20 1:24 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

The reductionist idea of permanently fixing a word and then using at as a binary is really frustrating. It means that discourse is all but impossible, since nuance cannot affect a monolith. Capitalism is just a neat, tidy, and short way of saying a bunch of long winded stuff about a system, it's not a fixed thing unto itself. It's just a word, and the meaning can shift.

Dec 2, 20 1:43 pm  · 
3  · 

Quickly jumping in to support the effort tduds is making to have a better discussion in this thread. I'm following, but don't have much time to devote to it at the moment. 

I will say I'm noticing some parallels with the architecture and capitalism discussion so I'll just throw these out there ... the argument for addressing climate change is not the opposite of fossil fuels is no fossil fuels

The argument also is not the opposite of fossil fuels is alternatives to fossil fuels. That would be too reductionist and binary. 

The argument might better be thought of as the opposite to energy dependence and burning of fossil fuels to provide that energy is reducing energy use and using alternative sources to provide that energy.

Dec 2, 20 1:53 pm  · 
1  · 

I also think that can play into the larger discussion of capitalism if the dependence on energy as a way to drive GDP and growth is addressed through direct challenges to that economic system.

Dec 2, 20 1:56 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

There's a strange and satisfying irony in that I'm more engaged and interested with jla on ignore than I was before.

Dec 2, 20 2:18 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

I recently re-read a great book: Donella Meadow's "Thinking in Systems" (https://www.chelseagreen.com/product/thinking-in-systems/) that you'd probably enjoy. I think it's useful here in understanding that "capitalism" itself might not be the root problem, but rather the goal we've defined for the system to pursue - which is infinite growth measured by GDP. 

The essay I linked above touches on this as well: "Most definitions of mainstream economics are based on some version of Lionel Robbin’s 1932 definition as the ‘efficient allocation of scarce resources’. The answer to scarcity coupled with people’s presumed desire for more is, of course: keep producing stuff. Not surprisingly, the guiding star for success, of both policymakers and economists around the world, is a crude, if convenient metric – GDP – that does nothing but indiscriminately count final output (more stuff), independent of whether it’s good or bad, whether it creates wellbeing or harm, and notwithstanding that its ongoing growth is unsustainable." 

I don't know if I'd agree that capitalism is "a necessary feature of a free society", as you say, but I get what you're getting at. I think dismantling capitalism is *a* (not *the*) solution, but I also think re-defining the goal of capitalism is *a* solution. Most importantly, and as I think the essay attempts to illustrate, the dominant proposed "solutions" so far fail to do either of these things, and so they are unlikely to solve the problems created by the goal.

Changing the inputs without changing the goal will simply result in the new inputs being used to achieve the same goal. If the goal is the problem, the problem will persist.

Dec 2, 20 5:56 pm  · 
 · 
BabbleBeautiful

Capitalism is a recent invention and some pro-capitalists believe it will allow us to create an overabundance of wealth to the point where everyone will benefit from it. I figure you, x-jla, fall in to this category of optimists as your theme seems to be that it is or can be the saviour to humanity.

I don't have the same optimism and argue that if the human psyche were to rid of itself of the "materialistic religion" (I would add status and power), as you put it, we would also be rid of capitalism. What comes in it's place?

I don't know. Star Trek TNG?

Dec 2, 20 6:44 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

I'd like to have a job where I can work for the benefit of my mind and my mental health instead of for a representational currency so I can buy shit.

Dec 2, 20 8:30 pm  · 
2  · 
SneakyPete

I can't read that.

Dec 2, 20 8:54 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

I'd contend we currently have monopolies on innovation. Dominant corporations are buying competitors and absorbing emerging technologies, either to increase their dominance or to "catch and kill" anything that might threaten their status. These monopolies arise from a lack of oversight, from regulation already removed. The fix isn't to further de-regulate but to actually enforce anti-trust laws in order to allow an actual competitive marketplace. Capital, like water, will flow into a single pool without a redistributive feedback loop.

Dec 2, 20 9:27 pm  · 
3  · 
tduds

"some pro-capitalists believe it will allow us to create an overabundance of wealth to the point where everyone will benefit from it." 

Similarly, I think this abundance already exists, but it's too unequally distributed. The future is here for those who can afford it. If people could learn to be happy with "enough", everyone could at least subsist. I'm not sure the best mechanism, but a combination of "force" (aka progressive taxation) and "culture" (a shift in the idea of success that moves away from infinite accumulation as a goal) would probably do more good than bad.

Dec 2, 20 9:30 pm  · 
2  · 
square.

Because your reaction is emotionally drive.

without an alternative to the thing causing the problems it’s a useless discussion.

It’s presenting an alternative outcome/vision without going into the mechanics of how to get there.

lOvE aNd InNoVaTiOn WiLl PrEvAiL aNd SaVe Us

Dec 3, 20 9:29 am  · 
 · 
square.

degradation (e.g. environmental destruction), violence (e.g. "innovation" of nuclear weapons, something that could objectively wipe out the entire human race) and exploitation (e.g. chinese workers committing suicide at alarming rates in order to meet the insane quotas for cheap iphones) have also been steadily evidenced in conjunction with innovation. it's a double edged sword. this is not to say that innovation is completely bad, of course it has had loads of benefits, but to claim that "love and innovation," through capitalism, only produce beneficial outcomes is naive. history runs in waves, perhaps this version of capitalism, or the system in general, has run its course.

one thing that can't be argued that is if we continue on the path of pure industrial capitalism, the future for us is not long.

Dec 3, 20 10:01 am  · 
1  · 
square.

this is not to say that innovation is completely bad, of course it has had loads of benefits

typically i would never feel the need to say something so basic as this, but considering who we're speaking with, it's important to remind everyone that most in this discussion don't see the world in strict binaries of "good vs bad" or "love vs hate" etc

Dec 3, 20 10:08 am  · 
1  · 
square.

I mean, holy shit there are truck drivers listening to 3 hour pod casts about quantum mechanics, history, etc.

surprising coming from a supposed libertarian humanist. what good are podcasts if you're required, thanks to ruthlessly efficient economic system, to sit on your ass for hours on end, alienated from other humans (which, in person, are a better medium for the exchange of knowledge)?

you're putting the cart before the horse- i think it's a little perverse to celebrate an "enlightenment" of knowledge that is predicated on a physical and spiritual degradation of the individual. (i know you'll claim it was just their "choice," to which much of modern life and its occupations could be compared, but i'm moving on.)

Dec 3, 20 12:01 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

Liberated knowledge distributed via a fully owned system which can be turned off the moment someone doesn't pay a corporation for hosting, licensing, etc. doesn't sound so liberated to me.

Dec 3, 20 12:39 pm  · 
2  · 
square.

typical, twisting my words into something i'm not saying at all. i said nothing about not working or unemployment, but responded to the specific job you mentioned, and how that specific job is literally physically dehumanizing (talk to any trucker and they'll tell you how unhealthy their job is).

will you ever change?

Dec 3, 20 1:17 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

I clicked a button and he started making complete sense.


Dec 3, 20 1:21 pm  · 
3  · 
square.

following your lead.

Dec 3, 20 1:22 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

"dehumanizing to earn a living and support a family" 

That's frequently the exchange, yes.

Dec 3, 20 2:02 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

I'm more optimistic about peoples' ability to define their own purpose, given the freedom of stability and sustenance to do so. Truck driving is, for many, not a "purpose." Coal mining is not a "purpose." (I'm sure exceptions exist but lets recognize they're exceptions.) Though many obviously have pride in their work, that work is a means of survival. People protest losing coal mining /truck driving jobs not because they love coal mining and truck driving, but because they love eating food and having a roof over their heads, and there are no alternatives built into our system for them to have the latter without the former.

Dec 3, 20 2:38 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

Labor *can be* more than a paycheck, but for many it is not.

Dec 3, 20 2:53 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

"The act of working/sacrificing/providing, is rewarding and fulfilling" 

Again it *can be* but isn't inherently or universally. Moreso, the act of working on / for / towards something you believe in, are passionate about, and find fulfilling is certainly more rewarding than staffing the Drive Thru at McDonalds or the checkout at WalMart. To flip your "innovation" point on its head: How much innovation is stifled because people's time and effort is sapped by bullshit jobs? How many more ideas could flourish if peoples' basic needs were met, freeing them to work on their passions? I think you're over-estimating the satisfaction of non-career work and under-estimating the self-motivation of the average person.

Dec 3, 20 2:57 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

You mentioned elsewhere that you favor UBI. My reasoning above is what drives my support for UBI. Not sure where the disconnect is with your reasoning here.

Dec 3, 20 2:58 pm  · 
 · 

Anecdotally relevant to the discussion is a recent podcast episode from NPR's Planet Money, "Big Rigged." It's hard to feel like you have purpose if you can't make ends meet and you feel like you've been exploited ... yet this is an example of capitalism at its finest, no?

Dec 3, 20 3:22 pm  · 
4  · 
tduds

"UBI + capitalism is good, and that the safety net will definitely create a crisis of purpose for some others who will fill the free time with destructive behaviors, which I’m also ok letting people have the freedom to do." Ok, we agree, I think.

Dec 3, 20 5:42 pm  · 
 · 
square.

EA, looking forward to listening to that episode, but no doubt by the description, it's a perfect example of what unchecked capitalism will do to every job (aside from the few "luxury" positions): degrade it through an attack on protections and eventually compensation and overall well-being, resulting in the absurd position that one must go in to debt to be a truck driver.

Dec 4, 20 10:23 am  · 
2  · 
proto

capitalistic innovation is self-interested by definition

there is no humanism or greater good in capitalism - it is sociopathically self-interested

Dec 3, 20 1:58 pm  · 
3  · 
tduds

Well there's a gross oversimplification of equilibrium if I ever saw one.

Dec 3, 20 2:06 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

Worth emphasizing that long term stability of large systems often includes painful over-corrections. In the case of animal self interest you're looking at habitat degradation, prey population collapse, mass extinctions, to say nothing of external factors like invasive species or natural disaster (or long term climate change). 

"Stability" is a slippery term depending on your time horizon. Stability over centuries doesn't mean much to the people who will be born, live, and die during an unstable set of decades. To reduce the very real ability of human intelligence to influence systems to a concept of natural oscillation is to ignore the effect - positive or negative - that human influence has already inflicted upon the lives of billions. 

More simply put: We can rise above the cruel amorality of the natural world. In many ways we already have.

Dec 3, 20 2:11 pm  · 
3  · 
tduds

" The idea that self-interest is the only motivation for business is completely wrong and overly cynical." 

Good thing nobody said that, then.

Dec 3, 20 2:32 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

"Business" and "Capitalism" are different words with different meanings.

Dec 3, 20 2:40 pm  · 
3  · 
tduds

You just don't want to admit I'm right.

Dec 3, 20 2:52 pm  · 
2  · 
proto
square.

i hope the irony of providing a link for this book to be purchased on amazon is intentional.

Dec 3, 20 4:29 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

Another good essay I came across recently. I think this explains a lot of the miscommunication and "talking past" that happens here. When debating anything, but especially when debating politics, it's important to be aware of what you're actually talking about. It's more important to be aware of what your opponents (or allies) are talking about.

I speak often of the "should / is" problem, where an attempt to discuss what "should be" is countered with what "is", and vice versa. This essay goes one step further into the sort of philosophy of meta-debate, & puts terms to the parts of politics that people often fail to distinguish between (myself included).

"The compass, the navigation, the travel, and the corrections."

http://www.armoxon.com/2019/02...

Dec 7, 20 1:13 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Tangentially I'm a couple hundred pages into Moxon's novel "The Revisionaries" and it's amazing. I hope it can maintain this brilliance to the end.

Dec 7, 20 1:14 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

"We have power drunken pirates sailing the ship, and their compass is possibly broken." 

"More often, especially if the destination is an ambitious one, or the path is long, there are challenges and setbacks and unforeseen difficulties. The route went off-plan, requiring delays and divergences and detours. Corrections." 

These are similar statements.

Dec 7, 20 3:14 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Also a good quote relevant to your point: "It’s OK to point out that the navigation is off. But when one does so to close off or delay questions of coordinated movement, then it’s the magic trick. Leadership disguised as governance. A compass statement disguised as navigation."

Dec 7, 20 3:17 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Clean, new page. This time we'll get it right, folks!

Dec 10, 20 1:30 pm  · 
3  · 
tduds

oops

Dec 12, 20 1:01 am  · 
1  · 
tduds

To avoid any accusation that I'm unfairly harsh on Republicans (who deserve every bit of scorn I give them) while ignoring the faults in Democrats (who are not immune to my scorn), let's address what I see as the biggest and perhaps least addressed problem in government: Gerontocracy.

https://www.newyorker.com/news...

Dec 10, 20 1:45 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

I see this travelling down well-worn rhetorical paths. If we, as a species, decided to put people's well-being ahead of money, power, and control, we probably wouldn't need to have the difficult conversation that boils down to "You're too old, time to retire." But we don't. We put money, power, and control on a pedestal. Keep moving upwards (a direction measured against an anti-human baseline metric, natch) or get fired, marginalized, and relegated to the pile of trash humans who don't "strive" enough.

Side note, I only just noticed you can indeed reply to comment threads that have been most recently commented on by an ignored member. Just go back to the original comment and click reply.

Dec 10, 20 2:08 pm  · 
2  · 
square.

read this as well. not sure it's the biggest problem, but definitely a big one. term limits, please.

good to know about replying, i've been wondering how to get around this... has been worth it though, as architnect once again feels like a sane space.

Dec 10, 20 2:14 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

tduds' patience is enviable.

Dec 10, 20 2:18 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

I'm just occasionally very distractable. Don't envy this.

Dec 10, 20 2:29 pm  · 
2  · 
Koww

i'm voting for this guy

Dec 10, 20 11:40 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

Why?

Dec 11, 20 2:18 am  · 
 · 
tduds

Who?

Dec 11, 20 11:21 am  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

I don't like his eyebrows.

Dec 11, 20 11:28 am  · 
 · 

I'll finish out the questioning: What? Where? When? How?

Dec 11, 20 11:58 am  · 
 · 
Koww

i thought ppl would recognize him. he shows up whenever i log into procore

Dec 11, 20 6:00 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

I miss procore. I'm doing CA on two projects entirely over email. My inbox is a disaster.

Dec 12, 20 1:04 am  · 
1  · 
randomised

sounds x-rated

Dec 13, 20 3:27 am  · 
 · 

Interesting ... https://twitter.com/Grassroots...

I'm gonna let this sit here for a few hours and see what happens

Dec 11, 20 12:10 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

Hard to see one pixel amongst the noise these days.

Dec 11, 20 12:33 pm  · 
 · 
square.

i'm too tired

Dec 11, 20 12:43 pm  · 
2  · 
proto

SCOTUS says Texas suit has no standing

it seems everyone knew that but the self-serving, amoral GOP "leaders" who backed it

Dec 11, 20 7:12 pm  · 
2  · 
randomised

They knew as well

Dec 13, 20 3:24 am  · 
 · 
tduds

"The Republican Party has proved that its hatred of liberals is so foundational that it will abandon any pretense of commitment to democracy, if democracy allows for the possibility that liberals might win an election."

https://www.washingtonpost.com...

Dec 11, 20 7:23 pm  · 
3  · 
tduds

Oh shut the fuck up.

Dec 12, 20 12:53 am  · 
3  · 
tduds

The Democratic / liberal / progressive / left resistance to Republicans / conservatives / right is based in the policies they pursue and the world they have created with the power they've gained. The sole remaining motivation of the right is to make the left mad. They're not the same you obtuse dolt.

Dec 12, 20 12:55 am  · 
5  · 
tduds

Hey look it's even in the damn op-ed I posted: "“But Democrats hate conservatives, too!” you might say. Indeed they do. Negative partisanship — being more motivated by your dislike of the other party than by affection for your own — is a key feature of contemporary politics. But when 18 Republican state attorneys general, more than half of House Republicans and multiple conservative organizations all demand that the results of a presidential election where no fraud was found be simply tossed aside so that Trump can be declared winner, something more profound has been revealed."

Dec 12, 20 12:56 am  · 
 · 
tduds

btw Trump *did* win. It was only four years ago. Surprising you don't remember the extremely peaceful and dignified transfer of power that happened then. 

You're free to disagree with both parties, but to pretend they're even remotely equal just grants quarter to some of the worst assaults on democracy itself in this country in your or my lives. Just because this coup is quixotic and unwinnable and mostly a money-scam doesn't make it less of an attempted coup. 

You're not above it, you're growing complicit. And we're noticing.

Dec 12, 20 1:00 am  · 
4  · 
tduds

Here's the chariman of the Texas GOP - not some random extremist but a *high ranking party official* - advocating for secession.

Image

Dec 12, 20 1:19 am  · 
3  · 
randomised

“ And had Trump won, there would not be any commitment to democracy, or civilization for that matter from the left.” They had months of practice, no reason to think they would magically stop rioting and looting just because their preferred candidate would have lost...

Dec 12, 20 2:20 am  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

I'm sorry, but j-laxative, you're high af, and severely damaged.

Dec 12, 20 8:35 am  · 
 · 
tduds

Ok, Republicans go first.

Dec 12, 20 11:39 am  · 
1  · 
tduds

Pretending both sides are "fake" and "equally bad" ignores the fact that one policital party - not a fringe group, but literally hundreds of elected and appointed officials up to & including the sitting president of the United States - is actively seeking to overthrow the results of a free and fair election, and the other is not. 

I'm not arguing against Republicans from the perspective of a Democrat. I'm arguing against authoritarianism and tyranny from the perspective of an American. How fucking dare you immediately derail a point about this by insisting we acknowledge the imperfections of "the other side" WHILE AT THE SAME TIME accusing me of whataboutism.

Dec 12, 20 11:49 am  · 
5  · 
tduds

This isn't even really about ideology anymore, I'm annoyed at you - specifically and personally. You jump into every conversation and demand the topic bend to whatever idiot whim you farted out that morning and thought brilliant. You argue from this position of elevated remove, yet curiously only seem to get your proverbial knickers in a twist when it involves whining about "the left". You make conversations impossible. Every post you comment on devolves quickly into you making outlandish statements or wild misinterpretation and then everyone else expending the sum of our efforts trying to clarify and un-nitpick. It's exhausting, You're exhausting. And I dunno, maybe if you're reminded of that more often you'll gain a little self awareness and control. Or maybe not. Whatever. I've said my peace. Bye.

Dec 12, 20 11:57 am