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liberty bell

I’m losing it, so close to total burnout. This profession is bonkers.

May 5, 20 10:43 pm  · 
2  · 
curtkram

this is hard times. seriously, take a couple days of pto. take naps. if you need to get out of the house, go for a drive (in the country is better because we have sky and trees and more than 6' between people). if you don't stop what's building up in you now before it gets bad, it could become uncontrollable, so get out ahead of it and focus on you.

2  · 
Non Sequitur

my (almost) 4y old threw his shoes out of the window of the car while my wife was taking a drive earlier today. Now we're scrambling looking for a place that's open because his other shoes are getting too small. Not related to your situation or this profession but we're laughing pretty hard about it. Hope all is well and that you can split work and home long enough to catch your breath.

1  · 
liberty bell

I hear you, curt, but it is so hard to override decades of training in believing that we architects are super humans who can keep going no matter what.I can’t take a break, because the mechanical engineer needs my drawing, so that the contractor can price it, so that the client can decide to change it all again to save money, so I can spend more time fighting for fees to cover the changes than I actually spend designing a damn thing, and I do it 60 hours a week while getting paid for 32. It’s a fucking hamster wheel and frankly I’ve been looking for a new career for a while but this pandemic may just push me right into it! (I should be clear that it is not my firm‘s fault that it’s working this way, it’s a culture that sees architects as lackeys to the almighty client, a position we have put ourselves into. My firm is awesome but the system is a meat grinder.)

3  · 
liberty bell

And Non thank you for that story, yes, a child throwing shoes out a car window is somehow hilarious!

2  · 
midlander

it's tough with so many disparate things crowding for time and especially attention. wish you luck in finding space to get away and peacefully disengage from it all.

 · 
square.

i've had my eye on the door for quite some time. unfortunately it feels like this pandemic is putting that on pause, but i'm looking to the other side. i hear you though- it really feels like a lot of this profession is becoming unsustainable, and frankly unenjoyable. regardless of the expectations school sets, the fact is like you said the architect is generally at the bottom of the pile, and we have more and more to manage every year with all this shit that they keep piling into buildings, while consultants somehow manage to keep their scope very narrow/reasonable. i'm hopeful that automation could really help with some of this stuff, but the rate at which things change in architecture i'm also skeptical.

1  · 
CodesareFUN

Same. Fuck this profession. All I ever wanted to be, sacrificed for it only to serve owners’ ROI and hate it more and more each day.

2  · 
curtkram

let's start learning from and acting like our clients and consultants then. somehow they are able to put a project on hold for a couple days without the world crashing down. we can do it to. manage expectations. communicate clearly. have a solid project plan and stick to it.

4  · 
square.

curtkram i agree this helps, and a lot of offices don't do this, but the problem i'm talking about is the fact that we have to oversee every single consultant, and the list keep growing every year, not to mention the things they do also get technologically more complicated (this problem isn't necessarily always there if your work is on the smaller scale). my point is the way in which architecture operates needs to change or the only thing we will be doing is putting out fires, like liberty is describing.


2  · 
archanonymous

​When it is worth it, it is really worth it - opening up a new building to see the students/ residents/ users move in, start interacting with the architecture, making it their own... it's incredibly gratifying.

1  · 
archanonymous

But those moments seem to get lost among the spreadsheets, the bullshit codes, the developer clients, the value engineering, the systemic elimination of any uncertainty or risk (the foundations of innovative architecture) in pursuit of higher profits for the builders, the owners, the developers, but never for us.

2  · 

Exactly - everything is in pursuit of higher profits for developers and owners, and usually at the expense of normal people in the community. I said on an online panel discussion about public space yesterday that as architects our clients are not just the people paying us, but the communities in which the project exists, too. I mean, I *could* become an automaton who spits out ROI, but that's not why I went into architecture!

5  · 
archanonymous

I often think it would be easier if we were just looking to make more money on projects - then you are talking a language the owner/ builder understands. "Why are you dissatisfied" "I need more money on our contract to make this worthwhile." "Ok, here's more money." versus "Why are you dissatisfied" "I need to work on projects in a way that address the social and cultural needs of our changing society." "..... um, ok. I guess i'll find another architect."

1  · 

Thought experiment: Would it be easier to be an automaton spitting out ROI if we didn't have to worry about the public's health, safety, or welfare? How can we best tell our client that we have to serve both their interest as well as the public's HSW, and that quite frankly they are being selfish with their own interest?

2  · 
archanonymous

It was at one point the job of our professional organizations to do that and to uphold those interests by eliminating competition on fees from the profession, among other approaches.

1  · 
archi_dude

So a few years back I left architecture 6 months after getting my license to go work at a GC. I got the shiny license but found no raise and remained a BIM monkey that was left alone but still very much a BIM monkey. EVERYTHING was/is better and I would NEVER go back. Designing my own projects for sure but never in a firm again. However the hours were longer and if you divide salary by hours worked it's sort of the same. What this pandemic has done is show me that once again my career could be decimated by a recession (started in 2010). While my friends in tech and sales are just fine, this whole thing has been a vacation, they work 100% remote, 20-30hrs a week and make way more. I'm proud of what I do and enjoy it and now 10 years in to my career feel as though I can contribute alot. But job insecurity, the hours that seem to create a divorce factory and the pretty average pay...I think I'm throwing in the towel on the AEC industry after this one and selling out. But what a ridiculous guilt, "selling out" it's a career, the whole point is to sell out.

2  · 
SneakyPete

Work to live.

1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

I gave notice last Monday! FUCK YEAH!

7  · 
square.

sticking with arch? something new?

 · 

This discussion of long hours makes me rather thankful that the first firm I worked at out of college didn't have a culture of long hours. In fact you had to get permission to work overtime - even if you where salaried. It was a nice place to work. Now I'm in Colorado and the culture here seems to be that unpaid overtime is normal. I refuse to work more that 120 hours of unpaid overtime a year (about 2 hours a week). I did the math and beyond those 120 hours my overall pay rate is too low to justify it.

1  · 
tintt

This burned-out architect spent the day on the couch. I was very successful at avoiding everything.

4  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

square., i am going to a new firm, plus they wfh exclusively, even before rona.

1  · 
SneakyPete

You're in the Bay Area?

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

No, I wish!

1  · 
SneakyPete

It's fest or famine out here at the moment it seems.

 · 
proto

Donna, my mantra is "there are no emergencies in architecture"

repeat that to yourself a few times

when your client decides to offer you a slice of the risk/reward pie, then you can adopt his urgency as your own...until then, it's just a contract. If they want urgency, they can figure how to build that into their pro forma

"there are no emergencies in architecture"

"there are no emergencies in architecture"

"there are no emergencies in architecture"

May 6, 20 11:40 am  · 
5  · 
curtkram

we should all put Donna first today! Especially Donna

2  · 
tduds

THUMBS UP FOR DONNA

3  · 
Non Sequitur

This thumb up/down feature is awesome.  Just noticed one user go on a down-vote spree on me.  Doubt it they even know it sends me an email with their user name.

May 6, 20 10:11 pm  · 
6  · 
tduds

I thumbs up only. Spread the positivity!

4  ·  1

NS, I can't wait to see the next iteration of your thumbs up and down graph per user. The only reason I haven't turned off notifications for it is so I can do the same at some point.

2  · 
Non Sequitur

I may, or may not have created a gmail filter to store reaction notifications. We'll see how that works out in a few weeks.

4  · 
Non Sequitur

EA, I just discovered that if you mouse-over a thumbs up/down icon, a list of user names appears. Neat feature.

 · 

If you click on the number a pop up shows the likes, dislikes, and who they are from

2  · 
archanonymous

Anyone else's 'Rona anxiety especially bad today? Or not so much anxiety specifically about the virus, just the deep ideological and partisan divide it has opened up in the USA.


May 8, 20 10:18 am  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

It's snowing right now where I am... so yes, a little.

 · 
Wood Guy

Yes, less about the virus, though that is troubling. More anxious about the state of the world and especially the US. The machines are supposed to be taking over anytime now, right? Or maybe they already have and we just haven't realized it yet.

 · 
tintt

Yes. Agree the anxiety isn't about the rona anymore but politicks.

1  · 

Exactly there with you, archanonymous. I've definitely become one of those people who is so confused by hearing so many opposing ideas that are all supposed to be true that I just want to give up and stop listening or even caring. But I can't. My curiosity about the world leads me to want to hear everything, but it's so hard to know what to believe these days.

3  · 
Non Sequitur

A local quarry owner sent out a facebook message yesterday telling parents with young kids that they can go forage the quarry for stones to paint and whatnot for free as this is a popular community scavenger hunt activity atm. Anyways, that lasted less than 24hr because adults without kids came with buckets and pillaged the quarry for their own landscaping. People suck and are selfish. This situation is just making it even more obvious.

1  · 
archi_dude

Spoken like a true fascist Non!

 · 
Non Sequitur

^Thank you.

 · 
tintt

Fascist?

 · 
Non Sequitur

Tintt, it's ignorant speak for "don't agree with my vary specific and narrow pov".

 · 
curtkram

i stopped listening. for better or worse, it looks like i'm supposed to put on pants and go back to the office o n the 20th.

 · 
tintt

Oh, like You need to be a patriot!

 · 
x-jla

As an anxiety ridden person, I’ve always wondered how most people could be so mellow, now with the Rona everyone is neurotic like me, and I’m like calm down posers...I was a nervous wreck before it was cool...

 · 
x-jla

I’m x-jla btw. My less confrontational online persona. My posts from here on will be limited to 2 sentences.

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

x-jla, that last statement had three

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

My last day went like this;


May 8, 20 9:34 pm  · 
1  · 
liberty bell

The Californians always slays me!

2  · 
liberty bell

I’m 53 years old. Today I bought myself these:




May 8, 20 11:13 pm  · 
11  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Bell, you're the best!

1  · 
Wood Guy

Is your left foot really small?

4  · 
liberty bell

Perfect joke is perfect.

1  · 
Non Sequitur

will there be a video of your first use?

 · 
Wood Guy

And happy belated birthday, of course!

 · 
randomised

-x 


x-


https://youtu.be/vnXOAWoNADw

May 9, 20 5:45 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Maybe the x-lax joke got him?

1  · 
liberty bell

It came up again today, in a professional situation, that I really love working directly with the owner/user (sometimes they are the same party ) of the space. I’m really good at listening to what people say they want and being able to interpret what that really means and how it can actually work for them. Also I love doing renovation projects.  Sadly I’m hardly doing any of this in my current project, and I am missing it hard.

May 11, 20 3:45 pm  · 
2  · 
Wood Guy

I thought your new job was supposed to be more client-facing than your last job? Can you do anything to get back to that? Clients can wear me out, but not working directly with them wears me out even more.

 · 
tduds

I very much identify with this. Frankly, there's just more to pull from people's emotions than their pro formas. 

To your other point, I think the projects I'm most proud of have all been renovations + additions. Personally, I like to have extremely constrained conditions that I can find creative ways to break out of. Given a blank slate, I feel lost at sea without a creative "anchor" to grab onto.

1  · 
randomised

I hate working with/for people with very particular requests or demands that will never use the project themselves.

 · 
Wood Guy

My first time in Dwell magazine--an article on the Pretty Good House approach and also a mention of BS + Beer: https://www.dwell.com/article/pretty-good-house-building-standard-43dc021f.

Ironically, the project of mine they used as an example is one of the most traditional-looking homes I've designed. The other examples are more typical Dwell. I love the house Jeff Adams of Atmosphere Design/Build designed (and built) for his family, the one with Cor-Ten siding.  

May 11, 20 3:53 pm  · 
7  · 
randomised

pretty good article!

1  · 
Wood Guy

We had to make some corrections but I think he has it close enough to accurate now.

 · 

Nice work! I've always wanted to get into doing custom residential work. All the architects that don't do it all tell me it's impossible to make any money though. I have to wonder about that though as there are people like you Wood Guy who seem to be doing rather well. I'm so confused. ;)

1  · 
liberty bell

Well one, Wood Guy!! Your focus on low carbon means I’m feeling guilty about designing a Quonset hut but my husband is really enamored with the idea. And I’m pretty enamored with him, so...anyway, it’s a great article and kudos for sharing knowledge just to make the world a better place!

1  · 
Non Sequitur

Looking good.

1  · 
Bench

Well done WG! I’ve been tuning into the show for a few weeks now as well; I have to say that it’s way over my head for the most part but my game plan is to acclimatize via osmosis and soon be on your level... enjoying it regardless!

2  · 
Wood Guy

Thanks Chad! I can't say that residential is easy, and because I generally serve the middle class I'm not sure what the economic future will look like. I've never designed or built anything commercial and I'm probably too old to change at this point. For the last few years I've tried to do both construction and design, and haven't done particularly well at either, so now I'm focusing on building up my design work. I live in a rural area so I have to be flexible to keep the mortgage paid.

 · 
Wood Guy

Liberty Bell, every project is a series of tradeoffs. I am drawn to the simplicity of Quonset hut forms. I think we need to reduce the carbon footprints of the buildings we design, but that's not going to get us where we need to be regarding climate change, so it also make sense to plan for a less stable future. I'm working on a new concept, building on the work of Alex Wilson, called Passive Resilience and incorporating a Passive Resilience Index. I think a well-designed, well-built Quonset hut could fare well on the Passive Resilience scale, even if it's not the best from a carbon emissions viewpoint.

1  · 
Wood Guy

Bench, I'm glad you've been tuning in! With my lifelong stutter I never thought I'd be hosting a talk show, but here we are. We debated whether we should focus on entry-level education but the idea is for it to seem like we're all having beers at a pub, talking at the level we would normally, and that there should be at least something for listeners at all levels. I'm sure it's not the best way for everyone to learn, but hopefully you glean a few nuggets that will add up over time. I learn stuff on every show so far. I would be interested in knowing if we should scale back the discussion level. Much of the discussion on our mini-split show was over my head, but we have received more compliments on that show than any other, so it's hard to know. Maybe we'll do a poll this week.

 · 
Bench

Minisplits was one of the first i tuned into, which in hindsight was probably an unfortunate coincidence. That was heavy. The one on concrete this week sounds much more approachable in my mind.

 · 
Wood Guy

Yeah that was a deep one! One of my favorites so far was the one we did on concrete-free slabs: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvAmHSecglp-u-DTFQlU8Tw. I think the information is pretty accessible in that one. We did not have the format dialed in yet (and maybe still don't) and the panel was too big but we had fun.

 · 

Thanks for the candid response Wood Guy. I've done a few residential projects in my career and they where NOT easy. In my limited opinion the clients are more demanding than commercial work. Very satisfying to help create a home for someone though. :)

1  · 
x-jla

Congratulations Wood Guy!
I love the article and overall concept.

1  · 
tintt

Just took a call from a contractor who worked on my very first project when I was a (teenage) student intern. He's got work for me. 

May 11, 20 4:26 pm  · 
5  · 
proto

congrats, wood guy!

good read

May 11, 20 5:29 pm  · 
1  · 
Wood Guy

Thanks!

 · 
liberty bell

So here is what is happening in my COVID lockdown world. There are so many zoom meetings and requests for me to comment from podcasts, online panel discussions etc. that whenever a calendar invite comes in I just respond “yes”. And then I assume when the event happens, that I will wing it. *I don’t want to be that person.* I want to be the person who is thoughtful and generous and prepares for everything so I can give my best. But there are so many sources of input right now, I can’t seem to plan ahead more than 15 minutes. 

May 12, 20 10:47 pm  · 
4  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Let me know if you want to practice saying no with me.

2  · 
tintt

I need help saying no. Actually, I say it but it is not heard. I said no to a job. I got pics this morning showing they already did demo and where are the drawings of the new layout? I need an email equivalent of taking the phone off the hook. 

1  · 
archanonymous

tintt, sounds like you should always say yes to these, but with increasingly escalated fees. Job already started? sure, i'll do it, its 4x.

1  · 
archanonymous

Donna, I said yes to everything for 4ish or so years and only in the past 1-2 have i become OK with saying no... the important realization is that if you do say no, you can do the things you really care about better. (which you seem to know at some level per your post) My favorite strategy is to give them the "no, I can't do it, but how about X person." and recommend someone a little younger/ less experienced with less commitments and a want to grow.

1  · 
tintt

Ah, here's another detail. This is a family friend who expects free services. Anybody want a free job? You can have it. It's free.

 · 
archanonymous

lol. there's no fee high enough to work for a friend.

 · 
Non Sequitur

I'm currently working on a small residential project. No fee and the client is a real asshole. The end user is really awesome tho, so it makes it all worth while knowing my son will (hopefully) have a wicked backyard fort for the summer.

 · 
Wood Guy

On the last job I did for a friend I lost $7K and the friend. No good deed goes unpunished...

Non, a backyard fort sounds amazing! Some projects are worth doing even if the client is challenging. 

 · 

I wouldn't mind building a fort for my nieces and nephews!


3  · 
Non Sequitur

Did I forget to mention that I’m the asshole client? I’m totally going to bail on my architect’s bill. His fault for not asking for a retainer.

 · 
randomised

architects are the worst clients

1  · 
citizen

^ Some good comments on the subject of "no." It gets easier to say after some very painful "yes" aftermaths. (See the chart noting all the work while crying and panic stages that someone ;o] posted)

1  · 
Non Sequitur

So, it's not big surprised but my wife and I officially pulled the plug on our Disney summer 2020 plans. I think she held on for about 8 weeks longer than was reasonable. We'll have to try for next summer.

May 14, 20 11:07 am  · 
 · 

We pulled the plug mentally on our summer travel plans a few weeks ago, but yesterday I started cancelling reservations, etc.

2  · 
Bench

Did the kiddo's know already? Or was it a surprise? Honestly I think its for the best - you don't want all of your photos from the trip to be covered in facemasks everywhere ...

1  · 
Non Sequitur

We had (they were sent home this week) friends in Orlando and one of my good friends is a Disney rep, so we don't have anything to cancel. We had our quotes and were waiting. Converting those trip monies into backyard landscaping.

Bench, the kiddo is almost 4.  He's not aware of anything.

 · 
threeohdoor

Hey Friends,

So I got my job back, at least temporarily, at full pay. PPP application was originally denied, but then approved in the second batch. The principals re-hired everyone. Remains to be seen if there are enough projects on the vine to keep the staff through to the Fall, but here's hoping. 

At the very least, I have a subsidized period of time to look for work and/or figure out my future in architecture. 

Cheers.

May 14, 20 2:50 pm  · 
7  · 

Feeling pretty burned out this week and I'm looking for things to keep me from doing work ... so I was curious and put together my thumbs up, thumbs down chart (h/t Non Sequitur). Apparently I need to start posting more things people dislike to balance things out.

I debated whether or not to combine user's actual names and pseudonyms where they are known, but for now I've left them separate to 'protect the innocent.'

May 14, 20 5:53 pm  · 
7  · 

Why are you burned out this week?


By the way, you need to NOT protect the innocent.

 · 

Ha ha, that sounds more interesting than it actually is. I only know of one person it would change anything for on my chart. This particular user is quick to clarify their real name when asked about it. I think they'd prefer to post under their real name all the time, but for whatever reason when they do anything from their phone's browser it shows up under their old screen name.

If you look at the first two posts at the top of this page, you can figure it out.

1  · 

I think my screen is bigger than yours NS. The first two posts on my screen are liberty bell and yourself and I know that's not your real name.

 · 

Check out the comments here: https://archinect.com/news/article/150188248/melania-trump-is-building-a-classically-inspired-tennis-pavilion-on-the-white-house-lawn

Re: burnout ... mostly just a crappy month of project deadlines springing up out of nowhere, less ability to focus on work at home due to a 3-year-old running around, not having taken some time off for anything other than family medical issues in the past 1.5-2 years, canceling summer travel plans this week, etc. I just need a vacation.

1  ·  1
citizen

Don't worry, EA. I hate your posts  ;O]

1  · 

Yeah EA, I'll thumbs down a post for you right now 'cuz I'm a good person. :)

1  · 
archanonymous

Just tested it an apparently you can't give a post BOTH a thumbs up and a thumbs down.

3  · 
Non Sequitur

EA, I appreciate you putting the names in alphabetical order.

1  · 
liberty bell

Chad, I’m both liberty bell and Donna. Same person. I will point out that if you combined the two bars under my name and my pseudonym I do the most liking of your posts, Everyday! Non and nam are both second place right behind me.

1  · 
curtkram

get out. Go for a drive. Somewhere about three states away. take hand sanitizer with you

 · 
randomised

.


1  · 

A lot changes in a day. I decided to stop 'protecting the innocent' when I realized there were more that should be combined / got more likes from people who had changed pseudonyms.


4  · 
Wood Guy

Has anyone watched The Watchmen TV series on HBO? I'm finding it well done--thoroughly fantastical but somehow not campy. In it much of the population wears masks all of the time. I wonder if we'll do the same eventually? As facial recognition becomes ubiquitous and we veer toward anarchy, it may be helpful for reasons other than health. 

Also, bump--TC was almost off the front page. 

May 17, 20 5:31 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

Watchmen was fantastic! I think Episode 6 ("This Extraordinary Being") might be the finest single episode of television I've ever seen.

1  · 
Wood Guy

We just watched that one last night--I agree that it was excellent.

 · 

I haven't watched The Watchmen but I just watched Guy Ritchie's The Man From U.N.C.L.E. and it was a delightful skewering of masculine tropes in action films! Loved it. Silly fun.

May 17, 20 10:09 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

We watched Ritchie's new film (The Gentlemen) on Friday. It wasn't bad. Not as good as his classics though. I'll add Man From UNCLE to the list!

 · 

LOVED The Gentlemen, and that was what then led me to U.N.C.L.E. I still haven't shown Snatch to my 16yo, maybe this weekend. The greatest initial appearance onscreen ever by Brad Pitt - he's pooping behind a trailer ("caravan")!

 · 
randomised

Still recovering from watching ‘Years and Years’...Great soundtrack and Emma Thompson is just so spot on!

May 18, 20 4:43 am  · 
2  · 

Years and Years was so good.

1  · 
randomised

Scarily so...should not have watched it during this pandemic on lockdown

 · 

COVID-19 Lay-off Thread reads like a government document that has been redacted so it could be declassified. Mods aren't playing around anymore. 

May 18, 20 10:07 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

You love to see it.

 · 

THANK YOU to whoever did that. I love it and support that level of moderation on the threads that are trying to be serious.

1  · 
square.

thank god. would be interesting if there was also a way of labeling users based on how many of their posts have been hidden, on a scale - a sort of "parental advisory warning" for dumbass content

1  · 

It's a much better read now. Thanks to who ever did that.

1  · 
randomised

One person’s dumbass content is the other person’s thesis or...the beauty of this place is or was that it is all out there, nowhere to hide but behind a smartass username or two. I miss that ‘nect...

 · 

Only a coward hides behind an anonymous username or two.

 ·  1
archanonymous

i don't know about that. Those of us who work at larger firms enjoy some measure of anonymity unrelated to shit-posting.

2  · 
Non Sequitur

Gotta disagree with ya there Chad. Some of us want some sheltering between our real professional lives and other internet wankers. I get enough PMs from one-post-ponies looking for employment tips as it is... I can't imagine what would happen if it could be traced back to my linkedin or office emails.

3  · 

And some of us just want to be able to communicate with others without fear that Balkins will stalk us online. 

I'll probably get an email from him about this too. I got one the last time I posted something about people following me here in order to get notified of when I post.

2  · 
archanonymous

Great points also - I don't need one of the nutters here filing a complaint with my state board just because i typed out something that offended them.

3  · 
Bench

Also agreed. Balkins bizarro comments about Donna a few years back only underscored my desire for anonymity here. I think maybe three other posters know who I am IRL, and that is plenty.

 · 

I know of two that know who I am IRL: 1) Everyday Intern, and 2) that guy who occasionally posts under his/my real name.

 · 
Non Sequitur

Fine EA, i'll take you off the xmas card mailing list then.

 · 

Sorry NS, I had know idea your investigative skills were so good. 

There is probably enough information that I've put out there that if someone really wanted to, they could figure out who I am ... I just doubt anyone cares that much. The bad part is, the person who does care, isn't going to care because they want to send a x-mas card. They'd probably have more nefarious motives.

 · 
Non Sequitur

It's ok EA, I don't send out xmas cards anyways. Come to think of it, I've communicated in one way or another with my real email with half of the users in this particular comment chain.

 · 

I'm more paranoid than you are. I created a separate email account to use for archinect so it can't be tied back to my real email.

 · 
Non Sequitur

I have a tongue-in-cheek email I use to reply to one-post-ponies for that reason too. I turn it on & off depending on who PM me.

 · 
CodesareFUN

As they shouldn’t be. A couple jackasses derailed that thread. Oddly enough, I don’t mean Balkins. 

May 19, 20 12:05 am  · 
3  · 

You mean me?

 · 
randomised

It’s the jackasses that make this place im(h)o, otherwise the circlejerk is just too much. [insert iconic Apple commercial here]

 · 
square.

sure, the fringe opinions are fine. but hijacking a thread devoted to layoffs stemming from the coronavirus is extremely unhelpful for people who are looking for information regarding the subject. it's not different than someone moderating a panel discussion about a specific subject so that any random person can't just yell out their thoughts whenever they please. people seem to think that the internet's creation of a space where people are able to say anything they want all the time is a direct reflection of our reality, when in fact conversations are moderated all the time- whether through an actual person like the example i mentioned, through physical ques, office policies, or through a hesitation to be a complete ass to a person when talking to them face to face. so, no, hiding people's irrelevant comments on a very specific thread is not creating a circle-jerk per your words, it's focusing the conversation so it's actually fruitful.

3  · 
midlander

i agree actually. i like the salty unintellectual bent of the commentariat, it's a good contrast to the aspirations of the editorial content.

 · 

+1 square. I can't help but point out that most of the stuff that got hidden would have been fine in the COVID-19 Thread Central discussion, but it was too far off topic for the lay-off thread.

1  · 
CodesareFUN

Exactly - spout shit all you want, but do it in the right spot.

1  · 

Is here the right spot? Asking for a friend. . .

 · 
CodesareFUN

Last I knew Thread Central was always the right spot.

 · 
randomised

I don’t know, square, it’s not really a conversation to begin with. it’s multiple monologues repeating the same thing over and over again, I thought the initial post that caused the stir was a breath of fresh air in a thread full of near-identical sob stories

 · 
square.

randomised- are you going to a lay-off related thread for entertainment? quite a bizarre statement. i'm sure those who are concerned about their livelihoods and abilities to provide for themselves and their families, what you call "sob-stories," are worried about providing you some excitement. again, if that's what you're looking for go for it in another thread, not at the expense of people who are struggling right now

3  · 
randomised

It is just people venting...and yes their struggles and concerns are sob-stories, or tear-jerkers, doesn’t make them less true or real, they are just depressing because reality is depressing...and if someone vents their concerns in a little bit different way, a bit more poetic or revolutionary, that is suddenly such a big issue? Come on...don’t blow this out of proportion.

 · 
liberty bell

I’m pretty sure I just yelled Fuck you! at my phone for not connecting to the 15-person Zoom meeting that my computer was already connected to and for which I had not yet muted my mic.

May 19, 20 11:17 am  · 
9  · 

If that doesn't earn you Friday off for a four-day weekend, I'm not sure what will.

1  · 
gibbost

Too funny. I had nearly the same thing happen last week. The call kept asking me for my access ID. After typing it in multiple times and feeling my blood pressure rise, i shouted 'well, fuck off then I didn't want to join the call anyway.' to which someone on the call replied, 'i think you've already joined--we can hear you.'

3  · 
liberty bell

gibbost that’s exactly what happened LOL.

1  · 

Could of been worse. You could of been in the bathroom and thought you where on mute. :)

 · 

Was on the other side of that unmuted “conversation.” The camera went off, but bathroom fans are louder that what one would hope. That was the prelude to the rest...

 · 

That's unfortunate.

 · 
citizen

Tip: smart phones have an amazing ability to amplify the sound of urination while standing.

 · 

Well- there’s precedent for appropriateness, and it’s already been taken to the highest level.

 · 
randomised

Should it maybe be visible next to the username who moderates discussions on here, can be done very tasteful and minimal: randomised (moderator) or something like that.

May 19, 20 3:20 pm  · 
1  · 

I think most of the mods here are quite up front in their postings who they are. It's good idea though.

1  · 

I'm not so sure. I think I've really only ever seen Paul, Donna and b3ta make reference to their moderating ability. Most of the other moderators I know of haven't advertised it.

1  · 
randomised

“ Most of the other moderators I know of haven't advertised it.” exactly!

2  · 
citizen

There are moderators here?

1  · 

I thought it was just the big green head.

1  · 
Non Sequitur

Zardoz

big green head.

2  · 

That's the one! Now barf up my gunz!

2  · 
Non Sequitur

Chad, I see you're a fine cinema connaisseur.

1  · 

I always thought of this as the BGH

 · 

LOL at citizen's hidden comment above ^

2  · 
citizen

Oh, dear. Hidden? Really? I'd better start putting my affairs in order.

1  · 

NS - I'm all about the red mankini.

2  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Any American Ex-Pats working in Canada now? Let me hear your kill scream!

May 19, 20 7:25 pm  · 
1  · 

randomized and FRaC:

On the Maya Lin thread: can you please just give it a break. This sounds to be someone who wants to do a serious project.

May 20, 20 7:18 am  · 
5  · 
randomised

A serious project by excluding one gender completely? This is 2020 not the 1980s, I thought we're passed such openly blatant sexism already, apparently not :(

1  ·  7

randomized I just don't fucking have time to deal with you today. Your use of "sexism" in the above comment is wrong. It's OUT OF DATE. The culture has moved beyond your use of that word in that way. I beg you: Go do some research about contemporary cultural norms because I, and tduds, don't have time to keep trying to teach you when your refuse to learn.

6  · 
square.

randomised, i'm so sorry you feel excluded from this student's project. disregard the fact that women have only been allowed to vote in this country for 100 years, but who's counting?

4  · 
randomised

whatever...can't really learn if i'm excluded from the conversation because of my fucking gender now can I? Guess that deplatforming really does work, good job(!)

1  ·  5

I guess randomised is an incel.

6  · 
square.

the fact that you think you're supposed to gain something from that interaction shows how self-centered and insecure your response is- the student is asking to learn from role models, which is their prerogative to choose who that might be. there's no anti-male conspiracy going on here. are you shedding your crocodile tears when kids look up to only male athletes at the exclusion of women, "deplatforming" as you call it (?) because that's who society has historically deemed more valuable?

8  · 
SneakyPete

randomised, upon hearing a child ask a question beginning with "Mom...," launches into a diatribe about how the kid is excluding people and others opinions and suppressing their right to free speech.

6  · 
Wood Guy

Seems like an excellent learning opportunity for randomised, actually. When claims like theirs are valid, we will finally have actual equality among genders. I hope we're headed there but we certainly aren't there yet.

3  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Give it another millennia Wood.

1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

random, take it as though she is doing a zoom session, where you only listen, learn, and can't comment.

2  · 
randomised

Nice one Chad...very classy. Must feel really emboldened with all those thumbs up your ass, got to love the new feature Paul, you've created a monster.


On a different note, no I'm not an incel...but a happy father of two little boys that I have to tell that some people on archinect told them it is okay to be excluded from the conversation simply because of their gender. While I'm actually trying to teach them the opposite...my little boy who actually loves to dance around the house to Michael Jackson & Justin Timberlake, makes beautiful drawings (better than that fugly brick facade of yours Chad), and who happens to have his toenails painted red this week because he so looks up to his amazing mother, and she painted hers too. So fuck you Chad, I wish you 4 more years of Donald Trump and that your workspace and shortcuts reset to default.

 · 
randomised

Thanks b3ta, nice spin on it, good to keep in mind...but then what does the student get out of this transaction? She'll miss my invaluable input(!)

 · 
Non Sequitur

Rando, respectfully, there is a big difference between teaching equality and freedom of self-expression to kids than interjecting politics for the sake of politics in an otherwise benign discussion. You might as well have asked why not consider another monument/designer if that's the angle you're sticking with.

 · 
randomised

Not really Sneaky, couldn't be farther from the truth. I actually take care of my kids and raise them to be loving and caring individuals that respect both men and women equally. I took 6 months off after both my sons were born...stayed with them and cared for them and when their mother already had to go back to work I was there for them. And now both of us stay at home one day a week with them, so both of us are part of their upbringing and share the parenting equally. So there's that...I only have issue with the fact I couldn't even ask a question that I thought it was unfair and perhaps sexist to exclude men when discussing the impact of Maya Lins work, and I have to shut up and listen, just because I am a guy? And that my posts were deleted just sucks, censorship is never the answer, if you can't even discuss sexism ( or whatever definition of sexism is allowed on here)...that's not going to end sexism, it will only support the status quo. But apparently that is not (allowed to be) my problem.

 · 
Non Sequitur

I share the same parenting goals as you and often get compliments that I, as the father, take on such an involved role. (We have many dr. and therapists to deal with so many apps to share). That’s tangential to the point. What you’ve done is derail the basis of the posters hypothesis to make an unrelated point and then you turned it up to 11 in the same way the #whitelivesmatter crowd did a few months back.

 · 
randomised

Not really derailed I think, I only asked a seat at the table and asked if it wasn't sexist to only invite women. It was totally related until Donna didn't have the FUCKING TIME to school me (or something), I don't have screenshots and now it has all been censored and deleted. I do get angry when being censored, yes, and being wrongly accused of stuff also doesn't really help. Ah well, you should've been there maybe, or better not ;-)

 · 

rando - if you post crap that reads like a page from an incel playbook I'll call you as such. You can post what you want but part of that is dealing with the repercussions of others that don't agree with you. If you can't handle that then don't post such things.

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

what the student get's out of the transaction is two-fold; first, she get's to talk the group she solicited, and she gets to do that in way that isn't mansplained. you know, you are coming across as a guy that wants to explain to a young girl what it means to have a period, when her mom could do that. So unless women just drop off the planet, which right now they might want to, I'm going to pretend anything I might have to offer would be best delivered when solicited.

 · 
randomised

Chad, I didn't even know there was an incel playbook to begin with, you've been using this whole lockdown situation wisely or did you perhaps contribute to it? ;)

 · 
randomised

b3ta, maybe it is because I am from a country and a continent where it is totally normal for a father to take part in the upbringing of their offspring, where it is normal for men to take time off after they've become a parent, where there is much greater equality between men and women and governments take active measures to promote part-time working for parents, where there's very little tokenism. So when people try to school me about sexism, well you know, I'm simply lightyears ahead and it just rubs me the wrong way when people are excluded because of gender, you should be passed that already in the States...but instead you elect a guy like Trump. You know you can't fight the patriarchy by promoting a matriarchy, they didn't fight the enslavement of black people by promoting enslaving white people either. If you can't even criticise or question possible sexism coming from women, if you are censored for even daring to ask such a questions, that's just not helping at all and creates a divisive atmosphere rather than one of unity. But hell, maybe the US will get there one day too, fingers crossed!

 · 
Non Sequitur

Rando, I also hail from a land with superior social progress than our American friends. Regardless, gender is still an important variable and as much as everyone wants everything to be squeaky-clean... it's not. So let's not ignore this in favour of this very short censorship podium you're screaming from.

Time for a classic Simpsons throwback:


 · 
randomised

I'm not ignoring anything nor am I screaming, although I do feel like talking to a wall on archinect these days...I just don't like to be censored and deplatformed for obvious (reverse?) sexist reasons, that's all, and if only people would acknowledge that, that'd be great...And I'm not digging the hole, I've been pushed into the hole and they keep throwing dirt on top of me, but like the donkey in the pit I will get out eventually!

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Ok, so that tack didn't work, let me try this. Teacher asked Audrey a question, Audrey's ready to answer, and random runs into the class and says I know the answer. You weren't asked, your hand wasn't raised, you don't get the privilege of responding.

 · 
randomised

But if the teacher only asks Audrey because Audrey is a woman and random is not allowed to answer, or not even asked (although he is in the same classroom paying the same tuition as everybody else) only because he is a man, but let's say Donna is allowed to answer only because she is not a man, that is still sexist. There is no privilege of responding, there's the privilege of banning responses solely because of gender, and the privilege of erasing questions that question such possible sexist practices.

 · 
Non Sequitur

It's a classic Simpsons morning folks.

 · 
randomised

.


1  · 
SneakyPete

How are you teaching anyone about respect when you can't even respect someone's request to hear from women without feeling personally attacked?

 · 
SneakyPete

Oh, and if you're so censored and deplatformed why are we still being subjected to your inanity? Your victim envy is showing and it isn't a good look.

 · 
randomised

I don't feel personally attacked by that request but by the censorship that came after my questioning the request. And about that victim envy, I am the victim here, I'm the one being censored and got my posts removed(!) So yeah, nice one blaming and shaming the victim...

 · 
SneakyPete

You're not the victim, I'm the victim!

 · 
SneakyPete

But then again I am from a progressive utopia where everything is perfect. Maybe someday you'll be lucky enough to be from somewhere so great that merely mentioning it is enough to shut down any counter arguments. Maybe. Someday.

 · 
randomised

That day was yesterday

 · 

OK, lets talk about something less icky . . ..

Exterior sunshades!  

More specifically how much a pain in the arse it is to design and install them on your own home.  Between keeping the better half happy, finding a way to keep maintenance low, and appeasing the home owners association I'm ready to not only pull out my hair but my beard as well. 

Uhg.  ::head - desk - thump:: 

May 20, 20 2:38 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

home owners association? why bother with that load of nonsense. Glad I don't have one of those to deal with.

 · 

They are all over out here due to the strict water rights. Without a home owners association it's pretty much impossible for a new development to get irrigation water.

 · 

I'm pretty much forced into using wood. I wanted to do steel. Now I have to figure out a wood species and a good stain to protect it. :(

 · 
Non Sequitur

Why stop there? Go full perforated panel:

Perforated Aluminum Plates

1  · 
atelier nobody

Chad - I've been spec'ing a lot of Black Locust lately.

 · 

NS - I'm sure both my wife and the HOA would love that.

 · 

atelier - never worked with black locust wood

 · 
atelier nobody

Chad, it's similar in may ways to Ipe, but is native to the SE US, and is not endangered. It has very good natural insect and decay resistance, comparable to Ipe, Red Cedar, all-heart Redwood, etc.

1  · 
Wood Guy

I've been wanting to use black locust for years but haven't had the opportunity. Hard to get here in New England, but it's possible. I even planted a small grove for myself. Good for pollinators too. From what I've heard, it can be gnarly stuff, prone to twisting, checking and splitting. But if the trees were straight and it was carefully dried it will last forever.

 · 
JLC-1

composite? not trex, but I'm sure there's something nicer out there.

 · 

I've mentioned this before, but I've really enjoyed watching the progress of these guys (Stephen and Alix) in New England on YouTube building a wooden boat from scratch. They've mentioned using black locust for a variety of things in the boat. Most recently it was to create butt blocks for the planking. I do recall that it wasn't the easiest for them to source. 

Another guy, Leo (a shipwright from England), has been restoring a wooden boat in Washington state. He's also been using black locust for some things, but I don't recall exactly what at the moment. If you're bored and looking for something to watch. I've found both channels extremely fascinating.

 · 

JLC-1, I looked at using composite and ran into a couple of issues. The first is the cost - the second is any manufacturer I talk to will not warranty their product for end supported use. I was basically told that the composite stuff will melt and sag in this heat. :(

1  · 

FYI - Here is what we're doing for the sun shades.  Don't laugh - it's still in progress . . .


 · 
SneakyPete

2x4? have 'em run through a planer for nice crisp edges (that will splinter off if you don't buy good wood)

 · 
SneakyPete

A thermally treated wood like Arborwood might fit the bill tho.

 · 
archanonymous

I always thought it was criminal that these stupid Home Owner's Associations try to regulate all this shit, but then they let the houses themseleves be constructed with shitty materials and cavity insulation (instead of exterior CI), use vast water-intensive plantings, and put the garages in the front where they kill street life. Anything to uphold the status quo! (not a criticism of your choice to live there, Chad, I know housing is extremely limited in Colorado)

 · 

Hadn't heard of Arborwood Sneaky, thanks. My office is always looking at Thermory or Kebony for this type of thing.

1  · 

Yup 2 x 4's. They have the right massing and provide enough shade. I wanted to go with a metal fin type shade and have it powder coated but the wife and HOA where both like 'errrrrr'


This HOA is rather chill.  They just have issue with the metal not fitting into the overall material pallet of the neighborhood.  I find that odd since our home has corrugated metal siding that is intended to rust. 


 · 
Non Sequitur

What's the penalty for not following the HOA?

 · 
JLC-1

All cedar? we've had a lot of issues with clear coats, make sure you put some tint or even paint them, UV up here turns those puppies black in a year.

 · 

JLC-1 - Cedar was just a placeholder. It actually dose quite well up here but you have to stain it every 2-3 years . I think that TMT wood archanonymous mentioned would be a nice choice. I jsut contacted Arborwood about more product information.

 · 

NS - I'm not sure about the HOA but my wife's penalty would be severe.

1  · 

For finishes, I've had the older architects at work swear by the Sikkens Cetol 123 system. Longer lasting than most that require refinishing every 2-3 years. I've been told it should be more like 7 years with the Sikkens product. Downside I've heard is that it's not everyone's cup of tea in terms of aesthetics.

Edit: looks like PPG bought up the line...

1  · 

Thanks EA!

 · 
proto

+1 on the sikkens/ppg

(a YOUTHFUL +1, of course...I'M NOT OLD YET)

2  · 

Care to comment on what the application process is like for the Sikkens/PPG is like? A typical opaque stain or thicker?

 · 
proto

sim to other penetrating stains. our local siding provider offers pre-stained, so for my personal efforts, it's only been cut ends. the other product we've spec'ed is messmer's uv plus

also, consider semi-transparent in the "wood look" colors, in lieu of transparent

 · 

Thanks for the info. I will definitely use a semi-transparent on any wood in my area.

 · 
Wood Guy

Looks good, Chad! I recommend using a rot-resistant wood with no finish. This one was reclaimed cypress: (https://www.ecocor.us/our-work/eastview-passivhaus)

3  · 
Non Sequitur

Sweet air-con design solution.

 · 

Chad, I couldn't tell you anything the product data sheet couldn't for application ... my HOA requires us to paint all exposed wood on the exterior of our home. In the case of fences, we can paint it or leave it to weather naturally.

 · 
randomised

Haven't seen a passiv house with air-conditioning before, maybe the unit can be put on a similar wooden rack as the shading ;)

 · 
Wood Guy

Sorry, I'm not sure what air conditioning design solution you're referring to? The house is heated and cooled with ductless mini-splits, a common approach in New England where I work--I've only seen one Passive House here in Maine without one.

The outdoor units are hung on manufacturer-supplied brackets, not my favorite solution because vibration can transfer through the wall, but these are 18" thick walls full of cellulose so not much gets through. The view shown is not visible upon arrival, and the house is 1/2 mile up a driveway on a mountainside so the aesthetics of the outdoor units was not important. The linesets run through a gasketed sleeve to maintain airtightness.

Together the house and studio use about $500 of electricity per year for all energy needs.

The house wasn't my design; I worked for the builder and supervised the shop drawings (panelized Passive House), including filling in a lot of missing details. I did design the porch and brise soleil. 


 · 
Non Sequitur

WG, I was referring to the outside unit. One of my triggers is HVAC stuff that appears glued to the exterior on a well designed building. Seems odd to not give it some attention. Don't get me started on white PVC dryer vents in cladding... don't. 8-)

 · 
Wood Guy

Got it, yeah not my favorite either. They are ubiquitous in my world and I've been trying to think of ways to make them look intentional, such as a full-height alcove built into the wall just for the outdoor units. In high performance homes we need one outdoor unit for each indoor unit, typically one on each floor, so there may be 2-3 outdoor units to deal with.

 · 
randomised

:)


2  · 
Wood Guy

I thought you were joking, but that actually looks great!

 · 
Non Sequitur

I’ll admit, it took me a minute or two to notice the change. Well played.

 · 
randomised

.

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Where's the shadow?

 · 
randomised

Taken by the magic wand.

 · 
Non Sequitur

This new Cyrus wanker is my new favorite chew toy... too busy to really play tho.  Now, who's alter-ego is this character anyways?

May 20, 20 3:58 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

Ah... he/she was just nuked.

 · 
JawkneeMusic

that would have been I

 · 
Non Sequitur

No shit...

 · 
JawkneeMusic

I was kidding.

 · 
Non Sequitur

well, consider me fooled then. That Cyrus chap had the same level of intelligence in their posts as you do.

 · 
archanonymous

Wow i just put on a collared shirt for a go-to meeting... and I'm wearing pants! First time both those things happened at once in like 70 days... feeling so professional!

May 21, 20 5:24 pm  · 
1  · 
citizen

Hmmm..... what are these mysterious "pants" of which you speak?

1  · 
archanonymous

(found in future history textbook) prior to 2020, what we now call "overpants" were just called pants, and what we call pants were called "underpants". Some people remember there was a similar linguistic tradition in the former United Kingdom involving something called "trousers", but no one survivors have been found to confirm what piece of contemporary clothing this corresponded with.

1  · 
SneakyPete

I call 'em breeks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeks

 · 

Since this began I'm calling anything on my lower body that involves a zipper or buttons "hard pants". Elastic or drawstring are soft pants. Yesterday I had to put on hard pants and I didn't enjoy it. When we go back to office work I think I'll just wear dresses.

1  · 
tduds

I think I'm the only American who's still showering and putting on real clothes every morning. I just love my routines too much to go full pajama-casual.

 · 
CodesareFUN

I’m showering, but real clothes are non-existent.

 · 
Non Sequitur

My work to casual clothing ratio is 20:1

 · 
randomised

The Corona-mullet: business on top, party on the bottom.

1  · 
CodesareFUN

We don’t need to know about your freeballin’

 · 
liberty bell

randomized, for an online panel discussion I wore a dress that was really too small for my current lockdown body, but the colors were exactly what I wanted on screen and they only saw my top half anyway. Style mullet.

2  · 
citizen

Love the 'hard pants' designation, Donna. Ever since I was little I've hated 'hard shoes' that we had to wear to church, weddings, etc. Uncomfortable to run around in, never worn enough to really break in... but they were suitably dressy, so that settled that. My adult footing experience has long involved the search for comfortable shoes that manage to look good.

1  · 
SneakyPete

Might I suggest Redwing Iron Rangers or Thousand Mile Wolverines?

 · 
citizen

You may! I really like their looks... are they super-duper comfy?

 · 
SneakyPete

Eventually. Takes a week or two of daily wear, but they eventually are more comfy than anything other than plush sneaks. If you take care of them and resole them when they need it (before wearing through to the insole) they can last pretty much forever. Even beat to shit they look great. There's a few threads and videos where people buy destroyed redwings and bring them back to wearable shape.

2  · 
citizen

Great, Pete, thanks for the inside story.

1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

i've got the Iron Rangers, need to get resoled.

 · 
CodesareFUN

Office just issued our guidelines for heading back to the office next month. Pretty damn comprehensive - was impressed.

May 22, 20 5:32 pm  · 
1  · 

Cliffs notes version?

 · 

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