In other romantic disasters, my guy from last week hasn't called. :( I've never been in a waiting-by-the-phone situation before, and indeed it does suck. There's a really terrible part of me with the urge to call and wail, "But I was just so nervoooous, that's not really me!!! Give me another chance!!!!" Of course I'm not actually going to do any such thing, but I think this portion of women must be with us from birth, genetically implanted. I recognize a brush-off when I get one, yet still, the feeling persists.
Damn - I seem to always come late to these discussions. I too, would have walked and pretty much agree with Rationalist's post. From your post it seems as though she doesn't play games, so my best advise is be up front and honest with her. She'll respect you more and feel more secure in the relationship.
It's an absolutely gorgeous evening. Spent a good half an hour using random stones in my yard to edge around my front bed. Hopefully I'll be able to find more and finish the border. The daffodils are in full bloom and the tulips are just beginning to bud. I heart this time of year.
Rationalist, I would have posted the image but I don't know how when it gets this complicated. My graphic oriented wife emailed it to me from 2 feet away.
snook. dude. apparently even a link was too complicated, because it takes me to a page with "Not Found" in Times New Roman.... and I doubt that's what you were going for.
RATIONIST....i think it was killed by the bush administration and if not them the Chinese....Darn with freedom of speech. I will work on it in the morning....that is after I save a "Diner"...I going dressed in my "Architecture Sucks, Tee Shirt~~~~
Oh thank goodness we're in the "romance help" portion of the discussion because I need help and I have no idea what to do.
I seem to have met the Best Man (re: Hawaii) at a rough point in his life. He may be losing his job at the end of this week! His company is hitting a bad patch and barely has money to pay rent because of the downturn in the housing market. I didn't even meet this guy 2 weeks ago, I think I'm crazy about him, and I have no idea what to say. What do I say? I'm a worrier so that doesn't help matters. And I'm certainly not in any position to offer financial advice....yesterday I gave up spending money, and today I went shopping! (But it was at American Apparel Warehouse, and my friend works there so it was like 75% off, so it doesn't count)
Any ideas?*
*I want to apologize for not saying anything intelligent on this forum for the better part of a few months. My brain power is all going towards assignments and what not. I hope you'll forgive me.
Well duh, DubK, you ask him to move in with you, of course!*
Or offer to sell his ipod and Bose headset and send him the money.*
Or say the same simple yet helpful things we all say to those we care about: It's tough out there right now, but you're smart and resourceful and you'll figure out something - another firm? Another field? School? And you offer to be there for him as a shoulder to cry on AND a loving kick in the butt to keep him trying.
nice pix of hawaii and sf on your flickr pages, wk.
keep in touch with best man and wait it out, me says. (don't give any man the opportunity to let someone help him out of a financial situation because, if he's smart, he'll take it.)
...and from the guys' side: i was pissed at techno's s.o. his reaction was a natural one...a triggered response. why should someone who's done nothing have to come clean?
And rationalist, there's nothing wrong with admitting you were nervous - don't wail it, like your post above implies via loooong typing! But say you had fun and would like to do it again. Say it rationally(!) and honestly. Everybody likes to hear that.
yeah, Rationalist. It IS 2008, and you seem like the non-traditional type. Ask him on a date. Something, fun, neutral, and daylit. Just in case you start to get nervous again. Like a bike ride!
And WK, I would just empathise with him, and if you're really into him, suggest he look for employment in your neck of the woods. Things are cheaper in CA than in HI(is that the right abreviation?), right? I say, if you have no little money, then go where that money can get you more.
Steven you simply must tell us all of the excitement of your vacation. I can't wait for Husband and I to go on ours, sans child of course. Oh May 2, why must you be a month away!
Thanks Steven...I was almost beginning to think my emotional hurt for being accussed was unwarranted. Despite that I know I responded totally incorrectly.
Okay we have a departmental review, and well I have to pick up the reviewer from the airport. Be back in a few. Signing out!
nah techno, it's not unjustified. It's just that a lack of denial comes off as slippery, i.e. "I'm not going to actually deny it, so that you can't call me a liar later when you find out it's true." And yeah, say what you want about it should be obvious that you're not that sort of guy, but nobody seems like the're that sort of guy until they've proven that they are, so it's just as natural for a woman to be suspicious of non-denial as it is for your to be hurt by the accusation. Bad situation all around.
Sarah, funny you mention that as the first date involved riding tandem. With me in back! I mean, a guy that can get me to lighten up on the control-freak-ness on the first date is priceless, I think. There's been low-level communication already: he sent me a song he was working on, I responded with a super quick "thanks, that was hilarious, and I had fun last night" via email. But now I wonder if, compounded with my nervousness on date, that may have come off as not so interested. I'll give it at least one more day before I think about calling.
Rationalist - Just call him. Why wait. Life is too short to "play games" for lack of a better term.
SW - I don't think we meant for him to come clean (at least I didn't). Hell he didn't do anything, but a simple "No" would have been so much better. But hindsight is 20/20. All one can do in those situations is to try to take a deep breath before blurting out something you might regret for a long time after.
I met ms. tk in the post 9/11 recession where I was on the dole for 7 months. she stuck with me and even helped me escape brooklyn for philly to start grad school and work. so if the best man can deal with this economic hardship with grace and resiliency, he's a keeper. don't write him off, but offer emotional support and companionship from afar.
atechno- men and women are different - it's how well two different folks negotiate the translation between the language and expectations of estrogen and testosterone that makes or breaks the relationship. good luck.
tuna, I guess I didn't realize that it might look like I was playing games! I was really just thinking that I didn't want him being annoyed that I wouldn't leave him alone, so if I gave it one more day and he happened to call tonight, then I would save myself that stress and embarrassment. But the accusation is duly noted, and I will proceed more directly.
you hit the nail on the head. Stop, breath, think then respond. That has always been my failure in life...sigh.
I forgot to mention that I finally got my office laptop - yippee!! Granted its taking me forever to bring it up to speed to my personal one (less the software that came via less than noble means - yes I said it, damnit)
So much love drama. DubK, give him all the support and encouragement you can manage, just no loans. Ratio, things sound promising, with a friendly start. Try putting it on a side burner of mind, helps with the nervousness and thinking about what you could have done. Now, I have to go back and figure out what Techno did or didn't do.
the only problem i have with relationships these days
is people wanting to knock boots so quick and early,
people dont take time to get to know you any more.
and i cant stand it when some guy sees who im dating
and their like..."dude have you banged her yet?"
or "hows that?" thats so disrespectful, it makes me so
angry.
DubK, it looks like you came at the perfect time
for Mr. Best man. Just be honest with him, call
him, tell him some encouraging words.
vado, I suspect that (compounded with the problems chronicled in the Dear Abra thread) is why I'm so bad at this... I haven't really done the dating-as-getting-to-know-someone thing before. Previous dates have always occurred after some sort of spontaneous physical encounter with someone already known to me. So this is definitely new territory.
- I guess what I pretty much meant to say is that if you like him and are interested, than CALL HIM. It's sounds from your prior post that the only communication you two have had was a brief reply to an email he sent you, right? Didn't you also state that you were worried that your nonchalant email and nervousness might have come off as you being interested? OK, so call him. Take some deep breaths, (this gets more air to all your organs including your brain, which in turn helps you think) and just do it. If it's too much than email him. Seriously I think you'll feel so much better about everything. The game isn't so much about what you are doing to him, but what you are doing to yourself to.
WK - I pretty concur with everyone here. Ultimately there's not much you can do for him, but be emotionally there for him. Listen to him and support him, in his decisions. This is probably the thing he needs the most right now... to know that someone out there cares. Oh and persuading him that SoCal is the place to be right now wouldn't hurt either. I find this whole situation a little ironic, as it always seems people find love at the most inopportune times in their lives. My most significant relationships have always started at some major crossroads in my life :o/
Speaking of relationships... a guy I dated about two or three years left a message on my home VM this weekend saying that he saw that I had bought a house (he was looking on the county auditors website) and just wanted to congratulate on buying it (it was last year) AND if I felt like it to give him a call.
tuna, a guy you dated for about two or three years? Or a guy you dated about two or three years ago? If the former, leave it be! If the latter, go for it.
On a brighter note, I had a portfolio review and thesis-chat with the grad program advisor today, and it went pretty well. She felt about how I do regarding my thesis ideas, agreed with my thoughts on who my committee members should be, and in the surprise of the morning declared me to have become a competent typographer! That felt a bit like I imagine Gin might've felt getting the 'ok' to take off the arm-sling, as I've felt like the knowledge that my typography wasn't up to par has been a handicap the whole time I've been here.
Rationalist - it was the latter. We dated for a few months two or three years ago. I'm leaving it be anyways, as the chemistry in general wasn't there. I just thought it was ironic as we've been talking about dating.
Tuna, I think the Bestman situation is maybe possibly fate. He is losing his job, freeing him up to move to greener/sunnier/smoggier pastures...it is smoggy in LA, right? WK, you are in LA, right? Well, you all know what I mean. But, don't take it as pressure, just a happy coincidence.
And I could be wrong, but it seems to me that along with womens lib, guys have become lazy, and dont want to take the effort to 'hunt' a woman, and instead leave it to the woman to be the 'go-getter' and call him. I, for one, would prefer to be hunted, in the non-stalker/serial killer sort of way. It would make me feel wanted. If all you're afraid of is rejection, Rationalist, then be that 'go-getter' since you seem to be that kind of girl already, and don't let traditional roles block you in. I like the traditional roles, though. Good thing I grew up in a small town!
i hope everyone's relationship/love woes work themselves out...
i have *good* relationship news to post: my s.o. and i got our first apartment together this weekend. we move at the end of april- right before i graduate. i was super nervous... but after going and looking and deciding on this place together- i feel very confident... i am excited! not so scared about not being a bachelorette anymore!
Sarah, one great irony in all of this is that I found Honolulu to be more polluted than LA. LA has actually really cleaned up its air in the past 20 years, and when I got to Honolulu, my sinuses immediately clogged up. It could have been the plane too, but HNL had terrible traffic as well. I'm sure others will disagree....perhaps it is my brain rationalizing the sniffles I had.
The other cute thing is that he is definitely wooing me.....while being totally honest about his situation. I completely appreciate it, and it's quite cute that he hasn't lost his sense of humor.
Congrats +i! That's a big step....life is about doing scary things, have fun with it.....
i told most of the story: driving and/or chasing two toddlers around florida (tampa, ft myers, miami, davie) and atlanta for a week and a half. i don't recommend it.
...unless you also want to know that the 1yr old learned to walk, was weaned, and was teething during the trip
...and that the 2 1/2yr old was potty trained during the trip...
i don't know if i can take too many more vacations like that.
it seems like you get most things/family development done on these vacations - potty training the 2.5 yo, teething and walking the 1 yo - sounds like an accomplishment to me.
Thread Central
I would have walked, too. Yeeps atechno just say No!
In other romantic disasters, my guy from last week hasn't called. :( I've never been in a waiting-by-the-phone situation before, and indeed it does suck. There's a really terrible part of me with the urge to call and wail, "But I was just so nervoooous, that's not really me!!! Give me another chance!!!!" Of course I'm not actually going to do any such thing, but I think this portion of women must be with us from birth, genetically implanted. I recognize a brush-off when I get one, yet still, the feeling persists.
Damn - I seem to always come late to these discussions. I too, would have walked and pretty much agree with Rationalist's post. From your post it seems as though she doesn't play games, so my best advise is be up front and honest with her. She'll respect you more and feel more secure in the relationship.
It's an absolutely gorgeous evening. Spent a good half an hour using random stones in my yard to edge around my front bed. Hopefully I'll be able to find more and finish the border. The daffodils are in full bloom and the tulips are just beginning to bud. I heart this time of year.
This one is a must for the "Fancy Graphics Lovers"
https://webmail.optimum.net/attach/11_230-pequim2.jpg?sid=&mbox=INBOX&charset=escaped_unicode&uid=802&number=1&filename=11_230-pequim2.jpg
Rationalist, I would have posted the image but I don't know how when it gets this complicated. My graphic oriented wife emailed it to me from 2 feet away.
snook. dude. apparently even a link was too complicated, because it takes me to a page with "Not Found" in Times New Roman.... and I doubt that's what you were going for.
WAIT an EFFINGG minute, Fall Out Boy RING TONES! Advertised on my fair Archinect?!
Kill me now.
RATIONIST....i think it was killed by the bush administration and if not them the Chinese....Darn with freedom of speech. I will work on it in the morning....that is after I save a "Diner"...I going dressed in my "Architecture Sucks, Tee Shirt~~~~
Oh thank goodness we're in the "romance help" portion of the discussion because I need help and I have no idea what to do.
I seem to have met the Best Man (re: Hawaii) at a rough point in his life. He may be losing his job at the end of this week! His company is hitting a bad patch and barely has money to pay rent because of the downturn in the housing market. I didn't even meet this guy 2 weeks ago, I think I'm crazy about him, and I have no idea what to say. What do I say? I'm a worrier so that doesn't help matters. And I'm certainly not in any position to offer financial advice....yesterday I gave up spending money, and today I went shopping! (But it was at American Apparel Warehouse, and my friend works there so it was like 75% off, so it doesn't count)
Any ideas?*
*I want to apologize for not saying anything intelligent on this forum for the better part of a few months. My brain power is all going towards assignments and what not. I hope you'll forgive me.
Well duh, DubK, you ask him to move in with you, of course!*
Or offer to sell his ipod and Bose headset and send him the money.*
Or say the same simple yet helpful things we all say to those we care about: It's tough out there right now, but you're smart and resourceful and you'll figure out something - another firm? Another field? School? And you offer to be there for him as a shoulder to cry on AND a loving kick in the butt to keep him trying.
*joke
nice pix of hawaii and sf on your flickr pages, wk.
keep in touch with best man and wait it out, me says. (don't give any man the opportunity to let someone help him out of a financial situation because, if he's smart, he'll take it.)
...and from the guys' side: i was pissed at techno's s.o. his reaction was a natural one...a triggered response. why should someone who's done nothing have to come clean?
And rationalist, there's nothing wrong with admitting you were nervous - don't wail it, like your post above implies via loooong typing! But say you had fun and would like to do it again. Say it rationally(!) and honestly. Everybody likes to hear that.
revision:
from:...this portion of women must be with us from birth...
to: ...this portion of all people must be with us from birth...
yeah, Rationalist. It IS 2008, and you seem like the non-traditional type. Ask him on a date. Something, fun, neutral, and daylit. Just in case you start to get nervous again. Like a bike ride!
And WK, I would just empathise with him, and if you're really into him, suggest he look for employment in your neck of the woods. Things are cheaper in CA than in HI(is that the right abreviation?), right? I say, if you have no little money, then go where that money can get you more.
Steven you simply must tell us all of the excitement of your vacation. I can't wait for Husband and I to go on ours, sans child of course. Oh May 2, why must you be a month away!
guys who are down on their luck make better lovers!
Not in London, Vado. At least, thats what Jerry Jeff says....
Thanks Steven...I was almost beginning to think my emotional hurt for being accussed was unwarranted. Despite that I know I responded totally incorrectly.
Okay we have a departmental review, and well I have to pick up the reviewer from the airport. Be back in a few. Signing out!
didnt you ever read down and out in london and paris?
No, I haven't. Can you give me a brief synopsis? Based from your previous post, and now this one, its sounding a bit 'Midnight Cowboy'ish.
nah techno, it's not unjustified. It's just that a lack of denial comes off as slippery, i.e. "I'm not going to actually deny it, so that you can't call me a liar later when you find out it's true." And yeah, say what you want about it should be obvious that you're not that sort of guy, but nobody seems like the're that sort of guy until they've proven that they are, so it's just as natural for a woman to be suspicious of non-denial as it is for your to be hurt by the accusation. Bad situation all around.
Sarah, funny you mention that as the first date involved riding tandem. With me in back! I mean, a guy that can get me to lighten up on the control-freak-ness on the first date is priceless, I think. There's been low-level communication already: he sent me a song he was working on, I responded with a super quick "thanks, that was hilarious, and I had fun last night" via email. But now I wonder if, compounded with my nervousness on date, that may have come off as not so interested. I'll give it at least one more day before I think about calling.
Vado that and his book based on his time in Burma are my two favorite Orwell writings..
A friend lent me, Down and Out in Paris and London. It made me nostalgic for a tiem i didn't even live in!@
Also, rationalisti personally don't think there is such a thing as too eager. Give the call, i say.
Rationalist - Just call him. Why wait. Life is too short to "play games" for lack of a better term.
SW - I don't think we meant for him to come clean (at least I didn't). Hell he didn't do anything, but a simple "No" would have been so much better. But hindsight is 20/20. All one can do in those situations is to try to take a deep breath before blurting out something you might regret for a long time after.
OK, it's back to work for me.
wK-
I met ms. tk in the post 9/11 recession where I was on the dole for 7 months. she stuck with me and even helped me escape brooklyn for philly to start grad school and work. so if the best man can deal with this economic hardship with grace and resiliency, he's a keeper. don't write him off, but offer emotional support and companionship from afar.
atechno- men and women are different - it's how well two different folks negotiate the translation between the language and expectations of estrogen and testosterone that makes or breaks the relationship. good luck.
tuna, I guess I didn't realize that it might look like I was playing games! I was really just thinking that I didn't want him being annoyed that I wouldn't leave him alone, so if I gave it one more day and he happened to call tonight, then I would save myself that stress and embarrassment. But the accusation is duly noted, and I will proceed more directly.
SPRING IS IN THE AIR! LOVE IS EVERYWHERE!
hmmmm i thought kids today just hooked up and didnt want the whole "dating" thang?
you hit the nail on the head. Stop, breath, think then respond. That has always been my failure in life...sigh.
I forgot to mention that I finally got my office laptop - yippee!! Granted its taking me forever to bring it up to speed to my personal one (less the software that came via less than noble means - yes I said it, damnit)
So much love drama. DubK, give him all the support and encouragement you can manage, just no loans. Ratio, things sound promising, with a friendly start. Try putting it on a side burner of mind, helps with the nervousness and thinking about what you could have done. Now, I have to go back and figure out what Techno did or didn't do.
TK, I think your discription of what relationships are is very interesting. I've never thought of it on a purely chemical level.
love is in the air,
the only problem i have with relationships these days
is people wanting to knock boots so quick and early,
people dont take time to get to know you any more.
and i cant stand it when some guy sees who im dating
and their like..."dude have you banged her yet?"
or "hows that?" thats so disrespectful, it makes me so
angry.
DubK, it looks like you came at the perfect time
for Mr. Best man. Just be honest with him, call
him, tell him some encouraging words.
snook_dude, you are right, it is Spring time!
Tee hee, someone named Dapper Napper is giving us advice. I wish I was a better napper.
Sarah, I think I will suggest that he send his resume to SoCal....couldn't hurt, right?
Also, Philarct is awesome!
vado, I suspect that (compounded with the problems chronicled in the Dear Abra thread) is why I'm so bad at this... I haven't really done the dating-as-getting-to-know-someone thing before. Previous dates have always occurred after some sort of spontaneous physical encounter with someone already known to me. So this is definitely new territory.
- I guess what I pretty much meant to say is that if you like him and are interested, than CALL HIM. It's sounds from your prior post that the only communication you two have had was a brief reply to an email he sent you, right? Didn't you also state that you were worried that your nonchalant email and nervousness might have come off as you being interested? OK, so call him. Take some deep breaths, (this gets more air to all your organs including your brain, which in turn helps you think) and just do it. If it's too much than email him. Seriously I think you'll feel so much better about everything. The game isn't so much about what you are doing to him, but what you are doing to yourself to.
WK - I pretty concur with everyone here. Ultimately there's not much you can do for him, but be emotionally there for him. Listen to him and support him, in his decisions. This is probably the thing he needs the most right now... to know that someone out there cares. Oh and persuading him that SoCal is the place to be right now wouldn't hurt either. I find this whole situation a little ironic, as it always seems people find love at the most inopportune times in their lives. My most significant relationships have always started at some major crossroads in my life :o/
Speaking of relationships... a guy I dated about two or three years left a message on my home VM this weekend saying that he saw that I had bought a house (he was looking on the county auditors website) and just wanted to congratulate on buying it (it was last year) AND if I felt like it to give him a call.
tuna, a guy you dated for about two or three years? Or a guy you dated about two or three years ago? If the former, leave it be! If the latter, go for it.
On a brighter note, I had a portfolio review and thesis-chat with the grad program advisor today, and it went pretty well. She felt about how I do regarding my thesis ideas, agreed with my thoughts on who my committee members should be, and in the surprise of the morning declared me to have become a competent typographer! That felt a bit like I imagine Gin might've felt getting the 'ok' to take off the arm-sling, as I've felt like the knowledge that my typography wasn't up to par has been a handicap the whole time I've been here.
Rationalist - it was the latter. We dated for a few months two or three years ago. I'm leaving it be anyways, as the chemistry in general wasn't there. I just thought it was ironic as we've been talking about dating.
Tuna, I think the Bestman situation is maybe possibly fate. He is losing his job, freeing him up to move to greener/sunnier/smoggier pastures...it is smoggy in LA, right? WK, you are in LA, right? Well, you all know what I mean. But, don't take it as pressure, just a happy coincidence.
And I could be wrong, but it seems to me that along with womens lib, guys have become lazy, and dont want to take the effort to 'hunt' a woman, and instead leave it to the woman to be the 'go-getter' and call him. I, for one, would prefer to be hunted, in the non-stalker/serial killer sort of way. It would make me feel wanted. If all you're afraid of is rejection, Rationalist, then be that 'go-getter' since you seem to be that kind of girl already, and don't let traditional roles block you in. I like the traditional roles, though. Good thing I grew up in a small town!
i hope everyone's relationship/love woes work themselves out...
i have *good* relationship news to post: my s.o. and i got our first apartment together this weekend. we move at the end of april- right before i graduate. i was super nervous... but after going and looking and deciding on this place together- i feel very confident... i am excited! not so scared about not being a bachelorette anymore!
Sarah, one great irony in all of this is that I found Honolulu to be more polluted than LA. LA has actually really cleaned up its air in the past 20 years, and when I got to Honolulu, my sinuses immediately clogged up. It could have been the plane too, but HNL had terrible traffic as well. I'm sure others will disagree....perhaps it is my brain rationalizing the sniffles I had.
The other cute thing is that he is definitely wooing me.....while being totally honest about his situation. I completely appreciate it, and it's quite cute that he hasn't lost his sense of humor.
Congrats +i! That's a big step....life is about doing scary things, have fun with it.....
+i
it is all downhill from here...
Philarct
have you banged her yet?
rollin single for now mdler
sarah -
i told most of the story: driving and/or chasing two toddlers around florida (tampa, ft myers, miami, davie) and atlanta for a week and a half. i don't recommend it.
...unless you also want to know that the 1yr old learned to walk, was weaned, and was teething during the trip
...and that the 2 1/2yr old was potty trained during the trip...
i don't know if i can take too many more vacations like that.
It's nice to be hunted/wooed. Huge self esteem boost eventhough we're all supposed to be beyond that now and seeing our own inner beauty.
my exgf/future wife is very nice and before you ask mdler the answer is yes i have and vicey versey.
it seems like you get most things/family development done on these vacations - potty training the 2.5 yo, teething and walking the 1 yo - sounds like an accomplishment to me.
Wow, Steven, that was quite a trip. Is it true that children tend to regress in one area (temporarily) when learning something new, like walking?
And I bet your wife is relieved your children are weaned; I can't wait, and I'm only 7 weeks in.
anybody else thinking that the beijiang olympics this summer will be one for the ages...and possibly for all the wrong reasons too?
puddles,
the thought had crossed my mind
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