Pixelwhore - [http://featuredfoods.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/a-store/gino_p1.shtml?L+scstore+lxkd4988ginosffba34ba+1159998124]Gino's[/url] just off Michigan Ave. and Superior St.
i hear you guys. my now wife and i always spoke of the need not to marry. after 8 years of being together, i dropped the question on her. at that time, she mentioned that she had also been thinking about it recently. almost 10 years later, we are still happily happily married. i wonder if there are stats on the sucess of marriages of people who are together 5+ years before marriage vs those that make the decision to get married after being in a relationship for a couple of years.
The 'I'm too stupid to figure out what grad-school to go to, so please help me' season has started.
Do we ignore them? respond with an automatic - 'seach the site, your question has already been asked and answered'? maybe erase the post immediately?
-or-
Do we mandate that all grad-school curious need to log at least 100 posts on other subjects before we acknowledge their confusion over their education status???
Remember you'll never really "be ready" to get married. And you'll certainly never "be ready" to have a child. You just do it.
As far as I'm concerned marriage is freedom. Don't laugh!!!! What I mean is once you get married that's one big decision out of the way that lets you focus on lots of other stuff in life, only now you have a partner who is with you (sometimes against you, but that's true of any partnership and you work it out) in every decision.
I've always likened marriage to the line by Rosencrantz (or Guildenstern - whichever Tim Roth plays which changes throughout the film) in the brilliant Tom Stoppard movie Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead: "One is free, for a time, on a boat." In other words, you're actually much more free when you have constraints.
I will say this (listen, vado, cuz I'm not sure how this went for you but it's never too late): a good heartfelt proposal is important. I didn't get one and after 8 years of marriage I'm still a little disppointed and waiting.
yeah, a good heartfelt proposal goes a long way. i gave one to my wife and today [10 years later] when she tells people about it, i get the "oh, you are so sweet" looks from the ladies and the "thanks a fuggin lot for making things a lot more difficult for me" look from the men.
as i mentioned earlier, my brother just announced that he is getting married. his soon to be wife is 15 years younger than he is. he told her that she needed to ask him to marry her. i think it was his was of saying "honey, i'm ready whenever you are." the first few times she asked him, he told her that it didn't count. the first time she asked was late at night after they got home drunk from the bars. he was in his boxers watching tv on the couch. the second time he was bending over while he was picking up his dog's crap. while not heartfelt, i told him that any woman that is willing to ask you to marry her while watching tv in your underwear or while picking up crap is a keeper.
lb, put the pressure on your man for the 10th anniversary. he's got two years to prep. no excuses.
Sometimes you really don't think those count.... mine proposed once, in the middle of the night, by saying, "How about it? We could drive to Vegas and be back in time for studio." I didn't think he was serious and didn't think twice about rejecting him (I was 18 at the time). Later I came to find out that he considered it a real proposal and was hurt that I'd said no!
The first time my husband proposed, it didn't count either. The second time it did, an oddly romantic story... Twas Saturday morning, I had just gotten the mail and was flipping thru the junk and came across an ad for a jewelry store. I had my back to him and as I was picking up the ad to take it to the trash I murmerred something like "We're never gonna get married" cause we'd been talking about it for months, but nothing was happening and the ad was a sad reminder for me. I turned around with ad in hand, AND WHOA my man was down on his knee HOLDING THE RING. There in our dining room. Saturday morning. How the hell did he have that on him? Why did he pick that moment? You bet I was surprised.
i would be interested to know how many marriages which stem from the "superproposal" actually last. you know the kind where the proposal is done on the big screen at the stadium or in a packed restaraunt? first the proposee really can't say no or they would embarass their s.o. in such a way that the guy would never recover. so rather than saying "well honey i have to think about it, don't you think you should have a job first etc..." they agree and its all down hill from there. i think anyway...
As for me... I don't know how you guys do it, I'm the type who would wonder for years about it if I didn't get a clear proposal. Last bf did the thing rationalist's did twice--each time I said, "what are you talking about, I'll believe you when you have a RING" and then the 3rd time he poked a hole through a complimentary piece of restaurant bread and stuck it on my finger. I found out later he thought those were "real", too. I found it slightly rude and symptomatic of immaturity, which was a confirmed suspicion a few months later when he cheated on me with an ex-crack whore (no joke). ANYHOW clearly you guys don't have similar experiences...
Am I the only girl here who would be insulted and concerned if my bf told me *I* had to ask *him* to marry me?? I guess I'm kind of old-school. I kind of want someone to make a big fuss out of me if he is making such a big decision concerning his life with me. Otherwise I'm the type that would worry over whether he had really wanted to do it or not.
My aunt dated my uncle for 4 years before they were married, and evidently he only finally asked her to marry him because his mom kept asking him what was going on. My aunt told me recently that every time they hit a rough spot over the years she couldn't help but think "maybe he only married me in the first place because his mom wanted him to, and he never really wanted to himself..." I couldn't deal with that kind of worry.
yeah, i can understand you myriam. at first i was surprised by my brother saying such a thing to his girlfriend. i knew i wanted to make a big deal about me asking my now wife in a rather private way. it was sans ring though.
I hear ya too, myriam. And you comfort me- when I found out that was a 'real' proposal, I couldn't help but think, "But what if that's it? That's was my only chance? Ever? And I didn't even think it was REAL?!" So it's good to know that life goes on after one of those relationships (though it's not over yet, the knowledge that it will be knaws at me inside). I can't help but think that I've spelled 'knaw' wrong there, it just looks horrible.
I don't mind the idea of a ring-free proposal, because what if you hate the ring he picks out? Just as long as there is something to let you know that it is real. Down on one knee, something to make it serious, formal-ish, so that you know for sure it's not just bed talk. Oh yeah, that's what made 'the proposal' even worse, we were in bed at the time. Who believes a proposal in bed? I'd feel like a fool for counting on a proposal made in bed.
I carefully selected the word "heartfelt" regarding proposals, as I too tend to think the big-deal skywriting/jumbotron/cheerleaders proposals are more about the event of asking than the desire to share one's life with someone.
Doesn't need to be a big production, it just needs to be honest. A cousin proposed by holding the ring right in front of her face and gently waking her up because he knew it was the only way he could surprise her - a big dinner out, boat ride, whatever would have been suspicious. I think that's wonderfully romantic.
We can't be too rough on my man, he DID hand-carve my engagement ring (after I told him I thought it was time I had one!).
oh yeah lb i hear ya. i dont consider the proposal i described as heartfelt. it should be a personal moment between two people who are in love and want to suffer together for eternity...
now fooling around in a bed after the proposal is alright with me, and should be manditory.
lb, no roughness at all directed towards your man. afterall, he is your man and we all know how great you are. just trying to look out for you and your big ten-o.
Rationalist, I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said. I don't really care about the ring either--I want to design my own anyway (insert legitimate ring thread reference here)--but I guess I just needed something to prove it was legitimate. I honestly do find that kind of thing to be a symptom of emotional immaturity, and my current relationship (as well as the aforementioned demise of my last) has SERIOUSLY borne that feeling out. I mean if it were a serious guy who was serious about the question, then I wouldn't have felt the need to make a point about the lack of a ring. Y'know? Also, yeah, one of his was in bed--I totally agree about that.
And libertybell--that cousin's proposal is awesome. I would LOVE that. Kudos to the man.
So wait, rationalist--is it not working out so hot? Is this all about the eucalyptus, after all? ;)
Also I feel the need to confess that during my perusal and response of this thread, I called my boyfriend for a little stuck-at-work-pick-me-up, and what did he casually tell me? He took a self-portrait I drew for him in to get framed today. That's the first time anyone's ever had something that I created framed. Framing is expensive. He even got the UV-blocking glass. I can't believe he actually went and quietly had that done.
No, it's most definitely not about the eucalyptus. It's about his stay-at-home, family oriented, unambitious nature vs. my independent, wandering, overachieving nature. To put it in perspective, this is the same guy I've been complaining to abra about for over a year now.
Yeah, I hope I'm not letting myself get too excited about him, though. You never know what it's gonna be like when we're actually living in the same town. I get worried sometimes.
can the asphalt shingle be 2.5" to 12" roof slope?
i got married and divorced long time ago. we stayed married 5 yrs. she was an architect too. was no big deal. i don't remember how it happened proposition wise. it just happened. ceromony was in a nice restaurant where her father feed us and about 100 of our friends to veal chops.we couldn't go back to our flea infested apartment and spent the night in shangri la hotel not too far from our place. next morning we went home and set some flea bombs and took of for new york, the first stop of our honeymoon and from there took of for maine in a rent a car. we went to isle a hout in maine an dropped acid.
it was great. upon our return the fleas were dead and shortly after that we rented the front portion of morphosis office building which was a small corrogated bldn'g with us in the front morphosis people in the middle and painter andre miripolsky in the back.
i just think this whole ceromonial proposition deal is little too much. i mean... how can you promise your life and stuff? how can you promise the unknown. so, i would still get married but make no big deal about it. which we are ok with it. tina was married before too. no pressure here.
hey please do not forget my asphalt shingle question on top. thanks in advance.
Also, not to be Debbie Downer, but these conversations give me a scratchy feeling in the pit of my stomach. I am at the other end of the spectrum and am terrible at dating. I also have a lot of opinions and find that I am becoming more and more uncompromising. Imagine my surprise when I found the guy that I am seeing now, who is great and who I have a ton in common with, then have another guy come after me so I blow off #1, only to find that #2 is immature and doesn't have a lot to offer, so I go back to #1 and am still hoping that he can get past my mistake. I am great at making mistakes, BTW.
Essentially, I feel as if I will never get proposed to. Because let's face it girls, every woman wants a proposal. Doesn't matter how or when or where, just that it happens. I think lb made an excellent point in that, I have so many goals and I just feel like if I could have a buddy to move ahead with, I could get so much accomplished. All i really want is a man, a house and a dog. But I can't afford a house without a man and I can't get a dog without a house. You see my conundrum.
~~~
Orhan I could be wrong but I thought the minimum roof slope on an asphalt shingle roof had to be 4:12. Don't quote me on that.
Here's my plan: Universal Studios when Jaws pops out of the water. I can promise (I'm sure Myriam could vouch in some manner) that the right woman for me would totally appreciate it. If you knew me it would make complete sense.
"I believe" = "99.99999% sure but now horribly afraid that I'm remembering something incorrectly."
Pixel, that proposal would be PERFECT for your future lady! I think anyone who knew you would get a kick out of that.
And wonderk, I'm sorry. Let's all stop talking about this nonsense. Back to the holy business of architecture. I can bitch about my contractor some more... oh and don't worry, we ALL suck at dating. I really dont' know how any of this EVER works out. I guess maybe one day it just doesn't stop being fun.
Asphalt roofing shingles cannot be successfully installed on each and every roof. These products depend heavily on gravity to keep water from entering your house. As the slope or pitch of a roof increases (gets steeper), gravity can pull the water off of your roof faster. Thus, the steeper your roof, generally, the better asphalt shingles perform.
Roof slope is commonly called out as the amount of vertical rise per amount of horizontal run. By convention, the amount of horizontal run is commonly called out as 12 inches. A common roof slope (pitch) used in many ranch houses is 4 inches of vertical rise for every 12 inches of horizontal run. This is called out as a 4/12 pitch roof.
Asphalt shingles can be applied on roofs with a slope (pitch) as low as 4/12 and as high as 21/12 using standard installation practices. Low slope roofs between 2/12 and 4/12 require special application methods, as do roofs that exceed 21/12 pitch.
Thread Central
Pixelwhore - [http://featuredfoods.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/a-store/gino_p1.shtml?L+scstore+lxkd4988ginosffba34ba+1159998124]Gino's[/url] just off Michigan Ave. and Superior St.
...for some pizza with your beer.
i hear you guys. my now wife and i always spoke of the need not to marry. after 8 years of being together, i dropped the question on her. at that time, she mentioned that she had also been thinking about it recently. almost 10 years later, we are still happily happily married. i wonder if there are stats on the sucess of marriages of people who are together 5+ years before marriage vs those that make the decision to get married after being in a relationship for a couple of years.
damnit!
Gino's!
**argh!!!!***
The 'I'm too stupid to figure out what grad-school to go to, so please help me' season has started.
Do we ignore them? respond with an automatic - 'seach the site, your question has already been asked and answered'? maybe erase the post immediately?
-or-
Do we mandate that all grad-school curious need to log at least 100 posts on other subjects before we acknowledge their confusion over their education status???
Remember you'll never really "be ready" to get married. And you'll certainly never "be ready" to have a child. You just do it.
As far as I'm concerned marriage is freedom. Don't laugh!!!! What I mean is once you get married that's one big decision out of the way that lets you focus on lots of other stuff in life, only now you have a partner who is with you (sometimes against you, but that's true of any partnership and you work it out) in every decision.
I've always likened marriage to the line by Rosencrantz (or Guildenstern - whichever Tim Roth plays which changes throughout the film) in the brilliant Tom Stoppard movie Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead: "One is free, for a time, on a boat." In other words, you're actually much more free when you have constraints.
I will say this (listen, vado, cuz I'm not sure how this went for you but it's never too late): a good heartfelt proposal is important. I didn't get one and after 8 years of marriage I'm still a little disppointed and waiting.
yeah, a good heartfelt proposal goes a long way. i gave one to my wife and today [10 years later] when she tells people about it, i get the "oh, you are so sweet" looks from the ladies and the "thanks a fuggin lot for making things a lot more difficult for me" look from the men.
as i mentioned earlier, my brother just announced that he is getting married. his soon to be wife is 15 years younger than he is. he told her that she needed to ask him to marry her. i think it was his was of saying "honey, i'm ready whenever you are." the first few times she asked him, he told her that it didn't count. the first time she asked was late at night after they got home drunk from the bars. he was in his boxers watching tv on the couch. the second time he was bending over while he was picking up his dog's crap. while not heartfelt, i told him that any woman that is willing to ask you to marry her while watching tv in your underwear or while picking up crap is a keeper.
lb, put the pressure on your man for the 10th anniversary. he's got two years to prep. no excuses.
he should make something for you. maybe out of fiberglass.
Sometimes you really don't think those count.... mine proposed once, in the middle of the night, by saying, "How about it? We could drive to Vegas and be back in time for studio." I didn't think he was serious and didn't think twice about rejecting him (I was 18 at the time). Later I came to find out that he considered it a real proposal and was hurt that I'd said no!
i got my girlfriend out of bed (already in her pjs) at about 10pm and talked her into going for a bike ride. she knew it was real.
The first time my husband proposed, it didn't count either. The second time it did, an oddly romantic story... Twas Saturday morning, I had just gotten the mail and was flipping thru the junk and came across an ad for a jewelry store. I had my back to him and as I was picking up the ad to take it to the trash I murmerred something like "We're never gonna get married" cause we'd been talking about it for months, but nothing was happening and the ad was a sad reminder for me. I turned around with ad in hand, AND WHOA my man was down on his knee HOLDING THE RING. There in our dining room. Saturday morning. How the hell did he have that on him? Why did he pick that moment? You bet I was surprised.
yes i am waiting for that proposal too!
that's adorable strawbeary.
you really think it's adorable or are you kidding?
i would be interested to know how many marriages which stem from the "superproposal" actually last. you know the kind where the proposal is done on the big screen at the stadium or in a packed restaraunt? first the proposee really can't say no or they would embarass their s.o. in such a way that the guy would never recover. so rather than saying "well honey i have to think about it, don't you think you should have a job first etc..." they agree and its all down hill from there. i think anyway...
i do think IT IS ADORABLE due to his impeccable timing, and that is a great story. how did he do that?
bill's gotta say yes after that.
vado- I'd always wondered about that. How many women say 'yes' on the spot and then, 'I'll think about it' when they get home?
vado, I've always wondered about that, too.
As for me... I don't know how you guys do it, I'm the type who would wonder for years about it if I didn't get a clear proposal. Last bf did the thing rationalist's did twice--each time I said, "what are you talking about, I'll believe you when you have a RING" and then the 3rd time he poked a hole through a complimentary piece of restaurant bread and stuck it on my finger. I found out later he thought those were "real", too. I found it slightly rude and symptomatic of immaturity, which was a confirmed suspicion a few months later when he cheated on me with an ex-crack whore (no joke). ANYHOW clearly you guys don't have similar experiences...
Am I the only girl here who would be insulted and concerned if my bf told me *I* had to ask *him* to marry me?? I guess I'm kind of old-school. I kind of want someone to make a big fuss out of me if he is making such a big decision concerning his life with me. Otherwise I'm the type that would worry over whether he had really wanted to do it or not.
My aunt dated my uncle for 4 years before they were married, and evidently he only finally asked her to marry him because his mom kept asking him what was going on. My aunt told me recently that every time they hit a rough spot over the years she couldn't help but think "maybe he only married me in the first place because his mom wanted him to, and he never really wanted to himself..." I couldn't deal with that kind of worry.
yeah, i can understand you myriam. at first i was surprised by my brother saying such a thing to his girlfriend. i knew i wanted to make a big deal about me asking my now wife in a rather private way. it was sans ring though.
I hear ya too, myriam. And you comfort me- when I found out that was a 'real' proposal, I couldn't help but think, "But what if that's it? That's was my only chance? Ever? And I didn't even think it was REAL?!" So it's good to know that life goes on after one of those relationships (though it's not over yet, the knowledge that it will be knaws at me inside). I can't help but think that I've spelled 'knaw' wrong there, it just looks horrible.
I don't mind the idea of a ring-free proposal, because what if you hate the ring he picks out? Just as long as there is something to let you know that it is real. Down on one knee, something to make it serious, formal-ish, so that you know for sure it's not just bed talk. Oh yeah, that's what made 'the proposal' even worse, we were in bed at the time. Who believes a proposal in bed? I'd feel like a fool for counting on a proposal made in bed.
I carefully selected the word "heartfelt" regarding proposals, as I too tend to think the big-deal skywriting/jumbotron/cheerleaders proposals are more about the event of asking than the desire to share one's life with someone.
Doesn't need to be a big production, it just needs to be honest. A cousin proposed by holding the ring right in front of her face and gently waking her up because he knew it was the only way he could surprise her - a big dinner out, boat ride, whatever would have been suspicious. I think that's wonderfully romantic.
We can't be too rough on my man, he DID hand-carve my engagement ring (after I told him I thought it was time I had one!).
oh yeah lb i hear ya. i dont consider the proposal i described as heartfelt. it should be a personal moment between two people who are in love and want to suffer together for eternity...
now fooling around in a bed after the proposal is alright with me, and should be manditory.
lb, no roughness at all directed towards your man. afterall, he is your man and we all know how great you are. just trying to look out for you and your big ten-o.
Rationalist, I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said. I don't really care about the ring either--I want to design my own anyway (insert legitimate ring thread reference here)--but I guess I just needed something to prove it was legitimate. I honestly do find that kind of thing to be a symptom of emotional immaturity, and my current relationship (as well as the aforementioned demise of my last) has SERIOUSLY borne that feeling out. I mean if it were a serious guy who was serious about the question, then I wouldn't have felt the need to make a point about the lack of a ring. Y'know? Also, yeah, one of his was in bed--I totally agree about that.
And libertybell--that cousin's proposal is awesome. I would LOVE that. Kudos to the man.
So wait, rationalist--is it not working out so hot? Is this all about the eucalyptus, after all? ;)
lb, your man gets a get out of jail free card--he sounds like he's got his own thing going on that you love, and that's awesome. no problem there. :)
Also I feel the need to confess that during my perusal and response of this thread, I called my boyfriend for a little stuck-at-work-pick-me-up, and what did he casually tell me? He took a self-portrait I drew for him in to get framed today. That's the first time anyone's ever had something that I created framed. Framing is expensive. He even got the UV-blocking glass. I can't believe he actually went and quietly had that done.
awwwwww.
No, it's most definitely not about the eucalyptus. It's about his stay-at-home, family oriented, unambitious nature vs. my independent, wandering, overachieving nature. To put it in perspective, this is the same guy I've been complaining to abra about for over a year now.
yeah lb, how many ladies can say that their man carved them an engagement ring?
and points to your man too myriam. i always say, it's the little things that mean the most in life.
myriam your man sounds like a keeper.
vado I hope your girl knows she's got a keeper too, even transatlantically.
Yeah, I hope I'm not letting myself get too excited about him, though. You never know what it's gonna be like when we're actually living in the same town. I get worried sometimes.
can the asphalt shingle be 2.5" to 12" roof slope?
i got married and divorced long time ago. we stayed married 5 yrs. she was an architect too. was no big deal. i don't remember how it happened proposition wise. it just happened. ceromony was in a nice restaurant where her father feed us and about 100 of our friends to veal chops.we couldn't go back to our flea infested apartment and spent the night in shangri la hotel not too far from our place. next morning we went home and set some flea bombs and took of for new york, the first stop of our honeymoon and from there took of for maine in a rent a car. we went to isle a hout in maine an dropped acid.
it was great. upon our return the fleas were dead and shortly after that we rented the front portion of morphosis office building which was a small corrogated bldn'g with us in the front morphosis people in the middle and painter andre miripolsky in the back.
i just think this whole ceromonial proposition deal is little too much. i mean... how can you promise your life and stuff? how can you promise the unknown. so, i would still get married but make no big deal about it. which we are ok with it. tina was married before too. no pressure here.
hey please do not forget my asphalt shingle question on top. thanks in advance.
I imagine vado's lady knows by now that vado is highly unique. Well, if it were actually possible to modify "unique"...
rationalist>
it's spelled "gnaw".
aha! I knew it was wrong, it looked so bad, I just couldn't for the life of me come up with the right spelling.
Also, not to be Debbie Downer, but these conversations give me a scratchy feeling in the pit of my stomach. I am at the other end of the spectrum and am terrible at dating. I also have a lot of opinions and find that I am becoming more and more uncompromising. Imagine my surprise when I found the guy that I am seeing now, who is great and who I have a ton in common with, then have another guy come after me so I blow off #1, only to find that #2 is immature and doesn't have a lot to offer, so I go back to #1 and am still hoping that he can get past my mistake. I am great at making mistakes, BTW.
Essentially, I feel as if I will never get proposed to. Because let's face it girls, every woman wants a proposal. Doesn't matter how or when or where, just that it happens. I think lb made an excellent point in that, I have so many goals and I just feel like if I could have a buddy to move ahead with, I could get so much accomplished. All i really want is a man, a house and a dog. But I can't afford a house without a man and I can't get a dog without a house. You see my conundrum.
~~~
Orhan I could be wrong but I thought the minimum roof slope on an asphalt shingle roof had to be 4:12. Don't quote me on that.
Here's my plan: Universal Studios when Jaws pops out of the water. I can promise (I'm sure Myriam could vouch in some manner) that the right woman for me would totally appreciate it. If you knew me it would make complete sense.
I believe min roof slope is 1/4" per foot. I don't imagine there would be a maximum, or mansard roof builders are in trouble.
"I believe" = "99.99999% sure but now horribly afraid that I'm remembering something incorrectly."
Pixel, that proposal would be PERFECT for your future lady! I think anyone who knew you would get a kick out of that.
And wonderk, I'm sorry. Let's all stop talking about this nonsense. Back to the holy business of architecture. I can bitch about my contractor some more... oh and don't worry, we ALL suck at dating. I really dont' know how any of this EVER works out. I guess maybe one day it just doesn't stop being fun.
i love thread central
in honor of the fallen
yeah, wonderk, don't sweat it, I'm way worse at the dating game.
myriam: pizza tomorrow?
Gino's, Pixelwhore. if tomorrow night is in Chicago, pizza at Ginos.
Chicago is in November, weekend of the 11th I think. Tomorrow is Boston/Cambridge like most days.
Funny non-dating story:
A friend picked up the ringing phone early this morning to hear:
"WERE YOU OVER TA DOOOOUG'S HOUSE LASS NIGHT?!" in a southern female's voice.
Friend said, "...hello?"
"WELL? WERE YOU OVER TA DOOOUG'S HOUSE??"
"...I think you've got the wrong number..."
*click*
dude, pixel, i'll still be there then!!! we can bust up chicago!!!!
Asphalt roofing shingles cannot be successfully installed on each and every roof. These products depend heavily on gravity to keep water from entering your house. As the slope or pitch of a roof increases (gets steeper), gravity can pull the water off of your roof faster. Thus, the steeper your roof, generally, the better asphalt shingles perform.
Roof slope is commonly called out as the amount of vertical rise per amount of horizontal run. By convention, the amount of horizontal run is commonly called out as 12 inches. A common roof slope (pitch) used in many ranch houses is 4 inches of vertical rise for every 12 inches of horizontal run. This is called out as a 4/12 pitch roof.
Asphalt shingles can be applied on roofs with a slope (pitch) as low as 4/12 and as high as 21/12 using standard installation practices. Low slope roofs between 2/12 and 4/12 require special application methods, as do roofs that exceed 21/12 pitch.
myriam: get a bike, as its a Sadie Hawkin's race...
orhan, you can go lower, but do you want to? It's 4:12.
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