Liberty - Even on steep hills? I'm always concerned about burning up my brakes when trying to stop at the bottom and that's why I throw into the lower gear. Thanks for the advise. I'll definitely give it a try next time though.
I'm cracking up... even in the middle of labor Sarah still found a moment to post. Now that's dedication ;o)
Thanks for the clarification, treekiller! tuna I think downshifting to slow your car down, especially on a hill, is smarter than using brakes, so yes, go into the lower gears to stop.
I had a great coffee with a local architect today and I'm feeling hopeful about the profession. Also, got another call for another job, going to look at it Friday. I know the economy is slow but we, so far, are busy! (knock knock)
Sarah is the most dedicated 'necter of all, post count be damned! No one can touch her. Send good vibes to her, everyone!
lb- brake pads are cheaper then a new clutch, so downshifting doesn't really 'save' but it is more fun! But downshifting is a good way to be rear ended since you don't get brake lights flashing like when you step on th brakes...
my shopping mall finally got hung out to dry for the time being, so it's 107 stories all day for the next few weeks.
Downshifting to slow down ("engine braking" in trucker lingo) is good for maintaining a slow and steady speed down a long grade, such as coming down off a mountain pass while transporting a heavy load. It's pretty common practice on interstate highways thought mountainous regions, as it allows the engine to slow the truck down without burning up the brakes or risking a catastrophic loss of air pressure, which causes the brakes to fail, resulting in a runaway truck situation.
Cars don't have air brakes, though, so this is less of a concern for most people.... And too drastic of a downshift might cause your engine to explode.
On hilly streets in urban areas, it's best just to use the brakes as usual. As mentioned above, engine braking won't activate your brake lights, and it won't make any difference in how much traction you have.
For driving in icy conditions, it's best to go slow and make all your moves, especially steering and braking, very gradually. Sudden turns or slamming on the brakes will cause you to go into a skid or a spin which is almost impossible to recover from.
Luckily, most of shitty winter weather driving has taken place in Chicago's pancake-flat geography, although I've had some fun times in Philadelphia and in the Oregon Cascades. I can't imagine trying to navigate some of those hills in Cincinnati with a thick layer of snow or ice on the ground.
I'll heed everyone's advise in mind the next time crappy weather comes my way. I'm normally very cautious in the snow, as I used to have rear wheel drive, but I still haven't figured out the hill thing. Perhaps next time I'll take the other hill that is curved and banked okay and just pray I don't slide off the side.
That's great to hear you have a potential new client LB. You'll have to let us know how it all goes.
as LiG stated, engine braking is best controlling speed on long mountainous downgrades. this isn't Manyunk or San Fransisco, or Pittsburg size hills, but places like the Grapevine or i-85 west of denver... long, long, long downgrades that drop many hundreds to thousands of feet. then clutching once at the top is much less wearing then constantly riding your brakes...
During my moves to/from Oregon in 2004/2005, one of the highlights was navigating the infamous Cabbage Hill Grade on I-84 as it came down out of the Blue Mountains. Cabbage Hill involves losing 2000 feet of elevation within a six-mile stretch of highway.
The construction of that highway grade is quite a sight to behold. The eastbound and westbound lanes of the highway follow different routes down the mountain, and are almost 2 miles apart from each other at some locations. The westbound lanes (descending) feature double 180-degree switchback curves, and the eastbound lanes (ascending) feature the sharpest curves in the entire interstate highway system, according to Wikipedia. There are a series of runaway truck ramps along the highway in case trucks lose their brakes.
Luckily, I had clear weather in both directions. This is what I could have faced:
Downshifting to slow down is more fun, and if you don't have ABS brakes is safer in icy/slippery conditions. I should have mentioned that tuna - if you have ABS, you want to just go ahead and brake steady and if the caar starts slipping it will sort itself out. At least that's what our XB does - it's actually pretty cool when it kicks in. But I perfere totally manual driving, so I use the shifter/clutch a lot.
vado you want to wiegh in why it's a bad idea? I can see the issue with someone behind you not seeing your brake lights, but I don't worry about it - if someone is on my tail, I always flash my brakes and slow down slowly anyway. And if it's *really* icy your brake lights won't matter becuase they'll slide into you anyway.
Conversations like this make me miss not only my car (a speedy little stick-shift VW GTI) but snow. That's very strange as I normally don't miss either of these things! But gosh it was fun to drive that thing in the snow....
I don't think it's very helpful to make a statement: "A is bad!" and then not explain why, especially about a safety issue. None of us want tunamelt to go sliding through stop signs, right?
OK, Urban Landscape Case Studies: it's actually a great class. We're covering a wide variety of topics, some of which I already know about because I've studied them myself (such as brownfield remediation and the [url= High]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Line_%28New_York_City%29]High Line[/url] project in Manhattan), and some of which are new to me, such as the city plan of Barcelona and how to design for water in a landscape (short answer: make a sponge!). It's being taught by a woman named Ying-Yu Hung, and she's clearly very knowledgeable on the topic. She works for a firm called SWA and several - well actually, all - of our guest lecturers have been coworkers of hers. Based on the projects they have presented, it seems like a truly awesome place to work. Beyond that, I can fax you a syllabus, lol?
I don't really know who Mark Rios is, so I don't know what it's like "since" he left. All I know is that there is an MLA program, and there are several very enthusiastic Chinese students enrolled in it currently. One of whom is our treasurer.
PS. Downshifting to slow down is fine. I used to do it all the time.
I was talking about downshifting rather than braking to slow down during normal conditions as it bad for your clutch. Although i do downshift rather than brake on curvy roads.
to avoid accidents in the winter whilst driving, forget down shifting or braking on wet roads, instead taken vacation to sunny climates like Florida, Jamaica or Montserrat. You are guaranteed not to have any accidents on icy roads until the full effects of the climate change are felt.
can i share one last annoying car comment? when i was just starting univ., the campus was reached through a very steep incline [maybe 35 or 40 degrees]. imagine dozens of 18 year olds with their old parents cars, trying to go up and down that thing... with a red light at the bottom. the funnest, most damaging thing to the car we discovered we could do, was to maintain the car steady on the downhill, while waiting for a green light, by putting it in reverse and accelerating. fun days!
And today my friend, in tune to you EK, came wearing a claddagh ring. Of course I played like I've seen them all my life and asked what happened. Forgetting which finger meant what etc etc. Of course she dolted on me telling me to look it up. Oops turns out she's now engaged.
On now for something completely different. I fly out after work today to meet my gf. And I know you are all wondering how when I don't have my passport. I got an emergency travel document for my passage. I really need to sort out my passport - I know, I know. I just have no time.
I watch Lucky number Slevin the other night, the Rabbi said; good luck is something most people only know they have when its gone, - so in tune I have realised that I had the time before - now I'm too f'ing busy.
thanks eK... glad you're enjoying the class. it seems like a fun thing for me too (to teach).
SWA is a nice firm with great employee policies and some strong designers based out of the bay area with lots of offices round the country. I'm trying to figure out if I met Ms. Ying-Yu Hung (and where she went to school).
aml - The hill I drive up and down everyday is 35 degrees. I love speeding up and down it, as it's and 1800' straight shot, so you can really pick up some speed. Thankfully the street I live on is halfway down the hill, as I worry about wearing down my brakes.
Atechno - So you're going to Hawaii as well? What fun. Safe travels.
35 percent is about the maximum safe engineered landform slope (think landfills and artificial mountains). 35 degrees is a 70% slope and twice as steep. Most double diamond ski trails max out this steep (and no wheeled vehicle, even a hummer, can easily traverse this slope).
most roads try to stay under 15%, interstate highways are less then 10%, railroads max at under 2%. so a 35% road is very, very steep!!!!
to calculate percent of slope, figure out how far on the horizontal it takes the road to gain one foot in elevation and then divide the two. 45% is a 1:1 slope and 100%. A 1 in 10 slope is 10%, or 5.7 degrees
1. Honokaa-Waipio Road (near Waipio, HI, maximum grade 45%)*
2. Canton Avenue (between Coast and Hampshire, Pittsburgh, PA, 37%)
3. 28th Street (between Gaffey and Peck, Los Angeles, CA, 33.3%)
4. Eldred Street (west of Avenue 48, Los Angeles, CA, 33%)
5. Baxter Street (between Alvarado and Allesandro, Los Angeles, CA, 32%)
5. Fargo Street (between Alvarado and Allesandro, Los Angeles, CA, 32%)
5. Maria Avenue (north of Chestnut, Spring Valley (near San Diego), CA, 32%)
8. Dornbush Street (between Bricelyn and Vidette, Pittsburgh, PA, 31.98%)
eldred street
* four wheel drive off road vehicles only
The website I posted earlier said it's a 35 degree slope. It must be wrong. It really is a steep hill though. I die just walking halfway up it, seriously.
Here's another link I found about the race that's run up it every year. THis one states it's graded at 5.8. My bad, it's only an 819' run too. If I think about I'll take a photo tonight and post it tomorrow.
I'm pretty shot too. I'm in that place where you don't really think it'll ever be acceptable to stop working for any decent length of time (you know, and hour or two).... it feels oppressive.
On a brighter note, on a whim I checked my frequent flier miles and found out that I could get a ticket to New York for spring break for free. So now I am seriously contemplating it. The one thing that makes me hesitate is that I haven't really travelled alone before, except for my visits to Seattle last year, and I'm wondering whether I won't just feel more lonely if I do. But then maybe it'll be great and I'll feel tons better. I don't know, but I'm going to keep thinking on it and see whether things settle one way or the other naturally.
TK....fascinating! Thanks. I love random - dare I say "weird" - sh*t like that :o)
Here's a shot of the second steepest street, Canton Av. in Pittsburgh:
And a quote from the people who live at the bottom:
"Part of the reason we put these big windows in is so we can watch the goofballs try to drive up the hill," she says. "I'm serious. ... I live for it."
the 'steep streets' is a good site, but that guy needs help expanding his list! i think i know a few i can feed him, but i'll have to verify their qualifications.
off to catch a plane to birmingham al this morning for a little client-sponsored precedent research. will be back tonight. exciting! as a local/regional firm, travel is not usually part of our thing.
rationalist, traveling on your own totally depends on your frame of mind, so you have to decide. but i have always LOVED it - possibly to the point of weirdness.
i can go a whole day - with very few verbal interactions, even - just looking/watching.
but then i've also traveled on my own and felt free to be chatty with everyone i encounter.
either way can be novel and feel like an adventure.
so...it's what you make of it.
new york is a great place to simply wander and look and indulge your whims. you certainly don't need to have someone else with whom to NEGOTIATE those whims!
Good luck, hopefully after rehab you shoulder will make you feel like a new man. maybe even bionic?
Rationalist.
I personally have not traveled on my own much recently. Been to poor. However, i love doing so. It really allows you to explore a place and sense it..I generally find being on my own, even in my hometown very stimulating often more so than being around people.
Not that i am a loaner. I am very social, but have always needed me time....
Thread Central
tuna - I gots loads of photos, but I am slow in putting them up for some reason. But in the mean see the blog of development
Liberty - Even on steep hills? I'm always concerned about burning up my brakes when trying to stop at the bottom and that's why I throw into the lower gear. Thanks for the advise. I'll definitely give it a try next time though.
I'm cracking up... even in the middle of labor Sarah still found a moment to post. Now that's dedication ;o)
Thanks for the clarification, treekiller! tuna I think downshifting to slow your car down, especially on a hill, is smarter than using brakes, so yes, go into the lower gears to stop.
I had a great coffee with a local architect today and I'm feeling hopeful about the profession. Also, got another call for another job, going to look at it Friday. I know the economy is slow but we, so far, are busy! (knock knock)
Sarah is the most dedicated 'necter of all, post count be damned! No one can touch her. Send good vibes to her, everyone!
Someone want to finish this statement?
Everytime a 'necter baby is born...
..the number of people who (will) have a high level of appreciation for the built world rises.
lb- brake pads are cheaper then a new clutch, so downshifting doesn't really 'save' but it is more fun! But downshifting is a good way to be rear ended since you don't get brake lights flashing like when you step on th brakes...
my shopping mall finally got hung out to dry for the time being, so it's 107 stories all day for the next few weeks.
downshifting to slow down is not a good idea.
coffee with ONE GUY made you hopeful about the profession, lb?! i gotta meet this guy! i need hopefulness!
and it wasn't even me steven. imagine that!
Downshifting to slow down ("engine braking" in trucker lingo) is good for maintaining a slow and steady speed down a long grade, such as coming down off a mountain pass while transporting a heavy load. It's pretty common practice on interstate highways thought mountainous regions, as it allows the engine to slow the truck down without burning up the brakes or risking a catastrophic loss of air pressure, which causes the brakes to fail, resulting in a runaway truck situation.
Cars don't have air brakes, though, so this is less of a concern for most people.... And too drastic of a downshift might cause your engine to explode.
On hilly streets in urban areas, it's best just to use the brakes as usual. As mentioned above, engine braking won't activate your brake lights, and it won't make any difference in how much traction you have.
For driving in icy conditions, it's best to go slow and make all your moves, especially steering and braking, very gradually. Sudden turns or slamming on the brakes will cause you to go into a skid or a spin which is almost impossible to recover from.
Luckily, most of shitty winter weather driving has taken place in Chicago's pancake-flat geography, although I've had some fun times in Philadelphia and in the Oregon Cascades. I can't imagine trying to navigate some of those hills in Cincinnati with a thick layer of snow or ice on the ground.
I'll heed everyone's advise in mind the next time crappy weather comes my way. I'm normally very cautious in the snow, as I used to have rear wheel drive, but I still haven't figured out the hill thing. Perhaps next time I'll take the other hill that is curved and banked okay and just pray I don't slide off the side.
That's great to hear you have a potential new client LB. You'll have to let us know how it all goes.
as LiG stated, engine braking is best controlling speed on long mountainous downgrades. this isn't Manyunk or San Fransisco, or Pittsburg size hills, but places like the Grapevine or i-85 west of denver... long, long, long downgrades that drop many hundreds to thousands of feet. then clutching once at the top is much less wearing then constantly riding your brakes...
During my moves to/from Oregon in 2004/2005, one of the highlights was navigating the infamous Cabbage Hill Grade on I-84 as it came down out of the Blue Mountains. Cabbage Hill involves losing 2000 feet of elevation within a six-mile stretch of highway.
The construction of that highway grade is quite a sight to behold. The eastbound and westbound lanes of the highway follow different routes down the mountain, and are almost 2 miles apart from each other at some locations. The westbound lanes (descending) feature double 180-degree switchback curves, and the eastbound lanes (ascending) feature the sharpest curves in the entire interstate highway system, according to Wikipedia. There are a series of runaway truck ramps along the highway in case trucks lose their brakes.
Luckily, I had clear weather in both directions. This is what I could have faced:
^^That's a beautiful photo Gin.
Just discovered the hill I drive down and every morning to go to work has a sprint run on it almost every year for 30 years. I think I would die.
The conversation above has proved one thing to me:
I know nothing about cars. Absolutely nothing.
Downshifting to slow down is more fun, and if you don't have ABS brakes is safer in icy/slippery conditions. I should have mentioned that tuna - if you have ABS, you want to just go ahead and brake steady and if the caar starts slipping it will sort itself out. At least that's what our XB does - it's actually pretty cool when it kicks in. But I perfere totally manual driving, so I use the shifter/clutch a lot.
vado you want to wiegh in why it's a bad idea? I can see the issue with someone behind you not seeing your brake lights, but I don't worry about it - if someone is on my tail, I always flash my brakes and slow down slowly anyway. And if it's *really* icy your brake lights won't matter becuase they'll slide into you anyway.
Conversations like this make me miss not only my car (a speedy little stick-shift VW GTI) but snow. That's very strange as I normally don't miss either of these things! But gosh it was fun to drive that thing in the snow....
Emily,
I want to hear about your Urban Landscape Case Studies class!
who's teaching it?
No coffee with me either Vado...sigh!
lb i'll tell you about it over coffee sometime.
Did someone mention an Urban Landscape Case Studies class? Ooh, me too! Me too! I wanna hear about your class too, Emily!
I seriously need to get a life.
I don't think it's very helpful to make a statement: "A is bad!" and then not explain why, especially about a safety issue. None of us want tunamelt to go sliding through stop signs, right?
Em, I echo tk's question: who is teaching it? And how is the landscape department going since the departure of Mark Rios?
OK, Urban Landscape Case Studies: it's actually a great class. We're covering a wide variety of topics, some of which I already know about because I've studied them myself (such as brownfield remediation and the [url=
High]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Line_%28New_York_City%29]High Line[/url] project in Manhattan), and some of which are new to me, such as the city plan of Barcelona and how to design for water in a landscape (short answer: make a sponge!). It's being taught by a woman named Ying-Yu Hung, and she's clearly very knowledgeable on the topic. She works for a firm called SWA and several - well actually, all - of our guest lecturers have been coworkers of hers. Based on the projects they have presented, it seems like a truly awesome place to work. Beyond that, I can fax you a syllabus, lol?
I don't really know who Mark Rios is, so I don't know what it's like "since" he left. All I know is that there is an MLA program, and there are several very enthusiastic Chinese students enrolled in it currently. One of whom is our treasurer.
PS. Downshifting to slow down is fine. I used to do it all the time.
Crap! I'm sorry. I did it again. I hate those sneaky line-break linking issues.
The High Line: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Line_%28New_York_City%29
I was talking about downshifting rather than braking to slow down during normal conditions as it bad for your clutch. Although i do downshift rather than brake on curvy roads.
to avoid accidents in the winter whilst driving, forget down shifting or braking on wet roads, instead taken vacation to sunny climates like Florida, Jamaica or Montserrat. You are guaranteed not to have any accidents on icy roads until the full effects of the climate change are felt.
this has been a paid advertisement from Aflack
we now return you to regular programming
hi tc!
can i share one last annoying car comment? when i was just starting univ., the campus was reached through a very steep incline [maybe 35 or 40 degrees]. imagine dozens of 18 year olds with their old parents cars, trying to go up and down that thing... with a red light at the bottom. the funnest, most damaging thing to the car we discovered we could do, was to maintain the car steady on the downhill, while waiting for a green light, by putting it in reverse and accelerating. fun days!
ps. not that the comments were annoying, but i got a 'let's change the topic already' vibe there at the end...
EK - I think the Mark Rios is from Rios Clementi Hale
And today my friend, in tune to you EK, came wearing a claddagh ring. Of course I played like I've seen them all my life and asked what happened. Forgetting which finger meant what etc etc. Of course she dolted on me telling me to look it up. Oops turns out she's now engaged.
On now for something completely different. I fly out after work today to meet my gf. And I know you are all wondering how when I don't have my passport. I got an emergency travel document for my passage. I really need to sort out my passport - I know, I know. I just have no time.
I watch Lucky number Slevin the other night, the Rabbi said; good luck is something most people only know they have when its gone, - so in tune I have realised that I had the time before - now I'm too f'ing busy.
but like Sarah not too busy for Archinect
thanks eK... glad you're enjoying the class. it seems like a fun thing for me too (to teach).
SWA is a nice firm with great employee policies and some strong designers based out of the bay area with lots of offices round the country. I'm trying to figure out if I met Ms. Ying-Yu Hung (and where she went to school).
aml - The hill I drive up and down everyday is 35 degrees. I love speeding up and down it, as it's and 1800' straight shot, so you can really pick up some speed. Thankfully the street I live on is halfway down the hill, as I worry about wearing down my brakes.
Atechno - So you're going to Hawaii as well? What fun. Safe travels.
hi aml :)
the proper way to DrIvE in hilly urban areas...
last comment on subject...
tuna - naw just heading to Antigua
Gin - before I forget I'm sending good vibes to you for your surgery tomorrow (it is tomorrow,, right?). Hope you have a speedy recovery.
Tuna - 35 degrees or 35 percent?
eldred street
35 percent is about the maximum safe engineered landform slope (think landfills and artificial mountains). 35 degrees is a 70% slope and twice as steep. Most double diamond ski trails max out this steep (and no wheeled vehicle, even a hummer, can easily traverse this slope).
most roads try to stay under 15%, interstate highways are less then 10%, railroads max at under 2%. so a 35% road is very, very steep!!!!
to calculate percent of slope, figure out how far on the horizontal it takes the road to gain one foot in elevation and then divide the two. 45% is a 1:1 slope and 100%. A 1 in 10 slope is 10%, or 5.7 degrees
the steepest streets in the US:
1. Honokaa-Waipio Road (near Waipio, HI, maximum grade 45%)*
2. Canton Avenue (between Coast and Hampshire, Pittsburgh, PA, 37%)
3. 28th Street (between Gaffey and Peck, Los Angeles, CA, 33.3%)
4. Eldred Street (west of Avenue 48, Los Angeles, CA, 33%)
5. Baxter Street (between Alvarado and Allesandro, Los Angeles, CA, 32%)
5. Fargo Street (between Alvarado and Allesandro, Los Angeles, CA, 32%)
5. Maria Avenue (north of Chestnut, Spring Valley (near San Diego), CA, 32%)
8. Dornbush Street (between Bricelyn and Vidette, Pittsburgh, PA, 31.98%)
* four wheel drive off road vehicles only
The website I posted earlier said it's a 35 degree slope. It must be wrong. It really is a steep hill though. I die just walking halfway up it, seriously.
Here's another link I found about the race that's run up it every year. THis one states it's graded at 5.8. My bad, it's only an 819' run too. If I think about I'll take a photo tonight and post it tomorrow.
I obviously can't read today. The length of the street is, in fact, over 1800'. Is it Friday yet?
Bullitt people don't even wear seatbelts.
thanks tk that's a great site.
I prefer the chase in the french connection. better crashes!
treekiller, you are a never-ending supply of interesting and factual informaiton. Thank you for always being so generous.
Three 14 hour days in a row and I'm shot. But thank goodness Sarah checked in that the baby is fine - I had been worrying about them. Goodnight all.
I'm pretty shot too. I'm in that place where you don't really think it'll ever be acceptable to stop working for any decent length of time (you know, and hour or two).... it feels oppressive.
On a brighter note, on a whim I checked my frequent flier miles and found out that I could get a ticket to New York for spring break for free. So now I am seriously contemplating it. The one thing that makes me hesitate is that I haven't really travelled alone before, except for my visits to Seattle last year, and I'm wondering whether I won't just feel more lonely if I do. But then maybe it'll be great and I'll feel tons better. I don't know, but I'm going to keep thinking on it and see whether things settle one way or the other naturally.
TK....fascinating! Thanks. I love random - dare I say "weird" - sh*t like that :o)
Here's a shot of the second steepest street, Canton Av. in Pittsburgh:
And a quote from the people who live at the bottom:
"Part of the reason we put these big windows in is so we can watch the goofballs try to drive up the hill," she says. "I'm serious. ... I live for it."
On my way to the hospital to have my bum shoulder chopped to pieces by a surgeon... Wish me luck!
the 'steep streets' is a good site, but that guy needs help expanding his list! i think i know a few i can feed him, but i'll have to verify their qualifications.
off to catch a plane to birmingham al this morning for a little client-sponsored precedent research. will be back tonight. exciting! as a local/regional firm, travel is not usually part of our thing.
rationalist, traveling on your own totally depends on your frame of mind, so you have to decide. but i have always LOVED it - possibly to the point of weirdness.
i can go a whole day - with very few verbal interactions, even - just looking/watching.
but then i've also traveled on my own and felt free to be chatty with everyone i encounter.
either way can be novel and feel like an adventure.
so...it's what you make of it.
new york is a great place to simply wander and look and indulge your whims. you certainly don't need to have someone else with whom to NEGOTIATE those whims!
congrats to sarah!
I heart travelling alone actually. You don't have to compromise on any of the places you want to go/see.
TK - ditto both Liberty and DubK's sentiments. Learning "weird sh*t" rocks.
friday already?...i'm still alive
Uggghh the end of Today couldn't come faster...
My back has been killing me all week.
LIG.
Good luck, hopefully after rehab you shoulder will make you feel like a new man. maybe even bionic?
Rationalist.
I personally have not traveled on my own much recently. Been to poor. However, i love doing so. It really allows you to explore a place and sense it..I generally find being on my own, even in my hometown very stimulating often more so than being around people.
Not that i am a loaner. I am very social, but have always needed me time....
i prefer Crash to the French Connection and Bullitt, better crashes and kinky sex, especially with Ms. Arquette...
the french connection car chase is great. i also like the two car chases in ronin, particularly the 2nd one through the streets of paris.
besides, you get robert "if you don't need me, i'm going to pass out" deniro.
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