barry, that's all good to hear :) If a client has pre-conceived notions, they'd better also have good communication skills! I think designing a logo is much like designing a house in terms of the clients investment in it and the feelings it churns up. Also, the plans-to-reality jump is quite like the sketch-to-vector jump: the client doesn't necessarily have the visualization skills for them not to be surprised by the result. Tough stuff sometimes.
I need a nap - I had a 7am meeting this morning and I have an 8pm meeting tonight - I'm not going to make it much longer. it's only tuesday - this is going to be a long week.
Just finished my manifesto to fix the Gulf and end our addiction to oil... maybe I can get some funding to implement some of the ideas (then I can hire all the unemployed archinecteurs:-)
Hi copper I can understand your difficulties. I remember trying to be the middle man to help get the logo for the development corporation in Monty - their desire to be a model company, first rate and polished but in the end they chose a logo that looked like 95% of the things around - a map of the island and letters- can we say amateur hour? All of this to say that in the end I wished I can recorded explicitly the decisions they had made along the way... even if to stuff it in their faces.
And I'm reading that archinect is going to party in Miami? Hmmm that's only 90 minutes flying time. Anyone from TC going? Nam??
copper - Isn't their inability to communicate their design sensibilities, a design problem in a way? I'm sure you've tried, but how about giving them the tools to communicate, like a limited palette? Or something interactive?
Sorry, being back in design, I'm grateful for even opportunities of having design problems. I got too used to engineer-y problems. Now I get a little too gung-ho with this stuff.
Awesome Barry. I'll have a more in-depth read later. Not that I'm going to have anything good to say after reading it.
And, uh, how is that Yellow thread still going? It clearly violates many of the discussion policies. Tried emailing already. I don't expect it to be shut down just because I asked for a review, but thats all I ask. A review of it and a response, even if to just say "it doesn't go against any of the policies". These days, I've learned to be fine with people not doing what I want or expect, just that they consider it.
archi, maybe. i just read the announcement myself. and the timing isn't good workwise..
It's probably going to be another overtime weekend.
Also, i am psyched! I spent the evening working on the record cabinet/bench i am building with a friend. It is our 2nd time working on it. We are looking great. I will share photos when done.
slart, designing interactive tools in order to help someone get over their inexplicable inability to use words is most definitely not in contract. They're already getting a heck of a friends-and-family special on this, and I wouldn't have given it if I'd known how they would turn out to be.
Got ya. Like I said, I'm in a weird, nerdy, gung-ho mood these days. Earlier today, I was really excited about a sill detail. Not even joking. You can always offer as an additional service though, even if they end up saying no. Or maybe not if you think they'll just do that thing where you kind of end up doing it and they kind of don't pay you for it, because they kind of don't say no or yes. Lets all avoid that scenario.
That NCARB fee increase thread is making me think about what "good" business practice really is.
I just came from a meeting at my favorite contractor's office. He's about to go give a talk to a remodeling industry group in NYC, so he was looking online last night at some NY/NJ contractor's websites to get a sense of the local community. Lo and behold, he stumbled upon a website for a guy in NYC that was entirely using images from HIS OWN (my friend here in Indy's) website!! This NY contractor had stolen all his images and posted him as his own work! So my friend got this guy on the phone and watched online while the stolen images were all taken down.
I told him to report the guy to the two industry trade groups they both belong to, but he said he wasn't feeling that vindictive. I would have.
Mean people suck. Theft sucks. People who can't get by on their own talents and have to fuck others over along the way SUCK!
I definitely would've reported him, and felt good about doing it, not vindictive. I'd look at it as doing a public service—what happened when he got clients who expected a certain level of work that he couldn't deliver (cause if he could, he wouldn't have to use other people's images...)?
My fireplace is finally public. Projectione does amazing work and they document flawlessly and engagingly - so I have been waiting until they finished their web post on my project before sharing it. Artists should be allowed to control their message! But now you should go look at how awesome it is (and see darling shots of my dog and child as well as a fairly dorky one of me in my apron.)
holz, the one time we tried it it didn't draw, possibly because one of the flapper things above the flue (there are two) wasn't open due to snow/ice - I wasn't willing to go up on the roof to check. But I also have covered it during winter as it seems like it would pull more heat out of the house than the burning logs would provide. I had wanted to get a tiny woodstove to put in it - like a little Jotel stove that would look good from both sides - but that's low priority now that I have my lovely LED fire to glow!
That's fucking amazing!!! I think I now have 101 reasons to visit Indy. And I know you'll be the envy of everyone that steps in that house. Especially when you host those AIA shingdids you do.
i am so f'ing proud that one of my best f'ing friends in the entire f'ing world has one of the most f'ing cool fireplace installations in the f'ing universe. f f f f'ing awesome!
Donna, congratulations! What a stunning fireplace! They put a lot of good work on it. I loved the video and the extensive description of the process. At a first look I tought they used some shells in different sizes, but it was fabricated. Great concet to finish!
you may be the only people in the world ever to have wrapped their non-functioning fireplace in electronics and mushroom sculptures. i think you're crazy, but i mean that in the most loving and admiring way.
donna
looks awesome...your house makes me want to be more dilligent in making my domiciles look more interesting and true to what i'm sposed to be about as an architect.
i spent a few hours on projectione's website last night... both inspring and depressing...depressing in that they're doing so much interesting stuff while i've been stuck looking at building codes for seemingly years that's entirely sapped away all the creativity and energy that i had at that age. if only i had a cnc... so many uses for that thing. and their proximal stuff is pretty awesome as well...all around seem to be a good group of smart kids.
Sarah that couch used to be in our TV room and it was comfortable enough for a movie - though throw pillows help. It's very loungey.
I like the purple being just on the "object". The fireplace is funny in that it used to have a built in shelf unit that the previous owners removed and turned into this really dumb cased opening. So we had to fur out one side then clad the brick in something to make it look right. The way the soffit is only on one side made going to the ceiling with the cladding more challenging. So we decided (Projectione proposed and I agreed) just stopping the intervention/object at the soffit line and leaving a reveal. I considered parging the top 8" of brick to make it look like painted drywall, but decided I like material honesty better...plus i have a soft spot for the DIY/painted brick loft idea from the radical 60s.
lars, I think seeing awesome work often IS both invigorating and depressing! I remember the first time I saw Villa Savoye in freshman Intro to Architecture thinking "Well why does anyone even bother to design a house ever again when one that perfect has already been done?!"
i agree... i often feel like leaving the moma whenever i go after a short period of time because i feel like going home and painting... more because i feel inspired to paint something and create and make my something to the best of my own ability in my own style. i guess that's my answer to the villa savoye idea... we may not create the next villa savoye and probably won't, but doesn't mean we can't try to at least leave our own creative mark.
i've just been uninspired lately at my job and sometimes it's hard to create your own inspiration after you go home. i guess i'm just feeling ready to do something after a year or so of feeling as though i've done nothing.
furr is spelled that way i believe when you're talking about furring out something.
"Furring is also a term used for a type of ship repair. When a ship cannot bear sail or is too narrow or her bearing laid too low, a second layer of frames are attached to the first to make her broader and lay her bearing higher. This is done by ripping the planks off and applying the second frames on top of the original frames, and then adding the planks back on. "They commonly fur some two or three strakes under water and as much above, according as the ship requires, more or less." (Mainwaring, 153) Although this appeared to have fixed the problems with 'makeshift corrections' due to miscalculating the tonnage of the vessel, it was seen as a poor remedy and at times was used as a black listing method among shipwrights during the end of the 16th century and beginning of the 17th century England.
Because it was seen as such an incompetent occurrence to miscalculate while building, even the writers of the time had plenty to say about its uncertainties: “I think in all the world there are not so many ships furred as are in England, and it is a pity that there is no order taken either for the punishing of those who build such ships or the preventing of it, for it is an infinite loss to the owners and an utter spoiling and disgrace to all ships that are so handled (Mainwaring, 153)”
From wikipedia!
I copied it because I didn't know how to explain it... but you refer to them as furs.
It's kind of humorous that there's more in common with shipbuilding and modern home construction than there is between home construction then and now!
Unicorn, this is one of the few places on the net where one would find people genuinely interested in the history and etymology of furring!
lars are you not finding time/energy to paint lately? It's hard, really really hard, to pursue creative ventures outside of a regular job. I guess that's why I paid someone to do it for me - I've become a patron!
donna,
i've been painting sporadically... the thing is is that currently i work 20 hours a week at work.. but the work is really mind numbing in the way that looking at the building code, filing for approvals from seven different agencies and working on a project that takes longer to go through the process of filing than actual drawing and almost construction is mind numbing.. all for a project that in the end probably won't make my portfolio... it is a project that is totally different than everything i've ever done and pretty much anyone at the DOB which is what makes it so epically frustrating.
that and going through a breakup for the past few months all add up to me not feeling like painting... does this make sense? plenty of time, but i just don't feel like picking up a brush...although every time i do i realize how much i miss it. i just finished a painting last night actually. http://www.flickr.com/photos/larslarson/4688527112/
the past few weeks though i've been trying to do some carpentry, work on some furniture and make some paintings and frames and such... i just now need to also find a place to sell them.
also.. there's a ton of places that refer to furr-out on the web.. which i think would be as accurate as wikipedia... i've never heard furring referred to as 'furs'. i'd believe furring or blocking or lathe or anything else pretty much before 'furs'.
so I'm about to use one of those other architectural skills - problem solving/ plumbing. My sink has been clogged so I created a vacuum and plunged the hell out of it. Now it's worse so I'm going to disconnect the P-trap and clear the line. Hopefully I can finish before I need to wash my hands. Also fixing the running toilet whilst i'm at it.
"also.. there's a ton of places that refer to furr-out on the web.. which i think would be as accurate as wikipedia... i've never heard furring referred to as 'furs'. i'd believe furring or blocking or lathe or anything else pretty much before 'furs'."
They'd all be wrong!
The word furring comes from the anglo-french word "fuerre" or "furrer" which means to stuff or line or form a sheath.
The base world is obviously "fur-" and like any anglo-french/old english word (thanks annoying french conjugation!) you'd add appropriate endings to make a verb/noun/intransitive verb/adverb.
If we were attribute to other french words of muddled German origin, the correct word would technically be "furrings" or as an irregular noun as "furring."
As in "Hand me more furring," or "Furring that furring to the wall."
In any case, the word "firs" is used historically to refer to the wood (planks) of non-resinous pine trees. But the used of "firs" predates "furring" by 3 centuries.
techno, you might try using an unfurled wire hanger as a snake in the drain before you go through the trouble of taking it apart... i did that a few months ago with a stubborn clogged drain and successfully pulled out a big, nasty ball of hair...
toilet is fixed. Clogged sink is clear. Better than super mario bros.
So turns out I'll be teaching semester 3 (summer) studio with my namesake, mentor, and principal of the firm I do my registration hours (think IDP). I am humbled. Spoke with the head of school regarding the project so between now and Monday I have to determine the site and write a brief. Fun stuff.
I have a baby zucchini! My plants are only a foot tall, so I was worried, but yay!!! My tomatoes are tiny too. Maybe I just have pigmy plants, everything is coming out fun-size. Oh well. My okra looks to be normal, though.
Thread Central
barry, that's all good to hear :) If a client has pre-conceived notions, they'd better also have good communication skills! I think designing a logo is much like designing a house in terms of the clients investment in it and the feelings it churns up. Also, the plans-to-reality jump is quite like the sketch-to-vector jump: the client doesn't necessarily have the visualization skills for them not to be surprised by the result. Tough stuff sometimes.
I need a nap - I had a 7am meeting this morning and I have an 8pm meeting tonight - I'm not going to make it much longer. it's only tuesday - this is going to be a long week.
Just finished my manifesto to fix the Gulf and end our addiction to oil... maybe I can get some funding to implement some of the ideas (then I can hire all the unemployed archinecteurs:-)
Hi copper I can understand your difficulties. I remember trying to be the middle man to help get the logo for the development corporation in Monty - their desire to be a model company, first rate and polished but in the end they chose a logo that looked like 95% of the things around - a map of the island and letters- can we say amateur hour? All of this to say that in the end I wished I can recorded explicitly the decisions they had made along the way... even if to stuff it in their faces.
And I'm reading that archinect is going to party in Miami? Hmmm that's only 90 minutes flying time. Anyone from TC going? Nam??
copper - Isn't their inability to communicate their design sensibilities, a design problem in a way? I'm sure you've tried, but how about giving them the tools to communicate, like a limited palette? Or something interactive?
Sorry, being back in design, I'm grateful for even opportunities of having design problems. I got too used to engineer-y problems. Now I get a little too gung-ho with this stuff.
Awesome Barry. I'll have a more in-depth read later. Not that I'm going to have anything good to say after reading it.
And, uh, how is that Yellow thread still going? It clearly violates many of the discussion policies. Tried emailing already. I don't expect it to be shut down just because I asked for a review, but thats all I ask. A review of it and a response, even if to just say "it doesn't go against any of the policies". These days, I've learned to be fine with people not doing what I want or expect, just that they consider it.
archi, maybe. i just read the announcement myself. and the timing isn't good workwise..
It's probably going to be another overtime weekend.
Also, i am psyched! I spent the evening working on the record cabinet/bench i am building with a friend. It is our 2nd time working on it. We are looking great. I will share photos when done.
Nite all.
Ok, I still have to sand and stain and do some other small work but this is the basic frame.
slart, designing interactive tools in order to help someone get over their inexplicable inability to use words is most definitely not in contract. They're already getting a heck of a friends-and-family special on this, and I wouldn't have given it if I'd known how they would turn out to be.
Got ya. Like I said, I'm in a weird, nerdy, gung-ho mood these days. Earlier today, I was really excited about a sill detail. Not even joking. You can always offer as an additional service though, even if they end up saying no. Or maybe not if you think they'll just do that thing where you kind of end up doing it and they kind of don't pay you for it, because they kind of don't say no or yes. Lets all avoid that scenario.
That NCARB fee increase thread is making me think about what "good" business practice really is.
Nice cabinet/bench nam-
Is it for you or is it for your friend. You'll definitely have to post photos when the project is complete.
pretty good barry.
furniture looks good nam!
thanks guys it's for me (well really my couple of hundred LPs)
just got out of a meeting off to another!
Yep, nam, cabinet looks nice.
I just came from a meeting at my favorite contractor's office. He's about to go give a talk to a remodeling industry group in NYC, so he was looking online last night at some NY/NJ contractor's websites to get a sense of the local community. Lo and behold, he stumbled upon a website for a guy in NYC that was entirely using images from HIS OWN (my friend here in Indy's) website!! This NY contractor had stolen all his images and posted him as his own work! So my friend got this guy on the phone and watched online while the stolen images were all taken down.
I told him to report the guy to the two industry trade groups they both belong to, but he said he wasn't feeling that vindictive. I would have.
Mean people suck. Theft sucks. People who can't get by on their own talents and have to fuck others over along the way SUCK!
I definitely would've reported him, and felt good about doing it, not vindictive. I'd look at it as doing a public service—what happened when he got clients who expected a certain level of work that he couldn't deliver (cause if he could, he wouldn't have to use other people's images...)?
How are your groin muscles today?
My fireplace is finally public. Projectione does amazing work and they document flawlessly and engagingly - so I have been waiting until they finished their web post on my project before sharing it. Artists should be allowed to control their message! But now you should go look at how awesome it is (and see darling shots of my dog and child as well as a fairly dorky one of me in my apron.)
Donna - your fireplace brilliant and beautiful! The only other thing it needs is to be solar powered! Every mom (and dad) needs an apron.
donna,
pretty awesome.
any thoughts as to why the fireplace is rarely used? my guess would be too low and not sized properly
holz, the one time we tried it it didn't draw, possibly because one of the flapper things above the flue (there are two) wasn't open due to snow/ice - I wasn't willing to go up on the roof to check. But I also have covered it during winter as it seems like it would pull more heat out of the house than the burning logs would provide. I had wanted to get a tiny woodstove to put in it - like a little Jotel stove that would look good from both sides - but that's low priority now that I have my lovely LED fire to glow!
Holy shit Donna that is awesome!
I love the interactivity of the piece. Plus the lights just look so cool. And great video documentation.
to keep with the cursing praise.
That's fucking amazing!!! I think I now have 101 reasons to visit Indy. And I know you'll be the envy of everyone that steps in that house. Especially when you host those AIA shingdids you do.
that is some really nice stuff.
Turned out abso-fucking-lutely stunning Donna. I most certainly would be entertained for hours continually walking around that installation.
i am so f'ing proud that one of my best f'ing friends in the entire f'ing world has one of the most f'ing cool fireplace installations in the f'ing universe. f f f f'ing awesome!
very coolio fireplace. concept was yourn, or all from Projectione ?
All Projectione. I was, for the first time ever, solely a client. Being a client was a really good experience for me to have to go through!
Donna, congratulations! What a stunning fireplace! They put a lot of good work on it. I loved the video and the extensive description of the process. At a first look I tought they used some shells in different sizes, but it was fabricated. Great concet to finish!
Yes, Purpurina, the Projectione team did an amazing amount of work, both intellectually and physically. They are completely awesome.
you may be the only people in the world ever to have wrapped their non-functioning fireplace in electronics and mushroom sculptures. i think you're crazy, but i mean that in the most loving and admiring way.
That is really cool, Donna. I have two questions...
1. Is that couch comfy? It doesn't look like it would be, but it looks so cool.
2. Did you think of continuing the purple to the ceiling, and then across the left to the wall? If so, what was your reason for not doing it?
It all looks cool though. My house seems so traditional compared to yours.
donna
looks awesome...your house makes me want to be more dilligent in making my domiciles look more interesting and true to what i'm sposed to be about as an architect.
i spent a few hours on projectione's website last night... both inspring and depressing...depressing in that they're doing so much interesting stuff while i've been stuck looking at building codes for seemingly years that's entirely sapped away all the creativity and energy that i had at that age. if only i had a cnc... so many uses for that thing. and their proximal stuff is pretty awesome as well...all around seem to be a good group of smart kids.
correction: looks f'ing awesome
...Nothing better than mushrooms for a fireplace inspiration.
Sorry about the ^typos, p for concept and h for thought^
Sarah that couch used to be in our TV room and it was comfortable enough for a movie - though throw pillows help. It's very loungey.
I like the purple being just on the "object". The fireplace is funny in that it used to have a built in shelf unit that the previous owners removed and turned into this really dumb cased opening. So we had to fur out one side then clad the brick in something to make it look right. The way the soffit is only on one side made going to the ceiling with the cladding more challenging. So we decided (Projectione proposed and I agreed) just stopping the intervention/object at the soffit line and leaving a reveal. I considered parging the top 8" of brick to make it look like painted drywall, but decided I like material honesty better...plus i have a soft spot for the DIY/painted brick loft idea from the radical 60s.
lars, I think seeing awesome work often IS both invigorating and depressing! I remember the first time I saw Villa Savoye in freshman Intro to Architecture thinking "Well why does anyone even bother to design a house ever again when one that perfect has already been done?!"
Is furr spelled with two Rs (when referring to construction, not animals)?
Thank you. That explanation was wonderful. And I don't knowanything about spelling.
donna,
i agree... i often feel like leaving the moma whenever i go after a short period of time because i feel like going home and painting... more because i feel inspired to paint something and create and make my something to the best of my own ability in my own style. i guess that's my answer to the villa savoye idea... we may not create the next villa savoye and probably won't, but doesn't mean we can't try to at least leave our own creative mark.
i've just been uninspired lately at my job and sometimes it's hard to create your own inspiration after you go home. i guess i'm just feeling ready to do something after a year or so of feeling as though i've done nothing.
furr is spelled that way i believe when you're talking about furring out something.
Donna and Lars...
"Furring is also a term used for a type of ship repair. When a ship cannot bear sail or is too narrow or her bearing laid too low, a second layer of frames are attached to the first to make her broader and lay her bearing higher. This is done by ripping the planks off and applying the second frames on top of the original frames, and then adding the planks back on. "They commonly fur some two or three strakes under water and as much above, according as the ship requires, more or less." (Mainwaring, 153) Although this appeared to have fixed the problems with 'makeshift corrections' due to miscalculating the tonnage of the vessel, it was seen as a poor remedy and at times was used as a black listing method among shipwrights during the end of the 16th century and beginning of the 17th century England.
Because it was seen as such an incompetent occurrence to miscalculate while building, even the writers of the time had plenty to say about its uncertainties: “I think in all the world there are not so many ships furred as are in England, and it is a pity that there is no order taken either for the punishing of those who build such ships or the preventing of it, for it is an infinite loss to the owners and an utter spoiling and disgrace to all ships that are so handled (Mainwaring, 153)”
From wikipedia!
I copied it because I didn't know how to explain it... but you refer to them as furs.
It's kind of humorous that there's more in common with shipbuilding and modern home construction than there is between home construction then and now!
Unicorn, this is one of the few places on the net where one would find people genuinely interested in the history and etymology of furring!
lars are you not finding time/energy to paint lately? It's hard, really really hard, to pursue creative ventures outside of a regular job. I guess that's why I paid someone to do it for me - I've become a patron!
donna,
i've been painting sporadically... the thing is is that currently i work 20 hours a week at work.. but the work is really mind numbing in the way that looking at the building code, filing for approvals from seven different agencies and working on a project that takes longer to go through the process of filing than actual drawing and almost construction is mind numbing.. all for a project that in the end probably won't make my portfolio... it is a project that is totally different than everything i've ever done and pretty much anyone at the DOB which is what makes it so epically frustrating.
that and going through a breakup for the past few months all add up to me not feeling like painting... does this make sense? plenty of time, but i just don't feel like picking up a brush...although every time i do i realize how much i miss it. i just finished a painting last night actually.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/larslarson/4688527112/
the past few weeks though i've been trying to do some carpentry, work on some furniture and make some paintings and frames and such... i just now need to also find a place to sell them.
also.. there's a ton of places that refer to furr-out on the web.. which i think would be as accurate as wikipedia... i've never heard furring referred to as 'furs'. i'd believe furring or blocking or lathe or anything else pretty much before 'furs'.
we all need more patrons like you, donna!
so I'm about to use one of those other architectural skills - problem solving/ plumbing. My sink has been clogged so I created a vacuum and plunged the hell out of it. Now it's worse so I'm going to disconnect the P-trap and clear the line. Hopefully I can finish before I need to wash my hands. Also fixing the running toilet whilst i'm at it.
"also.. there's a ton of places that refer to furr-out on the web.. which i think would be as accurate as wikipedia... i've never heard furring referred to as 'furs'. i'd believe furring or blocking or lathe or anything else pretty much before 'furs'."
They'd all be wrong!
The word furring comes from the anglo-french word "fuerre" or "furrer" which means to stuff or line or form a sheath.
The base world is obviously "fur-" and like any anglo-french/old english word (thanks annoying french conjugation!) you'd add appropriate endings to make a verb/noun/intransitive verb/adverb.
If we were attribute to other french words of muddled German origin, the correct word would technically be "furrings" or as an irregular noun as "furring."
As in "Hand me more furring," or "Furring that furring to the wall."
In any case, the word "firs" is used historically to refer to the wood (planks) of non-resinous pine trees. But the used of "firs" predates "furring" by 3 centuries.
techno, you might try using an unfurled wire hanger as a snake in the drain before you go through the trouble of taking it apart... i did that a few months ago with a stubborn clogged drain and successfully pulled out a big, nasty ball of hair...
A big nasty ball of hair....
(Does FB allow hotlinking?)
toilet is fixed. Clogged sink is clear. Better than super mario bros.
So turns out I'll be teaching semester 3 (summer) studio with my namesake, mentor, and principal of the firm I do my registration hours (think IDP). I am humbled. Spoke with the head of school regarding the project so between now and Monday I have to determine the site and write a brief. Fun stuff.
hey, those are MY hairballs... did you steal the pic from FB and upload it elsewhere? or did you figure out how to link to FB?
I have a baby zucchini! My plants are only a foot tall, so I was worried, but yay!!! My tomatoes are tiny too. Maybe I just have pigmy plants, everything is coming out fun-size. Oh well. My okra looks to be normal, though.
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