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Hi nam!

My crisis is related getting my architecture license. If you're on my Google Buzz or you know my personal blog, it's posted there, and feel free to comment there. For the rest of you, or those too lazy to visit Google, here's the short form:

~~~~~
I have studied buildings formally for eight years of my life now. I have been in the field of building design for the last 13 years. It has always been a professional goal of mine to become a licensed architect.

But now, at this point in my life, I'm not so sure anymore.

There are several reasons why trying to take my exams this year (and probably next) seem like an attractive option: I just got out of grad school, this stuff is still fresh in my mind, I have the money to do it, it would be nice to put those letters on my business cards...

...er, IS it fresh in my mind? DO I have the money? And do I NEED those letters on my business cards?

Frankly, now I'm working for a company in which being a licensed architect is not necessarily value added. If this isn't necessarily value added, why would I bother putting myself through this right now? Maybe I'm wrong and maybe my boss will tell me they want that, and if so, I guess I could put out the money for it, but that's a lot of dough to dish out for something that I won't necessarily be using anytime soon. And maybe if they DO want it, they can help me pay for it, which would be nice and a motivator. I really like my job, and I feel fortunate to be with the company I am with, so I'm willing to go the extra mile for them.

Aside from all that, it is still a personal goal of mine, so I was pursuing it... until I started to feel like I was being ripped off. This red tape I have to wade through is a real de-motivator. Especially when I feel like, "what have all these groups done for me lately? The profession is dying, unemployment among architects may be 50% and they don't even have an aggressive stance on green building, and I'm supposed to want to be a part of this group? And pay out the wazoo for it? WHY?"

So yeah. Thoughts?

Feb 21, 10 6:27 pm  · 
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liberty bell
Frankly, now I'm working for a company in which being a licensed architect is not necessarily value added

For now, this is true, but you have a long professional career ahead of you, and if you are in any way involved with the building industry, either construction or maintenance, being an architect definitely has value.

Struggle through it, Em. It's a pain, but if you don't you'll spend your life wondering if you should have.


-----

All that said, along with all my thoughts on the thread about practicing w/o being licensed, I imagine in my lifetime architects will stop being licensed at all, and we'll go to some other designation like "building designer" or just stop regulating the built world at all. I've been trying to think of a parallel profession that has disappeared, like barrel-maker.

Feb 21, 10 7:59 pm  · 
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I won't dwell on this for too much longer, because I know that this topic has been beaten to death, but I went to school to study buildings. I love buildings. I like designing them, and revising them, and taking pictures of them, and critiquing them, and making them more energy efficient. Now that I'm studying for the ARE, I'm learning about things like warranty deeds, and contracts, and catchment areas. I don't care about any of that... I didn't go to school to study warranty deeds. I don't understand how architects went from being master builders to being hand-holders for owners and contractors. It all seems pointless to me right now.

So, that's where I'm at. I appreciate any opinions. I'm not even in the "I want to practice architecture but not get licensed" camp. I'm in the "I'm NOT practicing architecture so WHY get licensed" camp.

Back to the hockey game... Team USA just scored another goal against Canada! Wooo!

Feb 21, 10 9:35 pm  · 
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liberty bell

If it matters, Emily, I don't know what a warranty deed is - it never comes up in my practice. Contracts are something you should no about in any business. And catchment areas (water-related? Because I worked on a school where that term was used to define the area from which students were admitted) are something your engineer will figure out. The exams are hoops to jump through, and ensure that you have a passing familiarity with a bunch of terms and concepts that will come up in practice. If someone tossed "warranty deed" at me in a meeting, I'd just calmly asked them to clarify for me, and most likely would be familiar with it once I got a bit more explanation.

And I love buildings too, and while I think it's important for them to be energy efficient, I have absolutely zero interest in figuring out how to make them so. I'd rather hire a consultant to do that! Architecture is so broad-ranging. You can do whatever you want in it, but in any group of people discussing anything at all to do with buildings, you stating "I'm an architect" has weight.

Feb 21, 10 9:47 pm  · 
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WonderK

liberty bell, you are so wise.

Any guesses as to why that was post number 36502 but we're still on page 365?

Anybody else catch that hockey game?!?! USA! USA!

Also, ice dancing is funny. And I stand by my claims that sliding down a metal sled on a track of ice is less a sport than it is a death wish.

Aerials tomorrow night!

Feb 21, 10 10:54 pm  · 
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liberty bell

So wise that I use "no" when I mean "know", huh?

I'm a dork. But I want to see the smart, savvy people I know be registered architects, to raise up the whole IQ of the profession, and that includes you. We need you in the club.

Feb 21, 10 11:38 pm  · 
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Ms Beary

emily, get your license.

Feb 21, 10 11:45 pm  · 
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holz.box
we'll go to some other designation like "building designer"

lb - yer gonna make the folks @ CORA mad!

what is this club, and why am i not in it?

Feb 22, 10 1:24 am  · 
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separate from what the general public thinks of architects (which has been discussed ad nauseum around here), i find that - in a professional context - those with whom i come in contact expect me to be an ideas person and a facilitator, someone who can take things in hand and make them happen. that doesn't necessarily even have to do with buildings. and i don't mind being in that role.

and it's just because i got myself to a place where my card can say 'architect'. not too bad.

Feb 22, 10 7:29 am  · 
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quizzical

hi nam !

Feb 22, 10 8:38 am  · 
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b3tadine[sutures]

steven, that's a great point, being part of community organizations, task forces, business assoc, arts commissions and involved in aia committees; has given me a sense that being an architect should and often does allow me to have a bigger voice in issues that many times are not related to building buildings. i feel like now, even though unemployed, i am having a greater impact in the community and ultimately in my life.

15 years ago i seem to recall that same dilemma about what i am, intern or whatever, it seems more existential than it really is, and in the end it's a diversion and a distraction. if i spent all that time studying for the exam and not on things i couldn't control or change at the time, it'd take longer to get the damn paper that would've allowed me to call myself an architect.

take it from people who have been there; it's a waste of time and move on to the test taking.

USA, USA!

Feb 22, 10 8:45 am  · 
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argh. nice game (i speak of hockey of course).

architects do get respect, just not when there is money involved (i.e., fees).

those sounds like good things to know emily, whether you are an architect or not.

i can't remember when i realised that architects spend most of their time doing things that are not exactly about buildings, like hand holding and so on...but it doesn't bother me. master builder i never believed in as an idea (still don't) but doing what it takes to get really amazing places built, i am all for.

guess i am as much a whore as phil johnson. just not as interestingly wealthy.


Feb 22, 10 9:46 am  · 
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liberty bell

I'm having a very grumpy day, so probably best that I avoid here today. Though since the forum guidelines post went up, things have improved immensely, no? There are actually a number of good, useful threads happening!

Feb 22, 10 9:46 am  · 
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quizzical

lb - I agree wholeheartedly about the improved atmosphere the past few days - visiting Archinect is both enjoyable and enlightening again. Let's hope it lasts.

Feb 22, 10 9:57 am  · 
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Sarah Hamilton

Just got in from a check up. Abe gets an A++.

Em, I agree with the others. Get the liscense because you can. You may never use it, but it's goodto have in case you do need it. And besides, then you can call yourself an architect and thumb your nose at us lowly interns.

My issue is similar in that I have the degree and half of IDP but no where near the knowledge base to even begin studying for exams. And now I'm pursuing grade school education. Talk about sad.

Abe is being very quiet. I best go see what he's up to.

Feb 22, 10 10:27 am  · 
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n_

I'm on TEAM GET LICENSE, DUBK.

Feb 22, 10 12:20 pm  · 
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toasteroven
I don't understand how architects went from being master builders to being hand-holders for owners and contractors. It all seems pointless to me right now.

even though the etymology of "architect" loosely translates to "master builder" - from what I understand about the history of our field is that the hand-holding has been pretty much a constant since at least ancient Greece.

even vitruvius talks about serving clients, writing up contracts, selecting contractors, and staying within budget.

Feb 22, 10 12:45 pm  · 
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i also think the not-infrequent nostalgia for the 'master builder' is probably based on mis-remembered good old daze...

Feb 22, 10 1:52 pm  · 
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Sarah Hamilton

I think what maybe we all want is that Patron to fund our every design, and not care too much about what we design or how much it costs, as long it ups their reputation.

Feb 22, 10 2:04 pm  · 
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b3tadine[sutures]

how many of you will be applying for this position?

http://archinect.com/jobs/description.php?id=96207_0_30_0_C

just want to know what my competition will be like.

Feb 22, 10 3:28 pm  · 
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Ms Beary

Sarah, hmm, I don't want that.

If I had written down my interests that led me to architecture, I probably would have said something like I was interested in the spaces inbetween buildings, how they are used and their context, changing over time. Which are very important things to architects and it is some of what we study. But I will now add that I am not interested in planning, designing and building those spaces.

Why? Because if I could design my ideal building, it would take about 2 seconds, be architecturally boring - a single story, highbay rectangluar box that was meant to last and be reused and readapted, where the building gives away to the context. With good proportions and light of course, of course. (There are lots of existing buildings already like this.)

Feb 22, 10 3:34 pm  · 
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beta,
I saw that. personally i saw go for it if your interested. I am sure it would be interesting opportunity.

Can't imagine all that many would be interested given travel and danger of Kabul. Then again given the state of unemployment in the industry maybe there will be a flood of applicants.

Feb 22, 10 3:34 pm  · 
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Sarah Hamilton

Beta have you read the book Spaces between buildings? It was pretty good. Did you write it?

Feb 22, 10 4:56 pm  · 
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smallpotatoes

in response to a question on the previous page - schools ARE experiencing decreased enrollment. Our local university saw a significant drop from fall semester to spring in the first year studio. some attrition is typical, but this was unusual. It presents a real problem for the schools obviously. From what I hear lots of parents are counselling their children to look into other fields that aren't so battered right now. I think it's tremendously short sighted. Yes intern jobs are scarce right now...but 5 years from now will be a different conditon all the same.

I dreamt all night of passive solar greenhouses. I think I might start a thread asking for pics of well-designed grow structures...yes?

Feb 22, 10 5:26 pm  · 
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postal

beta, our firm started a large project that sounds similar. 12 hour days, danger pay, and paid leaves amounted to a 70% increase or something. I would never be the person to sign up (my wife would be none to pleased) but for some it's looks like a good opportunity. We had electrician lined up out the door who have been out of work for over a year just itchin' to go.

Feb 22, 10 6:25 pm  · 
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DJ like you were cheering as your home team scored against the Canadians so did I cheer when the lone Jamaican skier finished 9th beating out all the many other contestants with... well... uhmmm snow. And it makes seeing images like this less ridiculous in that context. However I am convinced that the day we medal in the bobsled is the day they will ban us from the Winter Olympics altogether luckily we didn't qualify this year. Little do they know we are there just for the party.

Feb 22, 10 7:00 pm  · 
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did you see my last email, archi?

Feb 22, 10 7:27 pm  · 
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liberty bell

If I didn't have spouse and child I'd go for the adventure - what would I have to lose?

smallpotatoes are you starting a grow op? It's a growth industry!

Feb 22, 10 7:43 pm  · 
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Sarah Hamilton

A grow what?

And my moms husband has been working in Kabul for a year now. He says it's not utopia but it's not as bad as it's portrayed. Tuen again it could get worse.

Feb 22, 10 7:55 pm  · 
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Steven yes I saw your email this afternoon when I went to the office. The programme director sent the information to the lecturers, and is awaiting their decision. But the suggestion of a two city tour seems to be wetting their chaps. Thanks again for everything

Feb 22, 10 8:08 pm  · 
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cool.

Feb 22, 10 8:43 pm  · 
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liberty bell

A grow op - to grow pot for selling. Op = operation. I learned this from Weeds.

Feb 22, 10 8:47 pm  · 
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hey jump, do you know takaharu tezuka? he just gave a great lecture here at upenn.

Feb 22, 10 9:09 pm  · 
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postal

toaster, i read your quote and the archmag blurb. i think you're right on in a lot of instances. (though, the boomer term is going to be toxic, if not already.) sure, maybe you sounds like a frustrated dbag who thinks they are being kept down by the "man"... but in reality, ambition has always driven our profession in one way or another. and due to the technological revolution in our profession, stuff like that needs be said.

people need to recognize that technology is moving too fast, and age diversification is necessary. i mean, some hot shot kid could code some revit api that could save the company oodles of dollars. he may not know how to counterflash, but it's valuable. the top needs to encourage that i believe. the sooner people recognize that the game is changing the better off they'll be. you need the old crafty quarterback just as much as you're going to need the rookie running back.

so yeah, my 2 cents to pick you up.

Feb 22, 10 9:38 pm  · 
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mantaray

hey Em you're probably watching aerials like me but I just read your question and wanted to talk to you about it but I went to call you and your number's not in my cell phone? So, I guess, email me your number if you like! And I will call you.

Feb 22, 10 9:41 pm  · 
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mantaray

ha ha ha, lb, sure you learned that from Weeds! ;-)

and techno, that picture is awesome!!! I didn't even know there was a Jamaican in the winter olympics! sweet -- and that is one GREAT finish placement for a country with no snow! I assume he trains somewhere else? Who is this guy and what inspired him to compete in a winter event?! Do tell us more!

Feb 22, 10 9:47 pm  · 
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Sarah Hamilton

Techno, I have to say that before I clicked the link and saw the photo, I thought your "ridiculous" picture was going to be of someone using a snow machine to cover a training area in Jamaica with snow. I think maybe my blog is getting to me.

Feb 22, 10 11:00 pm  · 
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holz.box

my dad was in kabul last year. he wasn't allowed to leave the base except for a few times, but he really enjoyed his time there (although... he also said it was like solitary confinement to some extent...) but i hear it's significantly worse about now.

if it was something like overseeing schools - i'd say go for it, beta. but outside that? i dunno if it's worth it. i do find it interesting that the DoD is advertising on the 'nect, however.

Feb 23, 10 12:29 am  · 
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you ladies are hilarious. The skier is one of our sons of dual heritage and after watching the bobsled team make the finals at the previous Olympics got inspired to switch teams. He's not had much financial support doing this... but is happy to make history

Feb 23, 10 12:31 am  · 
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seac02

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In practice, this software wants to shake the entire Virtual and Augmented Reality sector by the roots and help designers and achitects rethink their way of working, offering companies and professionals in this sector sector the possibility of expanding their business.

Feb 23, 10 6:17 am  · 
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hey architphil.

sure of course. funny enough my partner just sat in on a jury with him a few months back and got a really fantastic monograph as a business card. myself, funny enough i met him and his wife with mason white a few years ago to look at his fuji kindergarten project and have been a big fan ever since. both are super nice as people and they make very good buildings.

they don't seem to be on the same track as sejima and her cohort, nor do they have the cult status of atelier bow-wow but i think they are one of japan's finer firms today.

Feb 23, 10 9:38 am  · 
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morning all,

nice bit of spam..

I am playing hookie today from work. Feeling under the weather, but not sick.

Feb 23, 10 10:07 am  · 
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Sarah Hamilton

Morning. We were supposed to get snow, and I worried Abe wouldn't get to go to school, but it's just cold so I'm home alone!

Does anybody watch the new show spartcus? We watch it through netflix - some deal with starz they have- and itsgreat. Elle belle, you'd love it. It's graphically very similar to 300 and has a nice plot. Besides, I know how much you love men in loin cloths. He'll, half the time thy aren't even wearing that!

Feb 23, 10 10:26 am  · 
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toasteroven

that's one devoted spammer to navigate 366 pages of posts.

tezuka's work is impressive - I never heard of him (though, I recognize the fuji kindergarten). I particularly like the "forest of net."

Feb 23, 10 11:26 am  · 
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b3tadine[sutures]

sent in resume and application for afghanistan and saudi arabia. it appears that medical issues wont hold me up.

Feb 23, 10 3:25 pm  · 
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Sarah Hamilton

Beta, if you get the job, you have to start a thread chronicling your experience. We will all have to many questions.

Feb 23, 10 3:30 pm  · 
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b3tadine[sutures]

you know how i know i am human? the movie The Hours has me crying like a baby...

Feb 23, 10 3:37 pm  · 
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jump, he was passing out copies of the monograph (actually all 3 volumes of it) to people that asked questions after the lecture last night... very nice guy and very impressive work... i knew the natural history museum (the big corten snake that gets buried in snow) that they had done a few years ago, but didn't know any of their other projects... i particularly liked how he framed their architecture as being attentive to the needs of everyday life...

i was a little embarrassed for upenn at the beginning of the lecture... before the lecture he was telling me and a few other members of the lecture committee that he had audiences of like 100-200 people at harvard and columbia earlier this week and then at the beginning of his lecture here we had only managed to scrounge up maybe 40 people or so... and upenn is his alma mater too... luckily the crowd filled in shortly after he started and we probably ended up with around 100 people...

i don't know what it is about the culture here at upenn, but it is like pulling teeth to get people to show up to the lectures... even with really big name people... when i was at georgia tech and florida, the lectures were almost always packed regardless of how well known the person was...

Feb 23, 10 4:05 pm  · 
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mantaray

Wow, beta, you applied already?? Am I the only person that gets totally stymied by the daunting task of writing a cover letter? It takes me days.

Feb 23, 10 4:05 pm  · 
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also, jump, let me know if you're ever going to be in north america sometime in the next year or so... in addition to our main lecture series (which this semester has mayne, hadid, perrault, etc.) we have a smaller "contemporary architecture series" which has been featuring younger practices (sean lally, tezuka, jason johnson, etc.)... and i'd love to add you to the list... unfortunately, since it is a smaller series we probably don't have enough money to fly you from tokyo, but if you were in NA we could probably make it work.

Feb 23, 10 4:15 pm  · 
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