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archanonymous

I don't know what the hell is going on. I'm getting headhunted by recruiters and friends reaching out from a few corporate firms that I know for certain just laid people off. 

Anyone already working during the '08 recession know anything about this weird dynamic?

Jun 22, 20 6:55 pm  · 
1  · 
curtkram

reshuffling? this does not feel like '08 to me. however, the weird times gives everyone a chance to look around and think 'the grass is greener.' it's kind of like, a bunch of employees are feeling like they want to move on for a better career at the same time employers are thinking they want to strengthen or 'right size' their staff .

 · 
atelier nobody

You answered your own question when you specified "corporate" firms - one studio/department just finished or lost a project and another studio/department just picked one up. It's stupid, but I've worked for firms that do it.

Some firms are almost constantly both hiring and laying off at the same time - look at the ones that have ads on Archinect every single week.

 · 
axonapoplectic

.

 · 
liberty bell

Two younger staff left our office voluntarily this week, one to go out on his own. I know if one other local architect who was laid off but opened his own shop immediately and is keeping busy with residential remodels.

 · 
Bloopox

It does not feel like '08 to me either. In '08 it was like a hammer came down and squashed much of the profession pretty much all at once. It wasn't that all firms were on exactly the same timeline - but it started that spring, and by November/December of that year there were just piles of firms that had dumped all or very nearly all their staff. Even then though, it's important to understand that nationwide the lowest that architecture numbers ever hit was about 40% unemployment at the worst of it, and that didn't last for long. In the years since I've seen a lot of threads here in which people claim some vastly exaggerated numbers, like 80% unemployment that lasted for 6+ years, and well... all I can say about that is you just have to consider the source. In late 2008 I was laid off, and was unemployed for about 4-5 months until I got a job in a firm that was booming on certain types of niche projects. There were still places to go, but they took a lot of looking, and things did get very, very competitive.

Right now things feel a lot different, in that a good collection of firms across all sizes and markets seem to be extremely busy right through the current situation, while others are way down. It's much more difficult to make big generalizations about the why's in this current situation. I'm in a fairly large firm that has remained quite busy, with no changes in staff, and we're hiring for a few positions, while a similar firm doing similar projects right across the street has laid off several. A couple friends who have local residential firms are lamenting their total lack of work, and saying that everybody is scared to spend money right now, while a couple other friends with local residential firms are going crazy trying to keep up, and saying everyone is home learning that they need bigger houses, and still willing to spend for them.

It doesn't feel like the bottom is dropping out suddenly like in '08 - there's a lot of upheaval - lots of clients rethinking things, but in both directions - and still a lot of places for most architects to fit themselves, for now anyway.

2  · 
gwharton

I know from the personal perspective of senior management at large firms that all the big firms have used this as an opportunity for some staff realignment, which is another reason you see them laying off and hiring simultaneously. They have all been openly talking about this at the big firm roundtables. One of the major things a lot of us have been struggling with for the last couple of years is very tight labor markets: strategic hiring has been a huge struggle. Now there is a chance to fill strategic positions which have been open for some time while also reorganizing underperforming or expensive groups. So some significant part of this is opportunistic.

2  · 
square.

we could also be in something more akin to summer 07; don't be surprised if the economy gets significantly worse

 · 
JBeaumont

It could. Even if there weren't all the dramatic current upheaval, we'd be about due for a downturn. I've been in the profession long enough to have gone through 08 which affected most of the profession, and the tech bubble collapse in the early 2000s which affected some architecture firms enormously and some barely at all. I was in architecture school during the one in the late 80s/early 90s which greatly impacted construction and hence architects and consequently the bitter mindset of most of my instructors, who warned daily to get out of the field now or end up like them, scraping together adjunct teaching gigs and climbing over each other fighting for freelancer scraps. It's inevitable that there will be another downturn.  And another upturn.  And so on.

What's a little different about the current one is that it came very suddenly with less clear warning about what the impact would be on architects, and the impact has been so inconsistent.  The rest were all foreseeable from miles in advance, because architecture lags a behind the construction and finance indicators.  People deal with the cyclical uncertainty in different ways. Getting into a more stable profession is one, if you just don't want to deal with it. Getting into a comparatively more stable role within the profession is another (try facilities person for a large hospital system, or a government job.) Becoming a jack of a few trades and a good investor has been my coping strategy. When the inevitable upturns happen, those people who have stayed in it often find wide open opportunities, because of everybody who has left and chosen not to return.

1  · 
snooker-doodle-dandy

My mom was State of Arizona Archery Women"s Champion  when I was  a little kid.  


Jun 22, 20 7:10 pm  · 
3  · 
citizen

Did she ever remind you of this when you misbehaved? ("Get a head start, Sweetie. Mommy likes a challenge.")

1  · 
snooker-doodle-dandy

Mom was also a senior citizen athlete. You can't even imagine the metals she has stashed away. Last Senior Olympics Games she competed in 2 Golds a Bronze and a Silver. We never misbehaved cause we new the could out run all of her six children. She is 93 and still kicking!

3  · 
citizen

I would love to meet your mom.

 · 
tduds

Fuck insomnia. 

That's all.

Jun 23, 20 11:46 am  · 
2  · 
liberty bell

I barely slept last night, in part at least because I was CADding right up until bedtime so my brain was wired.

 · 
SneakyPete

I've been lucky to never have had trouble sleeping, but that's being sorely tested right now.

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

insomnia - tired

ansomnia - wired

1  · 

Hi.

Jun 23, 20 2:26 pm  · 
5  · 

Nice!

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Nice Reviting Donna.

3  · 
liberty bell

LOL I should be clear I did bit draw that! It’s from a fairly famous firm’s drawings for a project from 1989 that I saw today.

1  · 
liberty bell

Ugh “not” not “bit”.

 · 
Non Sequitur

It's been 16 years (at least) since I've opened FormZ... that streak was broken yesterday when I was forced to install it in order to access a 20-year old project file. 

your thoughts and prayers are appreciated.

Jun 24, 20 2:09 pm  · 
5  · 
square.

this was the first 3d modeling software i ever used, i think. i'll never forget the drop in my stomach when i stared into the abyss of formz, trying complicated tasks like making a cube

1  · 
Formerlyunknown

I still use FormZ, for my artwork, though not for architectural projects. I've been using it for close to 30 years so it's just my go-to for certain processes.  Like a native language, it's the one I think best in, even though I'm fluent in many newer, snazzier applications. But ever since they changed all the icons about 12 years ago or so it's not quite felt right, and the only version I still own is newer than that. For my purposes I should probably try to buy a 15+-year old version - and the old computer to run it.

1  · 
archanonymous

Archiving and accessing digital info is a real problem.

 · 
Non Sequitur

Fascinating. I admit these icon have a sketchup cartoon like look to them.

 · 
archanonymous

I haven't been able to get my head around AutoCad since they switched to the ribbon layout, and that was, what, 2013? Have no problems using Revit which has always been like that....

2  · 
Non Sequitur

Arch, I agree with the CAD ribbon menus... I can't stand them for more than 8minutes. Good thing I know most commands as shortcuts but still... I ended up making a custom CUI file using an older version of CAD to bring the menu bars back in the way I prefer.

 · 
citizen

I can spare four thoughts and a prayer-and-a-half.

1  · 
Jaetten

Doing a 14 riser straight staircase in AutoCAD, 10 number treads are 2300mm. 11 number treads are 2529.9999mm All treads are have a going of 230.000. Where's the missing millimetre gone? 

Snap options are endpoint only, all treads are copied.

I draw a line at 2300mm and another at 920mm and add together, they become 3219.9999.

Solve the mystery!

Jun 25, 20 8:01 am  · 
 · 
randomised

that's not a missing millimeter, that's 0.0001mm

1  · 
Non Sequitur

How are you measuring your lines? If using dims, check if they are rounding up or change the precision.

 · 
randomised

.

4  · 
Jaetten

Doing my tree in! I've got a perfectly accurate floor plan, I draw two perpendicular lines offset by 1000mm, trim to form a doorway, fillet the lines and at the the new opening, the wall thickness has gone from 302.5 down to 301.9777...

 · 
Jaetten

There was a second vertex point hidden under the correct vertex that was causing my issue... I feel like a prat now

Jun 25, 20 9:52 am  · 
 · 

No there wasn't and no you don't

 · 
Jaetten

Maybe so. I'm taking a break... 13.5hrs yesterday and 6.5hrs so far today and not yet had breakfast! Unhealthy work ethic... I'm putting my feet up for an hour!

1  · 
Jaetten

All fixed, I don't know now I managed it... I got a few lines ever so slightly off plumb.. The properties box showed the x coordinates that should have been identical were off by a tiny amount at either end of the offending line... Now I can take a break!

The door I had placed wasn't snapped to the corner either... and I had managed to align the other side of the wall to the door, no in line with the wall on the opposing side...

Head / Palm

 · 
Non Sequitur

Jae, we have this issue in almost every drawing. It's typically from staff scalling thinking they are ortho but then something snaps to a node somewhere and now we're in 0.0001 decimal zones.

1  · 
Jaetten

Non, I've been stretching and moving different parts for about an hour over zoom, back and forth agreeing wall / room partitions. I guess I did that without realising!

 · 
Non Sequitur

Daycare graduation this morning via zoom.  Sad face, but it's something.  I made him a graduation cap c/w gold pompom but he preferred to wear a fireman's helmet.

Jun 25, 20 11:42 am  · 
6  · 
SneakyPete

I'd like to suggest that non-architecture posts be given a heading and an option to hide on the main page similarly to the way academics is. We have two very loud, very busy, very angry typists who seem hell bent on turning this place into 4chan. 


Jun 25, 20 11:56 am  · 
3  · 

It wouldn't help the angry typists without a lot more moderation from archinect to move their posting into threads where it would belong. You only have to scroll halfway up this page to find that they don't keep things contained to appropriate threads. Better option is to just use the ignore feature. 

FWIW, I'd be in favor of being able to filter threads by all the topics & categories, not just academia. I just don't think it's going to help in this particular case without more moderation. Perhaps we should all just started flagging off-topic posts as inappropriate or spam ... ?

2  · 
Aluminate

This site's never been enthusiastic about moderating. It's better now than it used to be, but lacking. A lot of the discussions get taken to other less lenient (or findable) sites for continuation as soon as they start to get any good, and leave the trolls to play here. Archinect is a combination of test kitchen and sorting hat for panning out the good stuff from the dreck, and then the good stuff leaves. It doesn't seem like the best model but it's been like that for +/- 20 years now.

1  · 
SneakyPete

Other sites? You mean there's other places on the internet?

 · 
randomised

You could simply ignore b3ta, but where's the fun in that?

 · 
SneakyPete

I could simply ignore you, but you're a master class on bad trolling.

1  · 
Non Sequitur

is it time for beer yet?

 · 
tduds

It's always time for a beer.

1  · 
Non Sequitur

good. just check'n in case things had changed.

 · 

Does Archinect's home page look different to anyone?

Jun 25, 20 3:30 pm  · 
 · 
Bloopox

The logo has been different for a few days. Is something else different?

1  · 

That's what I see, Bloopox.

 · 
citizen

I forget about the homepage and almost never see it, since my bookmark is directly to the Forums page. But, yes, the logo seems new.

1  · 
Non Sequitur

I see 2 logos


1  · 
citizen

Ooooooooh. Something's going on.

Lo Shu Magic Square

1  · 

citizen, I also bookmark to the Forums LOL.

1  · 
atelier nobody

Wait, are you saying there are other parts of this site besides the forums and job board? Who knew?

3  · 
quizzical

There’s a job board?

 · 
citizen

The new logo takes me back to hand-numbering vellum drawing sheets with those metal Corbu stencils. Then, of course, deciding on the correct classical order for the temple renovation.



 · 
threadkilla

why the removal of the "monuments removal" thread, archinect?

Jun 26, 20 3:07 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

Rick started giving forum usage advice which a.k.a. a glitch in the matrix...

"But we can all agree that I shouldn't have to give out advice on proper forum usage in the first place by everyone engaging in proper forum usage."

1  · 
tduds

Did some threads just disappear?

Jun 26, 20 3:07 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

looks like it. The green head must have been angered.

1  · 
tduds

Curious what the final straw(man) was.

1  · 

Someone had over a dozen comments in the monuments thread in like a 2-hour window (still currently visible in their comment history ... at least until the cache gets cleared or something like that from archinect's servers). I'm sure those had nothing to do with it [/sarcasm].

 · 

Best comment in my view was Gregory Walker's rebuttal to gwharton. The Samuel L. Jackson joke was 'meh' at best.

3  · 
tduds

I'll echo that A+ to Gregory walker.

1  · 
randomised

some of my best work gone :-( fingers crossed the CHAP-thread won't get CHOPped.

1  · 
Non Sequitur

all nickleback evidence is gone.

3  · 
eeayeeayo

One would think that if someone had over 2 dozen comments in 2 hours in the problem thread - and particularly if that someone was also the reason for the mucking up and subsequent nuking of a variety of past threads - that the Big Green Head might find it more efficient to just nuke the someone.

2  · 

That thread had some of your best work randomised?

2  · 
citizen

Vaguely reminiscent of a few years back, when a certain prolific and reality-challenged gadfly* was finally given the heave-ho. Even the most vitriolic recent exchanges here pale next to that person's paranoid delusions. 

* Undiagnosed mental patient

 · 

Rick was forced off for a time and has come back (ever so slightly) better compared to what he was prior to the sabbatical. He still needs some boundaries (i.e. no posting here on TC) and moderating at times (he got himself booted and nuked from his own thread). 

I'm not advocating for one thing or another, but I'm not a fan of simply banning people. I do think, however, that sometimes some checks or boundaries need to be put up in order for some people to calm down and practice some restraint. The other idea of giving them their own space to work out their frustrations apparently didn't seem to work.

2  · 
midlander

the thread disappeared while i was trying to write something conveying my strong feelings without being openly hostile to a few strangers on the internet whose opinions i don't care for at all. i'm glad it's gone. some things are too important to discuss with unfiltered strangers.

 · 
midlander

yes. IRL i filter my interactions with strangers - for example i might chat with someone i meet walking down the street outside my mother's house, but if someone on the subway squeezes up to me and asks how things are going, i'll move away. on the internet it's hard to figure out the appropriate filtering.

2  · 
midlander

in neither case would i discuss my feelings on current political events. though with someone i just at a party hosted by a friend, i probably would.

 · 
randomised

"That thread had some of your best work randomised?"

It had the best work, with the best words, I know words!

 · 

Honestly amazed no one has yet asked the OP on the Frank Lloyd Wright corner window thread if s/he's an architect then blasted them for their lack of knowledge. Heat welding a 90d. glass corner? 

Jun 26, 20 4:42 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

I'd been ignoring that thread but I just skimmed it and... hoo boy.

1  · 

I was going to post that there are two kinds of windows: windows that leak, and windows that don't leak yet ... but decided there was already enough going on.

Edit: Nevermind, I hadn't read the latest ... hang on, BRB

1  · 
eeayeeayo

Yeah... I considered asking that, but decided not to because their initial post seems like a setup. The comment about knocking out that pesky unnecessary structure sounds like it's written by someone at least a small bit less clueless than they're trying to sound, who wants to prompt an ill-fated lecture on residential construction. And most people who post anything about FLW here are trolls.

1  ·  1
Jaetten

Are there any Scottish Gaelic speakers here?

I wondering if "òrd na cailleach bheur" is grammatically correct? Cailleach bheur, the queen of winter, who wielded a staff or hammer is part of the sites context for a project and I am trying to say 'Cailleach bheur's hammer' basically!

Jun 27, 20 8:28 am  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

Scottish you say?

Braveheart

1  · 

That's not Scottish - it's a blend of several Celtic and Norsk cultures combined with a tartan used 100 years after the movie was to take place. Yes I am that big of a nerd. 8-)

1  · 
citizen

Is it kind of like this?

 · 

Not quite that far but yes.

2  · 
Jaetten

Wasn't expecting that, I should've known! haha

 · 
randomised

It’s shite being Scottish”


www.youtube.com/watch?feature=...

Jun 27, 20 2:44 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

Bumping threads for no reason other than to keep them on the front page is idiotic. Randomised. 

Jun 28, 20 8:54 pm  · 
1  ·  1
randomised

I was doing it as a service...because of a comment in the free movies thread, revolutionary poet thought that https://archinect.com/forum/thread/150202399/the-autonomous-zone-dint-da-dint-da-dint-da-dint-da/0#last was also purged, while he had some interesting material for it. So I had a very valid reason imo, but whatever...


 · 
randomised
SneakyPete

Good to know that y'all are too lazy to even read the forum titles carefully. Might explain your arguments.

 · 
randomised

Lazy? Moi? The effort I had to go through to post all that...first double checking if a certain thread was axed or not, the stress alone about having my work maybe deleted, to then bump that thread and notify the person in the other thread about said thread not being deleted...that's like serious hard work! You're the one being lazy with your lazy and incorrect assumptions, you could've simply asked...

 · 
SneakyPete

You seem to think I was calling you lazy and not the lazy idiot who couldn't be half-assed to find the thread that was on the first page for over a week. But I guess if the shoe fits, wear it.

 · 
randomised

As a vegetarian I don't believe in such acts of violence and do all my ass-whooping with words, the best words.

2  · 
randomised

SP, Why calling somebody lazy over that at all? What did you try to get out of that exchange? When something is glued to the front page for quite a while and suddenly gone after some purging went on in similar threads exploring adjacent topics, I'd say it was reasonable to expect it was gone too, no? You just couldn't resist, jumped the gun and showed your hand..."Ha-Ha!" –Nelson Mandela Muntz

 · 
SneakyPete

I looked for it, too. Guess what? I found it, then decided to hope it would fucking die on its own, and THEN you morons unearthed it for the idiots who seem to be unable to find their own genitals with both hands, a flashlight, and the goddamned light brigade. But sure, what a tremendous self-own.

 · 
randomised

Since you’re such a jerk-off, I don’t need to bother finding my own genitals, you could simply let go of ‘em, thanks...

 · 
SneakyPete

Still looking for them, I'll keep you posted.

 · 

... aaaaaand another comment thread got Rick'ed. Some of randomised's best work was probably in there. 

https://archinect.com/news/article/150204203/highways-another-enduring-monument-to-american-racism

Jun 29, 20 3:12 pm  · 
5  · 
Non Sequitur

surprised it last that long honestly.

2  · 
SpontaneousCombustion

Does "getting Rick'ed" refer to the befoulment of the thread by the verb's namesake? Or to the subsequent partial or full removal of the thread by the mods? i.e. who does the Ricking?

2  · 
Non Sequitur

I had some of my best work in there too... showing restraint is work... right?

 · 
randomised

Well that thread was fucked from the start when b2ta posted the racist "fuck whitey" as the first comment, and I'm the bad guy here? I just want to point out that none of my comments there were hidden or removed, unless they fall under a hidden post by b3ta or otherwise of course. And no that thread does not have my best work because I simply quote b2ta's own source.

1  · 
SneakyPete

it's all so simple when you never accept responsibility, ain't it?

 · 

Sponty, that's a good question. We should come to an agreement on the terminology. My intent was to signal that it had been moderated quite extensively to remove the namesake's comments. It could also refer to the collateral damage such removal causes. For example, NS's comments got Rick'ed in the process. For the first issue, that of a thread getting befouled by the verb's namesake, I've used "balkinize," or "balkinization" in the past to refer to this. Below is an example from earlier this year giving more context:

4  · 
randomised

SneakyPete, I will not accept any responsibility for a racist writing 'fuck whitey' as a first comment on an item, you can be sure of that!

 · 

For the record, randomised, I don't think anyone was calling you the bad guy ... I wasn't FWIW. I was alluding to your earlier comments about the monuments thread as this was also monument related. More inside joke than finger pointing. I was blaming Rick, not you. I still wasn't calling him a bad guy though.

2  · 
SneakyPete

I'll call Rick a bad guy based on the shit he posted. I'll call you disingenuous, rando, but I'd bet big bucks that most of your firmly held principles would go right out the window for anyone you care about, and that's meant as a compliment.

1  · 
randomised

I know EA, that's not how I read it at all. I got the joke, I just responded too ambiguously. It was more a reaction to the discussion in that particular thread to SneakyB3ta than to your post, 4D chess gone wrong...I totally missed Rick's contributions to it by the way.

 · 
SneakyPete

4d chess, man even your references are wrong and dumb

1  · 
randomised

That was ironic you numbnuts.

 · 
randomised

You can call me whatever you want SneakyPete, but you don't even know what those principles are that I apparently hold so firmly, yet you seem to criticise me for them non-stop.

1  · 
randomised

x-jla, those numbnuts were meant for SP

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Watch it j-lax, I was watching Reds this weekend, and I think Jack Reed was right; nothing guns, fire squads, getting rid of the dead weight.

 · 
SneakyPete

Irony. You wield it so well as long as it's accidental.

 · 
SpontaneousCombustion

It looks like we've been unRick'ed.

1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

That's gotta burn.

1  · 
Non Sequitur

I’ve been drinking quads all evening. I am in no mind state to respond in an intelligent way to this. Carry on.

2  · 
randomised

“ Irony. You wield it so well as long as it's accidental.”

Ironic, isn’t it...:-P

1  · 
Non Sequitur

Like rain on your wedding day

2  · 

Due to some required PTO I am just finishing up a 4 day weekend. Not super jazzed about going back to work, though at least Friday is a day off too...Happy Independence day!

@EA dig the old pun re: Balkins / Balkinization.

Sorry to have missed the A+ Gregory Walker's rebuttal to gwharton!

Jun 30, 20 1:40 am  · 
4  · 

I don't think I'm breaking any rules here by posting these. Yes the thread has been removed, but apparently the comments still live on in the recorded comment histories of those involved (there's a metaphor in there re: monument removal and how it doesn't actually erase any history ... but we don't need to go into it). So since they are still accessible to any user of the site, here is the original comment from gwharton and the reply from Gregory Walker (the end of gwharton's comment get's cut off but it ends "[...] in the first place, On both sides."):


2  · 

I've been looking for the past few minutes, and I can't find Rick anywhere in the forum anymore. Older threads where I know he had comments don't even show him anymore (one example). I think archinect finally had enough and Rick'ed itself.

Jun 30, 20 2:39 am  · 
1  · 

Only place I've been able to find Rick is the thumbs he's left around here and there:


 · 
randomised

He might be back already...

1  · 
5839

Last night he posted a racist rant, accusing this site of discriminating against him for being white and male, and predicting that they would quickly delete the post. It lasted very briefly - maybe a few minutes before it evaporated - seemingly with all his other posts. When a similar last straw type thing happened a few years ago (that time he cut and pasted a pages-long homophobic rant from Reddit) he was back with a new name within days.

 · 

If that's the case, I can't imagine Paul would let him come back again. I reached out to him via email last night and he indicated he wasn't sure what he said to get blocked. He also didn't seem to upset about it, at least in his writing. I told him to focus on his goals. Maybe this will be a good thing for him.

 · 
5839

He certainly did know that last night's post was likely to be perceived negatively and removed. The post was overtly racist and misogynist, quite self-aware of that, and written as a direct dare to the mods to do something about it, even containing a statement to the effect that he was sure it wouldn't be visible for long. What he seemed to be going for was a deletion of that thread, so that he could in turn use that as the basis for his next rant, and so on. He may not have anticipated that the mods would extrapolate the consequences to a full ban - but it shouldn't have been a genuine surprise.  He should have suspected he was on very thin ice already, given his history.

 · 

You're correct, he knew the post was inflammatory and was meant to provoke the moderators, as he later recounted. 

He's now emailing me with opinions about the conversations here and responses to posts like yours. I just wanted to reach out to get some clarity and offer some empathy for him getting the boot. I didn't think it would result in 3 unsolicited and unnecessary replies today (somethings never change, amiright!?). It could be worse though. I could have used an email account associated with my real name instead of a throw-away one. 

At any rate ... so long, Astoria. He'll eventually get bored without the attention.

1  · 
SpontaneousCombustion

Yeah randomized he is back already. Grammar always gets him.

 · 
midlander

Discussions that touch on licensure always bring out the most repugnant architects, the ones who view their license as a distinction and the key source of their value in the market. I can't bother myself to debate with them; unlike a few regulars here they just come out of nowhere with no personality and no sense of fun in argument.

It cuts them to the core to suggest that what architects do has no more relevance to public safety as busdriving. Yes, if you screw up you can kill a lot of people. It's not hard to learn how not to screw up. Where problems happen it's always in some perverse subtlety of miscommunication that licensing can't prevent because it's genuinely accidental.

The argument that licenses are what distinguish architects in the public eye is absurd, given how unaware of licensure the general public actually is. And the expert clients on big projects, they pick architects on reputation and skill. The license means nothing; it's merely a requirement.

Jun 30, 20 10:03 am  · 
 · 

I don't disagree with all that you posted, however you seem to have a big chip on your shoulder regarding licensing. Is this something personal?

2  · 
Non Sequitur

But what about the value of said license when cruising the bar scene? What about making small talk at cocktail parties?

2  · 

Are you telling me that in Canada there are architectural groupies?

1  · 
Non Sequitur

So many groupies that I need to repel them with a sharpened T square.

 · 
midlander

Chad, I think everyone has some weird hangup that can't rationally be explained - I guess this is mine. I got my license within 5 years of graduating and had no problems except the inexplicable 9 month delay between passing the last test and having my record sent to the state board. This was due to staff at ncarb mis-filing my record (twice!) for which convenience they charged the regular $450 or whatever it was...

 · 
midlander

Non, I can only think of one time I had to sneak out of a bar to get away from unwanted affection, and that's entirely my fault for dressing in my only nice suit for an important meeting before heading out with my tall+strong-pheromone buddy for drinks. I never even told her my license number or state (it's a biggish one!).

1  · 
Non Sequitur

mid, sometimes once is one time too many. Close call in your case, you should be more careful.

 · 

I was once offered to be part of a threesome with a woman who swims as a mermaid at the Denver aquarium. Her husband wanted to watch. So that was because I'm an architect?

 · 
Non Sequitur

I once had a bartender pour me a glass of Oban 14 single malt like it was a bottle of white wine. This is probably because he was so enamoured with my license.

narrator: it was more than one glass

1  · 

So does the number on my license impact it's effectiveness on swooning others? Is a lower or higher number desirable?

 · 
SneakyPete

Bigger is always better, Chad.

 · 
tduds

For once a thread takes a turn for the better!

2  · 
mightyaa

“Where problems happen it's always in some perverse subtlety of miscommunication that licensing can't prevent because it's genuinely accidental.” Lol… bullshit. I do this for a living. The death lawsuits I’ve done are not subtle miscommunications; these are details, created by the architect, that caused someone’s death. Fire-ratings; that’s you. Exiting plans; you. Moisture management systems failures that caused the rot in the framing; you . Poor material choices used in bad places; you. Vapor, condensation, ventilation of attics; you. Flame-spread; you. Observations to notify non-conforming work; you. Guardrail details; you. Handrails; you. Pool-enclosures; you. The list goes on and on… and these mistakes are with a license. Without? Go ahead and youtube a DIY for UL assemblies, exiting plans, and how to interpret codes and standards. Those questions go over well here right? A house is a much different project than anything regulated by the IBC. That larger stuff needs at least some minimal standards of whom is qualified to design and lead it; to decide, that means a test unless you can think of some other way besides just taking your word for it. So even those egotistical architects who tout design godhood… probably know building code and understand building sciences; they know more than just how to make it pretty; they know how to select and detail systems and put a lot of thought behind those things during the design. Joe-Bob probably doesn’t even understand why, how or how to stop condensation on his beer can. Architects had a f’n class that covered it.

3  · 
midlander

mightyaa - your perspective on this is interesting. what reasons do you see behind properly licensed architects making these mistakes? my point is that despite its length and complexity, the AXP process does almost nothing to ensure architects develop useful and relevant technical knowledge. it's just logging hours in categories. generic experience doesn't yield specific knowledge. i for one wouldn't touch type 3/4 construction on my own because my fully-compliant internship and work experience never included it. i'm peeved by those architects who think the license itself is absolute proof of their qualifications - all licensed architects have blind spots in their knowledge. like for the bus driver, the license only indicates basic minimum competence. any decent architect knows that they should be seeking out advice from experts with long-term experience in the specific area - and those experts may not be licensed architects. often not, when it comes to building products and envelope assemblies.

 · 
midlander

internship takes 5600 hours of work (iirc) regardless if it's under a competent architect or not. they have no obligation to make the experience informative and you may or may not learn anything useful. from the public perspective it provides a false assurance of expertise. so i'm annoyed when some architects hold up their license as a mark of superiority that needs to be defended. you have excellent knowledge that i suspect exceeds what the typical practicing architect knows - how much of it came from studying for the exams and internships versus from experience during a career focused on seeing buildings built?

 · 
mightyaa

Midlander, it isn’t just the AXP. First there is the NAAB education; there are requirements for programs to gain accreditation. https://www.naab.org/wp-content/uploads/2020-NAAB-Conditions-for-Accreditation.pdf That’s 5-6 years of training. Then the AXP, then the ARE. But the intent is clear; there is actually a lot of stuff you should know if you are designing buildings and some basic agreed upon standards are necessary. Basically, advanced societies realized the health, safety and welfare of their citizens need to have some sort of assurances those they hire are qualified and trained to do that work. Think of it this way. Do you consciously do a risk assessment before walking through the door in a newer building constructed in a highly regulated first world nation? Would you in a third world nation where regulations/certifications aren’t tight? You should. An example; One year ago a 7.1 earthquake hit LA.. no deaths, no biggy. A 6.9 earthquake hit Indonesia august 2018 and 460 people died, and one later in sept of the same year hitting 7.5 killed 2,000. Do you think this is luck? Nope.. I’m sure you know some shitty architects, but I’d still rather have them than some non-trained guy with a hammer and a ‘can do attitude’. I know that shitty architect at several points had to actually pass classes, had to learn certain shit, trained under someone who is actually licensed and practicing, and had to pass another exam showing he/she at least knows something about buildings. The other guy just had to buy a computer and drafting software; nothing in the way of actual training.

1  · 
tduds

This describes pretty well why I've finally given up on the various debate threads around here. 

https://www.thebellows.org/the-art-of-the-bad-faith-argument/

Jun 30, 20 3:38 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised


https://archinect.com/news/art...


Jun 30, 20 4:24 pm  · 
1  · 
5839

#performative allyship

 · 
gwharton

Is that why they have closed comments and deleted a bunch that were already there?

 · 
Archinect

Cracking down on trolls and racists. Not welcome here.

4  ·  2
gwharton

No dissent allowed, comrades. Agree or go to the gulag.

1  · 
randomised

Wasn’t trolling or being racist archinect, just questioned the idea as a slippery slope towards more division rather than inclusivity. Your overreaching by “cracking down” shows that slope is even more slippery than I indicated initially...again, proving my point for me :-(

1  · 
Archinect

decisions are based not only on one or two comments, they are taken into the consideration of a user's history. gwharton - bummed we removed your comment about putting nazi-style colored triangles on firm profile owned by diverse individuals?

4  · 
Archinect

gwarton - not quite accurate. assholes that troll with shitty comments are not allowed and can fuck off :)

2  · 
gwharton

Identifying people by race using colored icons does have a history you seem ashamed to allow to be discussed. It's revealing that you consider pointing out the uncomfortable history of that approach to be "trolling." And that you feel the need to insult people who might dare to bring it up.

1  · 
Archinect

oh, so you didn't read the article. you jumped to the comments section based on how the cover image made you feel...

1  · 
Archinect

this initiative, to raise awareness of firms owned by underrepresented groups, is part of a bigger social movement to help lift up business owners and communities that have lived through struggle due to systemic discrimination and racism. Archinect is hardly the first to take a stance here. before we released this publicly we had numerous discussions with members of the architecture community about this new feature, making a few modifications, before we reached an approach everyone agreed with. you, on the other hand, don't seem to represent the demographic that would appreciate anything of the sort.

4  · 
gwharton

My goodness you sure do love to make assumptions about people, don't you. I did read the article. Just because the designation is voluntary doesn't change the history of these sorts of things. But please, continue rationalizing and judging people who dare to disagree with your narrative.

 · 
Archinect

if you don't like us moderating your hate-speech and dog-whistling then PLEASE find another website to troll.

4  · 
SneakyPete

you're such an idiot. you're ricky's dumber, more confident twin.

 · 
SneakyPete

Yeah, I called you a name. Now cry about it.

 · 
SneakyPete

you, idiot.

 · 
tduds

This is so frequently relevant I have it saved on my work desktop

1  · 
SneakyPete

Take it any way you want. I'll celebrate if you stop turning up around here. Same with randomised, gwharton, and the random username generator fan club you guys have following you around smearing feces on the walls. This is a website, not some last bastion of all that makes america free and amazing, and you certainly won't change that with your constant mouth breathing.

2  · 

tduds, I LOVE that dril tweet, so much.

2  · 
randomised

Mission: The goal of Archinect is to make architecture more connected and open-minded, and bring together designers from around the world to introduce new ideas from all disciplines.


Background: Archinect was initially developed in 1997 by Paul Petrunia. The site has since become a top online destination for progressive-design oriented students, architects, educators, and fans.


The Team: Archinect's direction is driven by the staff and contributors, as pictured below. Archinect's member-based community system allows anyone to participate by registering and contributing. Please contact us if you would like to contribute. We're always open to new perspectivese.

Jun 30, 20 5:37 pm  · 
1  · 

randomized, you said, unless I misunderstood, that b3ta using the term "whitey" is racist. This is wrong, according to contemporary cultural norms. I know I've said this to you before, but I'll repeat it (though I despair of you ever being able to recognize the distinction): "reverse racism" is not a real thing. Racism *always* involves punching down. White people, in the US, are and have been the dominant culture. When white people, like me, make fun of white people, and when any other non-white group makes fun of white people, it's not racism. It may be rude, or mean, or over-generalized, or simplification, or lots of other things, but it's not racism. If Archinect doesn't want to allow *racism* on its website, that's Archinect's choice.

2  ·  1
archi_dude

So Donna, when does it switch to being punching down. Being afraid to have any opinion that stands up or celebrates your achievements, culture and history for fear of being socially and economically cancelled doesnt sound like white males are punching down. Sounds more like punching up. I' d think it would be more important to focus on equality than trying to play some highly complex game of whose got more disadvantaged points and who can punch who. I was raised that you should treat everyone equally. Seems as though you are preaching that you can treat certain people badly based on their race. I would say that's racist.

4  · 
tduds

Well you tried, Donna.

3  · 
tduds

"So Donna, when does it switch to being punching down" 

We got a long ways to go before that, bucko. Chill.

1  ·  1
randomised

Donna, "fuck whitey" was just an example, among many other things. But that's not the issue. Those contemporary cultural norms you mention are skewed when they allow for racist hate speech just because of the sender, while it is in the receiving where the racism occurs, no? It has nothing to do with punching down or up, the racism is in the punching! I thought racial profiling was a thing to be protested against, but apparently, I'm out of touch with your zeitgeist. But here's a thing, maybe those stigmatising labels of colours to highlight diversity that have been dusted off can also be applied to usernames here, so the lucky mofo with the most labels can say the most vile, sexist, hateful and racist things and there's nothing anyone can do about it. And anyone who dares to question such a backwards system, who warns about the possible negative ramifications, a system that divides rather than unites will feel the fury of the archinect mob. Great job(!)

2  · 
curtkram

randomized, so you're saying you don't understand? how willful is that? do you want to try to understand, or are you pretty happy with where you're at?

 · 
randomised

I don’t understand why racism is used to counter racism, true...I would love to understand why people think that is considered progress or progressive.

1  · 
archi_dude

So under Donna's logic if a minority shoots a bunch of the dominant group. That's not a hate crime or racist? Its punching up correct? I'm just not following how one group can hold negative stereotypes based on race but it's okay for them.

2  · 
tduds

"The invitation to explain clearly observable things to a person demonstrating a clear desire not to observe them is not as enticing a proposition as many seem to think." -AR Moxon

1  · 
Wood Guy

archi_dude, correct, that is not a "racist" crime. Still a crime (unless in self-defense) and it can be called racially motivated, but the term "racist" today has a specific meaning.

A bad analogy: I do the same work that an architect does, but I am not an architect, because most people agree that "architect" has specific credentials that I do not have. 

1  ·  1
SneakyPete

*sigh*


 · 

If we were living in a world without any historical context to shape our definitions of words and give them meaning beyond the black and white text in a dictionary ... you'd be correct in asserting that racism would include targeted prejudice, discrimination, animosity, etc. toward a person because of their racial or ethnic group. This would be true regardless of the person's race doing the targeting, and likewise the race of the person being targeted. 

First, however, we do live in a world with historical context and you'll find that it is commonly accepted that reverse-racism is not a thing (unless you're in a conservative bubble) because the common understanding of racism is that it is targeted against a minority group or marginalized group. White people have never been a minority or marginalized in the US. 

Second, using a dictionary definition isn't a good way to settle a dispute. At least Merriam-Webster thinks so: "Dictionaries are often treated as the final arbiter in arguments over a word’s meaning, but they are not always well suited for settling disputes. The lexicographer’s role is to explain how words are (or have been) actually used, not how some may feel that they should be used, and they say nothing about the intrinsic nature of the thing named by a word, much less the significance it may have for individuals. When discussing concepts like racism, therefore, it is prudent to recognize that quoting from a dictionary is unlikely to either mollify or persuade the person with whom one is arguing."

4  ·  1
liberty bell

archidude your scenario would be *race-motivated* but not racist. Read Wood Guy’s post.

 ·  1
liberty bell

And an example of how “treating everyone equally” isn’t good enough. If two people are approaching two adjacent doors, and they both appear able-bodied but one of them has their hands full of big bulky things, who should you rush to hold the door open for?

1  · 
liberty bell

(That reply was to you, archi-dude, because you proposed that treating everyone equally was your approach.)

 · 
randomised

So, if you want to get in the door, make sure to bear as much baggage as possible, and then some? That's probably why Elizabeth Warren had to make up her indigenous heritage...

1  · 
tduds

.No photo description available.

1  · 
randomised

Everyday Architect, racism is still racist even when not directed at marginalised or minority groups, it is about the belief someone is inferior because of their skin colour, ethnicity, nationality, culture or race etc. and where that person stands on the ladder of marginalism does not matter as such at all. There's no free pass for racism.

1  ·  1

randomised, it appears you read my earlier post because you're directing this to me, but it is also obvious you did not read my earlier post because you obviously didn't grasp what I clearly wrote and you've offered no substantive rebuttal of the point I made. 

Do I need to post it again? I don't think I do ... I think you're intentionally missing the point. See tduds' earlier comments about bad faith arguments and the invitation to point out clearly observable things to someone with no desire of observing them. 

Then, if you're so inclined, go ahead and read my post again and come back with a better (good faith) argument than the argument I shot down with my earlier post. If not, tduds has a pacifier for you (make sure to read the warning label).

 · 
randomised

I'm responding to the post in this particular thread below my post of the archinect "about" section. What did I miss? 

There is no historical context where it is okay to be racist, and racism in selfdefense does not exist either. So, how is that a bad faith argument? What argument did you shoot down, I really don't see it. 

I don't know why it is ridiculous to say that all racism is wrong, directed at marginalised, minority groups or otherwise. If that sounds so ridiculous, well I guess I'm sorry for sounding ridiculous.

1  · 
tduds

It's not that racism isn't wrong it's that what you're describing as a Devil's Advocate Strawman is not racism, which has been *repeatedly* explained to you in these replies. At a certain point the misunderstanding becomes a choice.

4  · 

Moving the goalposts fallacy. No one is arguing against you that all racism is wrong ... racism is bad (mmkay?). 

The point that is being made is that focusing on a dictionary definition of racism, and then using that to prove reverse racism against white people, is missing the historical context of racism in the United States. In that context, there is no such thing as reverse racism because white people have never been a minority nor marginalized. 

I don't really care if you see it that way or not. You're free to agree, or disagree and say "all lives matter" ... including never marginalized white people lives ... if it makes you happy. We're just pointing out why nobody (except Fox News personalities) takes that argument seriously. That's why you sound ridiculous.

1  · 
SneakyPete

this is futile. ignorance by choice is incurable. randomised is a lost cause. toss him on the trash heap along with all the other garbage.

 ·  1
randomised

Sorry, but you guys are claiming that when racism occurs against non-marginalised or non-minority groups that this is in some weird way not racism, that this only happens in textbooks or something. I think such an assumption to only see minorities or marginalised people as potential victim of racism, is perhaps even racist. Every human being can be a racist or a victim of racism, to reserve that victimhood to specific groups of people or individuals is in and of itself racist I suppose. Why is it a devil's advocate strawman tactic, I just point out again and again, that also non-minorities or non-marginalised people can be a victims of racism, what is wrong with that? Maybe you are all misunderstanding things deliberately and collectively, I'm here to guide you, from a place that is already much more advanced in practically every which way, if I were you I'd better pay attention as you might learn something :-) For about two decades we already legalised gay marriage in the constitution, it's been accepted widely to be gay openly decades prior already but legislation had to catch up, weed and marihuana are legal ever since I can remember, we have a humanistic approach to euthanasia which is legal and supervised by doctors for about two decades as well, we have like 5 times more multicultural relationships here in Old Amsterdam than in your former New Amsterdam across the pond, with the percentage of non-Dutch heritage for Amsterdam residents over 50% (For the entire country it is just below 25%). I am actually a minority here, but my kids are not :-) I know the US has some deep-rooted issues with race and skin colour and segregationism, I read archinect too and that's why I'm here...but people don't want to hear it or discuss it because there is only room for one narrative and one narrative only. I'm just telling that adding diversity labels to company profiles is not the way forward in my opinion but backwards and emphasizes people's differences rather than what unites them, us, it makes people retreat into their own safely labelled bubble rather than extend that hand outwards. My ancestors came to Holland to flee being labelled and eventually persecuted for their diversity and found their freedom, without labels, as individuals as human beings. When diversity labelling can eventually become a tool to give and take away agency according to the right labels they've (been) attached or not, is that bringing things further? I sincerely believe not. I hope you will see this as well one day and that your society can be as progressive and open as where I live, but until then you are almost a lost cause. Look at your broken binary political system and those demented old white guys that are supposed to lead the way, that binaryism translates into archinect as well. You either get in line, follow the party, the editor, the TC-mob, the doctrine, or you're out. There's no room for discussion, everybody holds on to their own truths as if they were poured in concrete, nobody is willing to look for the common ground, what people share. You're either with us or against us. Binary. The political system in the Netherlands is built on this looking for common ground, and that starts by accepting our differences but look for what we share. We don't have this winner takes all mentality, we look out for one another especially the people that didn't win (yet), and we wear a mask if it is uncomfortable but helps our neighbour. Just look at the state your self-centred country is in, it is literally crumbling on all levels and all you do is fight with people you disagree with or try to cancel them or silence them rather than look for a way forward together. And it is not because of any outside influence, no Putin or China or Al Qaida or whatever, it is you, all you. Too busy punching up and down...just as long as you can punch someone, if not here, then there, anywhere. Okay that's it, now I'm going to suck on a pacifier, luckily my son has some lying around...from natural organic rubber of course, not that toxic plastic shit tduds posted.

 · 
Non Sequitur

Balkins 2.0 up there.

1  · 

TLDR: Rando is a white Dutch man who is now a minority in the Netherlands and is upset he can't claim racism against himself.

 ·  1
curtkram

Rando, more words doesn't make you less wrong

1  · 

Such a bad faith argument if I ever saw one. For the record, I found the common ground--first in the dictionary definition, and then again with "all racism is bad"--hoping we could, in good faith, understand (not necessarily agree with) one another's viewpoints. I've acknowledged that the view of reverse racism could be fine without any context ... I understand where it is coming from. Unfortunately, I don't agree with it. 

So randomised, I've given you mostly what you want: you have your common ground, you have me understanding your viewpoint and accepting the differences, they only thing I'm not giving you is my agreement in your ridiculous views because I can't do that in good conscience. I'll even give you a final anecdotal account, my own, of living for years in a foreign country and being persecuted for who I was, a white American. 

While living there, I had rocks thrown at me while just walking down the street, I was called names (many of them directly linked to my nationality), I was spat upon, I was told to leave and go home, I was taken advantage of, and I was mistreated (even to the point of being robbed) all because of people's preconceived notions (some correct, some incorrect) about my nationality, ethnicity, politics, wealth, and religion. You, or others, may consider that reverse racism. I don't for one really simple reason ... I'm a privileged, white, male American and I went there voluntarily, and at anytime I wanted to I could have just gotten a plane ticket and gone home (at the time it didn't feel like I was privileged, but I definitely was even though my family was, by the American definition, poor and we'd have barely been able to afford the plane ticket). 

While I can't come close to understanding the true effects of racism (and please don't take this account as me thinking I do), I believe in part that those people truly suffering racism are made to feel like they are inferior, unacceptable, don't belong, and have no recourse because they do not have the same privileges and opportunities that those persecuting and discriminating against them have. I think that last part is a key difference. White people in the US have always had more privilege and opportunity than any other group ... full stop. 

Until you're involuntarily forced into a place with that type of inferiority pushed on you, and you are truly marginalized, I don't think you have any claim to being a victim of racism. Harassment? Possibly. Ill-treatment? Of course. Persecution? Sure, as I even claimed this in my recounting above ... but not racism. Not even close to experiencing racism. This is why I can claim I understand where the concept of reverse racism is coming from, but I cannot in good conscience accept it as something that actually happens here because I also understand the historical context that has shaped racism in my country.

2  · 
randomised

@Non Sequitur

Balkins 2.0 up there.

–Probably :) Long train ride, didn't feel like editing.

 
@Chad Miller
TLDR: Rando is a white Dutch man who is now a minority in the Netherlands and is upset he can't claim racism against himself.

–That you didn't read it is very clear. 
 
@curtkram
Rando, more words doesn't make you less wrong.

–I just see things a little different.

@Everyday Architect
Such a bad faith argument if I ever saw one. For the record, I found the common ground--first in the dictionary definition, and then again with "all racism is bad"--hoping we could, in good faith, understand (not necessarily agree with) one another's viewpoints. I've acknowledged that the view of reverse racism could be fine without any context ... I understand where it is coming from. Unfortunately, I don't agree with it.

–Saying that every person can be a victim of racism is not an argument in bad faith but a simple fact. To deny that might actually be racist, no?


So randomised, I've given you mostly what you want: you have your common ground, you have me understanding your viewpoint and accepting the differences, they only thing I'm not giving you is my agreement in your ridiculous views because I can't do that in good conscience. I'll even give you a final anecdotal account, my own, of living for years in a foreign country and being persecuted for who I was, a white American. 

–It is so ridiculous to state that non-minorities can't be a victim of racism. Sorry but it simply is. Anyone can be the target of racism, anyone. You yourself once joined in on a conversation I had with b3ta after Albert Speer Jr. died. I accused b3ta of being racist towards me/Dutch people in that case. I called him out for cheering the guy's death and things spiralled out of control and you actually agreed and backed me up on that accusation. Unfortunately, the thread/post got scrubbed clean afterwards but I'm sure you remember the exchange. 


While living there, I had rocks thrown at me while just walking down the street, I was called names (many of them directly linked to my nationality), I was spat upon, I was told to leave and go home, I was taken advantage of, and I was mistreated (even to the point of being robbed) all because of people's preconceived notions (some correct, some incorrect) about my nationality, ethnicity, politics, wealth, and religion. You, or others, may consider that reverse racism. I don't for one really simple reason ... I'm a privileged, white, male American and I went there voluntarily, and at anytime I wanted to I could have just gotten a plane ticket and gone home (at the time it didn't feel like I was privileged, but I definitely was even though my family was, by the American definition, poor and we'd have barely been able to afford the plane ticket). 

–I would definitely call that being a victim of racism and racist abuse, they attacked you for your ethnicity, nationality, religion etc. A textbook(!) case. The fact that you don't want to see it like that, I really don't understand.


While I can't come close to understanding the true effects of racism (and please don't take this account as me thinking I do), I believe in part that those people truly suffering racism are made to feel like they are inferior, unacceptable, don't belong, and have no recourse because they do not have the same privileges and opportunities that those persecuting and discriminating against them have. I think that last part is a key difference. White people in the US have always had more privilege and opportunity than any other group ... full stop. 

–The amount of privilege or opportunities a person in theory has or doesn't have has nothing to do with being immune for being on the receiving end of racism and racist abuse. Anyone can be made to feel like they are inferior, unacceptable or don't belong somewhere. To claim otherwise, sorry I really don't get that. If somebody would say 'Kill all the Black people!', that is obviously racist. If somebody would say 'Kill all the White people!', that is also racist. At least where I come from it is both considered racist, you don't need to look at who says it and who it is said to, but you simply need to look at what is being said, and in both cases that would be considered racist.


Until you're involuntarily forced into a place with that type of inferiority pushed on you, and you are truly marginalized, I don't think you have any claim to being a victim of racism. Harassment? Possibly. Ill-treatment? Of course. Persecution? Sure, as I even claimed this in my recounting above ... but not racism. Not even close to experiencing racism. This is why I can claim I understand where the concept of reverse racism is coming from, but I cannot in good conscience accept it as something that actually happens here because I also understand the historical context that has shaped racism in my country.

–Sorry but I still disagree, I think anyone can be a victim of racism and anyone can be perpetrator of racism.


–I think this focus on White privilege is distracting too much from the fight against racism, it makes all White people seem guilty and complicit when the focus should be more on the social and structural issues as the laws, practices and institutions that maintain racial discrimination, in my opinion.

 · 
SneakyPete

"To deny that might actually be racist, no?"


No.

 · 
randomised

Oh.

 · 
curtkram

i don't think understanding white privilege should make you feel guilty. i think if you understood what white privilege is, you would be more likely to understand why people are telling you reverse racism isn't a thing.

 · 
randomised

I understand what White privilege is, but I don't think the primary focus should be necessarily on it. Put the energy in ending the structural injustices that hit Black people hardest. When individuals acknowledge their White privilege it often ends there, they've acknowledged it and move on, feeling better about themselves. It doesn't change anything structurally within the system.

 · 
curtkram

You just said it makes all white people seem guilty, then you said they move on, feeling better about themselves?

 · 
randomised

Yes indeed! The concept or theory vs the harsh reality...

 · 

curtkram, you see, he’ll accept there is a difference between a concept or theory and the harsh reality when it suits him. But when it comes to reverse racism, he’ll continue to beat the concept without understanding the harsh reality. Think of how much energy he could be putting into ending structural injustices that hit Black people hardest if he simply stopped caring how white people felt about things that don’t exist in reality.

1  ·  1
Non Sequitur

it's always easier to invent a boogeyman than try to understand things as they are.

 · 
randomised

EA, I've never not accepted that difference! But you can't ignore the true meaning of racism just because it suits your interpretation. Why is racial profiling unacceptable when done by police officers but applauded when done by college admission boards? 

By the way, the structural injustices hit Black people hardest because the American system first and foremost hates the poor, it just so happens to be (because of racism among other things) that there are relatively more Black people in poverty. 

The entire prison system seems to disfavour Black people not just because they're Black but because they're poor. And the poor need to be dealt with accordingly! As Americans use their prisoners as the new slave labourers, check the 13th Amendment that "abolished" slavery: 


"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, EXCEPT AS A PUNISHMENT FOR CRIME whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.". 

Almost everything made by larger corporations that has Made in USA on it, was made by prisoners/slave labour. But go and acknowledge your privilege, happy 4th...

 · 
randomised

Non, which boogeyman?

 · 
tduds

sober tduds: "Whining about meritocracy ignores the reality that we are not currently living in one, and complaining about things like this is - whether one realizes it or not - impeding attempts to build a more meritocratic system."

Three beers deep post spec-review tduds: "We're workin' on it. & folks gettin' pissy cause we're not there yet is getting in the way."

Jul 1, 20 12:35 am  · 
5  · 
atelier nobody

Speaking as a spec writer, I wish more PAs/PMs understood the value of cracking open a beer and relaxing with a set of specs. I hope it was good beer.

4  · 

atelier nobody, does that only apply to PAs and PMs? Or, and hear me out, does that mean that as a spec writer you should always have a beer cracked open?

 · 
atelier nobody

Well, personally I'm a teetotaler for medical reasons, but for those who can, it has been my observation that all aspects of architecture practice go well with beer.

1  · 
tduds

Design drunk, edit... less drunk.

 · 

Looks like TC got Rick'ed last night ... this time to remove x-jla/jla-x.

Jul 1, 20 11:47 am  · 
 · 
5839

I think they also removed Rick himself again last night. Either that or somebody had gone to the trouble of making a new account for the sole purpose of emulating Rick's language foibles, political views, and compulsion to antagonize Donna.

 · 
randomised

And TC just became a little paler...that forced diversity stance is really working miracles(!) 

Sorry, it's Canadian:



1  · 
SneakyPete

My heart bleeds for you and your valiant defense of inclusivity.

1  · 

5839, I wouldn't put it past him. Give him a half a day and I'm sure I'll have an email from him either confirming or denying that.

 · 
randomised

I’m sure it does Pete, bright green or something...

 · 
Non Sequitur

Did I miss something?

 · 
SneakyPete

no, you did not.

3  · 
liberty bell

I watched Bohemian Rhapsody over the weekend. I thought it was good, not as bad as the reviewers said. 


Last night I watched the new Perry Mason and OMG so good.



Jul 1, 20 12:10 pm  · 
1  · 
archanonymous

I couldn't make it through Bohemian Rhapsody. But I think it had more to do with the setting... was a little tipsy and it was being projected onto a fabric screen outdoors which was rippling slightly in the breeze and I was getting pretty queasy.

1  · 
tduds

We're looking forward to starting Perry Mason soon. We've been watching Penny Dreadful, City of Angels, and it's 'meh' at best. I t seems like Perry Mason might be the show we were hoping City of Angels would be.

1  · 
SneakyPete

I'm watching Giri/Haji which is serviceable gangster TV series with good character acting. Definitely looking forward to getting to Dark Season 3. Dark is one of the best shows I have ever seen.

1  · 

Sneaky I started Dark last night. Disappointed it is dubbed, but it seems cool so far? I've only seen the first episode.

1  · 

It. Gets. Weird... Especially in season 3. And yes, the dubbing is awkward. I started with just subtitles so I had an accurate sense of what the performers really sounded like when I crossed over to dubbing.

1  · 

Might need to start a TV thread...

2  · 
SneakyPete

OH NO! Don't watch the dub! Read the subs so you can enjoy the actor's real voices.(to each their own). The story is complex, but the acting is SO GOOD.

3  · 

Yeah I will try to figure out how to watch the subtitles if that's an option, definitely. I'll have to ask my teenager how to make that happen - I barely know how to turn on the TV.

 · 

I lost interest in the show in the last season. There are big plot holes that the writers appear to 'cover things up' by making the plot really complex and convoluted.

 · 

It's easy. First you go in to settings... then click on options...then you'll change your preferences, but be sure to click on access first. To do that you'll have to adjust you locations, and make the general settings more specific...

1  · 

…and which of the four remote controls do I pick up to do this simple act? Or do I use my kid's X-box gaming thingey to control it?

1  · 

oculus headset

1  · 
Non Sequitur

Try the light dimmer switch. If that does not work, put the washer on delicate cycle and try again.  Works for me.


 · 

Happy Canada Day to all of you in, or hailing from, the Great White North.

Jul 1, 20 2:12 pm  · 
5  · 
Almosthip

Whoop! I would be home bathing in maple syrup but I am working today so I can visit one of the most beautiful places in my country the Okanagan Valley in BC this weekend.

 · 
Almosthip

You are all a bunch of hosers btw

 · 
Non Sequitur

Fantastic!

 · 

We have an extensive collection of Christmas music and every year without fail when I listen to Bob and Doug MacKenzie's version of 12 Days of Christmas I giggle uncontrollably.

 · 
citizen

Cheers to our Canadian brethren and sistren here on this day.

1  · 
citizen

Watch Norm MacDonald kill at the Canadian Screen Awards (the Candys) a few years back. (First 7 mins are best.)

1  · 
Almosthip

I suck at forums.....

Jul 1, 20 4:49 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

yours had many more pixels

 · 
Almosthip

I wanted to post a video ....

 · 
randomised

I saw, you also had Great White North up...but it was sharper than the one above, and now it's gone.

 · 
Almosthip

OH ....it was a different clip. I thought it didnt work

 · 

Headline alert on IFL Science:

There's Something of Great Value Forming Inside Uranus

Jul 2, 20 3:51 pm  · 
4  · 
Formerlyunknown

I suspect there are some people for whom that will not seem newsworthy, as they imagine it's their status quo.

2  · 
citizen

Ever since I accidentally swallowed that rare coin.

 · 
liberty bell

Spoiler: it’s diamonds. It rains diamonds on Uranus.

1  · 

Did you know it's pronounce ur-ah-niss and not your-anus? You do now. :)

 · 
wurdan freo



Happy 4th... :D

Jul 4, 20 1:52 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

A little Zappa to celebrate, congrats 'Merica!

Oh God I am the American Dream
With a spindle up my butt till it makes me scream

Jul 4, 20 3:38 pm  · 
 · 
liberty bell

Yes like every other bougie white family we watched  Hamilton last night. It’s so wonderful, so worth the hype! I’m grateful that my teen was able to see the actual production in Chicago on a theater club trip, but even just seeing it on tv it was so, so good. 


Sadly I lost 6 hours of work time yesterday due to a Windows update/Draftsight conflict. I’m trying to get my Quonset hut house design pricing set finished this weekend, so back to it now.



Jul 5, 20 9:58 am  · 
1  · 

My wife was able to score some amazing tickets to see it when it came through our city, and we thought it was amazing. But it adds another level to see the original cast.

1  · 
SneakyPete

We were lucky enough to see it live (not the original cast) and it was amaaaaazing. I'll also leave you this. If you're interested in LMM's reaction, the video is on youtube. You might need to put up with Jimmy's dumb antics, but it's worth it.



1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

I had a chance to see this in previews, with original cast, and just couldn't get vacay changed.

1  · 
SneakyPete

Having seen it I would have skipped work. Before I saw it I would not have.

1  · 
Jaetten

I was learning French, given that we plan on moving to Canada. However I cannot help but follow my love for Scandinavia and want to live in Sweden. 

For the time being, we can go to Sweden by virtue of being in the EU and I can do the RIBA Studio course while in Sweden - less upheaval to our lives but my wife doesn't speak Swedish and thinks she'd struggle. Canada, there isn't really a need for her to learn French unless wanting to live in Quebec.

I am truly torn!

Jul 6, 20 5:47 am  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

This is a tough one. You don’t need to know french unless you’re moving to either quebec (mandatory) or the capital or if you’re planning on applying for Any government level jobs.

 · 
randomised
Non Sequitur

man, Sweden over qc any day.

 · 
Jaetten

I was planning to move to Sweden in 2012 before meeting my wife, so naturally, I was learning Swedish. I'll speak with her when she's home from work, that has been a worry for her. I've just been on their job shortage list, and architecture is listed.

 · 

Last Wednesday at 4pm . . . . 

Client:  I want to add an elevated mechanical screen structure to the outside of our building - right now it's butt ugly.

Boss:  That's easy!  No problem! 

Me:  Sure, let me start with a site analysis that area has some odd zoning requirements . . .

Boss:  Don't waste your time - no setbacks in that area and anything we do will improve the building - trust me the city will be fine with it.

Me:  Uh, ok.  ::sketches ideas out in front of client: 

Client:  Love it - build that one!

MEP:  Yeah that will work great

Structural:  Yeah that will be easy to do.

Me:  OK, let me check on few things first with the zoning . . . 

Boss:  Bah, just model it up and get everyone going on the CD's.

::Boss takes off for a weeks vacation::

::Owner takes off for a weeks vacation::

Today . .

Me:  I'm going to a zoning review anyways f*#k those guys. . . 

Turns out the property line is 20' closer than the building owner and the boss thought which won't leave enough room for the design the owner wants.  Also this addition will require a city planning hearing because of it's location in a zoning district which will take 2 months if we get the design to them by the 20th of this month.  

I just sent off an email to the boss and the owner with all the particulars of what I found.  This is going to be 'fun'.  



Jul 6, 20 5:30 pm  · 
2  · 
SneakyPete

You should be commended for your initiative and your knowledge. Do not hold your breath.

4  · 
archanonymous

zoning shmoning.

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

I love this story! I know the ending!

2  · 
Non Sequitur

Maybe not what you’d want to hear but I don’t think including the client in the last bit of correspondence is wise. Tell the PA who at first said there were no problems and let them deal with client. No point risking loosing a project/client by exposing a flaw.

2  · 

In normal circumstances I would agree. In this case the owner asked to be included in any design discussion and issues that might arise. Also the owner was adamant that the property line extended to to curb. I'm the PM / PA on the project. It's a small project so just one of the partners (boss) and myself on the job. Structural is our consultant and MEP was hired by the owner.

1  · 
Wood Guy

I have gone through similar situations several times, except I play both roles, and the boss's excitement to get designing often wins.

 · 
bklyntotfc

They should have listened to you, but I'm 200% with NS on this one, no way, no how should the client find this out at the same time as the boss. Admit it, you're understandably pissed they didn't listen to you in the first place, and wanted to show him/her up in front of the client

 · 

Nope. I'm secure enough in my abilities and self that I don't need to try and make others look bad to raise my own self esteem. I'm actually disappointed in myself for not politely pushing the need to do a zoning review before commencing a design - this is my fault and I said as much in my correspondence.   

At the owners request the boss wanted me to send a broad overview of everything to the owner as well - designs, coordination, issues, schedule, ect. The owner is very hands on and wants to be included in the entire process. Since the property line situation is a big constraint and will require the design to drastically change and extend the project schedule it was exactly the type of thing the owner wanted to know about and be involved in. I'm just frustrated how much this will complicate and slow down the project.

1  · 
joseffischer

Have dealt with this type of thing often before... people like to skip steps. Hold your ground, remind them that plenty of steps can be skipped before submitting to AHJs, but we eventually have to get back to them, and if it turns out there's bad news, we'll have wasted time. Only thing I would have done differently is getting to that zoning check earlier... but I get sometimes we're busy. Still haven't convinced principals to charge add services yet when the owners have been informed and request to go ahead. *shrug*

 · 

Got my surgery date for my gastric bypass. Come the end of August I’m gonna be dropping weight like Revit drops groups. 

Jul 6, 20 11:02 pm  · 
8  · 
Non Sequitur

Congrats. Where you been hiding lately?

 · 
citizen

Welcome back, Josh. I guess we'll be seeing more and less of you in the coming days.

 · 

"Where you been hiding lately?

Hiding out on Twitter until Balkins got the boot.

2  · 
Wood Guy

Congrats, Josh! Bypass or lapband? My aunt had bypass surgery 30 years ago and it has made a big difference for her.

 · 

Bypass. They actually won’t do lap and anymore as it was found to not be nearly as effective. Also, yes there was hiding from Balkins involved.

1  · 
5839

Balkins is back again. The latest iterations are trying to be stealthy.

 · 
Wood Guy

Josh, I didn't realize that. Best of luck!

 · 
Koww

why don't you just eat less?

 ·  7

Why don’t you just educate yourself on the various reasons people get bypass and why “just eat less” doesn’t work for a lot of people...including myself.

4  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Koww, why don't you think more, talk less?

5  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Wow. Something about this letter, and the follow-up strikes me as unbecoming of an FAIA.

Jul 7, 20 8:56 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

the response should be to re-render it hot pink.

1  · 
archanonymous

Post pictures of the proposed design please! (edit - oh missed it - is that the top image?)

 · 
Non Sequitur

Ed does not represent a firm with varied design portfolio. (https://kodet.com/work/)

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

I think the proposed is rather understated, nothing as garish as described.

 · 
archanonymous

i feel like you need to be an avowed classicist to write a letter like that, or you should be a really badass modern architect, of which mr kodet obviously isn't.

 · 
wurdan freo

wow... pretty lame... neighbors suck...

 · 
randomised

thanks for the gridded dots, now have a headache

 · 
Bench

Genuinely not seeing the problem with the design... the NIMBY's have extra time on their hands with the covid shutdowns.

 · 
citizen

Speaking of context...   Also, directly across the street and a big lawn is the Walker Art Center in Minneapolis.

Jul 7, 20 9:09 pm  · 
2  · 
atelier nobody

I'd be more sympathetic to Mr Kodet's argument if the character of the neighborhood hadn't already been raped by the faux English A&C mcmansion next door...

Jul 7, 20 9:20 pm  · 
2  · 
wurdan freo

you should make a revision that looks like this... all entrance... wait... where's the entrance?


Jul 8, 20 12:56 am  · 
2  · 
tduds

Now this is how you do itThe Vital Weirdness of Robert Venturi, the Most Influential ...

3  · 
citizen

SUTTLE!

 · 

The nosey neighbors in my CITY NEIGHBORHOOD somehow discovered my zoning application permit for 4 things and they're fighting me on all of them... And they've hired a lawyer (who has time for that).

1) a 400 square foot deck that creates a edge to edge front porch as well as a car port (my house is on the top/edge of a very steep hill... so the driveway goes into the basement and the 2nd/ground floor is unstable necessitating something that can be piered below the frost line).

2) a 200 square foot deck in the back of my home absolutely no one can see.

3) staining my current antique brick dark grey.

4) installing a gabion wall with decorative stacked stone.

Their claims?

(For note, my neighborhood is predominantly built between 1940-1965 and is mostly just mid-century and contemporary ranches with a few 1920s four squares.)

1/2) They claim the addition of an 600 square feet of outdoor space plus an additional covered parking space will adversely affect housing prices as no homes in my immediate zip code feature such amenities. 

3) A dark or black colored home is inconsistent with the 'historical accuracy / character of the neighborhood.'

4) They argue the same with gabion walls since everyone else has stacked stone or decorative cinder blocks...

Jul 8, 20 9:23 am  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

fuck em, who cares about the value of some other wanker's property. The market determines this.

 · 
randomised

their value might actually improve, depending on what goes on on that ginormous deck...

1  · 

"Neighborhood character" used to deny new construction is my least favorite phrase lately.

Jul 8, 20 4:23 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

This is a few years old but remains my go-to response to the "neighborhood character" argument. 

"Everything old was once new, and new things often provoke a backlash. We ought to be humble in believing that our opinions represent some timeless, objective truth, looking backwards or forwards. The same bungalows that seem to us quaint and charming were tacky and soulless to many of the people watching them be built; it seems more than possible that the new apartment buildings we vilify today will be thought of sentimentally by future generations who know them only as an important part of their city since they were born."

  http://cityobservatory.org/the-immaculate-conception-theory-of-your-neighborhoods-origins/

1  · 
Almosthip

No!!!!   ASTM E 815 is not equivalent to CAN/ULC S-115.  UGH.....I have to send out this email at least twice a week.  

Grumble... grumble.... stupid cheap a$$ ...grumble..... contractors.......grumble.....cheaping out on firestopping..... grumble grumble

Jul 8, 20 5:55 pm  · 
1  · 
  • ASTM E815: "Standard Test Method for Determination of Calcium Fluoride in Fluorspar by EDTA Complexometric Titrimetry" 
  • CAN/ULC S-115: "Standard Method of Fire Tests of Firestop Systems" 

You have people thinking these are equivalent twice weekly?!? You must work with some weird people.

 · 
Almosthip

Its contractors that think they can pick up any cheap fire spray and use it as a firestopping material

 · 
Almosthip

ASTM E814 - Standard Test Method for Fire Tests of Penetration Firestop Systems

1  · 
Almosthip

I typo'd

 · 

It's all good. Just messing with you. I don't envy you Canadians trying to keep contractors in line when it comes to the differences between UL and ULC testing and certifications.

2  · 
Almosthip7

Well if it’s good enough for America!! Lol

 · 
Non Sequitur

Sometimes, it’s a full time job just educating the contractor on UL =\= ULC during shop drawing submittals.

1  · 
Non Sequitur

AHip... not to rain hot garbage on your parade here... but E814 (aka UL1479) is an acceptable alternative testing standard when ULC S115 (and S101) is concerned. It's not easy to read, but burried in the XHEZ7 - Through-penetration Firestop Systems Certified for Canada guide, there is a line that identifies category XHEZ. This is a category for UL Through-penetration Firestop Systems and within that category's requirements is testing compliance with UL1479... therefore, although not technically an equivalent test, it is an acceptable alternative testing method.

 · 
Non Sequitur

edit: an alternative testing method that satisfies S115 in the specific application. You would need to make the same comparison for whatever category/system you're reviewing.

 · 
tintt

whoa whoa whoa guys, architects are just artists. Enough with all this technical crap. Stick to the crayolas.

3  · 
Non Sequitur

^have you ever tried to stuff crayolas in a HW gap as a makeshift firestop assembly?

1  · 
tintt

of course

 · 
Non Sequitur

It may not help with smoke or fire, but at least it'll make for some pinterest happy pictures if the even of a fire:

DIY: Crayon Melting Art - YouTube

 · 
Almosthip

This was from my local AHJ 

"Underwriters Laboratories (United States), CUL mark. Only tests performed to the CAN/ULC S115 Standard after the SCC Canadian accreditation date of October 14 1994 will be accepted. Extrapolations from United States of America ASTM E-814 tests are NOT ACCEPTABLE. ASTM E-814 test methods do not required a hose stream on assemblies up to 1 hour, the hose stream test is a mandatory requirement of the CAN/ULC S115 test method. "

 · 
Non Sequitur

I would put money down that your AHJ does not grasp the whole picture.

edit.  unless you actually require hose-testing as per a code requirement.  hose performance, I believe, is seldom required in my code (OBC).

 · 
SneakyPete

The hose stream test: comically misunderstood for over 30 years.

1  · 
Non Sequitur

funny thing (well, I think it's funny), we used to have a section of our spec template that required shop drawing submittals of firestop systems to show full compliance with F, FT, FH, FTH ratings equal to the FRR of the assembly. It's quite difficult to do that and apparently was in our spec for a few years before I came across it and no one before me bothered to read it or check shops for compliance. I removed that clause since our code only cares for FT.

 · 
Almosthip

I just put "Caulk and seal with Hilti FS One firestop sealant or an alternate firestop material conforming to to CAN/ULC-S115 testing & FT rating" on everything smaller than 2" and call it a day

 · 
Non Sequitur

We have a similar note without being prescriptive but we instead reference our code section. We also request submittals of products prior to application anyways so that's when I'll flag those that don't comply. Unless you have a specific need to hose performance... then don't ruin an opportunity to educate your AHJ.

 · 
wurdan freo

Pretty sure its WTF

 · 
joseffischer

This was my favorite archinect chain of comments in a while, thanks guys

1  · 

Do not, I repeat, DO NOT go to work for a company advertising for a "grasshopper wizard". 


Jul 9, 20 10:56 am  · 
 · 
archanonymous

hahahaha. they burn through staff so quickly.

1  · 
JLC-1

all they do is crochet architecture?

 · 
randomised

I first wanted to * and say they crochet statues and installations but since those always leak it must be architecture.

 · 
archanonymous

hahaha. i like the idea that the difference between "architecture" and "Architecture" is "Does it leak?"

1  · 
Jaetten

So after many emails and calls...

Nästa år, ska vi bo i göteborg! Till Sverige! Pang På!

On the water, feet up in my boat!

Which leaves me three educational options; stay on RIBA Studio*, Direct entry into 3rd year Pt1 at a local Uni then just Pt2 on RIBA Studio, or, study at Chalmers, KTH, Lund, or Umeå. Too many choices! And finally, I need to improve my Swedish to a professional competency.

*can be completed in any EU/EEA nation

Jul 9, 20 1:26 pm  · 
 · 
Koww

maybe we are flattening the wrong curve


Jul 10, 20 3:11 am  · 
 ·  1
atelier nobody

Nope, we definitely need more surreality, not less.

 · 
JLC-1

it explains some of the issues in this forum


Jul 10, 20 3:24 pm  · 
 · 
Jaetten

35 million Canadians consume as much as food as 163 million animals, sounds like Canada is the problem?

 · 
Non Sequitur

Canada is rarely the problem... but we do have lots of beavers to feed.

1  · 
Jaetten

Haha, Bears > Beavers, problem solved?

 · 
randomised

And all people get out of that transaction is shit 'n cuddles.

 · 
curtkram

put down the putine canada. save some for my dogs.

 · 
Non Sequitur

POUTINE! Cheese curds are sacred up here.

2  · 
Jaetten

You've just reminded me! That's on my to do list for a midweek lunch!

 · 
Jaetten

When you ask a yes or no question and get a 300 page life story...

Jul 11, 20 4:16 pm  · 
 · 
archiwutm8

Gensler wants to hire part one qualified or better with a list of required skills as apprentices.


So instead of hiring and paying them the part 1 salary you're going to pay them lunch money and travel costs?


Pretty unethical to me.


The apprentice scheme was for people who haven't attended university or higher education to learn skills. I'm fuming that they'll do this.

Jul 12, 20 8:23 am  · 
 ·  1
Jaetten

Was that the part 2 apprenticeship position?

 · 
Afriendlyguy

Hi Guys, I recently post a portfolio review thread, but no where I can find my thread or check how many comments I had

Jul 12, 20 11:20 pm  · 
 · 
citizen

Here's your history... does this help?


 · 
Afriendlyguy

I see, somehow they dont approve my thread, so sad :( Thank Citizen

 · 
citizen

Email the editors; they may have more info for you.

 · 
Afriendlyguy

Gotcha, thanks!

 · 

Today I listened to an architect smack down a contractor over price gouging. It was satisfying on the one hand, but also frustrating. I don't like aggression. Why can't everyone just be honest, and if you've made a mistake, accept it graciously rather than get defensive?

Reminds me of something I thought while driving on Sunday: did we really expect USians to wear face masks when only a tiny minority of us are willing to use a turn signal?

Jul 14, 20 1:54 pm  · 
2  · 
SneakyPete

Turn signals, seat belts, face masks, life jackets, sunscreen, etc. etc. etc. Shit, we've had the technology to prevent limb loss on a table saw (a very common construction injury) for decades and it STILL isn't required. If you found a country on rebellion and a lack of consideration of human life is this what you get?

3  · 

I'm sure I'll jinx myself for saying this but . . . I've been fortunate and never had to raise my voice to a contractor or consultant. I've been in a few arguments that could have devolved into a shouting match but there is just something about my teddy bear personality combined with my 6'-3", 250 pound frame that seems to keep other people from getting uppity with me. :)

1  · 

That is indeed a good combination, Chad.

 · 
bowling_ball

I've literally threatened physical violence (twice) against the same contractor. Which is funny because they then hired me to design their new home. As much as I'm a white collar professional, I learned a lot growing up in a blue collar environment - sometimes the threat of violence can solve a lot.

 ·  1
Almosthip

I've walked out of a site meeting, it was oddly satisfying.

 · 
archi_dude

Sneaky is right. We need to make a list of everything with the remote possibility of harm and destroy it or outlaw it. Or if we could mandate everyone to stay inside, brilliant!

 · 
SneakyPete

Brilliant is not a word I would use to describe anything about you, archi_stooge.

 · 

Brilliant is not a word I would use to describe ANYONE on this site. Face it, if we where really good at what we do we wouldn't have the time or inclination to be here.  We'd all be too busy with those fabled 'architecture groupies' ;)

 · 
Non Sequitur

Is brilliant code for "covered with stripper glitter"?

 · 
Non Sequitur

bowling, violence (or threat of) is never the answer. I won't get into into an argument with the GC (never with the trades) unless I know I am correct.

 · 

NS - is that normal stripper glitter or the Canadian stuff?

 · 
randomised

mostly the threat of violence is an outpour of frustration where words or logic don't work anymore...quite immature in my opinion.

Once the owner of the office I worked at banged his hand on the table really loud during a discussion/meeting with the client and started yelling (a powerful developer and builder in one, one of the biggest in my country), the entire office could hear it. He got his way for whatever was so important, the colour of a balustrade or something but never worked for that client again.

 · 
Non Sequitur

Chad, imperial size glitter is bigger.

1  · 

There is a euphemism in there somewhere. . .

1  · 
Almosthip

Glitter is regional, the Quebec glitter is extra sticky, where as the glitter in BC is made from Hemp. Nova Scotia glitter smells fishy, where as the Alberta glitter works the best :)

 · 
SneakyPete

ironic rando since you yell the loudest with the least of value to say around here since jla and ricky made themselves scarce.

1  ·  1
Non Sequitur

Alberta glitter is oily. not a fan.

 · 
liberty bell

I heard a nice COVID/glitter analogy: you are crafting at a table with 9 other moms (drag queens/kindergarteners/protest sign makers/whatever). One mom is using glitter. How many projects at the table have glitter on them?

1  · 
Non Sequitur

^ tricked question donna. The real answer is all 9 PLUS every other project each of those moms will ever make. So, the real answer is an infinite number of projects will have glitter.

2  · 

Rando - I don't disagree about a threat of violence being an outpour of frustration where words or logic don't work anymore


I think people tend to threaten violence a lot more and not have the ability or determination to back it up.


I've been lucky/ unlucky enough to have only been in six cases of physical violence in my life.  Each time it was justified however each instant will stay with me for the rest of my life.  


Oh and US glitter is the best.  'Murica!  


1  · 

F--- glitter! We normally tape holiday cards we receive to the fridge/pantry door/whatever to be admired throughout the season ... but if it has glitter on it, it goes straight in the trash. Don't infect my house with that crap.

 · 
randomised

Are you bored, looking for a new victim to bully PettySneak?

 · 
Non Sequitur

Hey now Rando... this is a peaceful discussion about stripper glitter.

1  · 
JLC-1

stripper glitter was a really good scene in blade runner

 · 
randomised

I know Non, sorry, no clue why SmearyPete is bullying me.

 · 

Shut up Rando - GLITTER or GTFO.

1  · 
randomised

glitter all the way


 · 
SneakyPete

Now I'm a bully. Need a safe space, rando?

 ·  1
randomised

Yes, please go away

 · 
SneakyPete

Aww, rando.

 · 

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