Ok, calm down here. Nothing got sent off afterall, at the 4:00 hour I talked the team into putting some more thought into it. All that drama for nothing.
wow, sounds like some of us are having a shitty time lately. nothing too depressing here...but i am looking forward to the new year. 2006 has been stunningly bland...maybe i'll even break out some champagne tonight
and on an unrelated note, is it just me...or are weekends getting longer?
funny, i think the better way to go about this is to encourage the incorridgible[sp]. agree with her, don't suggest different ideas, just say hey great idea whenever she suggests something. then when shit stew blows up, and it will, she'll be left there to explain how this all got fucked.
if you're a few years out of college, should you take college activities off your resume?
I feel like I should, because they're not things I've done since college...
however, they were interesting, and I feel like i haven't done anything of interest since then to put down, other than my own hobbies (which i already have on there btw).
is it retarded to put on that i was in a mentorship program in college? it wasn't an honor, anyone could do it if they wanted. argh.
One of my step-sisters used to be a professional water skiier during the summers when she was in college. While she now has years of international financial experience, she still finds a way to squeeze in the water skiing line into her resume.
If it's something you're really proud of or really sets you apart from the pack, I'd say - keep it on there, myriam.
DCA....I agree with you...I once sat thru an interview..and the guy ask me what I did to keep so tan cause he saw I had spent most of my life in an office enviroment. I told him I had just spent the last month rafting the Colorado and Green Rivers in Utah. It clinched the interview, hired me on the spot.
yeah, i'd say it's good to squeeze anything special in there whenever you can...not only does it add some personality to your resume, you never know when one of the screeners might also have a similar talent/interest and that might be enough to get the foot in the door. keep it succinct. and the older it is then probably the more special the accomplishment needs to be, i.e., if you won a braverman grant for a play that you wrote then it might not matter that you were only in the 9th grade, that's impressive enough that you could carry it for life and probably always squeeze it in somewhere...provided you have done a few things since then. also, i'd probably omit things that you used to do, i.e., you used to be a figure skater but haven't laced up the skates in five years now. if you're not even currently interested in it, then why bother?
interviews are another matte and you obviously have a bit of time to expand on your activities and present yourself as a more well-rounded individual. once upon a time i had an interiveiw where i was a bit surprised that the i was asked about what i did in my free time...i told him that i like watching football and at the time (maybe february 2001?) the xfl had just debuted so i was telling him all about how that was my new favorite thing. he didn't care for the xfl so much because vegas wouldn't touch it. and his reasoning wa that if there was no action on the game, then why bother watching it? i honestly cannot believe that i got a job offer out of that interview. go figure.
The happiest thought I had all day was, "hrm.. I guess we might not need to get the lawyers involved after all..."
Ah gawd DCA that is so depressing. But it also made me smile in recognition - that is definitely indicative of a crappy day! Sorry it's so tough for you right now.
Glad you prevailed on the premature submittal, Strawbeary.
Sorry to bitch about my partner issues here and thanks for your thoughtful words everyone. We are definitely in a re-defining phase of the relationship, but I'm optimistic (for now) that it will be better.
I just bought a humidifier for our bedroom today - the cold dry air has me waking up with a splitting headache every day. Because of this, I haven't been drinking much, cause I've generally been feeling like crap. But tonight I'm going to open the eggnog I bought and spike it liberally with rum. Cheers!
thanks for the tips, yous guys. puddles that is a horrid answer to give in an interview. i hope you were at least wearing pants at the time! (to be fair, his response is even more horrid...)
meh, there are just two college activities i did that i'm clinging to. one because i really enjoyed it, although it only exists at my college so obviously i haven't done it at all since the day i graduated, but it vaguely pertains to building shit; the other because it was a mentorship program and i discovered i am a huge nerd and liked encouraging the young'uns. i guess i still do that (or try to?) via archinect but that's not the type of thing one puts on one's resume.
I recently got an invite to join the editorial side of the 'nect... any pros or cons as to shedding my nome de 'nect and stepping into the editorial role? does this mean i'd be able to edit my posts after making them?
this may mean that I can't post so much from the office:(
why didnt i get this invite? its been my life long dream of mine to be on the archinect editorial staff. i guess my dreams don't mean much. i guess this dream now resides on the vado dream trash heap of dreams along with... first baseman for the cubs, rockstar, movie director, screenwriter, novelist, starchitect...thanks archinect.
tk, that sounds like a compliment to me.
the ed. group will certainly benefit by having someone of your intelligence and background (LA, Arch). Heatherring needs backup, stat!
plus, you can keep your 2nd name, ex: abracadabra and Orhan A.
...
vado, i think you're over-qualified for an editorial staff position.
this gigantic response box is grrrreeeeeeaaaaaaat!
So just got out of a design meeting this morning where we talked about what works, etc. It was a great meeting, but at the end as we were sweeping up our papers and books all excited to get back to work to personally explore the ideas we generated, the intern decides she is going to delegate the tasks! Surprise surprise, I get to design corridors, restrooms, elevators, mechanical and electrical, trash and parking! Why? Because the plans I work on HAVE THESE ROOMS and I have a jump start! She is going to hand sketch perspectives of the wonderful interior spaces and develop the "architecture". Principal was there and he even nodded in agreement. He totally just thinks she's cute. (He thinks I'm cute too of course, but I don't attempt to get away with that crap.) I also am learning quite a bit about him, like he will agree with most anything anybody says, which means both of us. Surprisingly, last week, the principal privately told me that MY plan was looking great and he was really happy with it. I am sure he told her the same thing, this is when he told us to combine the good aspects of both, which is what I started to do before she declared her plan was to be sent off to the client. I can take this compliment humbly. She takes it as I WON! MY PLAN WON! I'M THE DESIGNER! I AM THE MASTER! NOBODY ELSE TOUCHES THESE DRAWINGS OR INFILTRATES THIER DIRTY CONCEPTS INTO IT!
So in this meeting, of course I brought up some areas in her plan that just didn't work and did some hard questioning. The principal and 3rd team member agreed with me on many aspects, like, yeh, incorporate that or make it more like what she (I) said. This girl retorts, but then we move on to another topic and there was never the definitive conclusion that she needs, yes you need to change this and this is how. She is so inflexible in that you can propose a suggestion to swap a room for another room, or move a wall 2'-3' and she would consider it, but to make a suggestion that involves more than 3 steps is just too much for her. Isn't that what architects should do best? Think compoundly? It isn't drawing pretty, or cadding ADA bathrooms, or egress diagrams or square foot crunches, or copying and pasting historical styles (which unfortunately we have to do in this job). It isn't cut and dry, black and white, to me at least. Honestly, in many apects of the plan, she found a similar space in an old project, and brought it in as an absolute criteria, then tetrissed the whole plan around these blocks. That's cool for starting out with, but as a design concept to chisel into stone, its failing. It's a one-liner and pretty fucking flat.
I am incompatible with this method of problem solving and space planning. I lose. I was so excited about this project, have so many great ideas. So much passion. I'm going to end up getting hurt.
"tetrissed" ... that is AWESOME. My fave word of 2006 is found! How usefully delicious.
On another note, stick a tack on her chair. While she's out for the rest of the day with a bleeding ass, rearrange the project how you want it and take it to the client.
Also, your principle needs to learn how to be a leader and a manager. AKA a Principle.
I think you should ask to be moved to another project, and use your design skills there. Give up on this one. If they don't want you to move, say you are thinking of quitting as an alternate to changing projects. They will remember quickly why you are valuable.
i agree myriam... TETRISSED is definitely the best new word of 2006... i can see the plan in my head... could be cool if done on purpose, but not if executed by strawbeary's nemesis...
There is more than one way to skin a cat - I am keen on betadinesutures suggestion. Let her do her thing, allow her to take responsibility, then watch things tetris and collapse... There will be more projects, just take care of your side to show how things are really done.
And also, how cute is this girl that she gets away with this? Surely not cuter than you are?
And what is the experience level difference between you and her? I keep wondering why you don't just say, "no, we're not going to do that." as any person of authority might.
just playing devil's advocate here (why do I feel like I just stepped into the 'phrases that make you cringe' thread?) but I like to think that everybody can learn something from everyone they meet, no matter what. This nemesis of Strawbeary's seems to have a knack for getting her way, having her ideas realized. Very few of us don't want more of that. How 'bout if Strawbeary figures out her methods and shares them with us all? Not as much fan as hating her, but at least we'll all benefit, right? Hell, we can even still hate her if we want!
If you just look the other way and let her crash, you're selling short yourself, your firm, and the client.
I'm a believer in the deep end. I'm not necessarily advocating something sinister - but that if this person is stepping up to the plate and asking for responsibility, then let her have it and see how she goes. I think from what Strawbeary has said, that she has been more than helpful and ready to provide advice and help - but this has been ignored. So, let her have it. She can succeed or fail on her own merits. Just keep the communication flowing.
I worked on a project where I was just another drafting monkey, cause the firm felt they had to bring in a guy with more experience to manage the project. It was a municipal building so he was in charge of all of the floor plans and the elevations so of course was in total control of grid line locations. There was a partner in charge of the design aspects of the office and another incharge of the production aspects of the office. So off we went down the road a group of four of us, being lead by the blind. Changes kept coming day in and day out mostly directed by Mr. Project Manager. So the obediant drafting monkeys just pushed forward, until the project really started to come undone. Oh we all complained to the Production Partner about all of the changes, because the design was not settled or thought thru. It seemed the partners never wanted to listen to the troops. So we continue down the road and one day everyone realized the project was in deep trouble as far as deadlines were concerned. So the Production Partner, says he will be taking over the elevations and sections of the building and were working away one night and in the next cubie...I hear OH SHIT!.....and then alot of other things people usually don't say unless they are really upset. Then it gets real quiet. Next day walk into the office and the Project Manager is gone. We have a first thing office meeting, and he tells us while working on the elevations he dicovered all of the grid lines are not perpendicular to the floor plan, the whole fricking building was drawn out of Square, not by a little bit but by a whole lot. Then everyone chimed in.....and I recall one woman saying...he was just a nasty man....always grabbing himself in front of me....
i love my team we are a good team. we laugh and work well together. we have a lot of meetings. we are not sticking tacks on each others chairs. no bleeding asses here.
rationalist. good question. I guess it goes back to the office culture and management. I have hinted before that the principal will tell any of us that whatever we are doing is awesome. He is a very enthusiastic, optimistic individual. He is also careless. And diplomatic - by that I mean avoids confrontation and "plays" people. He gives each and every one of us all the responsibility in the world and believes in our abilities probably more than he should. In turn, we REALLY lack in quality control and heirarchy, everyone just tends to do what they want. We don't do redlines for example. At all, ever. Nobody tells anybody what to do. This makes a great boss in many ways. Other ways, it is frustrating and difficult, I have talked about this a little with older co-workers, they don't really think it works either, but it's not talked about much. The principal is VERY laid back and takes the approach of "it will all work out in the end, don't get your panties in a bunch." (Which I need to keep in mind myself sometimes.) --- So when she pointed out that I had dead end corridors in my plan, and principal agrees, she takes this as I don't know what I am doing and declares my plan wrong. I point out dead end corridors in her plan in front of principal and this intern, principal replies with a no-big-deal tude that it can be fixed (he's right). Basically he operates under the premise that no one can screw up anything that he can't fix, which I don't really agree with.
What does that mean? Say girly thinks we need it this way, I think otherwise and vocalize, she will either do it her way anyways, or run up to mr. principal and get him to agree with her, to which she reports to me as final.
I could do the same, run to him everytime I need an idea confirmed. He would agree with me too. But I don't, I don't want to bother him with this stuff. He's busy. Sometimes I do.
Conclusion: if she doesn't like what I say, she will get the principal to agree with her, which is pretty darn easy. He knows we (I) will fix anything later and is too busy to really care and is more interested in fostering positivity. Meanwhile it's going to her head.
We all know that many instances of architecture really can go this way or that and we can all rip each other's designs apart and rather than right or wrong there are approaches and methods and revisions. As FRO mentions, she knows how to get it her way, she has the savvy and the politics down. If most people attempted this approach, they would be shut down by the principal. Not gonna happen.
Not to get deep into psychology or anything, but I have been lead to believe that she is one of these types who has always been the best at everything, is successful at everything she attempts and has never been told otherwise (aren't we all that way? ha ha.) Anyways, she is very competitive and won't take no for an answer. Experience difference: about 4 years, so not a whole lot, but enough. She has 1 year, I have 5.
On getting switched to a new project. This is how it goes: Small office. Very small. Not a lot of projects flying in the door. I am very honored to have been put on this project. The last project that me (and her) were on that sucked so bad, other co-workers have been put on that project after we got this one and are now fixing all those silly boo boos. I feel sorriest for them and don't want to be in that spot. Me and this girl were chosen for this project because I must say there is a little favortism working in our direction (the cute girls get the fun parts of the good projects, it's true). The senior-most guys here actually get the crappiest projects. Sorry guys. I'd be a fool to take myself out of this good position.
So this person effects me more than my co-workers. Why? First I sit next to her, we can, and do, chat all day long. We work on most every project together, and often exclusively. This additude infiltrates into our non-architectural discussions A LOT and is a large part of my description of her personality. We argue about everything. One day we were talking about the liquor store down the street. I said it was expensive. She agreed, but that she loved how the wine section was arranged. Puzzled, I asked, "How's that?" "Well, by region, of course." I say, "Oh, well that's how they usually organize wine departments, isn't it?" "NYHUT-UH!" "UH-HUH". EVERY conversation, architectural or not, goes something like this. One day I had some frozen custard, she asked me what custard was. I said it was ice cream. She insists there must be a difference, I agree maybe there is, but don't know what it is. She says maybe custard has eggs? I say possibly, but ice cream has eggs too. After a moment of thinking she declares that LIGHT ice cream has NO eggs and therefore I am wrong! (I am not sure if light ice cream has eggs or not. I give up.) She wins and turns triumphantly back to her desk. Nevermind that we still don't know what custard is. We have had a million similar conversations, dealing in every topic known to man, smog, Lent, care of houseplants, corn nuts, pronunciation of foreign words, you name it. The conversations turn to competitions and I will "lose". Back to the professional moments, I am the easiest for her to challenge, because of all of the above proximety. She asserts herself against me as it is easy to compare us, doing so many parallel activities and in a way, being quite similar.
Believe it or not, I am still trying to salvage this relationship and learn something from it. I hope she learns too. What I know I cannot do is CHANGE her. I must change our relationship. My husband used to be a counselor and has his degree in psych, he reminds me constantly that I cannot change her.
Staw....you should ask her if she has Toe Jamb? See how she reacts....then maybe just maybe she will learn you really don't give a rats ass about carrying on....fruitless conversations.
stop being so competitve with this girl and focus on the work (as vado indirectly suggests)...ok so what if she's a smart aleck and knows trivial shit like custard/eggs/ice cream...you gotta let little bullshit like that slide and not think of it as her attempting to make you look stupid...
maybe she's also right on some aspects of the design...so she's right, so what? don't get caught up on the psychology (what she's thinking after she's right, etc...)...that's gonna drive you nuts...
A wise fellow archinector once said, "just say, 'I guess so', which neither confirms or denies what (s)he is saying". I think it was Katze. You should try this because it sounds like my roommate.
Actually, could you PM me her phone number? For real, I think the two of them would be perfect together.....
what does it take to be competitive? Does it take 2 people? I don't have this problem with anybody else. I never feel beat down and exhausted when I have design dialougue with other colleauges, and there is never a winner and loser.
Honestly, I want to look candidly at my role in this. Sometimes she IS right, and I am OK with that. She's not an idiot, she actually has talent, I can admit that. I ask her for her opinion all the time, and lots of time I take it.
To tie some more things together. God save me if this comes back to haunt me for divulging too much personal info. We have this wellness suite (independent living) that includes pool, salon, fitness, massage, sauna, lockers etc. Her idea is to get the fitness+ up above the pool so you can look down on the pool whilst on the treadmill. She belongs to a gym that has this and she loves it. Great idea. We all love it. So the wellness suite needs 2 levels to get this effect. But people using the wellness suite should be able to use the fitness or massage area upstairs and then the lockers or pool downstairs without leaving the fitness suite to use the nearby public elevator/stairs outside of the wellness suite (whilst in bathing suit or gym wear). I point this out. Instead of reflecting on the idea that drove the decision and reconsidering, she adds a convenience stair and elevator inside the two-story 2,500 s.f. wellness suite. During today's meeting, while everyone was cooing over the 2 level idea, I ask if it warrants the cost and square footage to get this effect, and propose that while it is a neat effect, does it fit this space? What other things can we do to make this place great? Principal agrees (doesn't seem to want to, doesn't want to smash this great idea, feels bad). I'm watching him, nodding his head at me, but she is talking over it all, reminding of us how she has designed a 2 story space.
What do you think we have at the end?
It's kinda like our residential clients that come with a picture of a living room with a pass thru and step down from the kitchen and a picture of a kitchen with a peninsula and bar and tells us she wants both. Maybe that didn't come out right. It's what I mean by tetrissing.
Strawbeary – I found this article "how to cope with jerks at work". See if it gives you any advice or inspiration on how to deal with her. I hope it helps.
S- just wait for the VE phase when all the bids come back way over budget - then that extra stair/mezzanine can get the axe (along with all those other frivoulous bits) can easily save $50k by simplifying framing/no handrail/less sprinklers/et cetera. keep on :)
Try pointing out to her that fat people HATE this gym configuration, and it cuts down on pool use by a lot. My gym has this, and it is the #2 reason I don't use the pool, though I love to swim. The #1 reason is that the absurd amount of chlorine they dump in the water makes my eyes hurt for two days afterwards, but that's out of the architect's hands, so we'll focus on reason #2 today.
Thread Central
Ok, calm down here. Nothing got sent off afterall, at the 4:00 hour I talked the team into putting some more thought into it. All that drama for nothing.
wow, sounds like some of us are having a shitty time lately. nothing too depressing here...but i am looking forward to the new year. 2006 has been stunningly bland...maybe i'll even break out some champagne tonight
and on an unrelated note, is it just me...or are weekends getting longer?
vado – your "rags to riches" friends story would have kicked butt – shame on him for not inviting you - or LB!!!
maybe she needs to see the Elephant Thong!
funny, i think the better way to go about this is to encourage the incorridgible[sp]. agree with her, don't suggest different ideas, just say hey great idea whenever she suggests something. then when shit stew blows up, and it will, she'll be left there to explain how this all got fucked.
Yes, it seems to have been a rough year-end for a lot of people here.
The happiest thought I had all day was, "hrm.. I guess we might not need to get the lawyers involved after all..."
I miss having a reason to be optimistic....
Hey guys, quick question:
if you're a few years out of college, should you take college activities off your resume?
I feel like I should, because they're not things I've done since college...
however, they were interesting, and I feel like i haven't done anything of interest since then to put down, other than my own hobbies (which i already have on there btw).
is it retarded to put on that i was in a mentorship program in college? it wasn't an honor, anyone could do it if they wanted. argh.
One of my step-sisters used to be a professional water skiier during the summers when she was in college. While she now has years of international financial experience, she still finds a way to squeeze in the water skiing line into her resume.
If it's something you're really proud of or really sets you apart from the pack, I'd say - keep it on there, myriam.
DCA....I agree with you...I once sat thru an interview..and the guy ask me what I did to keep so tan cause he saw I had spent most of my life in an office enviroment. I told him I had just spent the last month rafting the Colorado and Green Rivers in Utah. It clinched the interview, hired me on the spot.
yeah, i'd say it's good to squeeze anything special in there whenever you can...not only does it add some personality to your resume, you never know when one of the screeners might also have a similar talent/interest and that might be enough to get the foot in the door. keep it succinct. and the older it is then probably the more special the accomplishment needs to be, i.e., if you won a braverman grant for a play that you wrote then it might not matter that you were only in the 9th grade, that's impressive enough that you could carry it for life and probably always squeeze it in somewhere...provided you have done a few things since then. also, i'd probably omit things that you used to do, i.e., you used to be a figure skater but haven't laced up the skates in five years now. if you're not even currently interested in it, then why bother?
interviews are another matte and you obviously have a bit of time to expand on your activities and present yourself as a more well-rounded individual. once upon a time i had an interiveiw where i was a bit surprised that the i was asked about what i did in my free time...i told him that i like watching football and at the time (maybe february 2001?) the xfl had just debuted so i was telling him all about how that was my new favorite thing. he didn't care for the xfl so much because vegas wouldn't touch it. and his reasoning wa that if there was no action on the game, then why bother watching it? i honestly cannot believe that i got a job offer out of that interview. go figure.
Ah gawd DCA that is so depressing. But it also made me smile in recognition - that is definitely indicative of a crappy day! Sorry it's so tough for you right now.
Glad you prevailed on the premature submittal, Strawbeary.
Sorry to bitch about my partner issues here and thanks for your thoughtful words everyone. We are definitely in a re-defining phase of the relationship, but I'm optimistic (for now) that it will be better.
I just bought a humidifier for our bedroom today - the cold dry air has me waking up with a splitting headache every day. Because of this, I haven't been drinking much, cause I've generally been feeling like crap. But tonight I'm going to open the eggnog I bought and spike it liberally with rum. Cheers!
cheers, lb!
thanks for the tips, yous guys. puddles that is a horrid answer to give in an interview. i hope you were at least wearing pants at the time! (to be fair, his response is even more horrid...)
meh, there are just two college activities i did that i'm clinging to. one because i really enjoyed it, although it only exists at my college so obviously i haven't done it at all since the day i graduated, but it vaguely pertains to building shit; the other because it was a mentorship program and i discovered i am a huge nerd and liked encouraging the young'uns. i guess i still do that (or try to?) via archinect but that's not the type of thing one puts on one's resume.
maybe i'll just take off the mentorship bit.
Thanks for the smile, liberty bell. Cheers!
Tomorrow night is our office holiday party (yes, a Tuesday - wtf?) Our office likes its alcohol.
And I have a 9 am trailer meeting on Wednesday morning. It's giving me a hangover headache already!
friday is our office party- lunch, presentations, silly diagrams, beverages?
lb- can you discuss in the 'gotta firm' thread, how/why you choose your partner and lessons learned?
tk, thanks for your life update above, I enjoyed reading it.
I did make an overlong response to the question about going into partnership with a friend - did you want more?
lb- opps, i missed that post. I'll go find it.
I recently got an invite to join the editorial side of the 'nect... any pros or cons as to shedding my nome de 'nect and stepping into the editorial role? does this mean i'd be able to edit my posts after making them?
this may mean that I can't post so much from the office:(
Go for it, tk - you'd be a wonderful addition.
why didnt i get this invite? its been my life long dream of mine to be on the archinect editorial staff. i guess my dreams don't mean much. i guess this dream now resides on the vado dream trash heap of dreams along with... first baseman for the cubs, rockstar, movie director, screenwriter, novelist, starchitect...thanks archinect.
tk, that sounds like a compliment to me.
the ed. group will certainly benefit by having someone of your intelligence and background (LA, Arch). Heatherring needs backup, stat!
plus, you can keep your 2nd name, ex: abracadabra and Orhan A.
...
vado, i think you're over-qualified for an editorial staff position.
this gigantic response box is grrrreeeeeeaaaaaaat!
Yeah, but what are you supposed to do with it. The old one got bigger as needed, right?
So here I am at the bottom of the big box. Another step and I'll....
.....have to scroll. Oh no!
I love the new microlinks at the bottom:
'top of page'
'previous page'
'discussion index'
So just got out of a design meeting this morning where we talked about what works, etc. It was a great meeting, but at the end as we were sweeping up our papers and books all excited to get back to work to personally explore the ideas we generated, the intern decides she is going to delegate the tasks! Surprise surprise, I get to design corridors, restrooms, elevators, mechanical and electrical, trash and parking! Why? Because the plans I work on HAVE THESE ROOMS and I have a jump start! She is going to hand sketch perspectives of the wonderful interior spaces and develop the "architecture". Principal was there and he even nodded in agreement. He totally just thinks she's cute. (He thinks I'm cute too of course, but I don't attempt to get away with that crap.) I also am learning quite a bit about him, like he will agree with most anything anybody says, which means both of us. Surprisingly, last week, the principal privately told me that MY plan was looking great and he was really happy with it. I am sure he told her the same thing, this is when he told us to combine the good aspects of both, which is what I started to do before she declared her plan was to be sent off to the client. I can take this compliment humbly. She takes it as I WON! MY PLAN WON! I'M THE DESIGNER! I AM THE MASTER! NOBODY ELSE TOUCHES THESE DRAWINGS OR INFILTRATES THIER DIRTY CONCEPTS INTO IT!
So in this meeting, of course I brought up some areas in her plan that just didn't work and did some hard questioning. The principal and 3rd team member agreed with me on many aspects, like, yeh, incorporate that or make it more like what she (I) said. This girl retorts, but then we move on to another topic and there was never the definitive conclusion that she needs, yes you need to change this and this is how. She is so inflexible in that you can propose a suggestion to swap a room for another room, or move a wall 2'-3' and she would consider it, but to make a suggestion that involves more than 3 steps is just too much for her. Isn't that what architects should do best? Think compoundly? It isn't drawing pretty, or cadding ADA bathrooms, or egress diagrams or square foot crunches, or copying and pasting historical styles (which unfortunately we have to do in this job). It isn't cut and dry, black and white, to me at least. Honestly, in many apects of the plan, she found a similar space in an old project, and brought it in as an absolute criteria, then tetrissed the whole plan around these blocks. That's cool for starting out with, but as a design concept to chisel into stone, its failing. It's a one-liner and pretty fucking flat.
I am incompatible with this method of problem solving and space planning. I lose. I was so excited about this project, have so many great ideas. So much passion. I'm going to end up getting hurt.
"tetrissed" ... that is AWESOME. My fave word of 2006 is found! How usefully delicious.
On another note, stick a tack on her chair. While she's out for the rest of the day with a bleeding ass, rearrange the project how you want it and take it to the client.
Also, your principle needs to learn how to be a leader and a manager. AKA a Principle.
I think you should ask to be moved to another project, and use your design skills there. Give up on this one. If they don't want you to move, say you are thinking of quitting as an alternate to changing projects. They will remember quickly why you are valuable.
i agree myriam... TETRISSED is definitely the best new word of 2006... i can see the plan in my head... could be cool if done on purpose, but not if executed by strawbeary's nemesis...
straw, would you just bitch slap her already!
a TETRISSED elevation by MVRDV in spain...
My stomach sunk when I saw Strawbeary had posted another update. I am with myriam on the bleeding ass idea, lol.
I think this is becoming TC's own private crusade, how to really get to this obnoxious waste of skin.
A bleeding ass is never any fun.
There is more than one way to skin a cat - I am keen on betadinesutures suggestion. Let her do her thing, allow her to take responsibility, then watch things tetris and collapse... There will be more projects, just take care of your side to show how things are really done.
And also, how cute is this girl that she gets away with this? Surely not cuter than you are?
And what is the experience level difference between you and her? I keep wondering why you don't just say, "no, we're not going to do that." as any person of authority might.
just playing devil's advocate here (why do I feel like I just stepped into the 'phrases that make you cringe' thread?) but I like to think that everybody can learn something from everyone they meet, no matter what. This nemesis of Strawbeary's seems to have a knack for getting her way, having her ideas realized. Very few of us don't want more of that. How 'bout if Strawbeary figures out her methods and shares them with us all? Not as much fan as hating her, but at least we'll all benefit, right? Hell, we can even still hate her if we want!
If you just look the other way and let her crash, you're selling short yourself, your firm, and the client.
I'm a believer in the deep end. I'm not necessarily advocating something sinister - but that if this person is stepping up to the plate and asking for responsibility, then let her have it and see how she goes. I think from what Strawbeary has said, that she has been more than helpful and ready to provide advice and help - but this has been ignored. So, let her have it. She can succeed or fail on her own merits. Just keep the communication flowing.
cuteness is the solution to incompetence... wish i was cute.
I worked on a project where I was just another drafting monkey, cause the firm felt they had to bring in a guy with more experience to manage the project. It was a municipal building so he was in charge of all of the floor plans and the elevations so of course was in total control of grid line locations. There was a partner in charge of the design aspects of the office and another incharge of the production aspects of the office. So off we went down the road a group of four of us, being lead by the blind. Changes kept coming day in and day out mostly directed by Mr. Project Manager. So the obediant drafting monkeys just pushed forward, until the project really started to come undone. Oh we all complained to the Production Partner about all of the changes, because the design was not settled or thought thru. It seemed the partners never wanted to listen to the troops. So we continue down the road and one day everyone realized the project was in deep trouble as far as deadlines were concerned. So the Production Partner, says he will be taking over the elevations and sections of the building and were working away one night and in the next cubie...I hear OH SHIT!.....and then alot of other things people usually don't say unless they are really upset. Then it gets real quiet. Next day walk into the office and the Project Manager is gone. We have a first thing office meeting, and he tells us while working on the elevations he dicovered all of the grid lines are not perpendicular to the floor plan, the whole fricking building was drawn out of Square, not by a little bit but by a whole lot. Then everyone chimed in.....and I recall one woman saying...he was just a nasty man....always grabbing himself in front of me....
i love my team we are a good team. we laugh and work well together. we have a lot of meetings. we are not sticking tacks on each others chairs. no bleeding asses here.
strawbeary, leave a tube of preparation H on ms intern's chair.
rationalist. good question. I guess it goes back to the office culture and management. I have hinted before that the principal will tell any of us that whatever we are doing is awesome. He is a very enthusiastic, optimistic individual. He is also careless. And diplomatic - by that I mean avoids confrontation and "plays" people. He gives each and every one of us all the responsibility in the world and believes in our abilities probably more than he should. In turn, we REALLY lack in quality control and heirarchy, everyone just tends to do what they want. We don't do redlines for example. At all, ever. Nobody tells anybody what to do. This makes a great boss in many ways. Other ways, it is frustrating and difficult, I have talked about this a little with older co-workers, they don't really think it works either, but it's not talked about much. The principal is VERY laid back and takes the approach of "it will all work out in the end, don't get your panties in a bunch." (Which I need to keep in mind myself sometimes.) --- So when she pointed out that I had dead end corridors in my plan, and principal agrees, she takes this as I don't know what I am doing and declares my plan wrong. I point out dead end corridors in her plan in front of principal and this intern, principal replies with a no-big-deal tude that it can be fixed (he's right). Basically he operates under the premise that no one can screw up anything that he can't fix, which I don't really agree with.
What does that mean? Say girly thinks we need it this way, I think otherwise and vocalize, she will either do it her way anyways, or run up to mr. principal and get him to agree with her, to which she reports to me as final.
I could do the same, run to him everytime I need an idea confirmed. He would agree with me too. But I don't, I don't want to bother him with this stuff. He's busy. Sometimes I do.
Conclusion: if she doesn't like what I say, she will get the principal to agree with her, which is pretty darn easy. He knows we (I) will fix anything later and is too busy to really care and is more interested in fostering positivity. Meanwhile it's going to her head.
We all know that many instances of architecture really can go this way or that and we can all rip each other's designs apart and rather than right or wrong there are approaches and methods and revisions. As FRO mentions, she knows how to get it her way, she has the savvy and the politics down. If most people attempted this approach, they would be shut down by the principal. Not gonna happen.
Not to get deep into psychology or anything, but I have been lead to believe that she is one of these types who has always been the best at everything, is successful at everything she attempts and has never been told otherwise (aren't we all that way? ha ha.) Anyways, she is very competitive and won't take no for an answer. Experience difference: about 4 years, so not a whole lot, but enough. She has 1 year, I have 5.
On getting switched to a new project. This is how it goes: Small office. Very small. Not a lot of projects flying in the door. I am very honored to have been put on this project. The last project that me (and her) were on that sucked so bad, other co-workers have been put on that project after we got this one and are now fixing all those silly boo boos. I feel sorriest for them and don't want to be in that spot. Me and this girl were chosen for this project because I must say there is a little favortism working in our direction (the cute girls get the fun parts of the good projects, it's true). The senior-most guys here actually get the crappiest projects. Sorry guys. I'd be a fool to take myself out of this good position.
So this person effects me more than my co-workers. Why? First I sit next to her, we can, and do, chat all day long. We work on most every project together, and often exclusively. This additude infiltrates into our non-architectural discussions A LOT and is a large part of my description of her personality. We argue about everything. One day we were talking about the liquor store down the street. I said it was expensive. She agreed, but that she loved how the wine section was arranged. Puzzled, I asked, "How's that?" "Well, by region, of course." I say, "Oh, well that's how they usually organize wine departments, isn't it?" "NYHUT-UH!" "UH-HUH". EVERY conversation, architectural or not, goes something like this. One day I had some frozen custard, she asked me what custard was. I said it was ice cream. She insists there must be a difference, I agree maybe there is, but don't know what it is. She says maybe custard has eggs? I say possibly, but ice cream has eggs too. After a moment of thinking she declares that LIGHT ice cream has NO eggs and therefore I am wrong! (I am not sure if light ice cream has eggs or not. I give up.) She wins and turns triumphantly back to her desk. Nevermind that we still don't know what custard is. We have had a million similar conversations, dealing in every topic known to man, smog, Lent, care of houseplants, corn nuts, pronunciation of foreign words, you name it. The conversations turn to competitions and I will "lose". Back to the professional moments, I am the easiest for her to challenge, because of all of the above proximety. She asserts herself against me as it is easy to compare us, doing so many parallel activities and in a way, being quite similar.
Believe it or not, I am still trying to salvage this relationship and learn something from it. I hope she learns too. What I know I cannot do is CHANGE her. I must change our relationship. My husband used to be a counselor and has his degree in psych, he reminds me constantly that I cannot change her.
Ah, such GOOD THERAPY!
for my friends in Indianastan - a day at Alltell Stadium in Jacksonville, FL.
Peyton's futility.
Maurice Jones-Drew, #32, ran for 166 yards and 2 TD's.
drunk fans.
these guys were pretty clever w/ their D-CAF sign...but they're pointing it the wrong way.
Jaguars vs. Colts.
(tickets to the game and entrance to fully catered "tailgate cabana" courtesy of Moen - buy it for looks, buy it for life)...
...here are some images from Sunday's massacre:
Staw....you should ask her if she has Toe Jamb? See how she reacts....then maybe just maybe she will learn you really don't give a rats ass about carrying on....fruitless conversations.
oh...ya and you know she kinda sounds like a lady that sleeps in her panties.
strawbeary,
stop being so competitve with this girl and focus on the work (as vado indirectly suggests)...ok so what if she's a smart aleck and knows trivial shit like custard/eggs/ice cream...you gotta let little bullshit like that slide and not think of it as her attempting to make you look stupid...
maybe she's also right on some aspects of the design...so she's right, so what? don't get caught up on the psychology (what she's thinking after she's right, etc...)...that's gonna drive you nuts...
A wise fellow archinector once said, "just say, 'I guess so', which neither confirms or denies what (s)he is saying". I think it was Katze. You should try this because it sounds like my roommate.
Actually, could you PM me her phone number? For real, I think the two of them would be perfect together.....
well she DOESN'T "know" those things dammson!
what does it take to be competitive? Does it take 2 people? I don't have this problem with anybody else. I never feel beat down and exhausted when I have design dialougue with other colleauges, and there is never a winner and loser.
Honestly, I want to look candidly at my role in this. Sometimes she IS right, and I am OK with that. She's not an idiot, she actually has talent, I can admit that. I ask her for her opinion all the time, and lots of time I take it.
And THAT is the relationship I am trying to nurture. That she is shutting down.
*sigh* I feel for you ms. S-beary. I like the attempt to just answer 'I guess so' and leave it at that.
or
somebody can anonomously email her your rants and ask her is this her? just try to hide your identity a little better.
To tie some more things together. God save me if this comes back to haunt me for divulging too much personal info. We have this wellness suite (independent living) that includes pool, salon, fitness, massage, sauna, lockers etc. Her idea is to get the fitness+ up above the pool so you can look down on the pool whilst on the treadmill. She belongs to a gym that has this and she loves it. Great idea. We all love it. So the wellness suite needs 2 levels to get this effect. But people using the wellness suite should be able to use the fitness or massage area upstairs and then the lockers or pool downstairs without leaving the fitness suite to use the nearby public elevator/stairs outside of the wellness suite (whilst in bathing suit or gym wear). I point this out. Instead of reflecting on the idea that drove the decision and reconsidering, she adds a convenience stair and elevator inside the two-story 2,500 s.f. wellness suite. During today's meeting, while everyone was cooing over the 2 level idea, I ask if it warrants the cost and square footage to get this effect, and propose that while it is a neat effect, does it fit this space? What other things can we do to make this place great? Principal agrees (doesn't seem to want to, doesn't want to smash this great idea, feels bad). I'm watching him, nodding his head at me, but she is talking over it all, reminding of us how she has designed a 2 story space.
What do you think we have at the end?
It's kinda like our residential clients that come with a picture of a living room with a pass thru and step down from the kitchen and a picture of a kitchen with a peninsula and bar and tells us she wants both. Maybe that didn't come out right. It's what I mean by tetrissing.
Strawbeary – I found this article "how to cope with jerks at work". See if it gives you any advice or inspiration on how to deal with her. I hope it helps.
S- just wait for the VE phase when all the bids come back way over budget - then that extra stair/mezzanine can get the axe (along with all those other frivoulous bits) can easily save $50k by simplifying framing/no handrail/less sprinklers/et cetera. keep on :)
hi
Try pointing out to her that fat people HATE this gym configuration, and it cuts down on pool use by a lot. My gym has this, and it is the #2 reason I don't use the pool, though I love to swim. The #1 reason is that the absurd amount of chlorine they dump in the water makes my eyes hurt for two days afterwards, but that's out of the architect's hands, so we'll focus on reason #2 today.
Do you hate it because you want the pool to be more private?
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