All this talk about stereotypes reminds me of a memory I have from the second grade.
There was a boy who was transferred into my class because he had been a terror in every school and class he attended. When a teacher couldn’t deal with him anymore he got transferred. In my class, things culminated when he went after the teacher with a chair.
Well, some investigation on the part of the school discovered that he was deaf and abused. When the teacher approached him, he thought she was moving in to beat him. Shortly afterwards he was transferred to a school that could meet his needs.
He was a terror because he didn’t understand what was happening, not because he was a problem child.
Stereotyping seems to be one of humanity’s worst instincts. Architects, as some of the most highly educated individuals in their respective communities, must be more understanding to differences. We are often role models because of our position. Other professionals also share this responsibility.
Observant, I’m from a very rural community in the Deep South that’s very old-fashioned. I don’t think I could disagree with you more. Also, given my first post about acting as a caregiver for family, I expect you have me pegged as a female. I’m a male. Perhaps I don’t put any stock in stereotypes because I generally don’t fit them.
If you say so, then I'm ok with that. I have friends who like me as I am. I'll bet some of this ties back to the #STJ (sense, think, judge) personality profile. I'd bet that anyone who is bristling at this topic has a personality profile that ends otherwise. No apologies for being a quick study.
Architects, as some of the most highly educated individuals in their respective communities, must be more understanding to differences. We are often role models because of our position. Other professionals also share this responsibility.
Yes, professional in how they carry out their duties. However, does professionalism extend into how they SHOULD think and perceive things? I think not. An architect can be competent and think a developer client is money hungry scum or think that the housewife who wants to play architect is an entitled, high maintenance (blank) who you would prefer she STFU. Similarly, a doctor probably has patients who are a pain in the ass ... and thinks just that, verbatim. What standard are you holding an architect to? Especially one who might do bread and butter work in Main Street USA. Only because of it becoming newsworthy did I find out ex-model Christie Brinkley was married to a successful architect on Long Island, who may have been competent, but reportedly conducted his personal life in quite a different manner. And the things that come out of our top elected officials' mouths behind closed doors ...
As for schemas, read the SECOND sentence. Perfect:
I have a friend who I think of as a mentor in many ways. He is usually the guy who sits in a meeting ,takes in everything people are saying and invites people to share there thoughts. He is sort of a frumpy guy even when wearing and expensive suit. Most people would write him off partially because he also stutters. Then one day I discover he is the comptroller for one of the largest construction companies in the United States, he has a degree in Civil Engineering, an MBA,and is also a Lawyer. It is my policy to not write off people for any reason. I have been surprised time and time again.
Well, yes. However, at first glance, you would notice the "frump factor." Then, when you learn how intelligent he is, you listen and take note. But the fact that he's in an expensive suit and coming to all these meetings is indicative that he is of some consequence.
I did my internship in two different places, so I simultaneously had IDP advisers, even though I was on the good old 3 year system before they scrapped it. I thought my second IDP adviser was a nice guy, but kind of weird. He was licensed, had gone to a solid school, was into all these triathlons and shit, and he spoke very slowly and pensively, like he had just woken up. I asked him his opinions of firms to approach upon licensing. I told him the demographics and general style I wanted. Obviously, over the course of our mentor-intern relationship, he should have been able to read me to some extent. He gives me the name of this firm, and they turn out to be these bohemian dolts who did really dated design work. They were unfriendly to boot. I never solicited his advice again.
Yes, professional in how they carry out their duties. However, does professionalism extend into how they SHOULD think and perceive things? I think not.
No, it doesn’t, but it does impact how they behave publicly, and this forum is essentially a public place.
No, it doesn’t, but it does impact how they behave publicly, and this forum is essentially a public place.
And you think the professionalism on here is high? The TC part of this is like a happy hour on steroids. Are you an architect or architecture student? I thought you were in health care. How does this affect you?
s-d-d: I don't know what bringing you around means. I looked at the FB page. It was funny. Original. Caustically urban and cosmopolitan. That could just as easily be LA, SF or Chicago. I'm not shocked; that's baseline for me. Would I hang out with most of the featured people to make a statement of how cool I'd like to be? Probably not. As for Marino, I didn't know who he was. So he looks like a biker, per how his website opens up. Now that he's made his mark, he can do that. But when he was at Cornell, SOM, and Pei, per his chronology, I doubt he could have ... or should have.
since "professionalism" is all relative - TC tends to be the standard-bearer of the minimum expected behavior on the forums.
I think the reason we're debating you is because you appear to want to lower this standard.
Interesting:
a) I think it's because I'm willing to take a position on things most (liberal) architects and architecture grads, especially if under 30, would not take.
b) Observing the human condition does not always make for a "politically correct" report, and I like observing the human condition. I guess my friends, and some coworkers, have been of the type to sit there in a restaurant and sidewalk cafe and say "Hey, f**k, did you see THAT?" All in good fun, of course.
you're missing the point observant. it is not because you're different. also it has nothing to do with 'politically correctedness.' you are not a unique and beautiful snowflake. we're all different. it's just that we find a certain minimum acceptable standard for judging others, especially based on appearance or gender or race, etc. i also think most all of us genuinely hope you come to understand that and can be a better person for it. community building is related to architecture and all that. keep an open mind.
it's just that we find a certain minimum acceptable standard for judging others, especially based on appearance or gender or race, etc. i also think most all of us genuinely hope you come to understand that and can be a better person for it.
Interesting that in developed countries such as France, Italy and Argentina, this kind of stuff flies without batting an eye. And they're as liberal than the U.S., if not more so. There are no Westboros in those countries. Those are in Kansas. Also, your observation is in fact about regional norms for "political correctness," even within the U.S. Do you have friends who live in Manhattan, for example? When they describe a friend, it goes like this "My friend, who is (insert nationality or religion), and I went to see this exhibit." It is ABSOLUTELY normal. Also, of my friends, no more than 5% have been WASPs, owing to the neighborhoods I grew up in and schools/places of work. This attitude, which you feel I should snap out of, only meets with your brand of concern in the more homogenous parts of America. In multicultural urban areas, it is "standard equipment." But thanks for the concern. Watch Lisa Lampanelli sometime. In one of her routines, she says 'When you've gone through more, you can laugh at things more easily,' or something to that effect. She's right on the money.
do you mean manhattan kansas or manhattan new york? you're big into schools, surely you're familiar with manhattan kansas and coach snyder?
saying so-and-so is from such-and-such is different than making a whole bunch of assumptions about that person and judging them based on those assumption before you even meet them or talk to them.
i do not think the people from westboro baptist should be your role models. they fall far below what i would consider acceptable minimum standards. i do not see any scenario where i be friends or associate with anyone involved in that organization. you're at least worth responding to, they are not.
Thanks for the sarcasm. Yes, the one in NY. And I'm aware of KSU and that it's another solid Midwestern a-school. I'm big into schools because I had to be. For undergrad, I sort of tossed an application at one school, as in "eh." For grad, I couldn't get any straight answers, because even architects can't read the subtleties in different curricula, the different vibes of programs, and whether they would be a good fit, that I had to do a lot of leg work on my own, including traveling. And since I ended up at a competent, but not chased after school, I am not into schools for the snob value. I had neither the talent, interest, pedigree, funds, nor personality for an Ivy League. Therefore, I like to help people here weigh variables, if I'm asked. I've also taught as an adjunct about a dozen times, which might scare you a bit.
Please don't tell me you don't judge people by their appearance. On the street or in a shopping center, you will judge them as to whether it's even reasonable or prudent to approach them, either because of a lack of safety or anything in common. In a conference room, prejudging is employed via one's natural chameleon-like ability to comprehend different personal styles and grease the wheels of a situation accordingly.
Here's a situation where I will prejudge, and have no qualms. I had a bucolic, artsy, tourist town near where I once lived. I liked the physical atmosphere of the town, but the hippy-dippy factor in some of the shops was offputting, including a coffeehouse that had some good cookies. I would go in there and granolas (more so than hipsters) worked behind the counter. A line usually formed and there were diverse people in the line. When kindred souls hit the counter, they'd warm up. When I got up there, they'd cool their jets to indifference - translation: clean cut, short hair, polo type shirt, must be a Republican. Not even close. I've learned the 90:10 rule with granolas. If you look minimally conservative, expect sub par treatment 90% of the time and decent treatment 10% of the time. It's called using psychological schemas. And if it works, don't fix it.
Also, I think it's sad America is going toward polarized mindsets. It's all or nothing. Everyone now is either super conservative, because it aligns with their wealth, or is super liberal, because they're sort of supposed to be. I like mix and match better.
everydayintern, I almost hate to say it but I wish I had been head-down in CAD for the last week! Instead I've been out on-site painting hundreds of arrows. Cool ptoject, but I kinda miss sitting at my desk listening to The Skeptic's Guide podcasts.
Ok, we've discussed politics, gender, sexuality, and political correctness. A thought has been swirling in my head.
Organized religion:
a mechanism and/or guilt trip to regulate people's behavior such that every word uttered and every breath taken is analyzed in relation to the type of existence we will have upon expiration, irrespective of the fact that everyone is clueless of what that is and what it will really be like.
Man, what's with all the YouTube's this morning? Curt, that was deep. It would make the nuns mad.
For those of you who like politically incorrect humor, and sort of an R-rating, go on to YouTube and type in "Lisa Lampanelli Take It Like a Man" and choose the 10:00 vid that says highlights. I'm not going to link it. Go there at YOUR free will.
It was the perfect day for our project. Raining like heck outside, nice and dry inside. We worked from 8:00 am till 2:00 pm. Had a great time, took Mrs s-d-d...for lunch, We ran into someone who we have not seen in a while and it was good because she is a great person who happens to have beautiful eyes....that I have to keep myself from looking at for to long cause I know there will be a kick under the table.
I'll bet there are some good, down-home Portuguese restaurants in N.E. (Providence, south of Boston, etc.). They are hard to find elsewhere in the U.S. I'd love to find either cod (without scales) or beef prepared the way they make it to eat on a regular enough basis.
In summary: Saarinen rocks, as does Ando. Allied Works was a little bit of a letdown. ...and the American Girl store is evidence of America's end-of-empire decadence.
rush are amazing. but i understand the opinion of vado. bare-naked ladies are much easier on the ear when it comes to canadian content. or neil young. but then again neil young is crazy awesome and in own category.
anyway, any band that has been around longer than i have been alive and isnt just pumping oldies is pretty cool.
Thread Central
All this talk about stereotypes reminds me of a memory I have from the second grade.
There was a boy who was transferred into my class because he had been a terror in every school and class he attended. When a teacher couldn’t deal with him anymore he got transferred. In my class, things culminated when he went after the teacher with a chair.
Well, some investigation on the part of the school discovered that he was deaf and abused. When the teacher approached him, he thought she was moving in to beat him. Shortly afterwards he was transferred to a school that could meet his needs.
He was a terror because he didn’t understand what was happening, not because he was a problem child.
Stereotyping seems to be one of humanity’s worst instincts. Architects, as some of the most highly educated individuals in their respective communities, must be more understanding to differences. We are often role models because of our position. Other professionals also share this responsibility.
Observant, I’m from a very rural community in the Deep South that’s very old-fashioned. I don’t think I could disagree with you more. Also, given my first post about acting as a caregiver for family, I expect you have me pegged as a female. I’m a male. Perhaps I don’t put any stock in stereotypes because I generally don’t fit them.
So, you're a dick?
If you say so, then I'm ok with that. I have friends who like me as I am. I'll bet some of this ties back to the #STJ (sense, think, judge) personality profile. I'd bet that anyone who is bristling at this topic has a personality profile that ends otherwise. No apologies for being a quick study.
Perhaps I don’t put any stock in stereotypes because I generally don’t fit them.
I'm not a conformist, and while I wouldn't say I fit a stereotype, I fit a schema.
Architects, as some of the most highly educated individuals in their respective communities, must be more understanding to differences. We are often role models because of our position. Other professionals also share this responsibility.
Yes, professional in how they carry out their duties. However, does professionalism extend into how they SHOULD think and perceive things? I think not. An architect can be competent and think a developer client is money hungry scum or think that the housewife who wants to play architect is an entitled, high maintenance (blank) who you would prefer she STFU. Similarly, a doctor probably has patients who are a pain in the ass ... and thinks just that, verbatim. What standard are you holding an architect to? Especially one who might do bread and butter work in Main Street USA. Only because of it becoming newsworthy did I find out ex-model Christie Brinkley was married to a successful architect on Long Island, who may have been competent, but reportedly conducted his personal life in quite a different manner. And the things that come out of our top elected officials' mouths behind closed doors ...
As for schemas, read the SECOND sentence. Perfect:
http://psychology.about.com/od/sindex/g/def_schema.htm
Then, the following sentences indicate the potential pitfalls. But, you get the idea.
I have a friend who I think of as a mentor in many ways. He is usually the guy who sits in a meeting ,takes in everything people are saying and invites people to share there thoughts. He is sort of a frumpy guy even when wearing and expensive suit. Most people would write him off partially because he also stutters. Then one day I discover he is the comptroller for one of the largest construction companies in the United States, he has a degree in Civil Engineering, an MBA,and is also a Lawyer. It is my policy to not write off people for any reason. I have been surprised time and time again.
s-d-d:
Well, yes. However, at first glance, you would notice the "frump factor." Then, when you learn how intelligent he is, you listen and take note. But the fact that he's in an expensive suit and coming to all these meetings is indicative that he is of some consequence.
I did my internship in two different places, so I simultaneously had IDP advisers, even though I was on the good old 3 year system before they scrapped it. I thought my second IDP adviser was a nice guy, but kind of weird. He was licensed, had gone to a solid school, was into all these triathlons and shit, and he spoke very slowly and pensively, like he had just woken up. I asked him his opinions of firms to approach upon licensing. I told him the demographics and general style I wanted. Obviously, over the course of our mentor-intern relationship, he should have been able to read me to some extent. He gives me the name of this firm, and they turn out to be these bohemian dolts who did really dated design work. They were unfriendly to boot. I never solicited his advice again.
observant,
go to Face Book: Humans in New York....I have nothing more to say. I hope it brings you around.
Yes, professional in how they carry out their duties. However, does professionalism extend into how they SHOULD think and perceive things? I think not.
No, it doesn’t, but it does impact how they behave publicly, and this forum is essentially a public place.
da man! www.petermarinoarchitect.com
No, it doesn’t, but it does impact how they behave publicly, and this forum is essentially a public place.
And you think the professionalism on here is high? The TC part of this is like a happy hour on steroids. Are you an architect or architecture student? I thought you were in health care. How does this affect you?
s-d-d: I don't know what bringing you around means. I looked at the FB page. It was funny. Original. Caustically urban and cosmopolitan. That could just as easily be LA, SF or Chicago. I'm not shocked; that's baseline for me. Would I hang out with most of the featured people to make a statement of how cool I'd like to be? Probably not. As for Marino, I didn't know who he was. So he looks like a biker, per how his website opens up. Now that he's made his mark, he can do that. But when he was at Cornell, SOM, and Pei, per his chronology, I doubt he could have ... or should have.
And you think the professionalism on here is high?
since "professionalism" is all relative - TC tends to be the standard-bearer of the minimum expected behavior on the forums.
I think the reason we're debating you is because you appear to want to lower this standard.
since "professionalism" is all relative - TC tends to be the standard-bearer of the minimum expected behavior on the forums.
I think the reason we're debating you is because you appear to want to lower this standard.
Interesting:
a) I think it's because I'm willing to take a position on things most (liberal) architects and architecture grads, especially if under 30, would not take.
b) Observing the human condition does not always make for a "politically correct" report, and I like observing the human condition. I guess my friends, and some coworkers, have been of the type to sit there in a restaurant and sidewalk cafe and say "Hey, f**k, did you see THAT?" All in good fun, of course.
you're missing the point observant. it is not because you're different. also it has nothing to do with 'politically correctedness.' you are not a unique and beautiful snowflake. we're all different. it's just that we find a certain minimum acceptable standard for judging others, especially based on appearance or gender or race, etc. i also think most all of us genuinely hope you come to understand that and can be a better person for it. community building is related to architecture and all that. keep an open mind.
it's just that we find a certain minimum acceptable standard for judging others, especially based on appearance or gender or race, etc. i also think most all of us genuinely hope you come to understand that and can be a better person for it.
Interesting that in developed countries such as France, Italy and Argentina, this kind of stuff flies without batting an eye. And they're as liberal than the U.S., if not more so. There are no Westboros in those countries. Those are in Kansas. Also, your observation is in fact about regional norms for "political correctness," even within the U.S. Do you have friends who live in Manhattan, for example? When they describe a friend, it goes like this "My friend, who is (insert nationality or religion), and I went to see this exhibit." It is ABSOLUTELY normal. Also, of my friends, no more than 5% have been WASPs, owing to the neighborhoods I grew up in and schools/places of work. This attitude, which you feel I should snap out of, only meets with your brand of concern in the more homogenous parts of America. In multicultural urban areas, it is "standard equipment." But thanks for the concern. Watch Lisa Lampanelli sometime. In one of her routines, she says 'When you've gone through more, you can laugh at things more easily,' or something to that effect. She's right on the money.
do you mean manhattan kansas or manhattan new york? you're big into schools, surely you're familiar with manhattan kansas and coach snyder?
saying so-and-so is from such-and-such is different than making a whole bunch of assumptions about that person and judging them based on those assumption before you even meet them or talk to them.
i do not think the people from westboro baptist should be your role models. they fall far below what i would consider acceptable minimum standards. i do not see any scenario where i be friends or associate with anyone involved in that organization. you're at least worth responding to, they are not.
Thanks for the sarcasm. Yes, the one in NY. And I'm aware of KSU and that it's another solid Midwestern a-school. I'm big into schools because I had to be. For undergrad, I sort of tossed an application at one school, as in "eh." For grad, I couldn't get any straight answers, because even architects can't read the subtleties in different curricula, the different vibes of programs, and whether they would be a good fit, that I had to do a lot of leg work on my own, including traveling. And since I ended up at a competent, but not chased after school, I am not into schools for the snob value. I had neither the talent, interest, pedigree, funds, nor personality for an Ivy League. Therefore, I like to help people here weigh variables, if I'm asked. I've also taught as an adjunct about a dozen times, which might scare you a bit.
Please don't tell me you don't judge people by their appearance. On the street or in a shopping center, you will judge them as to whether it's even reasonable or prudent to approach them, either because of a lack of safety or anything in common. In a conference room, prejudging is employed via one's natural chameleon-like ability to comprehend different personal styles and grease the wheels of a situation accordingly.
Here's a situation where I will prejudge, and have no qualms. I had a bucolic, artsy, tourist town near where I once lived. I liked the physical atmosphere of the town, but the hippy-dippy factor in some of the shops was offputting, including a coffeehouse that had some good cookies. I would go in there and granolas (more so than hipsters) worked behind the counter. A line usually formed and there were diverse people in the line. When kindred souls hit the counter, they'd warm up. When I got up there, they'd cool their jets to indifference - translation: clean cut, short hair, polo type shirt, must be a Republican. Not even close. I've learned the 90:10 rule with granolas. If you look minimally conservative, expect sub par treatment 90% of the time and decent treatment 10% of the time. It's called using psychological schemas. And if it works, don't fix it.
Also, I think it's sad America is going toward polarized mindsets. It's all or nothing. Everyone now is either super conservative, because it aligns with their wealth, or is super liberal, because they're sort of supposed to be. I like mix and match better.
What's the deal TC? I have my head down, buried in CAD and Sketchup for a couple of days, come back and the place has been "observified"
Sorry .. and not really sorry.
Kind of like the degree for licensure thread where I was the dissenting opinion.
Ditto here. I've had political correctness defined, and my lack of adherence chastised, so it became a volley.
Carry on ...
I'll try to post a pic, hang on.
Here it is: Kim Beck's NOTICE: A Flock of Signs on the IMA 100 Acres Art and Nature Park grounds. This is one of four flocks on the campus.
^ Nice.
Of crap. I just realized it's NOT Friday.
TONGUE IN CHEEK....miles how unprofessional of you to forget what day of the week it is.
^
Ok, we've discussed politics, gender, sexuality, and political correctness. A thought has been swirling in my head.
Organized religion:
a mechanism and/or guilt trip to regulate people's behavior such that every word uttered and every breath taken is analyzed in relation to the type of existence we will have upon expiration, irrespective of the fact that everyone is clueless of what that is and what it will really be like.
Professionally yours, Happy Friday.
Observant....Go Talk to Dan Brown...
s-d-d: I need to become more worldly ... and read one of his books first.
^sugar free applesauce
diner workday tomorrow...yahoo! we be doing de-construction...hopefully it will stay cool.
observant, I have a topic for you: free will is an illusion. What does that mean for architecture?
For reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCofmZlC72g
i see your sam harris and raise a neal peart
All preordained-
A prisoner in chains-
A victim of venomous fate.
Kicked in the face,
You can't pray for a place
In heaven's unearthly estate.
or
Each of us-
A cell of awareness-
Imperfect and incomplete.
Genetic blends
With uncertain ends
On a fortune hunt that's far too fleet.
after all, blame is better to give than to receive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDUXE9-SS4s
observant, I have a topic for you: free will is an illusion.
I believe in free will. However, I simultaneously believe we are predestined.
We are free to select our predestiny? LOL
Man, what's with all the YouTube's this morning? Curt, that was deep. It would make the nuns mad.
For those of you who like politically incorrect humor, and sort of an R-rating, go on to YouTube and type in "Lisa Lampanelli Take It Like a Man" and choose the 10:00 vid that says highlights. I'm not going to link it. Go there at YOUR free will.
Happy Memorial Day weekend, amigos.
As endorsed by today's NYT editorial:
The End of the Perpetual War
"The targeting of citizens of other countries will now be subjected to the same conditions the administration uses to kill American citizens abroad."
It was the perfect day for our project. Raining like heck outside, nice and dry inside. We worked from 8:00 am till 2:00 pm. Had a great time, took Mrs s-d-d...for lunch, We ran into someone who we have not seen in a while and it was good because she is a great person who happens to have beautiful eyes....that I have to keep myself from looking at for to long cause I know there will be a kick under the table.
I'll bet there are some good, down-home Portuguese restaurants in N.E. (Providence, south of Boston, etc.). They are hard to find elsewhere in the U.S. I'd love to find either cod (without scales) or beef prepared the way they make it to eat on a regular enough basis.
yup!
But now vado will post that eternal question: why is it that the most technically skilled musicians write the worst songs?! Love you vado!!
Donna -- are you going to the game tomorrow?
rush has bad songs?
I love tapas, Spanish wine, avant plays, ridiculously good deserts, and good company.
beta tell us more about the "company"...
I thought you were in Indy ...
In summary: Saarinen rocks, as does Ando. Allied Works was a little bit of a letdown. ...and the American Girl store is evidence of America's end-of-empire decadence.
Steven I just had my first-ever experience of shopping at Forever 21. Yeah, I agree. We 're totally doomed.
lol steven. suddenly everything makes sense
rush are amazing. but i understand the opinion of vado. bare-naked ladies are much easier on the ear when it comes to canadian content. or neil young. but then again neil young is crazy awesome and in own category.
anyway, any band that has been around longer than i have been alive and isnt just pumping oldies is pretty cool.
Hope everyone is having a great weekend. I have my nieces and nephews in town!
Obs, I didn't ask if you believed in freewill...
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