Would it be possible for some of you to do me a solid and provide some feedback on my Penn Station thesis thread? I spent most of an evening writing it, and then watched it sink like a rock to the bottom of the page.
Now if I can just put as much effort into re-writing my thesis proposal, which is due in August...
have any you all seen this already? if not, check it outs. it's fascinating look at reality of high end design in a world that no longer agrees with the concept. its a look at life in nakagin by 2 architects from portugal, btw.
manta, thats sad but unsurprising about france. our world is going all stupid at once and the people with the guillotine poised over their heads are pulling the chord to let the damn blade fall - it's like they (we?) are impatient to be headless and all but dead. Its amazing how people choose to have a worse life in exchange for false security. seems like the republican party is built on the phenomenon lately...
Very nice, Sarah. Thank you. And it's scarily accurate.
I went to a lecture tonight by Jorge Hernandez, architect and professor of architecture at University of Miami. he gave an awesome, broad-ranging talk on his work to save Hilario Candela's Miami Marine Stadium. I'm going to start a thread about it….
I'm listening to Science Friday on which they are discussing multiple sclerosis. The body's own immune system turns on itself and attacks the myelin sheath, the material that protects the pathways of messages to the muscles. Of course I keep hearing that term as "Maya Lin", as in "We have to stop the Maya Lin attacks" and "A healthy Maya Lin system is within our grasp". It's cracking me up!
I want to go see her "Storm King" project.. I just about went there a few weeks ago but it was opening day for members, so I figured every New Yorker who could escape New York would. Hoping to get back down there sometime this summer.
habitat is in fine shape and occupied by the wealthy or so i understand. it was never so extreme though and also not built on land worth a lot more with the building torn down...
went out on the town on my own last night: outdoor market, galleries, sidewalks all hopping. gallery walk night. every restaurant packed. assumed i'd meet new people.
never really do.
i did run into a lot of friends and acquaintances and visited there on the sidewalk.
must be too old to meet people. not good at small talk anyway.
Will, that article was fascinating, thanks. I wish there'd been more pictures (especially of the bathroom!) but beggars can't be choosers.
I WAS puzzled by one random tiny thing though - the authors mention that they come from a country with no seismic activity........ do they realize they come from Portugal?! Portugal has tons of seismic activity. One of the strongest earthquakes in history was centered near Lisboa, IIRC, although it was felt throughout western europe. Anyway that totally stumped me.
Steven I'm jealous. I haven't been outside of a building, even for lunch, between early morning and darkness, in a week. Huge deadline early next week.
Correction: it was centered off the coast and felt as far as Finland. There was another big earthquake in the 70s too so definitely a currently active seismic area.
From what I understand, habitat is actually slowly falling apart and the condo association spends a small fortune to keep it up. If it were lower income housing it would have condemned and torn down years ago. Exposed concrete in that climate doesn't hold up well.
hadn't heard that about habitat. the units are still selling normally, not like nakagin. they look odd cuz people have turned them into like greek style bungalows on the inside, but otherwise seem cool enough...habitat is really one of the few constructivist buildings that seems actually timeless to me.
no idea about the Portuguese and their lack of seismic awareness. maybe its relative. we get earthquakes here way too often. like snow in winter and rain in the spring.
yeah - every summer they are doing continual roof and deck repair-work - most of the units have water infiltration problems (from the 200 or so roof decks and from the windows). It's a pretty amazing building with spectacular views - but without the constant $$ from the wealthy inhabitants it wouldn't have survived this long.
old-timers around here joke that if we were to build habitat today it would be called "perpetual lawsuits '67"
Habitat features in a movie called Afterglow. As I recall the movie isn't very good but it has Johnny Lee Miller (from Hackers) and Julie Christie (so gorgeous) in a May-December romance, and the apartment is shown as somewhat of a character in the movie as well.
I unreservedly adore Habitat, but I can imagine it is a problematic building.
that makes sense toasteroven. not a surprise. then again my flat in london was leaking the whole time i was there and it was repaired numerous times. also a home reserved for the wealthy.
there is sometimes too much expectation that buildings will not require maintenance to keep in proper shape. its a huge issue in japan where maintenance is completely ignored - part of the reason everything is torn down every 25 years or sooner and rebuilt.
in mongolia for a few days. ulan bator feels a lot like winnipeg, but less lawful more messy. developing countries all have an amazing vibe when there is progress in the air. lots of nastiness, but so much potential too. its quite a rush.
Is anyone else worked up about PRISM? I'm just not, I can't seem to care, even after reading two long articles on why "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" is faulty logic.
I'm glad Snowden was a whistleblower and now we know about it. But I just can't seem to care about it.
i am, big time. i worry about a state that does not value my privacy, or right to due process. this is what happens when other issues weigh on the minds of a states citizenry; we give up rights we think are of less importance, for the sake of economic, health, education, and energy security. the 4th amendment was decimated by our government, and i want it back.
I suppose there is a difference between Google knowing every. damn. thing. about me, which they do, and the government knowing same. But I feel like it's a distinction without a difference. I don't feel like I'm any more likely to be subjected to a false accusation and imprisonment based on my internet or cell phone use than I am for attending an Occupy rally or mouthing off to a TSA agent or running a red light (two of those are illegal). I mean, if the government wants me for some reason they'll come get me - even if I had an arsenal I couldn't stop "them".
For example, I spent a *lot* of time on the julianassangeisgorgeous tumblr around the time of the Wikileaks cable publication. If the government decides that makes me a dangerous threat, then we've got *way* bigger problems than any of us want to face.
The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is the part of the Bill of Rights which guards against unreasonable searches and seizures, along with requiring any warrant to be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause. It was adopted as a response to the abuse of the writ of assistance, which is a type of general search warrant, in the American Revolution. Search and seizure (including arrest) should be limited in scope according to specific information supplied to the issuing court, usually by a law enforcement officer, who has sworn by it. The Fourth Amendment applies to the states by way of the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.
donna, it really is more than that. google, for the moment, can't throw you in jail, but the government can. not only that, but when the fed/state starts using their considerable leverage against google, Facebook, and whomever else, then multiply that x 10.
Habitat features in a movie called Afterglow. As I recall the movie isn't very good but it has Johnny Lee Miller (from Hackers) and Julie Christie (so gorgeous) in a May-December romance
I remember her as a kid. She's a Brit, but born in India. It's hard to think of Julie Christie as someone who would be on Medicare if an America but, since she's a Brit, she's got access to socialized medicine, though she can probably afford to thrown down a few pounds and move to the head of the line.
But beta the government can throw me in jail this morning if they decide to, whether I've done anything wrong or not, and woe unto me trying to find my way out if the Kafka-esque maze if they do. Whether they use my Internet use as a reason or just make something up about me won't really matter.
I mean I understand intellectually that it violates the 4th amendment, I just don't have a gut feeling that in practice it's anything different.
i know you don't believe that, and i don't think you know anyone that has happened to. we all get our day in court, however the government searching, reading, intercepting, etc my communications, without any due process, court order, or anything else, presumes i am guilty without any reasonable suspicion. first it's this, then it'll be the government enlisting your neighbors, your co-workers, your extended family, then your immediately family to report on your "activities."
no matter how hungry, poor, or energy dependent we are/get, i cannot conceive of place i'd rather not live in, than a place that does not value my privacy.
p.s. lets not forget, their are certain people that still want the government to intrude into [y]our bedroom.
We are living in a police state. Recording police on video cameras or cell phones has become a punishable offense where people are intimidated, have their phones confiscated, or are thrown into jail just for recording events in a public place. Whistleblowers have been prosecuted at an unbelievable rate while those perpetrating the exposed crimes go scot-free. American citizens are denied due process, or assassinated by drone strikes overseas.
Peaceful demonstrators at college campuses are maced en masse. The occupy movement was laced with government infiltrators and agent provocateurs. The media in this country is a tool of the corporate political state, designed to prevent you from getting any actual information, which of course explains why whistleblowers are prosecuted so severely.
Everything I write, which is essentially what I think, is subject to scrutiny by the government. Disagreeing with the government or challenging it in any way makes me an enemy of the state. You don't have to go very far to see people arrested, detained, abused, disappeared into black prisons, et cetera. At the very least this is a scare tactic designed to intimidate people and keep them from speaking their minds. In reality it is just another example of Totalitarianism.
isn't the american citizen who was killed in a drone strike overseas Anwar al-Awlaki, an al qaueda terrorist who wanted to harm my country? obama gets a pass on that one. if the other american citizens killed by drone strikes died because they were aiding terrorists that intended to hurt other americans, he gets a pass on that one too. the government's job is protect it's citizens, and that's what it did.
i don't know about people being denied due process. you could claim those mentioned above were denied due process, but to be fair they were unable to attend their trials due to the fact they were not alive.
the data mining thing was limited to information coming and going across US borders right? so they weren't collecting calls from illinois to ohio, it was only stuff crossing international borders. if that wasn't the case, it would fall outside the scope of the NSA and into the scope of the FBI. government can collect that data, and perhaps the reason people aren't that worked up is because this has been happening for decades. "project shamrock" started in 1945, where the government eavesdropped on telegraphs.
i can understand if you think what they're doing is wrong, but this is something they've been doing continually since the technical capability emerged. it shouldn't be a surprise. it's been tested in court and it is not a breach of the 4th amendment.
The data mining doesn't surprise me, I've assumed it for many years. But it bothers me. What bothers me mostly is not that they are doing it, but it is the potential sophistication of such operations. The capabilities of such systems in recording and coordinating and analyzing and programming are profound. It is already creepy and growing exponentially. I already know I feel creeped out when I see the effects of an entity recording my habits and then using them against me to influence my opinion. It changes the sphere of reality.
it's only creepy because we're all online volunteering information about ourselves to large corporations that collect data on a lot of people. the system doesn't work if you don't continually feed it.
I guess I'm saying the revelation of PRISM doesn't raise my paranoia about the evil misdeeds the government is capable of any higher than it was already (note: in general I'm very pro-big government for things like education, health care, environmental protections, investment in research,etc. Typical liberal causes.). I've never felt it impossible that the CIA could knock down my door someday either because of a mis-identification or because I did something stupid that pissed off the wrong person ("oops, I didn't mean to cut you off at daycare dropoff, Mr/Ms. FBI-agent-Having-A-Bad-Day!") and that I'd end up behind bars and really, really unable to defend myself because whoever jailed me didn't want to admit to a mistake.
The one place privacy gives me pause is bedroom/medical issues, e.g. abortion and birth control. Which is another way this topic is interesting: internet and cell data is non-physical. No one is thinking they can intercept and read the letters I put in the mail or the phone calls I make from within my home on a landline without warrants. But the internet is still undefined by our current laws, and is IMO moving too fast for any government to keep up, anyway. So again we, as architects, are faced with a non-physical world that hits up against our physical world unpredictably.
So labeling an American citizen a terrorist removes their right to due process? All you have to do is be accused of a crime and you're a "legal" target for assassination.
What about black prisons for "rendition", torture, indefinite detention without due process? What about Guantanamo? Are these the kind of ideals we uphold as a people and a nation?
probably not the ideals we uphold. as i understand it, the US has committed to not torturing so much. that was a bad idea, and they're backing off of it. unless i'm mistaken.
indefinite detention without due process probably refers to POWs right? what else would we do with foreign soldiers who are attacking our soldiers? it's pretty much lock them up as a POW or kill them or let them kill our people right? which one of those 3 options sounds best? fourth option is, of course, end our wars and quit starting new ones. quit voting for republicans. most of us can agree to that.
what would have done with al-Awlaki? can't kill him, can't throw him in jail (would have been difficult to get to him even if we wanted to). do you want those people killing american citizens? remember, terrorists are often targeting civilians, like the 9/11 attacks and the boston marathon bombing. are you condoning that?
rendition is rendition. it's a thing that happens, and pretty much has to happen. that implies we capture a fugitive and turn them over to the proper authorities. 'black prison' just means they have to be somewhere during that process, right? maybe i'm not understanding what you're talking about.
i have nothing against gitmo. having US land controlled by our military in cuba is a good thing. not that i think there will be another cuban missle crisis, but it's better to have it than not just in case. when obama tried to move gitmo prisoners back onto US mainland soil, pretty much every prison said NIMBY. i think we should treat prisoners as well as we can, whether they are in gitmo or not.
Thread Central
Donna that jetpack thread you started is just ....
Thinking observant went on vacation...
s-d-d:
Do you WANT me to go on vacation?
Would it be possible for some of you to do me a solid and provide some feedback on my Penn Station thesis thread? I spent most of an evening writing it, and then watched it sink like a rock to the bottom of the page.
Now if I can just put as much effort into re-writing my thesis proposal, which is due in August...
have any you all seen this already? if not, check it outs. it's fascinating look at reality of high end design in a world that no longer agrees with the concept. its a look at life in nakagin by 2 architects from portugal, btw.
manta, thats sad but unsurprising about france. our world is going all stupid at once and the people with the guillotine poised over their heads are pulling the chord to let the damn blade fall - it's like they (we?) are impatient to be headless and all but dead. Its amazing how people choose to have a worse life in exchange for false security. seems like the republican party is built on the phenomenon lately...
Excellent read, Will, thanks for that.
s-d-d WANTS me to go on vacation yet I don't see him forking over tickets for air travel.
Donna, I came across this today, and thought of you!
Very nice, Sarah. Thank you. And it's scarily accurate.
I went to a lecture tonight by Jorge Hernandez, architect and professor of architecture at University of Miami. he gave an awesome, broad-ranging talk on his work to save Hilario Candela's Miami Marine Stadium. I'm going to start a thread about it….
@will - great article - of course you know my love/hate relationship with the metabolists...
will - Great, link, thanks. Interesting to compare with Safdie's Habitat.
"We have to stop the Maya Lin attacks"
this is true. it's getting out of hand.
not really. i haven't heard much from her in years. it was funny though. thanks donna :)
I want to go see her "Storm King" project.. I just about went there a few weeks ago but it was opening day for members, so I figured every New Yorker who could escape New York would. Hoping to get back down there sometime this summer.
OBTW....SHE IS HOT!
She's been working on What is Missing? It's supposed to be her last memorial.
I especially like Unchopping a Tree.
If you didn't know, the manliest men make furniture.
hulu no go in tokyo
maya lin is very cool. must keep her safe
habitat is in fine shape and occupied by the wealthy or so i understand. it was never so extreme though and also not built on land worth a lot more with the building torn down...
never really do.
i did run into a lot of friends and acquaintances and visited there on the sidewalk.
must be too old to meet people. not good at small talk anyway.
had dinner with a good friend.
Will, that article was fascinating, thanks. I wish there'd been more pictures (especially of the bathroom!) but beggars can't be choosers.
I WAS puzzled by one random tiny thing though - the authors mention that they come from a country with no seismic activity........ do they realize they come from Portugal?! Portugal has tons of seismic activity. One of the strongest earthquakes in history was centered near Lisboa, IIRC, although it was felt throughout western europe. Anyway that totally stumped me.
Steven I'm jealous. I haven't been outside of a building, even for lunch, between early morning and darkness, in a week. Huge deadline early next week.
Correction: it was centered off the coast and felt as far as Finland. There was another big earthquake in the 70s too so definitely a currently active seismic area.
From what I understand, habitat is actually slowly falling apart and the condo association spends a small fortune to keep it up. If it were lower income housing it would have condemned and torn down years ago. Exposed concrete in that climate doesn't hold up well.
interesting, not one discussion here on the nect about the impact of cheryl sandberg's book Lean In.
Who is Cheryl Sandberg? She related to the poet...tongue in cheeK Carl Sanberg?
Yes, they are half-siblings.
morning all,
i spent the weekend at crescent beach turning pink.... lovely weather and waves.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/answering-harvards-question-about-my-personal-life-52-years-later/2013/06/06/89c97e2e-c259-11e2-914f-a7aba60512a7_story.html
interesting.
hadn't heard that about habitat. the units are still selling normally, not like nakagin. they look odd cuz people have turned them into like greek style bungalows on the inside, but otherwise seem cool enough...habitat is really one of the few constructivist buildings that seems actually timeless to me.
no idea about the Portuguese and their lack of seismic awareness. maybe its relative. we get earthquakes here way too often. like snow in winter and rain in the spring.
yeah - every summer they are doing continual roof and deck repair-work - most of the units have water infiltration problems (from the 200 or so roof decks and from the windows). It's a pretty amazing building with spectacular views - but without the constant $$ from the wealthy inhabitants it wouldn't have survived this long.
old-timers around here joke that if we were to build habitat today it would be called "perpetual lawsuits '67"
tokyo doesn't have the extreme freeze-thaw cycles, which is what tends destroys concrete and masonry buildings in this climate.
Habitat features in a movie called Afterglow. As I recall the movie isn't very good but it has Johnny Lee Miller (from Hackers) and Julie Christie (so gorgeous) in a May-December romance, and the apartment is shown as somewhat of a character in the movie as well.
I unreservedly adore Habitat, but I can imagine it is a problematic building.
that makes sense toasteroven. not a surprise. then again my flat in london was leaking the whole time i was there and it was repaired numerous times. also a home reserved for the wealthy.
there is sometimes too much expectation that buildings will not require maintenance to keep in proper shape. its a huge issue in japan where maintenance is completely ignored - part of the reason everything is torn down every 25 years or sooner and rebuilt.
in mongolia for a few days. ulan bator feels a lot like winnipeg, but less lawful more messy. developing countries all have an amazing vibe when there is progress in the air. lots of nastiness, but so much potential too. its quite a rush.
Is anyone else worked up about PRISM? I'm just not, I can't seem to care, even after reading two long articles on why "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" is faulty logic.
I'm glad Snowden was a whistleblower and now we know about it. But I just can't seem to care about it.
i am, big time. i worry about a state that does not value my privacy, or right to due process. this is what happens when other issues weigh on the minds of a states citizenry; we give up rights we think are of less importance, for the sake of economic, health, education, and energy security. the 4th amendment was decimated by our government, and i want it back.
I suppose there is a difference between Google knowing every. damn. thing. about me, which they do, and the government knowing same. But I feel like it's a distinction without a difference. I don't feel like I'm any more likely to be subjected to a false accusation and imprisonment based on my internet or cell phone use than I am for attending an Occupy rally or mouthing off to a TSA agent or running a red light (two of those are illegal). I mean, if the government wants me for some reason they'll come get me - even if I had an arsenal I couldn't stop "them".
For example, I spent a *lot* of time on the julianassangeisgorgeous tumblr around the time of the Wikileaks cable publication. If the government decides that makes me a dangerous threat, then we've got *way* bigger problems than any of us want to face.
The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is the part of the Bill of Rights which guards against unreasonable searches and seizures, along with requiring any warrant to be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause. It was adopted as a response to the abuse of the writ of assistance, which is a type of general search warrant, in the American Revolution. Search and seizure (including arrest) should be limited in scope according to specific information supplied to the issuing court, usually by a law enforcement officer, who has sworn by it. The Fourth Amendment applies to the states by way of the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.
donna, it really is more than that. google, for the moment, can't throw you in jail, but the government can. not only that, but when the fed/state starts using their considerable leverage against google, Facebook, and whomever else, then multiply that x 10.
I'm sure the only person who would be concerned about your internet history is a certain hunky missouri native. of course I'm referring to ed asner.
geeze...she was a hoping for the Indiana guy....Brad Pitt
Habitat features in a movie called Afterglow. As I recall the movie isn't very good but it has Johnny Lee Miller (from Hackers) and Julie Christie (so gorgeous) in a May-December romance
I remember her as a kid. She's a Brit, but born in India. It's hard to think of Julie Christie as someone who would be on Medicare if an America but, since she's a Brit, she's got access to socialized medicine, though she can probably afford to thrown down a few pounds and move to the head of the line.
I mean I understand intellectually that it violates the 4th amendment, I just don't have a gut feeling that in practice it's anything different.
i know you don't believe that, and i don't think you know anyone that has happened to. we all get our day in court, however the government searching, reading, intercepting, etc my communications, without any due process, court order, or anything else, presumes i am guilty without any reasonable suspicion. first it's this, then it'll be the government enlisting your neighbors, your co-workers, your extended family, then your immediately family to report on your "activities."
no matter how hungry, poor, or energy dependent we are/get, i cannot conceive of place i'd rather not live in, than a place that does not value my privacy.
p.s. lets not forget, their are certain people that still want the government to intrude into [y]our bedroom.
We are living in a police state. Recording police on video cameras or cell phones has become a punishable offense where people are intimidated, have their phones confiscated, or are thrown into jail just for recording events in a public place. Whistleblowers have been prosecuted at an unbelievable rate while those perpetrating the exposed crimes go scot-free. American citizens are denied due process, or assassinated by drone strikes overseas.
Peaceful demonstrators at college campuses are maced en masse. The occupy movement was laced with government infiltrators and agent provocateurs. The media in this country is a tool of the corporate political state, designed to prevent you from getting any actual information, which of course explains why whistleblowers are prosecuted so severely.
Everything I write, which is essentially what I think, is subject to scrutiny by the government. Disagreeing with the government or challenging it in any way makes me an enemy of the state. You don't have to go very far to see people arrested, detained, abused, disappeared into black prisons, et cetera. At the very least this is a scare tactic designed to intimidate people and keep them from speaking their minds. In reality it is just another example of Totalitarianism.
isn't the american citizen who was killed in a drone strike overseas Anwar al-Awlaki, an al qaueda terrorist who wanted to harm my country? obama gets a pass on that one. if the other american citizens killed by drone strikes died because they were aiding terrorists that intended to hurt other americans, he gets a pass on that one too. the government's job is protect it's citizens, and that's what it did.
i don't know about people being denied due process. you could claim those mentioned above were denied due process, but to be fair they were unable to attend their trials due to the fact they were not alive.
the data mining thing was limited to information coming and going across US borders right? so they weren't collecting calls from illinois to ohio, it was only stuff crossing international borders. if that wasn't the case, it would fall outside the scope of the NSA and into the scope of the FBI. government can collect that data, and perhaps the reason people aren't that worked up is because this has been happening for decades. "project shamrock" started in 1945, where the government eavesdropped on telegraphs.
i can understand if you think what they're doing is wrong, but this is something they've been doing continually since the technical capability emerged. it shouldn't be a surprise. it's been tested in court and it is not a breach of the 4th amendment.
The data mining doesn't surprise me, I've assumed it for many years. But it bothers me. What bothers me mostly is not that they are doing it, but it is the potential sophistication of such operations. The capabilities of such systems in recording and coordinating and analyzing and programming are profound. It is already creepy and growing exponentially. I already know I feel creeped out when I see the effects of an entity recording my habits and then using them against me to influence my opinion. It changes the sphere of reality.
it's only creepy because we're all online volunteering information about ourselves to large corporations that collect data on a lot of people. the system doesn't work if you don't continually feed it.
I guess I'm saying the revelation of PRISM doesn't raise my paranoia about the evil misdeeds the government is capable of any higher than it was already (note: in general I'm very pro-big government for things like education, health care, environmental protections, investment in research,etc. Typical liberal causes.). I've never felt it impossible that the CIA could knock down my door someday either because of a mis-identification or because I did something stupid that pissed off the wrong person ("oops, I didn't mean to cut you off at daycare dropoff, Mr/Ms. FBI-agent-Having-A-Bad-Day!") and that I'd end up behind bars and really, really unable to defend myself because whoever jailed me didn't want to admit to a mistake.
The one place privacy gives me pause is bedroom/medical issues, e.g. abortion and birth control. Which is another way this topic is interesting: internet and cell data is non-physical. No one is thinking they can intercept and read the letters I put in the mail or the phone calls I make from within my home on a landline without warrants. But the internet is still undefined by our current laws, and is IMO moving too fast for any government to keep up, anyway. So again we, as architects, are faced with a non-physical world that hits up against our physical world unpredictably.
So labeling an American citizen a terrorist removes their right to due process? All you have to do is be accused of a crime and you're a "legal" target for assassination.
What about black prisons for "rendition", torture, indefinite detention without due process? What about Guantanamo? Are these the kind of ideals we uphold as a people and a nation?
probably not the ideals we uphold. as i understand it, the US has committed to not torturing so much. that was a bad idea, and they're backing off of it. unless i'm mistaken.
indefinite detention without due process probably refers to POWs right? what else would we do with foreign soldiers who are attacking our soldiers? it's pretty much lock them up as a POW or kill them or let them kill our people right? which one of those 3 options sounds best? fourth option is, of course, end our wars and quit starting new ones. quit voting for republicans. most of us can agree to that.
what would have done with al-Awlaki? can't kill him, can't throw him in jail (would have been difficult to get to him even if we wanted to). do you want those people killing american citizens? remember, terrorists are often targeting civilians, like the 9/11 attacks and the boston marathon bombing. are you condoning that?
rendition is rendition. it's a thing that happens, and pretty much has to happen. that implies we capture a fugitive and turn them over to the proper authorities. 'black prison' just means they have to be somewhere during that process, right? maybe i'm not understanding what you're talking about.
i have nothing against gitmo. having US land controlled by our military in cuba is a good thing. not that i think there will be another cuban missle crisis, but it's better to have it than not just in case. when obama tried to move gitmo prisoners back onto US mainland soil, pretty much every prison said NIMBY. i think we should treat prisoners as well as we can, whether they are in gitmo or not.
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