this building, with its external accretions, seems to exhibit the chaos/order and the complexity that many recent projects (especially student projects) are after. it's beautiful - no scripting, algorithms, or anything.
the question that this raises for me is whether too much of what architects are trying to do now suggests a built-in narrative instead of letting the building live its own narrative. buildings whose form suggest that something moved or bulged or was added may be attempts to prematurely create what might otherwise happen over time.
ive been holding this in for too long i have to spread my joy
theres a band called
gil mantera's party dream from youngstown ohio
they are the coolest band ever, i saw them by accident last winter and cant stop listening to them... i finally broke down and bought the album. its so cool
you have to go to their myspace page and listen to their songs, watch the video... holy shit... the video...
Steven- I would like that a lot, if the building inside was glass. It would be like you had plants for walls....
ARGGGGGGGGGGGHHHH! I am just going crazy today. Every little thing is just driving me up the wall. First of all, the heights on something got changed in some places, but not others, which is something that always, always, always bothers me. Then to top it off, nobody will admit that they were the ones who changed it!!! Come on, just have a spine and say, "I thought it would be better that way, sorry if I forgot about the details", instead of, "not me!" Then this guy in my office that has memorized a bunch of construction information and now seems to think that nobody else knows any just because it took him ten years to memorize it, comes over and starts trying to tell me how my project will be put together. Does he honestly think that he's telling me things I don't know already? I used to work for a fucking contractor, on EXACTLY the type of building I happen to be doing now, there's not much that somebody at his level is going to teach me about constructability. I'm not being a jerk and puffing myself up- there are a lot of people in this world that could teach me a lot, it's just that he's not one of them, particularly on this subject. It feels like he's just trying to make me look like I'm learning from him so that it's clear that he's above me. Well guess what? He's not. Any project manager here would much rather work with me than with him, and in the one project that we worked together on, the pm actually took some of his work and gave it to me because he was screwing up. Don't tell me when to shit just so you can take credit for the idea, buddy!
OK, apologies to thread central for that ugly rant. I just know that I'm getting a tad more ticked off than the situation really warrants, and am trying to spew it on here and not let my office see how pissed I'm getting about it.
this is the second time you've had an issue with a coworker talking
to you about details or designing something...and issues regarding
seniority/job titles/hierarchy type stuff...
is it possible that he was just trying to have a conversation and talk
about how he thought it would go together instead of trying to
demean you? does everyone know you worked for a contractor?
or are you seemingly new, young and therefore have the potential
to be inexperienced to those that have yet to work with you?
i guess bottom line is...yes..it's HIGHLY possible that he thinks he's
telling you things that you don't know already. and that he's trying
to be helpful..not disrespectful. there is something to be said for
experience even if he's still young. (as i recall from past posts
you're in your 20s?)
also it's highly probable that he's worked on several of the same
projects and has walked through a lot of job sites and done some/
alot of CA...so he's actually seen the detail in the field and seen/
talked to people putting it together (as have you)..not just
'memorized' it.
maybe there's something i'm not seeing..and maybe he's a dick..
but i'm not seeing it from what you're saying. it just seems to me
that you have trouble taking any kind of advice/info from people
around your own age...
No problem rationalist, TC is a good place for personal rants. In my experience it always feels better to get some big stressful concern (especially one you know you are probably overreacting about) off your chest! Even if it's not a solution, just stating your worries publicly (even here) really helps. Hope things got better.
sorry for the previous complete lack of empathy in my previous post.
i do totally understand issues with coworkers and how they can ruin
one's day...at the very least it's wednesday and there's a long
weekend coming up.
lars- yeah, that's why I said that I know I'm getting more ticked than the situation warrants, and why I'm saying it here, not to him. I understand that he probably does think that he's saying something that's new to me... which just makes me ticked that people underestimate me! Basically, I'm a pretty recent grad, but I did a LOT of internships in school, and seem do have done a lot more actual work in my internships than most, so I'm caught in a wierd place. While I've only been full-time for a year, I've been told that I'm as competent and productive as someone with five years experience by one of the firm's principals, and one of my previous employers still says I'm the best employee he's every had, and has let it stand that he'd have me back in a heartbeat. So there's a lot of times where I feel that people are talking down to me, because they are trying to teach me things that I've known for years. I see where they're coming from- just because someone's done internships, doesn't necessarily tell you much because they may have spent their time filing, you never know what their effective experience level is. So the people I haven't worked with a lot feel the need to instruct when it's not necessary. Until someone's done some real work with me they see me as just another young kid, they don't know better. But this particular guy is someone who doesn't put a ton of effort into his work, has gone ten years without getting started on his exams, then finally decided to take one, tried to just memorize stuff out of books to learn it, and failed the exam, but continues to spout off the stuff he memorized for it, out of the blue when nobody's asked him a question. He's quite annoying to pretty much everyone (he's also the one who brings his marital troubles to work), so I just felt especially ticked when he decides that he needs to teach me something that I really didn't ask for and already knew anyway.
whew. I didn't know I had that much rant left in me.
i totally understand...i had alot of the same issues when i was your age...i think the hardest thing to learn is humility when needed.
(although it's not necessarily needed here) and just dealing with the
work environment, in general...(there's always at least one person that's going to piss you off...or at least usually)
you probably haven't made any major
mistakes yet..and you think people are looking down on you
because you're young (23 as i recall now.) The truth of the matter
is that you don't really have that much experience although it does sound like you've had a wide range for your age.
i guess the only advice i would give is that you learn something
from anyone...(even if that includes how not to do something) and
that it's good to have a second set of eyes on things...
btw. i have over 10 years of experience and have yet to take any
tests. too much livin and haven't been all that worried about when
i get registered. (although i completed the IDP years ago.)
and i'm 33, so take my advice for what it's worth.
Here's something slightly embarassing that you guys will appreciate - maybe lighten your day, rationalist, or anyone else.
Thanks to abra's posting of building implosion videos on Channel Architect, and my irrational showing of said videos to my son, now whenever we see a building or a picture of a building, he asks excitedly "Is that building going to explode?!?"
Not a great thing for him to say if I'm ever out and run into one of my clients, huh? I'm at least trying to teach him to say "implosion" instead of "explosion"!
similar, but different...i once travelled with a group with a young kid in
it...long story short i just miss this train...like, it's moving, i have my
hand on the rail, my bags been hoisted in..and i then jump off cause
the conductor's yelling at me. anyway, the kid sees this..and apparently
the entire 10 hr trip (with the rest of the group) the kid was asking,
'karl (real name) go boom?'...which i always thought was sort of funny.
like i sort of exploded or something.
lars- my advice in turn for you, so you don't get viewed the way this guy does: when/if you do decide to take exams, don't go on about it all the time, so that if by some chance you don't pass, your whole office doesn't have to know. This guy was going on all the time about how he was finally going to do it, going to get licensed, etc, super confident even though it was his first test. Then of course everyone was asking him how it went, did he get the results yet. When he failed, he made excuses, but they all sounded lame after his earlier confidence. Convinced me that it's better to keep these things quiet until you've passed to aviod that sort of situation.
poor guy, but then again why be embarassed to fail a test? it's just a test.
i think one sign of maturity is the ability to take things (like architecture and tests) seriously but not yourself, or the people around you. so when you fuck up or someone else fucks up it just means we gotta fix the deal and move on.
that's one of the reasons i rather enjoy living in japan. you are expected to be responsible and when you screw up everyone works to fix the deal and you learn your lesson (if you don't you get fired, eventually). it can be a nice culture that way.
rationalist, I am in a similar situation (young, female, and interned since I was in high school) and find that it's natural for people to underestimate me initially. However, it just drives me to work harder, learn more, and prove that I am good at what I do.
If I feel that someone is talking down to me - which I guess doesn't seem to happen that often - I try to turn the lecture into a discussion to a) flex my knowledge and b) try to learn something I didn't already know. Everyone has had different experiences, and as larslarson stated, it's good to learn something from everyone.
I'm with you, though...being at the perceived bottom of the totem pole is difficult, but our moment in the sun will come eventually.
I'm realizing that if I were more like rationalist and vented out to you guys on here, instead of to some of my coworkers, I wouldn't get in trouble at work like I do. However, I'm starting to think that there might be a revolt if were canned so that makes me feel a little bit better. Plus I can hold my own in confrontation, which is always entertaining. At least I know now who to trust in my office. I just want the office to be progressive and take the advantages of technology that are available to us. Alas, that will never happen as long as certain people are in charge. Grad school, anyone?!
jump> correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the Japanese say, "fix the problem, not the blame"? I heard that years ago and I don't know if a philosophy has ever affected me so positively. We all make mistakes, it's how we rectify them that matters.
Also earlier today, in the midst of all my office drama, I decided that there is a reason that Americans distract themselves with reality television and the internet and stupid fads and celebrities.....it's because we don't have real problems like other countries do. You know, human rights abuses, systematic abuse of women, tribal disputes, etc. It's the first time I can remember ever being thankful for shite like Survivor.
wonderk, hm i am not so sure america doesn't have all those problems. we sure do gots enough of it in canada, at least where i grew up...
anyway, i haven't heard that saying in japanese, but it wouldn't surprise me if it existed...it sure is true of the way my office worked. i suspect it is true for most parts of society here, and i agree it is a brilliant way to see things.
lawyers are seldom called upon here, and personal responsibility is a serious expectation, which is very different from north america. i think that is where the image/myth of japanese as team players comes from. it is not quite reality.
i don't think it is a lack of valuing perfection and high quality, myriam. to the contrary japanese work very hard at it, as is clear in their auto's (which are totally kicking america's ass) and the architecture, like Sejima's, which is seriously fine-tuned.
the down side of the coin, at least in my old office, is that they really do expect you to learn as you go and no one will teach you anything if you don't take it upon yourself to ask. so a lot of people spend a lot of time doing nothing productive...but at least there isn't anyone talking down to you because of their superior knowledge....real or imagined.
hey TC-ers i have always been a sort of voyeur on the conversation...
but this one looked interesting.
i agree with you jump..."lawyers are seldom called upon here, and personal responsibility is a serious expectation, which is very different from north america."
when i was let go from my last job one of the common complaints was that i would say that i did not know and actually look it up...or find the answer. that was applauded by the clients, but my legally trained bosses were besided themselves...they told me to just act confident and tell them even if it in turn was wrong. i guess that is what i have hated so much about our society believing you have to know everything and have it ready to spit out if ever a problem arises!!
when the truth is we all know so little in the end. i seemlingly know more and more each day (and have been for over 10yrs) but still believe in the ethic of stepping up and claiming responsibilty when it is my fault. it still suprises people!
myriam, you'll like this. My husband brought home his new school-issued MacBookPro last night: so slick, so lightweight, dual processor, built in isight camera...it's beautiful. So totally separate from any operating system differences, I just don't understand why Apple can be so good at design (meaning both function and appearance) while no pc seems to give a damn. For example, is it too much to ask for a pc power cord that looks and functions like this:
instead of this:
Also, the new Mac has this magnetic power connection that means if someone trips on the cord it pops out of the socket and leaves your laptop safely sitting on the table - so smart.
lbelle, I have often wondered the same thing about PC laptop power cords!
So does this mean you're going to be a convert?! ;)
I never had a choice, I was raised in the religion. We had an LCII back in 1986! I probably haven't used a PC in about 4 years now, and I'm talking even to check email. My life is soooo simple... ;)
btw, the old power cords popped out, too. I step on mine all the time. The magnet is nifty, however! I do kinda like my glowing version, however... the light on it tells me if the computer is charged or not. I don't think the magnet ones do that.
I could easily convert if it made sense for our office. Right now the hardware cost outlay doesn't.
I hate that Macs scrollbar up/down buttons are both at the bottom of the screen, which seems counterintuitive to me - though that is a habit I could probably get over. I don't know if I could ever get over the lack of a right-click button, I'm very right-lick dependent, as in "If I don't know what this is, I'll just right-click it!"
raj, I feel like I know more and more each day, and yet more and more I feel like I know nothing! But taking responsibility for me is hugely important: I just found myself in a three-way argument between a plumber, GC, and owner, and basically just wanted someone to step up and say "These things happen, I'll take care of it." Thankfully the GC did. That's why I love working with him. But I also had to apologize to the owner for personally not handling the communication of this problem better, which he gratefully accepted.
lb - i've been a mac convert for the last 4 years...missing the 'right-click' as well, i just bought a two-button mouse w/ scroll wheel. works just dandy!
"the man that knows something knows that he knows nothing at all."
-Erykah Badu
ok, Saturday morning departure for Spain, via JFK and London Heathrow...I can't wait! 2 weeks of paid vacation. what a concept!
If i haven't mentioned it elsewhere, a friend and I traveling to Spain to participate in a 6 day study tour of Barcelona ("Urbanism and the Contemporary City") with our alma-mater. 2 of our favorite professors, 30 of our erstwhile peers, and at least one hospitable archinecter - MADianato... the other time will be split between San Sebastian, Spain and the Netherlands.
so, anyone interested in a postcard, drop me an email with your data.
The contractor, who has otherwise produced pretty decent work on a project, made a material substitution that we did not approve and we noticed it the week it was installed and immediately asked the contractor to put it on the next meeting agenda so that we could discuss it with the client. Contractor made excuses and dragged heels and a few weeks went by. (Not that the building is finished or anything--far from it!) Our concern grew as contractor stalled. Therefore we brought it up in a meeting very explicitly and forced contractor to deal with it, on record, with the client. Now the client is trying to hold us responsible, because we caught the mistake and blew the whistle. Client says we should have caught it earlier. (?!) We are already doing more CA than our contract calls for (2 visits is all that's required! I'm there 1-2 times PER WEEK). Client has free access to legal resources. I'm fucking pissed as hell to be held responsible for someone else's wrongdoing, which I am explicitly hired to find! Talk about solving a problem, not the blame. Problem isn't even huge, could have been easily solved if contractor had stepped up. Now we are facing a loss of lots of moolah.
mantaray, that sounds like bullshit. Contractor did something without approval, you brought it up in a meeting. I'd fight this one (knowing very little about the situation, of course).
"Also earlier today, in the midst of all my office drama, I decided that there is a reason that Americans distract themselves with reality television and the internet and stupid fads and celebrities.....it's because we don't have real problems like other countries do. You know, human rights abuses, systematic abuse of women, tribal disputes, etc. It's the first time I can remember ever being thankful for shite like Survivor."
WonderK, i beg to differ...you say 'we dont have real problems like other countries do'...i think our share of problems are rapidly overtaking even the developing countries. For example:
1. Katrina - the pictures even one year later are so heart-wrenching, i bet it wasn't so bad even after the tsunami.
2. the WTC site - its five years now and we still have a 'hole in the ground?' - i hate to use that cliched statement, but can find nothing better now -
3. we're fighting an unjustified war killing thousands of our own and civilians and most of this country still seems to think we did the right thing - at least in 2004
4. The failing public school system and an evergrowing number of techinically unskilled people our colleges are turning out, which in turn helps us lose jobs to other countries
5. Last but not least, most of the country not even being aware of these issues i just discussed.
I dont think americans distract themselves with survivor etc., but its the networks that feed us this bullshit because frankly the real picture of America's present and future looks very disturbing.
mantaray, just so you know/remember... your contract is with the client. he should be your first letter each time something goes wrong with the GC. it is weird and leads to what i was complaining about above:)
however, you cannot be required (no matter how the contract is set-up) to be a babysitter to someone who contracts to build AS PER YOUR DRAWINGS. what the GC is obviously doing is threatening the client now with delays and cost overruns. you are now stuck in the middle! meanwhile the client is stiffarming you to see if you wimp out.
send a letter (i like certified to add teeth) that states that since he has elected to not build to the contracted docs you see that as a termination of the current contract. i won't work, but hey sometimes it is just a spitting contest!
If your CD's were explicit, then you are not at fault. You and the client can tell the contractor to rip it out and re-do, and it comes out of their fee, not yours. This is, of course, assuming you have in your specs and general notes and conditions the "all substitutions must be approved" clause.
Also- did they ask your approval for other substitutions? If so, but they didn't ask about this one, then I'd say that you have a strong case that you didn't notice it sooner because the contractor was hiding it (though I wouldn't put it this way to the client unless it's pretty close to the change coming out of your pocket). Not following substitution procedure, then dragging their feet when the issue was brought up sounds to me like they were trying to slip something cheap by you to get a better profit out of the job.
I hate clients that get into a habit of sticking one party with all the mistakes. I've dealt with this from the other side- when I worked for a contractor, we had one client that consistantly made us tap into our contingency fee for non-contingency items. For instance, on one apartment building, days before it was due to open, the building inspector came by and was like, "where are the doorbells?" On the ground floor, accessible units only, as the plans very clearly specified. We did not legally have to put them in anywhere else- we knew it, the architect knew it, and probably the inspector knew it too, but they made us wire the whole damn building for it. The architect claimed that they had intended there to be doorbells everywhere, though their drawings showed and noted something entirely different. The client was angry at the extra expense, big meetings happened, and somehow the change came out of our contingency fee for like 160 new doorbells.
We wrote a complete, spelled out spec, the CDs are explicit, there are conditions everwhere that say "NO SUBSTITUTIONS WITHOUT ARCHITECT APPROVAL" etc etc etc, and they have gotten our written approval on everything else.
We are absolutely without fault in the mistake itself. Just apparently "did not bring it up fast enough." Even though it could still easily be changed, if it were called for. Installed of said item is not even complete yet, even though it is weeks later. Also we are not even calling for removal of said item; it isn't even warranted, really. There are other solutions available that contractor has finally agreed to. But somehow we're "responsible." (??) This means nonpayment of monies owed to us. Through threatening.
you're simply not responsible. you're not a party to the owner/contractor agreement. you're an agent of the owner and i'm guessing that nowhere in your contract does it say that you have to notice something 'in time' (in WHAT time?). in fact, if you had noticed this problem in a punch list, you could still ask that it be fixed at the contractor's expense.
this is really a non-issue and should go away. though it may take some contract-reading on your part.
If 'us' is a decent sized firm, and the moneys owed that are not being paid total an amount worth fighting for, it's time to call up your attorney and open up a file for this project. Make copies of all correspondence particularly related to this issue, but also some of other items that have been substituted successfully, so that you can demonstrate the standard procedure and that the contractor knew it and was capable of it. Hope it can be worked out without legal nastiness, but it sounds like you should be getting supporting documents together just in case.
This sucks for you, sounds like the contractor was being shady, and the client inconveniently blind about it.
i just found out the ah so dutifully finger pointing but totally inexperienced general contractor who also tries to be a designer, made an executice decision by centering my purposefully uncentered patio door openings. cutting the shear wall down by 12" in width....
hehehe. i am also the structural observer who has to sign... and cought the diversion at the foundation forms a la hold down location etc...
to make the long story short, she has to restore her feelings and my shear walls. nothing personal.
"to make the long story short, she has to restore her feelings and my shear walls. nothing personal."
nice, abra!
Also, sameolddoctor: I think what I was trying to say, which I didn't convey very clearly, is that we live in a country where things like systematic abuse of women and sharia law is unacceptable, whereas they are the status quo in many parts of the world. I completely agree with you on Katrina, the war, etc. Luckily there are enough of us that know these things need to be fixed that we are working on them, albeit slowly.
I'm going to bed before 11pm for the first time in months. Unbelievable. And all thanks to us hiring someone to draft a project for us! We need an employee. G'night, all.
i finished working today. first job after graduating from undergrad and it was great. though going out on a deadline was hectic. got home at 5 am this morning and slept for 3 hours and went back to work... but master's program starts in 4 weeks exactly.
somewhat overly climactic as we posted the 100% SD set today. just too much going on. taking off for 3 days in SF and then directly to taipei to see the 'rents and then over to beijing for sighseeing.
sorta weird how my life is about to change drastically again... maybe i'll get some learnin' done and actually contribute useful comments to archinect.
That's how it goes, ACfA: everything exciting piles up at once, or at least everything that needs attention and energy, whether it's exciting or not! Have fun on the upcoming travels - check in to TC when you can! - and good luck with school.
Alternatively, just quit your job, cancel your trip, and spend the next four weeks out-posting vado (and me) - your comments ARE useful, and typically funny, which is a use in itself a la the firmness, commodity and delight criteria!
sounds luxurious lb. we could use one here too, but way too poor still. and no certain work for a little while anyway. shitty thing about finding your own work is that it isn't always there when you want it to be...and vice versa...ah well.
i'm at the age where i'm starting to have several friends that are a few years older but have kids. which sorta freaks me out a bit, but that's beside the point...
i was at a friend's house for his bday party and i get there on the early side and am helping out making mojitos. said friend's 2 year old son comes w/ us to the yard to pick some mint. his dad's picking the mint and handing the leaves to his son, where upon I told him to smell the leaves in his hand. He takes a good sniff and his eyes just go completely wide with surprise and he lets out an astonished "Whoahhhhh!". That kind of innocence to the world just knocked me over. Wish I could see the world through those kind of eyes again. I bet it would do me wonders in grad school.
Thread Central
still just 8:01 here on the west coast...
That's because I'm actually doing some work around here today!
here in amsterdam its a couple minutes before 17:30. ahhhhhh
so glad that day is over!
to everyone just starting their work day - have a nice one!
from the image gallery this morning:
this building, with its external accretions, seems to exhibit the chaos/order and the complexity that many recent projects (especially student projects) are after. it's beautiful - no scripting, algorithms, or anything.
the question that this raises for me is whether too much of what architects are trying to do now suggests a built-in narrative instead of letting the building live its own narrative. buildings whose form suggest that something moved or bulged or was added may be attempts to prematurely create what might otherwise happen over time.
just some random thoughts.
so the scaffolding is permanent and they're growing something nice and leafy on it?
ive been holding this in for too long i have to spread my joy
theres a band called
gil mantera's party dream from youngstown ohio
they are the coolest band ever, i saw them by accident last winter and cant stop listening to them... i finally broke down and bought the album. its so cool
you have to go to their myspace page and listen to their songs, watch the video... holy shit... the video...
www.myspace.com/partydream
please, everyone trust me on this one
and if they are coming to town, go see them... most fun you'll have at a show
Steven- I would like that a lot, if the building inside was glass. It would be like you had plants for walls....
ARGGGGGGGGGGGHHHH! I am just going crazy today. Every little thing is just driving me up the wall. First of all, the heights on something got changed in some places, but not others, which is something that always, always, always bothers me. Then to top it off, nobody will admit that they were the ones who changed it!!! Come on, just have a spine and say, "I thought it would be better that way, sorry if I forgot about the details", instead of, "not me!" Then this guy in my office that has memorized a bunch of construction information and now seems to think that nobody else knows any just because it took him ten years to memorize it, comes over and starts trying to tell me how my project will be put together. Does he honestly think that he's telling me things I don't know already? I used to work for a fucking contractor, on EXACTLY the type of building I happen to be doing now, there's not much that somebody at his level is going to teach me about constructability. I'm not being a jerk and puffing myself up- there are a lot of people in this world that could teach me a lot, it's just that he's not one of them, particularly on this subject. It feels like he's just trying to make me look like I'm learning from him so that it's clear that he's above me. Well guess what? He's not. Any project manager here would much rather work with me than with him, and in the one project that we worked together on, the pm actually took some of his work and gave it to me because he was screwing up. Don't tell me when to shit just so you can take credit for the idea, buddy!
OK, apologies to thread central for that ugly rant. I just know that I'm getting a tad more ticked off than the situation really warrants, and am trying to spew it on here and not let my office see how pissed I'm getting about it.
rationalist...
this is the second time you've had an issue with a coworker talking
to you about details or designing something...and issues regarding
seniority/job titles/hierarchy type stuff...
is it possible that he was just trying to have a conversation and talk
about how he thought it would go together instead of trying to
demean you? does everyone know you worked for a contractor?
or are you seemingly new, young and therefore have the potential
to be inexperienced to those that have yet to work with you?
i guess bottom line is...yes..it's HIGHLY possible that he thinks he's
telling you things that you don't know already. and that he's trying
to be helpful..not disrespectful. there is something to be said for
experience even if he's still young. (as i recall from past posts
you're in your 20s?)
also it's highly probable that he's worked on several of the same
projects and has walked through a lot of job sites and done some/
alot of CA...so he's actually seen the detail in the field and seen/
talked to people putting it together (as have you)..not just
'memorized' it.
maybe there's something i'm not seeing..and maybe he's a dick..
but i'm not seeing it from what you're saying. it just seems to me
that you have trouble taking any kind of advice/info from people
around your own age...
No problem rationalist, TC is a good place for personal rants. In my experience it always feels better to get some big stressful concern (especially one you know you are probably overreacting about) off your chest! Even if it's not a solution, just stating your worries publicly (even here) really helps. Hope things got better.
here's some Rauschenberg for ya, rationalista
hope your day gets better...
sorry for the previous complete lack of empathy in my previous post.
i do totally understand issues with coworkers and how they can ruin
one's day...at the very least it's wednesday and there's a long
weekend coming up.
lars- yeah, that's why I said that I know I'm getting more ticked than the situation warrants, and why I'm saying it here, not to him. I understand that he probably does think that he's saying something that's new to me... which just makes me ticked that people underestimate me! Basically, I'm a pretty recent grad, but I did a LOT of internships in school, and seem do have done a lot more actual work in my internships than most, so I'm caught in a wierd place. While I've only been full-time for a year, I've been told that I'm as competent and productive as someone with five years experience by one of the firm's principals, and one of my previous employers still says I'm the best employee he's every had, and has let it stand that he'd have me back in a heartbeat. So there's a lot of times where I feel that people are talking down to me, because they are trying to teach me things that I've known for years. I see where they're coming from- just because someone's done internships, doesn't necessarily tell you much because they may have spent their time filing, you never know what their effective experience level is. So the people I haven't worked with a lot feel the need to instruct when it's not necessary. Until someone's done some real work with me they see me as just another young kid, they don't know better. But this particular guy is someone who doesn't put a ton of effort into his work, has gone ten years without getting started on his exams, then finally decided to take one, tried to just memorize stuff out of books to learn it, and failed the exam, but continues to spout off the stuff he memorized for it, out of the blue when nobody's asked him a question. He's quite annoying to pretty much everyone (he's also the one who brings his marital troubles to work), so I just felt especially ticked when he decides that he needs to teach me something that I really didn't ask for and already knew anyway.
whew. I didn't know I had that much rant left in me.
rationalist
i totally understand...i had alot of the same issues when i was your age...i think the hardest thing to learn is humility when needed.
(although it's not necessarily needed here) and just dealing with the
work environment, in general...(there's always at least one person that's going to piss you off...or at least usually)
you probably haven't made any major
mistakes yet..and you think people are looking down on you
because you're young (23 as i recall now.) The truth of the matter
is that you don't really have that much experience although it does sound like you've had a wide range for your age.
i guess the only advice i would give is that you learn something
from anyone...(even if that includes how not to do something) and
that it's good to have a second set of eyes on things...
btw. i have over 10 years of experience and have yet to take any
tests. too much livin and haven't been all that worried about when
i get registered. (although i completed the IDP years ago.)
and i'm 33, so take my advice for what it's worth.
Here's something slightly embarassing that you guys will appreciate - maybe lighten your day, rationalist, or anyone else.
Thanks to abra's posting of building implosion videos on Channel Architect, and my irrational showing of said videos to my son, now whenever we see a building or a picture of a building, he asks excitedly "Is that building going to explode?!?"
Not a great thing for him to say if I'm ever out and run into one of my clients, huh? I'm at least trying to teach him to say "implosion" instead of "explosion"!
lb
similar, but different...i once travelled with a group with a young kid in
it...long story short i just miss this train...like, it's moving, i have my
hand on the rail, my bags been hoisted in..and i then jump off cause
the conductor's yelling at me. anyway, the kid sees this..and apparently
the entire 10 hr trip (with the rest of the group) the kid was asking,
'karl (real name) go boom?'...which i always thought was sort of funny.
like i sort of exploded or something.
lars- my advice in turn for you, so you don't get viewed the way this guy does: when/if you do decide to take exams, don't go on about it all the time, so that if by some chance you don't pass, your whole office doesn't have to know. This guy was going on all the time about how he was finally going to do it, going to get licensed, etc, super confident even though it was his first test. Then of course everyone was asking him how it went, did he get the results yet. When he failed, he made excuses, but they all sounded lame after his earlier confidence. Convinced me that it's better to keep these things quiet until you've passed to aviod that sort of situation.
ha rationalist.
poor guy, but then again why be embarassed to fail a test? it's just a test.
i think one sign of maturity is the ability to take things (like architecture and tests) seriously but not yourself, or the people around you. so when you fuck up or someone else fucks up it just means we gotta fix the deal and move on.
that's one of the reasons i rather enjoy living in japan. you are expected to be responsible and when you screw up everyone works to fix the deal and you learn your lesson (if you don't you get fired, eventually). it can be a nice culture that way.
hmm, makes me realize that American culture can be very perfectionist.
rationalist, I am in a similar situation (young, female, and interned since I was in high school) and find that it's natural for people to underestimate me initially. However, it just drives me to work harder, learn more, and prove that I am good at what I do.
If I feel that someone is talking down to me - which I guess doesn't seem to happen that often - I try to turn the lecture into a discussion to a) flex my knowledge and b) try to learn something I didn't already know. Everyone has had different experiences, and as larslarson stated, it's good to learn something from everyone.
I'm with you, though...being at the perceived bottom of the totem pole is difficult, but our moment in the sun will come eventually.
Apparently my partner was talking to a tile guy on a site today.
Tile guy says "Let me show you a recent project I did" and opens camera-phone.
Up pops a picture of tile guy, naked.
Not only naked, but having a moment of, umm, self-admiration for his efforts.
Too bad I wasn't the one who made the site visit today.
I'm realizing that if I were more like rationalist and vented out to you guys on here, instead of to some of my coworkers, I wouldn't get in trouble at work like I do. However, I'm starting to think that there might be a revolt if were canned so that makes me feel a little bit better. Plus I can hold my own in confrontation, which is always entertaining. At least I know now who to trust in my office. I just want the office to be progressive and take the advantages of technology that are available to us. Alas, that will never happen as long as certain people are in charge. Grad school, anyone?!
jump> correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the Japanese say, "fix the problem, not the blame"? I heard that years ago and I don't know if a philosophy has ever affected me so positively. We all make mistakes, it's how we rectify them that matters.
Also earlier today, in the midst of all my office drama, I decided that there is a reason that Americans distract themselves with reality television and the internet and stupid fads and celebrities.....it's because we don't have real problems like other countries do. You know, human rights abuses, systematic abuse of women, tribal disputes, etc. It's the first time I can remember ever being thankful for shite like Survivor.
wonderk, hm i am not so sure america doesn't have all those problems. we sure do gots enough of it in canada, at least where i grew up...
anyway, i haven't heard that saying in japanese, but it wouldn't surprise me if it existed...it sure is true of the way my office worked. i suspect it is true for most parts of society here, and i agree it is a brilliant way to see things.
lawyers are seldom called upon here, and personal responsibility is a serious expectation, which is very different from north america. i think that is where the image/myth of japanese as team players comes from. it is not quite reality.
i don't think it is a lack of valuing perfection and high quality, myriam. to the contrary japanese work very hard at it, as is clear in their auto's (which are totally kicking america's ass) and the architecture, like Sejima's, which is seriously fine-tuned.
the down side of the coin, at least in my old office, is that they really do expect you to learn as you go and no one will teach you anything if you don't take it upon yourself to ask. so a lot of people spend a lot of time doing nothing productive...but at least there isn't anyone talking down to you because of their superior knowledge....real or imagined.
hey TC-ers i have always been a sort of voyeur on the conversation...
but this one looked interesting.
i agree with you jump..."lawyers are seldom called upon here, and personal responsibility is a serious expectation, which is very different from north america."
when i was let go from my last job one of the common complaints was that i would say that i did not know and actually look it up...or find the answer. that was applauded by the clients, but my legally trained bosses were besided themselves...they told me to just act confident and tell them even if it in turn was wrong. i guess that is what i have hated so much about our society believing you have to know everything and have it ready to spit out if ever a problem arises!!
when the truth is we all know so little in the end. i seemlingly know more and more each day (and have been for over 10yrs) but still believe in the ethic of stepping up and claiming responsibilty when it is my fault. it still suprises people!
myriam, you'll like this. My husband brought home his new school-issued MacBookPro last night: so slick, so lightweight, dual processor, built in isight camera...it's beautiful. So totally separate from any operating system differences, I just don't understand why Apple can be so good at design (meaning both function and appearance) while no pc seems to give a damn. For example, is it too much to ask for a pc power cord that looks and functions like this:
instead of this:
Also, the new Mac has this magnetic power connection that means if someone trips on the cord it pops out of the socket and leaves your laptop safely sitting on the table - so smart.
lbelle, I have often wondered the same thing about PC laptop power cords!
So does this mean you're going to be a convert?! ;)
I never had a choice, I was raised in the religion. We had an LCII back in 1986! I probably haven't used a PC in about 4 years now, and I'm talking even to check email. My life is soooo simple... ;)
btw, the old power cords popped out, too. I step on mine all the time. The magnet is nifty, however! I do kinda like my glowing version, however... the light on it tells me if the computer is charged or not. I don't think the magnet ones do that.
I could easily convert if it made sense for our office. Right now the hardware cost outlay doesn't.
I hate that Macs scrollbar up/down buttons are both at the bottom of the screen, which seems counterintuitive to me - though that is a habit I could probably get over. I don't know if I could ever get over the lack of a right-click button, I'm very right-lick dependent, as in "If I don't know what this is, I'll just right-click it!"
I do think Archinect looks better on a mac!
From my above post:
right-click
right-lick
right-click
oops...those are ALL supposed to read "right-click"
raj, I feel like I know more and more each day, and yet more and more I feel like I know nothing! But taking responsibility for me is hugely important: I just found myself in a three-way argument between a plumber, GC, and owner, and basically just wanted someone to step up and say "These things happen, I'll take care of it." Thankfully the GC did. That's why I love working with him. But I also had to apologize to the owner for personally not handling the communication of this problem better, which he gratefully accepted.
lb - i've been a mac convert for the last 4 years...missing the 'right-click' as well, i just bought a two-button mouse w/ scroll wheel. works just dandy!
...although, technically for me it's a 'left-click'
oh, and 'right-licks' sound more fun.
"the man that knows something knows that he knows nothing at all."
-Erykah Badu
ok, Saturday morning departure for Spain, via JFK and London Heathrow...I can't wait! 2 weeks of paid vacation. what a concept!
If i haven't mentioned it elsewhere, a friend and I traveling to Spain to participate in a 6 day study tour of Barcelona ("Urbanism and the Contemporary City") with our alma-mater. 2 of our favorite professors, 30 of our erstwhile peers, and at least one hospitable archinecter - MADianato... the other time will be split between San Sebastian, Spain and the Netherlands.
so, anyone interested in a postcard, drop me an email with your data.
It's my turn to vent.
The contractor, who has otherwise produced pretty decent work on a project, made a material substitution that we did not approve and we noticed it the week it was installed and immediately asked the contractor to put it on the next meeting agenda so that we could discuss it with the client. Contractor made excuses and dragged heels and a few weeks went by. (Not that the building is finished or anything--far from it!) Our concern grew as contractor stalled. Therefore we brought it up in a meeting very explicitly and forced contractor to deal with it, on record, with the client. Now the client is trying to hold us responsible, because we caught the mistake and blew the whistle. Client says we should have caught it earlier. (?!) We are already doing more CA than our contract calls for (2 visits is all that's required! I'm there 1-2 times PER WEEK). Client has free access to legal resources. I'm fucking pissed as hell to be held responsible for someone else's wrongdoing, which I am explicitly hired to find! Talk about solving a problem, not the blame. Problem isn't even huge, could have been easily solved if contractor had stepped up. Now we are facing a loss of lots of moolah.
mantaray, that sounds like bullshit. Contractor did something without approval, you brought it up in a meeting. I'd fight this one (knowing very little about the situation, of course).
AP, I'll be emailing you.....
"Also earlier today, in the midst of all my office drama, I decided that there is a reason that Americans distract themselves with reality television and the internet and stupid fads and celebrities.....it's because we don't have real problems like other countries do. You know, human rights abuses, systematic abuse of women, tribal disputes, etc. It's the first time I can remember ever being thankful for shite like Survivor."
WonderK, i beg to differ...you say 'we dont have real problems like other countries do'...i think our share of problems are rapidly overtaking even the developing countries. For example:
1. Katrina - the pictures even one year later are so heart-wrenching, i bet it wasn't so bad even after the tsunami.
2. the WTC site - its five years now and we still have a 'hole in the ground?' - i hate to use that cliched statement, but can find nothing better now -
3. we're fighting an unjustified war killing thousands of our own and civilians and most of this country still seems to think we did the right thing - at least in 2004
4. The failing public school system and an evergrowing number of techinically unskilled people our colleges are turning out, which in turn helps us lose jobs to other countries
5. Last but not least, most of the country not even being aware of these issues i just discussed.
I dont think americans distract themselves with survivor etc., but its the networks that feed us this bullshit because frankly the real picture of America's present and future looks very disturbing.
Who cares? I'm just gonna go get some White Castle and watch "The Ultimate Fighter" tonight.
mantaray, just so you know/remember... your contract is with the client. he should be your first letter each time something goes wrong with the GC. it is weird and leads to what i was complaining about above:)
however, you cannot be required (no matter how the contract is set-up) to be a babysitter to someone who contracts to build AS PER YOUR DRAWINGS. what the GC is obviously doing is threatening the client now with delays and cost overruns. you are now stuck in the middle! meanwhile the client is stiffarming you to see if you wimp out.
send a letter (i like certified to add teeth) that states that since he has elected to not build to the contracted docs you see that as a termination of the current contract. i won't work, but hey sometimes it is just a spitting contest!
If your CD's were explicit, then you are not at fault. You and the client can tell the contractor to rip it out and re-do, and it comes out of their fee, not yours. This is, of course, assuming you have in your specs and general notes and conditions the "all substitutions must be approved" clause.
Also- did they ask your approval for other substitutions? If so, but they didn't ask about this one, then I'd say that you have a strong case that you didn't notice it sooner because the contractor was hiding it (though I wouldn't put it this way to the client unless it's pretty close to the change coming out of your pocket). Not following substitution procedure, then dragging their feet when the issue was brought up sounds to me like they were trying to slip something cheap by you to get a better profit out of the job.
I hate clients that get into a habit of sticking one party with all the mistakes. I've dealt with this from the other side- when I worked for a contractor, we had one client that consistantly made us tap into our contingency fee for non-contingency items. For instance, on one apartment building, days before it was due to open, the building inspector came by and was like, "where are the doorbells?" On the ground floor, accessible units only, as the plans very clearly specified. We did not legally have to put them in anywhere else- we knew it, the architect knew it, and probably the inspector knew it too, but they made us wire the whole damn building for it. The architect claimed that they had intended there to be doorbells everywhere, though their drawings showed and noted something entirely different. The client was angry at the extra expense, big meetings happened, and somehow the change came out of our contingency fee for like 160 new doorbells.
We wrote a complete, spelled out spec, the CDs are explicit, there are conditions everwhere that say "NO SUBSTITUTIONS WITHOUT ARCHITECT APPROVAL" etc etc etc, and they have gotten our written approval on everything else.
We are absolutely without fault in the mistake itself. Just apparently "did not bring it up fast enough." Even though it could still easily be changed, if it were called for. Installed of said item is not even complete yet, even though it is weeks later. Also we are not even calling for removal of said item; it isn't even warranted, really. There are other solutions available that contractor has finally agreed to. But somehow we're "responsible." (??) This means nonpayment of monies owed to us. Through threatening.
you're simply not responsible. you're not a party to the owner/contractor agreement. you're an agent of the owner and i'm guessing that nowhere in your contract does it say that you have to notice something 'in time' (in WHAT time?). in fact, if you had noticed this problem in a punch list, you could still ask that it be fixed at the contractor's expense.
this is really a non-issue and should go away. though it may take some contract-reading on your part.
Also, rationalist, that's really shitty. Puts things in perspective since most of us only ever see the architect's side of things.
Thanks raj and rationalist and Steven. I feel better after the points about the contractor seeking approval and about what 'in time' means.
If 'us' is a decent sized firm, and the moneys owed that are not being paid total an amount worth fighting for, it's time to call up your attorney and open up a file for this project. Make copies of all correspondence particularly related to this issue, but also some of other items that have been substituted successfully, so that you can demonstrate the standard procedure and that the contractor knew it and was capable of it. Hope it can be worked out without legal nastiness, but it sounds like you should be getting supporting documents together just in case.
This sucks for you, sounds like the contractor was being shady, and the client inconveniently blind about it.
i just found out the ah so dutifully finger pointing but totally inexperienced general contractor who also tries to be a designer, made an executice decision by centering my purposefully uncentered patio door openings. cutting the shear wall down by 12" in width....
hehehe. i am also the structural observer who has to sign... and cought the diversion at the foundation forms a la hold down location etc...
to make the long story short, she has to restore her feelings and my shear walls. nothing personal.
"to make the long story short, she has to restore her feelings and my shear walls. nothing personal."
nice, abra!
Also, sameolddoctor: I think what I was trying to say, which I didn't convey very clearly, is that we live in a country where things like systematic abuse of women and sharia law is unacceptable, whereas they are the status quo in many parts of the world. I completely agree with you on Katrina, the war, etc. Luckily there are enough of us that know these things need to be fixed that we are working on them, albeit slowly.
I'm going to bed before 11pm for the first time in months. Unbelievable. And all thanks to us hiring someone to draft a project for us! We need an employee. G'night, all.
holy crap.
i'm done.
i finished working today. first job after graduating from undergrad and it was great. though going out on a deadline was hectic. got home at 5 am this morning and slept for 3 hours and went back to work... but master's program starts in 4 weeks exactly.
somewhat overly climactic as we posted the 100% SD set today. just too much going on. taking off for 3 days in SF and then directly to taipei to see the 'rents and then over to beijing for sighseeing.
sorta weird how my life is about to change drastically again... maybe i'll get some learnin' done and actually contribute useful comments to archinect.
Congrats, AP! Wow!
That's how it goes, ACfA: everything exciting piles up at once, or at least everything that needs attention and energy, whether it's exciting or not! Have fun on the upcoming travels - check in to TC when you can! - and good luck with school.
Alternatively, just quit your job, cancel your trip, and spend the next four weeks out-posting vado (and me) - your comments ARE useful, and typically funny, which is a use in itself a la the firmness, commodity and delight criteria!
sounds luxurious lb. we could use one here too, but way too poor still. and no certain work for a little while anyway. shitty thing about finding your own work is that it isn't always there when you want it to be...and vice versa...ah well.
enjoy hols, acfa.
little kids knock me out:
i'm at the age where i'm starting to have several friends that are a few years older but have kids. which sorta freaks me out a bit, but that's beside the point...
i was at a friend's house for his bday party and i get there on the early side and am helping out making mojitos. said friend's 2 year old son comes w/ us to the yard to pick some mint. his dad's picking the mint and handing the leaves to his son, where upon I told him to smell the leaves in his hand. He takes a good sniff and his eyes just go completely wide with surprise and he lets out an astonished "Whoahhhhh!". That kind of innocence to the world just knocked me over. Wish I could see the world through those kind of eyes again. I bet it would do me wonders in grad school.
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