finished it and read a different book since then. "gang leader for a day" about the gang life within the robert taylor homes in the late 80s / early 90s. fascinating but ultimately pretty biased...
it was interesting, but in the end the author didn't seem to be capable of being critical of the gang. he *said* he was trying to see both sides of what the gang did -- the positive : they enforce a code of ethics in the absence of any police intervention, yes, but *also* : they destroy lives and families and little children by bringing enormous amounts of extremely addictive narcotics and guns into the ghetto. yes, they "controlled" the use of those guns, and sure, they supposedly had an ethical code where they wouldn't sell drugs around children, etc., but excuse me, those guns and those drugs wouldn't have come into the community in the first place if the gang hadn't been the conduit to bring them in. It was a fascinating read, and very eye-opening, but unfortunately the author simply ended up extolling the virtues of the gang and really left a lot of open questions about the BAD side of the gang. (hellooooo...)
He also admitted he was studying one of the most organized and, essentially, careful gangs in the city (if not THE most) -- yet he extrapolates all his findings from them. There were plenty of other gangs out there -- partly feeding off the gang culture that the gang he studied had fostered -- and they were much less organized, much less predictable, and much less "helpful" to their community.
anyway... so yeah. it was a good read but left me annoyed. plus he's kind of arrogant and it grates on you after awhile.
plus he talked a lot about how the community needed the gang to protect them since the cops wouldn't come near their projects -- which is well-documented and seemingly quite true -- but he never digs any further into WHY the cops wouldn't come near the projects. The projects were only built in the 60s. By all accounts -- including the author's own research -- the early days of the projects were pretty stable and community-oriented. So at some point things deteriorated to the point where the cops would no longer come in, and the gang (supposedly) simply stepped into this power vacuum to protect the people from themselves. But there's an obvious missing link (or two) here and, while he himself recounted this history, he completely neglected to look into these gaps. He never even attempts to answer the question "where did this gang come from and how did it get so powerful in the first place? why did the cops leave in the first place? what came first, the gang, or the police desertion?"
you can't come to any kind of understanding of the underground systems of the projects without knowing the answers to these questions, and it annoyed me that he tiptoed right up to the edge of them -- peered over -- and then turned around and walked away.
Vado- pased the LARE way back. I've been waiting for the clock to tick down to the required amount of 'experience' before I could apply for the stamp. the ASLA seems to only care that I passed the exam or that I've paid dues for long enough as an associate...
mantaray are you thinking about the Architectural Review? Funny if that is the one you missed because it some many ways the name is over-obvious. But you are right Nam would be an excellent addition to those publications, namely because he is untainted by the cynicism and boot licking that pervades the profession.
Manta,
Venkatesh's first two books were really impactful on me.
They helped to bring home for me the importance of government investment in communities on the edge of collapse, but also the resiliency of humans when faced with such situations.
I reviewed both on my blog, i think.
I haven't read his latest though.
But from what i remember he is very clear in those two that yes the gangs fufilled a needed social role(s). But that the void was caused by the major conservative disinvestment policies of the which sequentiality gutted the social fabric (ie; housing, education, jobs, policing, et al).
That was actually the most striking part for me. Because he was not shy about placing blame.
ah. There is absolutely no blame placed nor any analysis of potential causation in the Gang book. Simply a descriptive piece with very little larger import. I didn't realize he'd written anything else or I might have read it instead. This third must be his "fluff" piece? It's certainly fascinating and I'm glad I read it -- it opened my eyes and made me want to learn more, so that's always good!
They will be your children who will have the high-speed motorboat this evening.
You will forget of them all worries of your day.
horoscopes are always a bit daft...but they are even more per-like entertaining when poorly translated from a foreign language.
i'm not sure i agree with the pregnant concert. a friend of mine was something like eight months pregnant just this past week when she lost her baby. aside from the physical discomfort/pain, it must be a significant emotional punch. i cannot fathom how difficult it must be to be in her shoes right now.
Wow, puddles, way to be a buzz-kill. Maybe they had all the soundwaves pointing away from the stage so as not to bug the fetus.
I can't beleive you guys took up a whole two pages in one day! It took me forever to catch up. Where was I, you ask? Well, SUnday night, I decided that I wasnt doing anything, so I might as well poison my husband, and myself. Yeah. Heres a tip to any who make their own pasta dough....Dont make it, let it sit out, put it in the fridge, pull it out, and repeat the process for three days. You won't like the night to come.
Also, it was strange hearing the prez talk about Elkhart. I grew up in Elkhart, TX - pop. 1215. Yeah. Nothing much there. I don't think many of the people are employed anyway, so the rate cant be that bad.
Both of my parents grew up in the projects in Chicago, both Robert Taylor and Cabrini Greens. My mom particularly remembers the year that drugs arrived at the Projects. To her it was an overnight downward spiral into hell. These were good, clean, simple housing establishments that became ground zero for the disintegration of generations. So from the many first hand accounts I've heard from many family members, the gangs stepped in as protection once the police backed away. Of course that so called protection was just as detrimental.
LB thanks so much for your help, yes this is my first freelance job on my own, so a lot of questions have come up that I feel I should know the answer to, but the answers are escaping me.
Dapper: yes you should know the answers but not yet! There is an important tradition of mentoring in our profession; that is how we ALL learned. Don't be embarrassed about asking questions. I'm just happy that I can mentor via archinect since I don't have any employees!
On a side note, I am being interviewed today for a project about people who live in Los Angeles without cars. Then having my picture taken. Should be fun! I'll let you know how it goes. :o)
I tried searching for a thread for images of house plants, vegetal walls, gardens, flower fields, horticulture, landscape architecture, botany, etc. I could not find one searching. Does anyone know of one?
i dint have a car from age 19 to 36. a lot of that time was spent in albucrackee where its harder not to have a car than l.a. the government can send me my carbon credits now...
I am 27, have never owned a car, and live in South Florida where people seem to think public transportation is no good. Having a car costs money and, if I had a car, I would only use it go places to spend more money. As long as I can get to work, I am OK. If I suddenly need a car to get to work, I will get a car. I also hate driving, because there is too much turning of the wheel and keeping track of which pedal to press.
Techno, that 'note' is actually a painted piece of card-stock already adhered with double stick tape. You guys really think it looks ok? If so, I'll leave it be, and just write my prose on the backside. Oh, and you can consider it your early valentine.
Oh, and I've been thinking about it all day, and yes, I know I'm late, but I really hated M.I.A's outfit. It wasn't because she was pregnant, it was because I thought the outfit was ugly, and unflattering. I thought she looked like a cross between a clown and a hooker.
called my mum today and she kept on talking about the lady with the kids. i forgot for awhile that news in canada/usa is very voyeuristic. not that that many kids at one go is not news, but is it really THAT big a deal? i had to tell her to change the subject cuz she was being all judged-mental and shit...
archi, i thought you were coming to work with us!
today is national holiday. foundation day. commemorating ascension of fabled first emperor in 660 BC. im planning to laze about the house cuz its bloody cold outside.
Jump, I think the bigger issue with the 'octo-mom' is that the State will have to pay for their care. Funny that I was all against paying ofr other peoples stuff with my hard earned money and people acted like I was cold. But now, people are pissed that they will have to pay for her kids?
kid factory is extreme example. some would like to say is exception that proves the rule. i don't see it that way.
i think it is still mostly voyeur-istic. my mum doesn't care about paying for kids. she's canadian and thinks that is normal. nah, she just liked the freakiness of it somehow...so strange.
funny about that hard-earned money thing. isn't it a privilege of citizenship to pay taxes to help others, to invest in your nation's future, to ensure children are not raised bereft of medicine and food, and to ensure that everyone has access to good education, etc....or is it best that everyone fend for themselves? no more unemployment cheques, no more postal service, no more cops, unless you can afford it? that kind of stuff feels like a slippery slope to me. am sure george will has a good rebuttal, but it still worries me.
Sarah, if a family has two kids, loses their jobs, and then has to turn to the government for assistance, that's one thing. Aren't you getting unemployment benefits as well? I mean, that makes sense, and I empathize. It's another thing entirely if Octo-Mom, who can't pay for the kids she already has, keeps going to the "baby vending machine" as it were and getting more babies that she can't pay for. Also I read somewhere that she thinks she can take care of them with student loans. Um, I have student loans, and I can barely take care of myself, and she doesn't live too far from me...I would like to know what parallel universe she thinks she lives in.
Speaking of Southern California, not having a car here is apparently a big deal to some people, thus the project. The interview went well and I think the pictures will turn out also. It's primarily a photography project I think, so the interview will probably turn into something like a blurb in a caption next to my picture. n400, my reasons for getting rid of my car were financial, environmental, and mainly, experimental. I like to challenge myself. So far, so good. :-D
i understand your argument about the baby-lady and her odd ideas about how to pay for kids, but the fact that we are even talking about it is very surreal to me. why is it our business? worse, why do we even care? its like midget wrestling suddenly making national news ;-)
you know i thought those fertility clinics were expensive. didn't know folks living on the dole could get it too.
i lived in michigan without a car for about four years. rarely ventured beyond about a 5 mile walking radius during that time. when i first moved to the caribbean, people would ask me "how are you going to cope with living on such a small island?" but what they didn't realize is that i already was living on a small island. it was more strange to how many of them seem to need to drive 10-50 miles just to see grandma, childhood dentist, mall or mega-walmart.
anyhow, i love how the internet provides portals into random peoples live. here's my new favourite blog[...if only these people knew that a weirdo like me was checking them out. how creepy!
Hi all,
Re: "Octo" lady
The bigger and less subjective imho concerns are twofold,
There is some question as to how she "paid" for the 300,000 odd dollars that such fertility treatment would cost and whether or not the state is going to be stuck with the bill.
And two, there are reports that the fertility doctor ignored ethical guidelines which suggest no more than 2-3 embryos be implanted in a woman of her age and medical history..
Anywho, honestly i could care less but still. Seems crazy to me. While i wan't children i certainly wouldn't want that many, especially not given the current economic situation..and the costs involved with raising children
I can't talk about octo-baby-lady, it makes me so furious and despairing on so many levels that I refuse to engage with it, and that's all I'll say. I just figured I should say SOMETHING since I'm usually the baby-crazy poster and I've been silent on her so far.
Yes, I am on umemployment, but its because the company I worked for paid for it. Maybe I dont fully understand how it all works. I think most people's problem witht he woman is the same problem people have with women who continue to have children on welfare just to make more money. Thats, all. I'm done with it.
So I think I'm going to make cinnamin rolls for V-day.
Oh, and I just saw something really interesting on Today....Lincoln freed the slaves in the South because the North was losing, and he needed soldiers. It wasnt until a few years later that he actually thought they were equal. Also, that Illinois actually had a law to keep blacks from settling there. Crazy stuff. Makes me wish that PBS would come in tonight so I could watch the special.
Thread Central
finished it and read a different book since then. "gang leader for a day" about the gang life within the robert taylor homes in the late 80s / early 90s. fascinating but ultimately pretty biased...
i heard of that one...
it was interesting, but in the end the author didn't seem to be capable of being critical of the gang. he *said* he was trying to see both sides of what the gang did -- the positive : they enforce a code of ethics in the absence of any police intervention, yes, but *also* : they destroy lives and families and little children by bringing enormous amounts of extremely addictive narcotics and guns into the ghetto. yes, they "controlled" the use of those guns, and sure, they supposedly had an ethical code where they wouldn't sell drugs around children, etc., but excuse me, those guns and those drugs wouldn't have come into the community in the first place if the gang hadn't been the conduit to bring them in. It was a fascinating read, and very eye-opening, but unfortunately the author simply ended up extolling the virtues of the gang and really left a lot of open questions about the BAD side of the gang. (hellooooo...)
He also admitted he was studying one of the most organized and, essentially, careful gangs in the city (if not THE most) -- yet he extrapolates all his findings from them. There were plenty of other gangs out there -- partly feeding off the gang culture that the gang he studied had fostered -- and they were much less organized, much less predictable, and much less "helpful" to their community.
anyway... so yeah. it was a good read but left me annoyed. plus he's kind of arrogant and it grates on you after awhile.
plus he talked a lot about how the community needed the gang to protect them since the cops wouldn't come near their projects -- which is well-documented and seemingly quite true -- but he never digs any further into WHY the cops wouldn't come near the projects. The projects were only built in the 60s. By all accounts -- including the author's own research -- the early days of the projects were pretty stable and community-oriented. So at some point things deteriorated to the point where the cops would no longer come in, and the gang (supposedly) simply stepped into this power vacuum to protect the people from themselves. But there's an obvious missing link (or two) here and, while he himself recounted this history, he completely neglected to look into these gaps. He never even attempts to answer the question "where did this gang come from and how did it get so powerful in the first place? why did the cops leave in the first place? what came first, the gang, or the police desertion?"
you can't come to any kind of understanding of the underground systems of the projects without knowing the answers to these questions, and it annoyed me that he tiptoed right up to the edge of them -- peered over -- and then turned around and walked away.
Vado- pased the LARE way back. I've been waiting for the clock to tick down to the required amount of 'experience' before I could apply for the stamp. the ASLA seems to only care that I passed the exam or that I've paid dues for long enough as an associate...
mantaray are you thinking about the Architectural Review? Funny if that is the one you missed because it some many ways the name is over-obvious. But you are right Nam would be an excellent addition to those publications, namely because he is untainted by the cynicism and boot licking that pervades the profession.
yes! thank you, techno! my second-fave architecture publication, and here i forgot the name. sheesh.
Manta,
Venkatesh's first two books were really impactful on me.
They helped to bring home for me the importance of government investment in communities on the edge of collapse, but also the resiliency of humans when faced with such situations.
I reviewed both on my blog, i think.
I haven't read his latest though.
But from what i remember he is very clear in those two that yes the gangs fufilled a needed social role(s). But that the void was caused by the major conservative disinvestment policies of the which sequentiality gutted the social fabric (ie; housing, education, jobs, policing, et al).
That was actually the most striking part for me. Because he was not shy about placing blame.
Oh and thanks Archi.
ah. There is absolutely no blame placed nor any analysis of potential causation in the Gang book. Simply a descriptive piece with very little larger import. I didn't realize he'd written anything else or I might have read it instead. This third must be his "fluff" piece? It's certainly fascinating and I'm glad I read it -- it opened my eyes and made me want to learn more, so that's always good!
Yeah i think it was probably his "non-academy" book for the larger public, after he had achived tenure!
Morning all.
You will forget of them all worries of your day.
horoscopes are always a bit daft...but they are even more per-like entertaining when poorly translated from a foreign language.
i'm not sure i agree with the pregnant concert. a friend of mine was something like eight months pregnant just this past week when she lost her baby. aside from the physical discomfort/pain, it must be a significant emotional punch. i cannot fathom how difficult it must be to be in her shoes right now.
Wow, puddles, way to be a buzz-kill. Maybe they had all the soundwaves pointing away from the stage so as not to bug the fetus.
I can't beleive you guys took up a whole two pages in one day! It took me forever to catch up. Where was I, you ask? Well, SUnday night, I decided that I wasnt doing anything, so I might as well poison my husband, and myself. Yeah. Heres a tip to any who make their own pasta dough....Dont make it, let it sit out, put it in the fridge, pull it out, and repeat the process for three days. You won't like the night to come.
Also, it was strange hearing the prez talk about Elkhart. I grew up in Elkhart, TX - pop. 1215. Yeah. Nothing much there. I don't think many of the people are employed anyway, so the rate cant be that bad.
good morning. I'm still tired - going to have another nap...bye
about crazy mothers and pregnancies...Salma Hayek - involves breast feeding
Both of my parents grew up in the projects in Chicago, both Robert Taylor and Cabrini Greens. My mom particularly remembers the year that drugs arrived at the Projects. To her it was an overnight downward spiral into hell. These were good, clean, simple housing establishments that became ground zero for the disintegration of generations. So from the many first hand accounts I've heard from many family members, the gangs stepped in as protection once the police backed away. Of course that so called protection was just as detrimental.
LB thanks so much for your help, yes this is my first freelance job on my own, so a lot of questions have come up that I feel I should know the answer to, but the answers are escaping me.
Dapper: yes you should know the answers but not yet! There is an important tradition of mentoring in our profession; that is how we ALL learned. Don't be embarrassed about asking questions. I'm just happy that I can mentor via archinect since I don't have any employees!
techno, i'm sorry, but i had to do a double take on the words Selma and Breast Feeding.....
Salma loverz ...now thazz wha i call a F'ing Show
oh no! vampires!
Techno, that was so sad! At least it had a happy ending, sort of, but still.
On another note.. I feel like this is missing something, what do y'all think?
Sarah, you just made me long for drafting dots. Oh how I miss drafting dots!
Well this took me a while today, which is the only reason I'd recommend it. Sometimes my blogs are afterthoughts, this one, not so much.
On a side note, I am being interviewed today for a project about people who live in Los Angeles without cars. Then having my picture taken. Should be fun! I'll let you know how it goes. :o)
Hearts Sarah...Hearts!
yeah, right, snook.
I tried searching for a thread for images of house plants, vegetal walls, gardens, flower fields, horticulture, landscape architecture, botany, etc. I could not find one searching. Does anyone know of one?
hey EK having your picture taken for not having a car? That's awesome... you are my eco-hero!!
Sarah the card looks great, just stick that little note down and call it a day. Handmade cards for valentines totally rock!!
Liberty I'll be your employee anyday - even if just to make the coffee
vado best part of that vid is at 3:15 when she serves him whiskey
i dint have a car from age 19 to 36. a lot of that time was spent in albucrackee where its harder not to have a car than l.a. the government can send me my carbon credits now...
I am 27, have never owned a car, and live in South Florida where people seem to think public transportation is no good. Having a car costs money and, if I had a car, I would only use it go places to spend more money. As long as I can get to work, I am OK. If I suddenly need a car to get to work, I will get a car. I also hate driving, because there is too much turning of the wheel and keeping track of which pedal to press.
I'm nervous now. I commend people who don't have cars for environmental reasons, but my reasons are financial. Emily, please tell us how it goes.
Techno, that 'note' is actually a painted piece of card-stock already adhered with double stick tape. You guys really think it looks ok? If so, I'll leave it be, and just write my prose on the backside. Oh, and you can consider it your early valentine.
Oh, and I've been thinking about it all day, and yes, I know I'm late, but I really hated M.I.A's outfit. It wasn't because she was pregnant, it was because I thought the outfit was ugly, and unflattering. I thought she looked like a cross between a clown and a hooker.
i like my clowns to look like hookers.
called my mum today and she kept on talking about the lady with the kids. i forgot for awhile that news in canada/usa is very voyeuristic. not that that many kids at one go is not news, but is it really THAT big a deal? i had to tell her to change the subject cuz she was being all judged-mental and shit...
archi, i thought you were coming to work with us!
today is national holiday. foundation day. commemorating ascension of fabled first emperor in 660 BC. im planning to laze about the house cuz its bloody cold outside.
Jump, I think the bigger issue with the 'octo-mom' is that the State will have to pay for their care. Funny that I was all against paying ofr other peoples stuff with my hard earned money and people acted like I was cold. But now, people are pissed that they will have to pay for her kids?
yeah i saw that on the news, sarah.
kid factory is extreme example. some would like to say is exception that proves the rule. i don't see it that way.
i think it is still mostly voyeur-istic. my mum doesn't care about paying for kids. she's canadian and thinks that is normal. nah, she just liked the freakiness of it somehow...so strange.
funny about that hard-earned money thing. isn't it a privilege of citizenship to pay taxes to help others, to invest in your nation's future, to ensure children are not raised bereft of medicine and food, and to ensure that everyone has access to good education, etc....or is it best that everyone fend for themselves? no more unemployment cheques, no more postal service, no more cops, unless you can afford it? that kind of stuff feels like a slippery slope to me. am sure george will has a good rebuttal, but it still worries me.
Sarah, if a family has two kids, loses their jobs, and then has to turn to the government for assistance, that's one thing. Aren't you getting unemployment benefits as well? I mean, that makes sense, and I empathize. It's another thing entirely if Octo-Mom, who can't pay for the kids she already has, keeps going to the "baby vending machine" as it were and getting more babies that she can't pay for. Also I read somewhere that she thinks she can take care of them with student loans. Um, I have student loans, and I can barely take care of myself, and she doesn't live too far from me...I would like to know what parallel universe she thinks she lives in.
Speaking of Southern California, not having a car here is apparently a big deal to some people, thus the project. The interview went well and I think the pictures will turn out also. It's primarily a photography project I think, so the interview will probably turn into something like a blurb in a caption next to my picture. n400, my reasons for getting rid of my car were financial, environmental, and mainly, experimental. I like to challenge myself. So far, so good. :-D
thas kool, Emily.
i understand your argument about the baby-lady and her odd ideas about how to pay for kids, but the fact that we are even talking about it is very surreal to me. why is it our business? worse, why do we even care? its like midget wrestling suddenly making national news ;-)
you know i thought those fertility clinics were expensive. didn't know folks living on the dole could get it too.
I'm still alive.
So many things to say (octo-mom, car owning, national financial clusterf$%*) just not enough time to write them. Hopefully at lunch.
i lived in michigan without a car for about four years. rarely ventured beyond about a 5 mile walking radius during that time. when i first moved to the caribbean, people would ask me "how are you going to cope with living on such a small island?" but what they didn't realize is that i already was living on a small island. it was more strange to how many of them seem to need to drive 10-50 miles just to see grandma, childhood dentist, mall or mega-walmart.
anyhow, i love how the internet provides portals into random peoples live. here's my new favourite blog[...if only these people knew that a weirdo like me was checking them out. how creepy!
Scrapbooking goes virtual! About damn time!!!
it's more than just scrapbooking...it's one of the "cutest blogs on the block"!!!
almost makes string-emil look like an amatuer
Hi all,
Re: "Octo" lady
The bigger and less subjective imho concerns are twofold,
There is some question as to how she "paid" for the 300,000 odd dollars that such fertility treatment would cost and whether or not the state is going to be stuck with the bill.
And two, there are reports that the fertility doctor ignored ethical guidelines which suggest no more than 2-3 embryos be implanted in a woman of her age and medical history..
Anywho, honestly i could care less but still. Seems crazy to me. While i wan't children i certainly wouldn't want that many, especially not given the current economic situation..and the costs involved with raising children
I can't talk about octo-baby-lady, it makes me so furious and despairing on so many levels that I refuse to engage with it, and that's all I'll say. I just figured I should say SOMETHING since I'm usually the baby-crazy poster and I've been silent on her so far.
if eight babies is too many...then why don't they just kill the weakest ones? that'd be the easiest thing to do
puddles you can always make me laugh!
puddles- are you thinking the octo-mom can solve world hunger a la soylent green?
Puddles isn't it actually 13 becase sh ealready had 6?
So even more food. Mmmmm
Good Morning, all.
Yes, I am on umemployment, but its because the company I worked for paid for it. Maybe I dont fully understand how it all works. I think most people's problem witht he woman is the same problem people have with women who continue to have children on welfare just to make more money. Thats, all. I'm done with it.
So I think I'm going to make cinnamin rolls for V-day.
Oh, and I just saw something really interesting on Today....Lincoln freed the slaves in the South because the North was losing, and he needed soldiers. It wasnt until a few years later that he actually thought they were equal. Also, that Illinois actually had a law to keep blacks from settling there. Crazy stuff. Makes me wish that PBS would come in tonight so I could watch the special.
octomommies issue isn't about having babies she can't afford. it's about her mental health, which is really in question here.
True that vado. I'm up to my eyeballs with work.
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.