Wow, the group thought and jumping to conclusions is worse than ever. Did I say we WEREN'T looking for work? (It is hard to get work when our last 2 proposals, the principal had our own firm's name spelled wrong in the cover letter. I wouldn't recommend this. He insists it's fine because nobody reads them anyways.)
well there have been precious few non dynastic/monarchical states in the history of the world. so it is rare air. plus four of those years we were having a civil war. and the selection of a democratic candidate in 68 was not very peaceful either. plus when you figure in the peacefully elected governments that we helped overthrow, well i'm just sayin'...
i have feeling your office mates are raising voices too late.
obama is way cool. kinda sad cuz now our canadian pm misconduct will look like what it is. with W in charge mediocre leadership looked pretty stellar by comparison. now everyone else is gonna have to sharpen skills.
beyonce WAS good, and surprisingly so, even though i have always quite liked her. see, standards are rising already ;-)
Heres a question, and maybe I should post it on another thread, but I'm here now...
If I have my own health insurance, at a good rate, can I use that as a hiring point? Can I say, "Pay me this, and you wont have to provide health insurance for me." Is that a negotiable?
I'm eating cold pizza....only if I had a beer to go with it....still pissing about non paying clients. It is almost as bad as being laid off, for those of you who have been laid off.
SH: Is your insurance obtained through somebody else's (i.e., husband or other family member's) group rate, or is it individual coverage you purchased on your own? If the latter, it's almost certain that your prospective employer's group plan will cost less.
Regardless, I wouldn't bring it up in the interview. You should be hired based on what you can offer the firm in terms of your job description, not the status of your health insurance coverage.
I'd have serious reservations about any employers who factors that into his hiring decision, as it sets a dangerous precedent for discrimination based on a prospective employee's likely healthcare costs. (Of course, I'm in favor of single-payer healthcare and I don't think companies should be in the business of making healthcare decisions for their employees anyway, but that's a topic for another day.)
Strawbeary, I'm going to give you advice I don't often give: you need to consider yourself first. If you have been de facto manager of the office, you should make sure the higher ups at the main office know this. I don't know if you can request an employee review above your boss' head without his knowledge? The other employees may want to rant and vent to your boss about his performance, but if you in any way appear to be spearheading a mutiny (unless you want to take on that role) you could be creating a worse enemy than you need. You might enjoy feeling collegiality with your coworkers, but will THEY be offering you jobs in the future? I think I'm being pretty mercenary in my comments, but I know you've been in a f*ed up situation with that firm for a long time, and it would be sad for it to blow up in your face with no reward because the people you work with designate you as Fletcher Christian. Think of your long-term prospects before you take any action.
peridot, I love the hat, but really the lemongrass dress with green gloves was the absolute star of the day!
Our new health coverage is an individual plan, but since its covering both me and Abram, its actually cheaper than adding us to Husbands plan, or the plan I had with my previous employer. Obviously, things like that wouldnt come up until the negotiation stage of hiring, where you've already been chosen, but not yet hired. I'm just trying to think ahead and be prepaired for when I say "I want this salary" and they counter with a lower one, and I can say, "Sure, I'll take lower, but, I want three weeks vacation, and the money you would be contributing to health care to go into my check instead because I have my own. Make sense?
I can not tell you the joy and pride I feel knowing that our country has democratically elected a capable, articulate, and trustworthy leader to guide us through the next stage of our country's history. I'm still on Cloud 9 from yesterday's historic event.
N_, don't people who voted for the winner always feel like that? I'm not saying this wasnt different, because it definately was, but I always figured that anybody would feel that way if their guy won.
Sarah, that's kind of true, but there are definitely degrees of excitement. I was in college when Clinton won - and was sooo anti-Reagan/Bush 1 -so I remember the feeling. There was definitely happiness and excitement, but nothing compared to the euphoria of yesterday.
SBD - welcome back, too bad you needed to be axed to rejoin TC. Guess I won't be approaching the G for work as I try to move to Cali.
'beary - try to get your title/position quantified before the axe falls. if you are functioning as an associate/senior PA or what ever - get it acknowledged. otherwise it'll be tough when you jump/get pushed. Also make sure the HQ know's where your loyalties lie - seems from your story that they are NOT the principal's biotch. make sure HQ know that so if the boss gets axed, you don't get tossed out with the bathwater as they clear house. Also, would you/could you transfer to HQ for a bit?
I don't necessarily believe that everyone who voted for the winner feels that way.
Example: in some cases, people feel like they voted for the lesser of two evils. It's hard to imagine that these voters feel pride and joy knowing that they cast a vote for someone whom they may barely agree with ideologically.
Good point. I would say that my feelings toward Obama are catiously optimistic. He does have a gift for inspiring people, and I like that he's able to get across to people that THEY are responsible for their problems, and that they need to fix it. I could see how one could get overly paranoid and worry that he instate some sort of required call to service, but as long as its still a choice, I can support that. It seems he may be the first democrat in a long time to say 'help yourself, and government will help you' without people getting all upset and feeling let down. I dont know how he did it, but he seemed to say "over is the age of entitlement, get out there and do something." And everyone cheered. I'm impressed.
Maybe thats not what everyone else heard, but thats whay I heard.
Beary, I took some time to mull over your situation because I wasn't sure what to say at first. After thought, this is my advice.
Call HQ, ask to speak with either HR or the managing principle if there is no HR, and recount the whole story factually. Say, "I don't feel the need to bring any complaint personally, but I feel you should know that many of the employees at this office are talking about pressing a complaint against Boss X. They feel the situation is XYZ, and I felt you should be aware of what is going on. I can state that, again, although I personally feel no need to file a complaint, it is true that XYZ things are going on. In the absence of direct supervision by Boss X, I have stepped into a supervisory role on A, B, and C projects. I thought you should know that these projects are leaving the office without direct oversight on Boss X's part. [editor's aside: this part is VERY important for HQ to understand, as it may raise the flag of liability down the road.] In the meantime, while I do not feel the need for any monetary recompense of my expanded role in the firm, I would like it to be reflected in my title.
(discussion ensues)
Actually, better yet, write this down in a letter to HR person / managing principal at HQ. Then follow up with a phone call right away to say, I wanted to discuss the contents of my letter to you. Shall we set up a phone call once you've had a chance to read it?
good luck. This is quite a serious matter -- more serious than it may seem at first -- and definitely deserves delicate handling.
also, be prepared with specific examples you can cite, both in order to help maintain the atmosphere of factual recounting (rather than complaining or whining) and also to give HR a more firm understanding of precisely what is going on so they can decide how precisely to solve the situation.
Some examples of this might be:
--days he was out of the office when he had previously scheduled to be involved with project review, team meetings, or drawing review, or when it was the same day as a drawing set was due
--any actual written confirmation or examples of the leader-less attitude you've described, as in "don't worry about blah blah blah just send it out"
--written examples of mistakes either in emails, proposals (like the spelling mistake -- that is ABSOLUTELY worth mentioning) or in drawings
--exact drawing sets that have gone out without his review
--exact questions that have been answered by you, and on what exact projects. written emails that show people are coming to you with problems that they would ordinarily be expected to take to the principal.
manta has excellent advise. How did your boss get into the position if he is laizzes faire about everything? Is he buddies with the higher-ups at HQ? Who has the hiring/firing control at your "outpost"? The only reason I ask is b/c if it gets back to your boss and he has that kind of power, this could endanger your employment as well. Just something to think about, but I do believe that HQ needs to know what is going on.
Atechno - that is cool as shit and would do it in a heartbeat. But than again, I have minimal fear of heights and always have had an adventurous spirit.
The first couple's first dance was the highlight of last night's tv coverage...great version of a great song by Beyonce.
As far as yesterday being different from the others I've seen, any of the shots of the mind-blowing audience on the mall told me that it was.
****melt, to answer your question above about racing thoughts: i think i've subsumed them into vivid, bizarre dreams...although that's not much better (but at least I'm sleeping).
look, with President Obama, you know that at the very least ADULTS ARE IN CHARGE and the man actually wants to be President and not try and fake it, just to go on vacation American Vacation Wit Da Bushies.
it's not like 44 has a Texas Ranch or a private island. the man wants to get to work, and so should we.
44 magnum.
I just want to be talked to like an adult. 43 was the biggest non entity ever to occupy the Oval, we'd have been better off if we elected Barney, that damn terrier had more bite than his master.
I cried a few times yesterday and I had to stop reading about Biscuit or else I would have started crying again, I think.
Strawbeary, as much as I agree with manta, you need to be realistic about what you hope to get out of any meeting with HR. Maybe the wave of layoffs has me paranoid but it seems like firms will look for any reason to lay someone off. So I understand what you are saying, but I am serious about improving your other skills...this isn't a bad time to familiarize yourself with the process for finding new work on your own, not as part of the company, etc.
Someone on the radio this morning said they were going to miss Bush... not for his policies, but for all his "Bushisms". I laughed and thought to myself where indeed am I going to now get my comedic relief?
Seriously though I loved that Obama is already getting to work on first first full day.
SH,
I agree with your's and jump's reading.
That is exactly what his message was on Inaguration Day and what it ha sbeen throughout the campaign. More than any person running for or becoming president in a long time (at least democratic) he has a strong message of a return to American values that resonates i think with many.
Strawbeary,
Melt's advice was excellent. A letter (especially if you keep a copy) is always good because it creates a record and seems more formal. And this is a very formal/professional matter.
n_, in case you haven't cried enough today....check out this gallery of images from around the world of people watching the inauguration. It's beautiful and moving - especially #10.
Speaking of which we are going to meet a female doggy that needs to be rescued (not from icy waters - she has no home) on Saturday. I'm struggling with wanting a dog again. We'll see.
Ah thanks Lib - you know I just looked at your Inaug coverage photos and got super misty, at the office, where emotions do not exist! Curse you lib, stop reminding be all about the humanity I reluctantly possess!
Thread Central
weill i think most developed nations have peaceful transitions of power. and when they werent peaceful they were called revolutions.
Hey NAM - where are you at in the sunshine state? Native here, though currently not within the territory.
Can I please redirect all anxiety towards Aretha's hat? Its really the change we should believe in.
HAT/BARACK '12!
yeah, vado, but non-dynastic/monarchical, democratic, and for over 225 yrs straight? not none, but precious few.
Wow, the group thought and jumping to conclusions is worse than ever. Did I say we WEREN'T looking for work? (It is hard to get work when our last 2 proposals, the principal had our own firm's name spelled wrong in the cover letter. I wouldn't recommend this. He insists it's fine because nobody reads them anyways.)
well there have been precious few non dynastic/monarchical states in the history of the world. so it is rare air. plus four of those years we were having a civil war. and the selection of a democratic candidate in 68 was not very peaceful either. plus when you figure in the peacefully elected governments that we helped overthrow, well i'm just sayin'...
ahahahah, that is funny strawbeary.
i have feeling your office mates are raising voices too late.
obama is way cool. kinda sad cuz now our canadian pm misconduct will look like what it is. with W in charge mediocre leadership looked pretty stellar by comparison. now everyone else is gonna have to sharpen skills.
beyonce WAS good, and surprisingly so, even though i have always quite liked her. see, standards are rising already ;-)
Peri,
I am in Gaineville. Home of the BCS champions!!!
first thing obama should do is dismantle that debacle known as the bcs.
I'm bored today.
Heres a question, and maybe I should post it on another thread, but I'm here now...
If I have my own health insurance, at a good rate, can I use that as a hiring point? Can I say, "Pay me this, and you wont have to provide health insurance for me." Is that a negotiable?
I'm eating cold pizza....only if I had a beer to go with it....still pissing about non paying clients. It is almost as bad as being laid off, for those of you who have been laid off.
SH: Is your insurance obtained through somebody else's (i.e., husband or other family member's) group rate, or is it individual coverage you purchased on your own? If the latter, it's almost certain that your prospective employer's group plan will cost less.
Regardless, I wouldn't bring it up in the interview. You should be hired based on what you can offer the firm in terms of your job description, not the status of your health insurance coverage.
I'd have serious reservations about any employers who factors that into his hiring decision, as it sets a dangerous precedent for discrimination based on a prospective employee's likely healthcare costs. (Of course, I'm in favor of single-payer healthcare and I don't think companies should be in the business of making healthcare decisions for their employees anyway, but that's a topic for another day.)
Nam it's freezing here as well - still about 80% humidity but the temperature is in the mid 60s
Strawbeary, I'm going to give you advice I don't often give: you need to consider yourself first. If you have been de facto manager of the office, you should make sure the higher ups at the main office know this. I don't know if you can request an employee review above your boss' head without his knowledge? The other employees may want to rant and vent to your boss about his performance, but if you in any way appear to be spearheading a mutiny (unless you want to take on that role) you could be creating a worse enemy than you need. You might enjoy feeling collegiality with your coworkers, but will THEY be offering you jobs in the future? I think I'm being pretty mercenary in my comments, but I know you've been in a f*ed up situation with that firm for a long time, and it would be sad for it to blow up in your face with no reward because the people you work with designate you as Fletcher Christian. Think of your long-term prospects before you take any action.
peridot, I love the hat, but really the lemongrass dress with green gloves was the absolute star of the day!
I'm hoping Aretha's hat runs for president in 2016. It's got my vote.
Our new health coverage is an individual plan, but since its covering both me and Abram, its actually cheaper than adding us to Husbands plan, or the plan I had with my previous employer. Obviously, things like that wouldnt come up until the negotiation stage of hiring, where you've already been chosen, but not yet hired. I'm just trying to think ahead and be prepaired for when I say "I want this salary" and they counter with a lower one, and I can say, "Sure, I'll take lower, but, I want three weeks vacation, and the money you would be contributing to health care to go into my check instead because I have my own. Make sense?
I still have reservations about the idea, but maybe others here will feel differently. I'm open to being persuaded.
Cry/teary-eyed count from yesterday = 8 times
I can not tell you the joy and pride I feel knowing that our country has democratically elected a capable, articulate, and trustworthy leader to guide us through the next stage of our country's history. I'm still on Cloud 9 from yesterday's historic event.
N_, don't people who voted for the winner always feel like that? I'm not saying this wasnt different, because it definately was, but I always figured that anybody would feel that way if their guy won.
ok I just realised that Aretha's hat was actually a big bow and not this
Sarah, that's kind of true, but there are definitely degrees of excitement. I was in college when Clinton won - and was sooo anti-Reagan/Bush 1 -so I remember the feeling. There was definitely happiness and excitement, but nothing compared to the euphoria of yesterday.
Techno, wear did you find that?
SBD - welcome back, too bad you needed to be axed to rejoin TC. Guess I won't be approaching the G for work as I try to move to Cali.
'beary - try to get your title/position quantified before the axe falls. if you are functioning as an associate/senior PA or what ever - get it acknowledged. otherwise it'll be tough when you jump/get pushed. Also make sure the HQ know's where your loyalties lie - seems from your story that they are NOT the principal's biotch. make sure HQ know that so if the boss gets axed, you don't get tossed out with the bathwater as they clear house. Also, would you/could you transfer to HQ for a bit?
I don't necessarily believe that everyone who voted for the winner feels that way.
Example: in some cases, people feel like they voted for the lesser of two evils. It's hard to imagine that these voters feel pride and joy knowing that they cast a vote for someone whom they may barely agree with ideologically.
Good point. I would say that my feelings toward Obama are catiously optimistic. He does have a gift for inspiring people, and I like that he's able to get across to people that THEY are responsible for their problems, and that they need to fix it. I could see how one could get overly paranoid and worry that he instate some sort of required call to service, but as long as its still a choice, I can support that. It seems he may be the first democrat in a long time to say 'help yourself, and government will help you' without people getting all upset and feeling let down. I dont know how he did it, but he seemed to say "over is the age of entitlement, get out there and do something." And everyone cheered. I'm impressed.
Maybe thats not what everyone else heard, but thats whay I heard.
theres a dog stuc k on the ice in the white river!
is by far the most stupid yet most inspiring thing I have ever seen. Now I know what I want to see in the next James Bond film
Sarah caught that on another blog
the dog's name is bisquit. and the fireman got him into the boat!
hurray!
sarah, i got the impression he was saying just that.
Beary, I took some time to mull over your situation because I wasn't sure what to say at first. After thought, this is my advice.
Call HQ, ask to speak with either HR or the managing principle if there is no HR, and recount the whole story factually. Say, "I don't feel the need to bring any complaint personally, but I feel you should know that many of the employees at this office are talking about pressing a complaint against Boss X. They feel the situation is XYZ, and I felt you should be aware of what is going on. I can state that, again, although I personally feel no need to file a complaint, it is true that XYZ things are going on. In the absence of direct supervision by Boss X, I have stepped into a supervisory role on A, B, and C projects. I thought you should know that these projects are leaving the office without direct oversight on Boss X's part. [editor's aside: this part is VERY important for HQ to understand, as it may raise the flag of liability down the road.] In the meantime, while I do not feel the need for any monetary recompense of my expanded role in the firm, I would like it to be reflected in my title.
(discussion ensues)
Actually, better yet, write this down in a letter to HR person / managing principal at HQ. Then follow up with a phone call right away to say, I wanted to discuss the contents of my letter to you. Shall we set up a phone call once you've had a chance to read it?
good luck. This is quite a serious matter -- more serious than it may seem at first -- and definitely deserves delicate handling.
also, be prepared with specific examples you can cite, both in order to help maintain the atmosphere of factual recounting (rather than complaining or whining) and also to give HR a more firm understanding of precisely what is going on so they can decide how precisely to solve the situation.
Some examples of this might be:
--days he was out of the office when he had previously scheduled to be involved with project review, team meetings, or drawing review, or when it was the same day as a drawing set was due
--any actual written confirmation or examples of the leader-less attitude you've described, as in "don't worry about blah blah blah just send it out"
--written examples of mistakes either in emails, proposals (like the spelling mistake -- that is ABSOLUTELY worth mentioning) or in drawings
--exact drawing sets that have gone out without his review
--exact questions that have been answered by you, and on what exact projects. written emails that show people are coming to you with problems that they would ordinarily be expected to take to the principal.
manta has excellent advise. How did your boss get into the position if he is laizzes faire about everything? Is he buddies with the higher-ups at HQ? Who has the hiring/firing control at your "outpost"? The only reason I ask is b/c if it gets back to your boss and he has that kind of power, this could endanger your employment as well. Just something to think about, but I do believe that HQ needs to know what is going on.
Atechno - that is cool as shit and would do it in a heartbeat. But than again, I have minimal fear of heights and always have had an adventurous spirit.
funny when archinecteurs get called out in the <strike>real</strike> blog world
i gotta give it up to firefighters. they saved Biscuit!
The first couple's first dance was the highlight of last night's tv coverage...great version of a great song by Beyonce.
As far as yesterday being different from the others I've seen, any of the shots of the mind-blowing audience on the mall told me that it was.
****melt, to answer your question above about racing thoughts: i think i've subsumed them into vivid, bizarre dreams...although that's not much better (but at least I'm sleeping).
look, with President Obama, you know that at the very least ADULTS ARE IN CHARGE and the man actually wants to be President and not try and fake it, just to go on vacation American Vacation Wit Da Bushies.
it's not like 44 has a Texas Ranch or a private island. the man wants to get to work, and so should we.
44 magnum.
I just want to be talked to like an adult. 43 was the biggest non entity ever to occupy the Oval, we'd have been better off if we elected Barney, that damn terrier had more bite than his master.
I cried a few times yesterday and I had to stop reading about Biscuit or else I would have started crying again, I think.
Strawbeary, as much as I agree with manta, you need to be realistic about what you hope to get out of any meeting with HR. Maybe the wave of layoffs has me paranoid but it seems like firms will look for any reason to lay someone off. So I understand what you are saying, but I am serious about improving your other skills...this isn't a bad time to familiarize yourself with the process for finding new work on your own, not as part of the company, etc.
Someone on the radio this morning said they were going to miss Bush... not for his policies, but for all his "Bushisms". I laughed and thought to myself where indeed am I going to now get my comedic relief?
Seriously though I loved that Obama is already getting to work on first first full day.
Jonathan Yeo
SH,
I agree with your's and jump's reading.
That is exactly what his message was on Inaguration Day and what it ha sbeen throughout the campaign. More than any person running for or becoming president in a long time (at least democratic) he has a strong message of a return to American values that resonates i think with many.
Strawbeary,
Melt's advice was excellent. A letter (especially if you keep a copy) is always good because it creates a record and seems more formal. And this is a very formal/professional matter.
[url=http://www2.indystar.com/autofocus/photos/standard/2009/01/215537.jpg width=418[/img]
Biscuit!
I like to think of Obama as the "stop the madness!" candidate.
I agree, manta, except he's so calm, confident, and commanding that I don't think he needs the exclamation point.
Stop the madness.
And you know he means it.
I'm off to look at wallpaper.
I want a dog named Biscuit already!
n_, in case you haven't cried enough today....check out this gallery of images from around the world of people watching the inauguration. It's beautiful and moving - especially #10.
Periodotbritches: There not Biscuit Matisse and Frito Jack we rent them out to people to supplement our Architectual Income if your interested.
you're right liberty...i can't help it, i'm such a wuss.
lordy snook I spent 5 minutes re and re-reading that and I still have no idea what it means : )
and Matisse are snook's dogs, if that helps!
Speaking of which we are going to meet a female doggy that needs to be rescued (not from icy waters - she has no home) on Saturday. I'm struggling with wanting a dog again. We'll see.
Ah thanks Lib - you know I just looked at your Inaug coverage photos and got super misty, at the office, where emotions do not exist! Curse you lib, stop reminding be all about the humanity I reluctantly possess!
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