My WonderMac made it to the AppleCare repair center today, woo hoo. As soon as I get it back I'll send my resume along to tk and anyone else who will consider hiring me, LOL.
Today I sat in on a review for the "container studio" at USC that was hosted by AFH and ... Cameron Sinclair! Cameron was nice enough to invite me not only to the review but he also extended a possible opportunity for a helicopter ride over Santa Monica with some of his "people", which I politely declined (I got motion sick just thinking about it) and which got canceled due to rain anyway. The review was well-attended and even had a couple of celebrities....no, not Brad Pitt, although apparently Cameron mentioned his name at some point, much to the titillation of the undergraduate students in the studio. I will be blogging this whole thing tomorrow as promised to Cameron and the students, as soon as I get home where I have a) time, and b) my mother's second computer to work with.
Also I hate to keep talking about the weather but DAMN it's cold in LA! Which means I'm going to freeze my toukas off in Cincinnati! (Is that how you spell toukas? Who knows...)
sending over some warm Caribbean sunshine to you Wonder K, granted I think its weird that you need it over in LA. Also Sunshine for everyone who really needs it. Week after next i'll be tanning the bottom of my feet with a mojito in hand waiting for the sun to set.
Also sounds like you had a fun crit with Cameron. A comment about helicopters tho, you really don't get motion sickness - what you get is completely different somewhat similar to vertigo mixed with a fear of heights
hm, caribean warmth would be great here too. its just wet and rainy and chilly here in winter, but that is worse than dry deep freeze of prairie canada...
i have been chasing down money lately as well. recently was paid part of fees owed on project that took months of haranguing, and seems the rest is finally coming, but is kind of scary to have to consider possibility of non-payment when times are already hard enough. we also just had news of project being put on hold (cancelled, i would say is more accurate) which is very shitty. we were paid for the work so far, which is great but you know a portfolio of almost built work is not particularly impressive. sheesh ;-)
and now it turns out there was some funny product placement with real estate stocks here in japan, not unlike what was going on in the good ol USA, so banks are becoming ever more tight. The possibility of financing anything seems more elusive than ever. man oh man. things are stating to be surreal. and i thought the 90's were crappy !
yeah i know orhan. it is awful to actually like your job isn't it? makes walking away very nearly impossible ;-)
if coffee break were enough would be cool. i was actually thinking doing something like archi is doing would be great. can't afford it, but sure would be nice.
what i really need to be doing is the opposite of taking a break, i suppose. the trick is to not just spin wheels with work that doesn't generate income or built projects. with ground under foot liquifying in financial shakeup, it sure is a challenge. interesting times can be such a drag...i am kind of interested in learning how it is all going to come out really ;-)
if you can call the stuff that doesn't generate income "work," you are usually really onto something. income often follows. i'd like to believe.;.)
that doesn't mean we don't have to eat though... so it goes. we are so lucky even with economic downturns and such and not being in the epicenter of famine or war type of disasters.
yeah, you know i actually believe all of that, orhan, especially the last bit. my kids are so lucky to have grown up with so much happiness and a complete lack of craziness around them that really i find it a bit embarrassing to complain...
jump, Orhan: I'm right there with you two wise men on how things suck, but could be a lot tougher. Thank god my child is safe and we have alternatives, drastic as they may be I sincerely doubt they will involve anything that could actually be called "suffering". Just suckiness!!
the irony for me in all this is that we feel really busy, but still cashflow is bad and we are having to push work out faster rather than stretching it out.
so the work is possibly less checked, less resolved, we'll work it out later....and pushing it out means we have to return to the pool of not-much-work in which other firms are sinking.
seems it would be better to pace ourselves and make the work last and be of higher quality instead of everybody working extra hours, but the slow payments mean that we have to keep generating invoicing.
Styrofoam kills the taste of coffee. Given the option between coffee in styrofoam and none, I'll take the raging headache of caffeine withdrawal until I can get to a place that doesn't have styrofoam cups.
Dunkin Donuts coffee is actually quite good, toherwise.
And this brings up a pet peeve of mine: why is anyone using styrofoam AT ALL anymore? We all now how crap it is for the environment, why hasn't it been completely banned by now?
1.2.6 Rock
Solid homogeneous interlocking crystalline material with firmly cemented, laminated, or foliated masses or conglomerate deposits, neither of which can be removed without systematic drilling and blasting, drilling and the use of expansion jacks or feather wedges, or the use of backhoe-mounted pneumatic hole punchers or rock breakers; also large boulders, buried masonry, or concrete other than pavement exceeding 0.375 cubic meter in volume. Removal of hard material will not be considered rock excavation because of intermittent drilling and blasting that is performed merely to increase production.
thank you army corp of engineers for the definition!
beta I know such a place, nice spec treekiller I could of used that definition a few times in the past, jump I'm not sure what I'm doing but I'll likely keep doing it until its time to open a bar serving mojitos on the side of the road
Well, we just got our letters informing us the amount of our holiday bonus this year. Mine was less than I was hoping for, but more than I was expecting. Given the economy and the fact that my firm has already instituted a salary freeze for 2009, I'm actually surprised I got any bonus at all. It's not exactly a windfall, but at least I'll be able to buy the new glasses and take care of a couple other household expenses a bit sooner than I'd be able to otherwise.
LIG You interested in buying my old Jeep Cherokee Sport 1996...I think you could do it with your Chrismas Bonus.....oh ya it has good rubber all around.
LIG....second thoughts after reading the thread about Yale putting the brakes on for their projects. Maybe I will keep the Jeep and move into it and become a mobile architect....have work will travel.
Least I know I can drive it deep into the back woods where the Feds
can't find me and live out this financial crisis until things get better.
Nice to have some positive news amongst the layoffs.
I want to surprise husband with a new dishwasher for Christmas. The one we have now has never been good and has started sounding like a bellowing cow when it runs. But he really wants a Bosch and damn, their entry model is twice what I was hoping to pay!
Maybe the scratch and dent place will have one that's not too badly scratched or dented.
cool cameron sighting on your school blog, WK. yesterday i came across igoogle theme made by AFH, so switched. amazing that branding/PR can shift even to google search...
Awww, DubK You just totally made my day. :oD How 'bout early next week for the par-tay? Any other archinecters are welcome to join. I'll have plenty of hot chocolate/coffee and Bailey's for everyone. Or you can pick your poison, I'm an excellent hostess.
Hi, TC...did you miss me? Did you even notice I was gone? I had to drive 40 miles on icy roads yesterday -scariest drive ever - to help my mom place all of her furniture in her new house. I averaged 27mph the whole trip, and it took an hour and a half! We talked about the furniture, and how to arrange what where, but the movers couldn't make it down their dirt road, and so it was a wasted day.
Today, I'm going to attempt to make ribbon candy and fudge. WIsh me luck. The recipe says to have two people, but I am only one, so we will see.
Is it bad that I still dont have my Christmas cards out yet?
Morning all - I was wondering if someone experienced in such matters would be able to have a look over my graduate school portfolio. I don't really want to post in online for all to peruse until applications are done and over with, but let me know here or shoot me an email and I will send you the link.
Also - namhenderson et al, Max's entry is interesting even without the Front Office shoutout. They seem to have had an interesting studio going.
Nam, it happens at least once a year. Whats crazy is that Sunday was gorgeous - 75 degrees with a nice breese, and then WHAM!! Monday morning its sleeting and only got up to 28.
Okay, I'm trying to do a space plan for a basic 1900sf fitness center (as part of a larger project) so that we can demonstrate egress, etc. for a permit set. To do so, I need to know typical sizes and clearances for various equipment like treadmills, elliptical machines, weights, etc.
Graphic Standards devotes no less than a dozen pages to swimming pool design (including an entire page for water polo and an artificial water ski lake) but I can't find jack shit about how to lay out a simple fitness center. None of Time-Saver Standards' 1277 pages seem to contain anything useful, either.
Given that almost every school, modern apartment building, and corporate office complex is likely to have at least some sort of fitness facility, you'd think some basic planning information would be easy to come by.
How many architects design fucking water polo facilities in their careers??
LiG, how about one of those machine manufacturers? i bet one of them has pdfs of specs to download [or they should]. don't know if that helps.
hello tc, last day here before heading south. almost broke my back returning books to one library. now must take bus to other library for 2nd load. then, crazy afternoon of xmas shopping, and flight tomorrrow morning!
oh, i just found my notes from my presentation of the paper i'm turning in today. they would have been really useful when i was writing it for the past days. oh well.
The new graphic standards drives me up the wall. It is so clunkily executed and has way too much info devoted to all the wrong things. Your predicament, LiG, isn't the first I've heard of.
GS is a joke. LiG, call Cybex and get one of their sales team to do a few layouts based on the sq ft, then go to the owner and present the options. chances are though, like anything that has eqpt that is "mobile" the space needs/req's will change over time, as the needs and budget for eqpt changes.
I got an interview, and I don't actually have a portfolio. I know, I know, but I never did one right out of school, cause I had a job, and then life got in the way. So, if the Interview is Monday, I obviously don't have time to put together a good portfolio. I do have a nice brochure sort of thing from the old firm. I think I will take that.
One, would that be ok?
Two, how much is College work important if you have two years experience in the real world?
Am I going to bomb the interview because of this? GAA I'm such a loser!
Sarah- there are two types of professional portfolios, the flash or the nuts/bolts. So if you have more technical proficiency (and that's what the interview is for), just grab a roll or two of CDs that you worked on. If the job is rendering/marketing/design, then you need project sheets with examples of your creativity - sketches, renderings, photos of built work in a nice page layout. Bring the brochures if that's all you got - but make sure to represent your roll in assembling the brochure and each project featured. GOOD LUCK!!!!
(now's the time to start a portfolio to be prepared for the next interview.)
Sarah, calm down firstly. If its Monday you still have time to produce a portfolio - but you will have to be very selective of your projects. I did one just out of school that had 5 projects, 3 of which were grouped around residential work since that was the bread & butter of the firm.
Also I've finished my Christmas shopping early, and I also got another rejection letter in the mail. 15 mailed, 2 rejections and a whole bunch of non-replies. We'll see what happens in the new year.
Tuna, I really wish I was coming to your party - if only for the cheesy camera ops with you and Wonder K.
Gin try Neuferts, although its in metric, they had updates on typical gym equipment (some mentioned by name like the Nautilus 3600)
The fitness center is one room in an existing building that we're gut-renovating. As such, doorway and stair widths are pretty much already set in stone as far as emergency egress goes.
Problem is, the old pre-2008 NYC building code (which we're designing to for a number of reasons) has no specific occupancy designation for fitness centers. The closest match is "Gymnasium", which is considered a public assembly space with an occupancy of 25 sf per person, and all sorts of stringent egress requirements. This applies to something like a high school gym where you might have 500 people on bleachers watching a basketball game, but is not realistic for a 1880-sf space where you might have three people using treadmills. Our existing stairs and doors can easily accommodate a realistic occupant load for the fitness center, but not the 75-person load that the code technically calls for. So, we have to create all sorts of drawings and charts in order to document why this fitness center will never have anywhere near 75 people using it under any circumstances.
Clear as mud, right? You'd think that nobody had ever built a fitness center in NYC until now. Hopefully this is the last time I'll have to deal with this, as all future projects will be on the new code.
just call the room something else. if you are using treadmills etc. it's all movable equipment. you don't have any specific code requirements. just call it whatever requires the lowest occupant per square foot. you could technically call it storage. hell they ain't gonna know.
Thread Central
Heya gang....
My WonderMac made it to the AppleCare repair center today, woo hoo. As soon as I get it back I'll send my resume along to tk and anyone else who will consider hiring me, LOL.
Today I sat in on a review for the "container studio" at USC that was hosted by AFH and ... Cameron Sinclair! Cameron was nice enough to invite me not only to the review but he also extended a possible opportunity for a helicopter ride over Santa Monica with some of his "people", which I politely declined (I got motion sick just thinking about it) and which got canceled due to rain anyway. The review was well-attended and even had a couple of celebrities....no, not Brad Pitt, although apparently Cameron mentioned his name at some point, much to the titillation of the undergraduate students in the studio. I will be blogging this whole thing tomorrow as promised to Cameron and the students, as soon as I get home where I have a) time, and b) my mother's second computer to work with.
Also I hate to keep talking about the weather but DAMN it's cold in LA! Which means I'm going to freeze my toukas off in Cincinnati! (Is that how you spell toukas? Who knows...)
sending over some warm Caribbean sunshine to you Wonder K, granted I think its weird that you need it over in LA. Also Sunshine for everyone who really needs it. Week after next i'll be tanning the bottom of my feet with a mojito in hand waiting for the sun to set.
Also sounds like you had a fun crit with Cameron. A comment about helicopters tho, you really don't get motion sickness - what you get is completely different somewhat similar to vertigo mixed with a fear of heights
hm, caribean warmth would be great here too. its just wet and rainy and chilly here in winter, but that is worse than dry deep freeze of prairie canada...
i have been chasing down money lately as well. recently was paid part of fees owed on project that took months of haranguing, and seems the rest is finally coming, but is kind of scary to have to consider possibility of non-payment when times are already hard enough. we also just had news of project being put on hold (cancelled, i would say is more accurate) which is very shitty. we were paid for the work so far, which is great but you know a portfolio of almost built work is not particularly impressive. sheesh ;-)
and now it turns out there was some funny product placement with real estate stocks here in japan, not unlike what was going on in the good ol USA, so banks are becoming ever more tight. The possibility of financing anything seems more elusive than ever. man oh man. things are stating to be surreal. and i thought the 90's were crappy !
time to take a break i wonder?
jump, unfortunetly people like us are too deep into this shit (architecture) to pull anything else.
are you talking about a coffee break?.;.)
yeah i know orhan. it is awful to actually like your job isn't it? makes walking away very nearly impossible ;-)
if coffee break were enough would be cool. i was actually thinking doing something like archi is doing would be great. can't afford it, but sure would be nice.
what i really need to be doing is the opposite of taking a break, i suppose. the trick is to not just spin wheels with work that doesn't generate income or built projects. with ground under foot liquifying in financial shakeup, it sure is a challenge. interesting times can be such a drag...i am kind of interested in learning how it is all going to come out really ;-)
if you can call the stuff that doesn't generate income "work," you are usually really onto something. income often follows. i'd like to believe.;.)
that doesn't mean we don't have to eat though... so it goes. we are so lucky even with economic downturns and such and not being in the epicenter of famine or war type of disasters.
yeah, you know i actually believe all of that, orhan, especially the last bit. my kids are so lucky to have grown up with so much happiness and a complete lack of craziness around them that really i find it a bit embarrassing to complain...
jump, Orhan: I'm right there with you two wise men on how things suck, but could be a lot tougher. Thank god my child is safe and we have alternatives, drastic as they may be I sincerely doubt they will involve anything that could actually be called "suffering". Just suckiness!!
the irony for me in all this is that we feel really busy, but still cashflow is bad and we are having to push work out faster rather than stretching it out.
so the work is possibly less checked, less resolved, we'll work it out later....and pushing it out means we have to return to the pool of not-much-work in which other firms are sinking.
seems it would be better to pace ourselves and make the work last and be of higher quality instead of everybody working extra hours, but the slow payments mean that we have to keep generating invoicing.
nasty.
Ditto Orhan, jump and LB's sentiments. I remind myself this everyday and am thankful/grateful for the simples pleasures in life.
steven, we're in the same exact boat. it's not fun.
but better than being laid off, of course.
No heat or hot water in my apartment this morning, for about the second time in as many months. I hope this isn't the beginning of a pattern.
Am I the only one who thinks Dunkin' Donuts coffee would probably taste better if it didn't come in a styrofoam cup?
Styrofoam kills the taste of coffee. Given the option between coffee in styrofoam and none, I'll take the raging headache of caffeine withdrawal until I can get to a place that doesn't have styrofoam cups.
Dunkin Donuts coffee is actually quite good, toherwise.
And this brings up a pet peeve of mine: why is anyone using styrofoam AT ALL anymore? We all now how crap it is for the environment, why hasn't it been completely banned by now?
Woo, too much espresso at my last meeting...
i am thinking a deserted island would be fab right about now. just the wife books and an ipod with solar charger, oh, and a volleyball.
representative of my day:
1.2.6 RockSolid homogeneous interlocking crystalline material with firmly cemented, laminated, or foliated masses or conglomerate deposits, neither of which can be removed without systematic drilling and blasting, drilling and the use of expansion jacks or feather wedges, or the use of backhoe-mounted pneumatic hole punchers or rock breakers; also large boulders, buried masonry, or concrete other than pavement exceeding 0.375 cubic meter in volume. Removal of hard material will not be considered rock excavation because of intermittent drilling and blasting that is performed merely to increase production.
thank you army corp of engineers for the definition!
beta I know such a place, nice spec treekiller I could of used that definition a few times in the past, jump I'm not sure what I'm doing but I'll likely keep doing it until its time to open a bar serving mojitos on the side of the road
Well, we just got our letters informing us the amount of our holiday bonus this year. Mine was less than I was hoping for, but more than I was expecting. Given the economy and the fact that my firm has already instituted a salary freeze for 2009, I'm actually surprised I got any bonus at all. It's not exactly a windfall, but at least I'll be able to buy the new glasses and take care of a couple other household expenses a bit sooner than I'd be able to otherwise.
Wow TC has been quiet today. Hope everybody is having a good Tuesday.
that's great news, LIG.
sounds good archi. i suspect you will do pretty good for yourself wither way ;-)
LIG You interested in buying my old Jeep Cherokee Sport 1996...I think you could do it with your Chrismas Bonus.....oh ya it has good rubber all around.
LIG....second thoughts after reading the thread about Yale putting the brakes on for their projects. Maybe I will keep the Jeep and move into it and become a mobile architect....have work will travel.
Least I know I can drive it deep into the back woods where the Feds
can't find me and live out this financial crisis until things get better.
did anyone ever see the cool school?
Yay, LiG, that's great news!
Nice to have some positive news amongst the layoffs.
I want to surprise husband with a new dishwasher for Christmas. The one we have now has never been good and has started sounding like a bellowing cow when it runs. But he really wants a Bosch and damn, their entry model is twice what I was hoping to pay!
Maybe the scratch and dent place will have one that's not too badly scratched or dented.
liberty....try a commercial Horbart under counter model....scratch and dent...you might get a better price.
Don't tempt me with the Jeep... I'd probably have bought one already (or not sold my last one) if I had somewhere to park it.
I'm on my Mom's PC! Vista sucks!
I took this picture the other night in West LA for obvious reasons.
Speaking of, hey ****, when are we having a slumber party at Melt Mansion?
Bugger, I don't know why that didn't work. Clearly it's Vista's fault. Let's try this again.
cool cameron sighting on your school blog, WK. yesterday i came across igoogle theme made by AFH, so switched. amazing that branding/PR can shift even to google search...
Awww, DubK You just totally made my day. :oD How 'bout early next week for the par-tay? Any other archinecters are welcome to join. I'll have plenty of hot chocolate/coffee and Bailey's for everyone. Or you can pick your poison, I'm an excellent hostess.
Morning all,
Jump your office got a shout out on the School Blogs by one of the school bloggers (Max of TIT) who is interning with you all.
Also,
I should have clocked in before going to HR this morning about a question, not after since now i am "late" and annoyed..
Hi, TC...did you miss me? Did you even notice I was gone? I had to drive 40 miles on icy roads yesterday -scariest drive ever - to help my mom place all of her furniture in her new house. I averaged 27mph the whole trip, and it took an hour and a half! We talked about the furniture, and how to arrange what where, but the movers couldn't make it down their dirt road, and so it was a wasted day.
Today, I'm going to attempt to make ribbon candy and fudge. WIsh me luck. The recipe says to have two people, but I am only one, so we will see.
Is it bad that I still dont have my Christmas cards out yet?
Morning all - I was wondering if someone experienced in such matters would be able to have a look over my graduate school portfolio. I don't really want to post in online for all to peruse until applications are done and over with, but let me know here or shoot me an email and I will send you the link.
Also - namhenderson et al, Max's entry is interesting even without the Front Office shoutout. They seem to have had an interesting studio going.
Kung,
Absoultely correct. The post was quite interesting. Particularly enjoyed the pic of Denari looking the "dashing architect"..
Hi SH,
What's up with icy roads in Texas? I wouldn't think that happened often..
Nam, it happens at least once a year. Whats crazy is that Sunday was gorgeous - 75 degrees with a nice breese, and then WHAM!! Monday morning its sleeting and only got up to 28.
Okay, I'm trying to do a space plan for a basic 1900sf fitness center (as part of a larger project) so that we can demonstrate egress, etc. for a permit set. To do so, I need to know typical sizes and clearances for various equipment like treadmills, elliptical machines, weights, etc.
Graphic Standards devotes no less than a dozen pages to swimming pool design (including an entire page for water polo and an artificial water ski lake) but I can't find jack shit about how to lay out a simple fitness center. None of Time-Saver Standards' 1277 pages seem to contain anything useful, either.
Given that almost every school, modern apartment building, and corporate office complex is likely to have at least some sort of fitness facility, you'd think some basic planning information would be easy to come by.
How many architects design fucking water polo facilities in their careers??
Can anybody point me to something useful?
LiG, how about one of those machine manufacturers? i bet one of them has pdfs of specs to download [or they should]. don't know if that helps.
hello tc, last day here before heading south. almost broke my back returning books to one library. now must take bus to other library for 2nd load. then, crazy afternoon of xmas shopping, and flight tomorrrow morning!
oh, i just found my notes from my presentation of the paper i'm turning in today. they would have been really useful when i was writing it for the past days. oh well.
LIG,
Sounds like you need to do some field research....
And have fun AML...
LiG- there are consultants that lay out the equipment for you. if there's no budget for a pro, ask a sales person.
The new graphic standards drives me up the wall. It is so clunkily executed and has way too much info devoted to all the wrong things. Your predicament, LiG, isn't the first I've heard of.
GS is a joke. LiG, call Cybex and get one of their sales team to do a few layouts based on the sq ft, then go to the owner and present the options. chances are though, like anything that has eqpt that is "mobile" the space needs/req's will change over time, as the needs and budget for eqpt changes.
Ok, I may simply be panicking, but....
I got an interview, and I don't actually have a portfolio. I know, I know, but I never did one right out of school, cause I had a job, and then life got in the way. So, if the Interview is Monday, I obviously don't have time to put together a good portfolio. I do have a nice brochure sort of thing from the old firm. I think I will take that.
One, would that be ok?
Two, how much is College work important if you have two years experience in the real world?
Am I going to bomb the interview because of this? GAA I'm such a loser!
SH,
That is awesome you already ahve an interview!!!
As for portfolio can you throw something together quick?
Even if it just showcases 1 or 2 pieces of recent work?
You can always fall back on the brochure thingy.
Sarah- there are two types of professional portfolios, the flash or the nuts/bolts. So if you have more technical proficiency (and that's what the interview is for), just grab a roll or two of CDs that you worked on. If the job is rendering/marketing/design, then you need project sheets with examples of your creativity - sketches, renderings, photos of built work in a nice page layout. Bring the brochures if that's all you got - but make sure to represent your roll in assembling the brochure and each project featured. GOOD LUCK!!!!
(now's the time to start a portfolio to be prepared for the next interview.)
Sarah, calm down firstly. If its Monday you still have time to produce a portfolio - but you will have to be very selective of your projects. I did one just out of school that had 5 projects, 3 of which were grouped around residential work since that was the bread & butter of the firm.
Also I've finished my Christmas shopping early, and I also got another rejection letter in the mail. 15 mailed, 2 rejections and a whole bunch of non-replies. We'll see what happens in the new year.
Tuna, I really wish I was coming to your party - if only for the cheesy camera ops with you and Wonder K.
Gin try Neuferts, although its in metric, they had updates on typical gym equipment (some mentioned by name like the Nautilus 3600)
The fitness center is one room in an existing building that we're gut-renovating. As such, doorway and stair widths are pretty much already set in stone as far as emergency egress goes.
Problem is, the old pre-2008 NYC building code (which we're designing to for a number of reasons) has no specific occupancy designation for fitness centers. The closest match is "Gymnasium", which is considered a public assembly space with an occupancy of 25 sf per person, and all sorts of stringent egress requirements. This applies to something like a high school gym where you might have 500 people on bleachers watching a basketball game, but is not realistic for a 1880-sf space where you might have three people using treadmills. Our existing stairs and doors can easily accommodate a realistic occupant load for the fitness center, but not the 75-person load that the code technically calls for. So, we have to create all sorts of drawings and charts in order to document why this fitness center will never have anywhere near 75 people using it under any circumstances.
Clear as mud, right? You'd think that nobody had ever built a fitness center in NYC until now. Hopefully this is the last time I'll have to deal with this, as all future projects will be on the new code.
just call the room something else. if you are using treadmills etc. it's all movable equipment. you don't have any specific code requirements. just call it whatever requires the lowest occupant per square foot. you could technically call it storage. hell they ain't gonna know.
or, and this is a crazy idea, you could call the city and ask em.
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