puddles - interesting article. A friend's husbnad is graduating from law school this year and will be suffering through what the article discusses. He's one of the fortunate ones, actually has a job (they created a new position for him in product law) but he won't start until November I think (he graduates in May) and the salary won't be anywhere near what it used to be. This is a guy that is fluent in Arabic and also has masters from Harvard in International Relations or something like that, yet he's still going to be struggling to pay off his debts just like the rest of us.
Why code? Our company lost a great employee a while back and we have a huge gaping hole where he used to be. He basically created applications that augmented our current softwares or created interoperability between different softwares. When he was around, for some applications I played a kind of software architect role - basically seeing a need for something, initiating the creation of the application, a rough structure of how it should work (what kind of info was needed/exchanged/input, etc), and an idea about the user interface. I was always interested but didn't do the actual programming.
Now I see a need to learn this and there has been a bit of a push by others to fill this need. I have been officially given some time to learn this. Which is nice. I decided the other day when/if I own my own company, I'm going to give my employees a couple solid weeks to research whatever they want on company time as kind of a bonus. Its great for morale.
Now as far as me being at all being competant to learn this any time soon is a whole different matter. Studying for the GREs and having the pressure of taking (not necessarily passing although obviously ideal) all the AREs before my next birthday is weighing on me.
I read that article about lawyers and while the better part of me understands that every person's situation is different, and this must be tough for those guys going through it, who expected something different when they got out of school... but really if I'm honest with myself I just feel like saying "oh quit your whining. You can't buy a house in San Francisco at age 23 anymore (cited in the article)? Aw pumpkin. Suck it up and enjoy the real world like the rest of us." Except they STILL aren't going to struggle anywhere near how 99% of the world struggles. It drives me bonkers that anyone can complain about this. It's like realtors complaining how much their income has dropped. I'm sorry, but you made boatloads of money for years for doing very little work and encouraging the overspeculated market while you were at it. Talk to me when you haven't had a paycheck for a year like a lot of us, and nothing in sight. Argh.
"oh no! you don't have regularly scheduled, guaranteed promotions anymore, but instead you're being rated on your productivity and worth to the firm? aw that sucks! oh no, you've almost made partner and suddenly you're worried that they might even lay you off? boy it must suck to feel like you don't have job security!"
i felt similarly about an npr piece on the radio tuesday, manta. i've always been a supporter of the arts but, when i heard that cleveland's orchestra was striking rather than take a voluntary pay cut from their SIX FIGURE salaries, i got pretty cranky. the administration, director on down, had already taken these pay cuts. the proposal was a last-ditch attempt to keep the orchestra solvent. so the players strike?! arrrggh.
the spokesman said that it was to keep cleveland among the best orchestras, to keep them competitive by allowing cleveland to continue to attract the best players. hope that works out for them when the organization folds...
I'm sorry puddles, I have more empathy for haitians than for out of work american lawyers. Go figure.
Similary I would expect people to have less empathy for me than for someone, for example, raised by a single mother in the projects. I'm lucky and I know it. I don't whine to the ny times about my diminished professional prospects.
Manta - I totally agree with you too. I have little empathy for anyone who bitches and complains about not getting their bonus or their "guaranteed" promotion these days. And seriously... while I know the paycut would suck (it sucks for everyone) for the orchestra at least you have a f***ing job.
But I also have empathy for the law students I know. My friend, who is currently the sole provider is a freelance writer who isn't getting much work right now and they have a 16 month old son. They don't own a house and live more frugally than I do. They, like us, are struggling and I can't help but worry about what they are going to do if she doesn't get a book writing contract and they are without her husband's school stipend between the time he graduates and starts his job.
SW - FYI orchestral muscians all have very cushy jobs. My friend's sister is a cello player. Talk about some divas. Sheesh. If rehearsal goes over the time alotted they all walk out, even if they're in the middle of seomething. WTF!?!?!
The Dallas orchestra went on strike over Christmas, but I felt they had reason. The production of the nutcracker decided to use recorded music instead of the orchestra.
nam, that's in July and I'm barely keeping up with next week. But it sounds interesting. Monday, I'm going here for the morning and early afternoon before studio.
Steven my response to your story is: "Cleveland has an orchestra?" Methinks not for much longer...
I am currently experiencing what I will call "employment guilt", which is to say, there are so many unemployed people and I definitely feel your pain, but I also feel guilty for having a job. So I'm having lunch and coffee with every unemployed person I come into contact with just to brainstorm ideas and share with them what worked for me. I've got another one this Friday... actually this is a friend of a friend and I was told he's cute, so that's fun.
Operation Drink Heavily is in its 5th day and it's going well so far... have to watch out for the red wine still, but otherwise I'm pleased. I might go drink and knit now.
must be! but what was she thinking when she got those tats?!? that fan blowing out the window and the cig just make that a classic pic. I was searching for images illustrating 'tragedy of the commons' and google tossed that up.
manta, I no longer click puddles's links at all. I remember once he linked to some pretty good porn... unfortunately I was at the office at the time. No more clicking links after that!
I think that my office is really making out on this lucky-to-have-a-job feeling. At any other time we'd be having a talk about the massive amounts of overtime I've worked, but right now I keep my mouth shut.
Am I the only one who thinks that people tatooing themselves like that is slightly ridiculous? I mean that shit is permanent. Do you think they ever wake up one day, look in the mirror and say to themselves "You know, I'm kinda sick of these stripes".
DubK - I'm beginning to wonder if perhaps I need to begin such an operation. I think my year of trying to think positively just ended. That was a good run. Lasted 20 days (well actually more b/c it started in November). MEH!!!
I know a law student who just graduated. He had a job offer 6 months ago, but not anymore.
He is currently living at home and studying for Fl BAR.
Also, i want to start going to more lectures and such around the university and city. I am always getting notices re: them through my place on the CRA review board and etc but it seems as if they are almost always in the middle of the regular work day.
Now that you work at a planning agency-- most of which are notorious for the most awkward meeting times on the shortest notices-- talking about how other organizations have weirdly scheduled events!
Sorry. Had to point that out.
A certain county that is dolling out tons of planning and economic development work that may or may not be facing extreme unemployment that may or may not have a failing and dying space industry gave the public a 3-hour notice that the planning meeting for this was taking place.
Mind you this was the ultimate meeting to go to get work.
Assuming you received the newspaper at 4 am... that was the 3 hours notice that the meeting was at 7:15 am the same day. They wonder why people don't get involved even when they're giving out work!
Also Unicorn Slaughter, unfortunately I am just "working" as a citizen volunteer. I do hope to work in that field at some point. But first i need to go back to school to get another MA so I have the credentials..
tuna, I definitely feel the same. I'm even tired of the smallish tattoo that I have, not because I regret having ink at all, but because I'm just tired of that particular thing. Fortunately I can always go to a good artist and ask them to do a coverup... somehow I think that'd be harder when you have tiger stripes all over.
yeah, excessive tats make me feel sad for the wearer. I have a small tattoo I got when I was 18. I want to get it reworked, but know I never will.
My new "career" is isn't all put together yet, but essentially my husband's boss wants to move closer to her family (her mother is ailing) and sell the business. He is the only other employee. So she wants to sell the business to us and is working on a proposal.
it takes a "special" kind of crazy to get tattooed like that, you are severely limiting your job potential to that of circus geek or fetish porn actor.
i am now, officially, a member of a city arts commission. i will get to sit in city council chambers once a month, deciding the fate of art in the big citay.....my plan is in starting to fall into place, muwahhhaahaaa!!
funny thing about that, i remember when this was first reported, about a year ago; i contacted them and never really heard back about anything. now, what i figure is that, who needs them, to do what i am already doing?
i guess i can rip-off charles schultz too, and set up my own booth at my local farmers market, and have more of a justification for doing so, given my location and my extreme fondness for all things Peanuts....but hey, maybe i'll just start having online master classes and get people to pay me for my wicked cool kicking k-nowledge?!
Dude in the booth kinda resembles our very own vado, don't ya think?
Ha ha beta... circuse freak and fetish porn actor. I think it's awesome that you are now on the arts commission. What is the first item of business to tackle?
I love the Architecture 5c. guy. I need to show him to my students.
Who by the way are awesome but exhausting! We had some good discussion today. I need to let them talk more and me less because I am wiped.
Strawbeary, good luck.
re: tattoo lady up there: until you all posted, it never occurred to me that those were actual tattoos. I assumed it was Sharpie marker or something, for a costume. Not permanent. Good lord. Does she have whiskers glued to her face, too?
LB, I feel your elation/drained state too. Second lecture in front of 180 students in the can - still need to work on the timing. 45 slides in 45 minutes, so I let the class go 30 minutes early.
First studio met yesterday - I'll post something this weekend on my blog. It was a great first meeting that included a visit by our community arts client/partner that really got the students stoked. I'm impressed by the diversity of the students - two peace corp alum, a former probation officer, an environmental attorney, a master gardener, plus the usual mix of interesting grad school folks.
re:tattoo lady, I'm still amazed by that image - not sure what the stripes are supposed to be - not a tiger or zebra. maybe a superhero?
oh, i am not down on the 5 cent architect guy, i guess i am down on the impression that he was serious about this being a movement to mobilize out of work architects, and would actually contact me after i expressed interest.
if people are looking for ways to assist non-profits or are interested in getting work with non-profits go here One Percent great organization, and not what you think.
tiger lady looks koolio to me. i won't have tats myself but don't care about them one way or the other. not a big fan of the metal covering the face extreme piercing stuff, but even then, well who cares really. it doesn't put me off. like gender prefernces and color, weight, clothes - who cares.
really as long as you are not pat robertson. that man has some disgusting shit hanging on him.
How come everyone is talking only about the 5 cent guy? I thought the ice cream truck girls were cool. And I can relate to the guy that is going to truck driving school. I think I even talked about that before and someone else did too actually...
There was that one bit where the guy says "You feel this year of your life is gone" and I totally related to that. 2008 was a good year for me; awards and travels, job offers, budding relationships etc etc. And then boom: 2009. I'd like to wrap last year in a brown paper bag, light it on fire in front of someone's door step, and ring the doorbell.
Totally random and this probably isn't the right place, but anyone know how to make good Matcha? Mine just tastes like warm, bitter, pasty water.
funny thing about 2009, i was really in a dark place late 08 through mid 09, trying to think how i'd make it through, but now it's 010, and i can't remember what or why i was thinking i'd never make it through. now, i am busy, even though i am unemployed and all i can think about is the future. of course that'll probably all change in a day or two or three...
Thread Central
puddles - interesting article. A friend's husbnad is graduating from law school this year and will be suffering through what the article discusses. He's one of the fortunate ones, actually has a job (they created a new position for him in product law) but he won't start until November I think (he graduates in May) and the salary won't be anywhere near what it used to be. This is a guy that is fluent in Arabic and also has masters from Harvard in International Relations or something like that, yet he's still going to be struggling to pay off his debts just like the rest of us.
Why code? Our company lost a great employee a while back and we have a huge gaping hole where he used to be. He basically created applications that augmented our current softwares or created interoperability between different softwares. When he was around, for some applications I played a kind of software architect role - basically seeing a need for something, initiating the creation of the application, a rough structure of how it should work (what kind of info was needed/exchanged/input, etc), and an idea about the user interface. I was always interested but didn't do the actual programming.
Now I see a need to learn this and there has been a bit of a push by others to fill this need. I have been officially given some time to learn this. Which is nice. I decided the other day when/if I own my own company, I'm going to give my employees a couple solid weeks to research whatever they want on company time as kind of a bonus. Its great for morale.
Now as far as me being at all being competant to learn this any time soon is a whole different matter. Studying for the GREs and having the pressure of taking (not necessarily passing although obviously ideal) all the AREs before my next birthday is weighing on me.
I read that article about lawyers and while the better part of me understands that every person's situation is different, and this must be tough for those guys going through it, who expected something different when they got out of school... but really if I'm honest with myself I just feel like saying "oh quit your whining. You can't buy a house in San Francisco at age 23 anymore (cited in the article)? Aw pumpkin. Suck it up and enjoy the real world like the rest of us." Except they STILL aren't going to struggle anywhere near how 99% of the world struggles. It drives me bonkers that anyone can complain about this. It's like realtors complaining how much their income has dropped. I'm sorry, but you made boatloads of money for years for doing very little work and encouraging the overspeculated market while you were at it. Talk to me when you haven't had a paycheck for a year like a lot of us, and nothing in sight. Argh.
"oh no! you don't have regularly scheduled, guaranteed promotions anymore, but instead you're being rated on your productivity and worth to the firm? aw that sucks! oh no, you've almost made partner and suddenly you're worried that they might even lay you off? boy it must suck to feel like you don't have job security!"
sorry, that article put me in a cynical mood. I must remember : never read what puddles links to!
Very true, Manta. On all accounts.
Tree and others in Minnesota, anyone planning on going to this? Pugh + Scarpa Helps Launch Affordable Housing Conference
i felt similarly about an npr piece on the radio tuesday, manta. i've always been a supporter of the arts but, when i heard that cleveland's orchestra was striking rather than take a voluntary pay cut from their SIX FIGURE salaries, i got pretty cranky. the administration, director on down, had already taken these pay cuts. the proposal was a last-ditch attempt to keep the orchestra solvent. so the players strike?! arrrggh.
the spokesman said that it was to keep cleveland among the best orchestras, to keep them competitive by allowing cleveland to continue to attract the best players. hope that works out for them when the organization folds...
g'afternoon everyone I'm tired and am going to take a nap. I'll talk to you when I wake
oh...i would have expected architects to have some empathy for their fellow professionals. maybe some of us deserve our shitty lives after all.
I'm sorry puddles, I have more empathy for haitians than for out of work american lawyers. Go figure.
Similary I would expect people to have less empathy for me than for someone, for example, raised by a single mother in the projects. I'm lucky and I know it. I don't whine to the ny times about my diminished professional prospects.
Manta - I totally agree with you too. I have little empathy for anyone who bitches and complains about not getting their bonus or their "guaranteed" promotion these days. And seriously... while I know the paycut would suck (it sucks for everyone) for the orchestra at least you have a f***ing job.
But I also have empathy for the law students I know. My friend, who is currently the sole provider is a freelance writer who isn't getting much work right now and they have a 16 month old son. They don't own a house and live more frugally than I do. They, like us, are struggling and I can't help but worry about what they are going to do if she doesn't get a book writing contract and they are without her husband's school stipend between the time he graduates and starts his job.
SW - FYI orchestral muscians all have very cushy jobs. My friend's sister is a cello player. Talk about some divas. Sheesh. If rehearsal goes over the time alotted they all walk out, even if they're in the middle of seomething. WTF!?!?!
The Dallas orchestra went on strike over Christmas, but I felt they had reason. The production of the nutcracker decided to use recorded music instead of the orchestra.
namand, i'd be interested in that, to work with those two would fab!
nam, that's in July and I'm barely keeping up with next week. But it sounds interesting. Monday, I'm going here for the morning and early afternoon before studio.
couldn't resist sharing this:
Is that woman a treekiller?!?
Wow, tk, that's a lot of look.
Steven my response to your story is: "Cleveland has an orchestra?" Methinks not for much longer...
I am currently experiencing what I will call "employment guilt", which is to say, there are so many unemployed people and I definitely feel your pain, but I also feel guilty for having a job. So I'm having lunch and coffee with every unemployed person I come into contact with just to brainstorm ideas and share with them what worked for me. I've got another one this Friday... actually this is a friend of a friend and I was told he's cute, so that's fun.
Operation Drink Heavily is in its 5th day and it's going well so far... have to watch out for the red wine still, but otherwise I'm pleased. I might go drink and knit now.
must be! but what was she thinking when she got those tats?!? that fan blowing out the window and the cig just make that a classic pic. I was searching for images illustrating 'tragedy of the commons' and google tossed that up.
Tragedy of the commons indeed, LOL.
manta, I no longer click puddles's links at all. I remember once he linked to some pretty good porn... unfortunately I was at the office at the time. No more clicking links after that!
I think that my office is really making out on this lucky-to-have-a-job feeling. At any other time we'd be having a talk about the massive amounts of overtime I've worked, but right now I keep my mouth shut.
i'll empathize with an attorney when i make the salary they make.
Am I the only one who thinks that people tatooing themselves like that is slightly ridiculous? I mean that shit is permanent. Do you think they ever wake up one day, look in the mirror and say to themselves "You know, I'm kinda sick of these stripes".
DubK - I'm beginning to wonder if perhaps I need to begin such an operation. I think my year of trying to think positively just ended. That was a good run. Lasted 20 days (well actually more b/c it started in November). MEH!!!
at the remodelled moss
still alive...but sadly realizing that i didn't drink anything last night.
Morning all,
I know a law student who just graduated. He had a job offer 6 months ago, but not anymore.
He is currently living at home and studying for Fl BAR.
Also, i want to start going to more lectures and such around the university and city. I am always getting notices re: them through my place on the CRA review board and etc but it seems as if they are almost always in the middle of the regular work day.
Oh well..
Nam, I hope you smell the irony there.
Now that you work at a planning agency-- most of which are notorious for the most awkward meeting times on the shortest notices-- talking about how other organizations have weirdly scheduled events!
Sorry. Had to point that out.
A certain county that is dolling out tons of planning and economic development work that may or may not be facing extreme unemployment that may or may not have a failing and dying space industry gave the public a 3-hour notice that the planning meeting for this was taking place.
Mind you this was the ultimate meeting to go to get work.
Assuming you received the newspaper at 4 am... that was the 3 hours notice that the meeting was at 7:15 am the same day. They wonder why people don't get involved even when they're giving out work!
I feel closer to my new career now more than ever, it is just right around the corner if everything goes as planned!
straw, which is?
Also Unicorn Slaughter, unfortunately I am just "working" as a citizen volunteer. I do hope to work in that field at some point. But first i need to go back to school to get another MA so I have the credentials..
but re: meetings and schedules. Yes you are right..
What career is that, strawbeary?
And whatsthat saying about how a zebra can change his stipes? Maybe it's leopard and spots. Whatever, still zoo animals.
I'm feeling off center today. I think I may be walking with a slight tilt as well. Hmm
hi strawbeary!!!
tuna, I definitely feel the same. I'm even tired of the smallish tattoo that I have, not because I regret having ink at all, but because I'm just tired of that particular thing. Fortunately I can always go to a good artist and ask them to do a coverup... somehow I think that'd be harder when you have tiger stripes all over.
yeah, excessive tats make me feel sad for the wearer. I have a small tattoo I got when I was 18. I want to get it reworked, but know I never will.
My new "career" is isn't all put together yet, but essentially my husband's boss wants to move closer to her family (her mother is ailing) and sell the business. He is the only other employee. So she wants to sell the business to us and is working on a proposal.
it takes a "special" kind of crazy to get tattooed like that, you are severely limiting your job potential to that of circus geek or fetish porn actor.
i am now, officially, a member of a city arts commission. i will get to sit in city council chambers once a month, deciding the fate of art in the big citay.....my plan is in starting to fall into place, muwahhhaahaaa!!
Anyone read the NYTimes article on unemployed architects? I guess they're doing a series on unemployed professionals.
funny thing about that, i remember when this was first reported, about a year ago; i contacted them and never really heard back about anything. now, what i figure is that, who needs them, to do what i am already doing?
i guess i can rip-off charles schultz too, and set up my own booth at my local farmers market, and have more of a justification for doing so, given my location and my extreme fondness for all things Peanuts....but hey, maybe i'll just start having online master classes and get people to pay me for my wicked cool kicking k-nowledge?!
can someone assist me in nominating Cameron Sinclair for this?
Citizens Medal
we need some good pub.
I like the 5 cent architecture guy. I like to tell people his story.
One of my unemployed architect friends was in the NYT a few months ago. She started her own business and it had a photo of her in her studio.
Dude in the booth kinda resembles our very own vado, don't ya think?
Ha ha beta... circuse freak and fetish porn actor. I think it's awesome that you are now on the arts commission. What is the first item of business to tackle?
melty, i don't charge that much.
I love the Architecture 5c. guy. I need to show him to my students.
Who by the way are awesome but exhausting! We had some good discussion today. I need to let them talk more and me less because I am wiped.
Strawbeary, good luck.
re: tattoo lady up there: until you all posted, it never occurred to me that those were actual tattoos. I assumed it was Sharpie marker or something, for a costume. Not permanent. Good lord. Does she have whiskers glued to her face, too?
Pulling down $50k at 29, in this economy – how does this qualify as unemployed? That’s more than what I made at 29…
LB, I feel your elation/drained state too. Second lecture in front of 180 students in the can - still need to work on the timing. 45 slides in 45 minutes, so I let the class go 30 minutes early.
First studio met yesterday - I'll post something this weekend on my blog. It was a great first meeting that included a visit by our community arts client/partner that really got the students stoked. I'm impressed by the diversity of the students - two peace corp alum, a former probation officer, an environmental attorney, a master gardener, plus the usual mix of interesting grad school folks.
re:tattoo lady, I'm still amazed by that image - not sure what the stripes are supposed to be - not a tiger or zebra. maybe a superhero?
oh, i am not down on the 5 cent architect guy, i guess i am down on the impression that he was serious about this being a movement to mobilize out of work architects, and would actually contact me after i expressed interest.
if people are looking for ways to assist non-profits or are interested in getting work with non-profits go here One Percent great organization, and not what you think.
My kid is driving me nuts today. I'm tempted to hand him off to the highest bidder.
Sarah, I always threaten to "leave you roadside" but I think you're very smart to think of an economic payout for child abandonment! ;-)
tiger lady looks koolio to me. i won't have tats myself but don't care about them one way or the other. not a big fan of the metal covering the face extreme piercing stuff, but even then, well who cares really. it doesn't put me off. like gender prefernces and color, weight, clothes - who cares.
really as long as you are not pat robertson. that man has some disgusting shit hanging on him.
How come everyone is talking only about the 5 cent guy? I thought the ice cream truck girls were cool. And I can relate to the guy that is going to truck driving school. I think I even talked about that before and someone else did too actually...
There was that one bit where the guy says "You feel this year of your life is gone" and I totally related to that. 2008 was a good year for me; awards and travels, job offers, budding relationships etc etc. And then boom: 2009. I'd like to wrap last year in a brown paper bag, light it on fire in front of someone's door step, and ring the doorbell.
Totally random and this probably isn't the right place, but anyone know how to make good Matcha? Mine just tastes like warm, bitter, pasty water.
slart, i liked the ice cream truck too.
funny thing about 2009, i was really in a dark place late 08 through mid 09, trying to think how i'd make it through, but now it's 010, and i can't remember what or why i was thinking i'd never make it through. now, i am busy, even though i am unemployed and all i can think about is the future. of course that'll probably all change in a day or two or three...
I may have an interview at an Ivy to be a admissions officer for guess what?!?!? You already know.
And to LB... That is Katzen. She's an Austin area fixture and tattoo artist.
Her whiskers I believe screw into dermal implants/piercings she has.
Some people use them to affix their glasses permanently to their faces.
Others get horns.
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