I'd been ignoring that thread but I just skimmed it and... hoo boy.

I was going to post that there are two kinds of windows: windows that leak, and windows that don't leak yet ... but decided there was already enough going on.

Edit: Nevermind, I hadn't read the latest ... hang on, BRB

Yeah... I considered asking that, but decided not to because their initial post seems like a setup. The comment about knocking out that pesky unnecessary structure sounds like it's written by someone at least a small bit less clueless than they're trying to sound, who wants to prompt an ill-fated lecture on residential construction. And most people who post anything about FLW here are trolls.

Scottish you say?

That's not Scottish - it's a blend of several Celtic and Norsk cultures combined with a tartan used 100 years after the movie was to take place. Yes I am that big of a nerd. 8-)

Is it kind of like this?

Not quite that far but yes.

Wasn't expecting that, I should've known! haha

I was doing it as a service...because of a comment in the free movies thread, revolutionary poet thought that https://archinect.com/forum/thread/150202399/the-autonomous-zone-dint-da-dint-da-dint-da-dint-da/0#last was also purged, while he had some interesting material for it. So I had a very valid reason imo, but whatever...

source: https://archinect.com/forum/th...

Good to know that y'all are too lazy to even read the forum titles carefully. Might explain your arguments.

Lazy? Moi? The effort I had to go through to post all that...first double checking if a certain thread was axed or not, the stress alone about having my work maybe deleted, to then bump that thread and notify the person in the other thread about said thread not being deleted...that's like serious hard work! You're the one being lazy with your lazy and incorrect assumptions, you could've simply asked...

You seem to think I was calling you lazy and not the lazy idiot who couldn't be half-assed to find the thread that was on the first page for over a week. But I guess if the shoe fits, wear it.

As a vegetarian I don't believe in such acts of violence and do all my ass-whooping with words, the best words.

SP, Why calling somebody lazy over that at all? What did you try to get out of that exchange? When something is glued to the front page for quite a while and suddenly gone after some purging went on in similar threads exploring adjacent topics, I'd say it was reasonable to expect it was gone too, no? You just couldn't resist, jumped the gun and showed your hand..."Ha-Ha!" –Nelson Mandela Muntz

I looked for it, too. Guess what? I found it, then decided to hope it would fucking die on its own, and THEN you morons unearthed it for the idiots who seem to be unable to find their own genitals with both hands, a flashlight, and the goddamned light brigade. But sure, what a tremendous self-own.

Since you’re such a jerk-off, I don’t need to bother finding my own genitals, you could simply let go of ‘em, thanks...

Still looking for them, I'll keep you posted.

surprised it last that long honestly.

Does "getting Rick'ed" refer to the befoulment of the thread by the verb's namesake? Or to the subsequent partial or full removal of the thread by the mods? i.e. who does the Ricking?

I had some of my best work in there too... showing restraint is work... right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wQSXBhnxl8

Well that thread was fucked from the start when b2ta posted the racist "fuck whitey" as the first comment, and I'm the bad guy here? I just want to point out that none of my comments there were hidden or removed, unless they fall under a hidden post by b3ta or otherwise of course. And no that thread does not have my best work because I simply quote b2ta's own source.

it's all so simple when you never accept responsibility, ain't it?

Sponty, that's a good question. We should come to an agreement on the terminology. My intent was to signal that it had been moderated quite extensively to remove the namesake's comments. It could also refer to the collateral damage such removal causes. For example, NS's comments got Rick'ed in the process. For the first issue, that of a thread getting befouled by the verb's namesake, I've used "balkinize," or "balkinization" in the past to refer to this. Below is an example from earlier this year giving more context:

SneakyPete, I will not accept any responsibility for a racist writing 'fuck whitey' as a first comment on an item, you can be sure of that!

For the record, randomised, I don't think anyone was calling you the bad guy ... I wasn't FWIW. I was alluding to your earlier comments about the monuments thread as this was also monument related. More inside joke than finger pointing. I was blaming Rick, not you. I still wasn't calling him a bad guy though.

I'll call Rick a bad guy based on the shit he posted. I'll call you disingenuous, rando, but I'd bet big bucks that most of your firmly held principles would go right out the window for anyone you care about, and that's meant as a compliment.

I know EA, that's not how I read it at all. I got the joke, I just responded too ambiguously. It was more a reaction to the discussion in that particular thread to SneakyB3ta than to your post, 4D chess gone wrong...I totally missed Rick's contributions to it by the way.

4d chess, man even your references are wrong and dumb

That was ironic you numbnuts.

You can call me whatever you want SneakyPete, but you don't even know what those principles are that I apparently hold so firmly, yet you seem to criticise me for them non-stop.

x-jla, those numbnuts were meant for SP

Watch it j-lax, I was watching Reds this weekend, and I think Jack Reed was right; nothing guns, fire squads, getting rid of the dead weight.

Irony. You wield it so well as long as it's accidental.

It looks like we've been unRick'ed.

That's gotta burn.

I’ve been drinking quads all evening. I am in no mind state to respond in an intelligent way to this. Carry on.

“ Irony. You wield it so well as long as it's accidental.”

Ironic, isn’t it...:-P

Like rain on your wedding day

I don't think I'm breaking any rules here by posting these. Yes the thread has been removed, but apparently the comments still live on in the recorded comment histories of those involved (there's a metaphor in there re: monument removal and how it doesn't actually erase any history ... but we don't need to go into it). So since they are still accessible to any user of the site, here is the original comment from gwharton and the reply from Gregory Walker (the end of gwharton's comment get's cut off but it ends "[...] in the first place, On both sides."):

Only place I've been able to find Rick is the thumbs he's left around here and there:

He might be back already...

Last night he posted a racist rant, accusing this site of discriminating against him for being white and male, and predicting that they would quickly delete the post. It lasted very briefly - maybe a few minutes before it evaporated - seemingly with all his other posts. When a similar last straw type thing happened a few years ago (that time he cut and pasted a pages-long homophobic rant from Reddit) he was back with a new name within days.

If that's the case, I can't imagine Paul would let him come back again. I reached out to him via email last night and he indicated he wasn't sure what he said to get blocked. He also didn't seem to upset about it, at least in his writing. I told him to focus on his goals. Maybe this will be a good thing for him.

He certainly did know that last night's post was likely to be perceived negatively and removed. The post was overtly racist and misogynist, quite self-aware of that, and written as a direct dare to the mods to do something about it, even containing a statement to the effect that he was sure it wouldn't be visible for long. What he seemed to be going for was a deletion of that thread, so that he could in turn use that as the basis for his next rant, and so on. He may not have anticipated that the mods would extrapolate the consequences to a full ban - but it shouldn't have been a genuine surprise.  He should have suspected he was on very thin ice already, given his history.

You're correct, he knew the post was inflammatory and was meant to provoke the moderators, as he later recounted. 

He's now emailing me with opinions about the conversations here and responses to posts like yours. I just wanted to reach out to get some clarity and offer some empathy for him getting the boot. I didn't think it would result in 3 unsolicited and unnecessary replies today (somethings never change, amiright!?). It could be worse though. I could have used an email account associated with my real name instead of a throw-away one. 

At any rate ... so long, Astoria. He'll eventually get bored without the attention.

Yeah randomized he is back already. Grammar always gets him.

I don't disagree with all that you posted, however you seem to have a big chip on your shoulder regarding licensing. Is this something personal?

But what about the value of said license when cruising the bar scene? What about making small talk at cocktail parties?

Are you telling me that in Canada there are architectural groupies?

So many groupies that I need to repel them with a sharpened T square.

Chad, I think everyone has some weird hangup that can't rationally be explained - I guess this is mine. I got my license within 5 years of graduating and had no problems except the inexplicable 9 month delay between passing the last test and having my record sent to the state board. This was due to staff at ncarb mis-filing my record (twice!) for which convenience they charged the regular $450 or whatever it was...

Non, I can only think of one time I had to sneak out of a bar to get away from unwanted affection, and that's entirely my fault for dressing in my only nice suit for an important meeting before heading out with my tall+strong-pheromone buddy for drinks. I never even told her my license number or state (it's a biggish one!).

mid, sometimes once is one time too many. Close call in your case, you should be more careful.

I was once offered to be part of a threesome with a woman who swims as a mermaid at the Denver aquarium. Her husband wanted to watch. So that was because I'm an architect?

I once had a bartender pour me a glass of Oban 14 single malt like it was a bottle of white wine. This is probably because he was so enamoured with my license.

narrator: it was more than one glass

So does the number on my license impact it's effectiveness on swooning others? Is a lower or higher number desirable?

Bigger is always better, Chad.

For once a thread takes a turn for the better!

“Where problems happen it's always in some perverse subtlety of miscommunication that licensing can't prevent because it's genuinely accidental.” Lol… bullshit. I do this for a living. The death lawsuits I’ve done are not subtle miscommunications; these are details, created by the architect, that caused someone’s death. Fire-ratings; that’s you. Exiting plans; you. Moisture management systems failures that caused the rot in the framing; you . Poor material choices used in bad places; you. Vapor, condensation, ventilation of attics; you. Flame-spread; you. Observations to notify non-conforming work; you. Guardrail details; you. Handrails; you. Pool-enclosures; you. The list goes on and on… and these mistakes are with a license. Without? Go ahead and youtube a DIY for UL assemblies, exiting plans, and how to interpret codes and standards. Those questions go over well here right? A house is a much different project than anything regulated by the IBC. That larger stuff needs at least some minimal standards of whom is qualified to design and lead it; to decide, that means a test unless you can think of some other way besides just taking your word for it. So even those egotistical architects who tout design godhood… probably know building code and understand building sciences; they know more than just how to make it pretty; they know how to select and detail systems and put a lot of thought behind those things during the design. Joe-Bob probably doesn’t even understand why, how or how to stop condensation on his beer can. Architects had a f’n class that covered it.

mightyaa - your perspective on this is interesting. what reasons do you see behind properly licensed architects making these mistakes? my point is that despite its length and complexity, the AXP process does almost nothing to ensure architects develop useful and relevant technical knowledge. it's just logging hours in categories. generic experience doesn't yield specific knowledge. i for one wouldn't touch type 3/4 construction on my own because my fully-compliant internship and work experience never included it. i'm peeved by those architects who think the license itself is absolute proof of their qualifications - all licensed architects have blind spots in their knowledge. like for the bus driver, the license only indicates basic minimum competence. any decent architect knows that they should be seeking out advice from experts with long-term experience in the specific area - and those experts may not be licensed architects. often not, when it comes to building products and envelope assemblies.

internship takes 5600 hours of work (iirc) regardless if it's under a competent architect or not. they have no obligation to make the experience informative and you may or may not learn anything useful. from the public perspective it provides a false assurance of expertise. so i'm annoyed when some architects hold up their license as a mark of superiority that needs to be defended. you have excellent knowledge that i suspect exceeds what the typical practicing architect knows - how much of it came from studying for the exams and internships versus from experience during a career focused on seeing buildings built?

Midlander, it isn’t just the AXP. First there is the NAAB education; there are requirements for programs to gain accreditation. https://www.naab.org/wp-content/uploads/2020-NAAB-Conditions-for-Accreditation.pdf That’s 5-6 years of training. Then the AXP, then the ARE. But the intent is clear; there is actually a lot of stuff you should know if you are designing buildings and some basic agreed upon standards are necessary. Basically, advanced societies realized the health, safety and welfare of their citizens need to have some sort of assurances those they hire are qualified and trained to do that work. Think of it this way. Do you consciously do a risk assessment before walking through the door in a newer building constructed in a highly regulated first world nation? Would you in a third world nation where regulations/certifications aren’t tight? You should. An example; One year ago a 7.1 earthquake hit LA.. no deaths, no biggy. A 6.9 earthquake hit Indonesia august 2018 and 460 people died, and one later in sept of the same year hitting 7.5 killed 2,000. Do you think this is luck? Nope.. I’m sure you know some shitty architects, but I’d still rather have them than some non-trained guy with a hammer and a ‘can do attitude’. I know that shitty architect at several points had to actually pass classes, had to learn certain shit, trained under someone who is actually licensed and practicing, and had to pass another exam showing he/she at least knows something about buildings. The other guy just had to buy a computer and drafting software; nothing in the way of actual training.

#performative allyship

https://www.thebellows.org/the-art-of-the-bad-faith-argument/

Is that why they have closed comments and deleted a bunch that were already there?

Cracking down on trolls and racists. Not welcome here.

No dissent allowed, comrades. Agree or go to the gulag.

Wasn’t trolling or being racist archinect, just questioned the idea as a slippery slope towards more division rather than inclusivity. Your overreaching by “cracking down” shows that slope is even more slippery than I indicated initially...again, proving my point for me :-(

decisions are based not only on one or two comments, they are taken into the consideration of a user's history. gwharton - bummed we removed your comment about putting nazi-style colored triangles on firm profile owned by diverse individuals?

gwarton - not quite accurate. assholes that troll with shitty comments are not allowed and can fuck off :)

Identifying people by race using colored icons does have a history you seem ashamed to allow to be discussed. It's revealing that you consider pointing out the uncomfortable history of that approach to be "trolling." And that you feel the need to insult people who might dare to bring it up.

oh, so you didn't read the article. you jumped to the comments section based on how the cover image made you feel...

this initiative, to raise awareness of firms owned by underrepresented groups, is part of a bigger social movement to help lift up business owners and communities that have lived through struggle due to systemic discrimination and racism. Archinect is hardly the first to take a stance here. before we released this publicly we had numerous discussions with members of the architecture community about this new feature, making a few modifications, before we reached an approach everyone agreed with. you, on the other hand, don't seem to represent the demographic that would appreciate anything of the sort.

My goodness you sure do love to make assumptions about people, don't you. I did read the article. Just because the designation is voluntary doesn't change the history of these sorts of things. But please, continue rationalizing and judging people who dare to disagree with your narrative.

if you don't like us moderating your hate-speech and dog-whistling then PLEASE find another website to troll.

you're such an idiot. you're ricky's dumber, more confident twin.

Yeah, I called you a name. Now cry about it.

you, idiot.

This is so frequently relevant I have it saved on my work desktop

Take it any way you want. I'll celebrate if you stop turning up around here. Same with randomised, gwharton, and the random username generator fan club you guys have following you around smearing feces on the walls. This is a website, not some last bastion of all that makes america free and amazing, and you certainly won't change that with your constant mouth breathing.

tduds, I LOVE that dril tweet, so much.

randomized, you said, unless I misunderstood, that b3ta using the term "whitey" is racist. This is wrong, according to contemporary cultural norms. I know I've said this to you before, but I'll repeat it (though I despair of you ever being able to recognize the distinction): "reverse racism" is not a real thing. Racism *always* involves punching down. White people, in the US, are and have been the dominant culture. When white people, like me, make fun of white people, and when any other non-white group makes fun of white people, it's not racism. It may be rude, or mean, or over-generalized, or simplification, or lots of other things, but it's not racism. If Archinect doesn't want to allow *racism* on its website, that's Archinect's choice.

So Donna, when does it switch to being punching down. Being afraid to have any opinion that stands up or celebrates your achievements, culture and history for fear of being socially and economically cancelled doesnt sound like white males are punching down. Sounds more like punching up. I' d think it would be more important to focus on equality than trying to play some highly complex game of whose got more disadvantaged points and who can punch who. I was raised that you should treat everyone equally. Seems as though you are preaching that you can treat certain people badly based on their race. I would say that's racist.

Well you tried, Donna.

"So Donna, when does it switch to being punching down" 

We got a long ways to go before that, bucko. Chill.

Donna, "fuck whitey" was just an example, among many other things. But that's not the issue. Those contemporary cultural norms you mention are skewed when they allow for racist hate speech just because of the sender, while it is in the receiving where the racism occurs, no? It has nothing to do with punching down or up, the racism is in the punching! I thought racial profiling was a thing to be protested against, but apparently, I'm out of touch with your zeitgeist. But here's a thing, maybe those stigmatising labels of colours to highlight diversity that have been dusted off can also be applied to usernames here, so the lucky mofo with the most labels can say the most vile, sexist, hateful and racist things and there's nothing anyone can do about it. And anyone who dares to question such a backwards system, who warns about the possible negative ramifications, a system that divides rather than unites will feel the fury of the archinect mob. Great job(!)

randomized, so you're saying you don't understand? how willful is that? do you want to try to understand, or are you pretty happy with where you're at?

I don’t understand why racism is used to counter racism, true...I would love to understand why people think that is considered progress or progressive.

So under Donna's logic if a minority shoots a bunch of the dominant group. That's not a hate crime or racist? Its punching up correct? I'm just not following how one group can hold negative stereotypes based on race but it's okay for them.

"The invitation to explain clearly observable things to a person demonstrating a clear desire not to observe them is not as enticing a proposition as many seem to think." -AR Moxon

archi_dude, correct, that is not a "racist" crime. Still a crime (unless in self-defense) and it can be called racially motivated, but the term "racist" today has a specific meaning.

A bad analogy: I do the same work that an architect does, but I am not an architect, because most people agree that "architect" has specific credentials that I do not have. 

*sigh*

If we were living in a world without any historical context to shape our definitions of words and give them meaning beyond the black and white text in a dictionary ... you'd be correct in asserting that racism would include targeted prejudice, discrimination, animosity, etc. toward a person because of their racial or ethnic group. This would be true regardless of the person's race doing the targeting, and likewise the race of the person being targeted. 

First, however, we do live in a world with historical context and you'll find that it is commonly accepted that reverse-racism is not a thing (unless you're in a conservative bubble) because the common understanding of racism is that it is targeted against a minority group or marginalized group. White people have never been a minority or marginalized in the US. 

Second, using a dictionary definition isn't a good way to settle a dispute. At least Merriam-Webster thinks so: "Dictionaries are often treated as the final arbiter in arguments over a word’s meaning, but they are not always well suited for settling disputes. The lexicographer’s role is to explain how words are (or have been) actually used, not how some may feel that they should be used, and they say nothing about the intrinsic nature of the thing named by a word, much less the significance it may have for individuals. When discussing concepts like racism, therefore, it is prudent to recognize that quoting from a dictionary is unlikely to either mollify or persuade the person with whom one is arguing."

archidude your scenario would be *race-motivated* but not racist. Read Wood Guy’s post.

And an example of how “treating everyone equally” isn’t good enough. If two people are approaching two adjacent doors, and they both appear able-bodied but one of them has their hands full of big bulky things, who should you rush to hold the door open for?

(That reply was to you, archi-dude, because you proposed that treating everyone equally was your approach.)

So, if you want to get in the door, make sure to bear as much baggage as possible, and then some? That's probably why Elizabeth Warren had to make up her indigenous heritage...

.

https://www.dailydot.com/irl/ainsley-whynacht-indigenous-scholarship/

Everyday Architect, racism is still racist even when not directed at marginalised or minority groups, it is about the belief someone is inferior because of their skin colour, ethnicity, nationality, culture or race etc. and where that person stands on the ladder of marginalism does not matter as such at all. There's no free pass for racism.

randomised, it appears you read my earlier post because you're directing this to me, but it is also obvious you did not read my earlier post because you obviously didn't grasp what I clearly wrote and you've offered no substantive rebuttal of the point I made. 

Do I need to post it again? I don't think I do ... I think you're intentionally missing the point. See tduds' earlier comments about bad faith arguments and the invitation to point out clearly observable things to someone with no desire of observing them. 

Then, if you're so inclined, go ahead and read my post again and come back with a better (good faith) argument than the argument I shot down with my earlier post. If not, tduds has a pacifier for you (make sure to read the warning label).

I'm responding to the post in this particular thread below my post of the archinect "about" section. What did I miss? 

There is no historical context where it is okay to be racist, and racism in selfdefense does not exist either. So, how is that a bad faith argument? What argument did you shoot down, I really don't see it. 

I don't know why it is ridiculous to say that all racism is wrong, directed at marginalised, minority groups or otherwise. If that sounds so ridiculous, well I guess I'm sorry for sounding ridiculous.

It's not that racism isn't wrong it's that what you're describing as a Devil's Advocate Strawman is not racism, which has been *repeatedly* explained to you in these replies. At a certain point the misunderstanding becomes a choice.

Moving the goalposts fallacy. No one is arguing against you that all racism is wrong ... racism is bad (mmkay?). 

this is futile. ignorance by choice is incurable. randomised is a lost cause. toss him on the trash heap along with all the other garbage.

Sorry, but you guys are claiming that when racism occurs against non-marginalised or non-minority groups that this is in some weird way not racism, that this only happens in textbooks or something. I think such an assumption to only see minorities or marginalised people as potential victim of racism, is perhaps even racist. Every human being can be a racist or a victim of racism, to reserve that victimhood to specific groups of people or individuals is in and of itself racist I suppose. Why is it a devil's advocate strawman tactic, I just point out again and again, that also non-minorities or non-marginalised people can be a victims of racism, what is wrong with that? Maybe you are all misunderstanding things deliberately and collectively, I'm here to guide you, from a place that is already much more advanced in practically every which way, if I were you I'd better pay attention as you might learn something :-) For about two decades we already legalised gay marriage in the constitution, it's been accepted widely to be gay openly decades prior already but legislation had to catch up, weed and marihuana are legal ever since I can remember, we have a humanistic approach to euthanasia which is legal and supervised by doctors for about two decades as well, we have like 5 times more multicultural relationships here in Old Amsterdam than in your former New Amsterdam across the pond, with the percentage of non-Dutch heritage for Amsterdam residents over 50% (For the entire country it is just below 25%). I am actually a minority here, but my kids are not :-) I know the US has some deep-rooted issues with race and skin colour and segregationism, I read archinect too and that's why I'm here...but people don't want to hear it or discuss it because there is only room for one narrative and one narrative only. I'm just telling that adding diversity labels to company profiles is not the way forward in my opinion but backwards and emphasizes people's differences rather than what unites them, us, it makes people retreat into their own safely labelled bubble rather than extend that hand outwards. My ancestors came to Holland to flee being labelled and eventually persecuted for their diversity and found their freedom, without labels, as individuals as human beings. When diversity labelling can eventually become a tool to give and take away agency according to the right labels they've (been) attached or not, is that bringing things further? I sincerely believe not. I hope you will see this as well one day and that your society can be as progressive and open as where I live, but until then you are almost a lost cause. Look at your broken binary political system and those demented old white guys that are supposed to lead the way, that binaryism translates into archinect as well. You either get in line, follow the party, the editor, the TC-mob, the doctrine, or you're out. There's no room for discussion, everybody holds on to their own truths as if they were poured in concrete, nobody is willing to look for the common ground, what people share. You're either with us or against us. Binary. The political system in the Netherlands is built on this looking for common ground, and that starts by accepting our differences but look for what we share. We don't have this winner takes all mentality, we look out for one another especially the people that didn't win (yet), and we wear a mask if it is uncomfortable but helps our neighbour. Just look at the state your self-centred country is in, it is literally crumbling on all levels and all you do is fight with people you disagree with or try to cancel them or silence them rather than look for a way forward together. And it is not because of any outside influence, no Putin or China or Al Qaida or whatever, it is you, all you. Too busy punching up and down...just as long as you can punch someone, if not here, then there, anywhere. Okay that's it, now I'm going to suck on a pacifier, luckily my son has some lying around...from natural organic rubber of course, not that toxic plastic shit tduds posted.

Balkins 2.0 up there.

TLDR: Rando is a white Dutch man who is now a minority in the Netherlands and is upset he can't claim racism against himself.

Rando, more words doesn't make you less wrong

Such a bad faith argument if I ever saw one. For the record, I found the common ground--first in the dictionary definition, and then again with "all racism is bad"--hoping we could, in good faith, understand (not necessarily agree with) one another's viewpoints. I've acknowledged that the view of reverse racism could be fine without any context ... I understand where it is coming from. Unfortunately, I don't agree with it. 

So randomised, I've given you mostly what you want: you have your common ground, you have me understanding your viewpoint and accepting the differences, they only thing I'm not giving you is my agreement in your ridiculous views because I can't do that in good conscience. I'll even give you a final anecdotal account, my own, of living for years in a foreign country and being persecuted for who I was, a white American. 

While living there, I had rocks thrown at me while just walking down the street, I was called names (many of them directly linked to my nationality), I was spat upon, I was told to leave and go home, I was taken advantage of, and I was mistreated (even to the point of being robbed) all because of people's preconceived notions (some correct, some incorrect) about my nationality, ethnicity, politics, wealth, and religion. You, or others, may consider that reverse racism. I don't for one really simple reason ... I'm a privileged, white, male American and I went there voluntarily, and at anytime I wanted to I could have just gotten a plane ticket and gone home (at the time it didn't feel like I was privileged, but I definitely was even though my family was, by the American definition, poor and we'd have barely been able to afford the plane ticket). 

While I can't come close to understanding the true effects of racism (and please don't take this account as me thinking I do), I believe in part that those people truly suffering racism are made to feel like they are inferior, unacceptable, don't belong, and have no recourse because they do not have the same privileges and opportunities that those persecuting and discriminating against them have. I think that last part is a key difference. White people in the US have always had more privilege and opportunity than any other group ... full stop. 

Until you're involuntarily forced into a place with that type of inferiority pushed on you, and you are truly marginalized, I don't think you have any claim to being a victim of racism. Harassment? Possibly. Ill-treatment? Of course. Persecution? Sure, as I even claimed this in my recounting above ... but not racism. Not even close to experiencing racism. This is why I can claim I understand where the concept of reverse racism is coming from, but I cannot in good conscience accept it as something that actually happens here because I also understand the historical context that has shaped racism in my country.

@Non Sequitur

Balkins 2.0 up there.

–Probably :) Long train ride, didn't feel like editing.

 
@Chad Miller
TLDR: Rando is a white Dutch man who is now a minority in the Netherlands and is upset he can't claim racism against himself.

–That you didn't read it is very clear. 
 
@curtkram
Rando, more words doesn't make you less wrong.

–I just see things a little different.

@Everyday Architect
Such a bad faith argument if I ever saw one. For the record, I found the common ground--first in the dictionary definition, and then again with "all racism is bad"--hoping we could, in good faith, understand (not necessarily agree with) one another's viewpoints. I've acknowledged that the view of reverse racism could be fine without any context ... I understand where it is coming from. Unfortunately, I don't agree with it.

–Saying that every person can be a victim of racism is not an argument in bad faith but a simple fact. To deny that might actually be racist, no?

So randomised, I've given you mostly what you want: you have your common ground, you have me understanding your viewpoint and accepting the differences, they only thing I'm not giving you is my agreement in your ridiculous views because I can't do that in good conscience. I'll even give you a final anecdotal account, my own, of living for years in a foreign country and being persecuted for who I was, a white American. 

–It is so ridiculous to state that non-minorities can't be a victim of racism. Sorry but it simply is. Anyone can be the target of racism, anyone. You yourself once joined in on a conversation I had with b3ta after Albert Speer Jr. died. I accused b3ta of being racist towards me/Dutch people in that case. I called him out for cheering the guy's death and things spiralled out of control and you actually agreed and backed me up on that accusation. Unfortunately, the thread/post got scrubbed clean afterwards but I'm sure you remember the exchange. 

While living there, I had rocks thrown at me while just walking down the street, I was called names (many of them directly linked to my nationality), I was spat upon, I was told to leave and go home, I was taken advantage of, and I was mistreated (even to the point of being robbed) all because of people's preconceived notions (some correct, some incorrect) about my nationality, ethnicity, politics, wealth, and religion. You, or others, may consider that reverse racism. I don't for one really simple reason ... I'm a privileged, white, male American and I went there voluntarily, and at anytime I wanted to I could have just gotten a plane ticket and gone home (at the time it didn't feel like I was privileged, but I definitely was even though my family was, by the American definition, poor and we'd have barely been able to afford the plane ticket). 

–I would definitely call that being a victim of racism and racist abuse, they attacked you for your ethnicity, nationality, religion etc. A textbook(!) case. The fact that you don't want to see it like that, I really don't understand.

While I can't come close to understanding the true effects of racism (and please don't take this account as me thinking I do), I believe in part that those people truly suffering racism are made to feel like they are inferior, unacceptable, don't belong, and have no recourse because they do not have the same privileges and opportunities that those persecuting and discriminating against them have. I think that last part is a key difference. White people in the US have always had more privilege and opportunity than any other group ... full stop. 

–The amount of privilege or opportunities a person in theory has or doesn't have has nothing to do with being immune for being on the receiving end of racism and racist abuse. Anyone can be made to feel like they are inferior, unacceptable or don't belong somewhere. To claim otherwise, sorry I really don't get that. If somebody would say 'Kill all the Black people!', that is obviously racist. If somebody would say 'Kill all the White people!', that is also racist. At least where I come from it is both considered racist, you don't need to look at who says it and who it is said to, but you simply need to look at what is being said, and in both cases that would be considered racist.

Until you're involuntarily forced into a place with that type of inferiority pushed on you, and you are truly marginalized, I don't think you have any claim to being a victim of racism. Harassment? Possibly. Ill-treatment? Of course. Persecution? Sure, as I even claimed this in my recounting above ... but not racism. Not even close to experiencing racism. This is why I can claim I understand where the concept of reverse racism is coming from, but I cannot in good conscience accept it as something that actually happens here because I also understand the historical context that has shaped racism in my country.

–Sorry but I still disagree, I think anyone can be a victim of racism and anyone can be perpetrator of racism.

–I think this focus on White privilege is distracting too much from the fight against racism, it makes all White people seem guilty and complicit when the focus should be more on the social and structural issues as the laws, practices and institutions that maintain racial discrimination, in my opinion.

"To deny that might actually be racist, no?"

No.

Oh.

i don't think understanding white privilege should make you feel guilty. i think if you understood what white privilege is, you would be more likely to understand why people are telling you reverse racism isn't a thing.

I understand what White privilege is, but I don't think the primary focus should be necessarily on it. Put the energy in ending the structural injustices that hit Black people hardest. When individuals acknowledge their White privilege it often ends there, they've acknowledged it and move on, feeling better about themselves. It doesn't change anything structurally within the system.

You just said it makes all white people seem guilty, then you said they move on, feeling better about themselves?

Yes indeed! The concept or theory vs the harsh reality...

curtkram, you see, he’ll accept there is a difference between a concept or theory and the harsh reality when it suits him. But when it comes to reverse racism, he’ll continue to beat the concept without understanding the harsh reality. Think of how much energy he could be putting into ending structural injustices that hit Black people hardest if he simply stopped caring how white people felt about things that don’t exist in reality.

it's always easier to invent a boogeyman than try to understand things as they are.

EA, I've never not accepted that difference! But you can't ignore the true meaning of racism just because it suits your interpretation. Why is racial profiling unacceptable when done by police officers but applauded when done by college admission boards? 

By the way, the structural injustices hit Black people hardest because the American system first and foremost hates the poor, it just so happens to be (because of racism among other things) that there are relatively more Black people in poverty. 

The entire prison system seems to disfavour Black people not just because they're Black but because they're poor. And the poor need to be dealt with accordingly! As Americans use their prisoners as the new slave labourers, check the 13th Amendment that "abolished" slavery: 

"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, EXCEPT AS A PUNISHMENT FOR CRIME whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.". 

Almost everything made by larger corporations that has Made in USA on it, was made by prisoners/slave labour. But go and acknowledge your privilege, happy 4th...

Non, which boogeyman?

Speaking as a spec writer, I wish more PAs/PMs understood the value of cracking open a beer and relaxing with a set of specs. I hope it was good beer.

atelier nobody, does that only apply to PAs and PMs? Or, and hear me out, does that mean that as a spec writer you should always have a beer cracked open?

Well, personally I'm a teetotaler for medical reasons, but for those who can, it has been my observation that all aspects of architecture practice go well with beer.

Design drunk, edit... less drunk.

I think they also removed Rick himself again last night. Either that or somebody had gone to the trouble of making a new account for the sole purpose of emulating Rick's language foibles, political views, and compulsion to antagonize Donna.

And TC just became a little paler...that forced diversity stance is really working miracles(!) 

Sorry, it's Canadian:

My heart bleeds for you and your valiant defense of inclusivity.

5839, I wouldn't put it past him. Give him a half a day and I'm sure I'll have an email from him either confirming or denying that.

I’m sure it does Pete, bright green or something...

Did I miss something?

no, you did not.

I couldn't make it through Bohemian Rhapsody. But I think it had more to do with the setting... was a little tipsy and it was being projected onto a fabric screen outdoors which was rippling slightly in the breeze and I was getting pretty queasy.

We're looking forward to starting Perry Mason soon. We've been watching Penny Dreadful, City of Angels, and it's 'meh' at best. I t seems like Perry Mason might be the show we were hoping City of Angels would be.

I'm watching Giri/Haji which is serviceable gangster TV series with good character acting. Definitely looking forward to getting to Dark Season 3. Dark is one of the best shows I have ever seen.

Sneaky I started Dark last night. Disappointed it is dubbed, but it seems cool so far? I've only seen the first episode.

It. Gets. Weird... Especially in season 3. And yes, the dubbing is awkward. I started with just subtitles so I had an accurate sense of what the performers really sounded like when I crossed over to dubbing.

Might need to start a TV thread...

OH NO! Don't watch the dub! Read the subs so you can enjoy the actor's real voices.(to each their own). The story is complex, but the acting is SO GOOD.

Yeah I will try to figure out how to watch the subtitles if that's an option, definitely. I'll have to ask my teenager how to make that happen - I barely know how to turn on the TV.

I lost interest in the show in the last season. There are big plot holes that the writers appear to 'cover things up' by making the plot really complex and convoluted.

It's easy. First you go in to settings... then click on options...then you'll change your preferences, but be sure to click on access first. To do that you'll have to adjust you locations, and make the general settings more specific...

…and which of the four remote controls do I pick up to do this simple act? Or do I use my kid's X-box gaming thingey to control it?

oculus headset

Try the light dimmer switch. If that does not work, put the washer on delicate cycle and try again.  Works for me.

Whoop! I would be home bathing in maple syrup but I am working today so I can visit one of the most beautiful places in my country the Okanagan Valley in BC this weekend.

You are all a bunch of hosers btw

Fantastic!

We have an extensive collection of Christmas music and every year without fail when I listen to Bob and Doug MacKenzie's version of 12 Days of Christmas I giggle uncontrollably.

Cheers to our Canadian brethren and sistren here on this day.

Watch Norm MacDonald kill at the Canadian Screen Awards (the Candys) a few years back. (First 7 mins are best.)

yours had many more pixels

I wanted to post a video ....

I saw, you also had Great White North up...but it was sharper than the one above, and now it's gone.

OH ....it was a different clip. I thought it didnt work

https://youtu.be/ssCZWBtwUTI

I suspect there are some people for whom that will not seem newsworthy, as they imagine it's their status quo.

Ever since I accidentally swallowed that rare coin.

Spoiler: it’s diamonds. It rains diamonds on Uranus.

Did you know it's pronounce ur-ah-niss and not your-anus? You do now. :)

My wife was able to score some amazing tickets to see it when it came through our city, and we thought it was amazing. But it adds another level to see the original cast.

We were lucky enough to see it live (not the original cast) and it was amaaaaazing. I'll also leave you this. If you're interested in LMM's reaction, the video is on youtube. You might need to put up with Jimmy's dumb antics, but it's worth it.

I had a chance to see this in previews, with original cast, and just couldn't get vacay changed.

Having seen it I would have skipped work. Before I saw it I would not have.

This is a tough one. You don’t need to know french unless you’re moving to either quebec (mandatory) or the capital or if you’re planning on applying for Any government level jobs.

Tell her not to worry, she'll be just fine: https://blogs.studyinsweden.se/2018/03/26/people-in-sweden-speak-excellent-english/

man, Sweden over qc any day.

I was planning to move to Sweden in 2012 before meeting my wife, so naturally, I was learning Swedish. I'll speak with her when she's home from work, that has been a worry for her. I've just been on their job shortage list, and architecture is listed.

You should be commended for your initiative and your knowledge. Do not hold your breath.

zoning shmoning.

I love this story! I know the ending!

Maybe not what you’d want to hear but I don’t think including the client in the last bit of correspondence is wise. Tell the PA who at first said there were no problems and let them deal with client. No point risking loosing a project/client by exposing a flaw.

In normal circumstances I would agree. In this case the owner asked to be included in any design discussion and issues that might arise. Also the owner was adamant that the property line extended to to curb. I'm the PM / PA on the project. It's a small project so just one of the partners (boss) and myself on the job. Structural is our consultant and MEP was hired by the owner.

I have gone through similar situations several times, except I play both roles, and the boss's excitement to get designing often wins.

They should have listened to you, but I'm 200% with NS on this one, no way, no how should the client find this out at the same time as the boss. Admit it, you're understandably pissed they didn't listen to you in the first place, and wanted to show him/her up in front of the client

Nope. I'm secure enough in my abilities and self that I don't need to try and make others look bad to raise my own self esteem. I'm actually disappointed in myself for not politely pushing the need to do a zoning review before commencing a design - this is my fault and I said as much in my correspondence.   

At the owners request the boss wanted me to send a broad overview of everything to the owner as well - designs, coordination, issues, schedule, ect. The owner is very hands on and wants to be included in the entire process. Since the property line situation is a big constraint and will require the design to drastically change and extend the project schedule it was exactly the type of thing the owner wanted to know about and be involved in. I'm just frustrated how much this will complicate and slow down the project.

Have dealt with this type of thing often before... people like to skip steps. Hold your ground, remind them that plenty of steps can be skipped before submitting to AHJs, but we eventually have to get back to them, and if it turns out there's bad news, we'll have wasted time. Only thing I would have done differently is getting to that zoning check earlier... but I get sometimes we're busy. Still haven't convinced principals to charge add services yet when the owners have been informed and request to go ahead. *shrug*

Congrats. Where you been hiding lately?

Welcome back, Josh. I guess we'll be seeing more and less of you in the coming days.

"Where you been hiding lately?" 

Hiding out on Twitter until Balkins got the boot.

Congrats, Josh! Bypass or lapband? My aunt had bypass surgery 30 years ago and it has made a big difference for her.

Bypass. They actually won’t do lap and anymore as it was found to not be nearly as effective. Also, yes there was hiding from Balkins involved.

Balkins is back again. The latest iterations are trying to be stealthy.

Josh, I didn't realize that. Best of luck!

Why don’t you just educate yourself on the various reasons people get bypass and why “just eat less” doesn’t work for a lot of people...including myself.

Koww, why don't you think more, talk less?

the response should be to re-render it hot pink.

Post pictures of the proposed design please! (edit - oh missed it - is that the top image?)

Ed does not represent a firm with varied design portfolio. (https://kodet.com/work/)

I think the proposed is rather understated, nothing as garish as described.

i feel like you need to be an avowed classicist to write a letter like that, or you should be a really badass modern architect, of which mr kodet obviously isn't.

wow... pretty lame... neighbors suck...

thanks for the gridded dots, now have a headache

Genuinely not seeing the problem with the design... the NIMBY's have extra time on their hands with the covid shutdowns.

Now this is how you do it

SUTTLE!

fuck em, who cares about the value of some other wanker's property. The market determines this.

their value might actually improve, depending on what goes on on that ginormous deck...

This is a few years old but remains my go-to response to the "neighborhood character" argument. 

"Everything old was once new, and new things often provoke a backlash. We ought to be humble in believing that our opinions represent some timeless, objective truth, looking backwards or forwards. The same bungalows that seem to us quaint and charming were tacky and soulless to many of the people watching them be built; it seems more than possible that the new apartment buildings we vilify today will be thought of sentimentally by future generations who know them only as an important part of their city since they were born."

  http://cityobservatory.org/the-immaculate-conception-theory-of-your-neighborhoods-origins/

• ASTM E815: "Standard Test Method for Determination of Calcium Fluoride in Fluorspar by EDTA Complexometric Titrimetry" 
• CAN/ULC S-115: "Standard Method of Fire Tests of Firestop Systems" 

You have people thinking these are equivalent twice weekly?!? You must work with some weird people.

Its contractors that think they can pick up any cheap fire spray and use it as a firestopping material

ASTM E814 - Standard Test Method for Fire Tests of Penetration Firestop Systems

I typo'd

It's all good. Just messing with you. I don't envy you Canadians trying to keep contractors in line when it comes to the differences between UL and ULC testing and certifications.

Well if it’s good enough for America!! Lol

Sometimes, it’s a full time job just educating the contractor on UL =\= ULC during shop drawing submittals.

AHip... not to rain hot garbage on your parade here... but E814 (aka UL1479) is an acceptable alternative testing standard when ULC S115 (and S101) is concerned. It's not easy to read, but burried in the XHEZ7 - Through-penetration Firestop Systems Certified for Canada guide, there is a line that identifies category XHEZ. This is a category for UL Through-penetration Firestop Systems and within that category's requirements is testing compliance with UL1479... therefore, although not technically an equivalent test, it is an acceptable alternative testing method.

edit: an alternative testing method that satisfies S115 in the specific application. You would need to make the same comparison for whatever category/system you're reviewing.

whoa whoa whoa guys, architects are just artists. Enough with all this technical crap. Stick to the crayolas.

^have you ever tried to stuff crayolas in a HW gap as a makeshift firestop assembly?

of course

It may not help with smoke or fire, but at least it'll make for some pinterest happy pictures if the even of a fire:

This was from my local AHJ 

"Underwriters Laboratories (United States), CUL mark. Only tests performed to the CAN/ULC S115 Standard after the SCC Canadian accreditation date of October 14 1994 will be accepted. Extrapolations from United States of America ASTM E-814 tests are NOT ACCEPTABLE. ASTM E-814 test methods do not required a hose stream on assemblies up to 1 hour, the hose stream test is a mandatory requirement of the CAN/ULC S115 test method. "

I would put money down that your AHJ does not grasp the whole picture.

edit.  unless you actually require hose-testing as per a code requirement.  hose performance, I believe, is seldom required in my code (OBC).

The hose stream test: comically misunderstood for over 30 years.

funny thing (well, I think it's funny), we used to have a section of our spec template that required shop drawing submittals of firestop systems to show full compliance with F, FT, FH, FTH ratings equal to the FRR of the assembly. It's quite difficult to do that and apparently was in our spec for a few years before I came across it and no one before me bothered to read it or check shops for compliance. I removed that clause since our code only cares for FT.

I just put "Caulk and seal with Hilti FS One firestop sealant or an alternate firestop material conforming to to CAN/ULC-S115 testing & FT rating" on everything smaller than 2" and call it a day

We have a similar note without being prescriptive but we instead reference our code section. We also request submittals of products prior to application anyways so that's when I'll flag those that don't comply. Unless you have a specific need to hose performance... then don't ruin an opportunity to educate your AHJ.

Pretty sure its WTF

This was my favorite archinect chain of comments in a while, thanks guys

https://drawception.com/game/a1N8mj4pP4/dark-inferno/

hahahaha. they burn through staff so quickly.

all they do is crochet architecture?

I first wanted to * and say they crochet statues and installations but since those always leak it must be architecture.

hahaha. i like the idea that the difference between "architecture" and "Architecture" is "Does it leak?"

35 million Canadians consume as much as food as 163 million animals, sounds like Canada is the problem?

Canada is rarely the problem... but we do have lots of beavers to feed.

Haha, Bears > Beavers, problem solved?

And all people get out of that transaction is shit 'n cuddles.

put down the putine canada. save some for my dogs.

POUTINE! Cheese curds are sacred up here.

You've just reminded me! That's on my to do list for a midweek lunch!

Was that the part 2 apprenticeship position?

Here's your history... does this help?

I see, somehow they dont approve my thread, so sad :( Thank Citizen

Email the editors; they may have more info for you.

Gotcha, thanks!

Turn signals, seat belts, face masks, life jackets, sunscreen, etc. etc. etc. Shit, we've had the technology to prevent limb loss on a table saw (a very common construction injury) for decades and it STILL isn't required. If you found a country on rebellion and a lack of consideration of human life is this what you get?

I'm sure I'll jinx myself for saying this but . . . I've been fortunate and never had to raise my voice to a contractor or consultant. I've been in a few arguments that could have devolved into a shouting match but there is just something about my teddy bear personality combined with my 6'-3", 250 pound frame that seems to keep other people from getting uppity with me. :)

That is indeed a good combination, Chad.

I've literally threatened physical violence (twice) against the same contractor. Which is funny because they then hired me to design their new home. As much as I'm a white collar professional, I learned a lot growing up in a blue collar environment - sometimes the threat of violence can solve a lot.

I've walked out of a site meeting, it was oddly satisfying.

Sneaky is right. We need to make a list of everything with the remote possibility of harm and destroy it or outlaw it. Or if we could mandate everyone to stay inside, brilliant!

Brilliant is not a word I would use to describe anything about you, archi_stooge.

Brilliant is not a word I would use to describe ANYONE on this site. Face it, if we where really good at what we do we wouldn't have the time or inclination to be here.  We'd all be too busy with those fabled 'architecture groupies' ;)

Is brilliant code for "covered with stripper glitter"?

bowling, violence (or threat of) is never the answer. I won't get into into an argument with the GC (never with the trades) unless I know I am correct.

NS - is that normal stripper glitter or the Canadian stuff?

mostly the threat of violence is an outpour of frustration where words or logic don't work anymore...quite immature in my opinion.

Once the owner of the office I worked at banged his hand on the table really loud during a discussion/meeting with the client and started yelling (a powerful developer and builder in one, one of the biggest in my country), the entire office could hear it. He got his way for whatever was so important, the colour of a balustrade or something but never worked for that client again.

Chad, imperial size glitter is bigger.

There is a euphemism in there somewhere. . .

Glitter is regional, the Quebec glitter is extra sticky, where as the glitter in BC is made from Hemp. Nova Scotia glitter smells fishy, where as the Alberta glitter works the best :)

ironic rando since you yell the loudest with the least of value to say around here since jla and ricky made themselves scarce.

Alberta glitter is oily. not a fan.

I heard a nice COVID/glitter analogy: you are crafting at a table with 9 other moms (drag queens/kindergarteners/protest sign makers/whatever). One mom is using glitter. How many projects at the table have glitter on them?

^ tricked question donna. The real answer is all 9 PLUS every other project each of those moms will ever make. So, the real answer is an infinite number of projects will have glitter.

Rando - I don't disagree about a threat of violence being an outpour of frustration where words or logic don't work anymore

I think people tend to threaten violence a lot more and not have the ability or determination to back it up.

I've been lucky/ unlucky enough to have only been in six cases of physical violence in my life.  Each time it was justified however each instant will stay with me for the rest of my life.  

Oh and US glitter is the best.  'Murica!  

F--- glitter! We normally tape holiday cards we receive to the fridge/pantry door/whatever to be admired throughout the season ... but if it has glitter on it, it goes straight in the trash. Don't infect my house with that crap.

Are you bored, looking for a new victim to bully PettySneak?

Hey now Rando... this is a peaceful discussion about stripper glitter.

stripper glitter was a really good scene in blade runner

I know Non, sorry, no clue why SmearyPete is bullying me.

Shut up Rando - GLITTER or GTFO.

glitter all the way

Now I'm a bully. Need a safe space, rando?

Yes, please go away

Aww, rando.

Aaaargh! It was a nice 2 days or whatever, while it lasted. I'm not going to participate in any threads that get tainted by any iteration of Balkins anymore. Once he touches it I'm out. I used to think we had some responsibility to correct all his bs, for the poor innocents who come here asking newbie questions, but I think I'm underestimating the newbies and they'll figure him out for themselves in a post or two.

he's not always wrong, but, if i had an opportunity, i would vote him & his aliases off the island...no grudges, just tired of his pretend professional authority...i do have him/them on ignore for the moment

Who?

Balkins is "rcz1001" at the moment. He was 2 other characters the week before but those also got deleted and banned when they went anti-BLM again.

The fact that I haven't received an email from Balkins telling me he isn't rcz1001 is a little surprising. Maybe he's decided to only send me his anti-BLM rants.

"Who?" @eeayeeayo

Not too fabulous, now.  Don't make the rest of us look bad.

I make no promises.

Do you take custom orders?

I'd like one mask and one no promises, please.

Make sure to bedazzle some glitter in there too!

I do take custom order however the demand for my masks is so great that we're back ordered 3 years . Oh and all masks come with glitter.

Order an envelope full of glitter, get a free face mask!

glitter is an environmental contaminant

^small price to pay to be fabulous!

The glitter I use in my masks is as pure as the driven snow.

Back in the 90s and early 2000s I had a good credit union. Haven't tried since, although they fit better within my world view compared to the big bank I use now. Customer service across the board has tanked, which is ironic considering all of the stupid tools silicon valley has developed for it over the past 15 years.

Every interaction I've ever had with my credit union has been extremely pleasant.

What's the old saying - if you keep running into jerks look at what those interactions have n common . . .

I thought it was pretty obvious Chad... the thing they have in common is being credit union employees... lemme guess... you used to work at a credit union...

IMO ... yes and no. Yes, it is still a thing and some clients still want it, and some firms still push for it. No, in that I think it was largely a fad and there are far fewer numbers of projects getting registered. I was going to check recent numbers, but I'm not finding much, nor is the USGBC website working at the moment ... but here are some graphs using numbers current at the end of 2015 showing the sharp decline in new project registrations (source). 

We are beyond LEED at this point, some clients care to get their buildings certified, some don't. Most are carbon-neutral and use all kinds of passive strategies, but don't need a checklist to tell us that.

It depends where, and what kind of projects. LEED is mandated for some public projects in some locations. Conversely, in some states it has been specifically banned for public projects (certain materials and manufacturing associations have a lot to do with that). In some cities and states there is a set % funding incentive for achieving certain LEED certification levels on partially state-funded or city-funded projects - and clients care about LEED a lot when it's getting them 4% more state funding on a hundred-million dollar project. So if you're in a firm that does a lot of projects for which LEED is required, then obviously LEED is still a thing. And if you're not, then it might not be a thing for you.

Besides the recession, the switch to v4, and a general decrease in interest in LEED, there were some more factors in the big drop on the graph: it happens right at the time that USGBC changed some rules.

It's a chart of project registrations - not projects that ultimately got certified or even built. There was a period of time during which there were huge numbers of fake projects being registered. For a few years getting LEED-accredited required prior documented experience working on registered LEED projects. At that time LEED was a very popular credential, especially among foreign architects and companies trying to get an edge on doing business in the US - but it was difficult for them to satisfy that experience requirement to test. So naturally some enterprising entrepreneurs started registering big piles of imaginary projects, and then selling the opportunity to get "experience" working on LEED credits for those imaginary projects. They submitted the info for those credits so they'd be verified - but of course never build the projects. When the rules changed to no longer require LEED experience prior to testing, that whole industry collapsed and the number of projects getting registered decreased.

The rules also cracked down on what could be registered and certified as a building. Prior to that some people were doing things like splitting the project into many separately-registered pieces, in order to qualify for more funding incentives and such. Some projects were even registering their job trailers as independent LEED projects (and some job trailers did ultimately get LEED certified!) When rules were added to prevent those "projects", the number of projects registered dropped some more.

5839, that's fascinating ... thanks. 

Because I'm curious and USGBC's site is back online, I did my own rough number graphing. I looked at all projects in the US (no filtering for commercial or residential or rating system) and charted the number of project registrations and certifications by year for as many years as usgbc.org/projects had data. Registrations follows the same steep up and down peaking at 2009 as above, but additional peaks at 2013 and 2016 (this I'm sure was from sun-setting v2009 in 2016). For some reason it wasn't showing any project registrations prior to 2006.

Certifications is more reflective of which projects actually reach the finish line though, and it has remained more steady. It is showing a decline in 2019 from 2018. 2020's numbers aren't complete obviously, so that sharp down at the end could be ignored.

I did another pass adding just the commercial projects (no LEED Homes, Multifamily, Neighborhood Development, etc.) and taking off the 2020 numbers...

The big spike in 2016 was because of the sunset of LEED 2009. If you registered your project by October 31 it could still be certified in version 2009, regardless of completion date, so they got a huge onslaught of projects that wanted to keep that option open. Some of our institutional clients raced to register every possible project that they were even remotely imagining doing someday. The 2013 spike was because that's when v4 was first rolled out, and it came with an announcement of the impending demise of LEED 2009. At the time they didn't say when exactly it would sunset but it was anticipated to be much sooner than it ended up happening. This was also around the time that the rule changes I mentioned above happened - this peak has the height of the fake projects trend in it, and the orange spike below it has the certified job trailers and school bus garages. The little peak in 2008 was because of the v2.2 sunset. Ever since v4 rolled out there has been a serious bottleneck in getting v4 projects certified - the wait even now is still much longer than was typical for the previous versions - so even if the registrations completely flatline there will probably still be a pretty good orange curve for years to come.

I’m not so sure about you’re Orange curve for years to come comment. Pretty safe to say that the vast majority of registrations in 2016 were for v2009. Those registrations have a certification deadline of June 30, 2021. So all the v4 projects in 2017-now will be there for the orange line, but a lot of the backlog of registrations from 2016 will fall off a cliff next year. It has little to do with how long it takes to get certified under v4.

If it follows the pattern of past phase-outs they'll likely extend the June 2021 deadline by something between 4 and 12 months, but yes all the 2009 projects should either be gone by 2022 at the latest - though some will not make that deadline and will then convert to v4 projects. It's just that the 2009 projects have been moving along at their usual steady plod this whole time, while the v4 queue has been open since 2014 and alternating between slow and stalled ever since.  If nobody ever finished another LEED v4 project after today, I think it would still take them 5+ years to catch up. Time will tell.

Flatten the curve!

Is that 28 degrees Canadian? =o] If so, time for culottes and flip-flops!

sometimes I forget we're currated product for sale at sites like these, thanks for reminding me

if employers are having that hard of a time finding people to work during the pandemic, that's a good sign right?

everything here is advertorial, including (y)our contributions to discussions, it is all used to generate traffic, bait for clicks, sell ads and lure in advertisers. since the platform is free to use aren't we supposed to be the product or something?

Firms have to pay to be featured or post job listings here, so yes. It's advertising all the way down.

I don't begrudge anyone their revenue, but having the News section post marketing ad copy straight from the firm seems a bit off to me. I don't think any amount of money would elevate my help-wanted ad in the NY Times to the front page...

To clarify a bit, I don't have anything against Archinect making their money from my traffic. I'm not paying to use the site, so I expect to see advertisements and if they can find a way to be creative and drive more traffic to certain jobs and get firms and companies to pay more for it, good for them. I do like knowing whether content has been sponsored ... especially in a "news" context. I'd think Archinect would want the same which is why I find it odd that they don't already have it in there ... unless they aren't sponsored which seems questionable to me. Which leads to my questions: 1) Are the advertorials for job postings for specific companies is sponsored content or not? 2) If not, how does the editorial team decide which jobs and firms to highlight? I'm not trying to make a larger statement about anything here ... I'm just asking for some transparency.

++ EA.

EA - if an article on Archinect is sponsored, it's always indicated clearly that it's sponsored. We are, and have always been, completely transparent about that. Regarding last week's articles about specific jobs, that was an editorial decision by the author and it was inconsistent with our editorial approach. When we do report about job ads they are newsworthy opportunities.

Thanks for the reply. So the (weekly) features that Alexander Walter writes showcasing multiple firms with open positions is simply editorial ... no paid sponsorship from any of the firms (aside of course having open positions on the website which they've paid for). How does Alexander (or the editorial team at large) determine which firms/jobs to feature?

https://archinect.com/news/article/150208025/new-featured-job-opportunities-from-david-baker-architects-workshop-apd-sachs-lindores-studio-mm-and-blaze-makoid-architecture

Perhaps another way of asking the question ... what does the editorial team see as newsworthy in these firms/jobs? As noted in the article above they "stand out with impressive work and current job opportunities," but that could describe nearly all employers posting job opportunities on the site depending on how you determine "impressive work."

Every day (for about the last 15 years) we highlight a selected employer of the day that we showcase across our social media channels. And every week, for about the last 10 years, we've rounded up those EOTD's in our news. It's curation.

This still doesn't really address my question of how those employers being showcased are being chosen from the available pool of employers posting opportunities to the site.

Your curiosity is respectable, but there's not enough time, or space in this comment box, to explain our editorial inner-workings, nor is that a discussion that we would have in a public forum. Every employer/firm that we highlight does something worthy of being profiled, and that list of criteria is long including their work/projects, location, staff makeup, research work, etc...........

Fair enough. Thanks for entertaining my curiosity.

But by posting such highlights don't you also open the door to possible harsh criticism of the firm, as with Marc Fornes/TheVeryMany's highlighted article? Under regular job postings such commenting is not possible.

Not really any more than they would get from posting them to their social media accounts anyway.

yes but then those comments are not connected to the archinect brand.

If I see archinect highlight a job posting on twitter and I reply “@archinect this firm promotes a toxic working environment, shame on you for promoting it or taking their money” or something like that ... how is that not connected to the brand?

No, it's not a comment on the archinect hosted website, but it's definitely connected to their brand. Probably worse for them there than it would be on here anyway.

true, that's also connected to their brand but differently, out of their reach in some way as it is on a different platform. that they don't control.

how is it operating? do they clean all of the holds between users?

Cleaning the holds is not really feasible, but they mandate the use of a liquid chalk that is 95% sanitizer... plus require you sanitize hands between each area and wear a mask at all times. I was very manageable to climb and they limit the total pop to 50 and you schedule in a 2hr session. I climb between 9-11pm so the crowd is already thin at those times pre C19.

Out of curiosity I googled liquid chalk and sanitizer. TL;DR wash your hand extra thoroughly and don't touch your face. But man, I miss climbing. Need to get our asses out, maybe this weekend we'll head to the quarry.

Sneaky, I think the rule in my gym is IF you are to use any chalk, it should be the liquid type. Conveniently, my gym also runs a distillery so making the product in-house is easy. I rarely use chalk anyways but this liquid stuff works pretty good. I'm going to try and ramp up my gym days to thrice weekly like it was in my prime... eugh, like 12y ago.

Good rule; the amount of dust in gyms due to standard chalk has GOT to be unhealthy. We haven't been to a gym in years because they're so ungodly expensive.

My gym opened a few weeks ago, with similar restrictions (low capacity, by-appointment only). I haven't been yet. Man I miss it.

it reminds my of children's show intro music... but in a good way.

I get ESPN vibes but that's funny because I don't like ESPN.

This is towards the end of the third episode when Hiro-chan battles the evil kawaii textbooks in the courtroom on Mars.

If you like that you might like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthwave

Retrowave is my redlining soundtrack.

i don't know if i'd really call that synthwave. Maybe if it had a baby with early Rush and the aforementioned ESPN intro.

Yeah it's not synthwave, just similar energy.

John Tesh

Same vibes, I think. 

John Tesh has a beautiful speaking voice.

If Todd Terje is too "synthy" for you, there's always LTE.