Cliffs notes version?

Two days ago I measured a house for the first time in over two months. Felt good to get out. And good to get back.

I can confirm that my work boots and hat still fit... and that I've tracked fresh construction dirt into my house earlier today. Felt good to get back onto site.

my office opened. we don't get to use the coffee pot because it's a vector of transmission. i went back home.

My office opens Monday - there had damn well better be coffee.

I have had one site visit during the quarantine. To a sewage treatment plant. No, the cloth mask didn't help. Don't you wish you had my exciting life?

I saw that too this morning in r/architecture.

so what are your solutions... let's hear em

.

To be fair Ken's firm is rather woke so I'm sure he's already solved all those issues.

"LAB is a multidisciplinary design firm, with the vision to respond to shifting paradigms of client dynamics and consumer demands by leveraging the inherently divergent areas of architectural, graphic and product designs in order to achieve three goals; create environments that enhance the end user experience, build on brand loyalty and increase profitability."

That's a lot of archspeak. 

meh...i've read worse, but it's on point.

.

well... here you go... https://archinect.com/news/article/150200375/aia-noma-and-other-organizations-issue-statements-of-solidarity-with-black-community... back to flooding...

Yeah, I'm guessing the blowback from the first idiotic press release had nothing to do with the subsequent release...?

I find it a bit creepy, the old white dude sneaking up on minority businesses forcing his pro-boner into it.

Attempts at humor?

just an astute observation?

Astute? Which part?

Think you know deep down I'm right, that's why you got my post hidden. To be that narcissistic on that moral high horse with two goody shoes to write which specific minority businesses got offered pro-bono services is so degrading, stigmatising and diminishing to those people...and to subsequently use that to advertise yourself as this architect-saint is so transparent.

Or, and hear me out on this, ken MIGHT not have the same diseased bullshit running through his brain as you do.

random is projecting sooooooo hard, I bet he can't hide the wood.

Here, this is for you

I think my favorite part of all this, is that my "wokeness" is questioned, I demonstrate that I put my efforts where my mouth is, and this asshat questions my motivation. classic. Please elucidate what exactly am I gaining from helping communities such as African American, Somali American, Mexican American, Guamanian Americans, South Asian Americans...what is that I'm gaining, as a practicing architect, interested in making sure that primarily white contractors and code treat these communities of small businesses fairly? You mean, more work? Really? Is that your beef? That I might get more work? Listen, I'm sorry that you're that insipid and facile that you're not capable, but do me a favor cuck, fuck off.

I'm not projecting, I just see through you and your (probably even well meant) (reverse) racism...and call you out for it. You don't think it is stigmatising (to say the least) to publish on the internet that you do pro-bono work for certain minority-owned businesses? It is kind of like publishing the names of the people that get help at the food bank to make you as the volunteer look good. But hey, even poor kids can be just as bright as white kids, right?

So Ken Robert and b3tadine[suturess] are the same person. Good to know.

It's also good to know that randomised is not only a racist but a perv.  

"You mean, more work? Really? Is that your beef? That I might get more work?"

No I don't care you get more work or not, but I think it's stigmatising to broadcast out in the open which certain specific minority-owned businesses can't afford to pay for your services...but good for you.

So Chad, why exactly am I a perv and a racist? Please do enlighten me!

Listen you fucking muppet, reverse racism is the whistle goto for dirty magakkklan use to try to pick a fight, so listen cuck fetishist; I aint your crying libtard. Now, run along, punk.

Only in a rando world would it be seen as stigmatizing to do work for first time minority owned businesses, to ensure that small businesses have an architect with an ethical spine that has their back. You must be a certain kind morally bankrupt fuck, to think what I'm doing is horrible. You played yourself. Well done. Muppet.

Providing work pro-bono doesn't always mean the client couldn't pay for it. Sometimes the firm offering the services simply thinks that the client could put that money toward something else.

I think b3t / Ken as summed up the reasons Rando is racist. As for why he's a perve - well Rando did brink a rape and dick reference into his racist comment.

I know an architect who designs churches pro-bono and considers that their form of tithing.

They must do some small church projects or make a lot of money. ;)

One church at a time, and the PSF cost is generally quite low.

EA, you're exactly correct.

b3tadine[sutures] 

"Listen you fucking muppet, reverse racism is the whistle goto for dirty magakkklan use to try to pick a fight, so listen cuck fetishist; I aint your crying libtard. Now, run along, punk." 

It's apparently the whistle that sets you off b3ta, so it must resonate with you somehow. Deep down there all those apparent good intentions are just masquerading your assumed superiority, and now all you can do is swear and foam at the mouth. And you are supposed to be a moderator here, it's hysterical. 

"Only in a rando world would it be seen as stigmatizing to do work for first time minority owned businesses, to ensure that small businesses have an architect with an ethical spine that has their back. You must be a certain kind morally bankrupt fuck, to think what I'm doing is horrible. You played yourself. Well done. Muppet." 

It is stigmatising to brag about your pro-bono efforts and connect it to specific individuals of supposed minority background. It is also so typical that it's exactly that post that you put out there under your real name, need to make sure everybody knows about Saint Ken the reverse racist of lower expectations. And to be clear, I don't necessarily think what you do is horrible, I'm sure you're a skilled and talented architect, but your selection criteria seem racist to me and the way you publish those businesses online is demeaning and degrading, it doesn't have to be that specific to rub off on you, but you choose otherwise. Did you check their books when offering your services for free or did you just offer them based on the amount of pigment in their skin, are they black enough for you? 

"Providing work pro-bono doesn't always mean the client couldn't pay for it. Sometimes the firm offering the services simply thinks that the client could put that money toward something else." 

Very true EA, but it is stigmatising in my opinion to subsequently publish those specific businesses online and let everybody know they didn't or couldn't pay for it and the old white guy had to come in again and do the work for free to make himself feel superior. It is disgusting in my opinion, but maybe that's just me. In some cultures it is even considered offensive and demeaning to not be allowed or able to pay for something you've received for free. 

"I think b3t / Ken as summed up the reasons Rando is racist. As for why he's a perve - well Rando did brink a rape and dick reference into his racist comment." 

No he didn't Chad. He has no arguments and is foaming at the mouth. Tell me in your own words why I would be a racist. It's not me being the perv, I'm just the observant messenger in this case with a vivid imagination, sure I'll give you that. Maybe b3ta has a thing for minority men or women that he targets certain businesses specifically, based on the amount of pigment in the skin of the owners, I don't know. I just find it beyond coincidental, but maybe it's just so he can brag about all that charity work for all these minority businesses to put them down and make himself the old white and male benefactor, just like a white middle class college girl going to volunteer in a orphanage in Ghana to fill her instagram feed and coming back home sporting dreadlocks or cornrows considering herself woke.

^fuckkking magakkklan

You put your cornrows too tight b3ta...

...

Nice! I love this! Minority business owners come to me for help, and I'm Joe Biden, I'll take it.

But again, dutchie.

*You mean, she'll have to take it...

I get it dutcheastindia, you'd rather have whites pay lip service to issues, rather than then actually doing something about issues. I'm not looking for awards, or have a crown placed on my head. I'm not a saint, I've made mistakes, but I have no problem talking about the ways I've helped, as a pathway for others that throw their hands on the air wondering what they can do.

That's right dutcheastindia, people coming to me, asking for help is the same as unwanted touch, the same way that the Dutch family helping hide Anne Frank, is the same as you collaborating with neo-nazis in your country today.

You must feel so powerful and superior b3ta with all those minority business owners coming to you, old white dude, for help...do you make them take the knee first or do you usually work that out later? You with your silly Nazi-references, clearly struggling aren't you, dangling and hanging on there by a mere thread. Maybe eat something first, a bag of d. or something and get the blood pumping and try again later. Good luck, looking forward to continue this exchange.

Did I miss the part where suddenly we all know each others race?

And that it matters?

Ransomised, you're really good at low hanging fruit, but be careful, the ones on the ground are loved by yellow-jackets. Don't get stung due to your own ignorance.

yellow jackets? you mean like wasps, white anglo-saxon protestants...such as b3ta? i'm not afraid of those, they are harmless, all buzz and easily trapped and neutralised if you know what you're doing.

0_o

https://www.corfugids.nl/media/kunena/attachments/72/1zqvl8k.jpg

Lemme fix that for ya.

America

Was hoping to see a big failed equivalent of this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shawinigan_Handshake.

am actually quite impressed T'rump could hold that big ol' bible with his small tiny hands

Rando, gota have priorities.

guess so, btw found you on reddit:

Nice one, but I don't have an active reddit profile.

Wait, there's more of you Canadians out there?

sounds like he had to tear gas a bunch of peaceful protestors and church laymen to get the picture as well

As an American I too am confused about what's going on. The small handed cheeto we have in the presidential office is nitwitt of epic proportions.

I don't get it either. We elected a TV personality to the oval office. He likes to tweet and is friends with the Russians and Putin is offering advice.

The conservatives are busy making memes. They say the murder of Floyd was a staged production funded by George Soros. Then they lecture everybody on how stupid they are for believing anything else.

I haven't seen anyone actually condoning violence except the people who think its funny that people are mowing down protesters with cars.

And the president of course.

I keep seeing posts about piles of bricks with no construction. The bricks are sitting on a sidewalk made of ... brick. The sidewalk has large, dirty patches where the walk has settled over the years. The bricks match the sidewalk. Sometimes a pile of bricks is just a pile of bricks.

That being said, anarchofascists seem to be out in larger numbers than usual sneaking around the backside of protests, smashing windows and setting off fireworks and firecrackers. Opportunistic anti-establishment white people who see the protests as convenient cover for their hate, I think.

I wish someone would throw a rock at the president. What a d-bag.

When a society is showing such hurt, such confusion, it time for the moms and grandmas to take over. Make some tea, sit down and talk. MAD. Mothers against destruction (of any kind).

"democratically elected president'

You misspelled "fraudulently purchased presidency"

Even my most conservative friends are not sure what Chump is up to and can't stand by his obnoxious behavior.

What are police for? Protecting people? Protecting property? 

Why are the police hurting people so that property can be protected? Kneel on a mans neck, shoot people with rubber bullets, mace and pepper spray them. For what? Some property?

These priorities suck.

Insurance covers the cost of damage to property anyways. Not that that makes it ok, but it's hardly the end of the world.

Not much architecting get done in my office today. This truly sucks.

tintt, I have a good friend who is a life-long Republican. We rarely agree on politics. Lately he calls me up and is more critical of Trump than I am.

A guy I went to high school with who is a hardcore conservative called me the other night and we talked for two hours. He told he didn't really believe all that crap and wasn't sure why he said and did the things he did but he didn't know how to stop. Similar thing happened yesterday with a conservative friend from college. Both macho guys, work in the trades.

Passion has always been a good motivator. Anger isn't a primary emotion. Anger is caused by an underlying emotion. If you look at the underlying emotions for the anger on the political spectrum, I wager most folks would start to lean more sympathetically towards one end of the spectrum. Not you, of course, x-lax, but reasonable, sympathetic, and considerate folks with an ability to think critically and not insulate themselves against hard truths with whataboutism, both-sidesism, and head-in-the-sandism.

interesting and convenient choice of words, factually defensible but pitched to a whistle for those who like to hear it. you pretend to care, you provide evidence -whether real or not- that supports you as some sort of credible source, but you aren't. you're at best ignorant and something truly reprehensible at worst.

I have seen many many people supporting the looting and vandalism

"many people." sounds familiar.

jlaxlax bullshit you have- the only things you've seen today are mediated through a screen. join those of us on the streets, protesting peacefully, or acknowledge you're sitting back comfortably offering useless opinions from your armchair.

you think people (not necessarily even the people being hurt right now, just PEOPLE) wouldn't give up everything if it meant they were heard, valued, and recognized? Property is just stuff. It's worthless without the freedom to enjoy it. But the cops are using the protection of STUFF to send the people a message. Get. The fuck. In line. Or get a knee on your neck.

what you have seen is worthless, especially if you've "seen" it in your mind's eye. You're tied down in a cave, looking at a shadow, and you think you know what you're talking about. How about listening?

your outrage is directed towards the destruction of property instead of that of yet another black person at the hands of the police (hint: it shows where your priorities are)

While it is possible to be for the protesters and against the looting and property destruction I do think that x-jla has his/her priorities backward. I personally am angry that a group of people have been treated so poorly for so long that they simply explode with anger and violence because nothing else has worked. That's a huge amount of frustration. That being said I would still defend my property, family, and friends from someone looking to cause violence and destruction regardless of their history of being oppressed.

i'm not defending any of the things you mention- i'm choosing to call out what i see as the bigger problem, which is police violence. you've spent 5% of your words on this thread "sympathizing" with peaceful protestors who are concerned with violence against people, with the remaining 95% directed towards the destruction of property. one is replaceable, the other is not.

"Defending this is Imo the epitome of racism. Racism of low expectations." - x-jla

This statement is, at best, willfully ignorant.

After a day's worth of replies, I feel both equally informed and confused.

Motherfucker, cities have been in shambles for decades. You only choose to give a fuck when you can use it to hammer your narrative while using the convenient cover of seeming sympathetic. Get the fuck out of here with your bullshit.

again, as someone who is actually in this, living in a city and protesting, cities are not "in shambles;" there is some unease and a little chaos but the overwhelming majority of what is happening is peaceful protest, and it is quite powerful. you are falling into the trap of the media, which you constantly bemoan, by over-emphasizing the looting and turning attention away from the real underlying problem

square, cities are in shambles, no matter how pretty they look, how clean they are, and how peaceful they seem. THAT is the problem. When everything seems normal, it's only good for a certain demographic. The rest? Well, cities are in shambles.

i like the term conflict, but i see you

So is drums please a sock puppet of x-lax or someone else?

Always with the logical fallacies, x-lax. Never an honest intention, never a genuine debate. Always tricks, misdirection, and deceit.

i thought no one seriously used "i don't see race" anymore... but those who choose to ignore difference, and "hold everyone to the same standard," whatever the hell that means, choose to ignore the uneven history that different groups of people have experienced.

If I've learned one thing in the past week or so it's that there are a lot of people who are uncomfortable about George Floyd's death, racism, police brutality and aggression, and systemic injustices toward people of color. In their discomfort there are probably two main groups of people at the moment: 

1. Those who find a way to channel that discomfort into something that might help correct those issues; protesting, educating themselves, taking a moment to see the issue from someone else's viewpoint, reaching out to their community, reflecting on their own prejudices or inherent biases, donating to helpful causes to correct injustices, engaging in positive listening and dialogue, etc. 
2. Those who can't (or won't) face the things making them uncomfortable directly, so they attempt to distract themselves from their discomfort by complaining about the destruction of property or violence, or how all lives matter. 

This, of course, isn't to say that everyone fits neatly into those camps. But it probably covers about 90-95% of the people I've seen in my own social circles. 

If you think you might be in the second group. My advice is to simply not say anything for a while. Be uncomfortable with your thoughts and then try to be empathetic to what it might be like to be a person of color in this country. I'm not saying you have to change or anything like that. But there is a time to simply sit down and shut up. This might be one of those times.

x-jla, nobody says that's acceptable. You got some fog there. Maybe go outside in the breeze so you can clear it up. Meanwhile, how do you feel about a president who tear gasses peaceful protestors to clear a path for an awkward photo shoot in front of a church who he had no relationship with?

i second EA- in other words, you can be vocal in your support of black lives, the condemnation police violence, and the cheering of peaceful protesters, or by taking a back seat.. but if your instinct is to spend the majority of your breath condemning looting, best to shut up for a bit.

and in the end, it's black people and their communities who will suffer the worst consequences of these protests, that's the issue x-jla is trying to raise and being downvoted for...confusing times indeed.

Yeah, randomised; absolutely. You and x-lax are well known champions of black people and their communities, which is why it's so surprising that nobody believes you. The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

While you're probably correct rando, it doesn't have to be that way. The majority of protests that I've seen have been peaceful with very little violence and destruction of property (nothing that couldn't be cleaned up in a day). Most of the times where there has been more property damage, rioting, looting, and violence has been because of (not in spite of) heavy-handed police tactics. Those areas where the police have stayed back a bit and watched have, for the most part, stayed peaceful.

I was waiting for someone to predictably turn this back to the virus. Probably also belongs in the second group.

x - simply separate the protestors from the looters and your confusion will go away. They are not the same groups. We have peaceful protests let by a school board member here. Then other groups come in for the looting and rioting. And if cops and politicians are instigating violence against peaceful protestors exercising their 1st amendment, isn't that WRONG?

SQUIRREL !

Last night in Oakland the cops started pepper spraying the protesters (who were remnants of a peaceful march of thousands led by students) 20-30 minutes before curfew, and moments after they mass arrested dozens. Why? Because they could. It's easier to catch tuna if you don't give a fuck about dolphins, it's easier to farm if you don't give a fuck about bees, and it's easier to quell riots if you don't give a fuck about protesters' rights.

I don't agree that that's a nuanced opinion, but rather basic. There are lots of colors out there and shades of gray besides black and white (not talking about people here). That's what this is about. That there is more than your perspective. 

I understand that. So arrest the looters and rioters. Or are you saying the protestors should stop protesting because of it?

jla, read again what I wrote about where violence and destruction has happened and about how those are usually the areas using heavy-handed police tactics. Think about what happened in Minneapolis on May 25th. 

BTW, isn't it time you change your name back to jla-x if you're not really following the charge you gave yourself when you changed to x-jla?

Then maybe it's time to step outside of your cool old guy FB bubble.

"Maybe I just know too many idiots." You probably do. Doesn't mean you have to become one of them.

I also don't think you've seen any "idiots" here making excuses for wanton destruction. If you want to call it out over on FB, be my guest.

"Yeah, randomised; absolutely. You and x-lax are well known champions of black people and their communities, which is why it's so surprising that nobody believes you. The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

What's there to believe? It doesn't matter if the cause is justified or not, (it is, just to be clear) when the smoke and tear gas clears it's the black communities that will have suffered the most, yet again and still...

Antifa is a label made up by pundits and used by agitators on the right to scapegoat the left. Anarchists love destruction, looters love free shit, and right-wing provocateurs suddenly have a great smokescreen.

"outside influencers with agendas are agitating things" 

Good self-reflection there jla. Glad you took my advice.

"Proto, it's true" - x-jla

It is clear you do not understand what racism is fundamentally. You should spend some time learning beyond yourself. Spewing your half-pondered thoughts here is wasted time, despite your earnestness.

AND THREAD CENTRAL IS NOT THE THREAD FOR THIS PARTICULAR THEME

Why would numerous individuals with a distinct lack of affiliation with each other go about naming themselves? It leaves that label open for theft by other unaffiliated individuals that are not against fascism. It does provide a pretty, pretty label for people looking for easy answers that don't require a mirror, though.

It's almost like people are desperate to declare who the looters are so it shuts down the discussion of who they actually are, because it might mean they are sympathetic to the looters as anarchists and welcome the distraction.

Language evolves when x-lax says it evolves. Until then, it's dictionary.com suppositories for everyone.

I don't presume to know the entirety of the definition of racism, I'm not that full of myself.

Try nuance.

well... this escalated. Also, squirrel!

Sorry to be so blunt but why is everybody putting their knee into x-jla's neck for this? I really don't get it. When it is about gender or sexism issues the men apparently need to shut up and listen, when it is about racism all the white folks here are teaming up against one of the few black guys on here that dares to voice his concerns about the effect this all will have on black communities.

Rando, ignoring the #toosoon part of you comment, it's not about silencing other opinions. It's that many try to pin both sides of the issue against each other as if they are of equal importance. Sudden property damage is not the same as persistent loss of life/abuse/racism by authorities. To suggest that the damages caused by a few should equal or outweigh the cause of the protest is insulting to the real problem. A similar line of thought can be made to your recent gender spat. As the owner of a very white and very privileged 5th appendage, I want to understand as much as I can but I know I'll never come close to knowing.

It is not about silencing them but discrediting them as being not genuine or something, why someone is attacked for stating to be supporting the cause 100%, in a peaceful way, and be totally against the riots/looting/violence? Nobody is suggesting here that material damages should be equated to the loss of life. It's a straw man argument based on other political views on different issues. 

 Here by the way the peaceful protest in Amsterdam this Monday in memory of George Floyd and in support of Black Lives Matter, the woman in black (without mask!) in the last picture is our mayor:

Then I guess I don't understand your point other than to say that there is a big difference between supporting a movement and supporting but with a #whitelivesmatter footnote. With that said, I expect the scheduled protest this friday in my city will resemble closely to the pics you posted... Mayor included. However, we still have a strong social distancing mandate... so peaceful but 2-canadian meters away.

Here's how a bunch of rich white dudes speak about everyday police treatment of minorities. 1993 - VS

My point is that everybody is attacking x-jla because he voiced his opinion being in support of the cause of Black Lives Matter and to also peacefully protest the murder of George Floyd but still is against the riots, the looting and the violence...especially since that effects the black communities harder than anywhere else. The black community not only has to suffer the consequences of racism but also the consequences of the protests against racism. It is that hypocrisy on here, that pack mentality against one single person that I try to address, always rooting for the underdog, but apparently not very successfully ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

The irony of skin colour is also not lost on me here; a group of nearly all white-privileged archinectors going after one of the few black people on here debating the topic of racism. This would so not happen in real life in person and everybody knows it... 

 And about the pictures, we also have a strong 1.5m social distancing mandate (in theory), but it was impossible to uphold in practise as 10x the estimated amount of people actually showed up.

Wrong again dutcheastindia, whites have been going against black magas, and black libertarians all the time. BTW, when are you going to deal with your past transgressions? The original slavers.

But when you go at one single black libertarian individual, it is almost like a freaking white policor anarchofascist lynchmob, it is just plain ass ugly and you know it. Maybe no coincidence that George Floyd got killed in your city, with a white Democrat mayor you probably put into office, happy now asshole. And maybe cheer some more for the death of Albert Speer Jr.

Okay dutcheastindia, actually, I voted for Nekima Levy-Pounds, but try again. Funny how you're more concerned about one black libertarian, and not the problem with system racism, caused by, and created by whites. You remind of NSM that collaborated with Nazis that my grandmother told me about. How goes that reconciliation with your Nazi past, and your own guilt for sending Jews to camps?

critique is not the same as "putting a knee" one someone's neck- i find the use of that metaphor disgusting, but i'll try to have some patience since you aren't american. my point is to call out that saying in one sentence "i support the protestors" and then spending the other 99 sentences only talking about looting is in fact not showing support for the protestors, because the focus becomes on a minority issue that is often used by white opponents as a dog whistle and distraction. it's also ridiculous to assume that one person speaks for a whole community, just as i don't speak for any one whole community. i HAVE been out, listening to black leaders in my community, and the overwhelming consensus is what i am echoing here- it is their voice i am attempting to share, not mine.

this is one of my biggest issues with jla-x- they never speak to real, material issues on the ground. it's always some speculation that you would find via a screen, not in real life. the same happened with the covid shit. i've been in nyc for both of these events and only ever try to echo what is ACTUALLY happening here, not being an armchair pundit.

So, kudos for you b3ta on the voting, gold star for you or sticker, whatever they hand out to kids for potty training these days. I'm concerned by system racism, obviously, and support BLM and am appalled by the murder of George Floyd and all other cases of racial violence...but I am also appalled by the systemic racism of people like you, creating that racism of low expectations for minorities, women or people of colour, so there's that. And I don't have a Nazi past or feel Nazi guilt, nice try with that Godwin. No real arguments left b3ta, cornrows still too tight up there, blocking the flow of oxygen to the brain? So I win with your stupid Godwin, hahaha...l-o-s-e-r, eat a bag!

You played yourself when you cried "reverse racism" you don't care about black lives. So try again slaver.

it's so easy (and lazy) to devolve into name-calling, on both sides. The point isn't to morally equate racists and anti-racists (or the complacent), but to humanize the person and people you are disagreeing with so that you can find common ground. Pointing out someone's fictitious cornrows or calling someone a slaver doesn't solve anything, and I hope you'll see that it puts you even farther apart.

+1 archanonymous. Mods could (and probably should) hide all these replies starting with randomised's comment about putting knees on jla-x's neck. It was spirited but relatively tame, considering everything going on at the moment, up until that point.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Libertarians are what Republicans and right-wingers call themselves when they're unwilling to own the baggage they travel with.

strongly disagree on the intrinsically connected part- that's what makes libertarianism an ideology (note i have my own as well), not a supposed broad truth like is often claimed. free speech has absolutely nothing to do with the right to property; the former is completely inclusionary, while the latter is exclusionary ($$$) for too many reasons to list on this thread. not to mention the two ideas aren't mutually exclusive.

I have yet to meet a principled Libertarian. The most famous "Libertarians" in the US in recent memory have all, quite famously, failed to stand behind their vaunted principles when the time came for them to leave the right side of the political spectrum unless it was politically expedient and had no consequences for them. As soon as they were met with hard choices, they flaked. See: Politicians from the Paul family, Jeff Bezos, Clint Eastwood, Brothers Koch, Rupert Murdoch, Gary Johnson, etc etc etc.

i find that a bizarre solution to our problems, but this must be the crux of our disagreements. i believe rampant individualism has been the core of our problems for the past 40 years, and that we are actually in need of the opposite: a compassionate understanding of the collective

Individualism makes it easy. See also: Divide and Conquer.

the acquisition of property requires free speech, free speech does not require the acquisition of property.

' “Dare to be different” was something we taught kids back in the 80s-90s....now we teach them group think. '

x-lax: the desire to be the know-it-all old curmudgeon sitting around looking for things to blame "kids these days" for, ignorant of the reality: that his unique special intelligence is the sum total of millions of worthless, fortune cookie-sized soundbites all cobbled together into a worldview that is set in stone. 

https://archinect.com/forum/thread/150143564/politics-central

Even Chad Miller on here openly wishes for a brick being thrown at your president, and it is perfectly socially safe to say so, the comment is not hidden or removed, people don't even bother with it...it has become normal to wish for bricks being thrown at people, fascism has been normalised apparently. Now Chad wouldn't dare to throw the brick himself of course but that's another matter.

"the rancher who was killed by the feds a couple years back or something like that" 

Just to clarify, are you referring to the rancher that participated in an armed takeover and occupation of a national wildlife refuge, was actively resisting and evading arrest while telling officers to stand down or put a bullet in him, and repeatedly shouted, "You're going to have to shoot me," to the officers (the main one confronting him was holding a taser, btw) and was reaching for the loaded semi-automatic weapon in his jacket ... that rancher?

Happy to discuss that situation with you in terms of the law-enforcement response compared to the current situation regarding George Floyd it if would be helpful for you to understand the differences ... but not in TC. Start a new thread or continue in Politics Central. 

If everybody supports the same thing, why is this so hard?

400 years? Let me ask you, if I kept pushing you to the ground, for 400 days, and kicked you in the ankle, how long would you put up with it, lax?

B3ta the protests are supposed to be about peace not about getting back at people. I flagged the comment for that reason.

x-lax, if you argued common sense hell would start selling icy pops.

Your comment is fueling hate which is exactly what this not about.

Forrest.

Don't make me flag you for using that dumb word.

Ken / b3tadine[sutures] - does the firm you work for know you spend this much time here saying naughty words? ;)

Chad, stop playing cutsey maybe-I'll-dox-you-maybe-I-won't.

I'm not playing. Ken already outed himself during a conversation with x-jla. I was just ribbing the guy. I sincerely apologize if this was interpenetrated in a malicious way. Just to be clear, I would never 'snitch' on a user here to anyone other than reporting spam to the big green head. Not that it would matter for Ken, I know the firm he works with - they wouldn't care.

I think the more polite thing moving forward might be to respond to a user's username without linking it to the user's real name every time. Especially when there was not express intent to link the two, instead most likely a mistake caused by passionate debate. Unless you're gonna start calling other posters by slash names every time.

Although this is a good example of why real names should NEVER be required on the forums.

Sneaky makes some good points, but to be fair, Ken's pseudonym has never really been a secret for anyone that looks hard enough. And he's fine saying the many of the same things under his real name on the podcast for example.

/\ That. Also if a user feels the need to say only certain things with certain usernames maybe they should think about if they should be saying it. I'm not against anonymous profiles or multiple usernames - I think they are needed in many circumstances. A select few people just use them to be a cowardly jerk. Ken is NOT one of those people and B3 just has a 'unique' writing style. 8-)

I don't agree with this: "Also if a user feels the need to say only certain things with certain usernames maybe they should think about if they should be saying it."

You qualified it further, but unless it's a troll or a useless sock puppet, the need for anonymity in the US in 2020 is clear to me.

Yes I'm referring to a troll or sock puppet. If you're worried about repercussions from you employer for talking about pay scales, hours, ect I'm all for anonymous and / or multiple accounts.

Chad, I didn't take it personally, but there are many firms that talk pro-bono, and contractors that talk smack about being minority owned, or woman owned businesses, but it's just for show. Not a real demonstrated organization looking for partnerships with real value. I'm always happy to talk about the work I've done, it's been some of the most valuable experiences in my career. I do take great offense, massive it seems, that I don't value the people I've worked with, or that I'm a predator. Nearly all of my clients have either had to run crowd funding campaigns, or get low interest loans from the city, so the idea that there's a lot shame on their part, because I did the work pro-bono is rather infuriating and demeaning. I've never been so proud that I never discuss growing up with some measure of public assistance.

I'm not sure if anyone here knows where I work, it's changed so much in the past year, and the firm I own is for my side projects.

Actually, I'm pretty low key in public, going off in a forum provides a measure of a relief valve. I'm fact so much so, I'm still not sure how to go to the protests without becoming a rage filled idiot.

b3ta, I only responded to how it was represented here. That ridiculous archispeak of LAB that was mentioned by Chad that made you publish that whole list of pro-bono projects you did for very specific people. Now the whole world knows that Mr. and Mrs. Babu Baht couldn't or didn't pay their architect, it's stigmatising and demeaning, at least to me. And then this just rubbed me the wrong way: " I'm not saying I'm perfect, but I am trying to help, which seems more than most are doing." especially that last part of the sentence. Why not just do your damn pro-bono work anonymously, for the greater good without mentioning the specifics or trying to compare yourself to others, it's so narcissistic, come on! Just too full of yourself. So I had to respond, sorry. And you clearly can't handle criticism of any kind, the forum here is living proof of that rage filled idiocy. Very moderator-unworthy and you clearly abuse those moderator powers here, as far as I can tell. I'm glad I could serve as a relief for you though, don't want you getting arrested out there for your anger management issues, especially in these tense times.

"So I had to respond, sorry."

No. You didn't.

Yes. I had to and I’m glad that I did and would do it again...’No Ragrets!’

return of a classic:

Thank you for confirming the limits of your self control, rando.

Not all heroes wear capes or bed sheets, Sneaky. Some people simply have to respond and face the consequences and scrutiny, just because it is the right thing to do at the time. Got your back fam!

What about hoods? Do heroes wear hoods?

Only in M. Night Shyamalan movies

Given this douche is still prattling on, lets take a look at the Dutch and their well accepted racism, in the media no less!

Dutch Criticism of Ta-Nehisi Coates

Ate your bag of dicks too fast, and now you have a rush of blood to the head...you know it can be considered racist to paint with such a wide brush “the Dutch” as accepting racism. But that’s how you are of course, inherently racist. Did you even read the newspaper articles mentioned in that blogpost from 2015? Of course not, you’re just virtue signaling...

Oh really now?

But the Zwarte Piet tradition remains beloved in the Netherlands, and Dutch people are very resistant to the idea that it's offensive. As Matthews points out, the opinion polling is really staggering, and the Dutch prime minister has vociferously defended it:

An October 2013 poll found that 91 percent of Dutch people believe "the tradition should not be changed to suit the tastes of a minority" and 81 percent oppose changing the color of Black Pete. Center-right Dutch prime minister Mark Rutte has publicly defended the character, saying, "Black Pete is black and I cannot change that, because his name is Black Pete." He also played the "my black friends say it's okay" card, saying, "My friends from the Dutch Antilles are actually happy they don't have to paint their faces. When I play Zwarte Piet, it takes me days to wash that stuff off my face."

And, as my beloved Dutch grandmother pointed out to me when I asked about Nazi occupation; "We hated the Nazis, but if those Jews didn't cause any problems, they - Nazis - wouldn't have killed them, or caused so many problems in Holland."

Your brush is getting wider and wider, your arguments thinner and thinner. So what that your grandma was a Jew-hating racist, that says more about you and your family than it says about me or other people in the Netherlands. It is quite clear, the way you manifest yourself on here that you have the blood of a Jew-hating racist running through your veins, and you call her your "beloved" grandmother, shame! shame! shame!. Go cancel yourself and learn how to argue properly. All you try to do is offend me, but I don't care about all the shit you try to throw at me, it doesn't stick because I don't have a Nazi past, I don't paint myself in blackface or as Zwarte Piet either. So what are you trying to prove you tiny little excuse of a man? Can't have your cake and eat it...

Alwhitey then;

"The blackface would be a problem on its own. But the troubling racial overtones of Black Pete go far beyond the obvious. Black Petes are often portrayed with Surinamese accents, and illustrations of the legend have depicted Black Pete as a slave. Suriname is a South American country with a large black population that was a Dutch colony until 1975. In other words, white Dutch people aren't just dressing up as exaggerated caricatures of black people, they're also caricaturing the country's history of slavery and colonialism."

Your premise is way off again b3ta. It’s because you have your head so far up your own ass and think the entire world acts according to America’s past. But here’s a memo, Indo-European history and culture have been around for a while and predate the American racism of blackface.

” discover the truth about the mythical figure of Black Pete. Why is he blackened with soot? Why do people across the entire Indo-European continent and England paint their faces entirely black? They are otherwordly disguises and are omnipresent throughout Europe. From medieval times onwards, Saint Nicholas has had a blackened companion, whose presence would bring luck and fertility and who performed a crucial role in the continuity of live. ‘Life goes on thanks to fertility’, as one of the experts in the film has summarised the celebrations.

The images caught on film already speak for themselves, in the Alps, the Pyrenees, the Czech Republic, Italy, the Frisian Islands along the Dutch and German coast, Sardinia, and even Turkey and Iran.

Offering new historical, anthropological, and visual evidence that Saint Nicholas rites and rituals are part of Europe’s cultural history and Indo-European heritage.

A unique documentary in English, English spoken and with English titles, Pagan Europe offers new historical evidence that the roots of Black Pete do not lie in colonial history and that the character has never been a slave.” So please stop projecting your own white guilt and your families’ racism onto others, do some more pro-boner work and select your clients on the amount of pigment in their skin or the absence of a penis, your grandmother would be so proud of you, continuing the family legacy.

Rando, that Black Pete jive is still super duper racist. Appealing to history does not make it less racist.

Racism is historical which means it isn't racist.

Non, the origin and intentions behind that whole Indo-European tradition has nothing to do with racism. It can be perceived as racist, sure, but that is in the eye of the beholder...the reception of these traditions changed because the continent became a melting pot of cultures or because people from other parts of the world look at it from afar, not understanding what they really see and only judge it according to their own (local) frame of reference, which is totally okay to me, but that doesn't make it racist per se. And these traditions are obviously subject to change in our globalised society. But the intentions behind such celebratory events have nothing to do with offending or hurting people's feelings because of the colour of their skin. For instance, in Germany a swastika is a forbidden symbol and sporting it will get you arrested, for apparent reasons, in parts of Asia the swastika is a holy/religious symbol. Context is everything.

rando,anyone who does not see black pete as racist is wrong.

@SPete: "Okay let’s get back to the issue at hand before Goebbels made your hamburger!”

WORDS! RANDOM WORDS!

squirell?

"rando,anyone who does not see black pete as racist is wrong."

"rando,anyone who does not see black pete as racist is wrong." 

Non, I don't necessarily think so. Knowing the history of these kind of traditions I don't think it is necessarily racist myself but I understand that some people might consider it racist or offensive, or what have you, just because they don't know where it comes from, or the real history behind it across the European continent and beyond or what it represents. They judge the book by its cover. 

As I said earlier, not every swastika is a symbol of hate, racism and antisemitism. But I don't think a children's party is the kind of event to be fighting over the inaccuracy of the frame that opponents of black pete have managed to make mainstream. Therefore I wouldn't hang on to it, it doesn't matter and there are more important things in the world. I don't tell my kids about black pete, they don't celebrate St Nick with black pete here in daycare or schools or on tv. They will never know, there's just pete because times and traditions have already changed and evolved here under the intense pressure from a handful of full-time activists and their (threats of) violence. As long as the kids will get their treats, sweets and presents it's all good. I know where it came from, what it stood for and am just a little sad that my own innocent childhood has been violated by a tiny yet reactionary and underinformed group of people that managed to set the agenda on this by forcing the American interpretation and history of blackface and racism into this, actually modelled after or inspired by the dawn of the Black Lives Matter-movement. 

But it also gives me hope, hope that small groups of people can realise real change in this world, on issues that at least matter to them and are their genuine concern. Maybe next time it will be for a cause I could get behind 100% and has their facts straight. So, here's a video of an old white dude about getting offended and political correctness, hope you like it:

.

good reminder/ commiseration Donna. I feel like i could just quit my job right now i'm so stressed out.

and be thankful you're allowed to take breaths [sad]

you have a cool name, which goes a long way in this business.

A nice website!

Nice photography section Deep!

thanks @randomised.

Cool! Are you looking to advertise architectural services or just present your ideas?

Also really into the music. Who is that?

I'm at episode 5... and so far, John's character is the funniest.

He's so good in that role. I wish we saw more of Lisa Kudrow, too, she's got great comedy skills.

Agree. Her line about the cornrows was brilliant.

Agree. Her line about the cornrows was brilliant.

We just started it, looking forward to more!

Just finished, it's brilliant!

boring colours are boring. I'd love a yellow floor. Looking at a kitchen redo in the next year or so, pending any further c19 fallout, and I'm waiting for the right time to suggest to my wife what I want.    Current thinking is classic B/W checker floor with orange tiled backsplash.  

In my first house, I did a burnt orange true linoleum floor.. Cool color, horrible material for a kitchen (soaks in grease that attracts dirt and muck). My wife is still wondering what I'm going to do with my '70's vanity sinks; Kohler cast irons in cobalt blue and canary yellow. Now we're doing mostly minimalist; light maple floors, white walls, some warm greys and letting the furnishings, art, etc. be the color splash.

These both sound so cool! I'm looking at the Marmoleum Click-Loc so I can DIY, but it looks super easy to do a checker or any other pattern.

mightyaa - was that like old-school Linoleum? The newest Marmoleum by Forbo appears to have an improved wear layer on top and require less maintenance... still a bit nervous about spills and oil and stuff. But I'm very against using vinyl and engineered hardwood (due to environmental impacts and formaldehyde) and I can't afford true hardwood, plus acoustics are an issue there. Tile isn't appropriate for the house.

Yes, it was the Marmoleum by Forbo; mid-90's version though so I don't if they changed much or had a wear layer. Cool stuff, easy to install and cut myself, but grease splatter does stick. I'd have to scrub with dish soap (to lift the grease) monthly around the stove. Other than that, just damp mop. The feel of this stuff is 'softer' like bamboo and the texturing isn't consistent enough to be confused with a 'fake' printed product. Based on my office which had true linoleum dating back to the '40's, watch out for a lot of moisture; it can curl. But.. 80 years of entry use and it still looked good.

Do they make decent stove / ranges with legs so you can clean under them? I don't do much residential, so I haven't looked.

No idea. I don't do any residential either. Was going to do a built-in gas cooktop. Debating whether we want to do a wall oven or skip the oven entirely. Maybe just a box with shelves where you could put a microwave and one of those fancy convection toaster ovens (like a Breville Smart Oven). I cook lots but don't use my oven too often.

From a resale standpoint, you don't want to skip an oven; dual ovens are sort of the trend currently. And yes, you can get ranges on legs, but the clearance isn't much; more like wannabe commercial look.  ... I don't intentionally do residential, but visit a lot and my sister is custom residential cabinet designer.

Oh, and if you want to be a cool kid, look at the Thermador induction cooktops. Takes special pots and pans, but the tech is cool. That same sister did a kitchen remodel this year with all sorts of cool stuff... I think she was showing off since my other sister and dad (and cousin and brother inlaw) are also architects.

yeah that's a good point about resale... also unfortunately why I was shying away from a colorful or fun floor, especially because I doubt we have more than 5-8 years left here.

Also, if you are doing this stuff yourself, talk to the manufacturer's. There are often trade discounts. Even places like wayfair give you a discount as an architect. Way back with that Forbo stuff, I pretty much paid pennies on the dollar using the product rep.

Good advice on Wayfair, I didn't know! Otherwise i've been contacting all my commercial reps seeing about getting products. I don't want to cross any ethical boundaries but if you simply ask "can i buy this direct?" (after speccing like $350,000+ of the product on my last project) the answer has generally been "yes and we have trade pricing!" or "no, but if you give me your address I'll send you some that fell off a truck."

Specifically to the concern about resale: It seems to me that with the explosion of HGTV and whatnot *most* people who buy a home will *intend* to do some renovation/personalization. So if you pick a bright color Marmoleum floor, the new owners can very easily swap it out to do their own "design" that they will want to do to personalize it anyway. Live Love Laugh!

I don't care about resale. It's my house, I'll do what I want in whatever colour I want.

the notion of resale value overstates the impact of individual agency in what's essentially a supply/demand market. even dreadful shit sells fast and expensive in SF/NYC while beautiful classic houses sit abandoned in post-industrial cities.

That's what I think every time I see gorgeous victorians or entire farms selling for the same price as shitty bungalows. WHY AM I HERE!? Then I look around at all of the benefits that exist here not there.

alright thanks for the pep talk people. Yellow floor, here we come.

Midlander and SneakyPete - check out http://reserections.com/ (sounds NSFW but absolutely is)

i love that name, the catholic / erotic double meaning! when i was in high school a great brick colonial house in an old town near my home got lifted on trucks to move to a new site due i think to a death and the children subdividing the land for development. but it got stuck in the legal morass of probate disputes and ended up parked on jacks in front of a supermarket parking lot for about 10 years. i loved the surreal image of it. it eventually did get relocated on a nice lot nearby.

oh man, would love to see some pictures if you have any.

At one of my first jobs, we picked this old ass wood-frame church up with a crane and moved it onto a foundation, which it never really had. Was kinda fun to go in and inspect the bracing and cribbing and pick points and stuff. And then to see it groan and shudder as it was lifted and dropped back down... really no worse for wear.

no, this was pre-internet. looking it up online found out it burned down 15 years ago :(

What a career choice. That's so awesome. I'm curious what "plus Shipping and Handling" would be. Because 75k for a stone church is a steal.

I'm torn about it. Would much rather have a firm DO something that publicize their feelings about it. But i guess that is good too?

^^^ that was my reservation as well...but silence has been part of the problem; so, acknowledging the issue is a small step to at least demonstrate some solidarity, even if it is only lip service to start

Our firm sent an internal 2 1/2 paragraphs. It was decently written I suppose. I'm sure the big cheese people spent time arguing about the exact wording, as I'm told they argue wording a lot, and the email shows "craftsmanship". It acknowledged the issue, supported "change" and then 2 paragraphs to specifically support employees in whatever choices they made, both for Covid, protesting, and "in these times". It wrapped it up by requesting all employees keep communication channels open when making their plans and to report to direct superiors and HR with anything concrete.

Still, only words, and my personal tip would be, always remember HRs roll, it's not for you, if you must communicate, spend at least as much time as they do "crafting" your email.

I'm sure you posted the link with words of support or reinforcement and didn't cherry-pick the statement to further your own counter-narrative bullshit. Totally sure.

Exactly! Don’t know what kind of counter-narrative you’re referring to tbh...but it was all positive and all in support of BLM, guess b3ta “moderated” the item ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I believe you. You've done so much recently to show your motives are always straight-forward and honest.

MY motives are, indeed! All I did recently is stand up against sexism, narcissism, racism and bullying and try and support free speech. but hell, most people seem to only appreciate free speech and such if they agree with what is being said or who is saying it...

Bless your heart.

Love you too!

Am I wrong in thinking that you're implying that from the two sides it looks like a penis?

we're thinking it definitely should look like a penis, right?

Why are we guessing when we could be confirming with images?

Everything looks like a penis to you people.

(I don't know who "you people" are but it sounded good.)

It resembles one, however it could also resemble a femur or nylabone dog chew.

Get you mind out of the gutter, Wood Guy. I was thinking femur ;o]

I was thinking penis.

Is posting on social media effective for ending racial injustice? Or should people be donating to the cause, voting, supporting progressive political candidates, getting involved in local politics, etc? I'm not saying there aren't plenty of people who this statement is perhaps true of, but I also see the utterly corrosive influence of social media on politics and discourse, and am not sure how virtue signaling online is helping any of it.

Lemme ask you something, why can't we do both, because it seems like to me, social media, has been the fucking leveler with police fuckery. People have been roiling politicians, celebrities, Amys, Karens, and Chads ANNNNND donating to causes, bailing out political prisoners, buying black art, mobilizing real actions, changing policies; real shit. So, if you want to duuuumb this down to stoopid social media posts, you are missing the larger point.

I was sincerely just asking the question.

struck a nerve with that one.. we're looking at trump's twitter rate here

Yeah, high profile libertarians are out there protesting as we speak. Right, x-lax? Right?

wow. justin amash. what a get.

calling to defund the police is not extreme (to use your own point, there is a range of views as to what that means, but nuance only applies when convenient for you). what is extreme is have a bloated police budget that is larger than over 100 country's militaries, which is the case here in nyc.

OH NOES LESS PROFILING

Take your pick of the following for continuing the discussion: https://archinect.com/forum/thread/150055375/libertarianism https://archinect.com/forum/thread/150143564/politics-central

the internet has been won today. nothing better will be posted.

Who said anything about a lie? Perhaps you need to reread some things?

The lie is that things aren't complex. They are.

Just gonna keep repeating myself, I guess.

Take your pick of the following for continuing the discussion: https://archinect.com/forum/thread/150055375/libertarianism https://archinect.com/forum/thread/150143564/politics-central

I don't believe that quote!

I was never too fond of that Michael Jackson picture.

Mom?

Zardov is fucking brilliant. Love it.  Also, there better be some Neil Young albums in that vinyl collection.

You mean to fully represent my "by birth a Canuck...but not by location" identity?

No moderating for me ... well sometimes I might need some moderating, but I’m not a moderator. I always thought you might be one.

I was/am but just not fully up to speed on all the new features. Did you just manually gather that data then? I figured maybe there was some moderator dashboard I wasn't aware of/using...

Nothing special other than looking through my email. The site sends you an email every time someone likes or dislikes one of your comments. Make a filter to find all those emails in your inbox, tally up the results in excel, create graph. Not much to it really. Non Sequitur did it first (near the bottom of this page of TC).

congrats on the kiddo, at least you have a solid reason to enjoy this lockdown a.k.a. paternity leave!

Nam, I started a thread on the may thumbs results.

https://archinect.com/forum/thread/150200332/thumbs-up-down-results

When I was young I think we called that color hazel. But my family is pretty weird so maybe that was only us.

I thought so too, by from reading, Hazel is more often that not green/brown. I've got blueish as well, so I have no idea.

i'd call it hazel. my brother and father have similar coloration.

Hazel. Mine are similar, and like most people with hazel eyes, they change color slightly depending, I think, on mood or environment. I have an orange drop in one iris.

That's somewhere between #6b5c3d and #55432d!

I'd love to join, but can't make the time. I'm on your mailing list tho and I'll be checking for the recap next week.

I thought there was separate threads for politics, covid, conspiracy rants, etc...? Can't he post in those?

Again - highly recommend placing him on the 'ignore' function, it makes the threads much more enjoyable.

No, you tried and nobody wanted to take your bait, so you started spouting bullshit in someone else's thread.

It would help if the moderators hid or got rid of the posts that aren't on topic with what TC normally is. Most moderators in other forums have the ability to move a post to another topic if necessary ... not sure if that's an option here, but it would be my preference. 

It would also help if one of the moderators would moderate his own posting at times to refrain from name calling and continued trolling (name starts with a 'b' ends with a '3tadine[sutures]').

Feel free to purge my participation, too. I've put lax back on ignore, it was a mistake to remove.

"I am starting a new thread that is about other threads. You can talk about other discussions taking a place in Archinect and make cross references to a particular link, picture, response and whatever else you deem necessary or entertaining or thought provoking about the other thread. thus the name: Thread Central"

So you can talk here about what's going on in the covid-thread and the politics-thread or any other subject or thread whatever. If you want to just complain that you had a slow day in the office or whatever and are annoyed that someone is actually talking about a topic that is important and matters, maybe make a new thread so it can be included in TC like that, as that was not the purpose of this place when this thread was made by abracadabra. Stop whining and going after people and try to get them banned from here basically just because you disagree with them and can't handle the intensity. What a bunch of snowflakes here recently [insert Jazz hands]/rant

It's because you didn't just post the photo, you posted it in the context of claiming racism is a media division problem. 

You responding "it's just a photo" is, of course, is a great example of having to debate every fucking thing from first principles because you insist we ignore the months of other dumb shit you've said every time you say the same old dumb shit again. It really mucks up the place. Take it to Pol Central.

"almost always absent from media"

Narrator: x-lax knew this was impossible to prove, but said it anyways. 

Oops, forgot to click the ignore button like I said I was gonna.

"Ever meet a racist astrophysicist?" Yep.

randomised, read the op again and you'll see the intent is not to draw every discussion into Thread Central. Rather, it is supposed to direct other people's attention to those discussion threads so they can discuss those topics in those threads. 

Even then, the usage of Thread Central has evolved over the years, and nearly 70k comments later it is more of a gathering place for regular (and new) members of the forums to simply discuss what's going on in their lives without creating a separate thread like, "Donna's week has been rough and is breaking out the bourbon at 2pm on Thursday" (no offense intended Donna). 

If there is a thread already discussing a topic, or the topic brought up in Thread Central is taking on a life of it's own, the appropriate thing to do would be to take it out of Thread Central to those other threads, or create a new one to contain the topic.

In that case there should definitely be a thread like "Donna's week has been rough and is breaking out the bourbon at 2pm on Thursday" or TC could simply be renamed ;-) 

But I guess that those other (political) threads just don't have the same traction and engagement as TC, you need at least two to tango, no? I like the fact that this is a thread with such a wide range of topics being discussed informally, I picture this a little like the Cheers of the forum...to be banning people from here just goes against the spirit(s) of the community in my opinion.

I've indicated, both implicitly and explicitly, that I'd be up for "tangoing" in the right thread. I don't think that just because it isn't in TC that others wouldn't engage as well. But keeping it to the other threads lets people avoid it if they don't want to participate. Injecting it here because it might have more traction is not conducive to building a community. 

And while I don't like the idea of banning people from a community any more than you probably do (I think some moderation is all that would be needed) ... I do think there are times when it might be warranted if people consistently show intention to be disruptive or lack the restraint to stop from being disruptive. Just like a bar owner would have the ability to ask certain patrons to leave if they're being disruptive to the community.

I don't disagree. Maybe you can actually take over from b3ta as moderator, no @archinect?

I'm all for a good faith debate but lately I just feel like the good faith has been exhausted and we're re-hashing the same dumb argument with deteriorating returns because a handful of posters lay down a big ol' generalization in response to anything even tangentially related, then reply ad infinitum with minutia and distractions.

It's an online forum - the chance of changing anyone's mind on these topics is low.

I used to disagree, but reading your posts I've changed my mind ;-)

it's been said in science that knowledge advances when compelling new theories convince the young and the old generations die off. this is true in general. you can teach students new ideas - with everyone else they're either in agreement or not. no one ever changed their mind because of an argument by someone they don't agree with
.

Back to tduds' question--other forums I've been in have a "Tavern" or "Breakroom" where pretty much anything goes. I know that's not what TC was originally intended for, but it seems to be what it's become (and makes it the perfect place for Donna to let us know she's getting into the wine early).

Like any tavern, rowdy patrons can get kicked out, and nobody wants to hear from the loudmouth who HAS to inject their opinion into every conversation. Most of us are here to unwind with colleagues, a few to debate topics that aren't appropriate for the office.

"... is a practicing [design/build landscape] architect ..." 

FTFY

As far as I assume x-lax is a great architect. Evidence suggests a lousy human, though.

I can't say that I've seen any of x-jla's work so I cannot comment on his/her landscape designs.  Being a design build firm I'm even more confused how x-jla has so much time to post here.  

Guess there's plenty of time to post here once the grass is growing.

Found their paper, looks like the proposal will be a 4 year B.Arch, I presume it'd include year one of the M.Arch, and then 3 years work based learning granting a level 7 qualification, wich would incorporated the current year 2 of the existing M.Arch. No part 3. Only one degree, the second work based part, I presume would run like an apprenticeship type thing.

do tell

Snøhetta?

was it the guy who signed off on the geotech report for this house?
https://specials-images.forbesimg.com/imageserve/5ed7f7044db07b0007557d4a/960x0.jpg?fit=scale

WELL DONE MIDLANDER!!!! LOLing. But yes, I’ve heard tons of rumors about Snohetta and Craig but nothing credible. Yet.

I am apparently out of the loop. What's the drama? I googled 'drama in Norwegian architecture firm' and all I got was pic of wooden shoes.  :(

Snøhetta apparently didn't make a supportive PR-statement about Black Lives Matter and now we know why Twitter is upset:

https://twitter.com/coopercoop...

Looks like it's not that the firm didn't make a pro BLM statement but that one of the partners made whack-job, tinfoil had, racist statements about BLM. Did the firm report this info about the partner themselves or was this leaked? Do we have any credible sources to back up the meme?

suck it, x-lax.

everytime xjlax shows up

x-jla you can suck it

Chad, it was the sentiment of some tweet(s) I scanned, that it took them a full 15 days and counting...until I found that image and thought to share. I don't have sources other than that tweet, but it has quotation marks, so who knows!

leave paw patrol out of this. Rubble is the best.

Re-contextualizing Gone With the Wind is not cancelling it, you disingenuous turd.

Duress? https://twitter.com/GodCloseMyEyes/status/1267654392418885633?s=20

This is a good response. I was right there with everyone in my reaction to the post last week, but I never know how much credence to give a post like that.

This, as an official position, is something that you can take seriously. Does the internal dialogue that it took to get here discredit this statement for anyone, or just show that it's the result of thoughtful consideration? 

I'd personally tend to agree that if the news re: "internal dialogue" was true this is a pretty good statement.

Call it "youth-challenged."

lol... I defined myself as old when I reviewing some older site photographs and there was a an "old guy hand" in the photos... and realized it was my own.

Been speaking with a few friends/family back home in the last week, it sounds like things have improved significantly up there. How's the market looking as of late? General public attitudes toward safety measures?

Regionally I've found things to have improved significantly now. Nationally, its still an absolute shit-show, which concerns me regarding recovery in my area. I'm very supportive of JT keeping the borders closed for the foreseeable future, even if it kyboshed my vacation back.

Yeah, my colleagues in other offices in the city are wicked busy and now that more sites are opening up, everyone wants to catch up and work done before, dare I say on this glorious 38c day, winter starts. The JT and Ontario gov moves have been pretty well received and helped plug some holes although and alleviate some of the stress. It's tough on the little ones too but things are looking up. I just don't get what's going on south of my border. Glad we have the balls to keep that border closed and don't waste our time making empty statements and clutching bibles on tv.

There's a cold beer on my backyard patio with your name on it if they ever let you back into the civilized world.  8-)

Been back in the office since last week, but almost noone else is yet, so I'm almost as safe as I was at home.

I live alone, no family, no pets, so I was stir crazy enough to jump on the first day we could (optionally) return to the office.

Much appreciated! I genuinely do hope to take you up on that offer at some point. Who knows, the way things are going down here makes it hard to say what the near future is going to be like. Ive been vocally pro-border-closing from here, even if its a weird angle to take as a resident of the US. Im still planning to get back in the fall for ~2 weeks at the cottage.

As an afterthought, I should say though - our firm is exceptionally well managed, and it is showing through the current climate. I think you and liberty bell are the only two who know the name.

there are a few of these in my city. They all pop'ed up around the same time 3y ago. Looks like great fun. Had one booked up for a bachelor party last month but had to cancel.

I have that and an archery bay in my backyard. :)

Chad, you'e not one of those medieval geeks, are you?

-HL Blaine de Navarre, Caid

Nope. I am an archer though - recurve bow. The 'target shed' I built for archery just needed some added wood and it worked for hatchet and knife throwing.

Chad, I think your style of drawing would lend itself VERY WELL to designing and diagramming some siege machines - catapults, breaching ladders, ramps, and the like.

That would be so much fun! Of course anything I designed would probably blow up or only toss a stone about 10'. :)

Also these are my 'construction docs' for when I hobble something together in my garage.  

Sign me up for the new Hatchet-Throwing Experience (a.k.a. Axes Axes Axes). I'll pay extra to affix photos of certain folks on the target wall.

We need MORE COWBELLS TO RING THIS TURD OUT OF OFFICE!

reshuffling? this does not feel like '08 to me. however, the weird times gives everyone a chance to look around and think 'the grass is greener.' it's kind of like, a bunch of employees are feeling like they want to move on for a better career at the same time employers are thinking they want to strengthen or 'right size' their staff .

You answered your own question when you specified "corporate" firms - one studio/department just finished or lost a project and another studio/department just picked one up. It's stupid, but I've worked for firms that do it.

Some firms are almost constantly both hiring and laying off at the same time - look at the ones that have ads on Archinect every single week.

.

Two younger staff left our office voluntarily this week, one to go out on his own. I know if one other local architect who was laid off but opened his own shop immediately and is keeping busy with residential remodels.

It does not feel like '08 to me either. In '08 it was like a hammer came down and squashed much of the profession pretty much all at once. It wasn't that all firms were on exactly the same timeline - but it started that spring, and by November/December of that year there were just piles of firms that had dumped all or very nearly all their staff. Even then though, it's important to understand that nationwide the lowest that architecture numbers ever hit was about 40% unemployment at the worst of it, and that didn't last for long. In the years since I've seen a lot of threads here in which people claim some vastly exaggerated numbers, like 80% unemployment that lasted for 6+ years, and well... all I can say about that is you just have to consider the source. In late 2008 I was laid off, and was unemployed for about 4-5 months until I got a job in a firm that was booming on certain types of niche projects. There were still places to go, but they took a lot of looking, and things did get very, very competitive.

Right now things feel a lot different, in that a good collection of firms across all sizes and markets seem to be extremely busy right through the current situation, while others are way down. It's much more difficult to make big generalizations about the why's in this current situation. I'm in a fairly large firm that has remained quite busy, with no changes in staff, and we're hiring for a few positions, while a similar firm doing similar projects right across the street has laid off several. A couple friends who have local residential firms are lamenting their total lack of work, and saying that everybody is scared to spend money right now, while a couple other friends with local residential firms are going crazy trying to keep up, and saying everyone is home learning that they need bigger houses, and still willing to spend for them.

It doesn't feel like the bottom is dropping out suddenly like in '08 - there's a lot of upheaval - lots of clients rethinking things, but in both directions - and still a lot of places for most architects to fit themselves, for now anyway.

I know from the personal perspective of senior management at large firms that all the big firms have used this as an opportunity for some staff realignment, which is another reason you see them laying off and hiring simultaneously. They have all been openly talking about this at the big firm roundtables. One of the major things a lot of us have been struggling with for the last couple of years is very tight labor markets: strategic hiring has been a huge struggle. Now there is a chance to fill strategic positions which have been open for some time while also reorganizing underperforming or expensive groups. So some significant part of this is opportunistic.

we could also be in something more akin to summer 07; don't be surprised if the economy gets significantly worse

It could. Even if there weren't all the dramatic current upheaval, we'd be about due for a downturn. I've been in the profession long enough to have gone through 08 which affected most of the profession, and the tech bubble collapse in the early 2000s which affected some architecture firms enormously and some barely at all. I was in architecture school during the one in the late 80s/early 90s which greatly impacted construction and hence architects and consequently the bitter mindset of most of my instructors, who warned daily to get out of the field now or end up like them, scraping together adjunct teaching gigs and climbing over each other fighting for freelancer scraps. It's inevitable that there will be another downturn.  And another upturn.  And so on.

What's a little different about the current one is that it came very suddenly with less clear warning about what the impact would be on architects, and the impact has been so inconsistent.  The rest were all foreseeable from miles in advance, because architecture lags a behind the construction and finance indicators.  People deal with the cyclical uncertainty in different ways. Getting into a more stable profession is one, if you just don't want to deal with it. Getting into a comparatively more stable role within the profession is another (try facilities person for a large hospital system, or a government job.) Becoming a jack of a few trades and a good investor has been my coping strategy. When the inevitable upturns happen, those people who have stayed in it often find wide open opportunities, because of everybody who has left and chosen not to return.

Did she ever remind you of this when you misbehaved? ("Get a head start, Sweetie. Mommy likes a challenge.")

Mom was also a senior citizen athlete. You can't even imagine the metals she has stashed away. Last Senior Olympics Games she competed in 2 Golds a Bronze and a Silver. We never misbehaved cause we new the could out run all of her six children. She is 93 and still kicking!

I would love to meet your mom.

I barely slept last night, in part at least because I was CADding right up until bedtime so my brain was wired.

I've been lucky to never have had trouble sleeping, but that's being sorely tested right now.

insomnia - tired

ansomnia - wired

Nice!

Nice Reviting Donna.

LOL I should be clear I did bit draw that! It’s from a fairly famous firm’s drawings for a project from 1989 that I saw today.

Ugh “not” not “bit”.

this was the first 3d modeling software i ever used, i think. i'll never forget the drop in my stomach when i stared into the abyss of formz, trying complicated tasks like making a cube

I still use FormZ, for my artwork, though not for architectural projects. I've been using it for close to 30 years so it's just my go-to for certain processes.  Like a native language, it's the one I think best in, even though I'm fluent in many newer, snazzier applications. But ever since they changed all the icons about 12 years ago or so it's not quite felt right, and the only version I still own is newer than that. For my purposes I should probably try to buy a 15+-year old version - and the old computer to run it.

Archiving and accessing digital info is a real problem.

Fascinating. I admit these icon have a sketchup cartoon like look to them.

I haven't been able to get my head around AutoCad since they switched to the ribbon layout, and that was, what, 2013? Have no problems using Revit which has always been like that....

Arch, I agree with the CAD ribbon menus... I can't stand them for more than 8minutes. Good thing I know most commands as shortcuts but still... I ended up making a custom CUI file using an older version of CAD to bring the menu bars back in the way I prefer.

I can spare four thoughts and a prayer-and-a-half.

that's not a missing millimeter, that's 0.0001mm

How are you measuring your lines? If using dims, check if they are rounding up or change the precision.

.

Doing my tree in! I've got a perfectly accurate floor plan, I draw two perpendicular lines offset by 1000mm, trim to form a doorway, fillet the lines and at the the new opening, the wall thickness has gone from 302.5 down to 301.9777...

No there wasn't and no you don't

Maybe so. I'm taking a break... 13.5hrs yesterday and 6.5hrs so far today and not yet had breakfast! Unhealthy work ethic... I'm putting my feet up for an hour!

All fixed, I don't know now I managed it... I got a few lines ever so slightly off plumb.. The properties box showed the x coordinates that should have been identical were off by a tiny amount at either end of the offending line... Now I can take a break!

The door I had placed wasn't snapped to the corner either... and I had managed to align the other side of the wall to the door, no in line with the wall on the opposing side...

Head / Palm

Jae, we have this issue in almost every drawing. It's typically from staff scalling thinking they are ortho but then something snaps to a node somewhere and now we're in 0.0001 decimal zones.

Non, I've been stretching and moving different parts for about an hour over zoom, back and forth agreeing wall / room partitions. I guess I did that without realising!

It wouldn't help the angry typists without a lot more moderation from archinect to move their posting into threads where it would belong. You only have to scroll halfway up this page to find that they don't keep things contained to appropriate threads. Better option is to just use the ignore feature. 

FWIW, I'd be in favor of being able to filter threads by all the topics & categories, not just academia. I just don't think it's going to help in this particular case without more moderation. Perhaps we should all just started flagging off-topic posts as inappropriate or spam ... ?

This site's never been enthusiastic about moderating. It's better now than it used to be, but lacking. A lot of the discussions get taken to other less lenient (or findable) sites for continuation as soon as they start to get any good, and leave the trolls to play here. Archinect is a combination of test kitchen and sorting hat for panning out the good stuff from the dreck, and then the good stuff leaves. It doesn't seem like the best model but it's been like that for +/- 20 years now.

Other sites? You mean there's other places on the internet?

You could simply ignore b3ta, but where's the fun in that?

I could simply ignore you, but you're a master class on bad trolling.

is it time for beer yet?

It's always time for a beer.

good. just check'n in case things had changed.

The logo has been different for a few days. Is something else different?

That's what I see, Bloopox.

I forget about the homepage and almost never see it, since my bookmark is directly to the Forums page. But, yes, the logo seems new.

Ooooooooh. Something's going on.

citizen, I also bookmark to the Forums LOL.

Wait, are you saying there are other parts of this site besides the forums and job board? Who knew?

There’s a job board?

The new logo takes me back to hand-numbering vellum drawing sheets with those metal Corbu stencils. Then, of course, deciding on the correct classical order for the temple renovation.

Rick started giving forum usage advice which a.k.a. a glitch in the matrix...

"But we can all agree that I shouldn't have to give out advice on proper forum usage in the first place by everyone engaging in proper forum usage."

looks like it. The green head must have been angered.

Curious what the final straw(man) was.

Someone had over a dozen comments in the monuments thread in like a 2-hour window (still currently visible in their comment history ... at least until the cache gets cleared or something like that from archinect's servers). I'm sure those had nothing to do with it [/sarcasm].

Best comment in my view was Gregory Walker's rebuttal to gwharton. The Samuel L. Jackson joke was 'meh' at best.

I'll echo that A+ to Gregory walker.

some of my best work gone :-( fingers crossed the CHAP-thread won't get CHOPped.

all nickleback evidence is gone.

One would think that if someone had over 2 dozen comments in 2 hours in the problem thread - and particularly if that someone was also the reason for the mucking up and subsequent nuking of a variety of past threads - that the Big Green Head might find it more efficient to just nuke the someone.

That thread had some of your best work randomised?

Vaguely reminiscent of a few years back, when a certain prolific and reality-challenged gadfly* was finally given the heave-ho. Even the most vitriolic recent exchanges here pale next to that person's paranoid delusions. 

* Undiagnosed mental patient

Rick was forced off for a time and has come back (ever so slightly) better compared to what he was prior to the sabbatical. He still needs some boundaries (i.e. no posting here on TC) and moderating at times (he got himself booted and nuked from his own thread). 

I'm not advocating for one thing or another, but I'm not a fan of simply banning people. I do think, however, that sometimes some checks or boundaries need to be put up in order for some people to calm down and practice some restraint. The other idea of giving them their own space to work out their frustrations apparently didn't seem to work.

the thread disappeared while i was trying to write something conveying my strong feelings without being openly hostile to a few strangers on the internet whose opinions i don't care for at all. i'm glad it's gone. some things are too important to discuss with unfiltered strangers.

yes. IRL i filter my interactions with strangers - for example i might chat with someone i meet walking down the street outside my mother's house, but if someone on the subway squeezes up to me and asks how things are going, i'll move away. on the internet it's hard to figure out the appropriate filtering.

in neither case would i discuss my feelings on current political events. though with someone i just at a party hosted by a friend, i probably would.

"That thread had some of your best work randomised?"

It had the best work, with the best words, I know words!