it's a beatifully designed thing but, even when i look beyond the 'obey' slogan, i still SEE the graphic style borrowed from less-than-progressive - more threatening - sources. it's the only association i can make and, because it's visual, it hits me in a place that i can't think around the feeling that association gives me.
well, I can't help but think that "obey" could have been treated in a less threatening way. Bold caps, it's a command, a strong-arm tactic, no room for reading between the lines. A more sensitive approach may have been more successful.
I turned in my application for Rome today! I find out in a few weeks if I get to go... all signs point to yes, as grad students are helpful to corralling the undergrads. It's exciting to have turned it in and get the process started.
May I suggest that if you find the poster questionable, and you are so inclined, to support Obama's campaign with an on-line donation as they try to get 25,000 new donors by midnight.
donate what you can (even $25 or less), but I would urge you to donate as it is important to show the support this campaign has, SPECIALLY BEFORE SUPER DUPER TUESDAY.
THAT i think is the beauty of the graphic, and his message...
The OBEY sticker campaign can be explained as an experiment in Phenomenology. Heidegger describes Phenomenology as "the process of letting things manifest themselves." Phenomenology attempts to enable people to see clearly something that is right before their eyes but obscured; things that are so taken for granted that they are muted by abstract observation.
The FIRST AIM OF PHENOMENOLOGY is to reawaken a sense of wonder about one's environment. The OBEY sticker attempts to stimulate curiosity and bring people to question both the sticker and their relationship with their surroundings. Because people are not used to seeing advertisements or propaganda for which the product or motive is not obvious, frequent and novel encounters with the sticker provoke thought and possible frustration, nevertheless revitalizing the viewer's perception and attention to detail. The sticker has no meaning but exists only to cause people to react, to contemplate and search for meaning in the sticker. Because OBEY has no actual meaning, the various reactions and interpretations of those who view it reflect their personality and the nature of their sensibilities.
Many people who are familiar with the sticker find the image itself amusing, recognizing it as nonsensical, and are able to derive straightforward visual pleasure without burdening themselves with an explanation. The PARANOID OR CONSERVATIVE VIEWER however may be confused by the sticker's persistent presence and condemn it as an underground cult with subversive intentions. Many stickers have been peeled down by people who were annoyed by them, considering them an eye sore and an act of petty vandalism, which is ironic considering the number of commercial graphic images everyone in American society is assaulted with daily.
Another phenomenon the sticker has brought to light is the trendy and CONSPICUOUSLY CONSUMPTIVE nature of many members of society. For those who have been surrounded by the sticker, its familiarity and cultural resonance is comforting and owning a sticker provides a souvenir or keepsake, a memento. People have often demanded the sticker merely because they have seen it everywhere and possessing a sticker provides a sense of belonging. The Giant sticker seems mostly to be embraced by those who are (or at least want to seem to be) rebellious. Even though these people may not know the meaning of the sticker, they enjoy its slightly disruptive underground quality and wish to contribute to the furthering of its humorous and absurd presence which seems to somehow be antiestablishment/societal convention. Giant stickers are both embraced and rejected, the reason behind which, upon examination reflects the psyche of the viewer. Whether the reaction be positive or negative, the stickers existence is worthy as long as it causes people to consider the details and meanings of their surroundings. In the name of fun and observation.
I'm not going to give money to buy a poster from a group that calls itself "obey" anything. And I don't have the time, or the inclination, to learn about a campaign by a group that calls itself that. It's definitely a put-off, and I'm "younger".
I will, however, give money directly to Obama to spread his message of HOPE.
Sure beta, whatever. I don't care. I definitely think it could be unhelpful for people if they don't take the time to look at it, or aren't smart enough to get it. Like I said, I just don't have the time, so I'm going to stick with giving my money where it's actually useful.
Wow nothing, beta...I get what this campaign is trying to do and it's very hip and forward looking and all (although gimme a break with the Heidegger and Phenomenology), but you're just kidding yourself if you think most people will get past the literalness of the word OBEY and its 1984 connotations (and here I mean solely in connection with Obama's campaign, not any other uses of the sticker). I know, why don't you hand out the above explanation with the stickers, and people will go "Oh yeah, now I get it, now it's perfectly clear".
A-Techno, how is that puddle stalking coming by the way? What clues do you have so far? He's in the Caribean, right? And its not a well known Island, right?
...frig all, i struggle too with the COMPANY name, the message however is quite different than a COMPANY name, as i think it is meant to challenge conventions. i would think that US as intelligent designers, would get that a graphic artist interested in poking all of us would get through, but perhaps i am too old to get it.
I believe with great conviction that Barack Obama should be the next President. I have been paying close attention to him since the Democratic convention in 2004. I feel that he is more a statesman than a politician. He was against the war when it was an unpopular position (and Hillary was for the war at that time), Obama is for energy and environmental conservation. He is for healthcare reform. Check him out for yourself www.barackobama.com Proceeds from this print go to produce prints for a large statewide poster campaign.
Thanks.
-Shepard
if anyone took a look at the poster you'd see that OBEY is not even on it, quite different than the other work he produces.
vamure, present company excluded, but frankly there are a lot of people who wouldn't get it. And given that we're trying to reach out with this campaign.....like I said, it may be unhelpful.
I think we may be wearing out our welcome talking about politics on TC, so I'm going to shut up now.
Ok, I get it...COMPANY name. Now that I've actually looked at the site (I was just assuming that a sticker with the word OBEY was being handed out, and just saw Beta's site URL above) I change my tune a little. The poster is actually nice, and the fact that most people will not even realize it comes from a company named OBEY changes things. To quote Emily Litella "Never mind..." (see Beta, I'm probably older than you).
i like fairey and i like obama. so that's not what this conversation is about.
people make impressions of visual stimulus very quickly - almost pre-mentally. the 'obey' program to me is very clever, and for the reasons that fairey says.
applying the same graphic style to promote obama, however, can not help obama and can only hurt. it's simply making associations with a historic visual language that, at best, confuses people, at worst, associates obama with nefarious political situations of the past. not the way to spread a positive political message. graphic style is NOT mute and is not without content.
it especially doesn't help when many people are perfectly willing to ALREADY make plenty of negative associations about obama simply because of his name and biography.
SW - I agree completely with your previous comments concerning the design's graphic style. It could be construed in the wrong way if someone is just "skimming" over such a thing.
Anyway, thanks Gin for the birthday wishes. So far it's been a pretty good one. The programming (which I love doing) for my new project is coming along smoothly. I'm excited about working with both the client and my other co-workers as we all seem to be on the same page. YAY!!! I guess the test will be when we actually have the schematics to present to them.
I like the Progress poster. I think it's hopeful, mostly, maybe a little of the zing of communism but not enough to scare anyone off.
And I'm honestly shocked to find out you guys haven't heard of obey, I thought it was as ubiquitous as "your base are belong to us" or the cats with the text (what are they called?) these days.
I've seen the "OBEY" stickers around the city a bit, but never knew what they referred to until now. During the 2004 Republican National Convention here in NYC, I saw a lot of protesters carrying big placards with a black-and-white drawings of Bush's face above the word "OBEY". The tongue-in-cheek meaning was obvious, of course, and it gave me a good chuckle.
Speaking of the ghosts of 2004, I finally had the appointment with my shoulder doc, and my insurance company gave the green light for surgery. Since this is a pre-existing condition my doc was worried I'd get socked with a $30,000 hospital bill if the insurance company denied my claim, but it turns out my firm's group policy has no exclusions for pre-existing conditions. If they did, I wouldn't have been able to have surgery until October at the earliest. I call the surgical coordinator tomorrow to schedule the surgery, which will probably happen in about 4-6 weeks.
One of my parents will be making the trip up from North Carolina for the occasion... My mom has never been to NYC before, and my dad was here once the late 60's. So, in addition to dealing with the surgery, I'll be playing host and teaching mom or dad how to ride the subway, etc.
After the surgery, I'll be in a sling for about six weeks, and then I'll have about six months of physical therapy. And when all that is done, they'll take a look at my left shoulder and see what's wrong, if it's still bothering me then. Looks like I'm in for an interesting few months.
My deadline to apply for degree conferral is tomorrow. In order to graduate in June, I'd have to pay the school $100 and submit tons of paperwork tomorrow, and commit myself to doing lots of schoolwork between now and the end of May. With this surgery business, that simply isn't going to happen.
My BA degree has already been 14 years in the making... What's another few months? As long as I don't get too far behind, it shouldn't impact my plans to start my M.Arch. in fall 2009.
I taught my parents how to use Washington's Metrorail; now they love it - it's like a game for them. Of course, our subway system is much more user-friendly than NYC's...
My parents aren't very adventuresome... These are the same ones who want me to design their retirement home based on a "French Countryside" design the got from a plan book at Home Depot, and who think Olive Garden is an authentic Italian meal. "Easy listening" was the only music I heard for the first 15 years of my life.
Assuming I'm not too sore and/or drugged up, maybe I'll be able to take them to a few off-the-beaten-path places around town.
...the beauty in the image lies not in the obvious allusions to the familiar propagandist images of the past, it lies in the simple, and perhaps not so obvious fact that; Obama is NOT rendered as the stereotypical African American, but that the colors across his face are red/white/blue an obvious reference to the statements and beliefs that he has, that he represents all of America. not just the divisions that pundits would have us believe.
Oh I love the poster. I think the poster itself is brilliant and beautiful, and I'd love to put it up somewhere. The problem that I have is with the name of the organization. Having never heard of it before, oh, today (wouldn't be the first time a cultural phenomenon has skipped Cincinnati), I have a very instinctive, very negative reaction to the word "obey". I don't "obey" anyone. And I go to the web site and I see the word "propaganda" and I think, "Hmmm, Fox News." It just seems like a mixed message to me. I don't think of "propaganda" when I think of Obama, and I don't want to. He's not about that. If you had said, "here's this poster, you should use it somewhere" I would have been like, oh, OK, I like it, it's pretty. But if you tell me that the people producing it use this word that I don't even count as part of my lexicon, I despise it so much, I'm less inclined to support it. And the point is that if people who are easily swayed in one direction or the other have as negative a reaction as I did to this one word, it could be damaging.
It's like, I understand what the guy's trying to do, but I'm still going to support the campaign directly, with what little funds I have in the first place.
Hi Tc! trapped in paramus NJ till the morning flight outta here. Man I hate Karaokee, especially in another language and you're the only white dude in the room (and all there is to dull the anguish is bud light). that said, dinner had a great view and as buffets go, pretty good but you get what you pay for... meeting(s) went great - just hope we finally get paid next week so we can sign the rest of the consultants.
after 2 hours of peer pressure (from my boss, the client, and everybody else) I finally gave in and choose to perform Lennon's imagine. Didn't seem to shake things up too much, as I did a william shatneresque spoken word version with a few pete townsand mic twirls thrown in. Also in the darkened room with oversized video screen was the client's real estate agent, a potential investor/friend of client, assistant to client, and my firm's NY area associate (last two being the estrogen contingent).
at dinner last night, i had the pleasure of sitting next to the client's son who was observing all day. smart kid who is a sophomore at st. andrew's (yes, that bastion of royalty). we chatted academics, facebook crazyness, travel around europe, and other topics as the rest got sloshed on soju and told jokes that I couldn't understand.
we'll see if there are weather delays. If there is wifi access in philly, I'll post more while waiting between flights.
boss just knocked on my door as he heads to breakfast. gotta finish packing.
Thread Central
'merikanas are so funny
does anyone have thoughts regarding my stalk puddles campaign?
i'm with n_. and i'll take it further.
it's a beatifully designed thing but, even when i look beyond the 'obey' slogan, i still SEE the graphic style borrowed from less-than-progressive - more threatening - sources. it's the only association i can make and, because it's visual, it hits me in a place that i can't think around the feeling that association gives me.
well, I can't help but think that "obey" could have been treated in a less threatening way. Bold caps, it's a command, a strong-arm tactic, no room for reading between the lines. A more sensitive approach may have been more successful.
I turned in my application for Rome today! I find out in a few weeks if I get to go... all signs point to yes, as grad students are helpful to corralling the undergrads. It's exciting to have turned it in and get the process started.
Hey guys,
May I suggest that if you find the poster questionable, and you are so inclined, to support Obama's campaign with an on-line donation as they try to get 25,000 new donors by midnight.
http://www.barackobama.com/index.php
http://www.archinect.com/forum/threads.php?id=50618_300_42_0 (bottom)
donate what you can (even $25 or less), but I would urge you to donate as it is important to show the support this campaign has, SPECIALLY BEFORE SUPER DUPER TUESDAY.
THAT i think is the beauty of the graphic, and his message...
The OBEY sticker campaign can be explained as an experiment in Phenomenology. Heidegger describes Phenomenology as "the process of letting things manifest themselves." Phenomenology attempts to enable people to see clearly something that is right before their eyes but obscured; things that are so taken for granted that they are muted by abstract observation.
The FIRST AIM OF PHENOMENOLOGY is to reawaken a sense of wonder about one's environment. The OBEY sticker attempts to stimulate curiosity and bring people to question both the sticker and their relationship with their surroundings. Because people are not used to seeing advertisements or propaganda for which the product or motive is not obvious, frequent and novel encounters with the sticker provoke thought and possible frustration, nevertheless revitalizing the viewer's perception and attention to detail. The sticker has no meaning but exists only to cause people to react, to contemplate and search for meaning in the sticker. Because OBEY has no actual meaning, the various reactions and interpretations of those who view it reflect their personality and the nature of their sensibilities.
Many people who are familiar with the sticker find the image itself amusing, recognizing it as nonsensical, and are able to derive straightforward visual pleasure without burdening themselves with an explanation. The PARANOID OR CONSERVATIVE VIEWER however may be confused by the sticker's persistent presence and condemn it as an underground cult with subversive intentions. Many stickers have been peeled down by people who were annoyed by them, considering them an eye sore and an act of petty vandalism, which is ironic considering the number of commercial graphic images everyone in American society is assaulted with daily.
Another phenomenon the sticker has brought to light is the trendy and CONSPICUOUSLY CONSUMPTIVE nature of many members of society. For those who have been surrounded by the sticker, its familiarity and cultural resonance is comforting and owning a sticker provides a souvenir or keepsake, a memento. People have often demanded the sticker merely because they have seen it everywhere and possessing a sticker provides a sense of belonging. The Giant sticker seems mostly to be embraced by those who are (or at least want to seem to be) rebellious. Even though these people may not know the meaning of the sticker, they enjoy its slightly disruptive underground quality and wish to contribute to the furthering of its humorous and absurd presence which seems to somehow be antiestablishment/societal convention. Giant stickers are both embraced and rejected, the reason behind which, upon examination reflects the psyche of the viewer. Whether the reaction be positive or negative, the stickers existence is worthy as long as it causes people to consider the details and meanings of their surroundings. In the name of fun and observation.
Shepard Fairey, 1990
Uhhhh, OK...well why not put BLXN on the sticker, if "OBEY has no actual meaning" (which is crap, by the way) and achieve what's said above?
I'm not going to give money to buy a poster from a group that calls itself "obey" anything. And I don't have the time, or the inclination, to learn about a campaign by a group that calls itself that. It's definitely a put-off, and I'm "younger".
I will, however, give money directly to Obama to spread his message of HOPE.
wow...
...i guess Shepard is right.
Sure beta, whatever. I don't care. I definitely think it could be unhelpful for people if they don't take the time to look at it, or aren't smart enough to get it. Like I said, I just don't have the time, so I'm going to stick with giving my money where it's actually useful.
Wow nothing, beta...I get what this campaign is trying to do and it's very hip and forward looking and all (although gimme a break with the Heidegger and Phenomenology), but you're just kidding yourself if you think most people will get past the literalness of the word OBEY and its 1984 connotations (and here I mean solely in connection with Obama's campaign, not any other uses of the sticker). I know, why don't you hand out the above explanation with the stickers, and people will go "Oh yeah, now I get it, now it's perfectly clear".
A-Techno, how is that puddle stalking coming by the way? What clues do you have so far? He's in the Caribean, right? And its not a well known Island, right?
Oh yea, WonderK, they aren't SMART enough to get it...
...frig all, i struggle too with the COMPANY name, the message however is quite different than a COMPANY name, as i think it is meant to challenge conventions. i would think that US as intelligent designers, would get that a graphic artist interested in poking all of us would get through, but perhaps i am too old to get it.
I believe with great conviction that Barack Obama should be the next President. I have been paying close attention to him since the Democratic convention in 2004. I feel that he is more a statesman than a politician. He was against the war when it was an unpopular position (and Hillary was for the war at that time), Obama is for energy and environmental conservation. He is for healthcare reform. Check him out for yourself www.barackobama.com Proceeds from this print go to produce prints for a large statewide poster campaign.
Thanks.
-Shepard
if anyone took a look at the poster you'd see that OBEY is not even on it, quite different than the other work he produces.
vamure, present company excluded, but frankly there are a lot of people who wouldn't get it. And given that we're trying to reach out with this campaign.....like I said, it may be unhelpful.
I think we may be wearing out our welcome talking about politics on TC, so I'm going to shut up now.
Ah crap. Somebody find a picture of 184 something, please.
one last thing; if they are NOT smart enough to get, how are they smart enough to get that it's supposedly bad?
Ok, I get it...COMPANY name. Now that I've actually looked at the site (I was just assuming that a sticker with the word OBEY was being handed out, and just saw Beta's site URL above) I change my tune a little. The poster is actually nice, and the fact that most people will not even realize it comes from a company named OBEY changes things. To quote Emily Litella "Never mind..." (see Beta, I'm probably older than you).
I personally think it comes down to the difference between the image of a presidential candidate vs. the image of a dead wrestler.
If they wanted to use a Shepard Fairey design that resonates with people as described above, I think this would have been a much better choice:
wow you guys sure got far while I was typing....
i like fairey and i like obama. so that's not what this conversation is about.
people make impressions of visual stimulus very quickly - almost pre-mentally. the 'obey' program to me is very clever, and for the reasons that fairey says.
applying the same graphic style to promote obama, however, can not help obama and can only hurt. it's simply making associations with a historic visual language that, at best, confuses people, at worst, associates obama with nefarious political situations of the past. not the way to spread a positive political message. graphic style is NOT mute and is not without content.
it especially doesn't help when many people are perfectly willing to ALREADY make plenty of negative associations about obama simply because of his name and biography.
184 is the sum of four consecutive primes (41 + 43 + 47 + 53)
SW - I agree completely with your previous comments concerning the design's graphic style. It could be construed in the wrong way if someone is just "skimming" over such a thing.
Anyway, thanks Gin for the birthday wishes. So far it's been a pretty good one. The programming (which I love doing) for my new project is coming along smoothly. I'm excited about working with both the client and my other co-workers as we all seem to be on the same page. YAY!!! I guess the test will be when we actually have the schematics to present to them.
Off to a wine tasting to finish off the evening.
Happy Birthday Suit Day, Tuna!
I like the Progress poster. I think it's hopeful, mostly, maybe a little of the zing of communism but not enough to scare anyone off.
And I'm honestly shocked to find out you guys haven't heard of obey, I thought it was as ubiquitous as "your base are belong to us" or the cats with the text (what are they called?) these days.
ha ha, those are called lolcats, i think.
actually, it's lolcatz.
Well hell, lb, I'm still trying to make out the words on late 60's psychedlelic posters...
psychedelic, that should be
I've seen the "OBEY" stickers around the city a bit, but never knew what they referred to until now. During the 2004 Republican National Convention here in NYC, I saw a lot of protesters carrying big placards with a black-and-white drawings of Bush's face above the word "OBEY". The tongue-in-cheek meaning was obvious, of course, and it gave me a good chuckle.
Speaking of the ghosts of 2004, I finally had the appointment with my shoulder doc, and my insurance company gave the green light for surgery. Since this is a pre-existing condition my doc was worried I'd get socked with a $30,000 hospital bill if the insurance company denied my claim, but it turns out my firm's group policy has no exclusions for pre-existing conditions. If they did, I wouldn't have been able to have surgery until October at the earliest. I call the surgical coordinator tomorrow to schedule the surgery, which will probably happen in about 4-6 weeks.
One of my parents will be making the trip up from North Carolina for the occasion... My mom has never been to NYC before, and my dad was here once the late 60's. So, in addition to dealing with the surgery, I'll be playing host and teaching mom or dad how to ride the subway, etc.
After the surgery, I'll be in a sling for about six weeks, and then I'll have about six months of physical therapy. And when all that is done, they'll take a look at my left shoulder and see what's wrong, if it's still bothering me then. Looks like I'm in for an interesting few months.
My deadline to apply for degree conferral is tomorrow. In order to graduate in June, I'd have to pay the school $100 and submit tons of paperwork tomorrow, and commit myself to doing lots of schoolwork between now and the end of May. With this surgery business, that simply isn't going to happen.
My BA degree has already been 14 years in the making... What's another few months? As long as I don't get too far behind, it shouldn't impact my plans to start my M.Arch. in fall 2009.
wow, parents on the subway is... somewhat tough. good luck, LiG!
I taught my parents how to use Washington's Metrorail; now they love it - it's like a game for them. Of course, our subway system is much more user-friendly than NYC's...
My parents aren't very adventuresome... These are the same ones who want me to design their retirement home based on a "French Countryside" design the got from a plan book at Home Depot, and who think Olive Garden is an authentic Italian meal. "Easy listening" was the only music I heard for the first 15 years of my life.
Assuming I'm not too sore and/or drugged up, maybe I'll be able to take them to a few off-the-beaten-path places around town.
...the beauty in the image lies not in the obvious allusions to the familiar propagandist images of the past, it lies in the simple, and perhaps not so obvious fact that; Obama is NOT rendered as the stereotypical African American, but that the colors across his face are red/white/blue an obvious reference to the statements and beliefs that he has, that he represents all of America. not just the divisions that pundits would have us believe.
that is my interpretation.
Oh I love the poster. I think the poster itself is brilliant and beautiful, and I'd love to put it up somewhere. The problem that I have is with the name of the organization. Having never heard of it before, oh, today (wouldn't be the first time a cultural phenomenon has skipped Cincinnati), I have a very instinctive, very negative reaction to the word "obey". I don't "obey" anyone. And I go to the web site and I see the word "propaganda" and I think, "Hmmm, Fox News." It just seems like a mixed message to me. I don't think of "propaganda" when I think of Obama, and I don't want to. He's not about that. If you had said, "here's this poster, you should use it somewhere" I would have been like, oh, OK, I like it, it's pretty. But if you tell me that the people producing it use this word that I don't even count as part of my lexicon, I despise it so much, I'm less inclined to support it. And the point is that if people who are easily swayed in one direction or the other have as negative a reaction as I did to this one word, it could be damaging.
It's like, I understand what the guy's trying to do, but I'm still going to support the campaign directly, with what little funds I have in the first place.
That said, can we please keep this off of TC from now on? I think some people are getting annoyed (sorry guys).
Hey TC - In case you haven't seen Episode 6 is finally here. Yippee!!
Hi Tc! trapped in paramus NJ till the morning flight outta here. Man I hate Karaokee, especially in another language and you're the only white dude in the room (and all there is to dull the anguish is bud light). that said, dinner had a great view and as buffets go, pretty good but you get what you pay for... meeting(s) went great - just hope we finally get paid next week so we can sign the rest of the consultants.
off to bed, now that I've relaxed...
treekiller - did you walk onto the set of 'lost in translation 2'?
nice description of a very specific situation. i can picture it, and you have my sympathies.
after 2 hours of peer pressure (from my boss, the client, and everybody else) I finally gave in and choose to perform Lennon's imagine. Didn't seem to shake things up too much, as I did a william shatneresque spoken word version with a few pete townsand mic twirls thrown in. Also in the darkened room with oversized video screen was the client's real estate agent, a potential investor/friend of client, assistant to client, and my firm's NY area associate (last two being the estrogen contingent).
at dinner last night, i had the pleasure of sitting next to the client's son who was observing all day. smart kid who is a sophomore at st. andrew's (yes, that bastion of royalty). we chatted academics, facebook crazyness, travel around europe, and other topics as the rest got sloshed on soju and told jokes that I couldn't understand.
we'll see if there are weather delays. If there is wifi access in philly, I'll post more while waiting between flights.
boss just knocked on my door as he heads to breakfast. gotta finish packing.
ciao!
anyone read this piece?
intriguing.
Wow TC got all political for a sec..
Also, Happy B-day Tuna.
Finally, LIG great news on the shoulder. It is about time you got that looked at.
had to share this on here, its from last night's Boston meetup:
Diagram Master with a Quilian Riano shirt and Frank Lloyd Mike in a Pixelwhore shirt...
Pixel, that is HILARIOUS!!!! Thank you so much for posting it! You guys are so cute (and creative)!!
Are they going to start selling those shirts on here?
the archinect 'people that have too much free time' T-shirt series? interesting...
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