..the defensive, keep McBush on the defensive. he needs to talk about Supreme Court, FISA, Patriot Act, the 4th Amendment...the virtues of Pac-Man over Ms. Pac-Man...and whether or not Donkey Kong was another tool for bashing Italians....oh, and will there be a Sopranos movie?
tunamelt - no, was never a history major, but I've always liked the subject, particularly American history, and, being Italian, the American West even more (it's no accident that an Italian director made some of the best westerns) :) Am just now reading "Blood and Thunder: The Epic Story of Kit Carson and the Conquest of the American West" by Hampton Sides and liking it very much.
It's time for everyone to read (re-read) Jared Diamond's "Collapse." Maybe Obama will have Saturday-night radio book-reading sessions -- the Fireside Chat for the new century ? Followed by video game reviews ?
Ive been pretty critical of Obama where I believe its been due. I think ethenol is a mid-america panderfest and a misguided diversion from real solutions. His stance on gay-marriage is pretty pallid, I mean Civil Unions are at least a step in the right direction, but this seems like a pretty clear civil rights issue he just isnt going far enough on. Though his platform is pretty clear, he doesnt talk enough about cancer research or even the environment, which should seem like an easy win for him.
I understand part of general elections is playing to the middle, but people respect backbone too. I think especially a big push on energy policy, talking about real investment in renewable energy, talking about conservation and regulation, and talking earnestly about the relationship between oil independence and the middle east and just how incoherent McCain is on this could really box McCain out of the only turf in which he has a prayer of looking like a reformer.
As far as campaigning goes, I do think obama has legitimate work to do in that low-income, rustbelt demographic. As blown out of proportion as the 'bitter' comment was, it was an incredibly stupid thing to say. Its easy for us to say from our little ivory tower here that they should know Obama is leagues ahead of McCain on issues that actually affect their lives, but the reality is most americans are sitting around at night reading policy manifests on websites. Its a gut thing for most people, and if he really wants to win places like Ohio and Virgina hes got to go there and show people who he really is and that he understands their world and whats important to them.
Worse than that even, and Ive commented on this before, is his tendency to get complacent when he feels like hes ahead. It hurt him in New Hampshire, it hurt him in Texas and Ohio, and played a huge part in just how long this has dragged on. That cool-as-a-cucumber thing helps when things get crazy, but he cant let that kind of thing set in in November.
And now that it is done, I'll finally say this about Clinton: yes, she did blow the primary, through her damn sense of self-importance and entitlement, by thinking it would be all over by Super-Tuesday, by not finding the right message immediately, by having friggin' Bill making his stupid comments, and by countless other mistakes....and Obama ran an amazing campaign.
But if you listened to her concession speech today and didn't hear someone who really cares about this country and her service to it and wants to improve it...well, then...."te saluto, Don Corleone."
(damn, I gotta stop these Godfather references...)
I can't really tell if any politician is sincere in what they say -- but I have a good feeling about Obama, based as much by what he DOESN'T say as by anything else. He's no blowhard. . .
while Gore's name is being passed around for VP, I wonder if it would be the ULTIMATE magnanimous move for Obama to take the VP slot to GORE with the understanding that Obama would be the candidate in 2012. Gore-Obama'08?
Well, that would be something. Appropriate, certainly, in the bigger scheme of things. I'm afraid I think Gore doesn't want it -- but I'd love to be proved wrong.
definitely a shocker...58 isn't so old these days. meet the press is one of the few political interview shows that hasn't yet descended into regular yelling matches.
i saw him give the commencement address at my girlfriend's graduation from St. Joseph's in '05, it was very cool.
Ok, so I will admit, I have stayed AWAY from this thread because it was just a bit much for me, but now I have an HONEST question. I am not trying to start anything, rile anyone, be a troll, ect, but I came across [url=http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20080228_The_Elephant_in_the_Room__Obama__A_harsh_ideologue_hidden_by_a_feel-good_image.html]this[/rul] article online today, and maybe its because I'm a new mom, but it REALLY bothers me. Am I over-reacting?
More often than not, and especially given the rather poor timing of your know-it-all commentary, statements like your last one serve as the definition of a pain in the ass.
no, seriously, look at the source of that article; rick santorum is mr. arch-conservative. of course, it's going to have a conservative bias. similar to obama supporters backing up every argument in support of the obamanator with opinion pieces from the daily kos, you can't really trust any of these "news" sources. we live in an age of spin rather than an age of unbiased reporting. it is sad to lose the few people like tim russert who were above this sort of pandering to people's fears.
all i can say, Sarah, is consider the source. (and congratulations on becoming a mother, btw!)
the fact is, former Senator Rick Santorum wrote that piece, and it reads like typical Santorum rhetoric. (projection = Santorum calling Obama a "harsh idelogue") this is an intolerant man who has equated homosexuality to bestiality.
i don't doubt that the votes in question took place, but i don't believe this opinion article tells the whole story, nor should it be taken as objective journalism from an impartial, unbiased or non-partisan source.
Well thank you for explaining the 'spin' thing. I'm not up on politics, and have no idea who Santorum is, well, outside of what you have just explained.
And sorry for screwing up the link. Thanks for finding it anyway.
i didn't see that Santorum had written it until i finished reading; i wasn't surprised to find that out, though. it does help to know who is putting out the info.
and as you say, if you're not up on politics it can be difficult to know where to get real, objective content on what the hell is actually going on, politically or otherwise...which is why Tim Russert will be missed. he wasn't perfect, but he gave the guests a chance to say their peace, but then held them accountable for their words with a respectable amount of criticism.
Beyond that its just blatantly untrue. He worked across the isle on nuclear non-proliferation and immigration and ethics reform and college funding and most of his major contributions.
Rick Santorum, while he was senator , wrote an editorial in the Washington Times that said intelligent design "is a legitimate scientific theory that should be taught in science classes."
[b]At the beginning of the year, President Bush signed into law the "No Child Left Behind" bill. The new law includes a science education provision where Congress states that "where topics are taught that may generate controversy (such as biological evolution), the curriculum should help students to understand the full range of scientific views that exist." If the Education Board of Ohio does not include intelligent design in the new teaching standards, many students will be denied a first-rate science education. Many will be left behind."
It's hilarious. Then he changed his position when he was running for reelection against Bob Casey in 2005. Running a 19th century platform in the 21st century didn't poll well so he flip-flopped his position. Santorum lost to Casey by over 10 percentage points.
Actually, as I have said before, Barack Obama is the ideological heir to downstate Illinois senator Paul Simon. Like Simon, Obama has worked extensively across party lines on important issues like health care for children, the taping of confessions in police lockups and fiscal accountability in Congress by creating an online database with ultra-conservative Senator Coburn of Oklahoma.
Yes, the Republicans will try to tell you that Obama is a baby killing, blah, blah, blah. Don't be afraid anymore that's why we're up to our neck in debt from occupying Iraq.
The last straw for me was FOx news calling Michelle Obama a "Baby Momma" and using that onscreen name in a graphic that ran during a hatchet job on her character.
makeA, don't forget Faux News' e.d. hill's recent comment about an Obama fist bump being a "terrorist fist jab". frigging nonsense. and you're right -- they are counting on people being afraid this fall. hopefully some people will wake up and leave this kind of toxic politics behind. or at least there'll be less of a market for it.
She went to Princeton on a scholarship and Harvard Law School. And her father worked for the City. She hasn't had the time to sit around eating bon-bons and doing vicadin.
So looks like Obamas winning the swing states,.. actually,.. all of them.
According to realclearpolitics that so far that gives him New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Iowa, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Oregon, Missouri, Colorado, New Mexico, Virgina, and Florida, with McCain clinging onto Nevada and North Carolina by like 2 points.
Im no electoral mathematician, but that seems good.
Most of the polls don't even take into account all the newly-registered voters, which has been a major effort of the Obama campaign.
I'm cautiously optimistic that Obama will drink McCain's milkshake in November, but I'd hate to see us get complacent... See what happened to Hillary and Guiliani when they assumed they would coast to victory. Regardless of what the polls say, we still need to campaign as if we're down by ten points. November is still several months away, and a lot could happen between now and then.
I dont have overconfidence at all about this, the guy still has some huge hurdles and a 6 point margin nationally doesnt give me much comfort. Republicans are fucked but McCain is a cagey old bastard, and I dont have an overwhelming sense of confidence that people will see though bullshit like offshore drilling and this undefined "Victory" rhetorical mindlessness.
Here's a nice chain email to forward to all your wingnut friends, courtesy of Daily Kos:
> -------- Original Message --------
>
>
> From: [Redacted]
> To: [Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[ Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],
> Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd:[Fwd: Re: [Fwd:[Fwd: Re: [Fwd:[Fwd: Re: [Fwd:WHO IS BARACK OBAMA?
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
>
>
> From: [Redacted]
> To:[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[ Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],
> Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd:[Fwd: Re: [Fwd:[Fwd: Re: [Fwd:[Fwd: Re: [Fwd:WHO IS BARACK OBAMA?
>
> There are many things people do not know about BARACK OBAMA. It is every American's duty to read this message and pass it along to all of their friends and loved ones.
>
> Barack Obama wears a FLAG PIN at all times. Even in the shower.
>
> Barack Obama says the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE every time he sees an American flag. He also ends every sentence by saying, "WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL." Click here for video of Obama quietly mouthing the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE in his sleep.
>
> A tape exists of Michelle Obama saying the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE at a conference on PATRIOTISM.
>
> Every weekend, Barack and Michelle take their daughters HUNTING.
>
> Barack Obama is a PATRIOTIC AMERICAN. He has one HAND over his HEART at all times. He occasionally switches when one arm gets tired, which is almost never because he is STRONG.
>
> Barack Obama has the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE tattooed on his stomach. It's upside-down, so he can read it while doing sit-ups.
>
> There's only one artist on Barack Obama's iPod: FRANCIS SCOTT KEY.
>
> Barack Obama is a DEVOUT CHRISTIAN. His favorite book is the BIBLE, which he has memorized. His name means HE WHO LOVES JESUS in the ancient language of Aramaic. He is PROUD that Jesus was an American.
>
> Barack Obama goes to church every morning. He goes to church every afternoon. He goes to church every evening. He is IN CHURCH RIGHT NOW.
>
> Barack Obama's new airplane includes a conference room, a kitchen, and a MEGACHURCH.
>
> Barack Obama's skin is the color of AMERICAN SOIL.
>
> Barack Obama buys AMERICAN STUFF. He owns a FORD, a BASEBALL TEAM, and a COMPUTER HE BUILT HIMSELF FROM AMERICAN PARTS. He travels mostly by FORKLIFT.
>
> Barack Obama says that Americans cling to GUNS and RELIGION because they are AWESOME
>
VOTE OBAMA
..the defensive, keep McBush on the defensive. he needs to talk about Supreme Court, FISA, Patriot Act, the 4th Amendment...the virtues of Pac-Man over Ms. Pac-Man...and whether or not Donkey Kong was another tool for bashing Italians....oh, and will there be a Sopranos movie?
"and whether or not Donkey Kong was another tool for bashing Italians"
LOL!!
"Carmela, there's not more f'in capagool!!!"
LOL! Thank you e for the link. It finally helped clear that one up Third time is always the charm isn't it.
Emilio - were you at one time a History major? :o)
tunamelt - no, was never a history major, but I've always liked the subject, particularly American history, and, being Italian, the American West even more (it's no accident that an Italian director made some of the best westerns) :) Am just now reading "Blood and Thunder: The Epic Story of Kit Carson and the Conquest of the American West" by Hampton Sides and liking it very much.
It's time for everyone to read (re-read) Jared Diamond's "Collapse." Maybe Obama will have Saturday-night radio book-reading sessions -- the Fireside Chat for the new century ? Followed by video game reviews ?
Go Soulja Boy !
Ive been pretty critical of Obama where I believe its been due. I think ethenol is a mid-america panderfest and a misguided diversion from real solutions. His stance on gay-marriage is pretty pallid, I mean Civil Unions are at least a step in the right direction, but this seems like a pretty clear civil rights issue he just isnt going far enough on. Though his platform is pretty clear, he doesnt talk enough about cancer research or even the environment, which should seem like an easy win for him.
I understand part of general elections is playing to the middle, but people respect backbone too. I think especially a big push on energy policy, talking about real investment in renewable energy, talking about conservation and regulation, and talking earnestly about the relationship between oil independence and the middle east and just how incoherent McCain is on this could really box McCain out of the only turf in which he has a prayer of looking like a reformer.
As far as campaigning goes, I do think obama has legitimate work to do in that low-income, rustbelt demographic. As blown out of proportion as the 'bitter' comment was, it was an incredibly stupid thing to say. Its easy for us to say from our little ivory tower here that they should know Obama is leagues ahead of McCain on issues that actually affect their lives, but the reality is most americans are sitting around at night reading policy manifests on websites. Its a gut thing for most people, and if he really wants to win places like Ohio and Virgina hes got to go there and show people who he really is and that he understands their world and whats important to them.
Worse than that even, and Ive commented on this before, is his tendency to get complacent when he feels like hes ahead. It hurt him in New Hampshire, it hurt him in Texas and Ohio, and played a huge part in just how long this has dragged on. That cool-as-a-cucumber thing helps when things get crazy, but he cant let that kind of thing set in in November.
"most americans arent sitting around at night reading policy manifests"
Paul. Seriously, what the fuck. EDIT FEATURE.
Really.
DA doesn't send emails to posters -- and DC finally added editing last year.
Please ?
Well, it's done......on to November.
And now that it is done, I'll finally say this about Clinton: yes, she did blow the primary, through her damn sense of self-importance and entitlement, by thinking it would be all over by Super-Tuesday, by not finding the right message immediately, by having friggin' Bill making his stupid comments, and by countless other mistakes....and Obama ran an amazing campaign.
But if you listened to her concession speech today and didn't hear someone who really cares about this country and her service to it and wants to improve it...well, then...."te saluto, Don Corleone."
(damn, I gotta stop these Godfather references...)
I can't really tell if any politician is sincere in what they say -- but I have a good feeling about Obama, based as much by what he DOESN'T say as by anything else. He's no blowhard. . .
while Gore's name is being passed around for VP, I wonder if it would be the ULTIMATE magnanimous move for Obama to take the VP slot to GORE with the understanding that Obama would be the candidate in 2012. Gore-Obama'08?
Well, that would be something. Appropriate, certainly, in the bigger scheme of things. I'm afraid I think Gore doesn't want it -- but I'd love to be proved wrong.
gore is regressive; back to the clinton era
i want change!
Wes Clark for Veep!
Snoop Dog for VP for real change!
he might be too busy for that -- doesn't he have a reality tv show these days?
tim russert died of a heart attack...
poor guy, he'll be missed... meet the press is practically my favorite show...
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/11066.html
definitely a shocker...58 isn't so old these days. meet the press is one of the few political interview shows that hasn't yet descended into regular yelling matches.
i saw him give the commencement address at my girlfriend's graduation from St. Joseph's in '05, it was very cool.
wow he looked heart attack prone thats for sure to bad he didn't go veg to save himself
I suspect you're a bit of a pain in the ass, aren't you, Antihistamine?
Ok, so I will admit, I have stayed AWAY from this thread because it was just a bit much for me, but now I have an HONEST question. I am not trying to start anything, rile anyone, be a troll, ect, but I came across [url=http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20080228_The_Elephant_in_the_Room__Obama__A_harsh_ideologue_hidden_by_a_feel-good_image.html]this[/rul] article online today, and maybe its because I'm a new mom, but it REALLY bothers me. Am I over-reacting?
just a honest observation from all the data we have
More often than not, and especially given the rather poor timing of your know-it-all commentary, statements like your last one serve as the definition of a pain in the ass.
sarah, you dare question the great obama.
no, seriously, look at the source of that article; rick santorum is mr. arch-conservative. of course, it's going to have a conservative bias. similar to obama supporters backing up every argument in support of the obamanator with opinion pieces from the daily kos, you can't really trust any of these "news" sources. we live in an age of spin rather than an age of unbiased reporting. it is sad to lose the few people like tim russert who were above this sort of pandering to people's fears.
all i can say, Sarah, is consider the source. (and congratulations on becoming a mother, btw!)
the fact is, former Senator Rick Santorum wrote that piece, and it reads like typical Santorum rhetoric. (projection = Santorum calling Obama a "harsh idelogue") this is an intolerant man who has equated homosexuality to bestiality.
i don't doubt that the votes in question took place, but i don't believe this opinion article tells the whole story, nor should it be taken as objective journalism from an impartial, unbiased or non-partisan source.
Well thank you for explaining the 'spin' thing. I'm not up on politics, and have no idea who Santorum is, well, outside of what you have just explained.
And sorry for screwing up the link. Thanks for finding it anyway.
i didn't see that Santorum had written it until i finished reading; i wasn't surprised to find that out, though. it does help to know who is putting out the info.
and as you say, if you're not up on politics it can be difficult to know where to get real, objective content on what the hell is actually going on, politically or otherwise...which is why Tim Russert will be missed. he wasn't perfect, but he gave the guests a chance to say their peace, but then held them accountable for their words with a respectable amount of criticism.
I knew baby-eating would re-enter the debate at some point. (see the last post on the first page of the thread)
Al Gore will be formally endorsing Obama tonight in Michigan.
Sarah,
Beyond that its just blatantly untrue. He worked across the isle on nuclear non-proliferation and immigration and ethics reform and college funding and most of his major contributions.
Rick Santorum, while he was senator , wrote an editorial in the Washington Times that said intelligent design "is a legitimate scientific theory that should be taught in science classes."
http://www.arn.org/docs/ohio/washtimes_santorum031402.htm
[b]At the beginning of the year, President Bush signed into law the "No Child Left Behind" bill. The new law includes a science education provision where Congress states that "where topics are taught that may generate controversy (such as biological evolution), the curriculum should help students to understand the full range of scientific views that exist." If the Education Board of Ohio does not include intelligent design in the new teaching standards, many students will be denied a first-rate science education. Many will be left behind."
It's hilarious. Then he changed his position when he was running for reelection against Bob Casey in 2005. Running a 19th century platform in the 21st century didn't poll well so he flip-flopped his position. Santorum lost to Casey by over 10 percentage points.
Actually, as I have said before, Barack Obama is the ideological heir to downstate Illinois senator Paul Simon. Like Simon, Obama has worked extensively across party lines on important issues like health care for children, the taping of confessions in police lockups and fiscal accountability in Congress by creating an online database with ultra-conservative Senator Coburn of Oklahoma.
Yes, the Republicans will try to tell you that Obama is a baby killing, blah, blah, blah. Don't be afraid anymore that's why we're up to our neck in debt from occupying Iraq.
The last straw for me was FOx news calling Michelle Obama a "Baby Momma" and using that onscreen name in a graphic that ran during a hatchet job on her character.
all the more reason not to use Myspace
makeA, don't forget Faux News' e.d. hill's recent comment about an Obama fist bump being a "terrorist fist jab". frigging nonsense. and you're right -- they are counting on people being afraid this fall. hopefully some people will wake up and leave this kind of toxic politics behind. or at least there'll be less of a market for it.
michelle described barack as 'my baby's daddy' during a speech
Oh my gosh! The innapropriateness!
Maybe Michelle isn't up on her gangsta lingo ?
She went to Princeton on a scholarship and Harvard Law School. And her father worked for the City. She hasn't had the time to sit around eating bon-bons and doing vicadin.
Or learning the Crank Dat dance. . .?
who gives a fuck if fox news calls her 'baby mama'?
oh my gosh! the audacity!
Baby mama, as I now understand it, means "the unwed mother of [my] child." Not too flattering. . .
as opposed to papa's wifey
So looks like Obamas winning the swing states,.. actually,.. all of them.
According to realclearpolitics that so far that gives him New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Iowa, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Oregon, Missouri, Colorado, New Mexico, Virgina, and Florida, with McCain clinging onto Nevada and North Carolina by like 2 points.
Im no electoral mathematician, but that seems good.
BLOWOUT
Most of the polls don't even take into account all the newly-registered voters, which has been a major effort of the Obama campaign.
I'm cautiously optimistic that Obama will drink McCain's milkshake in November, but I'd hate to see us get complacent... See what happened to Hillary and Guiliani when they assumed they would coast to victory. Regardless of what the polls say, we still need to campaign as if we're down by ten points. November is still several months away, and a lot could happen between now and then.
word
I dont have overconfidence at all about this, the guy still has some huge hurdles and a 6 point margin nationally doesnt give me much comfort. Republicans are fucked but McCain is a cagey old bastard, and I dont have an overwhelming sense of confidence that people will see though bullshit like offshore drilling and this undefined "Victory" rhetorical mindlessness.
Still, its a nice position to start from.
Here's a nice chain email to forward to all your wingnut friends, courtesy of Daily Kos:
> -------- Original Message --------
>
>
> From: [Redacted]
> To: [Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[ Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],
> Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd:[Fwd: Re: [Fwd:[Fwd: Re: [Fwd:[Fwd: Re: [Fwd:WHO IS BARACK OBAMA?
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
>
>
> From: [Redacted]
> To:[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[ Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],[Redacted],
> Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd:[Fwd: Re: [Fwd:[Fwd: Re: [Fwd:[Fwd: Re: [Fwd:WHO IS BARACK OBAMA?
>
> There are many things people do not know about BARACK OBAMA. It is every American's duty to read this message and pass it along to all of their friends and loved ones.
>
> Barack Obama wears a FLAG PIN at all times. Even in the shower.
>
> Barack Obama says the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE every time he sees an American flag. He also ends every sentence by saying, "WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL." Click here for video of Obama quietly mouthing the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE in his sleep.
>
> A tape exists of Michelle Obama saying the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE at a conference on PATRIOTISM.
>
> Every weekend, Barack and Michelle take their daughters HUNTING.
>
> Barack Obama is a PATRIOTIC AMERICAN. He has one HAND over his HEART at all times. He occasionally switches when one arm gets tired, which is almost never because he is STRONG.
>
> Barack Obama has the DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE tattooed on his stomach. It's upside-down, so he can read it while doing sit-ups.
>
> There's only one artist on Barack Obama's iPod: FRANCIS SCOTT KEY.
>
> Barack Obama is a DEVOUT CHRISTIAN. His favorite book is the BIBLE, which he has memorized. His name means HE WHO LOVES JESUS in the ancient language of Aramaic. He is PROUD that Jesus was an American.
>
> Barack Obama goes to church every morning. He goes to church every afternoon. He goes to church every evening. He is IN CHURCH RIGHT NOW.
>
> Barack Obama's new airplane includes a conference room, a kitchen, and a MEGACHURCH.
>
> Barack Obama's skin is the color of AMERICAN SOIL.
>
> Barack Obama buys AMERICAN STUFF. He owns a FORD, a BASEBALL TEAM, and a COMPUTER HE BUILT HIMSELF FROM AMERICAN PARTS. He travels mostly by FORKLIFT.
>
> Barack Obama says that Americans cling to GUNS and RELIGION because they are AWESOME
>
>OBAMA will put a BOOT in your ASS, it's the AMERICAN way!!!
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