The days of becoming an architect without a college-level formal education is nearly extinct in many states where you can't possibly get licensed in that state without a college level formal education in architecture.
Due to those reasons, plus architectural firms not interested in teaching at all. Most just want to assign you tasks and you do it. With that in mind, most firms want people with degrees (NAAB accredited preferred).
ah, so no GSD superstar status in your future then? The reality is in most of the world, you need formal accredited education if you want a chance at a job. There are no shortcuts.
Architecture can be broadly defined - what is your career or professional end game? - do you want to be an entrepreneur such as a future business owner? - A real estate developer? - A project consultant? - A design-build contractor? - An instructor? - Front an architectural and/or planning firm? - Be a registered architect? - architects can be consultants much like consulting engineers (classified as Architects-of-Record) where they provide drawings and seal your projects - if you want to be a residential or interior designer then you can be self-taught as a non-traditional student as many of us are - talk to us ...
That is where do you want your career "Wheel of Fortune" to stop? - create an Educational Plan to follow - I wish you good luck on your life journey ...
You can self teach architecture if you have a core background of consruction knoweldge, building knowledge or anything similar. Otherwise I dont see how you can learn architecture without that core basic knowlege. You have to learn the rules, to break the rules, thats what Architcture is, knowing the rules of building materials and how to manipulate them into space. Also a big part of becoming an archiect is learning the ropes and paying your dues, usually working for other architects, so dont see how you can develop that craft by yourself. Maybe you can be a fiverr archiect, but nobody in the real world will hire you.
hm i think i am getting a handle on material space; architecture mainly existed as a political and social experiment, it was also my father's profession.
increased familiarity in materials in my case, and in this generation would be materials engineering. training graph neural networks to predict novel structures. i think that is as real world as it gets. with wood engineering trees to capture more carbon, with floors, perhaps integrating photovoltaics directly into the substrate, engineering bacteria to construct self-calcifying systems.
i think that actual building would look something like constructing a social condition. i mean facebook in 2004 was pretty neat. now it's just getting ready for its metamorphosis as a general AI company. we'll see how that pans out. but there's a lot of detritus that the platform has left in its departure. in that there are probably lots of situations to construct. i mean using the buildings that are readily available to the public; whether that is a laundromat, corner donut shop, elementary school
grounds.
My grandfather was an engineer who designed many buildings in the craftsman style - both him, my grandmother and father an engineer were self taught architects - they in turn taught me stuff, mid century houses. I did go to college for architecture get an M.arch and 17 years so far in practice.
I did most of, but didn't complete, a 2-year architectural technology certificate and had a decent career including eventually getting licensed. I think this is about as close as one can get to being self-taught and actually working in architecture (in modern times).
I DON'T recommend doing it this way if you have other options! It was very hard the whole time; I didn't have nearly the career success people with the degrees had, and it ended in debilitating burnout.
Jan 7, 25 1:18 am ·
·
Non Sequitur
Atelier, the OP is likely in USA given their earlier request about the number of groupies GSD grads get. Are there any official self-study paths?
Basically, if you pursue licensure in a state where you can get licensed without a degree. So you would be complementing your working hours under an architect with self-directed learning or some hybrid of self-directed learning and mentor/apprenticeship style learning.
None are officially referred to as self-study path to licensure. You don't get academic credit in the licensing but you do need to basically do it to improve your ability to work and do the tasks at work and also prepare for the ARE exam. You need to learn the stuff in some fashion.
In architecture school, you might be able to take some sort of "directed study" course but you don't get degrees in most schools by self-study.
Jan 7, 25 8:52 am ·
·
atelier nobody
NS, there is nothing in the US comparable to the RAIC Syllabus. Licensure requirements vary from State to State, with some States where no accredited degree = no license, no discussion; and others (like California, where I am) where work experience can be substituted for education. But, work experience under a licensed architect is always required, so the issue is whether one could get an entry-level job without formal education - in theory, this is possible if one can convince an architect to hire them, but in practice I don't know of any firms that would look at anyone without at least some community or technical college. Not like the old days when you could get a job with just high school drafting.
Since the days of FLW maybe not possible anymore, practically. But there are modern examples outside of north america. Heatherwick is probably the most famous non architect lately. Used to be Ando.
When I first moved to Japan in mid-90s 50% of my office did not go to uni for architecture license. They worked for 7 years and took the exam. Nominally a version of that is still possible as far as I know, but I dont know anyone who would consider it lately. The ecosystem is not what it used to be and finding a professional path is harder than ever no matter the regulations.
FWIW, Ando's twin brother is a real estate developer and he grew up with some amount of social privilege that made things more possible. The moral of his story I think is less that hard work can take you anywhere and more that being born into the right family can change everything. Ando still worked hard and did a lot of important things, like going to Europe in the 60s to teach himself about modernism. But that was not a normal working class option at the time. With inequality much worse now I cant help think it is harder than ever to do anything outside of the system without having someone at your back pulling strings. If not government then family. If not family, then who?
I think you could argue too that both FLW and Heatherwick aren't exactly self-taught. FLW studied civil engineering [without graduating] and apprenticed under a famous and influential architect who was university-trained. Heatherwick has a post graduate degree in design [not specifically architecture] and was quite intentional in coming into architecture from an outside perspective. Both were educated in design outside of traditional architecture programs, but not really self-taught.
Jan 8, 25 6:30 am ·
·
Non Sequitur
Also, self taught back then was a little more work than googling while sitting on the bowl.
very true. It was an apprenticeship in the case of FLW. As I recall he dropped out of university after one year because he thought his professors were stupid. Then jumped around through several firms before getting to Sullivan/Adler and being fired for moonlighting. Seems like that job is the one that really gave him his ideas about architecture.
So I guess that is one way to do it.
Heatherwick is trained in design, just not architecture. That is definitely not normal. He doesnt treat his buildings like industrial design projects so he must have worked things out somehow along the way on his own?
I'm not sure where Ando learned his trade. He studied with a carpenter supposedly, but I can't say if he ever worked in an office or not. It is not part of his common mythology. He certainly never got a license, though that is less of an issue in Japan even today.
Are you planning on getting famous? Go the Lenny Kravitz way, the Ye way, or that dopey Karin Rashid way……..all points to dilettantish shiite.
Jan 13, 25 11:26 am ·
·
t a z
I choose the Brad Pitt way - be famous then hang out in FOG's studio.
Jan 13, 25 11:31 am ·
·
mari-net
ye is the most confusing person to work with, the reach and the reach of your ideas will obviously be amplified by his platform but in the end you feel empty.
Sometimes there are Natural Born Architects - you see this in musicians, artist, inventors, writers, film makers, industrial designers, and a multitude of others - native talent is given to you by the Great Spirit - in these creative callings and dreams the first order of business to to have the courage to be venerable as this is all part of the "game" - chart your on course at all levels - the only person you can really depend on is your inner self - Janis Joplin said "you only need to one thing well in life" ...
There were elements of self-exploration / travelling , thinking or romanticising about the past /future of architecture during our formal architecture education ( university) too i guess? It was the case for me anyway . And that , to me , was a “self- taught” part that some of us have experienced. Same with Ando or FLW …then of course the real/tangible part of learning in architectural practice which would always going to be a lifetime endeavour ( well.. yntil we am all it quit)
Jan 8, 25 2:36 pm ·
·
mari-net
yeah i think learning about the profession at first can be very romantic.
I'm mostly self-taught in architectural design and drafting, but I wouldn't recommend it if you're serious about the profession. I also had an early, strong interest in construction, earned a BS in engineering with a minor in art/arch history, have 10-20 years of experience on the construction end (depending on how you want to count it) and picked up pieces from colleagues here and there. I have never worked under an architect. I am successful and well-known in my niche, but at 51yo, I find daily that I would be much further ahead by now if I had worked at a good architecture firm. Architecture school probably would have helped as well.
If you think about it, architecture is one of the most "self-taught" careers, undergrad is to guide you to learn to observe, and it gives you a basic set of rules and techniques, but there is no "correct" answer if you will, you are supposed to find "your voice" and to develop your own set of principles from which you inform your projects.
Very few people in the U.S. or most developed countries are purely self-taught. Most people have some schooling. Even that which comes BEFORE college/university. We tend to disregard it but actually if you do learn the fundamental skills that elementary school through high school teaches you, you should be equipped with the technical skills needed to direct your own further learning. That is what college is, anyway. It isn't the start. It is a intermediate point in a journey.
You can learn what you need to learn architecture skills through the various skills you may have learned in school. Yes, we learned to draw with rulers and such, (the kind of skill needed for drafting) in those math classes involving geometry and graph paper. Sure, it goes further with further study, of course. You fill in that extra from that point. We learn about art often with the school arts and crafts. Sure, with further education and or mentorship guidance (informal tutelage and further practice) you learn and develop artistic skills which comes handy in architecture. In reality, it is always a bit of a hybrid of didactic and autodidactic learning. College is always begins with a self-directed commitment to undergo the journey. Learning architecture in an alternative methodology to college is still a commitment to undergo the journey (that is to learn the subject matter and the knowledge and skills associated to achieve the personal and professional/occupational/career goal(s). Even changing course in the journey may happen. It's not written in stone. We are people not rocks.
Architectural licensing is a different beast. Most states requires accredited learning from an accredited educational institution. Why? They require peer review. Not peer review like between students. They require a process of evaluation by those that are arguably equipped with the knowledge and skill but more importantly responsibility to evaluate that you learn the subject matter and the knowledge & skills. This is done by review of assignments, grading, assessments, etc. So that you demonstrate it. If you do it for yourself, not assessed. Sure, you might end up with the aptitude of subject matter understanding, the knowledge & skills. Some states accepts experience in lieu of college degrees. This is because in a work place, an employee is always assessed. Albeit not quite like a college or university but if an employer takes you on, they take on a commitment to facilitate some kind of guided mentorship and supervision but the employee takes on the responsibility to learn, listen, and improve or the employer may terminate that employment. I know as a building designer, you have a duty to yourself to learn and improve because if you are substandard, you get a bad reputation and that can be functionally a career ender. If you find yourself questioning your commitment to learn and improve, then it is time to consider doing something else.
Nothing in the response in meant to imply anything on JLC-1. It is speaking broadly to a broad audience not to direct or infer anything. Just covering any basis of misinterpretation on that front.
To clarify, " If you find yourself questioning your commitment to learn and improve, then it is time to consider doing something else.":
This is meant as a general advice about when it is time in some people's lives that they should quit and get out before they do harm to others. As a profession, we, too, have an obligation sort of like the Hippocratic oath principle of "do no harm". The obligation of professionalism means we need to always improve ourselves and learn. When that is getting too tiresome even if it isn't the root cause but a symptom means we get tired or burned out and in effect we don't have the passion to learn and improve, eventually it will hurt someone. Harm someone. Our clients. The public. You name it. There is a time to get out and best to do that before you harmed. That's the fundamental deeper meaning to what I was meaning by it.
Jan 11, 25 12:21 am ·
·
mari-net
self teaching would ultimately be a fruitless endeavor if done in a vacuum. i think you raise some valid perspectives. to practice architecture for the sake of it would be quite selfish. especially in a profession built around producing durable 50+ year artifacts. thanks for the response.
Jan 12, 25 4:12 pm ·
·
BluecornGroup
Maybe "nontraditional learning" might be a better term - you can't really "teach" yourself as a practical matter - remote (Internet) instruction is what I consider nontraditional learning and we are seeing accredited online architectural degrees that have professional merit - all knowledge is available online ...
Self-directed learning is one I might use but nontraditional is an apt way and can imply learning something and setting the course of the learning curriculum journey but like mari-met said, you can't self-learn in an absolute vacuum. You always will need the involvement of others before you to teach or even guide you. Learning from outside the field and subject matter can equip you with ability to self-direct your path in learning something new. The notion of someone learning everything absolutely self-taught without others is a myth. When someone writes a book designed to inform and you might say educate, they are teaching others but not necessarily with dry erase boards, and up front lecture speeches. That's the book itself does. The reader becomes the voice to the written 'speech'. Therefore the reader who is the student becomes the speaker-lecturer voice to him or her self. We now, have new mediums like youtube videos that are instructional.
So, my learning is both didactic and autodidactic and in many parts of it, is self-directed. Part out of necessity. Part out of the desire. It's not some mythical nonsense of learning it all without others. It is learning in ways other than traditional classrooms for some of what I learned. No one is self-taught in the absolute purest sense of it. If you are self-driven and motivated, you can chart your learning but you never learn something that never involved someone else.
Online architecture education is more modeled around traditional learning environment and model of instruction. You have a teacher. There is involvement of a course teacher or instructor. There is interactive communication along the lines. It is somewhat non-traditional in the sense that you aren't all meeting in the same room physically with the other students to listen to the instructor teach.
However, nontraditional learning extends even further where it isn't done at a college. In these cases, even the student isn't learning the subject in some void. The authors of the books and videos. For example, you could say one of my first instructor or teacher in computer programming was Jim Butterfield. It wasn't because he taught or instructed me in the traditional teacher in a classroom or even a direct apprenticeship. He wrote to teach and even back in the day, did videos on VHS that was instructional. You get those or even just the books he wrote, they taught because they were informative and had substance of information in the subject matter and was approachable to learn. A rare and exceptional writer for someone in the computer programming field which often are great at programming but horrid at communication, writing, etc. In ways, you can learn the various subjects in the realm of architecture, likewise.
mari-net, to further respond, nothing I wrote is meant to encourage or discourage self-directed learning. There are problems you may get in that 'education' being recognized and given credit for licensing regardless of the quality of outcome of your understanding. You can pursue an area of architecture that doesn't require licensure but there are certain, you might say legal "game" rules to follow but I won't go into that here but that deals with title use and how you verbally describe your services to prospective and actual clients. Stuff like that.
i'm going to check jim butterfield out. this is definitely up my alley. i have been fascinated with the period between the minicomputer and the personal computer. jim butterfield is one of those figures who played a role in growing a generation to what it is now today. to tell you what i've been doing, i am stretching the definition of self teaching. there is youtube - but nowadays you can also clone an architect, teacher or anyone really and have an AI print-out some semblance of their thoughts - it gets better with time, further layering with distinct roles function calls, it produces a unique condition for learning the rules of the game. thanks for the detailed recommendation and response!
I'm currently looking into this... I'd say the hardest part seems to navigate and organise your education plan - this should also include working in teams so it can be complicated to arrange this on your own. Still, I do believe there are creative ways you can navigate around this through experiencing the world (sort of like how the Buddhists perceive reality; like building up new neural connections in your brain to adopt this way of thinking).
I would like to argue that if you mastered this way of self-education, it would actually be the most progressive and sustainable form of architecture - on a global scale - interdisciplinary architecture seems to be the future of the practice to me, or at least until significant paradigm shifts begin to occur in this direction. For now, it seems you won't be able to get a job in architecture without a degree unless you want to play the waiting game, but if you were to teach yourself in the way I have vaguely explained then it could give you a significant advantage when you arrive at university. Also, stay up to date with cutting-edge technology, practice continuous learning across various disciplines, try to keep a psychologically "stable" mind, and good luck ,-)
As for any other constraints, the main issue is that this method is very against the grain and people will not like you very much. But architecture will be increasingly needed, especially in this style of practice, if we wish to collaborate in an effort to solve climate issues that plague the world, and much more too. Architecture as a linear practice has become excruciatingly outdated, especially with the rise of AI; now with AGI on the rise, in the holy spirit of capitalism, we must adapt and innovate to a changing world if we wish to contribute. I've got much more to say about this topic but it is extremely taboo and I don't like nosy neighbours ; ( Keep an eye out on China though, they seem to be the leading power in all things architecture and I dont see that changing anytime soon.
Jan 14, 25 1:57 am ·
·
Non Sequitur
Or… you could just go to school and test your theories against teachers and professionals. Much better than making shit up, watching YouTube, and romanticizing a profession you know little about.
Jan 14, 25 6:17 am ·
·
t a z
Has Balkins fully assimilated into AI?
Jan 14, 25 9:43 am ·
·
dx.k2
teachers and professionals didn't grow up in the same world as me, and they are also likely worried about ai stealing their jobs. i cannot afford going to architecture school, nor do I subscribe to traditional education paths and i'd like to not go in crippling debt thank u very much.
Jan 14, 25 10:09 am ·
·
dx.k2
im not sure if you quite understand the form of architecture as a practice, and how it forms in relation to society today, especially with emerging technology alongside it. i find it quite amusing you assume I know nothing of the profession... can't tell if you're just projecting or what.
Jan 14, 25 10:16 am ·
·
Non Sequitur
How convenient for you to believe that jive dx.
Jan 14, 25 10:16 am ·
·
dx.k2
PS. we still don't have AGI... so yea :) btw AI doesn't really render any profession obsolete, tbh it just makes it accessible to all, if that's what they plan on doing w it lmao
Jan 14, 25 10:18 am ·
·
Non Sequitur
Our profession will be better without your juvenile pov. \
Jan 14, 25 10:40 am ·
·
mari-net
AGI at this stage would be waste of compute. i doubt the market is ready to adapt just yet, but it would be a fun challenge to test a mixture of experts against a few professionals.
Just so people are not confused what AGI is.... artificial general intelligence. An area or type of AI. For achieving AGI at this stage, you'd need a computer system with necessary power plants the geometric volume of the moon to be safely in that realm in terms of sufficiently advances enough neural network structure simulated and at the complexity levels of the human brain. This is assuming current state-of-the-art circuitry fabrication and circuit design, etc. It would just be beyond reach at current tech level given the resources needed to build such a thing.
We can build quasi or partial AGI but really that's just AI where it surpasses humans in certain ways. In some ways, you make hybrid AI / conventional computer logic because in some ways, computers being calculating machines is far more efficient in volume and mass computation and calculation functionality than human brains which are designed for a different purpose. We also have to learn more about how different types of neurons work and how that maps to something more closely related. The next gen to AI would interweave with FPGA technologies. Reprogrammable hardware and AI on FPGA where the FPGA core is an AI hardware core that self-modifies. Adapting its purpose and functionality. Since parts of the brain is to operate functions of the body like muscles. This begin a path to a advance robotic technologies. I see possibilities along the front.
I have an FPGA system to test out an idea but certainly won't be as complex as a artificial human brain for sure. Maybe model a neural network of a handful of neurons. The element to decide is how much memory or data or information does a single neuron store.
For me, there are interesting applications that can be useful for.
Jan 14, 25 12:52 pm ·
·
dx.k2
exactly, so I don't really understand why everyone is so hostile in this community. Nobody is stealing anyone's job anytime soon. I am 19 years old and you guys are trying to discourage me in every way from achieving my dreams lmaoo. To me, architecture is no longer just a practice or profession but a way of life and moral responsibility to the world, and I can see that you do not see it this way since you feel threatened by my presence and you're discouraging me from pursuing this completely. I believe that architect is a 'label' everyone will strive for in the near future as it depicts an all-encompassing philosophy which brings meaning back to paradox. btw none of this is aimed at Balkins, you seem really chill
Jan 14, 25 6:29 pm ·
·
OddArchitect
Plugged in your post to chatgpt and I got:
Oh, absolutely, because clearly, everyone is just quaking in their boots over the threat of a 19-year-old's groundbreaking philosophy on architecture. It’s truly revolutionary to think of architecture as a "way of life"—something no one in the entire history of the profession has ever considered before. And, of course, labeling oneself as an architect will definitely become the new ultimate goal for everyone, because who wouldn’t want to be part of an all-encompassing paradox-solving elite? You're obviously way ahead of your time, and we're all just trying to hold you back out of sheer jealousy.
Jan 14, 25 6:34 pm ·
·
dx.k2
that's not what i mean!! when i say that, I am speaking directly from my own lived experience. i just want to be a part of architecture because of the potential it has, why is there anything wrong with that? and in my own idea of this, it is something democratic and not elitist lmao - the idea of an architect is to design your own life fundamentally while contributing to society in meaningful ways, why wouldn't anyone want that? I'm not saying I'm the messiah of architecture lmao, but I am a pro-activist sooo... better than starting fights I can't win on the internet
Jan 15, 25 12:01 am ·
·
dx.k2
for the record, i dont mean to offend anyone but I feel its impossible at this point. but don't you consider social challenges within your profession, or are you too concerned with your own survival? despite the fact solving social issues would further increase your chances of survival. its a team effort, neither me or you could solve them by ourselves, your only excuses for reserving yourself is either juvenoia or bourgeious...
There's a person operating the account. Whether that person is using an AI to generate the responses and then copy & paste it, it is likely the operating methodology. Otherwise, it would be having to create one kind of bot to operate the account (doesn't require sophisticated AI for that) and that bot fetches the post or comment, copy it over to the send to the second 'script' (the AI) to which it generates a response that is passed back to the bot which then posts responses. However, it is more reliable for a human to do the function of the non-AI bot script given the way the website is coded and all that (at this time).
Jan 14, 25 12:59 pm ·
·
OddArchitect
Could be. Then again, some of what mari posts is utter gibberish BS. I'm actually wondering if mari, dx.k2, and godindetails are the same person.
Possibly. The more we engage in dialogue (at our own suffering unfortunately), the more we may know and build a basis for analysis. There are ways to analyze linguistic patterns to determine probability. Never 100% proof but something that can be more like preponderance of the evidence level. Linguistic analysis and associated AI tools can be useful and there are those in actual use in government.
Jan 14, 25 1:07 pm ·
·
OddArchitect
We could figure it out. Unfortunately for them I've spent 20 minutes reading some of their posts over the past week and that's as much time I'm willing to spend.
I never said we have to spend more than 20 minutes a week, either. It isn't even a matter of much importance to me, either. I don't much care about him, either. While I mention about linguistic tools and AI tools out of informative purposes only, I do not intend that we need to utilize those tools here with regards to someone so unimportant.
Jan 14, 25 3:35 pm ·
·
OddArchitect
Oh no, 20 minutes total. That's all I'm willing to spend on punters and trolls.
smh y'all are so concerned with conducting ur own turing test lol. I'm a humennnnn dawg, I just joined this community bc I need to network if I wanna get anywhere with architecture sooooo. I'm really glad you guys are willing to dialogue though bc I currently get like no socialising in my life ever lol and this is much better than talking to AI. just pls have more of an open mind bc as you know, I am only 19 and I am in fact NOT a professional. I do not wish to deceive anyone here - also I sound like an AI bc I suck at language lol One Hell of an Autism
Jan 14, 25 6:36 pm ·
·
OddArchitect
Ah yes, the classic "I’m a human, I swear!" plea. Because nothing proves humanity like declaring it outright, right? But hey, it’s great that you’re here to network—because clearly, nothing screams "serious professional networking" like ranting about philosophy and paradoxes in a community that’s apparently trying to Turing test you. And don't worry about the language thing—your totally human struggles with communication are definitely not relatable at all. But hey, at least you’re bringing some flair to the architecture scene with all this meta talk.
self taught architecture
what are the constraints for self teaching architecture?
Getting a job.
probably true
The days of becoming an architect without a college-level formal education is nearly extinct in many states where you can't possibly get licensed in that state without a college level formal education in architecture.
Due to those reasons, plus architectural firms not interested in teaching at all. Most just want to assign you tasks and you do it. With that in mind, most firms want people with degrees (NAAB accredited preferred).
ah, so no GSD superstar status in your future then? The reality is in most of the world, you need formal accredited education if you want a chance at a job. There are no shortcuts.
i turned it down - i realize the validation that formal education brings.
Based on what you've given us here, it's highly unlikely you ever had an offer.
Yeah - I doesn't seem like mari-net was offered admission to any form of higher education. Well maybe HIGH education . . .
OddA... if I had to make a bet, I'd wager that mari-net is a reincarnation of Jawknee but with better medication.
that's funny
I wouldn't think it's funny mari-net. Jawk has some serious mental issues including committing sexual harassment of minors.
Architecture can be broadly defined - what is your career or professional end game? - do you want to be an entrepreneur such as a future business owner? - A real estate developer? - A project consultant? - A design-build contractor? - An instructor? - Front an architectural and/or planning firm? - Be a registered architect? - architects can be consultants much like consulting engineers (classified as Architects-of-Record) where they provide drawings and seal your projects - if you want to be a residential or interior designer then you can be self-taught as a non-traditional student as many of us are - talk to us ...
That is where do you want your career "Wheel of Fortune" to stop? - create an Educational Plan to follow - I wish you good luck on your life journey ...
You can self teach architecture if you have a core background of consruction knoweldge, building knowledge or anything similar. Otherwise I dont see how you can learn architecture without that core basic knowlege. You have to learn the rules, to break the rules, thats what Architcture is, knowing the rules of building materials and how to manipulate them into space. Also a big part of becoming an archiect is learning the ropes and paying your dues, usually working for other architects, so dont see how you can develop that craft by yourself. Maybe you can be a fiverr archiect, but nobody in the real world will hire you.
hm i think i am getting a handle on material space; architecture mainly existed as a political and social experiment, it was also my father's profession.
increased familiarity in materials in my case, and in this generation would be materials engineering. training graph neural networks to predict novel structures. i think that is as real world as it gets. with wood engineering trees to capture more carbon, with floors, perhaps integrating photovoltaics directly into the substrate, engineering bacteria to construct self-calcifying systems.
i think that actual building would look something like constructing a social condition. i mean facebook in 2004 was pretty neat. now it's just getting ready for its metamorphosis as a general AI company. we'll see how that pans out. but there's a lot of detritus that the platform has left in its departure. in that there are probably lots of situations to construct. i mean using the buildings that are readily available to the public; whether that is a laundromat, corner donut shop, elementary school grounds.
My grandfather was an engineer who designed many buildings in the craftsman style - both him, my grandmother and father an engineer were self taught architects - they in turn taught me stuff, mid century houses. I did go to college for architecture get an M.arch and 17 years so far in practice.
it is truly heartwarming to think how your family built in a craftsman style. i can only imagine the amount of love that was passed on to you.
I did most of, but didn't complete, a 2-year architectural technology certificate and had a decent career including eventually getting licensed. I think this is about as close as one can get to being self-taught and actually working in architecture (in modern times).
I DON'T recommend doing it this way if you have other options! It was very hard the whole time; I didn't have nearly the career success people with the degrees had, and it ended in debilitating burnout.
Atelier, the OP is likely in USA given their earlier request about the number of groupies GSD grads get. Are there any official self-study paths?
Basically, if you pursue licensure in a state where you can get licensed without a degree. So you would be complementing your working hours under an architect with self-directed learning or some hybrid of self-directed learning and mentor/apprenticeship style learning.
None are officially referred to as self-study path to licensure. You don't get academic credit in the licensing but you do need to basically do it to improve your ability to work and do the tasks at work and also prepare for the ARE exam. You need to learn the stuff in some fashion.
In architecture school, you might be able to take some sort of "directed study" course but you don't get degrees in most schools by self-study.
NS, there is nothing in the US comparable to the RAIC Syllabus. Licensure requirements vary from State to State, with some States where no accredited degree = no license, no discussion; and others (like California, where I am) where work experience can be substituted for education. But, work experience under a licensed architect is always required, so the issue is whether one could get an entry-level job without formal education - in theory, this is possible if one can convince an architect to hire them, but in practice I don't know of any firms that would look at anyone without at least some community or technical college. Not like the old days when you could get a job with just high school drafting.
whew
Since the days of FLW maybe not possible anymore, practically. But there are modern examples outside of north america. Heatherwick is probably the most famous non architect lately. Used to be Ando.
When I first moved to Japan in mid-90s 50% of my office did not go to uni for architecture license. They worked for 7 years and took the exam. Nominally a version of that is still possible as far as I know, but I dont know anyone who would consider it lately. The ecosystem is not what it used to be and finding a professional path is harder than ever no matter the regulations.
FWIW, Ando's twin brother is a real estate developer and he grew up with some amount of social privilege that made things more possible. The moral of his story I think is less that hard work can take you anywhere and more that being born into the right family can change everything. Ando still worked hard and did a lot of important things, like going to Europe in the 60s to teach himself about modernism. But that was not a normal working class option at the time. With inequality much worse now I cant help think it is harder than ever to do anything outside of the system without having someone at your back pulling strings. If not government then family. If not family, then who?
I think you could argue too that both FLW and Heatherwick aren't exactly self-taught. FLW studied civil engineering [without graduating] and apprenticed under a famous and influential architect who was university-trained. Heatherwick has a post graduate degree in design [not specifically architecture] and was quite intentional in coming into architecture from an outside perspective. Both were educated in design outside of traditional architecture programs, but not really self-taught.
Also, self taught back then was a little more work than googling while sitting on the bowl.
very true. It was an apprenticeship in the case of FLW. As I recall he dropped out of university after one year because he thought his professors were stupid. Then jumped around through several firms before getting to Sullivan/Adler and being fired for moonlighting. Seems like that job is the one that really gave him his ideas about architecture. So I guess that is one way to do it.
Heatherwick is trained in design, just not architecture. That is definitely not normal. He doesnt treat his buildings like industrial design projects so he must have worked things out somehow along the way on his own?
I'm not sure where Ando learned his trade. He studied with a carpenter supposedly, but I can't say if he ever worked in an office or not. It is not part of his common mythology. He certainly never got a license, though that is less of an issue in Japan even today.
ando is interesting.
Are you planning on getting famous? Go the Lenny Kravitz way, the Ye way, or that dopey Karin Rashid way……..all points to dilettantish shiite.
I choose the Brad Pitt way - be famous then hang out in FOG's studio.
ye is the most confusing person to work with, the reach and the reach of your ideas will obviously be amplified by his platform but in the end you feel empty.
Sometimes there are Natural Born Architects - you see this in musicians, artist, inventors, writers, film makers, industrial designers, and a multitude of others - native talent is given to you by the Great Spirit - in these creative callings and dreams the first order of business to to have the courage to be venerable as this is all part of the "game" - chart your on course at all levels - the only person you can really depend on is your inner self - Janis Joplin said "you only need to one thing well in life" ...
I can't read the first sentence and not think of the movie, "Natural Born Killers."
will bruder comes to mind, but again, a bfa and apprenticeship with paolo soleri.
there is a lot of names on this list more than i thought. i want to be an architect
A bit more recent ; David Salmela. He had a degree in drafting and became an architect via working at DSGW.
There were elements of self-exploration / travelling , thinking or romanticising about the past /future of architecture during our formal architecture education ( university) too i guess? It was the case for me anyway . And that , to me , was a “self- taught” part that some of us have experienced. Same with Ando or FLW …then of course the real/tangible part of learning in architectural practice which would always going to be a lifetime endeavour ( well.. yntil we am all it quit)
yeah i think learning about the profession at first can be very romantic.
I'm mostly self-taught in architectural design and drafting, but I wouldn't recommend it if you're serious about the profession. I also had an early, strong interest in construction, earned a BS in engineering with a minor in art/arch history, have 10-20 years of experience on the construction end (depending on how you want to count it) and picked up pieces from colleagues here and there. I have never worked under an architect. I am successful and well-known in my niche, but at 51yo, I find daily that I would be much further ahead by now if I had worked at a good architecture firm. Architecture school probably would have helped as well.
this is an honest take, wishing you more success in your career
If you think about it, architecture is one of the most "self-taught" careers, undergrad is to guide you to learn to observe, and it gives you a basic set of rules and techniques, but there is no "correct" answer if you will, you are supposed to find "your voice" and to develop your own set of principles from which you inform your projects.
Very few people in the U.S. or most developed countries are purely self-taught. Most people have some schooling. Even that which comes BEFORE college/university. We tend to disregard it but actually if you do learn the fundamental skills that elementary school through high school teaches you, you should be equipped with the technical skills needed to direct your own further learning. That is what college is, anyway. It isn't the start. It is a intermediate point in a journey.
You can learn what you need to learn architecture skills through the various skills you may have learned in school. Yes, we learned to draw with rulers and such, (the kind of skill needed for drafting) in those math classes involving geometry and graph paper. Sure, it goes further with further study, of course. You fill in that extra from that point. We learn about art often with the school arts and crafts. Sure, with further education and or mentorship guidance (informal tutelage and further practice) you learn and develop artistic skills which comes handy in architecture. In reality, it is always a bit of a hybrid of didactic and autodidactic learning. College is always begins with a self-directed commitment to undergo the journey. Learning architecture in an alternative methodology to college is still a commitment to undergo the journey (that is to learn the subject matter and the knowledge and skills associated to achieve the personal and professional/occupational/career goal(s). Even changing course in the journey may happen. It's not written in stone. We are people not rocks.
Architectural licensing is a different beast. Most states requires accredited learning from an accredited educational institution. Why? They require peer review. Not peer review like between students. They require a process of evaluation by those that are arguably equipped with the knowledge and skill but more importantly responsibility to evaluate that you learn the subject matter and the knowledge & skills. This is done by review of assignments, grading, assessments, etc. So that you demonstrate it. If you do it for yourself, not assessed. Sure, you might end up with the aptitude of subject matter understanding, the knowledge & skills. Some states accepts experience in lieu of college degrees. This is because in a work place, an employee is always assessed. Albeit not quite like a college or university but if an employer takes you on, they take on a commitment to facilitate some kind of guided mentorship and supervision but the employee takes on the responsibility to learn, listen, and improve or the employer may terminate that employment. I know as a building designer, you have a duty to yourself to learn and improve because if you are substandard, you get a bad reputation and that can be functionally a career ender. If you find yourself questioning your commitment to learn and improve, then it is time to consider doing something else.
Nothing in the response in meant to imply anything on JLC-1. It is speaking broadly to a broad audience not to direct or infer anything. Just covering any basis of misinterpretation on that front.
To clarify, " If you find yourself questioning your commitment to learn and improve, then it is time to consider doing something else.":
This is meant as a general advice about when it is time in some people's lives that they should quit and get out before they do harm to others. As a profession, we, too, have an obligation sort of like the Hippocratic oath principle of "do no harm". The obligation of professionalism means we need to always improve ourselves and learn. When that is getting too tiresome even if it isn't the root cause but a symptom means we get tired or burned out and in effect we don't have the passion to learn and improve, eventually it will hurt someone. Harm someone. Our clients. The public. You name it. There is a time to get out and best to do that before you harmed. That's the fundamental deeper meaning to what I was meaning by it.
self teaching would ultimately be a fruitless endeavor if done in a vacuum. i think you raise some valid perspectives. to practice architecture for the sake of it would be quite selfish. especially in a profession built around producing durable 50+ year artifacts. thanks for the response.
Maybe "nontraditional learning" might be a better term - you can't really "teach" yourself as a practical matter - remote (Internet) instruction is what I consider nontraditional learning and we are seeing accredited online architectural degrees that have professional merit - all knowledge is available online ...
Self-directed learning is one I might use but nontraditional is an apt way and can imply learning something and setting the course of the learning curriculum journey but like mari-met said, you can't self-learn in an absolute vacuum. You always will need the involvement of others before you to teach or even guide you. Learning from outside the field and subject matter can equip you with ability to self-direct your path in learning something new. The notion of someone learning everything absolutely self-taught without others is a myth. When someone writes a book designed to inform and you might say educate, they are teaching others but not necessarily with dry erase boards, and up front lecture speeches. That's the book itself does. The reader becomes the voice to the written 'speech'. Therefore the reader who is the student becomes the speaker-lecturer voice to him or her self. We now, have new mediums like youtube videos that are instructional.
So, my learning is both didactic and autodidactic and in many parts of it, is self-directed. Part out of necessity. Part out of the desire. It's not some mythical nonsense of learning it all without others. It is learning in ways other than traditional classrooms for some of what I learned. No one is self-taught in the absolute purest sense of it. If you are self-driven and motivated, you can chart your learning but you never learn something that never involved someone else.
Online architecture education is more modeled around traditional learning environment and model of instruction. You have a teacher. There is involvement of a course teacher or instructor. There is interactive communication along the lines. It is somewhat non-traditional in the sense that you aren't all meeting in the same room physically with the other students to listen to the instructor teach.
However, nontraditional learning extends even further where it isn't done at a college. In these cases, even the student isn't learning the subject in some void. The authors of the books and videos. For example, you could say one of my first instructor or teacher in computer programming was Jim Butterfield. It wasn't because he taught or instructed me in the traditional teacher in a classroom or even a direct apprenticeship. He wrote to teach and even back in the day, did videos on VHS that was instructional. You get those or even just the books he wrote, they taught because they were informative and had substance of information in the subject matter and was approachable to learn. A rare and exceptional writer for someone in the computer programming field which often are great at programming but horrid at communication, writing, etc. In ways, you can learn the various subjects in the realm of architecture, likewise.
mari-net, to further respond, nothing I wrote is meant to encourage or discourage self-directed learning. There are problems you may get in that 'education' being recognized and given credit for licensing regardless of the quality of outcome of your understanding. You can pursue an area of architecture that doesn't require licensure but there are certain, you might say legal "game" rules to follow but I won't go into that here but that deals with title use and how you verbally describe your services to prospective and actual clients. Stuff like that.
i'm going to check jim butterfield out. this is definitely up my alley. i have been fascinated with the period between the minicomputer and the personal computer. jim butterfield is one of those figures who played a role in growing a generation to what it is now today. to tell you what i've been doing, i am stretching the definition of self teaching. there is youtube - but nowadays you can also clone an architect, teacher or anyone really and have an AI print-out some semblance of their thoughts - it gets better with time, further layering with distinct roles function calls, it produces a unique condition for learning the rules of the game. thanks for the detailed recommendation and response!
I'm currently looking into this... I'd say the hardest part seems to navigate and organise your education plan - this should also include working in teams so it can be complicated to arrange this on your own. Still, I do believe there are creative ways you can navigate around this through experiencing the world (sort of like how the Buddhists perceive reality; like building up new neural connections in your brain to adopt this way of thinking).
I would like to argue that if you mastered this way of self-education, it would actually be the most progressive and sustainable form of architecture - on a global scale - interdisciplinary architecture seems to be the future of the practice to me, or at least until significant paradigm shifts begin to occur in this direction. For now, it seems you won't be able to get a job in architecture without a degree unless you want to play the waiting game, but if you were to teach yourself in the way I have vaguely explained then it could give you a significant advantage when you arrive at university. Also, stay up to date with cutting-edge technology, practice continuous learning across various disciplines, try to keep a psychologically "stable" mind, and good luck ,-)
As for any other constraints, the main issue is that this method is very against the grain and people will not like you very much. But architecture will be increasingly needed, especially in this style of practice, if we wish to collaborate in an effort to solve climate issues that plague the world, and much more too. Architecture as a linear practice has become excruciatingly outdated, especially with the rise of AI; now with AGI on the rise, in the holy spirit of capitalism, we must adapt and innovate to a changing world if we wish to contribute. I've got much more to say about this topic but it is extremely taboo and I don't like nosy neighbours ; ( Keep an eye out on China though, they seem to be the leading power in all things architecture and I dont see that changing anytime soon.
Or… you could just go to school and test your theories against teachers and professionals. Much better than making shit up, watching YouTube, and romanticizing a profession you know little about.
Has Balkins fully assimilated into AI?
teachers and professionals didn't grow up in the same world as me, and they are also likely worried about ai stealing their jobs. i cannot afford going to architecture school, nor do I subscribe to traditional education paths and i'd like to not go in crippling debt thank u very much.
im not sure if you quite understand the form of architecture as a practice, and how it forms in relation to society today, especially with emerging technology alongside it. i find it quite amusing you assume I know nothing of the profession... can't tell if you're just projecting or what.
How convenient for you to believe that jive dx.
PS. we still don't have AGI... so yea :) btw AI doesn't really render any profession obsolete, tbh it just makes it accessible to all, if that's what they plan on doing w it lmao
Our profession will be better without your juvenile pov. \
AGI at this stage would be waste of compute. i doubt the market is ready to adapt just yet, but it would be a fun challenge to test a mixture of experts against a few professionals.
Just so people are not confused what AGI is.... artificial general intelligence. An area or type of AI. For achieving AGI at this stage, you'd need a computer system with necessary power plants the geometric volume of the moon to be safely in that realm in terms of sufficiently advances enough neural network structure simulated and at the complexity levels of the human brain. This is assuming current state-of-the-art circuitry fabrication and circuit design, etc. It would just be beyond reach at current tech level given the resources needed to build such a thing.
We can build quasi or partial AGI but really that's just AI where it surpasses humans in certain ways. In some ways, you make hybrid AI / conventional computer logic because in some ways, computers being calculating machines is far more efficient in volume and mass computation and calculation functionality than human brains which are designed for a different purpose. We also have to learn more about how different types of neurons work and how that maps to something more closely related. The next gen to AI would interweave with FPGA technologies. Reprogrammable hardware and AI on FPGA where the FPGA core is an AI hardware core that self-modifies. Adapting its purpose and functionality. Since parts of the brain is to operate functions of the body like muscles. This begin a path to a advance robotic technologies. I see possibilities along the front.
I have an FPGA system to test out an idea but certainly won't be as complex as a artificial human brain for sure. Maybe model a neural network of a handful of neurons. The element to decide is how much memory or data or information does a single neuron store.
For me, there are interesting applications that can be useful for.
exactly, so I don't really understand why everyone is so hostile in this community. Nobody is stealing anyone's job anytime soon. I am 19 years old and you guys are trying to discourage me in every way from achieving my dreams lmaoo. To me, architecture is no longer just a practice or profession but a way of life and moral responsibility to the world, and I can see that you do not see it this way since you feel threatened by my presence and you're discouraging me from pursuing this completely. I believe that architect is a 'label' everyone will strive for in the near future as it depicts an all-encompassing philosophy which brings meaning back to paradox. btw none of this is aimed at Balkins, you seem really chill
Plugged in your post to chatgpt and I got:
Oh, absolutely, because clearly, everyone is just quaking in their boots over the threat of a 19-year-old's groundbreaking philosophy on architecture. It’s truly revolutionary to think of architecture as a "way of life"—something no one in the entire history of the profession has ever considered before. And, of course, labeling oneself as an architect will definitely become the new ultimate goal for everyone, because who wouldn’t want to be part of an all-encompassing paradox-solving elite? You're obviously way ahead of your time, and we're all just trying to hold you back out of sheer jealousy.
that's not what i mean!! when i say that, I am speaking directly from my own lived experience. i just want to be a part of architecture because of the potential it has, why is there anything wrong with that? and in my own idea of this, it is something democratic and not elitist lmao - the idea of an architect is to design your own life fundamentally while contributing to society in meaningful ways, why wouldn't anyone want that? I'm not saying I'm the messiah of architecture lmao, but I am a pro-activist sooo... better than starting fights I can't win on the internet
for the record, i dont mean to offend anyone but I feel its impossible at this point. but don't you consider social challenges within your profession, or are you too concerned with your own survival? despite the fact solving social issues would further increase your chances of survival. its a team effort, neither me or you could solve them by ourselves, your only excuses for reserving yourself is either juvenoia or bourgeious...
very appropriate commercial ads
Anyone curious if Mari-net is an AI. The responses are oddly flat and informative.
There's a person operating the account. Whether that person is using an AI to generate the responses and then copy & paste it, it is likely the operating methodology. Otherwise, it would be having to create one kind of bot to operate the account (doesn't require sophisticated AI for that) and that bot fetches the post or comment, copy it over to the send to the second 'script' (the AI) to which it generates a response that is passed back to the bot which then posts responses. However, it is more reliable for a human to do the function of the non-AI bot script given the way the website is coded and all that (at this time).
Could be. Then again, some of what mari posts is utter gibberish BS. I'm actually wondering if mari, dx.k2, and godindetails are the same person.
Even AI can generate gibberish BS. My guess is there is a human involved with that account and there maybe some chat bot involved as well.
Possibly. The more we engage in dialogue (at our own suffering unfortunately), the more we may know and build a basis for analysis. There are ways to analyze linguistic patterns to determine probability. Never 100% proof but something that can be more like preponderance of the evidence level. Linguistic analysis and associated AI tools can be useful and there are those in actual use in government.
We could figure it out. Unfortunately for them I've spent 20 minutes reading some of their posts over the past week and that's as much time I'm willing to spend.
I never said we have to spend more than 20 minutes a week, either. It isn't even a matter of much importance to me, either. I don't much care about him, either. While I mention about linguistic tools and AI tools out of informative purposes only, I do not intend that we need to utilize those tools here with regards to someone so unimportant.
Oh no, 20 minutes total. That's all I'm willing to spend on punters and trolls.
smh y'all are so concerned with conducting ur own turing test lol. I'm a humennnnn dawg, I just joined this community bc I need to network if I wanna get anywhere with architecture sooooo. I'm really glad you guys are willing to dialogue though bc I currently get like no socialising in my life ever lol and this is much better than talking to AI. just pls have more of an open mind bc as you know, I am only 19 and I am in fact NOT a professional. I do not wish to deceive anyone here - also I sound like an AI bc I suck at language lol One Hell of an Autism
Ah yes, the classic "I’m a human, I swear!" plea. Because nothing proves humanity like declaring it outright, right? But hey, it’s great that you’re here to network—because clearly, nothing screams "serious professional networking" like ranting about philosophy and paradoxes in a community that’s apparently trying to Turing test you. And don't worry about the language thing—your totally human struggles with communication are definitely not relatable at all. But hey, at least you’re bringing some flair to the architecture scene with all this meta talk.
Oh no, 20 minutes total. That's all I'm willing to spend on punters and trolls.
I agree. All they are worth is maybe 7 nanoseconds a week.
lmaooo cope ,-)
You mean your "wink and a hashtag" approach?
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.