Your ARE and LARE One Stop Shop


This thread is for assistance in taking the ARE and the LARE.

Ground rules:

No WHINNING. Don't post about Prometric screw-ups or NCARB screw-ups, just don't. If you want to bitch here are the links to do just that - and

If you really feel the need to vent and want partners to share your tears in beers then go here - - they love to call NCARB and complain about their computers sucking at Prometric test centers.

Google and Wiki are resources as well, use them with care and know that Wiki is tricky, you can't trust everything you read there.

Kaplan is where source material is bought - - keep in mind that if you have the old ALS material it will probably be the same stuff, only without the sustainable design material

For the Graphics portions check this site - - he is the man, and he'll even let you call him at home! But leave the man be or try to leave him be.

For Structures and seminars contact this man - - again his seminars are good, a little pricey but hey, you only want to take this once, right?

For LARE exam prep visit here - and here - and here - - I am sure there is more for the LARE, and perhaps the treekilla would post some links.

Other ARE source material can be found here - - alot of good things found here, and you can post things you find or put together.

Other material used for the ARE include:

....and a ton more.

Your task if you choose to accept it, is to contribute earnest and helpful information to pass these 9 or 10 exams, or however many you are taking.

One more thing, remember this one bit of IMPORTANT information - NCARB when they scour the net, they will find this thread, so don't post answers to test questions, they will hang you. If you think I am kidding, check the statement on and you'll see what I mean. They have nabbed a few people over the past year, so just be careful what you say.

Well, good luck!

Now pass me the jam!

Feb 5, 07 9:59 pm
some person

I'm IN. Thanks beta :)

Feb 5, 07 10:03 pm  · 
some person

I want to propose another rule:

You need not admit if you failed. We'll just assume that your dog ate your results letter.


We will all celebrate with you when you get your PASS letter.

Feb 5, 07 10:06 pm  · 

I'm from another country/continent/planet could someone explain (in simple terms) the ARE & LARE process, the number of exams - expected pass mark, means of testing, etc.

This of course is not just for my knowledge but those about to embark. The registration process is different in most places, and its great to keep these things international


Feb 5, 07 10:54 pm  · 

There are nine exams. Six of them are multiple choice: Mechanical/Electrical, Pre-Design, Contract Documents, Lateral Forces, General Structures, and Materials/Methods. The other three are graphic exams: Building Planning, Site Planning, and Building Design.

There is no published "pass mark". This article might be helpful:
Some of the questions on every test are also experimental and don't count in your grade. But you don't know which ones or how many.

The tests are all administered by computer. The graphic exams require you to utilize a very basic, limited CAD program (so basic that it doesn't have features like "rotate" or "copy".)

There is lots of information at or at the areforum mentioned above.

Feb 5, 07 11:00 pm  · 
liberty bell

Fantastic intro, betadinesutures - chock full o' info.

For those of you unlucky enough to be the only one in your firm taking the exam, this will be a very helpful place - along with the groups posted above - to get info and keep you motivated. And motiviation is important because it is HARD. It is hard to keep at it when you are frustrated and wonder why you need to get registered anyway when all you really want to do with your life is design and buid furniture. believe me the feeling of satisfaction on getting the license will be so worth it in the end, you have no idea.

My other advice is to hit your loved ones up for rewards, especaially if they are bugging you to get it done: when I finally got all the tests passed, my husband gave me one of these:

Study hard! And count on a little dumb luck too.

Feb 5, 07 11:01 pm  · 
some person

Okay. I’m dying to know where everyone is in the process and your strategies for spacing the exams in relation to each other. I’ll go first:

Construction Documents: 12/23/06
Materials & Methods: 1/6/07
Pre-Design: 1/20/07

Lateral Forces: 2/10/07 (upcoming)

I’m trying to keep quiet at work about the exams. I’ve only had to admit it to one person who directly asked me, “So where are you in the IDP process?” Like I implied above, it’s embarrassing to admit if you fail a test. I don’t want to be one of those people who constantly talks about the exams in the office but fails them in the end.

Feb 5, 07 11:16 pm  · 

DCA, I'm amazed that you are taking them so close together. I was going to allow at least a month in between mine, probably closer to a month and half.

I am going to be paying a lot of attention to this thread, BTW....I finished IDP but I'm not ready to start taking the tests yet.

Feb 5, 07 11:48 pm  · 
vado retro

no whining? forget it...

Feb 5, 07 11:50 pm  · 

DCA, you don't have to be afraid of failing, because these tests can also be very irrational. they are not to test you on your intelligence nor design talent. and, 50 percent of passing them, is to start taking them.
now, go ahead and solve the same lateral design calculation over and over again and know your soil types and shear wall cracks and what winds do to building surfaces, and what building shapes are good for lateral forces, even if you know the answers by heart.
never overlook at the question, read it well and understand what is being asked, sometimes the answer is embedded in the question. sometimes, don't be afraid the check the obvious answer.
i am sure you all know this by now, after taking few tests.

i failed gs and cse (oral), one time each.

Feb 6, 07 12:12 am  · 

Wow thanks guys this is great

We've just changed to a written series of exams (versus multiple choice and oral in front of a bunch of old guys/guards) to standardise them regionally granted we are about 5 years off completely singularisation.

Feb 6, 07 1:27 am  · 

this is great.

one question, when you pass, do they let you know what you got wrong, and why?

i know on a lot of gov't tests, they don't. and some of those tests really should, because you might need to know the info: like when passing a boat, which is the stand-on
or jet engines must give way to props - you know, those stupid rules that save lives.

Feb 6, 07 1:34 am  · 

Ok, my 50 cents...

01. Another trick for those on a budget.

Your university library should have all the reference books.

Since it's not glossy pictures books with star-architects in it but big ol' text book...student don't read these.
So the best thing is the books will surely be avalaible.

If not, well get the books on amazon.
I thought that the cost to do it again was worst than to invest in studying materials.

02. With are-solutions mock exams passing the graphics part was a breeze (hum hum).

03. As well, the Are Flash-cards are a good-buy.
So you can study everywhere...;-P

04. I did one exam a month. And usually the anxiety of the upcoming exam makes that the two weeks before are intense and efficient. Be prepare for those.

05. The good thing about studying the ARE, you can take nap in the afternoon without shame. It's good for memorizing.

06. I actually took time off the job to study. I saw the (crual) ARE process as one more year of University you basically have to do on your own.

The salary increase afterwards and the joy of not being an intern anymore make it quite worth the few months out of salary.

07. Get Edwards Allen fundamentals of building construction. This book should be a mandated read in first year of University. And it's actually an interesting read.

08. Be nice at Prometrics center, you'll get up there 9 times. And the should be nice too...they are making a fortune out of you. The receptionist may even know you by your first name!

09. Eat chinese fortune cookies. I got one saying ''Good news will come by the mail''; I kept this one in my wallet...haha

10. For structure, if you are up for the ''take-no-prisonner'' approach read ''Why Buildings stand up'' and ''Why Buildings falls down''...super good books. The guy used to teach Structural physics at Harvard without calculation (so the legend says)

Feb 6, 07 3:47 am  · 

California, I believe has 10 parts, that's right Orhan? The LARE, I am not sure of the number of parts.

Another critical thing to point out in case no one here is aware. If you have yet to get your authorization to test, see if you can find a state to take the test for that has Direct Registration, doing this cuts out the middle man and puts him at the end - this way you can take the exam almost right away and not have to wait for your state [sometimes months] to get back to you.

One more thing, the new ME exam - sometime this month - will have fill in the blank questions, and pick all the right answer questions, it's called the AIT. Check NCARB for examples. Soon all multiple choice will be handled this way, and they say there will be 10-15% of these types of questions on the exams.

Holz, they do not give you a grade or let you know what you got wrong, but there are typically cryptic graphic symbols and short sentences on areas that need more, in depth study.

You will wait anywhere between 6-8 weeks for your graphic p or f, and between 3-4 weeks for your p or f. There is a vaunted, and some say mythological Prometric trick to finding out your p or f, it's worked everytime for me, log in to Prometric and try to schedule the exam you just took, if it pops up for reschedule in 6 months, it's a good indicator you've failed, if it doesn't, well you know. I usually try this after about two weeks.

Feb 6, 07 5:15 am  · 

Another note, apparently the questions are weighted, some worth more than others.

Feb 6, 07 5:18 am  · 

what's the LARE?

Feb 6, 07 6:47 am  · 

Some advice on the order of exams, and if had to start all over. If you can take the exams in groups of three - CD/MM/PD [in this order first]: try and take or at least I would, in one or two weeks. My reasoning is that so much of the material overlaps, that studying for these at one time is not as daunting as it seems - perhaps the benefit of taking these and passing is my thinking here. SP/BT/BP [again same order]: again having taken these, and passing them - trying not to jinx my retake of SP - they are all doable in one or two weeks. The trick here is to practice, practice, practice the software and do the examples, but don't overdo the examples. I over worked the examples and because I am a visual learner, I tried to fit my practice examples to my exam and got flustered and panicked when a solution did not come to mind. For SP and BP create matrices for both Program portions and it will help manage your time. As for GS/LF/ME the order is not so much important, except that paring GS/LF and taking them with a week of one another seems to be the general consensus.

LARE - Landscape Architects.

Feb 6, 07 7:04 am  · 
liberty bell

With Orhan's honesty in mind I will say that I'm not embarassed to admit that I failed some exams too. What I am embarassed about is that I can't remember if it was 2 or 3...I know I failed Building Design because I didn't budget my time well. Breezed through it the second time. And I know I failed one - General Structures? - because I forgot about it: scheduled the test for a Monday thinking I would cram all weekend then Monday morning realized I'd forgotten. Couldn't get my fee back, so took it as a dry run just in case - and predictably failed.

The point being: it seemed like a huge problem and really depressed me at the time, but now I can't even remember. DON'T LET IT GET YOU DOWN if you fail one or a few - it sets you back six months, which sucks, but you'll get them all done eventually.

beta, you are so cool! The backdoor online rescheduling method of determinimg if you passed - hilarious!

Feb 6, 07 7:21 am  · 

since i finally got started i'll share my experience to date...

beta's suggestion of CD/MM/PD is close to what i did...

during the month of december i studied both CD and PD together as those two exams have A LOT of overlap... i took CD on 01/08/07 and PD on 01/09/07... i've received my pass letter for PD, but don't have my letter for CD yet...

i then took two weeks to study for MEP and took that exam on 01/29/07... obviously i don't have my letter yet, but i'm pretty sure that i did OK...

the key piece of advice for me is DON'T GET SPOOKED BY THE POSTS ON AREFORUM... in my opionion, areforum seems to be a huge whine fest by people who fail the exams... don't get caught up in the negativity... review the posts to find out what topics people are saying are on the exams, download some study notes from the FTP site, and get out... don't get sucked into the miasma of complaints about WTF questions, and the study materials being insufficient...

of the three exams that i've taken, i think that the ALS materials (study guide, supplemental practice questions, and the test bank CD) have been enough to prepare me for the exams... sure, there are a few curveball questions, but for the most part with a little thought and common sense you can figure them out...

be sure that you know that MEP and GS provide reference materials (equations) for the exam... there is a button in the top right of the testing program that brings it up... i know more than one person that didn't know this until after the exam was over... also, when you're studying for MEP, you need to read the chapter on elevators/escalators in the MM ALS book since it isn't in the MEP ALS book for some reason...

that's all for now... here's my tentative schedule to finish off the exams...

took last weekend and this week off from studying since i have family in town... start studying MM 02/12/07... take MM around 02/26/07... take the month of march to study for the 3 graphics tests and learn the goofy CAD program... take BT on 04/02/07... take BP on 04/09/07... take SP on 04/16/07... take 1 month to study both structures... take GS on 05/14/07 and LF on 05/21/07...

Feb 6, 07 8:49 am  · 

oh yeah... and another tip for those on a budget... if your firm doesn't have study material (or up to date material)... your local AIA chapter should have the materials available to check out...

GHAST!!!! the AIA might be helpful for once... of course, some chapters will only give the stuff to members... my chapter will give it to anyone... also, a lot of chapters have ARE study sessions/classes...

here's a link to my chapter's website that has some study material available for download...

Feb 6, 07 8:55 am  · 

YEAH for including the LARE for all those 'scapers!!!!

just found out that CLARB pronounces it 'larry'- sounds like a schlub of a test.... and areforum doesn't have a discussion going for this test. so what gives??? Another reason to think that AREforum sucks.

The LARE has 5 sections, 3 multiple choice and two graphic.

-Section A: Legal and Administrative Aspects of Practice
2 hours, 85 multiple choice questions

-Section B: Analytical Aspects of Practice
3 hours, 120 multiple choice or keylist items

-Section C: Planning and Site Design
6 hours, 7 vignette problems

-Section D: Structural Considerations and Materials and Methods of
4 hours, 160 multiple choice or keylist items

-Section E: Grading, Drainage and Stormwater Management
5 hours, 5 vignette problems

Each is administered twice a year. The testing sessions is split over two days of about 5-6 hours of brain frying. Unlike the ARE, the graphics are still drawn by hand- so you gotta bring all those drafting tools that you haven't used since undergrad and hope you have a comfortable desk...

For extra $$$, you can get more info on why you failed the LARE. CLARB has more info on this.

Don't forget the California Supplimental IDP process, the CA only test and the CA oral exam. gotta love the golden state for extra beaurocracy...

If we didn't scare all the interior designers away from archinect, this would be a good place to chat about their test too.

Feb 6, 07 11:22 am  · 
Ms Beary

IDP is finished, but I am caught in that limbo before I can actually take the test. I am studying anyways, have been for 2-3 years actually. So my latest concocted strategy is to group the tests in 3's - take them really close together, like a week apart, and take a week or two break between groups of 3. The first group of three might be CD, PD, and MM, the third three are the graphics portions, and the last three are GS, LF and ME. My goal is to be licensed before the end of the year.
On study mock exams, I usually get around 60-70% correct, which I assume is probably close to the passing line, but have gotten as low as 40%. I don't care if I fail one, I can feel no shame. I'm more excited to get them over with. And when I do, I get a $5k salary increase (totally worth it) and the exam expense reimbursed by the company. Lucky me. Then I will go for LEED.

Feb 6, 07 12:41 pm  · 

Yeah thanks BETA....I (honestly withing even looking at the current postings) posted up an ARE topic too, so please forgive me folks.'s good to know that you guys (whom I highly regard on these threads as good people and good architects) are human too. It is daunting and I am feeling it right now. I must say I can barely scrape enough together to purchase materials (hence my posting earlier).

And yes...I am barely starting...but I failed 1 already, and MAN does that make you depressed.....kinda like feeling that you're not up to it!

Wish me luck...Im doing LF in 3 wks!

Feb 6, 07 1:33 pm  · 
Dapper Napper

My other reason for loving Texas, I could start testing after 6 months of working, while completing IDP. But because of job limbo, waited another year. Still, I want this out of the way sooner rather than later, befor elife catches up with me.

I'm taking one per month, started in Nov. with the BP, Dec-SP, Jan-BT, Feb-MM, etc. until finished.

If you can, I strongly advice the graphics workshops, with that, the graphics are pretty clear, but you MUST PRACTICE. I passed BP & BT, but had a complete meltdown on SP from trying to interprete the directions waaay too deeply.

And, ITA, the ARE Forum can make you crazy, get in and get out.

Feb 6, 07 2:33 pm  · 

So I spent two summers working for a professor who is licensed in two states but not the one we worked in. I suppose this time is not applicable to IDP training units unless my "other" supervisor during those two summers, who is licensed in my state, would be willing to sign, yes?

Feb 6, 07 3:39 pm  · 
Dapper Napper

Squirrelly, just saw your other post. Maybe you can start your own study group with a few others, who are on the same licensing schedule as you, and y'all split the cost of the study materials.

Feb 6, 07 4:36 pm  · 

Good call h.y.s.
now the hard part is finding peeps here in LA that ARE willing to share (both time and materials). I know garpike was talking about talking the exams...but I think he's up to his eyeballs with work/studying cause I've not seen him here in a long while.

Good news is....I just asked z-boss to pick up the costs of some of my study material and he reluctantly agreed to at least this go at least for now I have LF and GS materials!! wooo hoooo!

(gotta keep going on those sites Beta suggested to get more info and or possibly pick up some used study materials!)

Feb 6, 07 5:04 pm  · 

i am in the process of taking my exams as well. i have been taking it a little slower than i would like, but i am making my way through them and trying to do extra studying upfront hoping that i will pass each exam and not have to wait 6 months for a retest.

i have also grouped my exams in 3's but because i live in california i have the cse as the grand finale. so i have grouped my exams a little differently. first i took gs/lf/me, then i took sd/bt/bp and now i am studying for mm/pd/cd. the logic behind this is two-fold. i was most scared of the exams heavy in calculations (although there were not that many difficult problems on my exam). also i am hoping that preparing for mm/pd/cd will also act as a primer for preparing for the cse.

i am hoping to be done with the rest of the exams by the middle of the year.

Feb 6, 07 5:13 pm  · 

Insight- IDP is non-territorial/jurisdictional. time spent with a registered (us/canadian) architect is time well spent. Just make sure you worked 10+ weeks at 40/hrs per week to be able to log the hours. You can also log all your hours in one state then chose to take the test some place else. just check the local regs (CA has a residency requirement above and beyond IDP). IDP is the lowest common denominator these days.

Squirrelly, most offices in LA pay for the exam and should have copies of the study stuff. just ask your boss.

Feb 6, 07 5:13 pm  · 

well treekiller....yeah most offices...but not mine. I had to 'negotiate' with the boss, and even suggested to him " hey we can sell the stuff on the ARE forums if you want to get your money back (at least 3/4 of it - once I pass).

I guess he's a little bit of a tightwad! oh well.

hey spaceghost...not to up with the lingo, but cse? I was reading up to see if I got your meaning on this...but could you share?
thanks (and where in cali are you)?

Feb 6, 07 5:19 pm  · 


the cse is the california supplemental exam, a.k.a. the dreaded oral exam. i believe everyone wanting to be registered in california needs to take this after passing the 9 ncarb exams. I am in los angeles.

Feb 6, 07 5:24 pm  · 

right right, ok I just knew it as the "oral exam" and have some info on the way they do that exam now (from someone who took it recently) which is changed from the format they had even last year.

sweet man, you're in LA? so am I. Maybe we can chat/share info. I am sure you are way ahead of me anyways!

Feb 6, 07 5:30 pm  · 

Oh, I am so mad! I took my ninth exam Building Tech graphics (failed it 6 months ago)! Where was this thread when I decided to go gung-ho and take all nine tests within 3 months! Oh well. The good news is I passed 8 of them. I failed building tech because of two things:
1. I took time to think about what I was doing and therefore ran out of time.
2. I was on vacation in another state and really wasn't in "testing mode".

If I ever find out if I passed it this time I will let you all know. Then I will have the CSE to worry about.

So, my advice, get your hands on the WHOLE ALS system. If you can't afford it all, just get the cd's and take the tests over and over again. Familiarity with answering questions from the computer will go a long way in getting you passed these things.
I typically read the study guide, took the computer tests and then focused my practice exams on questions related to the areas I was week on in the computer tests.
Oh yeah, and nothing beats some good luck.

Feb 6, 07 6:25 pm  · 

Thanks treekiller, I am just trying to be sure: My 123 form (employment verification) says that

"If you work or worked under the direct supervision of a registered arch., eng., or larch., NCARB requires that the person who completes the lower portion of Form 123-1 be registered in the state where the firm is or was located throughout the entire employment period."

So my supervisor teaches in my state, and is licensed arch. in two others but not ours (but he was in the past). I fear that if I have him sign for me on this form that they will reject this work period. I think I'm a bit screwed here.

Feb 6, 07 7:21 pm  · 

Scheduling the ARE: many have posted about the time frame(s) they chose to schedule their tests...did you take time off from work in bulk or just testing days? How many hours/wk did you study in preparation for the first round? Did your office allow you time to study or was it all on your own time?
P.S. liberty bell-your reward for testing inspires!

Feb 6, 07 7:38 pm  · 


don't worry about it. contact me if you have any questions, need some help, or need to get your hands study guides. in fact if anyone needs to "check-out" als books in los angeles and you are willing to pick them up and return them, contact me, maybe i can help.

i would have never made it as far as i have were it not for the encouragement and help of friends. most of the time they did not even answer questions about specific exams. even things like not having to anticipate what was going to happen when i walk into the testing center for the first time helped me go in with a little bit more confidence.

use the areforum. like others have said there is a lot of whining but there is also a lot of helpful information. if nothing else some of the whinging make your stormy seas seem a little more calm.

Feb 6, 07 8:00 pm  · 
some person

I think I read on areforum that the "Prometric Trick" no longer works as of a few weeks ago - Prometric won't let you reschedule until 4 +/- months after you take the exam.

Feb 6, 07 8:34 pm  · 

i think there are a lots of helpful information in are forum.

are forum is not a discussion forum like this one. the only reason it exists, is to pass the registration exams. so, whining or not, there are a lot of useful information there to help you pass the exams. more than anything else, it keeps the test takers involved and in focus. it is not a site to discuss wacky, academic, theoretical stuff about architecture. it is about how to pass the are only, and get some pier support who are in the same boat for the time being.

taking the are tests are very very temporary part of your life in architecture. once you pass them and get your stamp, thats it, you will never have to think about it, unless you want to help other fellows who are going through it.

make it a learning experience. there are a lot of stuff i previously overlooked and thought i knew.

Feb 6, 07 9:02 pm  · 

pier* peer support

Feb 6, 07 9:04 pm  · 

insight: if you have that person sign your form NCARB will return the form to you rejecting it. Also a few states have even stricter rules, for example requiring that the person supervising you has been registered in that state for at least three years. So you should also check with your state board BEFORE you submit any IDP forms to NCARB, to see if they have any such additional rules that might affect you.

One thought: if your employer was registered in another state and he had a practice in that other state then you might get away with using the address of the firm in that other state on your IDP forms.

In answer to your other questions: I didn't take any major amount of time off from work to take the tests. I took 6 of them on Saturdays, and the other three on workdays. For those three I got paid time off (which amounted to about a half-day for each). I did not take any time off from work to study. For the graphic exams I practiced with the software for about 2 weeks, for all 3 of those tests at once, and then took the 3 tests over the course of about 2 weeks. I spread the multiple choice exams over the course of about 5 months, studying varying amounts of time for each - a high of about 5 weeks of studying (4 or 5 days per week for 2 to 3 hours each night) for Mechanical/Electrical, and a low of just a few hours of skimming of old books from college for PreDesign.)

Feb 6, 07 9:58 pm  · 

thank you for this thread batadinesutures. It looks like it will be very helpful.

I have taken 4 exams, failed one. Deciding which to take next. Thinking a graphic one. I am thinking I will give myself a month or 6 weeks to study....

And DCA, I agree on taking the tests under the radar...I only let select people know that I will be out of the office for a test....

The biggest annoyances I have found so far is:
1) when I complete a test, I have no idea if I passed. I feel like I might have passed, or I might have failed. So hard to tell. I have asked others, they all feel the same way.
2) finding time to study and focus on studying.

Feb 6, 07 10:01 pm  · 

great info Formerlyunknown, I too will not get any real time off for the exams.
I may be able to count those two summers of work up to a certain maximum-235 or 117 training units depending on the how my supervisor is defined in idp. Haven't mailed the forms in yet, so I will see if I can work anything out...I still feel like I've heard lots of discussion about a supervisor being a licensed architect, less about whether that architect was licensed in the state you work in. ...the logic that an otherwise-licensed architect who is practicing in a state where he/she is not licensed is basically not recognized by ncarb?

Feb 6, 07 10:23 pm  · 
some person

Orhan's statment is so true: 50 percent of passing them, is to start taking them. It's worked for me for the first three exams so far.

I figure that it's "only money," and I value my free time more than the $100-$150 +/- it costs to take the exam, so why spend months studying for an exam that I might get lucky and pass with less study?

I must confess that I've relied upon archiflash for CD/MM/PD almost solely. However, I did read through the AIA contracts before CD. (And I totally don't want to sound like I'm bragging - I just want those "on the fence" to realize that you probably know more than you think you do. So just go for it.)

architphil, your aggressive schedule inspired me to register for 3 additional exams. There's no backing out now! (okay, there is, but I won't let myself do it.)


2/10/07: Lateral Forces
2/17/07: Building Planning
3/10/07: Building Technology
3/17/07: Site Planning

Idiot or genius? We shall see.

I'm going to wait for my results from Lateral Forces before I schedule GS and ME.

Feb 6, 07 10:30 pm  · 

Yes: an architect practicing in a state where he's not licensed is not considered to be an architect in that state (by the state boards, as well as by NCARB) so this experience doesn't count as working under a licensed architect. This is why if you submit a form that shows a work address in State A but a license number for your supervisor that is from State B then your form will be rejected. This will just add processing time and aggravation to your IDP processing.

You're correct that you might be able to classify this experience in one of the other "training settings" - and the 117-unit limit is approximately equal to 24 weeks of work, so this would probably be equal to or more than the amount of experience that you accumulated in two summers anyway...

Feb 6, 07 10:53 pm  · 

squirrelly, I am here, and I am alive.

The ME sucked. Err I mean. Ok no whining.

lb, I was just looking for one of those. Hopefully for my new place. They rock (pun intended).

Feb 6, 07 11:13 pm  · 
Ms Beary

So, people that have taken and passed exams, what kind of scores did you get on the practice exams? I'm wondering if 60-70% is high enough. If I cram right before a test, I would get it higher, I want to know how much I need to cram...

Feb 7, 07 12:22 pm  · 

i think questions are somewhat harder and longer in sample tests. if you are getting 60-70% you'd probably pass. study as much as you can 'cram.'
but here is the situation;
it is not like a dmv test. so you might hit by the same general area of the subject question but asked in a very different way so you might not make the association and add that a deliberate way to make you misunderstand. it is very important to understand what is being asked and know the actual subject. study to learn and don't worry about token test sample questions that much. you will see only very small percentage of the q's are asked the same pattern as in study books. and you will always be surprised, no matter what, how different the questions are from what you expected.

Feb 7, 07 12:43 pm  · 

thanks all for the useful info.

spaceghost: will email you soon

garpike: man that sucks but I feel your pain. I too failed. but coming up for me is LF, so we'll see. Waiting for my test bank for LF, meanwhile reading the kaplan book.

it's good to know that as DCA suggested, if you just take the exams, you're bound to pass them (as we do know probably more than we lead on, or even feel confident that we do know).

Thanks for that boost DCA, and best wishes mate!

Feb 7, 07 12:59 pm  · 

don't get me wrong though, after the initial shock of how different the questions are, you will quickly realize it is all the same shit. just asked differently. like instead of giving you the soil type and asking you how many, they give you how many and ask you the soil type.

ok. back to work. i am going to see a new studio space about half the price from what i am paying now.

Feb 7, 07 1:10 pm  · 
Ms Beary

I'm COUNTING on DCA's remark somewhat. Have even considered scheduling several exams a week taking time off to do so, maybe scheduling them all a day apart, and taking the day inbetween to study. If I fail, I fail, and take it again.

Feb 7, 07 1:33 pm  · 

i agree with orhan that it is really important to understand the underlying concepts of the questions and not necessarily the questions themselves... the questions will be significantly different on the real exams when compared to the practice exams... my experience has been that the real exams have been just a tad bit trickier than the practice exams, but doable if you really understand the concepts... the kaplan test bank CD-ROMs suggest setting your passing rate at 70%-80%... i have a friend that passed all 9 exams on the first try who's advice was "once your getting at least 80% correct on the practice questions, you're ready to take the exam"...

on the three that i've already taken (PD, CD, MEP), and the 1 that i'm starting to study for now (MM), i've been running through the ALS chapter quizzes and practice exam before i even look at the study material just to test my baseline... i've been hitting around 65%... then i read through the kaplan book once and retake all of the quizzes, practice exam, and supplemental test questions... i'm then generally hitting around 80%... then i go through all of the questions that i missed to make sure that i understand why i missed it... after that i take the computer practice exams 2 or 3 times and then off to the testing center...

Feb 7, 07 1:43 pm  · 

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