guns do have an architectural solution and the solutions have been developed for Airports, Banks, etc....bullet proof glass, full body scans, and so on........I thought a bit about this today and I think the left is playing the wrong narrative here by not discussing the full ingredients to what happened here. pretty much playing into the right's arguement or at least giving them a reason to laugh at the lefts (intentional) naivitiy. It is naive and ignorant, and really fucking stupid when the President does it to not fully acknowledge the full scope here, and this is how you could arrive at an architectural solution as well.........The full ingredients here are 1) The Tools - guns, bombs, etc....weapons. 2) The Invidual's State of Mind - biological mental illness, or pre-disposed mental illness triggered by social events, or a totally sane person who is driven to this state of mind by society. 3) Radical Ideology - a made up set of beliefs that either encourage, confirm, justify, and even provide hope to the person who seeks destruction of their fellow human with Weapons..............................lets start with number 3. Radical Ideologies are NOT real unless someone wants to enact or believe in them or represent them through text and symbols. Architecture could provide spaces where these symbols might be read and interpreted. The most obvious version of this are murals or stained glass with illustrated stories. Less obvious are peaceful places of meditiation that "house" the ideology...............2) Architecture can affect the individuals state of mind and for the most part architects can design certain spaces that cause certain behaviors by its occupants. Good design can minimalize mental illnesses bad affects on an individual. For this see Neuro Science an Architecture, specifially retirement homes.........both 2 and 3 are indirect social controls and their affects are ultimately NOT guarenteed.............1) Architecture has many parts that can be tools against weapons. The question though is does a night club entry need to be like an Airport Security check terminal? (in case you missed the other ingridients to this scenario in Orlando - crazy bastard (mental illness or socially caused ill behavior and radical interpretation propoganda of Islam. Whether Islam (an ideology) wants to be part of this problem or not, it is. and to pretend like its not part of the equation is the definition of ignorant. if you feel it is not, go peddle a radical version of Buddhism or Chrisitianity and see if you attract the same crazy bastards with Guns who do this shit.)
...go peddle a radical version of Buddhism or Chrisitianity and see if you attract the same crazy bastards with Guns who do this shit.)
Um... Wow. Branch Davidians (Waco), all the planned parenthood attacks, the attacks at Mosque's, Jewish Synagogues, etc. The KKK is Christian. Most of our domestic terrorist identify themselves as proud Christians. And that's just the US. Worldwide, there are plenty of Christian based extremist groups. There are Buddhist ones too.... Sri Lanka, India, etc. have them.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Scientology may be the only religion I can think of that hasn't used violence in the name of their religion... but they are still young.
it's dangerous to ignore culture and religion in these problems, and even more dangerous to not acknowledge the source of the ideology. Ban guns and some guy will figure out how to use a Fertilizer Truck Bomb.
A fertilizer truck bomb is certainly scary, but....did you see the article making the rounds today by the woman reporter who walked into a gun store in Philly and walked out 7 minutes later with a legally purchased AR-15? That's very little time to have to spend planning.
In the meantime, someone I work with made a joke yesterday about shooting people who try to enter the museum grounds without paying and it froze me. Too soon, or am I oversensitive? I think those go hand in hand.
Donna, if the museum grounds are no longer free to the public, then IMA is really doing something wrong. I get the parking fee (and gladly pay it when I go), but just walking around Oldfields and 100 acres is a treat. It should be free and open to the public.
Also holy crap when did IMA start charging admission? Good thing they went back to free parking. If charging admission, those grounds should absolutely be free.
this is how the narrative is playing out, in case you think being PC is helpful....the Fertilizer reference was to Timothy McVeigh - restrictions now on Fertilizer sales ?-
so my two favorite cultural documentary shows are on CNN - Anthony Bourdain -Parts Unknown and Kamau Bell's United Shades of America.
In the prepper episode he shows a chart that indicates Prepper population went way up after Obama became president (compared to 9/11 it appeared nearly 4 fold).
If you only acknowledge one part of the problem - Guns - and ignore the mental and cultural elements - especially the cuttural - you are only feeding the crazy white people who love guns mentality to get more guns and better ones. Because you see the gov't ain't on your side prepper, - all PC avoiding the facts (regardless if the crazy bastard even knew what it meant to be a member of any religion) and taking yer guns....
so what is the KKK-Christian equivalent in Islam?
and then you wonder why Trump has support.
also, avoiding the facts, that all this craziness finds its support in radical ideologies, is irresponsible. Here is a white american Christian example so no one gets offended.
I'm willing to bet for every Plann Parenthood shooting or bombing, thousands if not Millions of "moderate" Christians smile inside and note to themselves "justice".
So stating a crime is directly related to a Religion is paramount, and who gives a fuck if it offends a whole bunch of "moderates" - its their Religion they are in charge of. Reform the shit or something.
religion is a poison that manipulates and controls. people do not think for themselves. they'd rather believe in 2000+ year old fairy tales dictate how they treat other people.
No Pastafarians have ever mowed down crowds or blown-up fertilizer bombs. Perhaps they have the one and only useful religion. All hail his noodly appendages!
Josh, yes, the IMA charges admission now, to both the building and the grounds. It's a bullshit policy and I hate it and I can't do a very good job defending it to anyone I know. The *only* thing I can say is that we don't get any monetary support from either the city or the state, so we're technically operating like a private institution. IMO the cultural payback of allowing people, especially those who can't afford an $18 entry fee, to come in to see grounds and art should be worth not making profit on admission, but I've long ago given up trying to understand the director's mentality, or the board's.
jonesboro, columbine, and sandy hook were not religiously motivated were they? this is more of an extension of those events rather than isis establishing a caliphate.
orlando was a mentally unstable person who was unable to face his latent homosexuality and had too easy access to weapons that can kill too many people too fast. to make it about religion doesn't address the core of the problem.
Curtkram - if you don't accept religion as part of any of this, I'll put it to you this way, there were still social ideologies that confirmed and supported the shooters state of mind to use their tool.
There are three parts: 1) Tools, 2) State of mind, 3) Radical Ideologies (that is the core problem, removing the tool alone won't solve anything)
The core of the problem (besides not allowing people to have assault weapons in their possession - who could even think that's a good idea?) is the state and federal slashing of budgets for mental healthcare. Expand that, because this country clearly needs it and it could help solve problems such as someone shooting someone else because they were arguing over something trivial, or because this guy was angry and couldn't come to terms with himself. He would have been able to do so with the help of a licensed mental health professional to guide him.
Also, Donna boo on admission being for the grounds as well as it further limits access but I get it. Mike Pence sucks, as does the Indiana state legislature when it comes to providing funding for culture.
There are three parts: 1) Tools, 2) State of mind, 3) Radical Ideologies (that is the core problem, removing the tool alone won't solve anything
Can you articulate the "radical ideology" for Jonesboro, Columbine, Aurora, Sandy Hook? Its easy to label the religious zealots. Is retribution a ideology? How do you define the ideology in the "secular" shootings?
damnit, trying to work here, now I have to work some thinking out...ok ok
don't know enough about Joneboro. Columbine - where to start, I'll just reference Bowling for Columbine for starting point, Aurora - not too familiar, and Sandy Hook is a prime example of affluent stupidity, allowing a kid to exist as "normal" and go to a gun range to be social who clearly had issues - but don't call fat people fat when they're fat - wouldn't be PC. Everyone deserves a chance.
"secular" does not remove you from ideologies. "Secular" is an ideology to begin with.
here I'll spin it around, let's say you invent a set of Ideologies for one purpose.
But somehow a whole group of certain "mentally ill" people latch on to it. as justice in their actions. Think of conspiracy theories of all sorts. Whether they are true or not and being understood correctly or not the "ideologies" you proposed "virtually" justify the actions of insane people. Are you then responsible for this?
Nietzsche had a deep hole to dig himself out of thanks to his sister and the Nazi's. (after he was dead)...
I think I'm going to start a thread about how a single building/structure can solve all the world's problems if only we did away with the exams and licenses and ethics and international law.
Is that thread on architecture to protect from mass shootings any good? I haven't wandered into it yet because the thought of it exhausts me.
Jun 14, 16 10:49 pm ·
·
Are you sure you want to?
It might easily become a dumpster fire. It's controversial topic. Well the gun rights stuff that inevitably being debated. If the topic gets a little more architectural in nature, then it might be a little more interesting.
It might be a little more better topic once the discussion becomes more architectural.
Ricky, it's only controversial because dumb-as-fucks like yourself make it so. You're a huge contributor to the problem and "pro-2nd amendment at all costs" stances are social cancers.
Pastafarians follow the only true religion. Olaf, any word on where the holy beer volcano is hidden?
You can't fix the social cancer by removing people right to own guns. Here is what happens in countries where people don't have Constitutional rights to own guns like the 2nd Amendment.
Remember the 1982 incident in South Korea? The Norwegian mass shooting?
The problem is a social and psychological problem. If you don't address the actual issues, all you are going to do is cause them to switch up the tools used for mass killing. That is what concerns me the most because there are far more destructive and dangerous methods that can yield far higher kills at once than an AR-15. I'm not explaining how or the means or the methods. There is some things best not spoken or written. The information is on the internet to do it but that is one of those things you just don't aid them by pointing them to specific information or giving specific information.
Ricardo, your "right" to own deadly toys is outdated and in direct violation of everyone else's right to exist in peace.
I spit and defecate to your glorious 2nd amendment. Fuck that shit, you ARE the problem and idiots like yourself have to be accountable for the senseless death due to your religious devotion to gun-ownership.
Now, run along and waste air in the gun-freak/murder toy thread instead of here.
^ there is a healthy dumpster fire there tduds and Balkins' front-row seat is perpetually reserved.
Jun 15, 16 2:41 pm ·
·
N_S,
Get your head out of your ass. My right to own a gun which is your right as well. It doesn't mean you or me are going out killing a bunch of people just because we have a gun. Out of 200 MILLION+ people in the United States that owns 1 or more guns, the number of people who goes out killing people like this is a VERY SMALL percentage of the population.
Owning a gun doesn't means a right to murder people. Are you a total piece of shit to think that a person who owns guns are going to go out and shoot up a bunch of people. Are you fucking daft? Senseless killing has been happening long before guns and even if guns are not around, it will still continue. I'm more concerned about the alternatives that these people would switch to that is easily obtained and made and capable of far more destruction and death yield.
Given this is a PUBLIC FORUM, I am not discussing the alternatives. I can explain to you in PM but it would not be responsible to discuss publicly on an internet forum.
I tried reading the dumpster fire and it made my head spin. I might disagree with gwharton but he's by far the most informed person there. That's all I have to say about that.
Rick, your opinion on guns is just entrenched stupidity emboldened by fearmongers with tiny genitals.
In all seriousness: your persistance in some threads is amusing, but if you keep ranting on about it here on TC I'll enforce my right to request that the site ban some people permanently. So STFU. Go bray on the appropriate thread.
Jla... I thought I knew beer, but I've got nothing compared to the others there. At the risk of sounding political... alcohol import laws are making my beer adventures much more difficult.
Does anyone have bare Homasote panels uesd as a tack surface at their workstation who could post a picture? I'm trying to convince my officemates that it's a good, clean but raw looking material and I can't find any good pictures. I have samples from AIA National, but I left them at home.
Thread Central
guns do have an architectural solution and the solutions have been developed for Airports, Banks, etc....bullet proof glass, full body scans, and so on........I thought a bit about this today and I think the left is playing the wrong narrative here by not discussing the full ingredients to what happened here. pretty much playing into the right's arguement or at least giving them a reason to laugh at the lefts (intentional) naivitiy. It is naive and ignorant, and really fucking stupid when the President does it to not fully acknowledge the full scope here, and this is how you could arrive at an architectural solution as well.........The full ingredients here are 1) The Tools - guns, bombs, etc....weapons. 2) The Invidual's State of Mind - biological mental illness, or pre-disposed mental illness triggered by social events, or a totally sane person who is driven to this state of mind by society. 3) Radical Ideology - a made up set of beliefs that either encourage, confirm, justify, and even provide hope to the person who seeks destruction of their fellow human with Weapons..............................lets start with number 3. Radical Ideologies are NOT real unless someone wants to enact or believe in them or represent them through text and symbols. Architecture could provide spaces where these symbols might be read and interpreted. The most obvious version of this are murals or stained glass with illustrated stories. Less obvious are peaceful places of meditiation that "house" the ideology...............2) Architecture can affect the individuals state of mind and for the most part architects can design certain spaces that cause certain behaviors by its occupants. Good design can minimalize mental illnesses bad affects on an individual. For this see Neuro Science an Architecture, specifially retirement homes.........both 2 and 3 are indirect social controls and their affects are ultimately NOT guarenteed.............1) Architecture has many parts that can be tools against weapons. The question though is does a night club entry need to be like an Airport Security check terminal? (in case you missed the other ingridients to this scenario in Orlando - crazy bastard (mental illness or socially caused ill behavior and radical interpretation propoganda of Islam. Whether Islam (an ideology) wants to be part of this problem or not, it is. and to pretend like its not part of the equation is the definition of ignorant. if you feel it is not, go peddle a radical version of Buddhism or Chrisitianity and see if you attract the same crazy bastards with Guns who do this shit.)
...go peddle a radical version of Buddhism or Chrisitianity and see if you attract the same crazy bastards with Guns who do this shit.)
Um... Wow. Branch Davidians (Waco), all the planned parenthood attacks, the attacks at Mosque's, Jewish Synagogues, etc. The KKK is Christian. Most of our domestic terrorist identify themselves as proud Christians. And that's just the US. Worldwide, there are plenty of Christian based extremist groups. There are Buddhist ones too.... Sri Lanka, India, etc. have them.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Scientology may be the only religion I can think of that hasn't used violence in the name of their religion... but they are still young.
mightyaa - exactly, you do appear to understand the problem.
but right now, as in not 15 years ago or 100's of years ago, trending, well I can't say it, wouldn't be PC, no?
it's dangerous to ignore culture and religion in these problems, and even more dangerous to not acknowledge the source of the ideology. Ban guns and some guy will figure out how to use a Fertilizer Truck Bomb.
A fertilizer truck bomb is certainly scary, but....did you see the article making the rounds today by the woman reporter who walked into a gun store in Philly and walked out 7 minutes later with a legally purchased AR-15? That's very little time to have to spend planning.
In the meantime, someone I work with made a joke yesterday about shooting people who try to enter the museum grounds without paying and it froze me. Too soon, or am I oversensitive? I think those go hand in hand.
so... why can you purchase such a murderous toy anyways?
I guess I'll never understand the backwards-as-fuck gun culture south of the border.
Jla-x, thanks. we're taking it day by day.
Donna, if the museum grounds are no longer free to the public, then IMA is really doing something wrong. I get the parking fee (and gladly pay it when I go), but just walking around Oldfields and 100 acres is a treat. It should be free and open to the public.
Also holy crap when did IMA start charging admission? Good thing they went back to free parking. If charging admission, those grounds should absolutely be free.
Is IMA hurting for money or something?
this is how the narrative is playing out, in case you think being PC is helpful....the Fertilizer reference was to Timothy McVeigh - restrictions now on Fertilizer sales ?-
so my two favorite cultural documentary shows are on CNN - Anthony Bourdain -Parts Unknown and Kamau Bell's United Shades of America.
In the prepper episode he shows a chart that indicates Prepper population went way up after Obama became president (compared to 9/11 it appeared nearly 4 fold).
If you only acknowledge one part of the problem - Guns - and ignore the mental and cultural elements - especially the cuttural - you are only feeding the crazy white people who love guns mentality to get more guns and better ones. Because you see the gov't ain't on your side prepper, - all PC avoiding the facts (regardless if the crazy bastard even knew what it meant to be a member of any religion) and taking yer guns....
so what is the KKK-Christian equivalent in Islam?
and then you wonder why Trump has support.
also, avoiding the facts, that all this craziness finds its support in radical ideologies, is irresponsible. Here is a white american Christian example so no one gets offended.
I'm willing to bet for every Plann Parenthood shooting or bombing, thousands if not Millions of "moderate" Christians smile inside and note to themselves "justice".
So stating a crime is directly related to a Religion is paramount, and who gives a fuck if it offends a whole bunch of "moderates" - its their Religion they are in charge of. Reform the shit or something.
religion is a poison that manipulates and controls. people do not think for themselves. they'd rather believe in 2000+ year old fairy tales dictate how they treat other people.
No Pastafarians have ever mowed down crowds or blown-up fertilizer bombs. Perhaps they have the one and only useful religion. All hail his noodly appendages!
Josh, yes, the IMA charges admission now, to both the building and the grounds. It's a bullshit policy and I hate it and I can't do a very good job defending it to anyone I know. The *only* thing I can say is that we don't get any monetary support from either the city or the state, so we're technically operating like a private institution. IMO the cultural payback of allowing people, especially those who can't afford an $18 entry fee, to come in to see grounds and art should be worth not making profit on admission, but I've long ago given up trying to understand the director's mentality, or the board's.
jonesboro, columbine, and sandy hook were not religiously motivated were they? this is more of an extension of those events rather than isis establishing a caliphate.
orlando was a mentally unstable person who was unable to face his latent homosexuality and had too easy access to weapons that can kill too many people too fast. to make it about religion doesn't address the core of the problem.
Curtkram - if you don't accept religion as part of any of this, I'll put it to you this way, there were still social ideologies that confirmed and supported the shooters state of mind to use their tool.
There are three parts: 1) Tools, 2) State of mind, 3) Radical Ideologies (that is the core problem, removing the tool alone won't solve anything)
The core of the problem (besides not allowing people to have assault weapons in their possession - who could even think that's a good idea?) is the state and federal slashing of budgets for mental healthcare. Expand that, because this country clearly needs it and it could help solve problems such as someone shooting someone else because they were arguing over something trivial, or because this guy was angry and couldn't come to terms with himself. He would have been able to do so with the help of a licensed mental health professional to guide him.
Also, Donna boo on admission being for the grounds as well as it further limits access but I get it. Mike Pence sucks, as does the Indiana state legislature when it comes to providing funding for culture.
how does 3) apply to the columbine kids?
There are three parts: 1) Tools, 2) State of mind, 3) Radical Ideologies (that is the core problem, removing the tool alone won't solve anything
Can you articulate the "radical ideology" for Jonesboro, Columbine, Aurora, Sandy Hook? Its easy to label the religious zealots. Is retribution a ideology? How do you define the ideology in the "secular" shootings?
damnit, trying to work here, now I have to work some thinking out...ok ok
don't know enough about Joneboro. Columbine - where to start, I'll just reference Bowling for Columbine for starting point, Aurora - not too familiar, and Sandy Hook is a prime example of affluent stupidity, allowing a kid to exist as "normal" and go to a gun range to be social who clearly had issues - but don't call fat people fat when they're fat - wouldn't be PC. Everyone deserves a chance.
"secular" does not remove you from ideologies. "Secular" is an ideology to begin with.
here I'll spin it around, let's say you invent a set of Ideologies for one purpose.
But somehow a whole group of certain "mentally ill" people latch on to it. as justice in their actions. Think of conspiracy theories of all sorts. Whether they are true or not and being understood correctly or not the "ideologies" you proposed "virtually" justify the actions of insane people. Are you then responsible for this?
Nietzsche had a deep hole to dig himself out of thanks to his sister and the Nazi's. (after he was dead)...
Is Nietzsche's philosophy dangerous?
IMO you can not apply rational logic to an insane person. Religion just provided a convenient excuse.
Makes as much sense as all the other ones.
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/religion
NS - that sums it up, ha.
oh wait I got - Gun ownership would be #3. Owning a Gun or not owning a gun is set of ideologies.
Insane people appear sane in Religious environments....if you hear voices you are hearing God or Satan, no?
z1111 - I agree, Religion is a convenient excuse for insane people to appear "normal".
yesssss.... but did Zaha Hadid design it?
get rid of clients and people as well, and i think you might be on to something situationist
situationist I think that's the goal of that pyramid building on the architecture folly thread. !!Pyramid Power!!
Pastafarians are truly the most peaceful. Blessed are those with the colanders.
Is that thread on architecture to protect from mass shootings any good? I haven't wandered into it yet because the thought of it exhausts me.
Are you sure you want to?
It might easily become a dumpster fire. It's controversial topic. Well the gun rights stuff that inevitably being debated. If the topic gets a little more architectural in nature, then it might be a little more interesting.
It might be a little more better topic once the discussion becomes more architectural.
However, Blair Kamin's article in the Tribune this past Sunday about it is decent.
Josh,
They might have 500 Billion soldiers just off the assembly line.
Congrats on the new interns, gruen, I think that was a few back but better late than never.
i need some pastafarian interns.
mind you I am a relgious bigot, i only hire pastafarians.
Ricky, it's only controversial because dumb-as-fucks like yourself make it so. You're a huge contributor to the problem and "pro-2nd amendment at all costs" stances are social cancers.
Pastafarians follow the only true religion. Olaf, any word on where the holy beer volcano is hidden?
oh yeah donna, thanks for indulging my penchant for bad puns in the serpentine comment section. Never can get enough of em.
Long bad pun threads make me giggle gleefully.
N_S,
You can't fix the social cancer by removing people right to own guns. Here is what happens in countries where people don't have Constitutional rights to own guns like the 2nd Amendment.
Remember the 1982 incident in South Korea? The Norwegian mass shooting?
The problem is a social and psychological problem. If you don't address the actual issues, all you are going to do is cause them to switch up the tools used for mass killing. That is what concerns me the most because there are far more destructive and dangerous methods that can yield far higher kills at once than an AR-15. I'm not explaining how or the means or the methods. There is some things best not spoken or written. The information is on the internet to do it but that is one of those things you just don't aid them by pointing them to specific information or giving specific information.
Ricardo, your "right" to own deadly toys is outdated and in direct violation of everyone else's right to exist in peace.
I spit and defecate to your glorious 2nd amendment. Fuck that shit, you ARE the problem and idiots like yourself have to be accountable for the senseless death due to your religious devotion to gun-ownership.
Now, run along and waste air in the gun-freak/murder toy thread instead of here.
Keep it in the other thread, boys. I'm trying to contain my rage today.
^ there is a healthy dumpster fire there tduds and Balkins' front-row seat is perpetually reserved.
N_S,
Get your head out of your ass. My right to own a gun which is your right as well. It doesn't mean you or me are going out killing a bunch of people just because we have a gun. Out of 200 MILLION+ people in the United States that owns 1 or more guns, the number of people who goes out killing people like this is a VERY SMALL percentage of the population.
Owning a gun doesn't means a right to murder people. Are you a total piece of shit to think that a person who owns guns are going to go out and shoot up a bunch of people. Are you fucking daft? Senseless killing has been happening long before guns and even if guns are not around, it will still continue. I'm more concerned about the alternatives that these people would switch to that is easily obtained and made and capable of far more destruction and death yield.
Given this is a PUBLIC FORUM, I am not discussing the alternatives. I can explain to you in PM but it would not be responsible to discuss publicly on an internet forum.
I tried reading the dumpster fire and it made my head spin. I might disagree with gwharton but he's by far the most informed person there. That's all I have to say about that.
Ricky, go waste your time in the other thread.
Rick, your opinion on guns is just entrenched stupidity emboldened by fearmongers with tiny genitals.
In all seriousness: your persistance in some threads is amusing, but if you keep ranting on about it here on TC I'll enforce my right to request that the site ban some people permanently. So STFU. Go bray on the appropriate thread.
Jla-x, we have a healthy beer discussion going on on the sidelines too.
Jla... I thought I knew beer, but I've got nothing compared to the others there. At the risk of sounding political... alcohol import laws are making my beer adventures much more difficult.
mmm beer.
I'm gonna dive into that thread once we print this CD set...
Does anyone have bare Homasote panels uesd as a tack surface at their workstation who could post a picture? I'm trying to convince my officemates that it's a good, clean but raw looking material and I can't find any good pictures. I have samples from AIA National, but I left them at home.
Donna, we have some of those in our main boardroom but the int-designers wrapped them with fabric.
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