Archinect
anchor

COVID-19 Lay-off Thread

2796
Bench's comment has been hidden
Bench

I actually put jla-x on the mute/ignore feature about 2 weeks ago, and I can genuinely say that reading the forum is much more pleasant now. Sure I still see some responses to whatever the hell is going on, but in general - No more wormholes of pseudo-science and desperate twisting of facts to fit a world view removed from reality. Highly recommended.

May 12, 20 10:11 pm  · 
4  · 
liberty bell

I’ve been doing the same for six months or so now and yes, it’s quite nice.

May 12, 20 10:23 pm  · 
2  · 
Non Sequitur

It was 13c in my house yesterday and it's snowed on and off since friday. I need the warmth and comfort of a good dumpster fire.

May 12, 20 10:25 pm  · 
2  · 

Yeah I ignored the giant douche known as jla-x / x-jla.

May 13, 20 11:11 am  · 
2  · 
x-jla's comment has been hidden
klouis

hey folks! Newbie here, just found this thread. Want to say it breaks my heart to read the stories of those who have been already been laid off. Seriously, I wish the best and send positive vibes, wherever you are. 

My story is Arch designer, small 12 person firm, mostly academic and hospitality. 

Most clients are still (currently) committed to the projects that were scheduled to start this summer, but waiting on gov't instruction on safety guidelines for construction sites to release. Lots of clients saying no more money (dont even ask!) for addtl services, scope or pricey mtls, so projects dried up real quick. CMs adding collosal sums to their fees to cover covid related delays etc.

Boss man notified us a few weeks ago that if govt funds didnt come in we would all have to eat a 40% cut until that happened. Luckily we got funded and are ok for now... My concern is if we have no active design projects and nothing new coming in, at the end of 2 months we are still fucked. Seems like we've only delayed the inevitable. 

That said, opinions? Probably time to finish up that folio and be prepared for the bad news?

May 13, 20 2:05 am  · 
 · 
sp429

Hi there. I was furloughed for two weeks then the gov. loan came in and came back to work. I am afraid that in two months I will be cut so I've been working on my stuff meanwhile. Hoping for the best but definitely expecting the worst. Problem is, no one is hiring...

May 13, 20 11:02 am  · 
 · 
thisisnotmyname

I, too, am fearful that more architecture layoffs are yet to come as the boom-time projects left over from pre-COVID times get finished off and the government money for paychecks runs out.

May 18, 20 8:36 pm  · 
 · 
zonker's comment has been hidden
zonker

If I get cut, then I'm going back to school to study S.E., I've worked in S.E. firms before. That's the area I'm best at, S.E. coordination anyway

May 13, 20 12:43 pm  · 
1  · 
drums please, Fab?

stealthy electioneering

May 13, 20 1:05 pm  · 
 · 
zonker's comment has been hidden
zonker

all of the above

May 13, 20 1:41 pm  · 
 · 
archi_dude's comment has been hidden
archi_dude

So two weeks in to partial reopening and the stats prove that full lockdowns were not needed just social distancing and extra safety measures. So as you ponder your unemployment direct that rage at the side of the political aisle, and media machine that forced us here unnecessarily. According to this first link, there are only 4 states with increasing cases. https://www.nytimes.com/intera... the second link shows a graph of reopening and either flatlining or decreasing cases. https://www.nytimes.com/intera... In addition if you are pondering if the risk was worth the lockdown regardless, here's a math question, what is 1 death / divide by 1102 cases on the USS Theodore Roosevelt? 0.09% (less than the flu) There we have the rare instance where the full extent of infections vs. deaths could be calculated. This could also be seen far earlier on the diamond princess quarantined back in February. In terms of NY, maybe the mayor should have started cleaning the subways earlier than last week and increased them vs. decreased amount if trains. Make sure your unemployment rage is appropriately directed. 

May 15, 20 10:40 am  · 
 ·  3
Rusty!

This assumes that Trump's team's own projection of 3000 deaths by June is incorrect, and that all experts that said this will linger well into the fall, if not longer, are also flat out wrong. Based on that article alone (which relies on reporting and not actual situation), it looks like we will hit zero cases by end of July. That would be absolutely amazing! All of this hoopla by democrats to undermine Trump's presidency! Luckily experts like you saw through this sham the second it personally inconvenienced you! Thanks Archi Dude!

May 15, 20 11:04 am  · 
 · 
archi_dude

Inconvienced? That is a very light way to put it for billions pushed into poverty, loss of jobs/careers, housing, millions of destroyed small business or family businesses, 100s of thousands who are now terminal who couldn't get heart surgery or cancer tumors removed for two months and the complete destruction of individual liberties. Yeah inconvenienced by bad models...that is an interesting adjective.

May 15, 20 11:15 am  · 
 ·  1
randomised

Isn’t it too early to call? If more people get infected because lockdown is lifted, it takes up to two weeks before they (might) show symptoms, no? And if they get so sick that they will need to see a doctor and if they then get tested that will also take some time before those numbers will show, I guess...

May 15, 20 11:15 am  · 
2  · 
Rusty!

archi dude, you are super biased on the topic, and will only accept information that fits your own narrative. That is a huge problem. Do you think there are actually people out there who are cheering for virus to kill people and wreck the economy? Well probably, it takes all kinds. But us who are inclined to listen to expert opinions are trying to be sensible about the entire topic. One sided voices like yours come off as insane.

May 15, 20 11:27 am  · 
2  · 
archi_dude

We are at 3 weeks for colorado, georgia not to mention the states that never closed but did balanced safety measures. Those states are still flatlining after 3 weeks.

May 15, 20 11:29 am  · 
 · 
archi_dude

Rusty, I don't doubt there is a risk with the virus. However, when an expert who is only an expert in medicine claims that destroying our society is the best way to complete their goal of eradicating a disease. I question f their expert opinion is actually taking everything into consideration. Yes the best way to defeat this disease is to remain locked down until a vaccine. However, I dont know of many collapsed societies producing and distributing hundreds of millions of highly complex vaccines. We can barely get Qtips right now.

May 15, 20 11:36 am  · 
1  · 
x-jla

Here’s the problem, my state was basically never really closed. We “closed” but just about every business was exempted. Restaurants weren’t allowed to have sit in dining, gyms closed, theaters, but that’s about it. Cases have been steady. It hasn’t been the apocalypse we thought it would be. That said, 75% of the people in the grocery store aren’t wearing masks. Old fat people in much higher risk category than myself not being careful at all. Unfortunately the virus has entered the lexicon of chick-fil-a and other ridiculous non-political things that have become politicized. People ought to be able to say, “hey, let’s open up but do so in a careful way”. Nope. It’s either shut down and make AOC dear leader, or open up put on a MAGA hat and lock door knobs. More Bundle package politics infecting the brains of the dumb masses.

May 15, 20 12:08 pm  · 
3  · 
x-jla

*and lick doorknobs (edit)

May 15, 20 12:09 pm  · 
 · 
square.

destroying society? you're using the same kind of gross hyperbole that you accuse experts of using.. your words not mine. many of the job losses we're seeing now were a long time coming (i.e. online retail vs. brick and mortar), this pandemic just sped things up. and the reason we can't get qtips right now is because we're overly dependent on a globalized supply chain, another problem that predated the pandemic

May 15, 20 12:13 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

Said this elsewhere but it bears repeating here: I'm starting to realize the extent to which people don't understand that a national shutdown was not "a plan" but a measure of last resort forced upon us by an absolute failure of planning. 

The pain inflicted has been worse than it needed to be (had we had a functioning federal government), but not nearly as bad as it could have been (had we continued to do nothing). Most importantly, the last resort shutdown was an emergency measure intended to buy the nation time to formulate a plan. In this time they've done literally nothing, so "reopening" now puts us effectively where we were at the beginning of March. It's an unbelievably frustrating no-win scenario.

May 15, 20 12:18 pm  · 
6  · 
tduds

"I am more sympathetic than some to the protesters, and others, who want to see states reopen, who believe the cost of lockdown overwhelms the apparent benefits. The economic agony is real, and they have been given no way to imagine its end, no clear understanding of the purpose behind their sacrifice. But the awful choice they feel we face — between endless lockdown or reckless reopening — needs to be understood for what it is: the failure of our political leaders to create a safer, middle path." 

https://www.vox.com/2020/5/13/21255221/trump-coronavirus-plan-covid-reopening-lockdown-liberate

May 15, 20 12:19 pm  · 
3  · 
tintt

I know 6 people who have had it and two of them died. All 6 were hospitalized. I started showing symptoms earlier in the week and called the hotline and talked to them for over an hour. They said I didn't meet the criteria for them to insist on getting testing, said it was up to me but the only way to get tested is to go to urgent care or the ER which I don't want to do. No symptoms today. Impossible to know without testing.

May 15, 20 12:41 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

What were their ages?

May 15, 20 12:46 pm  · 
 · 

I know four people who had COVID 19. One has died in the hospital (59 year old). One was laid up for two weeks in agony. The other two had no symptoms at all.

May 15, 20 12:47 pm  · 
 · 

There goes x-jla-x's self-imposed 2 sentence rule.

May 15, 20 12:47 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

There goes you blocking me...

May 15, 20 12:49 pm  · 
 · 

As for tdud's statement, I think it is spot on. My local government leaders gave us the option of choosing to stay home and prevent spreading the virus. Some of us did. Most of us did not, and they then had to impose a lockdown saying basically, "this is why you can't have nice things." If you were following along it was a very rational reaction to overwhelming evidence that we can't make the right choices on our own. This of course wouldn't have needed to happen if the federal government hadn't completely dropped the ball on testing and contact tracing. Not to mention listening to their own advisors.

May 15, 20 12:52 pm  · 
1  · 

I had never blocked you. I only temporarily block Balkins to make reading easier (less scrolling).

May 15, 20 12:52 pm  · 
1  · 
x-jla

Executive order to lower the retirement age to 55. Allow the high risk to stay home, low risk people can keep the machine going.

May 15, 20 12:53 pm  · 
 · 

archi-dude - Georgia had a shelter in place order from 4/3 to 4/30


May 15, 20 12:53 pm  · 
 · 
tintt

Of those that died, one in their 30's, one in their 60's.

May 15, 20 12:55 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

tintt, take care of yourself.

May 15, 20 12:58 pm  · 
2  · 
tintt

Thanks. I had extremely mild symptoms. I only called the nurse because I had loss of taste and smell along with some other symptoms like upset stomach. All gone today. Will continue to distance and disinfect. 

May 15, 20 1:09 pm  · 
 · 
tintt

archidude, Colorado has been open for three weeks? Where do you live? It's been a week in Colorado and some counties have stricter rules. Hopefully anybody who reads what you write doesn't believe it without some critical thought and investigation first. Everywhere isn't open either, it is limited still. A restaurant that opened and packed the house lost their business license.

May 15, 20 1:12 pm  · 
 · 
tintt

I'm looking at the map in the link you posted. There is a county where 1 in 14 people have been diagnosed Wow. I had no idea it was that bad. I knew it was bad, but wow. I am looking at the county where one of 1of the people I knew that had it lived. Wow.

May 15, 20 1:23 pm  · 
 · 

In Mesa County (western Colorado) we've been partially open for two weeks.

May 15, 20 1:30 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

Fuck. That’s sucks tintt.

May 15, 20 1:30 pm  · 
 · 
archi_dude

"Partial reopening" is what was stated. And again in no way am I advocating pretend nothing is happening. Just showing stats that seem to suggest partial reopenings and social distancing would have been just fine. Full lockdowns seemed to be the equivalent of using a shotgun to perform a mole removal.

May 15, 20 1:51 pm  · 
1  · 
square.

archi_dude your comments are getting dumber by the minute. hindsight is 2020. in feb no one had a great handle on how things were going to turn out, especially considering this was the first major pandemic in the us in 100 years. of course the shutdown was a blunt instrument; we were completely unprepared and uncoordinated, but it saved lives. it's only been 2 months, and now we're starting to see localities ease up and experiment. it's completely asinine for you to be sitting here claiming that you/we should have done something different, especially considering no one cares about your opinion, and you have no influence on any meaningful decisions. you're beginning to resemble the definition of insanity, so please stop posting the same shit over and over and see what happens.

May 15, 20 1:55 pm  · 
1  · 
tintt

Yet there are reports of several (most) new cases among those that have been social distancing. We aren't in the clear yet. Plenty we still don't know and understand archidude. You are clearly politically motivated and I think that's what saddest about all of this. That many people clearly don't care and can't be bothered to put some brain cells on it. But don't worry because that's why we have profesionals.

May 15, 20 2:30 pm  · 
3  · 
x-jla

Tintt, there have also been reports that 65% of new cases in NYC have been people isolated at home. It’s likely impossible to completely stop transmission.

May 15, 20 3:27 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

square, the problem is that the powers that be are now trying to save face and play politics. The media is not reporting new findings that undermine their panic and hide under the bed narratives

May 15, 20 3:29 pm  · 
 · 
square.

the powers that be

just when you had some reasonable responses above. again, hindsight. and that's not my point. i live in ny, and am happy with the direction we've gone except the fact that i think we should have acted sooner. if anything there wasn't enough of a panic. regardless, i'm not suggesting everyone in the country follow our footsteps, nor am i posting the same dumbass posts on archinect trying to claim i had to right answers before all of this started.

May 15, 20 3:34 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Y'all should just read the Vox essay I linked. It covers all of this.

May 15, 20 4:02 pm  · 
1  · 
x-jla

square, the initial response was appropriate but a little late. The problem now is that some states and media outlets are political posturing (left and right). Rightwing media is downplaying the threat, and left wing media is exaggerating it. I think Cuomo is doing a great job being reasonable and adapting to data.

May 15, 20 4:06 pm  · 
1  · 
x-jla

Newsom, not so much.

May 15, 20 4:09 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Am I correct in assuming that when you say "right wing media" you mean certain cable television channels, and when you say "left wing media" you mean different cable television channels?

May 15, 20 4:24 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

Mainly, but most media outlets have some bias these days. Cable news is still incredibly influential to the masses. I personally don’t watch it.

May 15, 20 4:43 pm  · 
 · 

I missed the weekly zoom call of right and left wing media companies so they could coordinate their approach. Can someone forward me the minutes?

May 15, 20 4:44 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

I’ve always had a hard time understanding why thinks like climate change or eating healthy (darn Michelle Obama!) have political associations. It’s very dumb. I’d say this pandemic is a perfect example of why we need to destroy the concept of a political party as we know it. The lefts strong arm tactics in places like lightfoots Chicago have caused a resistance. The rights nonchalant tactics have caused the left to demand more strong arm tactics. It’s a vicious cycle. Rather than seeking that middle ground, where we can be safe, protect the most at risk, and also keep the economy afloat, the politics have caused people to gravitate away from that logical middle and take on a more ridiculous position which puts health at risk on one side, and economic well-being at risk on the other.

May 15, 20 4:51 pm  · 
 · 
tintt

I blame football.

May 15, 20 4:54 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

In America, politics is a sport and sports are a religion.

May 15, 20 5:09 pm  · 
3  · 
tduds

jla: Thank Lee Atwater, Roger Ailes, and Newt Gingrich for that.

May 15, 20 5:09 pm  · 
 · 
midlander

what gets totally obscured in the debate is that Sweden is still sliding into a severe recession. the solution to pandemics is preventing them. there is no plan B - once the spread starts taking off, your country is fucked in various different ways. the ferocity of the debate about this belies the evidence that these situations are entirely out of our control (again, once spread is allowed). https://www.ft.com/content/93105160-dcb4-4721-9e58-a7b262cd4b6e

May 15, 20 6:30 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

Midlander is right. We're well past the point where we have the ability to make easy decisions. Any action at this point is going to be extremely difficult and at least moderately painful. Anyone who tells you otherwise is deluding themselves or trying to con you.

May 15, 20 7:10 pm  · 
1  · 
x-jla

I hate football, it’s boring.

May 15, 20 7:20 pm  · 
 · 

Sweden will be fine. They committed genetic genocide decades ago, they rid themselves of the week genes. Herd immunity! Go Vikings!

May 15, 20 9:08 pm  · 
 · 

tinnt , you mean soccer right? That beta male pussy sport right?

May 15, 20 9:08 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

I prefer soccer. The older I get the more I hate seeing people get brain damage for entertainment.

May 15, 20 11:13 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

I’ve been practicing martial arts since I was a kid, but can’t stand watching mma either.

May 15, 20 11:17 pm  · 
 · 
proto

My work fell off a cliff 3/10. I applied for unemployment 3/23, which was supposed to be OK for self-employed folk, as reinforced by the application instructions online while applying. 4/2 I received a confirmation of application, but I had started to get work again so I didn't follow through with weekly payment claims.

Today, 8 weeks after applying online, I got 3 letters from the state unemployment folks. Two say I don't qualify because I'm self-employed. The 3rd, addressed to "Self Employed" as the Employer Name, asks me to certify my own employment.

In the end, I didn't need this assistance. These letters would be funny, if there weren't a shitton of people who really do need this agency to work properly for them...

May 15, 20 3:50 pm  · 
1  · 
thisisnotmyname

The lack of resources for the self-employed who fall on hard times has been a major flaw in the USA system for quite a while. The past 20+ years has seen a huge de-industrialization and the concurrent shifting of vast numbers of people to gig and independent contractor status. This was not accompanied by the creation of a reasonable unemployment and health insurance system for such persons.

May 15, 20 4:24 pm  · 
1  · 
x-jla

Being self employed is hard with Insurance, loans, etc. feels like the cards are stacked against us.

May 15, 20 11:12 pm  · 
2  · 
thisisnotmyname

Absolutely. And the way that the USA government and media tout freelancing and entrepreneurship as the way to mitigate jobs lost to offshoring and corporate consolidation is a crock of sh*t.

May 16, 20 8:41 pm  · 
 · 
proto

and, they emailed me this morning replying to my 4/3 contact with questions (since the phone lines were overloaded)...and it wasn't even a focused reply, just a "contact us back if you still have questions"...

Also in the #headshaking category, SBA contacted me today too (7wks later) to continue the EIDL loan process...i'm trying to figure if i should continue purely with the idea of only asking for the forgivable advance...maybe just best to leave dead horses be and move on

May 19, 20 1:02 pm  · 
 · 
thisisnotmyname

I think there's a good chance you will get the advance (we got 1k per employee) if you continue the process. The money just showed up without warning in our bank account one day. We have heard nothing else about our EIDL.The advance is, however, going the be deducted from any PPP loan forgiveness we may get. (according to the rules as of the time I'm writing this)

May 21, 20 3:55 pm  · 
 · 
randomised's comment has been hidden
randomised

“Donald Trump may never go away, warns World Health Organization

The WHO has issued a stark warning that the world may simply have to learn to live with Donald Trump in the same way it now lives with HIV.“

https://newsthump.com/2020/05/15/donald-trump-may-never-go-away-warns-world-health-organization/

May 15, 20 4:29 pm  · 
4  · 
drums please, Fab?

posting onion links again?

May 15, 20 5:26 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised

yep, satire is so much closer to the truth these days than could've ever been foreseen. How weird that one has to watch comedians like John Oliver, Trevor Noah or Bill Maher pretending to be news anchors to stay properly informed!

May 17, 20 11:41 am  · 
1  · 
revolutionary poet's comment has been hidden
revolutionary poet

so whose ready to get back to normal, just with face masks? (I'm NYC/NJ area)

Was at the grocery store the other day. This older chick I think, tattoos and gray hair mixed in with black hair....was in tight cut-off jeans and a tie-die shirt.  I noticed the jeans were cut pretty damn short.  She noticed I noticed and then proceeded to check out first tea, then gatorade, with lots of side action hips.  I can't imagine what the fuck you reading on the side of that bottle!?!

 I was in line and the fat guy with his wife were behind me (at least 6 feet, calm down)....he started staring at her slow moving ass down the liquid refreshment drink aisle.  I mean he was staring.  It was a nice tight jean cut off assembly, but dude!  I mean I looked, but staring, nah...she had gray hair!


anyway, I wondered.  Was this lady actually attractive?  i couldn't tell, she had a damn face mask on.  Well the guy behind me was drooling and this wife showed up,  wearing "I'm a school teacher" t-shirt and she looked mildly attractive with a mask on.... I wondered, man this mask shit's fucked up, but yeah that older lady had a much nicer ass than your wife dude.  But with the mask your wife's still attractive?  

Critical Question: How are men to think!?

well, I checked-out, and wondered who the hell goes grocery shopping in their Ferrari..not joking, someone parked a Ferrari in the Shop-Rite parking lot......thought to myself, maybe old hot chick working magic in the mask!  or man, stocking groceries is the GAME bruh!

or ugly people will now get treated equally based on their bodies!

now hot chicks are going to complain about discrimination....


May 16, 20 6:39 pm  · 
4  · 
Non Sequitur

Sorry, my Hummer was in the shop. It was either the Ferrari or the wife's vespa. Gotta has standards, right?

May 16, 20 10:21 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

What if Trump released Corona on purpose to solve butter face?

May 17, 20 12:09 pm  · 
 · 

Wouldn't the Vespa have more space for groceries! Butter Face, haha...Shouldn't this theory be on the Conspiracy Theory or we already know this if fact.

May 17, 20 1:42 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

My Ferrari has a hitch and trailer fir groceries. Must have been another wanker then.

May 17, 20 2:12 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

"Critical Question: How are men to think!?" 

Not like this, thanks.

May 18, 20 2:44 pm  · 
 · 
Donna Sink's comment has been hidden

revolutionary poet I hid your comment about a human shopping in the grocery store wearing whatever the hell they wanted to wear while shopping in the grocery store. It was so inappropriate and gross. And I'm telling you *I* was the one who hid  it, not any of the other mods, because if you have a problem with me hiding it I want you to take it up with *ME*, no one else. And to quote the great badass Elaine Benes, if you want a piece of me, I will drop you like a bag of dirt. (RIP Jerry Stiller, one of the greats)

May 17, 20 2:39 pm  · 
7  ·  1
archanonymous

Thanks Donna. It read like the musing of some sort of drug or stupidity addled adolescent boy, not something for public discussion, and certainly not someone who is (supposedly) a professional in a respected (and at one time, classy) profession.

May 17, 20 2:53 pm  · 
4  ·  1
drums please, Fab?'s comment has been hidden
drums please, Fab?

'tis interesting what gets Donna all worked up. i mean, she posts shit like this about Melania Trump:

Everyone involved in this can go to hell. Children dying in cages while the white-skinned First Illegal Immigrant plays tennis on our nation’s lawn. Eat the rich.

and it's not only acceptable, it is celebrated as a 'featured comment'.  SMH!

now watch, my post will be deleted, and i will be banned from making future posts in this thread.  that's what happens when i call out the great Queen D.  OFF WITH MY HEAD!

May 17, 20 6:17 pm  · 
1  · 
Ancient Sheds's comment has been hidden

that's because Donna hates womin!wati, did I spell that right? how do fascist left wingers spell women?

drums fab?  I like that name.\]

May 17, 20 6:47 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

Donna isn’t tolerant of other points of view. She is always right and righteous, so any disagreement isn’t only wrong, it’s bad and evil!

May 18, 20 3:24 pm  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Everyone involved in this can go to hell. Children dying in cages while the white-skinned First Illegal Immigrant plays tennis on our nation’s lawn. Eat the rich.

May 18, 20 10:43 pm  · 
 · 
revolutionary poet's comment has been hidden
revolutionary poet

/\ ok. But what's the fuss? Since when is reality offensive?  Should one modify that gravity kills someone jumping out a 21 story building? 

May 17, 20 2:49 pm  · 
 ·  1
archanonymous

false equivalency. Should one walk up to a stranger and say, "hey, if you jumped out of that window you would definitely die."?

May 17, 20 2:52 pm  · 
1  · 

Your response to what that person was wearing was your personal response based on hundreds of years of dehumanizing stereotypes. If you want to write about how nobody besides you has agency and everyone's actions are only performed in the service of your own gaze then start a damn blog. Don't put it in a thread about layoffs in the architectural community FFS.

May 17, 20 2:52 pm  · 
1  · 
revolutionary poet's comment has been hidden
revolutionary poet

Glad you brought this up for moderation, seems timely. 

Why are science deniers on the right tolerated?

because science deniers on the left are allowed to speak as well and even promoted by a mainly Left Wing Media, granted if you google "News" Fox comes-up first.  But it's like Fox vs Everyone Else (that is amusing).

Literally told a true story and it offended some people.  You should really be ashamed of yourselves.

Right Wing Religion = Left Wing Political Correctness.

The musing, was about reality in a new world for the west.  Not wearing masks (something the "far east" has done for decades, as they deal with SARS a lot).  Next time I'll film it for you naive humans, because you know calling you men or women (biological) would be offensive.  The guy was drooling behind me, like drooling and his wife was right there!

Layoff thread benefits how?  This thread has been shit show forever, so why is this musing any different than the garbage for the last 1000 posts.

Apologies if I do not understand your delusions.


 

May 17, 20 3:24 pm  · 
 · 

hey bot, turn the power switch off.

May 17, 20 3:56 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

"Literally told a true story and it offended some people" 

Have you heard of this cool new thing called 'context'? 

May 18, 20 2:48 pm  · 
 · 
Ancient Sheds's comment has been hidden

I have a suggestion - Donna.

Delete all non-relevant posts to "layoff" due to "Covid-19"

as a Mod, that's what you do.  Who cares if someone had a political perspective, delete it.

This thread is about layoffs in architecture due to a virus and its social affect. That's it. That's what it's about.

May 17, 20 3:44 pm  · 
1  · 

Listen - Mod's...Paul runs one of the most "free " on opinion websites in general on the web. I would like to believe he was reluctant on the thumbs up and down....that's bullshit Reddit does, moderated mainly by Youtube loosers who failed in the real world... Social media is the demise of the internet and public opinion. I've been on this site nearly 20 years under various aliases. I would like to hope you old school peeps - Liberty Bell and Beta could moderate for architecture. Like delete the dude who makes new posts on your Op-Ed (even if I agree somewhat), it had nothing to do with architecture. Delete half my shit, maybe I was just pushing the limit! Delete pretty much everything Balkin's does (it's intentional mis-information to distort the profession). Make this fucking forum about architecture. I've been in forum's if you have spelling mistakes you do not get posted. These are highly intellectual, and if you're thinking deeply about something you should be able to spell, no? 15 years ago Archinect was social media for architects, but most architects now have social media and don't mix the two. I see nothing wrong with Archinect being mod'd for just architecture comments. Delete non architecture shit. I realize that makes some really old school political believing archinectors irrelevant, but who cares - NONE OF YOU POLITICAL BULLSHIT EDITORS EVER ADHERED TO HOW ARCHITECTURE COULD BE POLITICAL AS PER MR. WOODS. so give it up, no one cares you're left wing. To be fair shouldn't Volunteer be a MOD? That was my letter to the editor. Don't make me get drunk and email Easy-E conspiracy theory videos! hahaha (i cc'd peeps to show, not insanity, just art - David Coupland (a great Canadian like Paul) sees words as art - so do it!)

May 17, 20 3:55 pm  · 
3  ·  1
Non Sequitur

But, don’t mess up our cozy drinking hole.

May 17, 20 5:23 pm  · 
 · 
revolutionary poet's comment has been hidden
revolutionary poet

tis interesting what gets Donna all worked up. i mean, she posts shit like this about Melania Trump:

Everyone involved in this can go to hell. Children dying in cages while the white-skinned First Illegal Immigrant plays tennis on our nation’s lawn. Eat the rich.

and it's not only acceptable, it is celebrated as a 'featured comment'.  SMH!

now watch, my post will be deleted, and i will be banned from making future posts in this thread.  that's what happens when i call out the great Queen D.  OFF WITH MY HEAD!

May 17, 20 6:47 pm  · 
1  · 
x-jla

Lol. This is what happens when leftists get power.

May 17, 20 9:20 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

.

May 18, 20 2:46 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

I think architect should use Democratic mod....now that we have thumbs up/down, it’s should determine which comments get booted and which comments get featured. Down with the monarchy!

May 18, 20 3:16 pm  · 
 · 
Donna Sink's comment has been hidden

For the record: I haven't hidden any comment on this thread except the one by rev poet about what someone was wearing in a grocery store. Every comment following has been hidden by one of the many other mods on this forum. 

Lesson: don't post shit, because when you try to defend yourself you just dig yourself deeper into the shit.

This is a thread about layoffs in our discipline related to covid-19. I do agree with someone in one of the hidden posts who asked why we don't delete all of the posts here *not* directly related to covid -19 layoffs but only to tangentially-related topics of the politics of covid-19 and my only answer is: there are 24 hours in a day and I'm spending 12+ of them working lately. I don't have time to police a bunch of petulant children, but when things get as gross as poet's post that I hid I'll step in. With anger.

May 17, 20 10:02 pm  · 
7  · 
randomised's comment has been hidden
randomised

That escalated quickly...






May 18, 20 4:40 am  · 
3  · 
randomised

.

May 19, 20 3:46 am  · 
 · 
x-jla's comment has been hidden
x-jla

I think archinect should try a more Democratic moderation system.  Now that we have thumbs up/down, it should determine which comments get booted and which comments get featured.  

May 18, 20 3:19 pm  · 
 ·  1
x-jla

I respect your right to do whatever you want being it’s a privately owned site, but why not experiment with the platform?

May 18, 20 3:20 pm  · 
 · 

Do you have concern about people down voting posts out of spite? Could be a lot more work for the mods.

May 18, 20 3:30 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

Maybe, but overall I think it would be better.

May 18, 20 3:57 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

Don’t you like this Republican moderation system?

May 18, 20 4:16 pm  · 
1  · 

I want a third party choice for rating posts.

May 18, 20 4:41 pm  · 
 · 
zonker

I was 1099 from 2010 - 2015, luckily I went from job to job, and used savings for the times in between. Now, things are far more critical, people just don't have the savings, student loan debt and high cost of living. 

May 18, 20 5:16 pm  · 
 ·  1
randomised's comment has been hidden
randomised

(applies ALSO to the US COVID-19 response)

May 19, 20 3:47 am  · 
1  · 

The comments by both Autumn and Daniel in our Sessions podcast last week made me nervous.  Daniel points out that as construction starts ramping up again we may be short on labor, meaning everyone will be more overworked yet again.  But as Autumn points out that during this scarcity/survival time owners somehow feel ok asking us to do 8 weeks' worth of work in 6 weeks, because they think we're not busy. So the rapid response mentality may carry over post-covid. <sigh>

Anyway, podcast here: https://archinect.com/news/article/150197713/archinect-sessions-conversations-with-the-architecture-community-part-2-6

May 19, 20 3:07 pm  · 
4  · 

Eeep!

May 19, 20 4:25 pm  · 
 ·  1
sameolddoctor

We are noticing this for international work as well. Clients want to have meetings all the time as everyone is working from home these days. And this trend will continue once the lockdown is over as well.

May 19, 20 5:12 pm  · 
1  · 
threeohdoor

Yea, not great. Firm owners will accept whatever punishment presented if it means that can survive. For instance, after rehiring the firm back with PPP money, our principals are now sending out emails questioning our work ethic. Surely clients are putting the screws on them and thus, the poo water flows downhill. I almost regret coming back.

May 20, 20 11:55 pm  · 
 · 

When firm owners do that it's time to look for a new firm.

May 21, 20 11:50 am  · 
2  ·  1

Depressing to hear about that kind of poo water in the industry. People will justify it thinking it's temporary, but before you know it, you've been accepting it for years.

May 21, 20 11:56 am  · 
1  · 
midlander

you really can say no. if someone's looking for an excuse to fire you they'll always find one anyway. most of the time it's just people under pressure hurrying things because the sense of control distracts them from a situation that's totally beyond their control. push back. argumentative people like to argue; nearly everyone else will listen to reason.

May 21, 20 12:46 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

I've been pushing back on being available all the time. The first month of WFH was awful, because the line between work and home disappeared. I spent the past few weeks re-establishing that line, and learning to say no to meeting / call requests that fall outside work-time.

May 21, 20 12:50 pm  · 
2  · 
Dangermouse

Donna that is exactly what our office is doing: compressing project schedules to invoice early and often. 6 week timelines for 100% DD are becoming 2 week timelines. Management (all of whom have absconded to their second/third homes in upstate NY) has "closed" requests for time off. Its clear they're double dipping with PPP money and client invoices, and give zero fucks about burning through their junior staff most of whom have spent the last three months stuck inside 1br Brooklyn closet apartments. Sigh, indeed...

May 21, 20 1:00 pm  · 
3  ·  1
threeohdoor

Dangermouse, Very true indeed. This is exactly the situation at my firm.

Chad, the search continues...

May 21, 20 4:39 pm  · 
 · 

three - well if you want to move to the western slope of Colorado we're looking for new people.

May 21, 20 4:45 pm  · 
1  · 
zonker

As project schedules have been pulled forward, fearing another 08', clients fear the longer the schedule, the greater the chance investors and big banks will back out. It's back to feeding the shark and hoping it eats you last type of survival mode, pay cuts, longer faster hours, working for free, those of you with over 10 years exp. know the drill. Everday I wake up to numerous urgent Zoom invites, numerous Slack and e-mails. But hey, it's better than being unemployed.

May 21, 20 12:49 pm  · 
2  · 
77LightTemple
Word on the street is that Gensler made third round of layoffs this week.
May 21, 20 8:51 pm  · 
1  · 
Arc_verbose

I can second that, my former instructor got the boot last week :(

May 28, 20 10:53 pm  · 
 · 

I heard from a consultant that NBBJ is furloughing employees. The consultant works closely with their Seattle office. I'm not sure if it limited to that location or specific studios, or if it applies across the board to all studios in all locations.

May 22, 20 12:43 am  · 
1  · 

Curious to see a thumbs up on this. Wondering if fulcrum is confirming the information, or simply likes when people get furloughed?

May 22, 20 10:48 am  · 
1  · 

Both?

May 22, 20 10:48 am  · 
1  · 
curtkram

i just felt you needed a thumbs up to brighten your day

May 22, 20 11:00 am  · 
1  · 

Thanks curtkram, thumbs up for everyone. 

In other news, glad to see fulcrum around again. I hope it's not because they suddenly have a lot of free time on their hands.

May 22, 20 11:16 am  · 
 · 

Thumbs up means "This is a good/helpful post" not "I like this". At least that's how I'm using it.

May 22, 20 1:02 pm  · 
3  · 
SneakyPete

That's a useful way of doing it, and I probably won't ever see a thumbs up from you. :)

May 22, 20 1:09 pm  · 
 · 
amarchy
Yep, Gensler keeps making the cuts. Workplace design is their bread and butter so they have been hit pretty hard.
May 22, 20 1:41 am  · 
1  · 
joseffischer

I learned that GreenbergFarrow laid off about half their staff here in Atlanta... happened a while ago but I just got the news yesterday from a contractor.

May 22, 20 9:00 am  · 
 · 

wow - really? that's too bad. we were neighbors to them for a while.

May 23, 20 5:00 pm  · 
 · 
zonker

One of the keys to avoid being layed off is Zoom proficiency and availability - responding to slack and e-mail right away

May 22, 20 12:19 pm  · 
1  ·  5
tduds

Maybe others are better at refocusing but I find that responding immediately do whatever comes in is a good way to do nothing but respond to things for an entire day.

If you're "always available" you've given up control over your own life. I don't think the tradeoff is worth it. Delivering on time and keeping your clients happy, in my experience, does a lot more for job security than answering your principal's every whim.

May 22, 20 12:26 pm  · 
5  · 

Agree with tduds. If you're managers can't understand that you have to prioritize things, they shouldn't be in management. I've been disconnecting from zoom and email recently in order to be able to focus on work that needs to get done. I've also seen people block out time on their calendars for production/focus time so it doesn't get filled up with unnecessary zoom calls.

May 22, 20 12:33 pm  · 
2  · 
Rusty!

I have few coworkers who will ignore emails and messaging apps so that they can concentrate on "work". Absolutely useless. New normal is being able to "work" and also meet other obligations. I need stuff from you so I can also do my own work as well. It takes literally 15 seconds to snooze an obligation if it's not a priority. "I'll get back to you tomorrow". That simple.

May 22, 20 12:51 pm  · 
2  ·  1
tduds

Again others might deal with it better, but jumping onto something else - even for 15 seconds - breaks my focus. Sometimes I can refocus immediately, sometimes it takes 15-20 minutes to remember my train of thought. Multiply that by the dozens of emails that come in everyday and there goes the day. 

I have times blocked out to check & respond to email. I do my best to ignore it otherwise. There's nothing that can't wait 3 hours.

May 22, 20 12:59 pm  · 
1  ·  1
archanonymous

haha how ridiculous. Literally anyone with a pulse and a computer can be "always available." But there's very few who can lead the design and documentation of complex projects while meeting budgetary, design, and technical objectives. Guess what, it takes focus time to do that work.

May 22, 20 1:08 pm  · 
3  · 
SneakyPete

It's a two-way street. People get used to being able to interrupt colleagues and start thinking they can just demand whatever whenever. It's bad for the project. As a manager of humans, respect their time. As a human being managed, respect their requests. If you both do that, then the requests you get for information or work should be done ASAP, with the knowledge that it's necessary, not impulsive and thoughtless.

May 22, 20 1:08 pm  · 
4  · 
Rusty!

I have a feeling this crisis will shake out a number of people who can't keep up with basic project needs. Unresponsive coworker is literally the biggest obstacle right now. You have to learn to prioritize. If you are completely tuning out, you can't even do that.

May 22, 20 1:19 pm  · 
4  · 
archi_dude

Honestly I've noticed ed

May 22, 20 1:31 pm  · 
 · 
archi_dude

That getting laid off or fired sometimes has zero relation to how valuable an employee was. I.E. great employee but no family or mortgage they can afford to be unemployed and they get the axe. Just keep trucking at a reasonable pace and live debt free if the time comes.

May 22, 20 1:34 pm  · 
1  · 
square.

agreed- i've said this before, but going the extra mile right now and trying to prove your worth is ineffective. firms already have in mind who will be the first out, so do good work but no point in trying to go overboard

May 22, 20 1:35 pm  · 
4  · 

I disagree with Rusty!'s assessment of the "new normal," but perhaps it's only because we've misunderstood each other's points. I'm not talking about taking the entire day and tuning out. I'm talking about a few hours at a time. With people working from home ... while also parenting ... while also being teachers ... means that if you want to retain any type of talent that also happens to have children, you have to understand that they may not be able to respond immediately to emails or chats even if it is just to say, "I'll get back to you tomorrow." THAT is the "new normal," not some fantasy world where everyone is instantly able to manage anything that gets thrust in front of them or makes a sound on their computer. 

I've got coworkers that can barely manage to keep their kids from exploding their house (hyperbole) during normal business hours. They do most of their work after the kids have gone to bed. They are valuable members of a team and the team works within those constraints. When someone's kid makes an appearance on a zoom chat, we roll with it, not wonder how long before they get the axe. If a coworker needs me to respond in the next 15 minutes so they can continue their work, they haven't managed their work appropriately. They should be able to anticipate needing input from me and planned ahead ... within reason of course.

Honestly, if your firm hasn't addressed this type of thing, you need to bring it up with the firm. It's also not just people with kids. Maybe they're living in an abusive relationship and they have to manage that. Maybe the 24/7 living with their partner or roommates has caused some issues they have to deal with in the middle of the day.

May 22, 20 4:27 pm  · 
3  · 
randomised

That's indeed the new normal EA, at least from seeing how my girlfriend works remotely within a corporate setting these last two months.

May 22, 20 4:43 pm  · 
 · 

randomised, my new normal, or Rusty!’s new normal?

May 22, 20 4:52 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

++ EA. I file my emails in the morning, respond after lunch, and again between 4-5. 2 hour "time blocking" session on Monday mornings and 1 hour "Inbox clean" on Friday afternoon. Outside of that - unless I have meetings scheduled - I turn off push notices and try to focus.

I don't know about y'all but as a PM I sometimes get emails coming in every 10-20 minutes through the day. Even if I didn't respond, just taking the 5 seconds to acknowledge every message would ruin any chances of getting actual work done.

May 22, 20 5:06 pm  · 
4  · 
randomised

Yours EA, I hope!

May 22, 20 5:16 pm  · 
1  · 
liberty bell

tduds your level of organization sounds dreamy. I can’t seem to force myself to do that. I’m always responding to whatever is waving in my face at that exact moment. This, my most productive *drawing* time is 10pm to 2am, which is not healthy. I need to try your method.

May 22, 20 5:37 pm  · 
 · 
Rusty!

tduds: " Even if I didn't respond, just taking the 5 seconds to acknowledge every message would ruin any chances of getting actual work done." I guess we have a very different ideas of what actual work means. But at this point I am very used to a PM sending an email at 6pm in response to an email sent at 9am. And yes, that email pretty much negated 20 other emails that were exchanged in that thread. Pretty useless to everyone else involved.

May 22, 20 6:25 pm  · 
 · 
Rusty!

And I do agree with Everyday Architect, that people with toddlers are pretty much fucked. Besides not really being able to focus on work, they look like they are about to have a nervous breakdown. For the Xth time today.

May 22, 20 6:27 pm  · 
4  · 
tduds

If all I had to do was be a PM I could afford to respond to emails all day. But, alas, that's not how the job works.

Donna: I'm very much the same which is why I've yoked myself to the calendar. It's the only way I can maintain any sort of flow. You call it 'dreamy' I call it 'ADHD coping mechanism'

May 22, 20 6:41 pm  · 
1  · 

I'll fully disagree with the OP of this thread. I'm the boss, had 7 (including me), bringing some back, so back to 3.5 shortly (0.5 for free lancers).

I hate web calls, Zoom, Skype, it's a mind blowing waste of time. I can figure the same stuff out with an email far quicker and on my TIME. i.e. I can read your 5 page email in about 30 seconds versus listening to you think in a weird impersonal way outloud - via screen with an undershot of your double chin. I don't care how you think, get to the point.

By phone, I can literally wash some dishes, write an email and still have the mind numbing 30 minutes call of you repeating shit over and over. Obviously as the boss I can't not LISTEN to clients, so at least I provide the appearance. This is not to say I don't have good calls with intensely intelligent people, but Zoom is really a waste of time.

Pre Covid I had 150 meaningful emails a day I always responded to within an hour, 30+ texts a day usually from contractors, and about 20 calls a day. I also was already working from home occasionally, since I'm the boss my wife could go to work to gain some sanity (she was mainly working from home at the time). Having Adult conversations is important to sanity. At the start my staff could tell I was working from home because I would yell at them the same way I yell at my kids.

I do all this so that my staff can fucking focus. Lately I've been doing my own drafting, modeling, etc... and find myself terribly frustrated with myself if I spend more than 1 hour on anything. On any pre-Covid day I would probably deal with 30+ projects, ranging from reports to New Buildings, so even 5 minutes on something I'm wondering why is it taking so long...so now work 16 hour days from home, 8 hours of running a company and 8 hours of "production" or "design" (also called work if you're an architect).

So tduds would make a good employee for me. And like I said, Zoom is a waste of time, just like Youtube help videos - 1 hour of bullshit on the screen or like 5 minutes of reading....I fully disagree with this post.


May 22, 20 8:33 pm  · 
3  ·  1
Rusty!

This is top shelf satire Ancient Sheds! RickB needs to work on new material now.

May 22, 20 8:40 pm  · 
 · 
curtkram

set some agendas for those zoom meetings so you focus on what needs to be done and don't deviate into conversations about astrology (which i did yesterday. whatever). i'm not a fan of sharing my camera unless it's a social thing. i share my desktop instead of my no-haircut face so people can see the agenda or a drawing or a revit model (the reason we set up the call)

May 22, 20 8:44 pm  · 
1  · 
sameolddoctor

Yup. If one has too much self preservation to not respond to their principal's email or teams message in like 15-30 minutes, they seem like they are doing other things and not working. All of us have childcare responsibilities etc, but if you are clocking in 40 hours of work, better be available for those 40 hours. It doesn't pay to have too much of an attitude, especially these days.

May 22, 20 8:54 pm  · 
 · 

I do hate Zoom... and RickB (the super archinect bot)

May 22, 20 9:08 pm  · 
 · 
midlander

totally agree w ancient sheds on this. the advantage of written material is you can pace your speed to the importance of the message and credibility of the sender. whereas zoom meetings and videos take just as long for low-content fluff as substantial information. longer actually because incompetent or inexperienced people tend to be terrible at editing for brevity. (cf one infamous poster here!)

May 22, 20 10:20 pm  · 
2  · 

agree midlander. and it's funny my real life is read as satire and my satire read as offensive real life sometimes....it's the internet - c'est la vie son of e bitch...what can you do?!?!

and yes tduds is what I would be looking for in an employee, not a project manager, but someone who does the architecting at a high level.  project managing to me is just putting out fires and explaining stuff to people...see midlanders comments.


May 22, 20 11:06 pm  · 
1  · 
Rusty!

Wait, so that wasn't satire? uhhhh... So much to unpack here. Who the heck calls themselves "the boss"? Also, complaining about zoom? "I can read your 5 page email in about 30 seconds " Ah! That specific person that you learn never ever to ask more than one question in an email. You are getting your first question answered, but don't expect anything more.

May 22, 20 11:38 pm  · 
2  · 
tintt

I've adopted the strategy where I only read email 2-3 times a day. No phone calls unless scheduled. Don't need zoom for any reason. My toddler has in fact sent some work emails on my behalf. I think it gave me a few sympathy nods. He's also been screaming while I've been on the phone, and I had to just roll through it. Picked him up and soothed him, rocking back and forth while discussing something architect-y. I really enjoy working from home where there aren't endless distractions! UPS guy, lighting rep, someone dropping off plans, radios, phone conversations, banging keyboards, buzzing lights. Do away with that crap!

May 22, 20 11:43 pm  · 
1  · 
tintt

All the emails come at 3 am lately anyways. :/

May 22, 20 11:51 pm  · 
 · 

Rusty!

1.0 boss - the person who signs the checks for work performed.

2.0 Zoom - sucks and annoying.

3.0 No I can really read 5 page email in 30 seconds. If you know the context of the conversation you can filter out the bullshit, find the pertinent and respond. If you send me a 5 page email, my response is usually 5 sentences and just as effective.

3.1 Good construction doc CYA language is brief and barely English, TBD, UON, etc..."as required", "verify in field", you get the idea. Remember our forefathers in this industry are pretty much the Army Corp. of Engineers...when I need good spec writing, that's where I start. EOD that's what matters.


tinnt - what do toddlers charge for drafting?  I need more affordable drafters in this time of crisis

May 23, 20 12:00 am  · 
 · 

so Rusty!, last sentence to tinnt, not serious.

May 23, 20 12:03 am  · 
 · 

Rusty! code writing here...

under 3.1 the following:

3.1.1 As a young architect I asked my boss how to note a stair detail.

        3.1.1.1 My boss, the guy who signs my checks and knows              more than me due to decades of experience.

        3.1.1.2 My boss was a Navy Sea Bee, a Ivy League grad,  
        and worked in Japan for a while.

         3.1.1.3 He told me something in what I thought was English.

                 3.1.1.3.1 I was like what?

                 3.1.1.3.2 He repeated.

                 3.1.1.3.3 I was like Al (our buddy Miles Jaffe knows     
                  him) what?

                 3.1.1.3.4 Just write what I'm saying.

                  3.1.1.3.5 I'm like - Not english

                  3.1.1.3.6 - Just do it, I'm the boss.

3.1.1.2 Boss architect language, brief, succinct, accurate. CYA


*Al drove Bucky Fuller around in his convertable at Princeton dragging a multi-facetted-iso-whatever-dome.  Pretty cool story for a 2nd generation Italian American kid from Brooklyn first to go to college (not satire, true)

May 23, 20 12:09 am  · 
2  · 
Rusty!

I have no idea what I just read, but I'll drink to that. I like nonsense that entertains.

May 23, 20 12:25 am  · 
3  · 
Non Sequitur

I'm always a fan of a good Bucky story.

May 23, 20 12:28 am  · 
1  · 

Rusty! code can be confusing...

in the real world I just went through a hefty audit and an engineer who has been reviewing code for 30 years and I got into a debate and in no uncertain terms I said -

"you're an engineer! you read line by line, one track mind."

and "I'm an architect, I see the entire picture, the narrative, the history and code can't be read that way!".

....in short I'll probably lose, being creative is not supported by this building department ;)

True bucky story NS. I'm trying my best to remember Al's car but can't. He went to Carnegie-Mellon to get away from his mother as he said (strange Italian thing) and then Navy, Japan, and then Princeton and he had money from the Navy work I think and bought this convertible and Bucky was there and was like

- strap this to my car and then Al drove around in the parking lot.

Al pretty much fired me because I was a COCKY YOUNG ARCHITECT (KIDS NOW IS NOT THE TIME), but now that I'm the boss, totally get it man, totally. I would of fired me.

So the question is, zoom or not zoom?

I don't know. If you deliver damn good work after 2 hour hiatus on the interweb,  who cares right?

(I taught CAD, 3D, I know how long stuff takes and totally trust people)

People who have no idea don't trust and micromanage, but if they are your boss KIDS, guess you have to put up with that for a bit....?!?!?or not.

May 23, 20 12:35 am  · 
 · 
midlander

Rusty! But at this point I am very used to a PM sending an email at 6pm in response to an email sent at 9am. And yes, that email pretty much negated 20 other emails that were exchanged in that thread. -- isn't this just the essence of architecture work though, learning to judge what work can proceed without review and what needs to wait for input? if it critically depends on specific information to proceed that should be scheduled in, not just fit into the exigencies of daily routines. sometimes (mostly) work can't be 100% efficient; you're always waiting on information from colleagues or decisions from clients. remote work just exacerbates the inefficiencies we can overlook working in close proximity.

May 23, 20 12:48 am  · 
3  · 

you midlander should be writing architect practice books - this -

isn't this just the essence of architecture work though, learning to
judge what work can proceed without review and what needs to wait for  input

May 23, 20 12:53 am  · 
 · 
x-jla

I hate zoom as well. I don’t even like to face time with my family. It’s annoying. I don’t like phone calls either, because I can’t hear for shit. Text or email only. Or meet me in person. Covid is not going to transmit outdoors standing 10’ away, relax.

May 23, 20 11:32 am  · 
 · 
tintt

I can't hear on the phone either. It sounds like everybody talks with marbles in their mouths through several pieces of cloth while riding a horse in a car with the windows down and has some weird accent like Canadian. I wonder if I should get that checked out.

May 23, 20 5:54 pm  · 
2  · 

the Canuck accent thing is actually quite common....

May 23, 20 5:58 pm  · 
 · 
tintt

Actual conversation. Contractor "Boy am I glad you answered your phone." Me "Sure" Contractor (something muffled) Me "What?" Contractor "The measurements..." Me "Wait, let me get a pen and paper." Contractor "17 foot 4 and a half for the north wall, 13'7 for the west wall...." Me "Wait, I don't have a paper" Contractor "11 feet for the south or maybe south west wall I don't know what it is" Me "You mean the west wall? The one that faces the outbuilding?" Contractor" And vertical dimensions are 17.25 inches and 84 inches and of course 3 inches inbetween ya know?" Me "Ok, I got a paper, seventeen four and half for the WEST wall, is that out to out?" Contractor "Thanks, let me know if you have any questions!" Me "Can you just email me a sketch with the measurements?" Contractor "What? No. I don't email. Call me anytime."

May 23, 20 6:01 pm  · 
4  · 
x-jla

Why do all contractors love talking on the phone? I can’t stand it.

May 23, 20 6:44 pm  · 
 · 

tinntt, so they had their mask on and were actually not glad you answered and tried to garble it through...wait they pretended to have a mask on, contractors aren't the mask wearing types.

May 23, 20 7:01 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

Jla, no paper trail and no waiting with phone calls. The GC can make it even more apparent that something insignificant is on fire and requires immediate attention. Also, here’s 9 inferior product substitutions.

May 23, 20 7:10 pm  · 
 · 
tintt

That one refuses to wear a mask.

May 23, 20 7:34 pm  · 
 · 

tintt, then they really didn't want you to pick-up and garbled on purpose. sometimes they think they're smart, like will screenshot the call later in a text to you and the client and go - see I tried calling but tintt didn't pick-up...now they'll just say, reception was bad or just flat out lie...I just picked up one those Home Advisor letter type jobs, the client is a cop and uncle made the 4 year nightmare happen of a small addition, taking all money, and lucky for this guy he is a local cop and the local building dept. helped him out...anyway I told him - FIRST THREE LETTERS OF CONTRACTOR - CON... I mean dude, you're a cop, I get it, was family, but you're a cop.

May 23, 20 7:46 pm  · 
1  · 
tintt

That's one of my lines, first three letters...! I looked at the photos, remembered enough of the call, and managed to figure out what he was trying to say enough to draw some elevations that made the client rethink their whole approach and put the project on hold.  And that's how it's done.

May 23, 20 8:02 pm  · 
 · 
tintt

Actual conversation with an engineer. Ring ring. A very faint "Fmp." I say "Hello, Bxxxx?" Engineer: barely discernable peep. Me: Some stuff about the project. Engineer, quieter than a piece of dandelion fluff "I can't hear you." Me: "I'm having trouble hearing you too." Engineer: more indistinct mumbling. Me: "Sounds good."

May 23, 20 8:49 pm  · 
 ·  1

tintt...

Star Wars Welcome Young Jedi Sign by DylansPartyDesigns on Etsy ...

May 23, 20 11:07 pm  · 
1  · 
x-jla

tintt, actual conversation yesterday...Contractor-hey, you need to call client to talk about blah blah blah....Me-what? Contractor-blah blah....

May 24, 20 12:49 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

tintt, actual conversation yesterday...Contractor-hey, you need to call client to talk about blah blah blah....Me-what? Contractor-blah blah....

May 24, 20 12:49 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

Later I text after stop driving

May 24, 20 12:49 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

Me-what was I calling her about? Sorry, I can’t hear very well on the phone...Contractor-well I can call but would be better if you did. Me, no, I meant that I couldn’t hear you when you explained what I needed to call about!

May 24, 20 12:51 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

I’m a design-build contractor as well, and I never call anyone unless it’s to order a pizza of talk to my 96yo grandma.

May 24, 20 12:53 pm  · 
 · 
zonker

Well, going the extra mile now, can at least delay the inevitable, sometimes you just got to feed the shark hoping he eats you last

May 22, 20 2:00 pm  · 
 ·  4
square.

you can keep believing in this myth, but at the end of the day the firm will do what's best for the firm

May 22, 20 4:04 pm  · 
 · 
Dangermouse

i'd rather the shark eat me. i welcome the sweet release of death. preferable to managing a broken sheet set under needlessly compressed deadlines

May 23, 20 5:57 pm  · 
 · 
curtkram

i must not fear. fear is the mind-killer. fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. i will face my fear. i will permit it to pass over me and through me. and when it has gone past i will turn the inner eye to see its path. where the fear has gone there will be nothing. only i will remain.

May 23, 20 8:34 pm  · 
 · 
zonker

Like Rusty said, Many who can't do Zoom correctly, have iffy WIFI(don't want to invest in a decent WIFI, laptops, its a professional investment)  and are unresponsive will be the next to go. 

May 22, 20 2:04 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

Zoom is like hell on earth for half deaf introverts with toddlers jumping in the background like myself. I’d rather quit my job than do that bs everyday.

May 23, 20 11:35 am  · 
1  · 
JBeaumont

Zoom and Teams meetings lag and freeze up a lot for me at home, because I live in a very rural area where the fastest internet speed available is 10 Mbps. There are no faster options available. A number of posts in this thread seem to assume that "can't do zoom correctly" is always a matter within the employees hands - i.e. solvable by improving one's IT skills, buying the right equipment, and/or being willing to invest in better/faster internet. The only things that I would be able to do about my situation are move (pretty drastic solution), or drive to a more favorable location whenever I need to be on a virtual meeting. The latter is what I typically do, though of course these days there have not been as many choices for where I can do this from (no coffee shops, libraries, etc. open), so this usually results in returning to my usual workplace in the city, which of course we're not supposed to be doing right now. 

There are still some fairly large areas of the US that are underserved with internet options - and even still areas where nothing is available but dial-up. Bringing faster internet to remote areas isn't profitable to the providers, so only happens with government subsidies and other sponsorships, which are spotty and state-dependent - not consistent throughout the US.  Perhaps the current crisis and resulting permanent changes to expectations about working and learning from home will result in internet being viewed as as much of a near-necessity as electricity and running water - but so far that is not the case everywhere.

May 23, 20 11:57 am  · 
1  · 
JBeaumont

In my firm there is only one person, out of 40+, who lives in an apartment, and 2 others who own condos within the city. We're not at all unusual for our location - we are pretty much the norm in this mostly-rural state. The firm is located in the largest city in the state, as are the majority of firms here, especially those with multiple employees. Renting within the city itself is expensive and competitive - most renters are college students, those on public assistance, and a smattering of single high-income urban professionals - there's very little middle ground. Nearly all of the staff own homes farther into the suburbs or rural areas, within a 20 to 60 minute commute. We do have good internet in the city - as I said, I sometimes have to return to the office for it even though we're not supposed to be doing that. Several of us do not have good internet at home, because it simply is not available in this part of the state (nor is cell service). We've been doing fine on most fronts working from home, but online meetings don't work great for some of us. I'm aware of options to increase internet speed where I am, and have implemented those to the best that they can work, but the options are quite limited once outside of the greater urban area.

May 23, 20 7:49 pm  · 
 · 
curtkram

could be worse. in my neighborhood we're getting 5g towers, which is how the government is spreading the 'rona

May 23, 20 8:29 pm  · 
1  · 
JBeaumont

Rick, thanks for the ideas, but as I said above: I have already investigated the possibilities. Everything that is possible here has already been done - it's not that the firm is ignorant of solutions that exist - we have a capable IT department that has taken available technical solutions to their practical limits in this area. There is most definitely not a clear line of site from my office to my home - I live on the other side of a mountain range. The issue with Zoom and Teams meetings is that they are not generally scheduled by me, and we can't control the software that the OPMs, CMs, etc. use just because a few team members have issues.

To bring this back to the general, and not mine personally: wifi speed is just one more logistical factor, like childcare needs, job duties/role, etc. that make everybody's work at home success different. This thread has just seemed a little judgy about employees' abilities to control all factors on their end - that's all I was trying to get across.

As for living in the backworld: this is a big country and even the least populated states in it have hundreds of firms each. Forum posters often default to assuming they're talking to entry-level employees in urban locations, and forget every other demographic. This thread, for example, was started by a licensed professional with 35 years of experience, and yet you and others have repeatedly geared your comments toward "interns".

May 23, 20 10:35 pm  · 
1  · 
TED

Sorry @RickB that sucks but you seem to be a clever lad so wishing you the best!

May 24, 20 6:41 am  · 
 · 
TED

You're a clever lad nevertheless! :-) My bad! I didn't have my morning caffeine fix -

May 25, 20 5:24 am  · 
 · 

I too thought Rick had gotten the axe. I was about to give my sympathies then my brain kind of turned on and realized . . .

May 26, 20 12:53 pm  · 
1  · 

I'm glad you haven't fired yourself Rick.

May 26, 20 1:22 pm  · 
2  · 

If you did you could get unemployment I bet. Hostile workplace cuz of your boss and all . . 8-)

May 28, 20 9:34 am  · 
 · 
CodesareFUN

Something tells me we (industry as a whole) are in for another round of cuts when the PPP grant/loan requirements end in June/July. I was on a pay cut until that loan came in, but I can see that pay cut coming back. 

May 25, 20 11:34 am  · 
2  · 

Sadly, I think you're right. We certainly have not seen any sizable work coming in or even being discussed at the moment...

May 25, 20 7:45 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

This weighs heavily on my mind.

May 25, 20 8:09 pm  · 
 · 
threeohdoor

This is absolutely going to be the case. PPP was a few days late and few dollars short. I haven't read the bill closely though - are there provisions for rehiring/laying off people after the money is spent?

May 27, 20 1:50 pm  · 
 · 

@3ODoor - not sure what your question is but there's no provision for having to keep people beyond the 8 week required period relative to having the loan forgiven. At least not in what we read in the terms. Otherwise, you can do whatever you like - it's really a question of then having to pay the loan back (which no one wants to do obviously).

May 27, 20 1:57 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

All staff meeting on Friday afternoon... I'm only a little concerned, but concerned nonetheless.

May 28, 20 12:42 am  · 
 · 
thisisnotmyname

I thinks cuts will happen in July also. The only things keeping people employed right now in my region is PPP money and a mad dash to get all work out the door ASAP so it can be invoiced. Both of these things will be gone around mid July.

May 28, 20 2:16 pm  · 
1  · 
chazguz

Anybody currently in the country practicing with an H1 visa for a firm? How you holding up? I'm freaking out with what could be imminent.... 

May 26, 20 12:08 pm  · 
 · 
sp429

Yep. By the time construction comes back to NYC I will have already lost my job again, around early July. I've started my career at the tail end of the last recession so this isn't totally a new situation... will have to figure something out somehow to stay afloat...

May 27, 20 5:56 pm  · 
1  · 
OneLostArchitect

Anyone else been struggling with mental health lately? Feeling lost and a sense of hopelessness?This whole Corona thing has been a big shot in my nuts. I’ve been putting everything in perspective lately and thinking about tapping out of this profession ....but it’s the only thing I know and good at it! I’ve been trying to latch onto different avenues in the past years... trying to find an exit strategy from this traditional path... teaching architecture, building inspector, plan reviewer, government jobs, construction. Ive had interviews prior to the pandemic, and was never able to seal the deal. This was never an issue the past... so those experiences have been daggers through my heart.

My troubles with this profession has always been salary, no benefits, and lack of a personal life. My highest salary I ever received was 60k within my 15 year career (oh I’m also licensed). I made a huge lateral move acouple years ago which I somewhat regret but it was a nice experience and something I had to do with the given circumstances I was faced. Then I was able to land a big job at  a huge corporate firm for an amazing salary, bonus, and benefit package!  I felt that my time has finally come! Be patient everyone told me... your time will come! Well... it finally came!  A firm with offices around the world, this was finally my big break! and then the lockdowns were put into effect due to COVID and I never got the chance to start my first day. The position now is pretty much off the table now as I’ve heard they have laid off 1000s worldwide. A part of me really didn’t care as I felt like I was going to just be a number in this huge corporate firm. Just scratched it up as an... oh well. 

I was able to work from home with a previous firm that wanted to hire me back and then laid me off shortly after work dried up. Anyways here I am contemplating about life, this profession and I’m more lost than ever. 

May 28, 20 1:45 pm  · 
3  · 
square.

yes, for many of the same reasons but also others. i've invested a lot of time on the professional development side, getting licensed etc, and patiently waited for a few years, finally landing some really exciting, more academic/research opportunities that were my last hope at having some interest in this field. unfortunately, the rona has sidelined these and pushed the clock back even more, if they will still happen at all. though things could be worse (i could get laid off, but honestly that could be a blessing in some ways...), it's frustrating to see the things you've put years of groundwork down for vanish instantly. now my days are occupied with basically work only, and while i'm thankful to be out of the office, i'm really missing all of the external things that made going to work worth it, and realizing how much those things also helped cope with anxiety related to work.

May 28, 20 2:15 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Very much so. Doesn't help that I struggle with anxiety even in normal times.

There are good days & bad days. On the larger scale, though, I'm just "on pause". Still employed, thankfully. And fortunate enough to be able to survive if I lose my job, thankfully. 

What's eating me is that 2019 was the year I really got my shit together. Got licensed, got married, bought a house, paid off (most of) my debt. We were making 5 year plans. This was year 2. We were designing renovations, planning international trips, thinking about having a kid. Now I have mild panic attacks when I try to think more than a week or two ahead. I feel like we're going to look back on this as the year that just wasn't. 

I don't know how anyone *isn't* struggling with mental health right now.

May 28, 20 2:24 pm  · 
3  · 
molten

Same here. I keep telling myself that I'm lucky that I'm still busy/not getting a pay cut, etc. I live alone so that makes things a little tougher. Mental health is struggling (I suspect) because I'm still in the mourning phase of my old social life and daily routine. There's not one part of my "old" life that I don't miss and I realize how much I took dumb things for granted (ex. working out from home SUCKS). Even when things start to normalize, I don't see them going back to how they were pre-COVID. Which I still haven't accepted. Plus, I am so freaking tired of working from home. I am one of very few in my group of architect friends who does not prefer it.

May 28, 20 2:44 pm  · 
2  · 
sameolddoctor

I hear you molten. Although I am not in the "mourning phase" of my old social life, and am thankful to still be healthy when so many are getting sick, I am mourning the passing away of a parent, which happened in February. Working from home sucks ass, though, and combined with home schooling, not walking out to lunch etc makes it much worse, frankly.


May 28, 20 3:00 pm  · 
 · 
Rusty!

The first lockdown is always the hardest. By third lockdown in December you guys will be just fine.

May 28, 20 3:15 pm  · 
5  · 
Lululala

@OneLostArchitect - you are not the only one stuck in a bad place. I was in the first round of layoffs at the big G place last month and I haven't gotten my unemployment benefit checks yet. It's taking way too long. Also, I was planning to finish my ARE stuff this summer with only one exam remaining, and now all the Prometric testing centers are offering seating spots to 'essential' test takers only. So I can't even take it until September or so. I am getting frustrated with exam scheduling and financial stuff. But I gotta move on with my life though. I didn't enjoy working in that place anyways, but I do miss working in general. So I am sitting at my desk searching for jobs today like I've been doing for the past weeks.

May 28, 20 3:46 pm  · 
3  · 
archi_dude

Onelost. Rule out construction if you want work life balance. I went that route and while I'm still dissatisfied with the work life balance I'm satisfied in si many other aspects. The people are better, the work is dynamic, you have freedom and ownership on what you do, there are multiple career paths AND you get PAID. I dont care too much about money but it was just so frustrating to barely make it above the 70k range even with a license and have first my friends rocket last me in salary, then their younger siblings and then their significant others younger siblings while I stagnated at a low wage and everyone just assumed I was stingy and cheap. Because surely I had money, I worked way harder and longer hours than all of them. So initial advice, do research and do anything that just makes you happy. It's awesome to go to work and generally be happy. I never had that at the 5 diferent firms I worked at. Secondly, in this COVID time not sure how many of us can career switch since the old "entry" level positions requiring 5 years experience will probably come back. Been thinking myself and maybe you should try it, instead of grinding some low paid 1099 gig to stay relevant like I did in the last recession. If I get laid off, why not be something random and fun for a year or whatever. Like a captain, ski instructor, wild fire crew, deck hand on a commercial fishing boat. Just be outside, have something flexible and not grind at a computer for nothing.

May 28, 20 5:09 pm  · 
1  · 

I always feel lost and rather hopeless. I just distract myself with various outdoor activities and keep on going.

May 28, 20 5:38 pm  · 
2  · 

Your $60k highest ever with 15 years and license ,where are you? You should make double that....that tells me something...if not a lot. Mental Health. By all accounts I'm not healthy, but I find pushing the limits of existence, like if you fear heights step on the ledge and look down and ponder it, step back down, go into a deli, buy a burger and wonder the meaning of it all. If something makes you anxious, do it, like force feed yourself. After a while all this shit becomes meaningless stimulus that is supposed to get a reaction from you but it doesn't. It's just information that is supposed to have meaning attached to it. You are the one that attaches meaning to it, it's totally up to you. If you don't jump and purchase that burger, you might realize the guy making your burger makes less than you and probably has had less chances than you. Kind of makes those things that give architects anxiety (often just fucking paperwork) seem small. I'm not sure if there is a term for this, but when you get over that existential crisis filled with anxiety, doubt, depression, everything seems doable...hard to explain but you have to push the limit and then the question of balance seems irrelevant, because you've decided the way life is, is balanced...Changing careers is an existenial move in theory, but its best you make that move when it means nothing. i.e. whether you were an architect or a manager at McDonald, maybe it's best both are equally meaningless to your life....long day, hope that made sense. [disclaimer: don't stand on the ledge if you don't trust yourself, or at least figure you're scared enough biologically to not do it mentally).

May 28, 20 6:36 pm  · 
 · 
curtkram

ancient, it sounds like you're pretty into camus. i started reading the plague because i thought it was appropriate. then i read an article saying rats are overtaking the empty restaurants. anyway, i just came here to say i thought it was cute the eternal optimist rusty! thinks t here will be a december.

May 28, 20 7:53 pm  · 
1  · 

yes Rusty! is an eternal optimist, but they ain't as positive as me...The new normal will be, well that many people a day dieing is still ok, the economy will go on... "The Plague" was good, but I'm more into Camus' thinking pieces, which OneLost I recommend given your situation, but you should really only choose one of Camus' better thinking pieces based on the following: 1) If you think you would commit homicide in the extreme condition of mental anguish then read "The Rebel", 2) If you think you would commit suicide in the extreme condition of mental anguish then read "The Myth of Sisysphus" .

May 28, 20 9:35 pm  · 
1  · 
OneLostArchitect

Thanks Shed for post. Means a lot. Ill check out ‘Myth of Sisysphus’ and see it helps.

May 28, 20 9:53 pm  · 
 · 

Read that book when I was maybe 3-4 years into the profession (almost wrote depression) and just kept asking myself - why? why? damn near walked into a Marine recruiting office, glad I didn't. Have a firm now. As an architect you tend to overthink stuff, very cerebral, and Camus is good with dealing with the absurd modern human condition, which I think architecture as a profession falls into more than most careers.

May 29, 20 6:47 am  · 
 · 
square.

"The struggle itself towards the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy."

i'm also a big Camus fan (i'm glad to see he is having another moment), and have a little different take reading his work- that the struggle/existential doubt IS what makes meaning, and as such it's nothing to avoid, but rather embrace

May 29, 20 9:13 am  · 
 · 

Ancient Sheds wrote: "Your $60k highest ever with 15 years and license ,where are you? You should make double that....that tells me something..."

Depends where you are.  Major metro area on the east or west coasts - sure.  Most firms located elsewhere $120K and up is partner salary.  Take Colorado for example.  Even in Denver an architect with 15 years experience the salary range is $60-$70K

May 29, 20 9:32 am  · 
 · 

well that is depressing...that much knowledge and that's all you get!

May 29, 20 9:47 am  · 
 · 
curtkram

not so bad if costs for housing, entertainment, food, etc. are scaled down at about the same rate.

May 29, 20 9:57 am  · 
 · 
archanonymous

Chad, that's crazy. I make 50% more in a city with a lower cost of living (albeit close) to Denver.

May 29, 20 10:02 am  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

Folks, unless I'm misremebering, OLArchitect is in SW Ontario. That's 60k canadian. That's on the low-end for 15y Exp and licensed, but it's not terrible compared to the average. For example as per stats-canada, average income in theprovince in 50k/year. (2018data).

May 29, 20 10:34 am  · 
 · 
mightyaa

"Even in Denver an architect with 15 years experience the salary range is $60-$70K"

May 29, 20 10:34 am  · 
 · 
tintt

^ maybe for Boulder grads ha ha ha but not for the rest of us who can hustle

May 29, 20 10:44 am  · 
 · 
mightyaa

lol.. had a phone call and hit enter before I finished my thought. I've been six figures since about '95 in Denver. Part of that was owning a firm until 2015. But both employers after after had me over $100k.

May 29, 20 10:56 am  · 
 · 
mightyaa

Oh.. and I have to make a decision again. Don't like it here much (it's the corporate 'worker drone' attitude), but it pays well. I've been approached by a builder and the owner's rep to do design build. Commercial stuff like hotels, medical facilities, etc. working as either the architect of record or just on the ownership side managing the design. They are sort of ingrained into that medical tourism stuff building off-shore and/or specialty treatment facilities in the US. Lots of travel. Not sure I want that much since the guys I know spend all week flying around and are rarely home...

May 29, 20 11:04 am  · 
 · 
midlander

sounds fun to me. do you have children at home?

May 29, 20 11:24 am  · 
 · 
mightyaa

3 young adults still at home (18-22 age range). So that isn't an issue. The big owners rep kahuna is also sort of an arse. I think he's also playing dirty; just cc'd my boss an email that makes it look like I haven't done shit for a month on a project I'm working with him on... he's done this knowing its already a bit tense like he's trying to get my boss to lay into me again knowing I'm already at a snapping point and spread thin. So I'm not super excited knowing this guy would be my boss when he appears to be pushing the issues between me and my current firm to force something to happen.

May 29, 20 12:03 pm  · 
 · 
tintt

mighty, why not be your own boss again?

May 29, 20 12:17 pm  · 
 · 

mighty - I assume you're managing a firm and staff - that will push you much higher in pay. I know plenty of architects in the Denver area with 15 years experience who don't manage projects for staff and don't make six figures.

May 29, 20 2:27 pm  · 
1  · 

archanonymous wrote: "Chad, that's crazy. I make 50% more in a city with a lower cost of living (albeit close) to Denver."


Are you managing projects and staff?  If so that makes sense that you're in the $90K range.  Also just because an area has a higher cost of living doesn't mean you get paid more.   I live and work in western Colorado and my pay is above what Denver would pay for someone with my experience.  The cost of living here is way lower than Denver too.  


May 29, 20 2:28 pm  · 
 · 
thisisnotmyname

In my part of flyover USA, nobody other than firm owners makes over 100K. The only exceptions would be about two high level people working locally for federal government agencies and 2 or 3 senior technical people working in the tiny local offices of giant firms like AECOM.

May 29, 20 2:43 pm  · 
 · 
archanonymous

Chad, that's not too surprising as I can't imagine many places paying worse than what I've heard about Denver, but everyone's experience varies, as mightyaa shows.

May 29, 20 5:19 pm  · 
 · 
archanonymous

my work varies but usually i'm the PA, so yeah - managing consultants, client, staff, drawing set, no resources, too little time, too little sleep and usually it feels like too little money.

May 29, 20 5:20 pm  · 
 · 
midlander

MightyAA, I'd turn that down then. Forcing yourself into a closer relationship with someone who already (and openly!) shows manipulative tendencies is bad. I left my last job to get away from someone like that (and a raise)... so much happier in every way.

May 29, 20 8:10 pm  · 
 · 
tintt

I get paid pretty good here in Menver.

May 29, 20 9:18 pm  · 
1  · 
zonker's comment has been hidden
zonker

well, this is what happens when we live in a headless state - the Russians staged a decapitation strike on Nov. 3 2016, a day that will live in infamy

May 28, 20 7:22 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

You're giving that near 3rd world country way too much credit im(h)o.

May 29, 20 5:57 am  · 
 · 

Covid? or layoffs due to Covid? not following.

May 29, 20 6:49 am  · 
 · 
randomised

exactly, let's stay on topic here! before you know it people are discussing queues at drugstores and ferraris...

May 29, 20 7:30 am  · 
1  · 
tduds

Nothing worse than the ferrari queue.

May 29, 20 10:57 am  · 
 · 
sameolddoctor

Lets not be too woke and realize that China was responsible for this shit in the First Place

May 29, 20 11:44 am  · 
1  · 
sameolddoctor

All the moderators can do is to hide comments. Why is it OK to blame Russia as a rogue stage, while we can absolve China (the biggest rogue state of them all?).

May 29, 20 1:30 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

The virus emerged in China, and the severity of the outbreak in China is the fault of the authoritarian Chinese state. Similarly, the severity of this outbreak within the United States is the fault of the authoritarian United States government. These aren't mutually exclusive conclusions, and it's annoying to see the same people continue to bring this idea up in this thread.

Blame Xi for Chinese deaths, but blame Trump for American deaths.

May 29, 20 3:59 pm  · 
 · 

Not entirely lay-off, just job may not happen/continue (which is same in a way if it was many), but just too close for comfort and Covid related (I think and hope not).

Circa not so distant past - I meet the client on site, they are not wearing a mask (public servant, mind you), goes on about health conditions becoming worse out of nowhere recently, and I go  "Covid?", they say "no no no, I'm fine"...anyway they in hospital now, nice enough to email me that on follow-up on job...wished them the best...(job in a dark purple area on the Hopkins map).  

May 29, 20 10:52 am  · 
 · 
Dangermouse

Just got the axe, project holds have rapidly accelerated over the past month.  I'm surprised we held out this long. 

May 29, 20 10:54 am  · 
 · 

bummer dangermouse.

May 29, 20 10:57 am  · 
 · 
midlander

sorry to hear. what city / sector?

May 29, 20 11:22 am  · 
 · 

and region?

May 29, 20 12:10 pm  · 
 · 
Dangermouse

nyc office, mostly commercial and large scale residential work in the continental usa and europe. writing has been on the wall for months now, it was always a question of when, not if.

May 29, 20 3:30 pm  · 
 · 
zonker

The Covid recession could like the last recession lead to an increase in "house cleaning" clearing out the Average Jills and Joes

May 29, 20 4:24 pm  · 
1  ·  1
dominiond

Not a lot of empathy, there, eh?

May 29, 20 5:34 pm  · 
 · 
thisisnotmyname

If code is saying that the boom time has ended when a person could do only a fair-to-middling job and be totally secure employment wise, code is not wrong.

May 29, 20 5:48 pm  · 
 ·  1

commercial real estate (offices) has been severely impacted - would you take an elevator everyday now? maybe 5 times a day. I forsee adaptive re-use of unrented commercial spaces (client who does commercial real estate in NYC noted a 95% drop in work in the past few months).

May 29, 20 5:53 pm  · 
 · 
square.

If code is saying that the boom time has ended when a person could do only a fair-to-middling job and be totally secure employment wise, code is not wrong.

this is such an american attitude.. rugged individualism! only the "exceptional" deserve employment aka means for their survival! meanwhile, let's continue to exploit and squeeze everything we can out of those "exceptional" workers who should consider themselves lucky!!

this profession (in its current form) is not long for the world..

May 30, 20 11:35 am  · 
 · 
dominiond

Overseas friends in Asia and Europe- if your company had layoffs, any signs of confidence rebounding? Are banks/governments lending or funding projects again in your markets so projects can start again?


Take care of each other all-

May 29, 20 5:36 pm  · 
 · 
s2smooth

Hi all,

Long time lurker and first time posting. I too was apart of the laid-off crew. I figured I will use the time to study for my licensure exams and try to work for myself starting with family and friends.

 I will see how it goes but some days I want to quit it all and get a new profession. I was lucky to be able to buy a 3 unit building 4 days before being laid off so maybe Ill just be a landlord/ developer and try that route.

I hope everyone bounces back from this.

May 29, 20 9:17 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

Another week, another ominous all staff meeting, another whiskey toast to continued employment.

The runway is getting shorter, though.

May 30, 20 12:03 am  · 
7  · 
zonker

yup, just passed the 8,000 fit marker, may have to eject

Jun 1, 20 12:08 am  · 
 · 
newguy

Got notice today.  Was waiting for the shoe to drop after shelter in place so it was not completely unexpected as I was on a project that was stalling out.  Entered the workforce in 2008, went up against the same thing and went to grad school to ride it out.  Racked up a ton of student loan debt, but I thankfully (and aggressively) paid them off just this past year so I'm not completely screwed just yet (although goddamn would I rather have not had any loans and instead have that money in a bank account right now).  I'm eligible for re-hire when/should the rebound occur, and am in good standing with a few previous employers.  But I'll probably take some time to consider whether or not I really want to stay in this profession or pivot to something more rewarding (either spiritually or financially).  Oh well, at least now I can go join those protesters.

Onward

Jun 3, 20 1:03 am  · 
3  · 
TED

Good Luck - remember there are many pathways you can pursue Good you got your debt under control - take time and be kind to yourself.

Jun 3, 20 3:18 am  · 
 · 
mega_pointe

I work at a ~65 person firm in Indiana that has yet to have any layoffs, though our 3 month outlook looks grim. We've been told that we secured the PPP Loan, but firm leadership hasn't been transparent about how that has been utilized to date (if at all) or when they expect they will need it. My hope is that if we continue to see low billings we will reduce hours by 10% and then 20% before laying anyone off. 

Jun 3, 20 8:28 am  · 
1  · 

relative to the PPP, if they expect to have it forgiven, there's a pretty strict protocol on how the money is to be spent, with 75% of it (minimum) having to go to payroll. there's a whole list of things it can't be used for. that said, if billings are only down 20% consider yourselves fortunate. for most firms, that number starts at 20% and is probably a lot closer to 40% by now.

Jun 3, 20 11:25 am  · 
2  · 
mega_pointe

I'm not sure about the exact percentage of reduced billings, but for the next 3 months we don't have enough contracted work to hit our 'break even' which pays salaries and overhead.

Jun 3, 20 11:33 am  · 
 · 

then you are most certainly at least 15-20% under your normal billings.

Jun 3, 20 11:42 am  · 
1  · 

Anyone hired back?

Jun 6, 20 9:22 am  · 
 · 
sp429

I was hired back when the firm got the PPP loan. Will be let go early July. There are no new projects and a LOT of architects are already unemployed and looking in NYC.

Jun 8, 20 3:14 pm  · 
 · 
threeohdoor

Yep, same for me in NYC. Was hired back, fully expect to get the boot again in July.

Jun 9, 20 10:10 am  · 
 · 

getting those vibes for sure....

Jun 10, 20 12:10 pm  · 
 · 

We are getting  s u p e r   s l o w  here.  Colorado cut their education funding by 15% when there is already a $1.5 billion school funding deficit.  The two new school projects we got will take up to four years before the district can get enough funding from the state, pass the needed bonds, and get a BEST grant so the projects can move forward.  

Time to update the portfolio.  

Jun 8, 20 2:53 pm  · 
 · 

Our last email from leadership noted that thanks to everyone taking 40 hrs PTO + other related measures, furloughs were the NEXT thing not now...so that's good I guess? I know a friend in Bay area who got PPP but from our chat sounds more like to stem the losses not rehire staff.

Jun 9, 20 12:41 am  · 
 · 

Nam - our PPP is functioning in a similar way. We have not found nearly enough replacement work yet.

Jun 11, 20 1:51 pm  · 
1  · 
Non Sequitur

We're re-opening our office within the next few weeks once they figure out some desk reshuffling. Some staff kept a steady 40hr/week while some managed half-time due to lack of daycare.  Everyone got their full salaries regardless of hours worked.  

My Gov has also given the green light for patios, shopping malls, hair salons, etc to open up as of this friday.  Progress and pints in the sun, soon.


Jun 9, 20 10:18 am  · 
1  · 

Jealous of Canada.

Jun 10, 20 3:44 pm  · 
1  · 

The pandemic life has definitely led to some harder thoughts about where we'd rather be long-term. Not sure we can make it happen before Wave 2...

Jun 18, 20 2:02 am  · 
 · 
zonker

Open air dinning in SF, Bay Area opening very slow - all construction projects are in progress, our office is hiring

Jun 9, 20 4:20 pm  · 
 · 

NYS on TV  is promoting the LaGuardia Airport Project (governor and all), which firm is doing that? or even look at the CM/GC?


Just realized something.  I am now watching essentially state run Television, you know like NK or USSR, everyday Coumo gets on there and discusses what's going on with the Pandemic etc..

Interesting to note, they post data and facts versus Cable TV....



Jun 10, 20 12:12 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Interesting to note, you can change the fucking channel to OANN if that's more your speed. Try doing that in one of your fucking fever dream example countries.

Jun 10, 20 12:50 pm  · 
 · 

you take your meds today?

Jun 10, 20 1:26 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Says the person unable to distinguish reality from fantasy.

Jun 10, 20 1:36 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

"I am now watching essentially state run Television" 

No you're not.

Jun 10, 20 2:32 pm  · 
 · 

your knee jerk reaction is amusing to say the least. interesting to note what I actually said was "Interesting to note, they post data and facts versus Cable TV...." read carefully next time. I just made an argument for state run television or in other words noted that cable news is what we associate with NK and USSR state media run television.... stop social mediating, it may help you think more clearly.

Jun 10, 20 6:56 pm  · 
 · 

The TV cut off right after the head of the LGA airport project noted how many dollars were up for grabs for local business and Minority and Women owned business. Let me know if you learn about this through your channels of information?

Jun 10, 20 6:58 pm  · 
 · 
zonker

And no vacations until this recession is over. What happens, is you go on holiday, and they get someone else to fill in, they decide they like that person better, and when you come back, they assign you to doing wall tags, graphical and other mindless work, or they just lay you off. From 2010 > 2016, I did not take a vacation.

Jun 10, 20 12:31 pm  · 
 ·  3
Non Sequitur

"From 2010 > 2016, I did not take a vacation.

 That's a pretty shitty workplace you're involved with.

Jun 10, 20 12:34 pm  · 
9  · 
square.

seriously. if your office isn't interested in allowing you to exercise your benefits, then it is an exploitative situation. time to move on. my boss encouraged me to take a vacation i had planned before this all went down.

Jun 10, 20 12:39 pm  · 
4  · 
gibbost

That's terrible policy--for both employee and employer. If what you're saying is accurate, then you're sitting on hundreds of hours of PTO. Not sure about your situation, but most small offices are not interested in employees caring thousands of dollars in accrued vacation--which they would have to pay out if you quit or they laid you off. There's a reason the unions fought for vacation time--your mind and body need a break. Staying at work just to keep the seat warm sounds like a dreadful career choice.

Jun 10, 20 12:49 pm  · 
4  · 

code has previously disclosed their acceptance of exploitative and abusive work practices in attempts to justify it as normal in the industry. Once again ... this is not normal and should not be accepted.

Jun 10, 20 2:27 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

We've been encouraged to continue using our PTO (not just taking time off, but taking *paid* time off). "You earned it, it's yours, take it" is the message from the top, which I really appreciate.

Jun 10, 20 2:31 pm  · 
3  · 
SneakyPete

I've heard of firms bandying about the idea of forced PTO during Covid, which I think is pretty lame. No extra PTO, but you're forced to use it. 

Jun 10, 20 2:45 pm  · 
 · 

We've been encouraged to use PTO as necessary for our emotional and mental health as well as just in general during this time. I forget the exact wording, but one of the last communications from the CEO to the office indicated that project teams will manage if you need to take time. We've even had larger meetings rescheduled to accommodate people's participation in planned protests and marches. We didn't even have that happen for the Global Climate Strike last year (the firm basically said you could take the time to participate, but it was largely business as usual).

Jun 10, 20 2:58 pm  · 
 · 
shellarchitect

We were briefly required to use pto. My intention is to make up for it later by leaving early most fridays . Our hours have been cut to 32, which I really like.

Jun 10, 20 3:38 pm  · 
 · 
square.

unfortunately the 1099 situation is common enough to almost be called normal (at least in nyc), but definitely not the norm. i had to do this at one very small firm i worked at, but left after a few months as soon as i was offered a job with actual benefits and better pay. having experienced the last recession, i knew the writing was on the wall- fast forward and i now have great job security, good benefits, and a great boss. part of our work has to be avoiding those types of offices that abuse the 1099 system; it's one thing to lean on now and again (especially if you can leverage the flexibility), but to suffer through it for years makes you complicit.

Jun 10, 20 3:47 pm  · 
 · 

@shell, we were all req to take at least 40 hours of PTO (for those that had at least that) presumably for cash-flow/budgetary reasons. Planned liabilities vs payroll? Though better than furlough I suppose...

Jun 18, 20 2:05 am  · 
 · 

Block this user


Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?

  • ×Search in: