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COVID-19 Lay-off Thread

1907
archi_dude's comment has been hidden
archi_dude

Seems SoCal gave up. Drove to the jobsite for the afternoon shift and retail is definitely open, cars are circling my place for parking, theres Friday traffic on the freeways and surf boards in the back of most trucks. I guess you dont go full facist lockdown and then end up laying off nurses becuase hospitals are so empty and expect people to still take things seriously. Bummer becuase now we probably will get a surge if everyone is this nonchalant. 

May 8, 20 5:03 pm  · 
 · 
sameolddoctor

Shut your ramblings, dude. You were one of the ones advocating for opening up shit, and now you are the one complaining. lol.

 · 
archi_dude

Nah have always been for an intelligent balanced approach. Anyway looks like we are there at least in SoCal.

 · 
SneakyPete

do you ever use both sides of your mouth to speak at the SAME TIME?

1  · 

If you can do that, both sides of your mouth, you can run for office! Pretty sure I saw a dude either dead or nearly dead today in the city and many ambulances...have some essential jobs in the city hit hardest....but was good to see the junkies and homeless guys without masks just yelling and screaming, always comforting.

 · 
x-jla

I’m going to practice social distancing permanently. It’s relaxing.

1  · 
RickB-Astoria

jla-x now x-jla...... okay.... what happened... old account got banned?

 · 
x-jla

Nope.

 · 

It's just hoping that no one will notice and will treat it differently. That or it's just a not very creative or intelligent person trying to troll a bit. Actually both could be correct.

 · 
SneakyPete

According to my ignore settings, which follow you around when the name listed is altered, it's the same fool.

 · 
x-jla

I’m a condensed version. 2 sentence KOs only.

 · 

Your fat ass hasn't knocked anyone out in any sense every.

 · 
x-jla

The soy is making you emotionally unstable.

 · 
Tex_arch

I’m a registered architect who started her career in 1985, 35 years ago. I’ve ridden out at least five major downturns in the economy. I’ve worked at big firms and small ones and am finally self-employed. Architecture firms hire when times are good and they lay off when they don’t have enough work. It’s always been that way and there’s nothing special or unique about your firm. Unemployment is especially tough on young architects and I pray that this current crisis passes as quickly as possible for you guys.

May 11, 20 2:01 pm  · 
4  · 
getty218

I second that. For a long time I was the last hired first fired. I survived the first round of cuts this time, but I'm not optimistic about the future.

 · 
code's comment has been hidden
code

I remember 08' and 09' - there will be no bounce as Trump says there will be - this will be a long slog before it it ever gets back to the level things were at in January. 

May 11, 20 5:05 pm  · 
2  ·  2
drums please, Fab?

but this is Trump not Obama

 ·  1
tduds

So it'll be worse.

 · 
x-jla

Obama was better at looking and sounding good. He was better than trump on many things, strengthening the economy wasn’t one.

 · 

Try harder.

 · 
tduds

The economy under Obama steadily and somewhat sustainably grew. The economy under Trump, until 2020, was about juicing growth at all costs, creating a wildly fragile status quo, & hoping the bubble would hold until after the election. It didn't.

 · 
x-jla

I disagree. Obama further globalized the economy, specifically with China, which made us vulnerable to scenarios like this.

 · 
curtkram

pretty sure Obama had CDC staff in Beijing that was cut during the Trump administration

 · 
tduds

Obama's entire two-term global strategy (the "Pivot to Asia") anticipated China's rising power in the region as a future challenge to American global policy and, had it not been killed by cynical partisan obstruction - I believe - would have emerged over the coming years / decades as the defining policy doctrine of the 21st century. 

The TPP, for one example, was deliberately indented to reduce China's hemispheric influence. But a bunch of jingoistic ideologues who think the US can just snap their fingers and reclaim manufacturing supremacy torpedoed it. 

Anyway, none of this has to do with COVID so I'll leave it at that, but with some due respect you're entitled to your opinion but it would seem you're out of your depth on the history here.

1  · 
tduds

Trade with China did not make us vulnerable to pandemic. The slow dismantling of the instruments of pandemic response starting in 2017 made us vulnerable to a pandemic, and the absolute abdication of federal responsibility in the face of the pandemic has created an entirely avoidable crisis. Not only was all of this predictable - it was predicted. If you actually care I can come back with plenty of examples.

1  · 
x-jla

Yes it did. It made us technically vulnerable in regards to drug production and medical equipment, but more importantly it made the world less vigilant towards a dangerous communist authoritarian regime.

 · 
x-jla

the WHO acting as a parrot for the CCP is directly related to the economic position of China that we helped put them in.

 · 
archi_dude's comment has been hidden
archi_dude

2nd waves and reimposed lockdowns in contact tracing/testing stars, Germany, South Korea, China, Signapore. Meanwhile, Sweden sustainably soldiers on with social distancing guidelines. 

May 12, 20 9:38 am  · 
 · 
square.

if you actually followed the news you would see that sweden are reconsidering their guidelines because of the obscenely high death rate among the elderly.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-12/covid-infection-rate-drops-in-denmark-after-lockdown-relaxed

 · 
archi_dude

Additionally resources for the elderly is not reconsidering their guidelines.

 · 
archi_dude

*Additional

 · 
square.

Sweden will adjust a key corner of its strategy for dealing with Covid-19, after the death rate at care homes spiraled out of control.


it's literally in the title of the article and the first sentence. very simple line of reasoning: this adjustment is necessary because their initial strategy has created an overwhelming burden on elderly populations (also note the total death rate is 32/100000 compared to US at 24). you might not care, but others do, hence the necessary readjustment. denmark's strategy is appearing more reasonable now.

 · 
SneakyPete

"My one example proves everything." -Scientists

 · 
x-jla

The Swedish are taking a more scientific approach. The rest of the world is taking an emotional and political approach.

 · 
x-jla

They understand that flattening the curve just extends the crisis into the future. They will eventually reach herd immunity faster than the rest of the world, and the numbers will equal out then.

 · 

Try harder.

 · 
x-jla

Are you going to follow me around like a salty x girlfriend?

2  · 

Nope. You're all over the forms like a needy child wanting attention. Typing 'try harder' is easier, and faster than saying your an idiot and explaining why.

1  · 
drums please, Fab?

hey!

2  · 

I stand by my statements regarding jla-x / x-jla. If he/she wants to be a troll then he/she needs to be accountable for their posts and the flack they generate. I will concede though and simply ignore her/his troll posts from now on.

1  · 
randomised

Problem with Sweden is, the staff in nursing/elderly homes doesn't or didn't wear face masks or had access to hand sanitiser , so all the asymptomatic nurses and other staff brought covid into those places. That still does not necessarily mean the Swedes should've locked down like the rest of 'em...it just puts their numbers in perspective.

 · 
drums please, Fab?

i just kidding! but seriously, what if he/she is non-binary? we don't all fit in your tidy little boxes you know!

1  · 

It's also important to note that a large percentage of Sweden's population lives in a single person household / dwelling.

 · 
x-jla

It’s also important to note that the nursing homes should and could be treated way differently than the general public. As more and more antibody study results trickle in it is becoming obvious that this poses little danger to most healthy people as the overall cfr lingers around 0.3.

 · 

I don't know what info you're referring to, everything I've seen has stated that antibodies are not proven to protect you from future infection. Do you have a link?

 · 
x-jla

Antibodies indicate infection. The True number of people infected is far greater than the official recorded numbers suggest, and therefore it’s equally less deadly.

 · 
x-jla

If one person dies from disease x, and only that one person was confirmed to have disease x, the cfr is 100% which is very scary. Upon further research if we find that 100 people have been infected with and recovered from disease x the cfr is 1%.

 · 
x-jla

Our lives are governed by risk assessment. Many decisions we have made were based on heavily biased data towards the sickest people and those privy to limited availability of tests.

 · 

None of those responses are related to my question about where you are getting information stating that antibodies from the COVID 19 virus makes you immune to future infection. You can have antibodies for a virus and still become re-infected - it happens all the time. Please provide a source that supports your previous comment.  

 · 
x-jla

Plenty of sources.

 · 
x-jla

That’s a different topic from the antibody studies. A low cfr means a low risk for otherwise healthy people, which means that we should protect the vulnerable without destroying the entire economy and creating other problems for the rest of the population

 · 

From the article you linked:

"This question is important for understanding who can safely go back to work, as well as for understanding how long the worst impacts of the pandemic are likely to last. Because the virus is so new, the answer isn't fully understood. But so far, scientists say, it looks like SARS-CoV-2 probably induces immunity like other coronaviruses. That means that the human body will probably retain a memory of the virus for at least a few years and should be protected from reinfection, at least in the short-term."

 · 
x-jla

Zero risk is impossible, 500,000 Americans die every year from heart disease, 30,000 from car crashes, we make decisions based on risk. The cfr is our metric for assessing risk right now, and as our understanding changes our actions ought to adjust to reality, not media frenzy.

 · 

Not related to your comment about antibodies. Keep on track or GTFO.


Oh and also from the article you linked:

"Per our findings, we can only confirm that COVID-19 patients can maintain the adaptive immunity to SARS-CoV-2 for 2 weeks post-discharge"


So from the article you linked as proof of immunity after infection the current research says that they can't be certain immunity exists to future infection and when it dose happen it's only for two weeks.


Still want to claim that you're immune to COVID-19 after being infected?

 · 
x-jla

You are just too slow to understand I guess. I’m not going to teach you basic biology and math.

 · 
x-jla

If donut makes 1:1 people die Chad won't eat donut, if donut makes 1:10000 people die, Chad will eat donuts!

 · 

Again, this isn't about the death rate. You stated that there was immunity for those previously infected. You linked an article to back up your claim. The article you linked dose not back up your claim.


Now if you'd like to take on the calculated death rate of COVID-19 then by all means. Please link source that supports your claim that the death rate and long term effects from COVID-19 are insignificant enough to validate stopping all precautions.  

 · 
x-jla

Those supporting the shutdown bear the burden to prove it is necessary.

 · 

No. It is proven that COVID-19 spreads fast and has a high death rate in addition of various long term respiratory complications.

Someone who refutes the scientific data about COVID-19 has the burden to prove that the previous data is incorrect and that there statements are in fact correct.

As I said before, prove a data source that supports your claim that the death rate and long term effects from COVID-19 are insignificant enough to validate stopping all precautions. 

1  · 
x-jla

At first it seemed so, now that multiple studies have come out from multiple states and countries showing an infection rate that far exceeds official numbers it’s becoming apparent that a total shutdown isn’t in our best interest. We can protect the vulnerable who suffer a high cfr without destroying the lives of the healthy. If antibodies don’t protect us do you suggest we stay closed forever? Because guess what, in that case vaccines probably wouldn’t work either.

 · 
x-jla

Damn, broke my 2 sentence rule!

 · 

Provide a source for your claims.

 · 
x-jla

You first

 · 
x-jla

Look up antibody study results and your find plenty of literature.

 · 

If you're not able to provide sources for your claims that directly contradict all available data currently available then I don't see a point in giving you the benefit of discussing this with you any further. It's rather clear that you don't take this topic or discussion seriously and simply want to be a troll. Good luck with that and try harder next time.

 · 
x-jla

Sounds like you are trolling.

 · 
x-jla

It’s not my claims, It’s common knowledge for people paying attention to the recent scientific findings. I’m not responsible for catching you up to speed, pay better attention.

 · 
x-jla

This is one of many many recent studies. 2% of 4 million in the population. Magnitudes higher than the official numbers.

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

.


 · 
x-jla

B3, that’s actually the opposite.

1  · 
x-jla

Just used donuts because it’s something Chad would relate to.

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

It sounded familiar, that's why I took it down; brain lag. But I still disagree with you. The above is from my scientist friend, working on his PhD.

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

I'm going to ask him to look at this statement, from a few weeks ago, and analyze.

1  · 
x-jla

Please let me know an acceptable cfr for us to be allowed to come out of our houses?

 · 
tduds's comment has been hidden
tduds

How many times is x going to drag this thread into silly political bickering and then chide us to "get back on topic"?

I see like 4 or 5 times already, plus a few reply chains that have stayed off topic.

May 12, 20 5:34 pm  · 
1  · 

That or it will complain that we're not being 'nuanced enough' to have a discussion. It's just how it attempts to be a witty troll, not realizing that we're all onto it.

 · 
x-jla

Where?

 · 
x-jla

FLAG ▾
code HISTORY · CONTACT
I remember 08' and 09' - there will be no bounce as Trump says there will be - this will be a long slog before it it ever gets back to the level things were at in January.

MAY 11, 20 5:05 PM · 2 · 2 · REPLY
FLAG ▾
drums please, Fab?
but this is Trump not Obama

· 1
FLAG ▾
tduds
So it'll be worse.

 · 
x-jla

Who was political bickering? Tduds is projecting more than Carol Baskin.

 · 

Care to respond in a method that resembles a cohesive thought?

 · 
Non Sequitur

.

2  · 
x-jla

Chad, I reposted Tduds bickering, then accusing me of bickering. Guess he considers his brand of bickering something other than bickering?

 · 

Actually T called you out for being a hypocrite.

 · 
tduds

You could have simply not responded to my quip but instead you went off on some thing about China.

 · 
x-jla

Oh, you call it a quip, and prefer your quips uncontested. Ok.

 · 
Non Sequitur

Gents, had I not won the argument with my video above? Seems pretty clear, no?

2  · 
RickB-Astoria

How about stick with the topic at hand.... no quips... no political bullshit.... no bickering about shit that is only at best tangential like where the virus outbreak initially occured. NO ONE GIVES A SHIT.... so lets stick with the topic that matters to those laid off like when are they going to expect to see a turn around in employment.

 · 
Bench's comment has been hidden
Bench

I actually put jla-x on the mute/ignore feature about 2 weeks ago, and I can genuinely say that reading the forum is much more pleasant now. Sure I still see some responses to whatever the hell is going on, but in general - No more wormholes of pseudo-science and desperate twisting of facts to fit a world view removed from reality. Highly recommended.

May 12, 20 10:11 pm  · 
4  · 
liberty bell

I’ve been doing the same for six months or so now and yes, it’s quite nice.

2  · 
Non Sequitur

It was 13c in my house yesterday and it's snowed on and off since friday. I need the warmth and comfort of a good dumpster fire.

2  · 

Yeah I ignored the giant douche known as jla-x / x-jla.

2  · 
x-jla's comment has been hidden
klouis

hey folks! Newbie here, just found this thread. Want to say it breaks my heart to read the stories of those who have been already been laid off. Seriously, I wish the best and send positive vibes, wherever you are. 

My story is Arch designer, small 12 person firm, mostly academic and hospitality. 

Most clients are still (currently) committed to the projects that were scheduled to start this summer, but waiting on gov't instruction on safety guidelines for construction sites to release. Lots of clients saying no more money (dont even ask!) for addtl services, scope or pricey mtls, so projects dried up real quick. CMs adding collosal sums to their fees to cover covid related delays etc.

Boss man notified us a few weeks ago that if govt funds didnt come in we would all have to eat a 40% cut until that happened. Luckily we got funded and are ok for now... My concern is if we have no active design projects and nothing new coming in, at the end of 2 months we are still fucked. Seems like we've only delayed the inevitable. 

That said, opinions? Probably time to finish up that folio and be prepared for the bad news?

May 13, 20 2:05 am  · 
 · 
sp429

Hi there. I was furloughed for two weeks then the gov. loan came in and came back to work. I am afraid that in two months I will be cut so I've been working on my stuff meanwhile. Hoping for the best but definitely expecting the worst. Problem is, no one is hiring...

 · 
thisisnotmyname

I, too, am fearful that more architecture layoffs are yet to come as the boom-time projects left over from pre-COVID times get finished off and the government money for paychecks runs out.

 · 
code's comment has been hidden
code

If I get cut, then I'm going back to school to study S.E., I've worked in S.E. firms before. That's the area I'm best at, S.E. coordination anyway

May 13, 20 12:43 pm  · 
1  · 
RickB-Astoria

structural engineering or software engineering?

 · 
drums please, Fab?

stealthy electioneering

 · 
code's comment has been hidden
code

all of the above

May 13, 20 1:41 pm  · 
 · 
RickB-Astoria

Different bodies of knowledge and skills to learn for each aside from some common knowledge and skills that are transferable. If so, I wish you best if you have to.

 · 
archi_dude's comment has been hidden
archi_dude

So two weeks in to partial reopening and the stats prove that full lockdowns were not needed just social distancing and extra safety measures. So as you ponder your unemployment direct that rage at the side of the political aisle, and media machine that forced us here unnecessarily. According to this first link, there are only 4 states with increasing cases. https://www.nytimes.com/intera... the second link shows a graph of reopening and either flatlining or decreasing cases. https://www.nytimes.com/intera... In addition if you are pondering if the risk was worth the lockdown regardless, here's a math question, what is 1 death / divide by 1102 cases on the USS Theodore Roosevelt? 0.09% (less than the flu) There we have the rare instance where the full extent of infections vs. deaths could be calculated. This could also be seen far earlier on the diamond princess quarantined back in February. In terms of NY, maybe the mayor should have started cleaning the subways earlier than last week and increased them vs. decreased amount if trains. Make sure your unemployment rage is appropriately directed. 

May 15, 20 10:40 am  · 
 ·  3
Rusty!

This assumes that Trump's team's own projection of 3000 deaths by June is incorrect, and that all experts that said this will linger well into the fall, if not longer, are also flat out wrong. Based on that article alone (which relies on reporting and not actual situation), it looks like we will hit zero cases by end of July. That would be absolutely amazing! All of this hoopla by democrats to undermine Trump's presidency! Luckily experts like you saw through this sham the second it personally inconvenienced you! Thanks Archi Dude!

 · 
archi_dude

Inconvienced? That is a very light way to put it for billions pushed into poverty, loss of jobs/careers, housing, millions of destroyed small business or family businesses, 100s of thousands who are now terminal who couldn't get heart surgery or cancer tumors removed for two months and the complete destruction of individual liberties. Yeah inconvenienced by bad models...that is an interesting adjective.

 ·  1
randomised

Isn’t it too early to call? If more people get infected because lockdown is lifted, it takes up to two weeks before they (might) show symptoms, no? And if they get so sick that they will need to see a doctor and if they then get tested that will also take some time before those numbers will show, I guess...

2  · 
Rusty!

archi dude, you are super biased on the topic, and will only accept information that fits your own narrative. That is a huge problem. Do you think there are actually people out there who are cheering for virus to kill people and wreck the economy? Well probably, it takes all kinds. But us who are inclined to listen to expert opinions are trying to be sensible about the entire topic. One sided voices like yours come off as insane.

2  · 
archi_dude

We are at 3 weeks for colorado, georgia not to mention the states that never closed but did balanced safety measures. Those states are still flatlining after 3 weeks.

 · 
archi_dude

Rusty, I don't doubt there is a risk with the virus. However, when an expert who is only an expert in medicine claims that destroying our society is the best way to complete their goal of eradicating a disease. I question f their expert opinion is actually taking everything into consideration. Yes the best way to defeat this disease is to remain locked down until a vaccine. However, I dont know of many collapsed societies producing and distributing hundreds of millions of highly complex vaccines. We can barely get Qtips right now.

1  · 
x-jla

Here’s the problem, my state was basically never really closed. We “closed” but just about every business was exempted. Restaurants weren’t allowed to have sit in dining, gyms closed, theaters, but that’s about it. Cases have been steady. It hasn’t been the apocalypse we thought it would be. That said, 75% of the people in the grocery store aren’t wearing masks. Old fat people in much higher risk category than myself not being careful at all. Unfortunately the virus has entered the lexicon of chick-fil-a and other ridiculous non-political things that have become politicized. People ought to be able to say, “hey, let’s open up but do so in a careful way”. Nope. It’s either shut down and make AOC dear leader, or open up put on a MAGA hat and lock door knobs. More Bundle package politics infecting the brains of the dumb masses.

3  · 
x-jla

*and lick doorknobs (edit)

 · 
square.

destroying society? you're using the same kind of gross hyperbole that you accuse experts of using.. your words not mine. many of the job losses we're seeing now were a long time coming (i.e. online retail vs. brick and mortar), this pandemic just sped things up. and the reason we can't get qtips right now is because we're overly dependent on a globalized supply chain, another problem that predated the pandemic

1  · 
tduds

Said this elsewhere but it bears repeating here: I'm starting to realize the extent to which people don't understand that a national shutdown was not "a plan" but a measure of last resort forced upon us by an absolute failure of planning. 

The pain inflicted has been worse than it needed to be (had we had a functioning federal government), but not nearly as bad as it could have been (had we continued to do nothing). Most importantly, the last resort shutdown was an emergency measure intended to buy the nation time to formulate a plan. In this time they've done literally nothing, so "reopening" now puts us effectively where we were at the beginning of March. It's an unbelievably frustrating no-win scenario.

5  · 
tduds

"I am more sympathetic than some to the protesters, and others, who want to see states reopen, who believe the cost of lockdown overwhelms the apparent benefits. The economic agony is real, and they have been given no way to imagine its end, no clear understanding of the purpose behind their sacrifice. But the awful choice they feel we face — between endless lockdown or reckless reopening — needs to be understood for what it is: the failure of our political leaders to create a safer, middle path." 

https://www.vox.com/2020/5/13/21255221/trump-coronavirus-plan-covid-reopening-lockdown-liberate

3  · 
tintt

I know 6 people who have had it and two of them died. All 6 were hospitalized. I started showing symptoms earlier in the week and called the hotline and talked to them for over an hour. They said I didn't meet the criteria for them to insist on getting testing, said it was up to me but the only way to get tested is to go to urgent care or the ER which I don't want to do. No symptoms today. Impossible to know without testing.

 · 
x-jla

What were their ages?

 · 

I know four people who had COVID 19. One has died in the hospital (59 year old). One was laid up for two weeks in agony. The other two had no symptoms at all.

 · 

There goes x-jla-x's self-imposed 2 sentence rule.

 · 
x-jla

There goes you blocking me...

 · 

As for tdud's statement, I think it is spot on. My local government leaders gave us the option of choosing to stay home and prevent spreading the virus. Some of us did. Most of us did not, and they then had to impose a lockdown saying basically, "this is why you can't have nice things." If you were following along it was a very rational reaction to overwhelming evidence that we can't make the right choices on our own. This of course wouldn't have needed to happen if the federal government hadn't completely dropped the ball on testing and contact tracing. Not to mention listening to their own advisors.

1  · 

I had never blocked you. I only temporarily block Balkins to make reading easier (less scrolling).

1  · 
x-jla

Executive order to lower the retirement age to 55. Allow the high risk to stay home, low risk people can keep the machine going.

 · 

archi-dude - Georgia had a shelter in place order from 4/3 to 4/30


 · 
tintt

Of those that died, one in their 30's, one in their 60's.

 · 
SneakyPete

tintt, take care of yourself.

2  · 
tintt

Thanks. I had extremely mild symptoms. I only called the nurse because I had loss of taste and smell along with some other symptoms like upset stomach. All gone today. Will continue to distance and disinfect. 

 · 
tintt

archidude, Colorado has been open for three weeks? Where do you live? It's been a week in Colorado and some counties have stricter rules. Hopefully anybody who reads what you write doesn't believe it without some critical thought and investigation first. Everywhere isn't open either, it is limited still. A restaurant that opened and packed the house lost their business license.

 · 
tintt

I'm looking at the map in the link you posted. There is a county where 1 in 14 people have been diagnosed Wow. I had no idea it was that bad. I knew it was bad, but wow. I am looking at the county where one of 1of the people I knew that had it lived. Wow.

 · 

In Mesa County (western Colorado) we've been partially open for two weeks.

 · 
x-jla

Fuck. That’s sucks tintt.

 · 
archi_dude

"Partial reopening" is what was stated. And again in no way am I advocating pretend nothing is happening. Just showing stats that seem to suggest partial reopenings and social distancing would have been just fine. Full lockdowns seemed to be the equivalent of using a shotgun to perform a mole removal.

1  · 
square.

archi_dude your comments are getting dumber by the minute. hindsight is 2020. in feb no one had a great handle on how things were going to turn out, especially considering this was the first major pandemic in the us in 100 years. of course the shutdown was a blunt instrument; we were completely unprepared and uncoordinated, but it saved lives. it's only been 2 months, and now we're starting to see localities ease up and experiment. it's completely asinine for you to be sitting here claiming that you/we should have done something different, especially considering no one cares about your opinion, and you have no influence on any meaningful decisions. you're beginning to resemble the definition of insanity, so please stop posting the same shit over and over and see what happens.

1  · 
tintt

Yet there are reports of several (most) new cases among those that have been social distancing. We aren't in the clear yet. Plenty we still don't know and understand archidude. You are clearly politically motivated and I think that's what saddest about all of this. That many people clearly don't care and can't be bothered to put some brain cells on it. But don't worry because that's why we have profesionals.

3  · 
x-jla

Tintt, there have also been reports that 65% of new cases in NYC have been people isolated at home. It’s likely impossible to completely stop transmission.

 · 
x-jla

square, the problem is that the powers that be are now trying to save face and play politics. The media is not reporting new findings that undermine their panic and hide under the bed narratives

 · 
square.

the powers that be

just when you had some reasonable responses above. again, hindsight. and that's not my point. i live in ny, and am happy with the direction we've gone except the fact that i think we should have acted sooner. if anything there wasn't enough of a panic. regardless, i'm not suggesting everyone in the country follow our footsteps, nor am i posting the same dumbass posts on archinect trying to claim i had to right answers before all of this started.

 · 
tduds

Y'all should just read the Vox essay I linked. It covers all of this.

1  · 
x-jla

square, the initial response was appropriate but a little late. The problem now is that some states and media outlets are political posturing (left and right). Rightwing media is downplaying the threat, and left wing media is exaggerating it. I think Cuomo is doing a great job being reasonable and adapting to data.

1  · 
x-jla

Newsom, not so much.

 · 
tduds

Am I correct in assuming that when you say "right wing media" you mean certain cable television channels, and when you say "left wing media" you mean different cable television channels?

 · 
x-jla

Mainly, but most media outlets have some bias these days. Cable news is still incredibly influential to the masses. I personally don’t watch it.

 · 

I missed the weekly zoom call of right and left wing media companies so they could coordinate their approach. Can someone forward me the minutes?

 · 
x-jla

I’ve always had a hard time understanding why thinks like climate change or eating healthy (darn Michelle Obama!) have political associations. It’s very dumb. I’d say this pandemic is a perfect example of why we need to destroy the concept of a political party as we know it. The lefts strong arm tactics in places like lightfoots Chicago have caused a resistance. The rights nonchalant tactics have caused the left to demand more strong arm tactics. It’s a vicious cycle. Rather than seeking that middle ground, where we can be safe, protect the most at risk, and also keep the economy afloat, the politics have caused people to gravitate away from that logical middle and take on a more ridiculous position which puts health at risk on one side, and economic well-being at risk on the other.

 · 
tintt

I blame football.

2  · 
tduds

In America, politics is a sport and sports are a religion.

3  · 
tduds

jla: Thank Lee Atwater, Roger Ailes, and Newt Gingrich for that.

 · 
midlander

what gets totally obscured in the debate is that Sweden is still sliding into a severe recession. the solution to pandemics is preventing them. there is no plan B - once the spread starts taking off, your country is fucked in various different ways. the ferocity of the debate about this belies the evidence that these situations are entirely out of our control (again, once spread is allowed). https://www.ft.com/content/93105160-dcb4-4721-9e58-a7b262cd4b6e

1  · 
tduds

Midlander is right. We're well past the point where we have the ability to make easy decisions. Any action at this point is going to be extremely difficult and at least moderately painful. Anyone who tells you otherwise is deluding themselves or trying to con you.

1  · 
x-jla

I hate football, it’s boring.

 · 

Sweden will be fine. They committed genetic genocide decades ago, they rid themselves of the week genes. Herd immunity! Go Vikings!

 · 

tinnt , you mean soccer right? That beta male pussy sport right?

 · 
x-jla

I prefer soccer. The older I get the more I hate seeing people get brain damage for entertainment.

 · 
x-jla

I’ve been practicing martial arts since I was a kid, but can’t stand watching mma either.

 · 
proto

My work fell off a cliff 3/10. I applied for unemployment 3/23, which was supposed to be OK for self-employed folk, as reinforced by the application instructions online while applying. 4/2 I received a confirmation of application, but I had started to get work again so I didn't follow through with weekly payment claims.

Today, 8 weeks after applying online, I got 3 letters from the state unemployment folks. Two say I don't qualify because I'm self-employed. The 3rd, addressed to "Self Employed" as the Employer Name, asks me to certify my own employment.

In the end, I didn't need this assistance. These letters would be funny, if there weren't a shitton of people who really do need this agency to work properly for them...

May 15, 20 3:50 pm  · 
1  · 
thisisnotmyname

The lack of resources for the self-employed who fall on hard times has been a major flaw in the USA system for quite a while. The past 20+ years has seen a huge de-industrialization and the concurrent shifting of vast numbers of people to gig and independent contractor status. This was not accompanied by the creation of a reasonable unemployment and health insurance system for such persons.

1  · 
x-jla

Being self employed is hard with Insurance, loans, etc. feels like the cards are stacked against us.

2  · 
thisisnotmyname

Absolutely. And the way that the USA government and media tout freelancing and entrepreneurship as the way to mitigate jobs lost to offshoring and corporate consolidation is a crock of sh*t.

 · 
proto

and, they emailed me this morning replying to my 4/3 contact with questions (since the phone lines were overloaded)...and it wasn't even a focused reply, just a "contact us back if you still have questions"...

Also in the #headshaking category, SBA contacted me today too (7wks later) to continue the EIDL loan process...i'm trying to figure if i should continue purely with the idea of only asking for the forgivable advance...maybe just best to leave dead horses be and move on

 · 
thisisnotmyname

I think there's a good chance you will get the advance (we got 1k per employee) if you continue the process. The money just showed up without warning in our bank account one day. We have heard nothing else about our EIDL.The advance is, however, going the be deducted from any PPP loan forgiveness we may get. (according to the rules as of the time I'm writing this)

 · 
randomised's comment has been hidden
randomised

“Donald Trump may never go away, warns World Health Organization

The WHO has issued a stark warning that the world may simply have to learn to live with Donald Trump in the same way it now lives with HIV.“

https://newsthump.com/2020/05/15/donald-trump-may-never-go-away-warns-world-health-organization/

May 15, 20 4:29 pm  · 
4  · 
drums please, Fab?

posting onion links again?

1  · 
randomised

yep, satire is so much closer to the truth these days than could've ever been foreseen. How weird that one has to watch comedians like John Oliver, Trevor Noah or Bill Maher pretending to be news anchors to stay properly informed!

1  · 
RickB-Astoria's comment has been hidden
RickB-Astoria

Anyway, I'm planning to reopen services in a few weeks or so. Some of these practices are going to be particularly long-term practices (such as over a year). I have been talking with the City about best practices and guidance to use during Phase I. They pointed to the closest (albeit not directly applicable), the OHA guidelines for Phase I.... to extent applicable and general guidelines issued for employer. I would have to take guidance also from Washington as well so I would use them to customized requirements to each activity to best practices guidelines out there where it makes sense including guidance issued to contractors when they do on-site visits. If there are good best practice that our fellow architects and firms are applying, it would be good to here from you. There is probably going to be regular activity of using Skype or Zoom for meetings with clients that do not have to happen in-person.

May 15, 20 5:55 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

Did you stay open in Sweden?

4  · 
CodesareFUN

Does anyone actually hire you Ballkins?

1  · 
RickB-Astoria

None of your business. Yes, I do get clients for projects and that is not a response one way or another to x-jla's comment. Granted, there are a number of inquiries for services that I either don't respond to or simply reject. I'm more selective about what projects I want to do if I want to do them.


 ·  2
CodesareFUN

So, no.

 · 
RickB-Astoria

Not what you said and you are a waste of time arguing with.

 · 
revolutionary poet's comment has been hidden
revolutionary poet

so whose ready to get back to normal, just with face masks? (I'm NYC/NJ area)

Was at the grocery store the other day. This older chick I think, tattoos and gray hair mixed in with black hair....was in tight cut-off jeans and a tie-die shirt.  I noticed the jeans were cut pretty damn short.  She noticed I noticed and then proceeded to check out first tea, then gatorade, with lots of side action hips.  I can't imagine what the fuck you reading on the side of that bottle!?!

 I was in line and the fat guy with his wife were behind me (at least 6 feet, calm down)....he started staring at her slow moving ass down the liquid refreshment drink aisle.  I mean he was staring.  It was a nice tight jean cut off assembly, but dude!  I mean I looked, but staring, nah...she had gray hair!


anyway, I wondered.  Was this lady actually attractive?  i couldn't tell, she had a damn face mask on.  Well the guy behind me was drooling and this wife showed up,  wearing "I'm a school teacher" t-shirt and she looked mildly attractive with a mask on.... I wondered, man this mask shit's fucked up, but yeah that older lady had a much nicer ass than your wife dude.  But with the mask your wife's still attractive?  

Critical Question: How are men to think!?

well, I checked-out, and wondered who the hell goes grocery shopping in their Ferrari..not joking, someone parked a Ferrari in the Shop-Rite parking lot......thought to myself, maybe old hot chick working magic in the mask!  or man, stocking groceries is the GAME bruh!

or ugly people will now get treated equally based on their bodies!

now hot chicks are going to complain about discrimination....


May 16, 20 6:39 pm  · 
4  · 
Non Sequitur

Sorry, my Hummer was in the shop. It was either the Ferrari or the wife's vespa. Gotta has standards, right?

 · 
x-jla

What if Trump released Corona on purpose to solve butter face?

 · 

Wouldn't the Vespa have more space for groceries! Butter Face, haha...Shouldn't this theory be on the Conspiracy Theory or we already know this if fact.

 · 
Non Sequitur

My Ferrari has a hitch and trailer fir groceries. Must have been another wanker then.

 · 
tduds

"Critical Question: How are men to think!?" 

Not like this, thanks.

 · 
Donna Sink's comment has been hidden

revolutionary poet I hid your comment about a human shopping in the grocery store wearing whatever the hell they wanted to wear while shopping in the grocery store. It was so inappropriate and gross. And I'm telling you *I* was the one who hid  it, not any of the other mods, because if you have a problem with me hiding it I want you to take it up with *ME*, no one else. And to quote the great badass Elaine Benes, if you want a piece of me, I will drop you like a bag of dirt. (RIP Jerry Stiller, one of the greats)

May 17, 20 2:39 pm  · 
7  ·  1
archanonymous

Thanks Donna. It read like the musing of some sort of drug or stupidity addled adolescent boy, not something for public discussion, and certainly not someone who is (supposedly) a professional in a respected (and at one time, classy) profession.

4  ·  1
drums please, Fab?'s comment has been hidden
drums please, Fab?

'tis interesting what gets Donna all worked up. i mean, she posts shit like this about Melania Trump:

Everyone involved in this can go to hell. Children dying in cages while the white-skinned First Illegal Immigrant plays tennis on our nation’s lawn. Eat the rich.

and it's not only acceptable, it is celebrated as a 'featured comment'.  SMH!

now watch, my post will be deleted, and i will be banned from making future posts in this thread.  that's what happens when i call out the great Queen D.  OFF WITH MY HEAD!

1  · 
Ancient Sheds's comment has been hidden

that's because Donna hates womin!wati, did I spell that right? how do fascist left wingers spell women?

drums fab?  I like that name.\]

 · 
x-jla

Donna isn’t tolerant of other points of view. She is always right and righteous, so any disagreement isn’t only wrong, it’s bad and evil!

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Everyone involved in this can go to hell. Children dying in cages while the white-skinned First Illegal Immigrant plays tennis on our nation’s lawn. Eat the rich.

 · 
revolutionary poet's comment has been hidden
revolutionary poet

/\ ok. But what's the fuss? Since when is reality offensive?  Should one modify that gravity kills someone jumping out a 21 story building? 

May 17, 20 2:49 pm  · 
 ·  1
archanonymous

false equivalency. Should one walk up to a stranger and say, "hey, if you jumped out of that window you would definitely die."?

1  · 

Your response to what that person was wearing was your personal response based on hundreds of years of dehumanizing stereotypes. If you want to write about how nobody besides you has agency and everyone's actions are only performed in the service of your own gaze then start a damn blog. Don't put it in a thread about layoffs in the architectural community FFS.

1  · 
RickB-Astoria

In fact, it should be deleted or moved to a separate thread. Preferably deleted. In my opinion "revolutionary poet's" comment regarding a person at a grocery store is unrelated to the topic of this thread and is actually inappropriate as Donna said. I also do not see the relevancy to architecture at all in the comments or the thread itself. 

By deleting it, it would clean up the blabber and I would suggest a little clean-up on it. I am not suggesting removing revolutionary poet from the forum unless necessary but I think removing the offending posts and some of the noise around it would be best.

 · 
revolutionary poet's comment has been hidden
revolutionary poet

Glad you brought this up for moderation, seems timely. 

Why are science deniers on the right tolerated?

because science deniers on the left are allowed to speak as well and even promoted by a mainly Left Wing Media, granted if you google "News" Fox comes-up first.  But it's like Fox vs Everyone Else (that is amusing).

Literally told a true story and it offended some people.  You should really be ashamed of yourselves.

Right Wing Religion = Left Wing Political Correctness.

The musing, was about reality in a new world for the west.  Not wearing masks (something the "far east" has done for decades, as they deal with SARS a lot).  Next time I'll film it for you naive humans, because you know calling you men or women (biological) would be offensive.  The guy was drooling behind me, like drooling and his wife was right there!

Layoff thread benefits how?  This thread has been shit show forever, so why is this musing any different than the garbage for the last 1000 posts.

Apologies if I do not understand your delusions.


 

May 17, 20 3:24 pm  · 
 · 
RickB-Astoria

Sorry but this forum is privately owned and not subject to the general rules of the U.S. Constitution any more than when you are in someone else's home as a guest. Moderation is.... take it as is or go elsewhere if you don't like it. Sure, you can petition complaints or concerns but it's no different then any other forum or IRC or whatever. It is not a democracy but don't assume what you say is private and hidden from being seen. In other words, don't say something on the internet that is bad, embarassing, or otherwise inappropriate without it reflecting on you by anyone else. It is like don't act like an douche in front of an assembly of people even if it is in a private establishment. The moderators are free to moderate as they see fit and courts have no jurisdiction here on this.

 ·  1

hey bot, turn the power switch off.

1  · 
RickB-Astoria

Sure, if you want the power off switch invoked on your computer and home while we're at it.


 · 
tduds

"Literally told a true story and it offended some people" 

Have you heard of this cool new thing called 'context'? 

 · 
Ancient Sheds's comment has been hidden

I have a suggestion - Donna.

Delete all non-relevant posts to "layoff" due to "Covid-19"

as a Mod, that's what you do.  Who cares if someone had a political perspective, delete it.

This thread is about layoffs in architecture due to a virus and its social affect. That's it. That's what it's about.

May 17, 20 3:44 pm  · 
1  · 

Listen - Mod's...Paul runs one of the most "free " on opinion websites in general on the web. I would like to believe he was reluctant on the thumbs up and down....that's bullshit Reddit does, moderated mainly by Youtube loosers who failed in the real world... Social media is the demise of the internet and public opinion. I've been on this site nearly 20 years under various aliases. I would like to hope you old school peeps - Liberty Bell and Beta could moderate for architecture. Like delete the dude who makes new posts on your Op-Ed (even if I agree somewhat), it had nothing to do with architecture. Delete half my shit, maybe I was just pushing the limit! Delete pretty much everything Balkin's does (it's intentional mis-information to distort the profession). Make this fucking forum about architecture. I've been in forum's if you have spelling mistakes you do not get posted. These are highly intellectual, and if you're thinking deeply about something you should be able to spell, no? 15 years ago Archinect was social media for architects, but most architects now have social media and don't mix the two. I see nothing wrong with Archinect being mod'd for just architecture comments. Delete non architecture shit. I realize that makes some really old school political believing archinectors irrelevant, but who cares - NONE OF YOU POLITICAL BULLSHIT EDITORS EVER ADHERED TO HOW ARCHITECTURE COULD BE POLITICAL AS PER MR. WOODS. so give it up, no one cares you're left wing. To be fair shouldn't Volunteer be a MOD? That was my letter to the editor. Don't make me get drunk and email Easy-E conspiracy theory videos! hahaha (i cc'd peeps to show, not insanity, just art - David Coupland (a great Canadian like Paul) sees words as art - so do it!)

3  ·  1
Non Sequitur

But, don’t mess up our cozy drinking hole.

 · 
revolutionary poet's comment has been hidden
revolutionary poet

tis interesting what gets Donna all worked up. i mean, she posts shit like this about Melania Trump:

Everyone involved in this can go to hell. Children dying in cages while the white-skinned First Illegal Immigrant plays tennis on our nation’s lawn. Eat the rich.

and it's not only acceptable, it is celebrated as a 'featured comment'.  SMH!

now watch, my post will be deleted, and i will be banned from making future posts in this thread.  that's what happens when i call out the great Queen D.  OFF WITH MY HEAD!

May 17, 20 6:47 pm  · 
1  · 
x-jla

Lol. This is what happens when leftists get power.

 · 
tduds

.

 · 
x-jla

I think architect should use Democratic mod....now that we have thumbs up/down, it’s should determine which comments get booted and which comments get featured. Down with the monarchy!

 · 
Donna Sink's comment has been hidden

For the record: I haven't hidden any comment on this thread except the one by rev poet about what someone was wearing in a grocery store. Every comment following has been hidden by one of the many other mods on this forum. 

Lesson: don't post shit, because when you try to defend yourself you just dig yourself deeper into the shit.

This is a thread about layoffs in our discipline related to covid-19. I do agree with someone in one of the hidden posts who asked why we don't delete all of the posts here *not* directly related to covid -19 layoffs but only to tangentially-related topics of the politics of covid-19 and my only answer is: there are 24 hours in a day and I'm spending 12+ of them working lately. I don't have time to police a bunch of petulant children, but when things get as gross as poet's post that I hid I'll step in. With anger.

May 17, 20 10:02 pm  · 
7  · 
randomised's comment has been hidden
randomised

That escalated quickly...






May 18, 20 4:40 am  · 
3  · 
randomised

.

 · 
x-jla's comment has been hidden
x-jla

I think archinect should try a more Democratic moderation system.  Now that we have thumbs up/down, it should determine which comments get booted and which comments get featured.  

May 18, 20 3:19 pm  · 
 ·  1
x-jla

I respect your right to do whatever you want being it’s a privately owned site, but why not experiment with the platform?

 · 

Do you have concern about people down voting posts out of spite? Could be a lot more work for the mods.

 · 
x-jla

Maybe, but overall I think it would be better.

 · 
randomised

Don’t you like this Republican moderation system?

1  · 

I want a third party choice for rating posts.

 · 
code

I was 1099 from 2010 - 2015, luckily I went from job to job, and used savings for the times in between. Now, things are far more critical, people just don't have the savings, student loan debt and high cost of living. 

May 18, 20 5:16 pm  · 
 ·  1
RickB-Astoria

At least we are seeing some phase I stuff happening.

May 18, 20 10:46 pm  · 
 · 
RickB-Astoria

I wonder what it will mean for the architectural profession but we'll see.

 · 

It's going to depend on your area. Where I am at right now projects in the $2-$5 million range are going well. Large projects requiring a bond and grants will be on hold for the next year or so.

 · 
randomised's comment has been hidden
randomised

(applies ALSO to the US COVID-19 response)

May 19, 20 3:47 am  · 
1  · 

The comments by both Autumn and Daniel in our Sessions podcast last week made me nervous.  Daniel points out that as construction starts ramping up again we may be short on labor, meaning everyone will be more overworked yet again.  But as Autumn points out that during this scarcity/survival time owners somehow feel ok asking us to do 8 weeks' worth of work in 6 weeks, because they think we're not busy. So the rapid response mentality may carry over post-covid. <sigh>

Anyway, podcast here: https://archinect.com/news/article/150197713/archinect-sessions-conversations-with-the-architecture-community-part-2-6

May 19, 20 3:07 pm  · 
3  · 

Eeep!

 · 
sameolddoctor

We are noticing this for international work as well. Clients want to have meetings all the time as everyone is working from home these days. And this trend will continue once the lockdown is over as well.

1  · 
threeohdoor

Yea, not great. Firm owners will accept whatever punishment presented if it means that can survive. For instance, after rehiring the firm back with PPP money, our principals are now sending out emails questioning our work ethic. Surely clients are putting the screws on them and thus, the poo water flows downhill. I almost regret coming back.

 · 

When firm owners do that it's time to look for a new firm.

2  ·  1

Depressing to hear about that kind of poo water in the industry. People will justify it thinking it's temporary, but before you know it, you've been accepting it for years.

1  · 
midlander

you really can say no. if someone's looking for an excuse to fire you they'll always find one anyway. most of the time it's just people under pressure hurrying things because the sense of control distracts them from a situation that's totally beyond their control. push back. argumentative people like to argue; nearly everyone else will listen to reason.

 · 
tduds

I've been pushing back on being available all the time. The first month of WFH was awful, because the line between work and home disappeared. I spent the past few weeks re-establishing that line, and learning to say no to meeting / call requests that fall outside work-time.

2  · 
Dangermouse

Donna that is exactly what our office is doing: compressing project schedules to invoice early and often. 6 week timelines for 100% DD are becoming 2 week timelines. Management (all of whom have absconded to their second/third homes in upstate NY) has "closed" requests for time off. Its clear they're double dipping with PPP money and client invoices, and give zero fucks about burning through their junior staff most of whom have spent the last three months stuck inside 1br Brooklyn closet apartments. Sigh, indeed...

3  ·  1
threeohdoor

Dangermouse, Very true indeed. This is exactly the situation at my firm.

Chad, the search continues...

 · 

three - well if you want to move to the western slope of Colorado we're looking for new people.

1  · 
code

As project schedules have been pulled forward, fearing another 08', clients fear the longer the schedule, the greater the chance investors and big banks will back out. It's back to feeding the shark and hoping it eats you last type of survival mode, pay cuts, longer faster hours, working for free, those of you with over 10 years exp. know the drill. Everday I wake up to numerous urgent Zoom invites, numerous Slack and e-mails. But hey, it's better than being unemployed.

May 21, 20 12:49 pm  · 
2  · 
77LightTemple
Word on the street is that Gensler made third round of layoffs this week.
May 21, 20 8:51 pm  · 
 · 

I heard from a consultant that NBBJ is furloughing employees. The consultant works closely with their Seattle office. I'm not sure if it limited to that location or specific studios, or if it applies across the board to all studios in all locations.

May 22, 20 12:43 am  · 
1  · 

Curious to see a thumbs up on this. Wondering if fulcrum is confirming the information, or simply likes when people get furloughed?

1  · 

Both?

1  · 
curtkram

i just felt you needed a thumbs up to brighten your day

1  · 

Thanks curtkram, thumbs up for everyone. 

In other news, glad to see fulcrum around again. I hope it's not because they suddenly have a lot of free time on their hands.

 · 

Thumbs up means "This is a good/helpful post" not "I like this". At least that's how I'm using it.

2  · 
SneakyPete

That's a useful way of doing it, and I probably won't ever see a thumbs up from you. :)

 · 
amarchy
Yep, Gensler keeps making the cuts. Workplace design is their bread and butter so they have been hit pretty hard.
May 22, 20 1:41 am  · 
 · 
joseffischer

I learned that GreenbergFarrow laid off about half their staff here in Atlanta... happened a while ago but I just got the news yesterday from a contractor.

May 22, 20 9:00 am  · 
 · 

wow - really? that's too bad. we were neighbors to them for a while.

 · 
code

One of the keys to avoid being layed off is Zoom proficiency and availability - responding to slack and e-mail right away

May 22, 20 12:19 pm  · 
1  ·  5
tduds

Maybe others are better at refocusing but I find that responding immediately do whatever comes in is a good way to do nothing but respond to things for an entire day.

If you're "always available" you've given up control over your own life. I don't think the tradeoff is worth it. Delivering on time and keeping your clients happy, in my experience, does a lot more for job security than answering your principal's every whim.

5  · 

Agree with tduds. If you're managers can't understand that you have to prioritize things, they shouldn't be in management. I've been disconnecting from zoom and email recently in order to be able to focus on work that needs to get done. I've also seen people block out time on their calendars for production/focus time so it doesn't get filled up with unnecessary zoom calls.

2  · 
Rusty!

I have few coworkers who will ignore emails and messaging apps so that they can concentrate on "work". Absolutely useless. New normal is being able to "work" and also meet other obligations. I need stuff from you so I can also do my own work as well. It takes literally 15 seconds to snooze an obligation if it's not a priority. "I'll get back to you tomorrow". That simple.

2  ·  1
tduds

Again others might deal with it better, but jumping onto something else - even for 15 seconds - breaks my focus. Sometimes I can refocus immediately, sometimes it takes 15-20 minutes to remember my train of thought. Multiply that by the dozens of emails that come in everyday and there goes the day. 

I have times blocked out to check & respond to email. I do my best to ignore it otherwise. There's nothing that can't wait 3 hours.

1  ·  1
archanonymous

haha how ridiculous. Literally anyone with a pulse and a computer can be "always available." But there's very few who can lead the design and documentation of complex projects while meeting budgetary, design, and technical objectives. Guess what, it takes focus time to do that work.

3  · 
SneakyPete

It's a two-way street. People get used to being able to interrupt colleagues and start thinking they can just demand whatever whenever. It's bad for the project. As a manager of humans, respect their time. As a human being managed, respect their requests. If you both do that, then the requests you get for information or work should be done ASAP, with the knowledge that it's necessary, not impulsive and thoughtless.

4  · 
Rusty!

I have a feeling this crisis will shake out a number of people who can't keep up with basic project needs. Unresponsive coworker is literally the biggest obstacle right now. You have to learn to prioritize. If you are completely tuning out, you can't even do that.

4  · 
archi_dude

Honestly I've noticed ed

 · 
archi_dude

That getting laid off or fired sometimes has zero relation to how valuable an employee was. I.E. great employee but no family or mortgage they can afford to be unemployed and they get the axe. Just keep trucking at a reasonable pace and live debt free if the time comes.

1  · 
square.

agreed- i've said this before, but going the extra mile right now and trying to prove your worth is ineffective. firms already have in mind who will be the first out, so do good work but no point in trying to go overboard

4  · 

I disagree with Rusty!'s assessment of the "new normal," but perhaps it's only because we've misunderstood each other's points. I'm not talking about taking the entire day and tuning out. I'm talking about a few hours at a time. With people working from home ... while also parenting ... while also being teachers ... means that if you want to retain any type of talent that also happens to have children, you have to understand that they may not be able to respond immediately to emails or chats even if it is just to say, "I'll get back to you tomorrow." THAT is the "new normal," not some fantasy world where everyone is instantly able to manage anything that gets thrust in front of them or makes a sound on their computer. 

I've got coworkers that can barely manage to keep their kids from exploding their house (hyperbole) during normal business hours. They do most of their work after the kids have gone to bed. They are valuable members of a team and the team works within those constraints. When someone's kid makes an appearance on a zoom chat, we roll with it, not wonder how long before they get the axe. If a coworker needs me to respond in the next 15 minutes so they can continue their work, they haven't managed their work appropriately. They should be able to anticipate needing input from me and planned ahead ... within reason of course.

Honestly, if your firm hasn't addressed this type of thing, you need to bring it up with the firm. It's also not just people with kids. Maybe they're living in an abusive relationship and they have to manage that. Maybe the 24/7 living with their partner or roommates has caused some issues they have to deal with in the middle of the day.

2  · 
randomised

That's indeed the new normal EA, at least from seeing how my girlfriend works remotely within a corporate setting these last two months.

 · 

randomised, my new normal, or Rusty!’s new normal?

 · 
tduds

++ EA. I file my emails in the morning, respond after lunch, and again between 4-5. 2 hour "time blocking" session on Monday mornings and 1 hour "Inbox clean" on Friday afternoon. Outside of that - unless I have meetings scheduled - I turn off push notices and try to focus.

I don't know about y'all but as a PM I sometimes get emails coming in every 10-20 minutes through the day. Even if I didn't respond, just taking the 5 seconds to acknowledge every message would ruin any chances of getting actual work done.

4  · 
randomised

Yours EA, I hope!

1  · 
liberty bell

tduds your level of organization sounds dreamy. I can’t seem to force myself to do that. I’m always responding to whatever is waving in my face at that exact moment. This, my most productive *drawing* time is 10pm to 2am, which is not healthy. I need to try your method.

 · 
Rusty!

tduds: " Even if I didn't respond, just taking the 5 seconds to acknowledge every message would ruin any chances of getting actual work done." I guess we have a very different ideas of what actual work means. But at this point I am very used to a PM sending an email at 6pm in response to an email sent at 9am. And yes, that email pretty much negated 20 other emails that were exchanged in that thread. Pretty useless to everyone else involved.

 · 
Rusty!

And I do agree with Everyday Architect, that people with toddlers are pretty much fucked. Besides not really being able to focus on work, they look like they are about to have a nervous breakdown. For the Xth time today.

4  · 
tduds

If all I had to do was be a PM I could afford to respond to emails all day. But, alas, that's not how the job works.

Donna: I'm very much the same which is why I've yoked myself to the calendar. It's the only way I can maintain any sort of flow. You call it 'dreamy' I call it 'ADHD coping mechanism'

1  · 

I'll fully disagree with the OP of this thread. I'm the boss, had 7 (including me), bringing some back, so back to 3.5 shortly (0.5 for free lancers).

I hate web calls, Zoom, Skype, it's a mind blowing waste of time. I can figure the same stuff out with an email far quicker and on my TIME. i.e. I can read your 5 page email in about 30 seconds versus listening to you think in a weird impersonal way outloud - via screen with an undershot of your double chin. I don't care how you think, get to the point.

By phone, I can literally wash some dishes, write an email and still have the mind numbing 30 minutes call of you repeating shit over and over. Obviously as the boss I can't not LISTEN to clients, so at least I provide the appearance. This is not to say I don't have good calls with intensely intelligent people, but Zoom is really a waste of time.

Pre Covid I had 150 meaningful emails a day I always responded to within an hour, 30+ texts a day usually from contractors, and about 20 calls a day. I also was already working from home occasionally, since I'm the boss my wife could go to work to gain some sanity (she was mainly working from home at the time). Having Adult conversations is important to sanity. At the start my staff could tell I was working from home because I would yell at them the same way I yell at my kids.

I do all this so that my staff can fucking focus. Lately I've been doing my own drafting, modeling, etc... and find myself terribly frustrated with myself if I spend more than 1 hour on anything. On any pre-Covid day I would probably deal with 30+ projects, ranging from reports to New Buildings, so even 5 minutes on something I'm wondering why is it taking so long...so now work 16 hour days from home, 8 hours of running a company and 8 hours of "production" or "design" (also called work if you're an architect).

So tduds would make a good employee for me. And like I said, Zoom is a waste of time, just like Youtube help videos - 1 hour of bullshit on the screen or like 5 minutes of reading....I fully disagree with this post.


3  ·  1
Rusty!

This is top shelf satire Ancient Sheds! RickB needs to work on new material now.

 · 
curtkram

set some agendas for those zoom meetings so you focus on what needs to be done and don't deviate into conversations about astrology (which i did yesterday. whatever). i'm not a fan of sharing my camera unless it's a social thing. i share my desktop instead of my no-haircut face so people can see the agenda or a drawing or a revit model (the reason we set up the call)

1  · 
sameolddoctor

Yup. If one has too much self preservation to not respond to their principal's email or teams message in like 15-30 minutes, they seem like they are doing other things and not working. All of us have childcare responsibilities etc, but if you are clocking in 40 hours of work, better be available for those 40 hours. It doesn't pay to have too much of an attitude, especially these days.

 · 
RickB-Astoria

Sorry Rusty! Been too busy with other things and I had put Ancient Sheds into the ignore file so I missed reading whatever was written. I didn't have a response for whatever you wrote. Don't want to deviate the good conversation going on.

 · 

I do hate Zoom... and RickB (the super archinect bot)

 · 
midlander

totally agree w ancient sheds on this. the advantage of written material is you can pace your speed to the importance of the message and credibility of the sender. whereas zoom meetings and videos take just as long for low-content fluff as substantial information. longer actually because incompetent or inexperienced people tend to be terrible at editing for brevity. (cf one infamous poster here!)

2  · 

agree midlander. and it's funny my real life is read as satire and my satire read as offensive real life sometimes....it's the internet - c'est la vie son of e bitch...what can you do?!?!

and yes tduds is what I would be looking for in an employee, not a project manager, but someone who does the architecting at a high level.  project managing to me is just putting out fires and explaining stuff to people...see midlanders comments.


1  · 
Rusty!

Wait, so that wasn't satire? uhhhh... So much to unpack here. Who the heck calls themselves "the boss"? Also, complaining about zoom? "I can read your 5 page email in about 30 seconds " Ah! That specific person that you learn never ever to ask more than one question in an email. You are getting your first question answered, but don't expect anything more.

2  · 
tintt

I've adopted the strategy where I only read email 2-3 times a day. No phone calls unless scheduled. Don't need zoom for any reason. My toddler has in fact sent some work emails on my behalf. I think it gave me a few sympathy nods. He's also been screaming while I've been on the phone, and I had to just roll through it. Picked him up and soothed him, rocking back and forth while discussing something architect-y. I really enjoy working from home where there aren't endless distractions! UPS guy, lighting rep, someone dropping off plans, radios, phone conversations, banging keyboards, buzzing lights. Do away with that crap!

1  · 
tintt

All the emails come at 3 am lately anyways. :/

 · 

Rusty!

1.0 boss - the person who signs the checks for work performed.

2.0 Zoom - sucks and annoying.

3.0 No I can really read 5 page email in 30 seconds. If you know the context of the conversation you can filter out the bullshit, find the pertinent and respond. If you send me a 5 page email, my response is usually 5 sentences and just as effective.

3.1 Good construction doc CYA language is brief and barely English, TBD, UON, etc..."as required", "verify in field", you get the idea. Remember our forefathers in this industry are pretty much the Army Corp. of Engineers...when I need good spec writing, that's where I start. EOD that's what matters.


tinnt - what do toddlers charge for drafting?  I need more affordable drafters in this time of crisis

 · 

so Rusty!, last sentence to tinnt, not serious.

 · 

Rusty! code writing here...

under 3.1 the following:

3.1.1 As a young architect I asked my boss how to note a stair detail.

        3.1.1.1 My boss, the guy who signs my checks and knows              more than me due to decades of experience.

        3.1.1.2 My boss was a Navy Sea Bee, a Ivy League grad,  
        and worked in Japan for a while.

         3.1.1.3 He told me something in what I thought was English.

                 3.1.1.3.1 I was like what?

                 3.1.1.3.2 He repeated.

                 3.1.1.3.3 I was like Al (our buddy Miles Jaffe knows     
                  him) what?

                 3.1.1.3.4 Just write what I'm saying.

                  3.1.1.3.5 I'm like - Not english

                  3.1.1.3.6 - Just do it, I'm the boss.

3.1.1.2 Boss architect language, brief, succinct, accurate. CYA


*Al drove Bucky Fuller around in his convertable at Princeton dragging a multi-facetted-iso-whatever-dome.  Pretty cool story for a 2nd generation Italian American kid from Brooklyn first to go to college (not satire, true)

2  · 
Rusty!

I have no idea what I just read, but I'll drink to that. I like nonsense that entertains.

3  · 
Non Sequitur

I'm always a fan of a good Bucky story.

1  · 

Rusty! code can be confusing...

in the real world I just went through a hefty audit and an engineer who has been reviewing code for 30 years and I got into a debate and in no uncertain terms I said -

"you're an engineer! you read line by line, one track mind."

and "I'm an architect, I see the entire picture, the narrative, the history and code can't be read that way!".

....in short I'll probably lose, being creative is not supported by this building department ;)

True bucky story NS. I'm trying my best to remember Al's car but can't. He went to Carnegie-Mellon to get away from his mother as he said (strange Italian thing) and then Navy, Japan, and then Princeton and he had money from the Navy work I think and bought this convertible and Bucky was there and was like

- strap this to my car and then Al drove around in the parking lot.

Al pretty much fired me because I was a COCKY YOUNG ARCHITECT (KIDS NOW IS NOT THE TIME), but now that I'm the boss, totally get it man, totally. I would of fired me.

So the question is, zoom or not zoom?

I don't know. If you deliver damn good work after 2 hour hiatus on the interweb,  who cares right?

(I taught CAD, 3D, I know how long stuff takes and totally trust people)

People who have no idea don't trust and micromanage, but if they are your boss KIDS, guess you have to put up with that for a bit....?!?!?or not.

 · 
midlander

Rusty! But at this point I am very used to a PM sending an email at 6pm in response to an email sent at 9am. And yes, that email pretty much negated 20 other emails that were exchanged in that thread. -- isn't this just the essence of architecture work though, learning to judge what work can proceed without review and what needs to wait for input? if it critically depends on specific information to proceed that should be scheduled in, not just fit into the exigencies of daily routines. sometimes (mostly) work can't be 100% efficient; you're always waiting on information from colleagues or decisions from clients. remote work just exacerbates the inefficiencies we can overlook working in close proximity.

3  · 

you midlander should be writing architect practice books - this -

isn't this just the essence of architecture work though, learning to
judge what work can proceed without review and what needs to wait for  input

 · 
x-jla

I hate zoom as well. I don’t even like to face time with my family. It’s annoying. I don’t like phone calls either, because I can’t hear for shit. Text or email only. Or meet me in person. Covid is not going to transmit outdoors standing 10’ away, relax.

 · 
tintt

I can't hear on the phone either. It sounds like everybody talks with marbles in their mouths through several pieces of cloth while riding a horse in a car with the windows down and has some weird accent like Canadian. I wonder if I should get that checked out.

2  · 

the Canuck accent thing is actually quite common....

 · 
tintt

Actual conversation. Contractor "Boy am I glad you answered your phone." Me "Sure" Contractor (something muffled) Me "What?" Contractor "The measurements..." Me "Wait, let me get a pen and paper." Contractor "17 foot 4 and a half for the north wall, 13'7 for the west wall...." Me "Wait, I don't have a paper" Contractor "11 feet for the south or maybe south west wall I don't know what it is" Me "You mean the west wall? The one that faces the outbuilding?" Contractor" And vertical dimensions are 17.25 inches and 84 inches and of course 3 inches inbetween ya know?" Me "Ok, I got a paper, seventeen four and half for the WEST wall, is that out to out?" Contractor "Thanks, let me know if you have any questions!" Me "Can you just email me a sketch with the measurements?" Contractor "What? No. I don't email. Call me anytime."

3  · 
x-jla

Why do all contractors love talking on the phone? I can’t stand it.

 · 

tinntt, so they had their mask on and were actually not glad you answered and tried to garble it through...wait they pretended to have a mask on, contractors aren't the mask wearing types.

 · 
Non Sequitur

Jla, no paper trail and no waiting with phone calls. The GC can make it even more apparent that something insignificant is on fire and requires immediate attention. Also, here’s 9 inferior product substitutions.

 · 
tintt

That one refuses to wear a mask.

 · 

tintt, then they really didn't want you to pick-up and garbled on purpose. sometimes they think they're smart, like will screenshot the call later in a text to you and the client and go - see I tried calling but tintt didn't pick-up...now they'll just say, reception was bad or just flat out lie...I just picked up one those Home Advisor letter type jobs, the client is a cop and uncle made the 4 year nightmare happen of a small addition, taking all money, and lucky for this guy he is a local cop and the local building dept. helped him out...anyway I told him - FIRST THREE LETTERS OF CONTRACTOR - CON... I mean dude, you're a cop, I get it, was family, but you're a cop.

1  · 
tintt

That's one of my lines, first three letters...! I looked at the photos, remembered enough of the call, and managed to figure out what he was trying to say enough to draw some elevations that made the client rethink their whole approach and put the project on hold.  And that's how it's done.

 · 
tintt

Actual conversation with an engineer. Ring ring. A very faint "Fmp." I say "Hello, Bxxxx?" Engineer: barely discernable peep. Me: Some stuff about the project. Engineer, quieter than a piece of dandelion fluff "I can't hear you." Me: "I'm having trouble hearing you too." Engineer: more indistinct mumbling. Me: "Sounds good."

 ·  1

tintt...

Star Wars Welcome Young Jedi Sign by DylansPartyDesigns on Etsy ...

1  · 
x-jla

tintt, actual conversation yesterday...Contractor-hey, you need to call client to talk about blah blah blah....Me-what? Contractor-blah blah....

 · 
x-jla

tintt, actual conversation yesterday...Contractor-hey, you need to call client to talk about blah blah blah....Me-what? Contractor-blah blah....

 · 
x-jla

Later I text after stop driving

 · 
x-jla

Me-what was I calling her about? Sorry, I can’t hear very well on the phone...Contractor-well I can call but would be better if you did. Me, no, I meant that I couldn’t hear you when you explained what I needed to call about!

 · 
x-jla

I’m a design-build contractor as well, and I never call anyone unless it’s to order a pizza of talk to my 96yo grandma.

 · 
code

Well, going the extra mile now, can at least delay the inevitable, sometimes you just got to feed the shark hoping he eats you last

May 22, 20 2:00 pm  · 
 ·  4
square.

you can keep believing in this myth, but at the end of the day the firm will do what's best for the firm

 · 
Dangermouse

i'd rather the shark eat me. i welcome the sweet release of death. preferable to managing a broken sheet set under needlessly compressed deadlines

 · 
curtkram

i must not fear. fear is the mind-killer. fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. i will face my fear. i will permit it to pass over me and through me. and when it has gone past i will turn the inner eye to see its path. where the fear has gone there will be nothing. only i will remain.

 · 
code

Like Rusty said, Many who can't do Zoom correctly, have iffy WIFI(don't want to invest in a decent WIFI, laptops, its a professional investment)  and are unresponsive will be the next to go. 

May 22, 20 2:04 pm  · 
 · 
RickB-Astoria

I can so it shouldn't be too hard. The computer doesn't even need to be a laptop. Can be a desktop. A simple $50 to $125 webcam (if they already have been on Zoom with video then they have that cam), up to $50 or so ethernet cable(s) (up to Cat 8 STP ethernet cables) to get additional Wifi access points or routers located in better location coverage in ALL parts of the home. The Wifi units would be up to $150 each but you can save some money with decent ones for $75 or less and have more of them and get coverage at all location. The rest of the work is networking related and getting your device(s) to connect to each one with passkey and all. If I can do that with a 19th century home, you can do that with a more modern house or apartment. If you live in an apartment, you should be able to use a single Wifi unit and cover every bedroom and living room. Although, you could use two Wifi routers/access points as needed. I don't think you should need because the access point should have the capacity. Other thing to do is to make sure others aren't sucking up all of your 100 Mbps or 1Gig internet service with all that streaming and sh-t like watching movies, streaming and everything at the same time. CONTROL THE KIDS. So just make sure they aren't hammering the f--- out of your internet service. If your computer office is located close to where the cable/dsl or whatever "modem" is located and primary Wifi Router, use ethernet connection. You get more of the data bandwidth. In an apartment, that should be easy.

 · 
x-jla

Zoom is like hell on earth for half deaf introverts with toddlers jumping in the background like myself. I’d rather quit my job than do that bs everyday.

 · 
JBeaumont

Zoom and Teams meetings lag and freeze up a lot for me at home, because I live in a very rural area where the fastest internet speed available is 10 Mbps. There are no faster options available. A number of posts in this thread seem to assume that "can't do zoom correctly" is always a matter within the employees hands - i.e. solvable by improving one's IT skills, buying the right equipment, and/or being willing to invest in better/faster internet. The only things that I would be able to do about my situation are move (pretty drastic solution), or drive to a more favorable location whenever I need to be on a virtual meeting. The latter is what I typically do, though of course these days there have not been as many choices for where I can do this from (no coffee shops, libraries, etc. open), so this usually results in returning to my usual workplace in the city, which of course we're not supposed to be doing right now. 

There are still some fairly large areas of the US that are underserved with internet options - and even still areas where nothing is available but dial-up. Bringing faster internet to remote areas isn't profitable to the providers, so only happens with government subsidies and other sponsorships, which are spotty and state-dependent - not consistent throughout the US.  Perhaps the current crisis and resulting permanent changes to expectations about working and learning from home will result in internet being viewed as as much of a near-necessity as electricity and running water - but so far that is not the case everywhere.

1  · 
RickB-Astoria

Most interns work in cities with apartments mostly in or near the urban core but even outside the urban core, you would likely be in a location close enough to commute within a reasonable time of 15-20 minutes to work. Most cities have good internet throughout the city and suburbs and to extent of sprawl plus some but if you live outside those areas, your screwed. I live in a small town but the town has decent internet for the town but go outside it for a few miles and you will run right into crud ville. Most architects out here NEVER hire because they just don't get enough work. Exceptions happens once in awhile. I agree with your point in general. You make a fair point though and more pause should be considered for the exceptions that exists like you said. If I was out where you were, I may be looking to implement use of some of the special techology that does exist but that's for another discussion which I may talk with you about but some options are not cheap so I don't think it would be easy for an intern.

 · 
JBeaumont

In my firm there is only one person, out of 40+, who lives in an apartment, and 2 others who own condos within the city. We're not at all unusual for our location - we are pretty much the norm in this mostly-rural state. The firm is located in the largest city in the state, as are the majority of firms here, especially those with multiple employees. Renting within the city itself is expensive and competitive - most renters are college students, those on public assistance, and a smattering of single high-income urban professionals - there's very little middle ground. Nearly all of the staff own homes farther into the suburbs or rural areas, within a 20 to 60 minute commute. We do have good internet in the city - as I said, I sometimes have to return to the office for it even though we're not supposed to be doing that. Several of us do not have good internet at home, because it simply is not available in this part of the state (nor is cell service). We've been doing fine on most fronts working from home, but online meetings don't work great for some of us. I'm aware of options to increase internet speed where I am, and have implemented those to the best that they can work, but the options are quite limited once outside of the greater urban area.

 · 
curtkram

could be worse. in my neighborhood we're getting 5g towers, which is how the government is spreading the 'rona

1  · 
RickB-Astoria

JBeaumont, wow... interesting that you are located in a further backworld location than I am. There is possibly a few options for getting at least 100 Mbps wirelessly to you but honestly I would have to actually see the location for LOS (line of sight) viewing corridor for some of the stuff I am aware of but I don't think it is something that would be financially small stuff. 

Example link: 

Ubiquiti 24 GHz antenna

You would need a clear line of sight between office and your home. Chances of getting this to pass regulations of zoning and whatever else is close to zero. There maybe some other options but a 100 Mbps service would get you in the better zone for the video conferencing via Zoom. Actually 50 Mbps could do but 10 mbps is not really good unless you drop the resolution down to 800 x 600 level with the web cam. I don't recall Zoom having that level of control but there maybe something.


 · 
RickB-Astoria

You would basically need TWO of these antennas setups. One for each location. Can't really help your employees per se. There needs to be an infrastructure upgrade which I am amazed doesn't exist for ya but I can understand it. There's places in Oregon like that as well.

We just don't usually see architectural firms in such locations when they can be be located 10-20 miles outside the metropolitan area of cities like Portland, Oregon and Salem where there would be decent 100 Mbps services and possibly 1 Gbps services from cable company (for example).


 · 
RickB-Astoria

There maybe a model of this type of setup that basically gives you 100+ miles. I know of directional Wifi that can go miles on a boosted output. Another option I may offer you to consider when doing group meetings is meeting by VOIP meetings. No video.... just voice and text. Options for you at this time at your bandwidth capacity would best be served by Teamspeak and similar software. They have a considerably less demanding requirement than video conferencing.

You can employ an organizational policy for employees to use their first and last name with maybe an underscore in lieu of space bar. 

 · 
JBeaumont

Rick, thanks for the ideas, but as I said above: I have already investigated the possibilities. Everything that is possible here has already been done - it's not that the firm is ignorant of solutions that exist - we have a capable IT department that has taken available technical solutions to their practical limits in this area. There is most definitely not a clear line of site from my office to my home - I live on the other side of a mountain range. The issue with Zoom and Teams meetings is that they are not generally scheduled by me, and we can't control the software that the OPMs, CMs, etc. use just because a few team members have issues.

To bring this back to the general, and not mine personally: wifi speed is just one more logistical factor, like childcare needs, job duties/role, etc. that make everybody's work at home success different. This thread has just seemed a little judgy about employees' abilities to control all factors on their end - that's all I was trying to get across.

As for living in the backworld: this is a big country and even the least populated states in it have hundreds of firms each. Forum posters often default to assuming they're talking to entry-level employees in urban locations, and forget every other demographic. This thread, for example, was started by a licensed professional with 35 years of experience, and yet you and others have repeatedly geared your comments toward "interns".

1  · 
RickB-Astoria

Yeah, I would have to look at things where your at for more advice on it anyway. If it was me, I wouldn't be using Zoom or Teams without reliable 50+ mbps services where your employees are and ideally 1 Gbps service where your office is. I would use something less demanding like Teamspeak. If video face to face isn't that important, TS and similar programs would serve better with the low end internet service in your area. The problem is getting everyone on board using the same program(s) like you mentioned. 

I kind of have the luxury to choose the software I use and granted my internet was a little better than yours until upgraded to 100 Mbps. I apologize for not thinking about other demographics than the entry-level intern which became a dominant perspective around here. I agree with where you are coming from. 

Given that my position in my own business basically is akin to principals and effectively have controlling decision on IT matters with my own background, I can easily forget or not think about those in mid-career like the OP and those in your situation. I would reason those at entry-level wouldn't have much of any decision making over what software to use for their work.... only what they have at home / purchase. Even as "principal", I have to deal with logistical matters with others whom I don't control like the clients and third-party so I will try to accommodate all software situation as possible. 

Now regarding things in general part, I don't disagree with you. We probably should be less judgmental and not thinking about all demographics. I agree that there's a bit too much assumption. Wifi is something a person can do but like you said, they have to work that logistics in with all the other issues like those you mentioned such as childcare, food, and everything else. Wifi in the home can be easily addressed. If I can afford it even with sh-t for income, most employees should be able to at some point. Maybe not in the first paycheck after entering the WFH situation. It does depend on their working situation, though.

There's places so technologically "stone-age", they are still dial-up with old modems with the last vestiges of dial-up internet service providers on the planet still hoping to get 28.8 kbps connection. It could be worse.

 · 
RickB-Astoria

Wifi doesn't necessarily address all aspects of poor quality access to Zoom. It only helps to address things within your local area network but if your wide area network (WAN).... (in this case... your ISP internet service link is pathetic in the world of "broadband" internet services, no amount of fancy Wifi will get you anywhere with Zoom or other video conferencing with quality. Why? Even if you have a local area network that is like a fire hose but your connection to the internet is like the diameter of one of those thin straws to drink coffee or hot chocolate through.... you get the idea. An adequate end to end solution would have to be available.... something you simply can't afford to do out of pocket.

 · 
RickB-Astoria

What would it cost to get good internet like 1 gbps fiber optic to someone like JBeaumont? Think a good $20,000 per mile plus $500-1000 per home or business link up (some cases more for homes located a great distance from a utility pole or location for hook up in public right-of-way). [reference: https://www.otelco.com/fiber-infrastructure/ ] We are talking a good 6 to 7 digits for 50 miles. Underground running of the fiber optic would cost a LOT more especially where they can't run it on poles. ( https://www.ctcnet.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/CTCCostsForAnchorInstitutions.pdf ) Short, it isn't going to happen unless federal GRANT money and state GRANT money was paying for it or a good 75% of the cost.

 · 
RickB-Astoria

Sure, if employees were paid 7 digits figures a week, they can afford such costs. Yeah, I can say it isn't always a clear option. JBeaumont brought some good points where there is a lot of places where employees simply can't get the high speed internet needed for video conferencing with 40 people. Depending on where you live, Zoom and such are not adequately supported by the ISP services available to you. Even if you have in your personal home a local area network capable of moving around 100 Terabits per second. I could be a wacky dick with a hundred IBM Summit Supercomputers interconnected by a network of 100 Terabits per second networking..... it will not do a f---ing difference to my internet service connection if it is only limited to a meager 100 mbps or if I was in the most back world shit hole in God's universe with internet limited to 75 baud. I exaggerated some to illustrate a point where there is telecommunication bottlenecks and frankly, the employee (no matter where they are in career) can really do anything much to improve what level of internet services are in their location. It might not be the router or the Wifi. It could be simply a sucky ISP service that is all they have. The only choice they have is live where they are or move. This isn't always feasible in the midst of the coronavirus. JBeaumont made some good points. Anyway, this tangent can be hidden but keep JBeaumont's good points visible to remind us to not be so assumptuous.

 · 
RickB-Astoria

JBeaumont, the original poster is Threeohdoor... page 1:

"With the apocalypse upon us, I propose a thread to discuss lay-offs (numbers, experiences, trends, etc). The other COVID thread has gone to seed (politically) and honestly, we might need a space to vent.

Yours truly got the ax yesterday as well as everyone save principals. We worked a lot in restaurants, retails, etc - the sort of projects that are dead on arrival now. Sucks. And now the NYS Unemployment site keeps crashing. Double sucks. 

So I'm going to crack open a beverage and give everyone a digital cheers!

Stay safe and stay healthy."

I don't know Threeohdoor's personal experience in architecture enough to know number of years... or at least recall it. 

It is not Tex_arch. Remember, we are on page 5 or possibly 6.

May 24, 20 2:17 am  · 
 · 
TED

Sorry @RickB that sucks but you seem to be a clever lad so wishing you the best!

May 24, 20 6:41 am  · 
 · 
RickB-Astoria

Um, the quote was of threeohdoor. Sorry if that wasn't clear but I do second the sentiment you have for threeohdoor's situation. Yeah, it does suck and wish him best.

 · 

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