I’m trying to get a garage built and this is absolutely true. Builders are VERY BUSY.

If you can draft contact a builder. Many states let the home owner like Liberty here be on the permit only, no architect (unless structural). Drum up the work, get in at the floor level. Home Advisor as a "Drafting" option, Bark.com also good. I'll also note, in the past not all home owners would pick-up on leads, but now, they are all HOME! they pick-up, you can basically schedule at your convenience. Get out there!

lumber went up 15% in the first week in April. its up 250% since the shut down started.

A lumber mill in Canada either stopped production or stopped shipping to the US about 3 months ago. Sorry that I can't recall which it was but my understanding is that is what's causing the supply shortage.

I'm in the Northeast, we can control things better than you northern mountain folk...

From your OP it sure doesn't sound like it . . .

we made the 250% look like 15%, it's called media and politics...just sayin'

did you know in Russia anyone who dies of Covid is claimed to have died of pre-existing conditions? (zee Russian clients tell me this)

in the US, we finance if it's Covid, yes hospitals get more money.. See that comes from us in Northeast, you're just out there living like a farmer monkey (Iowa, Colorado, etc...), we tell you the facts. Don't question me CHAD! (zee 'merican clients tell me this)

...totally kidding, kids get out there, plenty of work, the MEDIA is not reality. (I'm having a Marshall McLuhan moment, my bad)

I think you have an undiagnosed or at least untreated mental illness. Why else would you be on here over the weekend giving such 'inventive' comments? I'm stuck at the office setting up my new desk. What's your excuse?

I'm working, pretty much every day. I comment. Go back to work, comment, go back to work. You sure you're ok? Chad, how did you fail in life to be setting up up in office your new desk on a weekend? I'm the boss, how do you suck so bad at life (I'm kidding, I don't really care)...anyway any links on the 250% vs 15%, that's interesting at least.

https://m.investing.com/commodities/lumber-historical-data

or just go to home depot... 4x8 sheet of osb... $30... could get this for $10-13 pre-covid

you da man!

Stay on your meds DWG.

I've been having to get up to speed on mtl stud and gypsum sheathing for my side hustles... for the first time ever it's cheaper that way, but I'm not happy throwing mtl stud together at all.

don't work for a firm that drug tests and don't work for a firm that asks you to vaccinate. I could only see this happening if the client requested it.

Why you don’t want to be vaccinated against this or any other disease, why is this different than other diseases for which science came up with life saving vaccines? I wouldn’t want to work with antivaxxers...

I hope that offices don’t force people to work with anti-vaxers. That would be so hard to work with such an uneducated peer group.

Its not clear to me why we are fine with public health authorities mandating vaccination for children to attend school, but for some reason to mandate the same for covid in the workplace suddenly this is unacceptable.

Non, if you have the vax, then anti vaxers are or no danger to you.

I’m not an anti vaxer at all, but definitely don’t trust a vaccine that was rushed into production and development for a disease that we hardly understand. “Uneducated” people can do the research themselves, but poorly developed vaccines can and have been dangerous, and the comparable risk of covid for my healthy kids is slim to none.

again with this pablum; "anti vaxers are or no danger to you"

Anti vax cunts are a threat to everyone.

If the vaccine works, then you are safe. Only other non-vaccinated people would be affected.

X-jla, I had the same misgivings but apparently the red tape that is being cut is the studies being rushed ahead to first in line before other diseases. They arent cutting out tests and run times and samplings. From what was explained to me it's the same duration of tests just the tests are first priority over everything else. Many vaccines and treatments wait in year long lines or take years to get a sampling population to sign up and be approved.

x-jla, it isn't per se rushed in the scientific way, they've simply allocated massive amounts of resources and manpower(f/m/x) to make it all go faster where it can go faster...but if non-vaccinated people clog the entire healthcare system because of COVID that could've been prevented because a working vaccine, anybody else with other conditions might be affected too...no respirators available perhaps the easiest imaginable, or the annual check up for breast cancer pushed back just a couple of weeks, turning that stage I lump in a stage IV clusterfuck etc. If the system is overworked and stretched too thin because of COVID, it affects all other healthcare aspects as well!

Sometimes, just sometimes, we agree. This point we agree, but I hate writing down the obvious for people.

but folks, people like jla and his ilk have several phd degrees in youtube research. Certainly we can't just dismiss their expertise that quickly can we?

narrator: we can

the virus needs a host to grow and spread. more people that can get the virus means more people will get it, which means the virus continues to grow, adapt, mutate, etc. if everyone is vaccinated the virus will find it harder to grow and spread, so it would be able to adapt and mutate as easy.

curt, now you're just talking in sanity terms.

“I’m not an anti vaxer at all, but definitely don’t trust a vaccine that was rushed into production and development for a disease that we hardly understand.“ -jlax

Didn’t say I’m anti vaccine. Just had concerns that it is being rushed. If what random and archi-dude say is true regarding development, that’s good. I was under the impression that this was being done at an unprecedented speed of development...As for mandatory vaccination, nah...fuck that. Vaccines shouldn’t/won’t ever be mandatory in the US. For school, yeah that do that, But mandatory to attend is way different than mandatory in general.

it will probably be mandatory to enter costco as well. i assume they will either issue an identification card along with the vaccine to prove you got it, or microchip us.

Mandatory for everyone. Fuck your individual philosophy. You would not say the same with polio vaccine.

Good luck with that holding up in court, and if it does, then people like myself will not get it out of protest. Government forcing anything into my body, regardless of the science, is not happening. No other vaccine is mandatory, including tb which is far deadlier and kills 1.5 million people a year.

Shit philosophy.

most (maybe all, i don't really know) hospitals require flu shots every year for all employees

when people choose not to get vaccinated due to some personal philosophy or bad information they're saying through their actions that they don't care about people who have allergies to the vaccine or have immune systems which cannot handle it and think their deaths are acceptable. Fuck those people.

When I was a kid, I was at a doctors appointment. In another exam room a younger kid had an allergic reaction to a vaccine and died. Vaccines are mostly safe, but nothing is 100%. Having the disposition that questioning the development of a vaccine, the safety, and the effectiveness is bad, like non did above is more or a “philosophy”. I’m going to do my research, and if the odds say vaccine is better than covid, which they probably will, and the testing isn’t suspect, I’ll get it.

I believe nothing coming from the govt or fake news these days, and with the race between nations to compete for a vaccine, politics and greed can possibly cause big pharmaceutical companies to rush development, or cut corners.

You severely overestimate your ability to do impartial research and you base your entire shitty philosophy on a statistically insignificant anecdotal experience from decades ago. This is just garbage anti vax nonsense. No question.

“This is just garbage anti vax nonsense”. I am not anti-vax, I repeat, I am not anti-vax.

You are by association regardless of how much you claim not to be.

That’s the most ignorant statement I’ve heard all week. Doctor: excessive Alcohol Use causes liver damage. Non: you support prohibition by association!

You support anti-vaxxers' "freedom" to contribute to the continuing death of people like the boy you trot out. Yes, he died due to an allergy, but had he survived in a world where anti-vaxxers' "freedoms" were entertained he would have died of the disease the vaccination protects him from through herd immunity, which cannot happen when anti-vaxxers get their "freedom". So as usual you're talking so loudly out of both sides of your mouth that everything you say is gibberish.

There isn't just a problem between the races, it's a problem with kkkops killing Black people.

Trump is rushing the vaccine, not science, it's political, not medicine.

Jla, you must have set yourself on ignore if my comment is the most “ignorant one” you’ve read. Try and catch up.

SP, Yes, I support anti vaxxers freedom to not have the government force something into their bodies. Why is this suddenly controversial? It’s pretty basic, and the precedent it would set is more dangerous.

Is tyranny acceptable from a grassroots group of morons?

How about the idea that you don't have to vaccinate, but we as a society don't have to give you access to benefits that you would endanger like schooling, public transit, etc?

You support freedom only under the crop of laws that support your predisposed world view. You dance around singing about freedom until it's inconvenient. You trot out law and order until it's inconvenient. You contort yourself into positions a circus performer would envy in order to pretend you're stalwart and unchangingly principled. You're a flim-flam artist with words to sell. You waste your time on an architecture website shouting into a void making no difference. You are worthless.

That’s what they do with public schools anyway, so I’d say it’s probably what they will do for covid. Something like 50% of Americans say that they won’t vaccinate, so it’s probably going to be difficult to enforce though.

Sorry, it’s 35% according to polls.

All mandatory things require a police backing by nature. Do the police then arrest people for not complying? Probably will disproportionately affect dem led areas and minorities since most red states would refuse to enforce it.

Do you only not murder people because the police exist?

New m’erican solution when the vaccine gets out: get the corona shot, get a free gun. Problem solved, everyone will line up.

You could run a wikipedia article back and forth through google translate for an hour. Luckily we have Balkins so we don't have to waste the time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy

Non, gun sales are up so high the gun stores are almost completely empty, so that may work.

The right-wingers solution to violence: more violence.

“Do you only not murder people because the police exist?” No, but without police it’s safe to say crime would go up, as it has recently in cities around the nation. mandatory without consequences is same as saying voluntary. Why then create the likely backlash by calling it mandatory if it’s not going to be enforced. You will get more compliance without creating the mandatory mask effect where something so simple and easy to do becomes a political statement

Maybe an incentive, like a break on insurance? That’s a more effective strategy maybe.

The police still exist, yet crime has gone up, and this somehow supports your position that police are the conduit through which compliance with laws is made effective. Debating you is fucking exhausting. Can we get someone up in this motherfucker to enfore consistent statements from jla-x? They are certainly not going to do it on their own.

Balkins, your regurgitations of news articles you have read are unwelcome. What is your point? We shouldn't bother? It doesn't matter? Or is your point, as usual, to try and sound smart? To try and sound like you know stuff? Knowing factoids is meaningless unless you do something with them. What is your POINT?

This took some weird turns but I wanna pull the thread back to here: "If the vaccine works, then you are safe. Only other non-vaccinated people would be affected." 

The assumption that people can't be acting out of empathy is, uh, telling.

SP, crime is surging in the wake of anti-police sentiment. That’s a fact. Police are standing down amid the chaos, and people are taking advantage of the situation and causing more crime. Normal people will obey law without police, many will break laws if we remove police and they have opportunity, some will break the laws regardless. Without police, crime will go up. It’s tiring to argue with YOU because you are completely ignoring the reality of what’s happening, and you know it. Dem run cities where cops are standing down are being destroyed, burnt, people are being assaulted, killed, etc.

I'm not ignoring anything, I'm choosing not to engage with your carefully curated rhetorical bait because the root causes of these issues is something that is unwelcome, and without it your half of the conversation are filled with pointless, race-baiting diatribes that serve no functional purpose.

Balkins enters the chat. rip my inbox.

Dem run cities where cops are standing down are being destroyed, burnt, people are being assaulted, killed, etc.

-Donald Tr.. er jxlax

https://www.vox.com/2020/8/3/2...

“The right-wingers solution to violence: more violence.“. You dim wit. Self defense is not violence. Without police who do you think will protect people? Peolle will obviously need firearms right? Or do you suppose once the police are gone everyone will become nice and peaceful for the first time ever?

This mf links a vox article. It’s like half the country is living in an alternative reality. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/nyc-murders-up-50-for-month-of-july-nypd-stats-show/2548281/%3famp

“Fiery but mostly peaceful protests” -cnn. Talk about newspeak and you all fall for it. It’s unreal. I’m out.

Nobody NEEDS firearms. Before they were invented people existed.

More than half.

"republican city"

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2020/08/10/triple-shooting-marks-the-latest-violent-crime-to-hit-jacksonville-parks/

see i can selectively choose new stories to back up my argument too!

I often wish "Republican" could be shortened to something and used as an insult, then I realize that the use of the grammatically incorrect slur "Democrat" instead of "Democratic" just shows how short on substance the morons who use it are.

yes. unfortunately xlax just isn't that bright.

“SneakyPete
Nobody NEEDS firearms. Before they were invented people existed.“. Yeah you are too dumb to waste my time on.

Congrats. You now hold title for dumbest thing I’ve heard all week.

Square, Dems run cities into the ground. We know this from many many examples. No need to cherry-pick

I already suspected you don't listen to yourself. Thanks for confirming it.

who's we? literally no one agreeing with you here. it's the echo-chamber as usual.

pro-murder toy / anti vaxx!

 vote for JLA! 

 good slogan.

Pro rioting and violence, anti self defense! Spread eagle like a good American! Vote non

^ dumb and unoriginal.

Still better than libertarian.

Libertarian is code for cowardly Republicans.

Haha. I don’t understand how tf you support looting and violence, defunding police, and giving up guns without understanding that someone is getting fucked in the ass?

Did you all grow up in Mayberry and just don’t understand that crime is real and not just in the movies?

Leftist is code word for cowardly commie

I don't call myself a leftist. You call yourself a libertarian. I don't apply a label to myself in order to try and avoid the consequences of the views I hold. That's your bag, baby.

unlike you i still live in nyc, and have lived in cities for my entire adult life, which means i am the one living in reality and you are stuck in the past. this talk of decline is cities is incredibly overblown; take it from someone who actually lives in one and doesn't speculate from a basement in the burbs.

Jia’s jive is a great advertisement for why firearms should not be made available to just any wanker with a pulse. Should really be ashamed of sporting big such poor POV.

Square, it’s in decline. Where u at in NY?

brooklyn. yes there is "relative" economic decline, but this is natural- all cities and regions go through periods of growth and contraction, or crisis/recession. and actually my neighborhood is livelier than every because everyone is here all day with wfh. however it is no where near the 70s, and it won't be. my sense is the people who are leaving are the ones who probably were never here for the long run. i even know of some acquaintances who are moving here now.

manhattan is a different story, but who cares. that version of manhattan needed to die; i won't be missing cheesecake factory anytime soon.

Read this piece. It’s by a comedy club owner in nyc. https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/08/17/nyc-is-dead-forever-heres-why-james-altucher/amp/ The problem is, what I pointed out about a year ago with the AOC amazon thing. The city is dependent upon the tax payer class. The top 1% pays like 43% of city taxes and 50% of states taxes. If they leave, who picks up the tab?

If the rich paid their share everywhere they'd have nowhere to go to launder their cash.

The tax billionaires thing sounds nice, until the survival of the city ends up in their lap, then they control everything, and in today’s world can leave with no problem. This isn’t 1920 where we companies are geographically dependent.

SP, they pay more than their share.

Good counterpoint to that Altucher piece. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/24/opinion/jerry-seinfeld-new-york-coronavirus.html

"You ever wonder why Silicon Valley even exists? I have always wondered, why do these people all live and work in that location? They have all this insane technology; why don’t they all just spread out wherever they want to be and connect with their devices? Because it doesn’t work, that’s why."

i understand jla and have read more about this issue than you, most likely. sure- nyc is dependent on the super rich because post 1970s the economy was designed that way. but the argument "don't tax the super rich because new york is dependent on the super rich and they will leave" is a tautology. the city has existed in many different economic forms before (see the laguardia era, not to mention other contemporary cities that don't have this problem) and it will change once again, with growing pains for sure. i for one welcome it.

i had an apothic cab with lasagna for dinner

Nice nice... garlic bread also present? I just cracked open a local craft 6% IPA as a post climbing gym thirst quencher.

white russian

'another caucasian, gary.'

did not have garlic bread. i'm trying to get rid of carbs (lasagna was not a step in the right direction)

I've been on a real pilsner / lager kick lately. Tonight's sampling was a Helles Lager by Crux, followed by the tried & true workhorse Trumer Pils, then a nice Von Ebert Pilsner to wind down after dinner.

tduds, that's one thing, and perhaps the only thing, you guys have done right down there... our booze laws put so many hurdles that cross-province distribution is almost impossible. I've got plans to crack this bad boy tonight.

Yes, you read that correctly... a 18% imperial stout.  I'm on vacation afterall. Also, why u no use untappd app anymore?

That's more my speed. One bottle is all you need for the evening.

Now I get it, you’re all just a bunch of alcoholics ;-)

Now I get it, I can be a dick as long as I use the proper emoji. You wanker. ;-)

Same as every night, Pinky...diet orange soda.

^ I appreciate the reference... so thumbs up for that but, should be thumbs down for the non-beer beverage.

Non - I've ventured north a handful of times and every time I've been baffled by the whole process of beer acquisition (outside of a pub). Oregon is a wonderland of free-flowing booze, in comparison.

I guess it was the Canadians who were the true puritans the whole time! *gasp*

Sorry, NS, I'm a teetotaler. At least my friends always have a designated driver.

I'm not much of a beer drinker. Being a T1D I limit myself to whiskey and diet coke - doesn't mess with my blood sugars.

Last night I had a mint julep. Tonight I will as well.

Cheers Sneaky! Still in denial I see “ ;-) ”

I was JUST KIDDING. DID YOU NOT SEE THE EMOJI!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Keepin' it classy Donna.

Quality internetting

I'm a day late (last night was weed) but today has consisted of lunch beers (strong Canadian IPAs) followed by afternoon beers (10% double IPAs) on the way home. Maybe more tonight. I need to get some exercise in at some point....

10% double IPA are my jam. Can’t get enough of them juicy doubles.

How’s the hangover Sneaky, or the bender still going?

Last night's tasting included Buoy Pale Ale and Pelican Hazy IPA. We've got about 20 different beers in our fridge and almost all of them are in-state. Gotta love Oregon.

I've been limiting myself to one alcoholic beverage a day for a couple weeks.

Define the volume of 'one alcoholic beverage'.

If I drink whiskey straight from the bottle does it count as "one"?

One beer, one lower-than-halfway-up-the-side-of-the-glass glass of wine, one cocktail with less than 3 oz of total liquid not including water with bubbles, etc .

I specifically keep a big stock of lower alcohol beers because I know I'm going to drink more than one. I save the >6%ers for weekends.

I wish the medical community would figure out the health effects of alcohol already. It's been 3, 2, and 1 per day at various times and I'm tired of worrying. I like how beer tastes. If they made a decent N/A version I would drink it. But they don't, and the session beers are still one serving of alcohol per can / bottle.

Eh, unless they come out with some new study that demonstrates some wildly severe health risk, I'm just going to enjoy my life. Nothing is without risk. It's all about balancing risk and joy. I'd rather have 80 happy years than 100 miserable ones.

That's a good point, and if I were walking as much as I did before WFH, I'd be on board. But with the extra calories and the waffling on other health detriments, I'm seeing what this limiting does for my health (feeling-wise, not empirical).

I just spent a lot of money on a nice bike so I can drink more beer without guilt. So, we all have our ways of coping.

That said a few times a year I go sober for a week or two. Mostly to prove to myself that I still can. 

Living in a dense area with lots of people who gather without masks makes me very reticent to go out daily for heavy breathing exercises, and I like not using the car more than once or twice a week, makes me feel like a responsible human. Shit's complicated. We also would need to take our bikes down from the wall, into the elevators, etc etc. Excuses are really easy.

I try to drink a new beer every day. It’s a great hobby.

SP, I'd be up for a thread on NA beers, or NA options in general. I wish there were more options out there, but I think it's one of those things that takes demand before the supply will come.

I'll see what I can find, I honestly haven't looked in a few years.

Obvious update: going for a run with 5 very strong beers in my stomach was not my best idea. Going running tonight before beers this time.

*hork*

A burrito before a workout can also be a problem.

*el hork*

Follow up to my update: it started raining and I went straight to the beer. Whatchagonnado?

laberinto sauvignon blanc with stir fry

Margarita

There were posts purged here when they were not about COVID related layoffs, now everybody is talking about their alcohol intake, funny how that goes...

Because booze is an awesome subject.

But off-topic...not all pigs are equal, I get it.

it's on topic because it's a good topic. Also, pigs are delicious, so that's a good thing

I remember this thread was scrubbed clean meticulously, even posts that were somehow COVID lay-off adjacent got deleted...I just don’t get the double standard. Actually stopped eating meat myself some years ago.

liking the no-meat-eating part.

Me too, can highly recommend it

We try to keep >50% of our meals meat-free, and even when I do cook with meat it's usually a small portion. Also, been trying to buy meat from local butchers / farmer's markets instead of the grocery store. It's so much better, and worth the extra cost if you're only eating a pound or so of meat per week.

Can say I’ve reduced meat in our dinners by about 50% over the last year or so. We now do the weekly dinner boxes so I’ll pick a veg or fish dish when available. I ain’t getting rid of my grill tho.

+1 on reducing meat intake. 

SP, there was a twitter thread I saw a year or so ago where someone who recently gave up alcohol was asking for everyone's favorite NA beer (I'll see if I can find it). I couldn't find a lot in my area, but there were some on there that I was able to try out. Kaliber by Guiness, Clausthaler, I think Heineken Zero was relatively new at the time in the states (their ads are all over F1 races now). 

A non-beer option that I find delightful is Lagunitas Hop Water. Much sweeter than I was expecting, but not sugary. Zero calories, zero alcohol. We were at a bar for an engagement party for one of my wife's friends and we saw it. Wife tried it, and we bought the place out when we left at the end of the night (it was only 6-7 bottles). I'd take that over a soda any day.

They also make good weed water.

I love the Lagunitas hop soda. Blanking on the name right now (I'll go fish the can out of the recycling in a bit) but I had a delicious hopped green tea soda today with lunch.

It's also pretty common lately in the PNW to see non-alcoholic Kombucha on tap at bars. It's a great way to participate in the social aspect of pubs (well, once they open up again...) without needing to participate in the alcohol part.

I just went to the Lagunitas website to look up the hop water to see if I can get it anywhere closer to me, and it looks like they changed the name to "Hoppy Refresher"

I can't comment on Denver however things seem to be blowing up here on the Western Slope. Granted these aren't ground breaking, innovative design - just normal architecture. We're still busy and need more experienced people.

I want to move to Grand Junction and work part time and grow grapes part time.

If you could afford to grow grapes here in the Grand Valley then you'd already be wealthy.

i've been away from 'rado so long that I have no sense of what the viticulture scene is like up there now that it has developed more. Is it all rich people's vanity projects?

That or it's well established farmers who own large amount of property and water rights. There are a few smaller farmers out there but it's still expensive to buy in.

What’s your sideline?

Exactly, organise! I managed to do less for more pay, includes a pension plan, paid holidays and all travel expenses paid...

love the idea of the lobby. not sure exactly what they are doing though. especially in regards to this problem. there's no collective bargaining mechanism or anything close to it.. for now we're all left to fend for ourselves in the market.

I think you'll find that there's a lot there. Also if you listen to Buildings On Air podcast, Keefer does a great job of making the case.

I wish the Arch Lobby would be a tiny bit less revolutionary and focus on their core mission of advocating for and organizing better working conditions for architects. A lot of their "demands" read like a sophomore philosophy major's fantasies, when I'm pretty sure that the organizing, equitable and fair pay, and diversity elements of their platform would naturally take care of many of the other issues. I still support them - shades of "goodness" - just because you don't exactly agree with someone's platform doesn't mean you throw it out entirely.

I've read the recent changes to the manifesto, it's much more evolved in the language, so I'll forgive earlier iterations. The part that lands a little odd for me is this insistence that "class" issues will solve "race" issues. We've had 400 years of racial inequity, and maybe 50+ of class.

totally beta, i'm all in. love a lot of the talking points. and i follow it pretty closely, because there's really no alternative. i'm just waiting for some material action- feels like mostly talking committees sans the organizing, particularly for the latest "hot" issue (border wall, green new deal, etc.). i second what arch said, this type of organizing often looks small and incremental. but we're a profession, and it needs to start somewhere. i'm very envious of friends who are in unions and not coincidentally have great benefits, salaries and rights. if these goals aren't achievable, then perhaps direct confrontation with the aia would be a good route.

at the end of the day i'm certainly cheering for their success.

what's been really interesting is how the manifesto expands the "architectural worker" paradigm, to include anyone connected to the profession. That seems like a game changer.

On one episode of Buildings On Air, they talked long about the Architecture Union in Brazil, that seems like a great model.

This right here;

solving Class issues solves a lot of issues. calling anyone related to architecture or allowing anyone in to architecture solves more problems but BEWARE the AIA - my bruh Ancient linked this elsewhere -Ponce feature (bottom bottom)    (start at page 38 in Google link)

Read that book and you'll see, the elite (AIA) took out a bottoms-up  kind of movement based on what we architect do - over the top professionalism fake lawyer speak kind of stuff.

Curious if maybe what would solve a lot of these issues is a federal law against unpaid overtime for salary positions. Or even a lower work week than 40hrs. For example 10% unemployment means a surplus of 10% labor, reduce the work week by 10%.

correct me if I am wrong, but unless you're licensed you get paid for overtime regardless? (I pay 1.5 times, hoping that is correct?) we're set-up as hourlies 40 hours a week. Is there a legal definition of Salary I'm not aware of?

I had one job like that DTL. and it helped put pressure on management to correctly staff the jobs or extend deadlines. Most firms I worked at didnt do that. Salary basically meant unlimited hours for the same pay. *(

It depends on the state and their labor laws. Here in Colorado there is a line in the state labor laws about how if you're a professional and manage others then you're exempt from overtime if you make more than $35,568 a year (this will increase to $55,000 by 2024)

Chad, that's a nationwide federal labor law. Reposting my post below from the Typical Vacation Days thread when the topic of overtime pay came up:

"Here's an overview from the Dept. of Labor. Note that most architects and aspiring architects could be classified as exempt per the professional exemption assuming they get paid enough ($684 per week or $35,568 per year). https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/17a-overtime"

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. It depends on your state's overtime pay exemption laws are as some states are more stringent on who can be classified as overtime exempt. Colorado used to have a very broad interpretation of the federal overtime laws and classified anyone with any type of education beyond high school under the federal 'Professional Exemption'. They have now softened quite a bit and have a more restrictions on classifying someone as overtime exempt. Thus interns must be paid overtime in Colorado by state law.

Basically Colorado said that you have to meet several of the criteria from several of the Federal Exemptions (Executive and Professional).  It's a bit confusing.  

Honestly, the AIA, Dead White Man Walking.

I'm not one to join anything (systems are bad), but this lobby may be interesting....I'll look into it. and Yes AIA, they offer great contracts, what is that? Great Lawyer shit in the construction industry, thanks. Get the Lawyers the fuck out!

A firm in Virginia is hiring people with 1-2 years experience. For $10-$15 per hour, depending on Revit skills.

$10/hr to operate complex software like Revit. incredibly sad.

Walmart pays better than that, and with less stress/work. Seriously for those thinking about taking those kind of jobs to ride through it for now. You are better off quitting the field.

We pay around $18 an hour for fresh out of school interns with no previous office experience.

The noobs in my town want $23-25 per hour for zero skills and zero experience.

I'm with Jay on this one. I used to work at a supermarket, way more chill if the price point was only close ha.

Thisisnotmyname - is that for a grad student? Seems fair for the pre-covid market.

Depends on where you live. On a related note a MA has no more experience in architecture than someone with a BA and is not worth more pay right out of school - assuming each has a similar portfolio and student work experience.

thisisnotmyname - where are you practicing that fresh grads want $23-$25 an hour?

@ Chad: New Orleans. Federal Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) figures from May 2019 had the average wage for bottom 10% of architect positions (in other words: entry level) in the city at $25.24 per hour. The BLS resources are here: https://www.bls.gov/oes/tables.htm

Well there you go. Sounds like your area is under paying people and the new blood has caught on.

That being said it dose seem that the BLS number is about 18% too high based on cost of living and the average pay for an intern.  

Where did you find the numbers for COL and avg.pay to arrive at that BLS is 18% too high?

The guy who pushes the broom on my site and cleans up random stuff for the super makes $23/hr. There are better jobs out there than ones that try to substitute compensation with fulfillment of ones passion of architecture.

Very true, did some work as a mover and they are a very happy bunch...no burn-outs or depressions there, also loved their attitude that a good mover is a lazy mover.

thisisnotmyname - I got it from department of labor website, an AIA annual compensation report for Colorado, information from colleagues, and my personal experience.

archi - where do you practice though? Location makes a huge difference.

archi_dude I agree with you to a point. But that's very short term thinking. The guy sweeping on site will be very lucky to ever make $30/hr and will have a broken body long before retirement. The pay ceiling is much higher for architects in the long run, and the only trade off is a weak body, borderline alcoholism, and a heart attack before 60.

don't forget divorce!

the first guy I met sweeping floors made nearly triple my starting salary as architect...(union).

Huh? You work when you work. If you cannot finish it, push it to next day. Work is endless. If your supervisor pressures you and expects you to work overtime to finish the work. You are in a shitty exploitative firm.

Sounds like a plan. You are right to interpret the forced PTO as a warning sign.

Those kind of clients can fuck off, they either wait for the results as agreed upon beforehand, or they will simply lose the money they already poured into the project...

Not a lot. Just you.

when I first started on my own, those were nearly all my clients, as I work and work I deal with them less and less and now people ask nicely or even plead sometimes. JUST SAY NO!

How do you know? Which firms?

We've ran out of our PPP several months ago. We're still all employed. Winter will be slow, but I see a lot of potential for next Spring.

My understanding was that the PPP ran out everywhere around July. And there did seem to be quite a few layoffs at that point, but things seem to be more steady now, especially with what appears to be construction sites across the country all back to fully operational.

@Lululala, I just had two friends get laid off this week, both in separate states (CA, NYC). 

This might not be universally true but our leadership told us that any layoffs before Oct 1 would jeopardize the PPP loan forgiveness. I'm personally in a good place but I'm worried there might be a big cliff coming at the end of this week for a lot of companies.

You don't happen to work (have worked?) at S9 Architecture, did you?

I have colleagues who have worked there, but i have not worked there. why? who wants to know?

They just did the same thing to me, so I was curious if that was the office you were talking about. 2 month furlough and now it's a layoff. Heard my project came back, but they just staffed someone else on it. To anyone else who ever considers them: stay away.

Well I haven't heard good things about that place from colleagues, so I would agree on the stay away.

I actually applied to S9 a couple weeks ago because I saw a job opening there. I didn't hear back from them and am glad that I didn't hear back. lol I've been looking for a job since August and it's been tough even to go beyond phone screen calls for interviews. I am thinking about going for PMP certification even though I just got my arch license. 

Sounds like a lot of the firms in NYC are rather 'terrible'.

funny that their "hr" went and responded to every post. looks petty.

Its not bad. Look at SBLM glassdoor review and their HR response. Interviews section too. It made me laugh. Close to borderline cursing from HR.

Anyway, good or bad is a relative thing in my opinion. Some firm may be really bad and exploitative for junior, but nice for senior position. Some are just bad teams, not the entire firm. So one should not blindly believe those. Of course, there are some that is actually bad. Mostly small in size I would say. A firm can't grow much if it is really that bad.

The reviews of S9 are a fun read!

SBLM, another classic. I feel better about my day.

I only saw two bad reviews of S9 on Glassdoor. The rest where 4-5 stars.

Glassdoor has no mechanism to prevent a firm's management from posing as rank-and-file employees and posting fake glowing reviews. Some firms will also direct their staff to go on Glassdoor and write a batch of good reviews in order to offset however many bad ones there are.

There will still be tons of people trying to get into S9 architecture. Many senior one will leave soon after they got treated bad probably. Junior will endure the heat for a few years because you know why. It is just the nature of the field. The review thinks doing those developer box is bad? Try doing roof replacements and small renovation jobs. Those Developer box looks fantastic to me. At least you learn how a ground up building is made.

Your guess is correct. Glassdoor reviews that identify persons by name are a violation of that site's rules and those reviews get removed in their entirety.  If you stick to describing people as "principal"  "project managers", etc. your review will be accepted, even if you are posting a negative review.

Reads like a intern level posting. Doesn't meant that there isn't much truth to it, but I suspect that the author has a lot to learn about navigating jerks and large egos.

I live in nyc and know a friend working in detroit. Salary is higher though not significantly. I'd also say it depends on the firm. The worst job I've had was in SF.

How so? I worked at numerous firms there

A good old boys club where racism and sexism ran rampant. It could have been in nyc, detroit, frankly anywhere USA. I am saying that you can't generalize a whole location like all firms in the east coast are full of assholes.

I agree, I was responding to the salary portion. I have 10ish years of exp and make a little over 80k, but cost of living is much lower here than NYC. Just checked CNN's cost of living calculator and 80k here is equal to 200k in NYC!  The inverse is 80k in NYC equals 30k in Detroit.  These are scary numbers if anywhere close to accurate!

Can't speak for everyone but with about that level of experience I'd say about 100k here. I don't feel your living calculator is accurate. If you're reasonable about your spending and saving, you can live comfortably. No, I do not have a flat screen TV in every room nor do I have an enormous suburban home with multiple cars, but I do own my home in Manhattan. Even after Covid I like living here and will not be leaving any time soon. To each their own.

It was a jolt for me to go back to working full time in the office instead of little three hours chunks throughout the day. Still was doing 40 hours a week but it was nice to take little breaks every few hours.

I'm still WFH for the foreseeable future, so not entirely back to normal. But other than the commute I'm trying to get back into my old morning routine... instead of lazing about until 9 or 10 & then plowing through some RFIs before my 2pm nap. Tough life, I know.

yesterday was my first day back at the office in 6 months. commute to work? sit at my desk for literally 8 hours? drive home? Ouch! jolt indeed.....

Why would the leadership lay themselves off? Is that your criticism?

I suppose my argument is that some should retire or be bought out.

There is nothing wrong with top heavy if it is expertise or experience based firm as long as you get fancy projects with enough extra fees to support the principals' high bill rate. If you are efficiency based firm doing simple repetitive projects, then the high bill rate will eat through the fees real fast and cause short budget hours. And remember. in architecture, the more experience the better. No one will force retirement.

"I'm starting to think it is unsustainably top-heavy."

Correct, comrade. Correct.

You're bound to get a lot of boot-licking replies justifying why your mega-corporate experience is somehow okay.  It's not, and your intuition is correct.  Just ask yourself this question:  If the remaining non-presidents of your firm stopped working tomorrow, how much work would get done?

There's your answer.

"How much work would get done?" isn't the question. "How much new work would come in?" is. Doing work is an expense. Bringing in work keeps the lights on. Your VPs aren't drafting because they're out signing new clients (Well, they're supposed to be). Get rid of that and your runway suddenly gets much shorter.

That said if the answer to "How much new work would come in?" is "About the same" then, yeah your firm might be top-heavy.

How much work you reckon would come in if those top-heavy VP's didn't have a labor pool beneath them to PRODUCE the work that is billed? Without labor, capital is nothing. You think those VP's can draft or produce a revit model and working drawings? Not very likely. Those VP's "sell" the labor of their employees. Without the employees, they have nothing to sell.

tduds wrote: 

“. . . Doing work is an expense . . .” 

 Are you saying that staff are an expense of running a firm?

You guys need to go read or reread the Architect's handbook for professional practice. I am at the peak right now with my ARE study. You know those VPs may or may not be a marketing guy pulling in clients and job. Other than proposals, they could be doing firm management, project management & finances. They could be managing important clients or projects critical to the firm. They could be doing design decisions and drawing reviews of innovative projects. I bet out of the 29, some are not even doing architecture and many are just good project managers got promoted while still doing similar stuff. The key to whether it is healthy depends on the project the firm gets. The only difference is the billing rate being higher than junior. But can a bunch of juniors work on innovative projects? You only need a few juniors for drafting and Revit modeling. It takes real experience to do innovative design and detailing with no standards/catalogs to follow.

And you need to go read volumes 1-3 of Das Kapital

Start bringin' in clients, newguy.

"Without the employees, they have nothing to sell." 

Good thing they still have about ~90 employees to cover the work they sold.

Correct. They now have ~90 employees to produce the work of ~120 people so that the 29 VP's don't have to take a haircut.  Hence OP's very legitimate frustration with management.

the mega-sized firms aren't that majority of firms in the us (that should be in your ARE study guides.) and though there is an initial period during which the boss needs to be working to generate new clients (in the typical small-sized office), in many cases, they reach that critical juncture where work essentially comes to them based on reputation alone. once that happens, new guy is 100% correct- boss now gets to run around lecturing and wining and dining on the backs of the work the staff generates.

sure, the boss deserves credit for that initial development of the firm, but after a certain period the staff is really generating the bulk of the value. the meidner model would do a lot to make fairly owned workplaces (specifically the employee fund that transition into eventual co-ownership based on increasing shares over time): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Funny how those very important rain-making client catchers aren't the ones to go when they stop bringing in clients (you know, the thing they ostensibly are so good at). If we are to believe that this is their primary skillset (which we absolutely should reject), then logic would dictate that they would be made redundant when the clients stop coming in. But no, it's the labor pool beneath them that must suffer the consequences.

well, we survived the last 6 months unscathed and have a very positive outlook for the next 6 months. No staff cuts or layoffs necessary and we even covered 100% of salaries even if the staff was unable to commit to a full work day/week while WFH. Profit shares were even handed out as expected mid-june. While we're not a 100 person office, we could still be considered top heavy with a 1/3 to 2/3 management to staff ratio.

profit sharing is a great policy towards employer/employee equity. probably lands somewhere in the middle of this conversation.

^square, perhaps it's important, but in my case % shares are only for those in the management 1/3 section.

yeah, that's why in my mind profit share should be the minimum, though it's not standard here by any means. it's a great way to signal that employees have some stake in the game.

on the other hand, i would love to see all employees have shares. they could certainly be scaled towards responsibility/hierarchy (smaller # at the bottom or based on years of employment), or could be collectivized, but something to that gives employees some sense of ownership of all the work they produce.

wishful thinking though..

My current firm is employee owned (not 100% shareholders, but a large majority) & it's the primary reason I applied here. I'd love to see more companies open up to employee ownership, but that's because I'm a dirty socialist.

jealous.. i would love to try to convince our leader towards this (especially because these days they are barely involved in projects), but the extent that we practice any democratic principles ends outside the projects. everyone is nice though, so we have that going for us.

I have noticed that when a "rainmaker" does get let go it's pretty much a end of career scenario. They dont have recent skills with actually running work and the reason they got let go is becuase they probably werent making it rain anymore. I've always been very leery of that route.

29/150 at VP level is a lot. That's approaching a level where you'd say it's just employee owned.m :D BUT you haven't said anything about their compensation structure. In 2009 my office had 3 partners / 60 staff. we all got salary cuts, but for the partners they were paid nothing those 2 years. The majority partner actually put his own money back in. In bigger offices it's common for VP's to have a salary only a bit higher than senior staff, with 50-100% of salary in variable annual bonuses which go to 0 in bad years.

newguy, your comment that the VPs "aren't the ones to go when they stop bringing in clients" is more accurately what I'm frustrated about. The majority of the VPs are big picture project managers / "rainmakers", very few directly participate in labor - this is why I feel that my firm's structure (especially now) is
disproportionate.

square., tduds, I'm eligible for profit sharing once I've been at my firm for 6 years, so I do have that to be thankful for. I have no clue as to how much money it typically is though.

midlander, you might be right. All I've heard about compensation is that VP bonuses are ~20x an untitled staff's bonus. They're very secretive about pay structure, and supposedly "adhere to the AIA salary ranges" - you can guess how accurate that is.

You'll see this differently when you're promoted to VP, which it sounds like you're on track to be (if you survived the lay offs [congratulations on that btw [[if one can even congratulate anyone in this circumstance [[[triple bracket for sentence Inception]]] ]] ] ). Those VPs have the faith of the firm's leadership. The firm's leadership is showing loyalty to them. If your firm has that many VPs, it just means the definition of a VP is a little looser there than it is in other firms. I would expect that many "associate partners" and fewer VPs, but that's all just nomenclature. The point is there is a core of employees that the firm is more committed to than they are to younger or less crucial staff. I really don't think this is very controversial, especially in an industry so exposed to the rise and fall of the economy.

the election will be a catalyst that sets off something else that will happen in the couple months following.   may the odds be ever in your favor.

the election is in 3 weeks? dang... I need to pay more attention.

There may be some stock market spasms that might affect the willingness of the wealthy to open their wallets for home renovations, 2nd homes etc. Otherwise, I don't think so. The real effects will be later in 2021 if the election winners are able to enact any meaningful policies. Covid is here until 3rd quarter of 2021.

Yes, she should look now. Myself and some friends on the building materials side are not seeing a good outlook for non-residential in 2021 at the moment.

Yep I agree. Furlough will eventually lead to layoff. She should get on updating her resume and portfolio right now!

There are lots of issues with supply from Canada right now. There was a CO for expediting panels on one of my jobs.

Hey, stop stealing our wood (gigiti). We need it all for hockey sticks.

all your wood are belong to us

+1 for the gigiti

What kind of interior wall? If it is 3 layer CLT panel with optional gyp board. I am not surprised it cost 300K more than metal stud COVID or not. I like the exposed CLT panel partition wall, exposed wood on both sides. You do need architectural grade though if it is exposed. Only concern is low STC rating. If it is concealed, then I would go with cheaper option.

Sorry I should have specified - stick framed interior partitions. Structure is laminated wood beams I believe, with CLT floors.

oh 2x4 sticks. Big NO NO. That sure defeats the CLT characteristic. The whole point of using CLT is half sustainability, half exposed wood texture. is the exterior wall exposed CLT on the inside face? At least tell me the ceiling of CLT floor is exposed. Wood exterior wall and ceiling with white partition wall is still a good combo in terms of aesthetic.

Jay, you know what else defeats the point of CLT? Not being able to build the project because it costs too much.

Its 60M. I am sure they can squeeze it out of some where. I would rather sacrifice the square footage for it. And you save money on ceilings and wall panels etc. Well, to each of their own. As far as CLT glulam structure vs Steel or concrete cost, I have no idea. I can only dream to do a full CLT building. I also learned money is relative. A typical boxy NYC public school of steel and metal stud I worked on cost $1000/sf by professional estimator. I still don't get how.

Did you think about asking?

office, retail, multi-family, or industrial? or fifth option i didn't think of?

Industrial & Healthcare (surprisingly).

amazon is doing great, so that might help with industrial. we have some healthcare moving forward as well.

I was just reading an article about our local construction industry, and oddly enough Industrial is the only sector (vs commercial, etc) where permit applications are up over last year.

The fact that our completely incompetent govt let in that other strain is mind boggling. We all should have a tax boycott

We have avoided layoffs to date, but low performing staff who haven't adjusted well to having their supervisors off-site are proving to be a real drag on our finances. Hopeful that the second round of PPP may help us with this.   I have learned recently that a lot of commercial firms around us have cut people to 3 and 4 day work weeks.  On the other hand, the residential design crowd is booming.

I think residential contractors, and by extension residential designers, have never been busier. My local Rona LITERALLY has zero 2x4s. And yet we're surrounded by boreal forest for 2000km in every direction. Messed up.

BB
Isn't the issue the reduction of supply though? That was what I understood with the wood industry right now. 

NM I've heard that but haven't looked into it. Could be the case but again, all that's needed would be to hire more people to ramp up production. But instead, since they've figured out that people are willing to pay 3x what they used to, why change now? A sheet of OSB is now over $30 here, if you can find it. Last year it was $11, and the rear before that it was like $8.

i think a bunch of the mills shut down because they weren't safe enough to allow distancing or to provide a safe environment for their workers. they should have that sorted out by now. also demand went up because both singe family and multifamily seem to get a bump, along with a lot of renovation work. looks like it it hit a high in september, but started creeping up again in november. it would suck to be the contractor. you can't plan around this level of crazy. https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/lumber

BB
Seen some suggestions from lumber yards that it's both. A reduction of supply and an increase in demand. 

Also saw an interesting article about Freres, who I know based on their mass plywood product... but anyway, interesting insight into business issues on the manufacturer side. 

https://www.statesmanjournal.c...

A big chunk of the residential around us is small buildings in rear yards as well. That and kitchen/bath remodels. The only people that an do them profitably are solo people with no office expense.

“Firm” not “find”

Haven't heard anything in Chicago. One of the other big firms had a pretty large layoff a few weeks ago, but hiring also appears to be picking back up with several firms. Still kind of hit or miss. Some are busier than ever, some picking up, some treading water.

I've been hearing the same (regarding Gensler).

Things appear very uneven in my community. Lots of people have cut staff hours, but there's also more people advertising for staff than I have seen in many years. Healthcare and single family sectors seem to be doing well. For me, PPP has allowed us to avoid layoffs to date, but we will be taking a close look at hours/pay reductions or outright layoffs of weak performers in the next few months.

And to get one other comment in - I couldn't help but notice that postings on Archinect seemed to be consistently coming up throughout the last year...

To the BGH in the sky, would there be any interest in Archinect posting a historical look at the data from the last year of the number of job postings and compare it to the previous year or two? My view from the ground is that there were obviously many rounds of layoffs, but it genuinely did seem like the job board here was very robust throughout the last 12 months.

We're hiring for two new positions, as of last week. We've been fortunate in that 2020 was our busiest year ever, both in terms of number of projects and revenue. A decent portion of our work is in health care so that has helped.

It looks like people with strong qualifications and proven past performance can get jobs. I have certainly lost interest in taking chances on candidates with iffy backgrounds and gaps in their skillset. WFH really exacerbates the challenges of trying to get projects produced with noobs and underperformers. I don't see a lot of growth in employee headcounts this year, but rather a shift to fill the existing positions with the best performing people you can find.

thisisnotmyname, I agree completely. As a result, we've increased our typical new hire salary to accommodate finding those with more / better experience, rather than taking on more junior staff. Training (or rather, on the job learning) is supremely difficult while WFH and I don't want the headache.

We're looking for a PA, Interior Designer, and a PM.

BB / TINMN - any chance you care to expand on that..? I mean it seems obvious that any good employee would be able to run with a variety of tasks from a good background of past performance and achievements, but what are things that you like to see in prospectgive hires prior to actually bringing them on...? I am always curious to know insights from any hiring managers on what it is they actually want...

Bench - a piece looking back at the demand for talent in the last 12 months, through the perspective of Archinect Jobs, is a great idea. We have the most popular job board for the industry, so this would provide a quite accurate reflection on how the pandemic affected employment in the industry. One thing we can say for sure, there was quite a massive drop in job listings last year, especially in the early months of the pandemic. Things are starting to look up in 2021.

Great to hear. Judging from the activity that wasn't what I would have guessed, although given the circumstances that makes sense. I look forward to the analysis (hopefully) making it to the site soon!

Code, I would not consider you iffy. For us, iffy is usually weird gaps in employment history or outsize "side hustles" that raise questions about how much the candidate is focused on architecture at all.

I'm glad you landed on your feet.