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COVID-19 Lay-off Thread

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shellarchitect

Got a very ominous email from the boss man today.  We shall see what the next few weeks bring.

Mar 26, 20 2:03 pm  · 
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ShakeyDeal

Just announced company wide furlough.

Mid-size Landscape firm in NorCal.

Mar 26, 20 3:28 pm  · 
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Non Sequitur

Shitty deal. Sorry to hear that.

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sameolddoctor

Furlough as in time and pay cuts?

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ShakeyDeal

32 hour work week

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sameolddoctor

oh yes, we been on that deal for 2 weeks now here in SoCal. Sucks.

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CodesareFUN

I’ve heard of more pay cuts at multiple firms in the Chicago area this week. Some varying depending on your title, others flat cuts. 

Mar 26, 20 4:32 pm  · 
 · 

Chicagoan here, have not heard much of this as of yet. What size firms?

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CodesareFUN

100+ mainly at the moment, haven’t heard any of the smaller ones doing similar yet.

 · 

I was doing the plan check corrections and was just about the get the drawings approved by the LADBS for a small ground up hillside house, but the client terminated the project. I can't blame them either. The future is very uncertain at the moment. I am sad because it was gem of a house, but hey, people are fighting for their livelihood.
Good thing I am one person show and have a teaching job for the foreseeable future.
My sympathies for all my architecture colleagues here and elsewhere. Stay healthy and never lose your love for architecture!

Mar 26, 20 5:21 pm  · 
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purplethanos

This downturn will only last as long as the virus keeps people from working.  Its wasn't a market based crash, it was because the economy is physically frozen since many people physically can't work.  The virus wont kill as many people as the news will lead you to believe, and the downturn wont be as bad as people think, this extreme market drop will be followed by just as extreme of a recovery once things start running  back to normal.  If it were a pop in a housing/real estate valuations, architects would be screwed, like they were in the GFC, but this isn't the case.  Just hold on tight, ride the wave.  Its gonna come and then go and people will forget it was even a thing.

Mar 26, 20 6:25 pm  · 
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shellarchitect

I'll inclined to agree. The only caveat is i think we will be subject to endless debate over the response and who is at fault until November. Markets abhor uncertainty, which we won't have for awhile

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revolutionary poet

on the upside, although the bank wouldn't give me more money to keep my firm up and running they are not asking me to pay for 30 days...I'm in a FEMA crisis zone.

Mar 26, 20 7:41 pm  · 
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thisisnotmyname

I am really hoping the small business loans in the stimulus package will address people's cash flow issues. The regular SBA disaster loans available today don't appear to be something my firm would immediately qualify for or receive in a timely manner.

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Doc Arch

The NYC Department of Design and Construction has halted all projects: Design though Construction Administration. This is HUGE for NYC architects..

Mar 26, 20 8:57 pm  · 
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revolutionary poet

to be clear those are city contracts. not private business contracts.

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Doc Arch

of course. For my office it is HUGE

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curtkram

why would they stop design?

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thisisnotmyname

either or both of these: a) make sure firms are truly on lockdown and associated business activity is minimized and b) to save money on design fees because of tax revenue losses and costs of crisis response.

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archi_dude

Wait business activity has to stop even if you are working at home? Whaaaat?

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thisisnotmyname

Even in full WFH mode, you are probably still causing some number of trips by delivery people, etc. I had to go out to mail hard copies of a contract and we are continue to have product submittals and samples coming and going.

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sp429

Does this include DPR projects?

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archi_dude's comment has been hidden
archi_dude

So with falling case numbers why did Washington get even stricter and stop construction? Not sure how much logic is forcing this decisions besides complete hysteria. Supposedly the reason you cant go surfing in California is becuase some one might drool in the water....I can guarantee I'm not going to get sick from someone's spit in the ocean sitting 40' from me



Mar 27, 20 11:56 am  · 
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SneakyPete

The parking lots and the shoulders and the people shitting in the bushes because the toilets are locked is a problem.

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Bench

The surfing would have more to do with eliminating the possibility of unnecessary search and rescue operations happening during the crisis. Not actual transmission.

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archi_dude

Oh you mean like the multiple helicopter flybys they are doing and lifeguard patrols to make sure no ones in the hidden coves right now vs. the 1 search and rescue that happens a year?

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tduds

Pro-tip: Trust epidemiologists' expertise as much as you wish your clients trusted yours.

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SneakyPete

I trust the experts until they FUCK WITH MY PASSIONS. (Not really, I'm currently really pissed off at all of the irresponsible fuckwads overwhelming the climbing areas)

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archi_dude

Epidemiologists want to completely squash this at all costs necessary. Most architects want to make every cafe the Taj Mahal. I'm pointing out scenarios that seem as though we are being driven by hysteria and not a well rounded discussion with all stakeholders. Original question is why are they moving to shut down construction at great economic and individual pain when cases are slowing in Washington. Surfing was just an example. Close parking lots to reduce crowds, totally get it. Utilizing mass police, air support and lifeguard boat resources to patrol every inch of Sam Diego coastline even while the CDC says there is no evidence of transmission in water...crazy.

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SneakyPete

hysteria? In the age of Trump? Who would have ever seen this coming?

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tduds

What's the ideal number of people who will be allowed to die so the construction industry can remain open?

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tduds

"The dam is working, time to tear it down" is essentially what you're saying.

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archi_dude

The numbers show the damn was working before construction is halted. Washington and Itally closed construction this week. Both were experiencing case reductions. My argument is actually the dam is working, why do you need to build it higher and drown more communities in the event of a 1000 yr flood?

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newbie.Phronesis

Because they want to completely halt the spread? US overall has more cases than China now, and considering don't have great healthcare... >.>

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SneakyPete

*waits for the per capita rebuttal*

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archi_dude

What's the ideal type of economic collapse we are willing to suffer in order to halt the spread, thought we were just flattening the curve btw. Puerto Rico, Greece, Venezuela or full on Nigeria? Does that work Sneaky?

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SneakyPete

Not sure why you singled me out. I'm leaving the policy making to the experts. Armchair discussions are all well and good, but when someone like Donald J. Trump tells me it's safe, I tell him the same thing I tell a guy at the bar giving me life advice.

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proto

the numbers don't show the dam is working -- the numbers are unfortunately an empty statistic until testing is more widely spread

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RickB-Astoria

Guys, we are about a month or two or so behind China in the epidemic. We aren't going to get it under control that much faster than China which still isn't completely under control but they have still new cases but at a lower rate which is what they want. If new cases are happening, it is not a "all clear to return to normal". We don't have a vaccine. We have drugs that can aid in the process of healing and maybe save lives but that's not necessarily a vaccine like that for polio. That doesn't exist ANYWHERE on the planet. 

Until we have that, it isn't going to be back to normal completely. We are not going to completely return to the norms before the COVID outbreak for at least 12 months and maybe longer. We may find a stopgap drug that will help between now and a vaccine but vaccines can take over a decade to find if you use past precedence as a clue. The reality is that there are more people in total with the virus than have been confirmed. Our country's lack of free health care is part of why people haven't been tested because they don't want the ridiculously overpriced bill for even a 5 minute visit.

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RickB-Astoria

Given China is more familiar with this issue then the U.S. lets look at China. They are a comparably advance country as we are. If it isn't "all is clear" for China, then it shouldn't even be close to that in the U.S. when we are behind China in the epidemic by about a month or so. There is still the rest of the planet and if we open up travel between countries, out problem will get worse and cases rise again. Here's why? If we return things back to normal, then we will be back into this situation because someone infected by the virus in another country (just like how it happened in the first place), will go around like it's nothing because they don't have the symptoms and then we get right back into an uncontrolled pandemic. How does this effect you? You work with clients. Your clients works with people who may be travelling around the world even if you are not. You get contaminated by the virus and infect others because you now have the virus. That could be just going to a starbucks to get a cup of coffee. You just transmitted the virus. They go to other places like stores and wow.... it spreads again. Then what did we solve? Nothing. Why construction stops? Indirectly, it may be because there would not be inspection services happening or they are short staffed and not just state level but local levels are factored in. They may want to keep things manageable with across the board reduction of staff and a lot more in the stay at home setting. Does some jackass homeowner's deck or accessory structure for a workshop that important or essential or can they be delayed 6 months or a year with the permit being administratively extended?

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CodesareFUN

Balkins is Dr. Fauci? Dude get off Archinect!

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midlander

when a fire is 60% contained, do you say the firefighting effort is working and send the fire department home to minimize further water damage?

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archi_dude

Nope, read dam response. But also you'd definitely reduce resources and divide and conquer if you noticed the fire was spreading to another critical location that needed help.

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SneakyPete

dude, is the fire coronavirus or the economic downturn?

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x-jla

Said from the beginning, we need a total 30 day national lockdown. All bills and everything should be frozen. That would make this much faster to get over.

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x-jla

And less painful for businesses

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archi_dude

What happens after Jlax? when you open back up and you still have no immunity in the population but spread still happening around the world?

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Hi all..It has been too long since I actually posted something here in the Forum! Anywho, anecdotally...my wife and the other "newest" employee (both yr-ish +) at their small (8-10 person) design firm, got let go in last 24hrs. As I understand it everyone else is taking a reduction in hours and work is shifting. On the other-hand, there have been postings on the Jobs boards this month by some local/regional firms, so who knows?! One bright spot, they are paying out sick/vacation days and its on good terms/not personal.

Mar 27, 20 7:39 pm  · 
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Sorry to read this Nam. Hope she finds something quickly.

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Thanks EA!

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poop876

None of our projects are on hold as of yet! Been keeping everyone busy and will probably bring some people on board! It's scary as fuck though. I told my accountant to bill everything asap and hope we get paid. 

Mar 27, 20 7:54 pm  · 
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revolutionary poet

https://www.sba.gov/funding-pr...

my understanding is if you keep people on it's a grant, if not it's a loan, looking into it. 

but government moves slower than private business so not sure the alignment happens here. i.e. keeping on people with cash funds while applying for loans.


Mar 28, 20 11:18 am  · 
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Caliado

I've been working as much as I can around university and mostly that's dried up now (I was mostly doing photography and surveying work as it was easy to fit round uni work but its pretty hard to do during a pandemic) after I...work out how to afford rent and food for the rest of this degree though I'm mostly worried about what on earth I should do post-graduation. 

Graduating MArch in the UK and presumably not going to get a job in the industry any time soon. Once I'm not working on final portfolios, dissertations and such I can do something that will at least earn money, ideally something relevant but idk what. If not will be something like supermarket work and I should probably use the time to learn something useful outside of that (get better at revit maybe?)

I'm in London and the property market is weird here now, is it the same elsewhere? sales of housing has practically halted, rents are down and airbnb places are being put onto the regular rental market. I don't know if it'll have a lasting effect or n effect on architecture profession but its some weird stuff

Mar 28, 20 2:27 pm  · 
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shellarchitect

A little less then half our production staff was laid off Friday (5 of 12)

Mar 28, 20 2:36 pm  · 
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BenneyHarvey

Yay, I'm graduating with a BS Arch this semester! It's getting real tired to feel so absurdly hopeless and vulnerable. I should get used to it.

Lost a few CAD interviews in construction because of the virus. I know I won't get architecture interviews. But if I want some roof over my head, I can go flip burgers and pray someone will make me a CAD jockey. Woo, 5 years of school and mental degradation for the glorious right to beg for CAD work. Tbf, I like CAD, but the emotional stress of it all has been...so much. Too much.

Should I...even bother with the built environment? Damn I love it, damn I'd like to become a builder, but at this rate, why should the younger guys even bother with dreaming buildings? 

I guess...I've settled knowing that architecture doesn't bring tangible value, and we have to convince others we have ANY value. But, I...haven't processed that yet. That architecture is an art, equally unstable and fueled by misery. And we're taught to treat it like a career.

Yeah, no, sorry, I'm just...tired of being vulnerable, but being unable to switch yet. Is hopelessness an architect's rite of passage? Does it ever get better?

Mar 29, 20 2:50 am  · 
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liberty bell

Daniel: I taught a Professional Practice course in 2009-10. Two years of facing my about-to-graduate students and saying “This is how practice works, but you’re graduating into an economy with zero job opportunities.” What I focused on was that this *is* a profession that follows the economy, but your schooling has given you a set of creative skills that *can* be applied to other fields, too. Ten years later a lot of those students are doing other things but most of them are architects - they weathered the recession in bartending while volunteering for non-profits related to the built world (networking), or they worked in construction, or they designed decks or basement remodels for their dad’s dentist’s sister, or lots of other things tangentially related to the “profession.”

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liberty bell

Which is all to say: YES it gets better, then it gets bad again, then it gets awesome, then it kicks you in the teeth again....but honestly what profession *doesn't* have those ups and downs? None.

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Bench

Donna - maybe that's a good request for a next Sessions podcast, about your experiences teaching during the recession and lessons learned from that time. I graduated smack into the worst depths of the recession (especially in Canada, where everything lagged a bit longer) and basically had to shuffle between jobs in some of the most geographically remote parts of the country. That was the only way to stay in the industry. I'd love to hear a podcast of your thoughts as we drop into what might be another one.

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Non Sequitur

Donna, to add some noise to the discussion (and I second Bench's podcast point), I had a prof-practice prof during my M.Arch (and another during undergrad) who echoed what you're saying. It definitively changed my understanding and expectations coming into the working world mid 09.

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anonla

Mid size firm in the Toronto area. Production staff layoffs and pay cuts across the board. Still expected to maintain full work week (40+ hrs) with the pay cut. As of right now, project work has only been minimally impacted.

Are other folks maintaining full time work with pay cuts as well? 

Mar 29, 20 2:02 pm  · 
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Non Sequitur

Time to find a better office.

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anonla

Yeah - I hear it's a really hot job market

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Dangermouse

Wow, that is absurd. If you can, tell them to fuck off. If not, my condolences. Any chance you can name and shame?

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OneLostArchitect

Does it start with a G?

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Bench

Why are there pay cuts if project work was minimally impacted?

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anonla

We haven't been given much reason yet other than COVID... and sorry, don't feel comfortable giving the name of the office

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bowling_ball

Yeah that's nonsense. Start looking elsewhere. Not every firm is in a downturn, believe it or not.

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Non Sequitur

Curious about office name too... we have contract and labour laws here that likely are getting trampled. Anonla, what's the office's main area of work ?

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UltraViolet88

Same situation and city - hospitality focused.

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George Gibson's comment has been hidden

Thanks for starting this new thread.

Mar 29, 20 2:09 pm  · 
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sameolddoctor
Half of the staff at medium office here in LA asked to take PTO for this week, in addition to 20% pay and hours cut. Sucks.
Still believe this is not because of China and their delayed response to the crisis created by their wet markets?
Mar 30, 20 12:24 am  · 
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liberty bell
Stop being racist, same old. Please.
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revolutionary poet's comment has been hidden
revolutionary poet

they mean Communist China, there fixed it.

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This article gives a reasonable timeline of events. I first heard about the novel coronavirus - before the term COVID-19 had even been coined to name the illness - in the middle of January. The science podcast I listen to religiously, Skeptics Guide to the Universe, first reported on it 25 January, and I had heard of it previous to that (I remember looking forward to hearing what the skeptics would report). The first US case of it was reported 20 January. *Anyone who was paying attention* knew that there were serious risks by 1 February, and what did our country do to prepare during the month of February? Next to nothing. It's not China's fault that we are totally unprepared, it's ours. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-pandemic-timeline-history-major-events-2020-3

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revolutionary poet

again not China /\, Communist China. They shut the first whistle blower up, couldn't contain the virus, and caused a pandemic. Blame the communists is fair and not racist.

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wynne1architect@gmail.com's comment has been hidden
wynne1architect@gmail.com

Ugh!  With the claim of racism, any constructive conversation stops.

Mar 30, 20 10:53 am  · 
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Chad Miller

Only if you're a racist cunt.

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Yep.

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OneLostArchitect's comment has been hidden
OneLostArchitect

What are we going to call Chinese food if that is considered racist now? 

Mar 30, 20 11:17 am  · 
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Non Sequitur

delicious

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gibbost

To my knowledge, Chinese take-out has never lead to groups of people being beaten, spat on, yelled at, or insulted. Fear and anxiety can naturally lead to blaming others. In this case, assigning blame will not lead to our survival. In fact, science has proven that our immune systems are enhanced by compassion and community--and damaged by contempt.

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Exactly, gibbost. One Lost, please stop being intentionally obtuse.

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Volunteer

If the Chinese people called it the 'Wuhan virus' they would be silenced and likely hauled away. That pretty much tells you all you need to know about the Chinese government. Perhaps we should call it the 'Chinese Communist Party' virus ?

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SneakyPete

keep talking, it's good to know who the bigots are, no matter the stripe or degree

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OneLostArchitect

I never called it the Chinese Virus here folks... I'm simply asking the question... what do we call Chinese food now?

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Bench

I mean, if you're in China you'd probably just call it "food" ...

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tduds

Questions don't get to exist in a vacuum just because you're on the wrong side of the obvious context.

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tduds

Also, since people seem to have a lot more downtime lately, here's a great book that covers a lot of the institutional racism that birthed and influenced "Chinese Food" in the US. https://www.amazon.com/Chop-Suey-Cultural-History-Chinese/dp/0195331079

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b3tadine[sutures]

The adjective obtuse is good for describing someone slow on the uptake: "Don't be so obtuse: get with the program!" The adjective obtuse literally means "rounded" or "blunt," but when it's used for a person, it means "not quick or alert in perception" — in other words, not the sharpest tool in the shed.

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x-jla's comment has been hidden
x-jla

how’s everyone liking their 30 day free trial of socialism?

Mar 30, 20 1:51 pm  · 
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Non Sequitur

business as usual here, but at home instead. I am drinking about twice as much coffee... 5th, 6th cup? I guess I should stop making full pots when I don't have coworkers present to help with the consumption.

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atelier nobody

I wish I still had dogs.

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Non Sequitur

Did you eat them? I can't be that bad.

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atelier nobody

I had to let them go after "the incident".

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tduds

Still feels extremely capitalist, so far. Not sure what you're on about.

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Chad Miller

jla-x learn the definitions of socialism and democratic socialism. Until then shut the fuck up you moron.

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tduds

Everything I Don't Like is Socialist - Album on Imgur.

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OneLostArchitect

Justin Turdo is promising me money!!! GIVE ME MY MONEY!!!

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Non Sequitur

it'll come.

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b3tadine[sutures]

Gee, I was thinking this was kleptocratic-libertarianism.

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x-jla

No silly. This is what Democratic socialism under a shitty democratically elected regime/s feels like. Lol.

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x-jla

But for real, cash those 1200$ checks and see how long the government can support us without private industry running.

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JLC-1

HAH! so printing 2 trillion dollars to save the sorry asses of badly managed corporations and their fat ceo's is not socialism? I knew there was a reason I had ignored you for so long.

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tduds

Socialism is the labor-owned means of production.

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b3tadine[sutures]

jlax, when did you live in a DemSoc country, cause this ain't it; this is Post-Capitalism, Disaster Capitalism.

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x-jla

This is socialism commercial break disaster mitigation

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x-jla

Capitalism is the thing we are all missing rn.

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JLC-1

sure jan, it's easy to shift responsibility when things go bad, wouldn't hire you for a job ever.

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tduds

Nice to see we're still pretending "Capitalism" and "Socialism" are two mutually exclusive and opposite sides of a coin despite my attempts to point out the absolute absurdity of this way of thinking in basically every thread it's mentioned.

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revolutionary poet

qoutable "Nice to see we're still pretending "Capitalism" and "Socialism" are two mutually exclusive and opposite sides of a coin despite my attempts to point out the absolute absurdity of this way of thinking in basically every thread it's mentioned. "

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curtkram

how is capitalism a thing we're missing? people aren't going to work because the government shut down a lot of businesses to slow the spread of this virus. if the government didn't do that, more people would be getting sick. as it is, i can get food from a bar and have it delivered to my house with no contact. how is that not capitalism?

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Volunteer's comment has been hidden
Volunteer

The last few entrys in this thread remind me of the Canadian member of the World Health Organization who hung up on a reporter who asked about Tiawan's response to the pandemic. Why? Because China considers Tiawan to be part of the Chinese mainland and nobody is allowed to piss off the Chinese leaders, apparently. 

"A senior advisor to the World Health Organization who had returned from China [Bruce Alyward] appared to hang up on a journalist who asked about Taiwan’s response to the coronavirus pandemic, and then did not answer further questions because they had “already talked about China”." 

Mar 30, 20 2:13 pm  · 
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Non Sequitur

you're reading too much into this. Loosen the tin foil hat a little.

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tduds

I actually agree with Volunteer here. The world is extremely touchy when it comes to Taiwan, for exactly the reasons described.

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x-jla

China and the WHO are buddies.

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tduds

^ Technically not wrong but oversimplified beyond the point of usefulness.

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Volunteer

"Taiwan’s government has said that keeping it out of the WHO during the outbreak amounts to playing politics with Taiwanese lives, even as the island has won plaudits for keeping its case toll so comparatively low thanks to early detection and control methods." Reuters

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molten

Company meeting just announced firm-wide meeting tomorrow....bracing for pay cuts. A couple of our large projects in CDs have gone on hold and ones that were supposed to start are also on hold.

Sigh. 

Mar 30, 20 3:43 pm  · 
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sameolddoctor's comment has been hidden
sameolddoctor
No one is blaming the Chinese race, it’s the Chinese government for allowing the wet markets to happen, and then covering them up intentionally.

It’s cute to see white people talk about racism, but yes I’m Asian too and saying it like it is. China (and not your neighborhood Chinese restaurant) should be held accountable. Let’s talk when you are out of your jobs
Mar 30, 20 4:17 pm  · 
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Archinect

This isn't cute, and you're naive to think that people aren't taking this out on the Chinese race. https://www.adl.org/blog/reports-of-anti-asian-assaults-harassment-and-hate-crimes-rise-as-coronavirus-spreads

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x-jla

So, can’t criticize the Chinese communist party because some assholes are being mean to Chinese people? That’s pretty ridiculous. I think the Chinese regime has gone under the radar for years for their terrible human rights abuses, authoritarianism, etc...all because we like cheap stuff. We Americans were complicit. Now, we see the consequences of their suppression of truth. How many journalists and doctors disappeared who were tying to get the truth out early on?

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x-jla

The people of China, and the Chinese people who live outside of China have absolutely nothing to do with what we are talking about. The Chinese authoritarian state is very secretive and oppressive. Their secretive nature likely is to blame for this thing getting out of control early on. They tried to hide it, and let people move around freely for at least a month before it became obvious.

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x-jla

And the markets are what they are. It’s not the first time a pandemic started in these conditions. Chinese culture is not to blame, but it certainly is responsible for it. Likewise, Italian culture is likely why deaths are so high. Not about right or wrong, from a moral standpoint, but definitely can say whether a cultural practice is dangerous or not.

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Archinect

Of course you can blame the Chinese government if that's how you want to spend your energy, you can do whatever you want. You can also be an idiot and remain blissfully ignorant that a lot of stupid racist people in this country use that criticism to fuel and justify their racist attacks.

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x-jla

I’m not going to curb the truth because some fat dummy from Alabama posts something racist on FB. That’s completely silly If someone is too stupid to differentiate between the Chinese state, and an everyday Chinese person living in California, then that’s their mental disease.

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Archinect

Keep up the brave work of pointing fingers.

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b3tadine[sutures]

The corruption of local party apparatchik caused a lot of this mess, it's generally understood that local party leaders are corrupt. Sound familiar? Additionally, what's been reported recently is negative impacts of Capitalism and its relationship to factory farming in China, as it directly impacts the poorest in China, and their ability to eat.

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tduds

"I’m not going to curb the truth because some fat dummy from Alabama posts something racist on FB." I'd have more confidence in this if your "truth" wasn't displaying a somewhat facile knowledge of Chinese government, politics, & history. The problem with painting with such a broad brush is that, in their generalization, these statements can give cover to more xenophobic and racist sentiment.

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tduds

Perhaps it's worth investing some of your recently mandated free time in a good book or two on China.

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metal

I agree. This is no time for political correctness. China actions have been questionable for years. Now the world knows.

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tduds

I've said it elsewhere and I'll say it again - the magnitude of this pandemic has laid bare the Achilles' Heel of authoritarianism - in both China and the US (and elswhere). Good news for the boss is rewarded, bad news for the boss is punished. The incentive, then, is to hide bad reality in favor of good fiction. This is how Mao's famine started, and it's how COVID got a foothold in China, and later the US.

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metal

And just look up how the WHO responded to questions regarding Taiwan, the number of urns for the dead, cell phone use compared to the number if deceased they are reporting. Thats a problem.

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revolutionary poet

in case you're looking to blame anyone, blame humans. when human's expand into former ecologies they start to mix with these ecologies and whence comes virus's that we were not familiar with prior.

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x-jla

B3, China has been benefiting from US capitalism and US has been benefiting from Chinese communism for years. It’s a relationship that allows us to outsource all the things we want to do but aren’t allowed to do.

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sameolddoctor

Wow, what a spirited discussion. Masters of Archinect, you really did gloss over the face that I am Asian too, didn't you? Other countries in Asia are also sick and tired of China's bulllshit authoritarian regime and the effect of their policies seeping over to their neighbors. I am also sure that most of the people defending China here on this forum have indeed never been there or do not intend to. (I have, several times)

Not sure why we need to be so PC about a country that has effectively indulged in bioterrorism and managed to spread it around with their inaction.

Again, this is not about Asian or Chinese people in general, but their GOVERNMENT. Speaking of which, not sure if any of you guys heard that some wildlife markets are back in full swing, as China wakes up from COVID-19. Regulation, my foot.

 · 
SneakyPete

Cool, you're Asian. That's neat. Doesn't inoculate you from accusations of ignorance and bigotry, though.

 · 
proto

any sole proprietors apply for unemployment? how'd it go? 

Mar 30, 20 4:28 pm  · 
 · 
RickB-Astoria

good question there.

 · 
revolutionary poet's comment has been hidden
revolutionary poet

This thread is like halfway social media dumbasses and halfway really smart people.  It's quite interesting.

Anyway, the governments has some SBA stuff (500 or less employees) that may help you keep staff on, it's a great deal and its slow, but if your firm has the cash reserve for 2 months+ operations they could keep everyone on at a very small loss, if at all if you have a great accountant.

Mar 30, 20 6:29 pm  · 
 · 

This post serves no practical purpose unless you're going to start naming people in each camp.

 · 
revolutionary poet

read paragraph 2, no need to get emotional ;) and I don't name people, this is the internet, it's not real.  even if you uses your real name.

 · 
liberty bell

Then use your real name chris you coward.

 · 
revolutionary poet

que? do you even read what write?

 · 
tduds

Dibs on being one of the smart ones.

 · 
revolutionary poet

yes tduds and you have clearly read the literature. Ms. Bella, back in the day on archinect you could make-up your name in a thread which was then somewhat contextual, that's how I view all this. this is the internet, its words, thoughts, characters, shit that flies together to make you think or not think (which appears to be the current trend).

 · 

I'm realizing now my reply probably came off as me being annoyed ... my bad. It was intended to be humorous with regard to paragraph 1. Dunning-Kruger would indicate that the majority probably thinks they're one of the smart ones.

 · 
revolutionary poet

tone, never quite expressed well on the internet either, which makes conversations interesting. There is a method on gauging intelligence among intelligent people though...

 · 
Non Sequitur

I don't smart enough to associate with smart ones. I guess i'm in the dumb camp. With that said, we're 2 weeks into our 3weeks "everyone still gets paid even if you can't work" experiment. I expect an update in a few days.

 · 
curtkram

everyone grab a 20 sided dice and roll. if you get above 15 you get to get to be one of the smart ones

 · 
liberty bell's comment has been hidden
liberty bell

Can we get back to lay-off/job security issues please? We got news today that construction unknowns mean that what had been a two-year phased project is now planned for four years (academic sector). Which means the same amount of work up front, but a longer payment timeline. 

Mar 30, 20 7:42 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

We've had a bunch of projects go on hold (as far as I know nothing out-right cancelled yet, just paused) but for now a majority of projects - including my own - are marching ahead.

Looking at some salary cuts and a freeze on any discretionary spending, but for the moment no layoffs (for the moment). Fingers crossed this is a shorter disruption than the last one.

Mar 30, 20 8:03 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Holds are almost entirely hospitality related.

 · 
dominiond

If you just got laid off, I am very, very sorry. I am in an East coast based 100 person firm- have had about 30% of our projects go on pause. Had a long meeting today going through "The List" which sucked and I cried afterward. Whole firm will have payroll reductions, we will furlough or lay off 10%-15% of staff on April 1.

In 2008, I was afraid for my job - I was only 2 years out of school  and cheap labor so made it through luckily, now I am in "management" and I see every name on that list as a person who is supporting a family or who is sending money home to help their folks and pay their school loans.

I also talk to my relatives and friends who work in healthcare as doctors, nurses, EMTs and we should ALL be worried about this virus. Please do everything you can to stay healthy, well and take care of each other-

Mar 30, 20 8:43 pm  · 
 · 
liberty bell

This is a good post, dominiond. Thank you for sharing how your perspective developed over the last 20 years. Hang in there.

 · 

We've apparently had a few clients reach out to "pause" their projects as well. Leaders were very intentional to indicate this is not on hold, and not cancelled. Hasn't really affected my work yet. 

I don't think anyone is getting laid off at my office yet. We've had a good first of the year so far so we might have a bit of a buffer before we really need to trim some fat. We are still submitting for RFPs and getting awarded work as recently as Friday. 

I think the biggest unknown for us is when we can get back to construction on those non-essential projects where it has been forced to stop by state government order. A lot of our in construction work is allowed to proceed though so staff has mostly been able to shuffle around to keep everyone busy and billable. 

Mar 30, 20 8:45 pm  · 
 · 
curtkram

what's the difference between "pause" and "on hold?"

 · 
revolutionary poet

I would assume "pause" means - we were in the middle of finishing this wtf versus "hold" - meaning we are low on funds and will rdirect soon.

 · 

They way I'm choosing to look at it, because there hasn't been any sort of definition offered by the leadership, is that a pause is a short-term temporary thing, while a hold might be longer-term. I'm pausing my netflix show to get a drink from the fridge, but I'm holding off on finishing that netflix series until I have more time to devote to it.

 · 
revolutionary poet

Any small firms start any SBA applications specifically the Paycheck Protection Program?

Mar 30, 20 9:14 pm  · 
 · 
thisisnotmyname

We were on a conference call today with an SBA director. They said the particular terms and application process for the paycheck protection program would be coming out later this week.

 · 
RickB-Astoria

In other words, give them some f---ing time. Today (monday) is the first business day since the Senate coronavirus bill was passed both houses of congress and signed by the POTUS on Friday.

 · 
dominiond

The beginning of the podcast gives a really good and accessible summary of the big picture points of how the CARES Act and Coronavirus Relief bill pertains to individuals and families (gig workers, 1099, how to borrow from your 401K, etc...) 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/broken-brain-with-dhru-purohit/id1381257272#episodeGuid=5e8126d56fb4790c2dea264a

Mar 31, 20 8:32 am  · 
 · 
revolutionary poet

thank you for this.

 · 
revolutionary poet

for NYC (as new market if you're not already in it)

DOB Guidance Document on Enforcement of Essential vs. Nonessential Construction.

Mar 31, 20 8:48 am  · 
 · 
ceelu

i currently work for a large, global firm with sizeable office in NYC. we all just found out that everyone is receiving pay cuts starting april 1st. layoffs haven't been announced but i'm almost certain that this is just the beginning.

good luck all.

Mar 31, 20 3:38 pm  · 
 · 
thisisnotmyname

I've decided to keep all of my firm's staff and roll the dice on the whole Payroll Protection Program thing.  We haven't had any jobs cancelled or paused yet, but only about 1/3 of the clients are bothering to pay their invoices within 30 days, but it's been that way since well before COVID-19. 

Apr 1, 20 12:01 am  · 
 · 
sameolddoctor

Good. I was just reviewing the terms of the PPP and they seem rather favorable. 2 months of payroll + 25%, most of which can be "forgiven". Sound like an awesome deal.

 · 
thisisnotmyname

I'm counting on the "forgiven" part, more business debt that has to somehow be paid back with interest on the other side of all this isn't going to be terribly helpful in the big picture.

 · 

My husband's business is doing the same, thisisnotmyname, and the non-profit I manage is as well.

 · 
proto

yeah, not really looking to add debt at this point, but the PPP could help us survive the covid-peak (I have zero billable atm & my partner has +/-40 hrs)

 · 

well, we've had 40% of our work go on "hold" - most of that being donor driven non-profit/private sector institutional work. none were in construction - all of our work underway is continuing. 2 layoffs. worst day of my work life. 

we are having to take a lot harder look at which trees we are shaking at the moment. i have heard of some developer work/rfp's continuing to move forward but as someone noted above, those type clients are going to have a lot more leverage in terms of pricing/payment right now.

(and yes, we know about the sba PPP programs - part of the issue is some of that work likely won't come back at all; some will come back next year; some might get started again this fall. a lot depends on how people's portfolio's look and how generous/bullish they're feeling. so, based on that, doing a short term bridge loan that can be forgiven might - in our case - buy a little time but not enough.)

Apr 1, 20 10:06 am  · 
 · 
sameolddoctor

As far as I have read, the PPP loan is to ensure that you keep your staff employed. Indeed, if one lays of staff after taking the loan, the loan cannot be forgiven. So, regardless of whether projects come back or not, would be wise (and kind) to take the loan and keep the staff around for if and when this turns around...

 · 

SBA will forgive loans if all employees are kept on the payroll for eight weeks and the money is used for payroll, rent, mortgage interest, or utilities. The Paycheck Protection Program will be available through June 30, 2020.

 · 

that's from the SBA website. in our case, the period of uncertainty is really closer to 6 months. 


 · 
thisisnotmyname

Exactly. The idea is to buy employers some time for the next 2 months and avoid layoffs right now. If nothing else, I can have staff people spend the 2 months calling our deadbeat sh*tbag clients every 4 hours to see when they are going to pay their delinquent invoices.

 · 

Gregory, I'm genuinely sorry you have to make some tough decisions not only affecting your business and livelihood, but those of your employees as well. I appreciate your candor and point of view as an employer on the forum. I'm also genuinely curious, if you care to elaborate, on why you wouldn't be able to keep your staff on for the next 8 weeks by taking the PPP loan and reassessing in 2 months' time? 

Also from the SBA website (emphasis mine), "The loan will be fully forgiven if the funds are used for payroll costs, interest on mortgages, rent, and utilities (due to likely high subscription, at least 75% of the forgiven amount must have been used for payroll). Loan payments will also be deferred for six months. No collateral or personal guarantees are required. Neither the government nor lenders will charge small businesses any fees."

 · 
thisisnotmyname

I just got an email from my city government saying PPP will cover "retaining current workers and rehiring laid off workers". That's good news if correct (everybody should always go directly to the SBA for definitive info on SBA programs).

Know also that SBA works strictly on a first-come, first-served basis.  Any consultant or whatnot that wants to charge you a fee to expedite your loan is a scammer...

 · 
sameolddoctor

Wrong, the SBA isnt first come, first serve. The application starts on April the 3rd, and should be done in the first few days, if only to avoid backlogs.

https://www.journalofaccountan...

 · 
thisisnotmyname

You are suggesting that the applications will not be processed in the order they are received by SBA? Please explain?

 · 

@everydayarchitect - we have looked. we don't believe we meet all the qualifications.

 · 
TED

A similar PPP programme was announced on 20 March in UK - Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme paying furlough staff 80% up to £2500 per month. Small business in hospitality can apply for £25,000 grant. Extended the UK programme to include self-employed on 26th. Also announced mortgage holiday for 3 months. 

US is really behind the ball supporting working people. I am so pleased I live in a country with the National Health System - 

So are we all hoping for a medicare to all approach to health care? 

While the US will pay for the 'test' if you take the test at an emergency room expect to pay $2k - and don't even think of the cost if you end up hospitalized in an ICU for 30 days or more. 

The pandemic demonstrates how fragile our systems are - sad days ahead.

Wimbledon just canceled! 

Apr 1, 20 11:04 am  · 
 · 
Volunteer's comment has been hidden
Volunteer

I am pleased you live in the UK also:

“Doctors across the frontlines are extremely concerned about the lack of personal protective equipment [PPE]. Many have told us they have tried to raise concerns through the proper channels but have been warned against taking these concerns further,” the president of the Doctors’ Association UK (DAUK), Dr Samantha Batt Rawden, told The Guardian.

“At this time when we desperately need every single doctor on the frontline, some have had their careers threatened, and at least two doctors have been sent home from work. This is unacceptable. Doctors have a moral duty to make their concerns regarding Covid-19 public if these cannot be resolved locally,” Rawden went on to say.

According to the DAUK, one doctor who raised concern about the lack of medical masks was told by hospital management that: “If we hear of these concerns going outside these four walls your career and your position here will be untenable.”

 · 
TED's comment has been hidden
TED

And this is different to the US??? 

 · 
square.'s comment has been hidden
square.

volunteer is only selecting negative information (what country isn't short on medical supplies??), conveniently ignoring the fact that as you mentioned your ER covid test will cost you a cool 2k.. but luckily we can all use our one time stimulus money to cover 60% of the cost! no one can claim the US has done anything other than a bare minimum, patchwork response to this disaster. but we shouldn't expect anything less... rugged individualism is our way of life

 · 
midlander's comment has been hidden
midlander

it's what everyone does right? no one is good at being open and honest when the news is bad https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-31/hospitals-tell-doctors-they-ll-be-fired-if-they-talk-to-press

 · 
Non Sequitur's comment has been hidden
Non Sequitur

This must be one of Volunteer's sources.  

 · 
TED's comment has been hidden
TED

I get my NHS and my US Stimulus Check signed by Trump is in the mail - 

 UKs response was slow to start and admittedly the Tories (Conservatives) have put in austerity measures for 10+ years resulting in big shortages in nurse/doctors. 

2 weeks ago NHS wrote and texted 1.5 Million venerable people ordering them to shelter in place for 12 weeks - can not go outside. All UK has a stay at home order so this 'sheltering' is a higher level. This is supported by a network of community support(750,00 people signed up) delivering food and medicine with the UK government delivering weekly food/care packages to home. The list of 1.5 Mil included cancer patients with a particular focus on blood cancers, folks who received transplants not just over 70-year-olds. Nationalised public health allows you to take this type of action. Protecting the most venerable is a clear strategy to keep the hospitalization low. 

Additionally, UK government asked all local authorities to put all homeless members of society in housing/hotels for the near future - next 3 months. Again, housing the homeless will keep them out of hospitals.

 · 
Everyday Architect's comment has been hidden

NS, that's hilarious. The God that can save you from all your sins wouldn't be able to forgive you if you ate an Impossible Whopper. He created the heavens and the earth, but can't figure out this DNA thing. He's just sitting up there thinking, crap ... the devil got me this time.

Also, why does this guy think that God won't save other species? In 1989 I learned that all dogs go to heaven. 

 · 
Donna Sink's comment has been hidden

Do Lucifarians also smoke pot?

 · 
CodesareFUN's comment has been hidden
CodesareFUN

It’s the Devil’s grass, Donna. Don’t be tempted by Satan.

 · 
revolutionary poet's comment has been hidden
revolutionary poet

I really don't want to ruin this thread (so just a link) but this is the music Lucifarians listen to....Sleep - Dopesmoker

 · 
Peter Normand's comment has been hidden

There is always someone who is choosing to have more fun than you, and for some that just frost their cookies, or gets their guff, or some other christian way of cursing. In the Southern tradition, Mr. Wiles Bless Your Heart!

 · 

I'm a sole proprietor.  80% of my work is single-family homes and additions in the DC area.  About 1/3 of my work has been stopped with no indication on when it could come back online.  Looking for freelance work to pick up the slack.

Apr 1, 20 12:15 pm  · 
 · 
thisisnotmyname

You might qualify for an "economic injury" SBA loan. A loan isn't super duper but it's probably way better than paying expenses with credit cards or trying to use home equity.

 · 
revolutionary poet

Kurt do what above notes immediately - EIDLA, I submitted but no confirmation yet. It's $10k to cover. What we do is a luxury for home owners and our payments are large versus say the phone bill.

 · 
newguy

This whole situation sucks and exposes in an instant every governmental shortcoming that has been made in the name of austerity.  It lays bare the class divisions in our society, and we will unfortunately have a body count to point to in order to demonstrate this inequality.  

We could reasonably get through this with a competent government that cared about its citizens more than corporate profits.  But we don't, so we're going to be forced to go through this national trauma and prolonged economic recession in order to maintain our decrepit economic system that only enriches the few.

A few things that would go a long way to flattening the curve:

1) National moratorium on mortgages, rent, and property taxes for the duration of the crisis.  The only reason why people will leave their homes in the midst of a global pandemic is because they need to pay for their living situation.  Same applies to businesses who need to cover their rents.  A moratorium on this removes the single largest expense for every citizen and incentives them to stay home.  Today is April 1.  How many people of the 3 million recently unemployed missed their rent payments today?  How many of them will come out the other side of this crisis with 3 to 4 months of back-rent that they are unable to pay?  As soon as the health crisis ends, the economic crisis will begin.

2) Monthly payments to each citizen to cover food and basic needs.  This would be far more effective than a one time payment that is unnecessarily means tested.  You can always tax it at the end of the year if it's too much.

3) Medicare for all.  Look, this pandemic is going to rip through vulnerable communities and leave a wake of destruction, both physical and financial.  How many of those 3 million recently unemployed people just lost access to their healthcare because it was previously tethered to employment?  How many of those who uninsured who recover will now be forced to pay a hospital bill that they can not afford because they have no income and no insurance? Those people now unemployed, uninsured, and now housing insecure.  They are the ones most likely to get infection as they are forced to find income during a plague when nobody is hiring.  How many hospitals have been shuttered this decade alone because they are not deemed profitable?  There are major US cities that don't have a public hospital because they were sold off as assets for cash strapped municipalities.

4) Nationalize key industries, even if only temporarily.  This pandemic has very clearly shown that are 40 year drift toward hyper capitalist privatization has thoroughly hollowed out the infrastructure needed to keep our society functioning.  We are going to learn that the federal government has been forcing states to bid against one another to drive up the price of necessary medical equipment and personal protective equipment as well as using agencies such as FEMA to outbid state governments to funnel equipment to party loyalists and agencies such as ICE (this should be an outrage that forces a regime change, but we'll be so disoriented from this ordeal that it will go largely unnoticed.)  Even energy and telecommunication industries should be democratized, as it is now apparent that they are now essential infrastructure items needed to maintain any semblance of our economy.  Instead of having companies foot the bill for these items, it will be offloaded onto the backs of their workers.  A negative outcome of this pandemic will be the "uber-ization" of the private sector, where companies learn to cut costs by having their workers pay for most of the key overhead needed to run a business.

5) Immediately release all non-violent offenders in prisons and ICE concentration camps.  An outbreak of a deadly infectious disease in these closed quarters will deadly.   And if we honestly and soberly assess the communities who are targeted to fill these detention centers, then the question must be asked:  Will this be a genocide?  It's important to remember that Anne Frank did not die in the gas chambers.  She died along with 17,000 other prisoners from a typhus outbreak.

6) Shelter for the homeless.  Similar to above, but without a guarantee to housing, the people most likely to die in the streets will be the poor, the mentally unstable, and those with addiction or victims of domestic abuse.

But we won't do any of these things.  Instead we'll do what we always do:  Infuse the markets with liquidity and bail out industries with no strings attached (looking at you, Mnuchin) even as those same industries hemorrhage their workforce. And the result will be more and more people thrust into poverty and economic insecurity, with their entire existence dependent on their ability to provide productive value to a new boss.

So let's add these up and guess who will be most targeted by this pandemic: The poor, the elderly, minorities, the homeless.  In short, those who have been deemed economically un-productive.

And why?  Why neglect to address the items above?  Because to actually solve these issues, the state would have to admit that our current economic model is ineffective by design.  That it always has been.  Solving these issues would spread the idea that collective ownership of production of necessary industries is not only feasible, but morally responsible.  But instead we are left with a false choice where we try to balance when it is okay to re-open the market vs an acceptable body count.  And if at least 200,000 people have to die in order to maintain this system of extreme privatization followed by a deep and prolonged recession where more and more people are thrown into the streets, then that is what the government is going to do.  Because fuck you.

Apr 2, 20 12:43 am  · 
 · 
TED

Thank-you great post and agree 100%

 · 
RickB-Astoria's comment has been hidden
RickB-Astoria

FFS, there has only been ~5200 people who died in the U.S. This is NOT the worst pandemic we have as a country and world been through. It is serious but not the worst either. In 1918, things were far worse than it is now. This "recession" has only been weeks long. Maybe a month.... in the U.S. In some countries like China, it's been a little longer like a month or two longer than us. Once hospitals and clinics and medical resources are at a level to respond to this virus issue more efficiently the restrictions will be lifted incrementally. The stay at home order and such has been to slow down the pandemic infection so the health care system don't crash under the overload of cases. They are having a difficult time as is. There is also medication being tested and research for an actual vaccine. The latter will take more time but the medication can be ascertain in a matter of months with some testing already being looked at. In probably 6 months, some of the restrictions would be lifted but in a year, we should be in better shape and things getting back to more normal levels. Architect offices would begin to rehire between 6 to 12 months. While, it might not be at 100% but maybe 50% of those laid off be back to working again in 8 to 16 months. In 24 months, architects might rehire to about 75% of the positions laid off. So lets relax. We maybe back to levels we were at in 2016/2017 in 2 to 2.5 years. With or without the COVID-19, in the next year or so, we would be due for the economy slowing down a little and there would have been some lay offs as part of the economy of the architectural / construction field. This field operates on a boom/bust economy cycle. This is the nature of the field and that is not going to change no matter how much you scream and whine. This is how things work in capitalism. Quiet down and ride it out. It sucks.

 · 
RickB-Astoria's comment has been hidden
RickB-Astoria

PS: World wide, death toll is under 50,000. So perhaps it might reach 200,000 WORLD-WIDE in maybe 12 months to two years unless we are dumb and allow the outbreak to spread uncontrolled. 200,000 out of ~7.8 BILLION yeah.... ~7,800,000,000 PEOPLE.

 · 
TED's comment has been hidden
TED

1918 v now shouldn't be compared - we are an advanced, wealthy society and we should have predicted/prevented this globally - I think @newguy's main point is systematic resilience for a caring and loving society with human rights at the - what is the point of wealth if it is as the cost of society?

 · 
TED's comment has been hidden
TED

UN secretary general: recovery from the coronavirus crisis must lead to a better world via Guardian

António Guterres

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/02/un-secretary-general-coronavirus-crisis-world-pandemic-response

 · 
Donna Sink's comment has been hidden

totally agree, newguy.

 · 
Gregory Walker's comment has been hidden

seriously people? the death counts are much lower than 1918 for the same exact reason our life expectancy is much higher - our healthcare systems are light years ahead of that time.

that said, if we overwhelm that system to the point where we can't treat people, those numbers are going to skyrocket. 

 · 
square.'s comment has been hidden
square.

thumbs up newguy

 · 
square.'s comment has been hidden
square.

the people who think that things are working well must be benefiting from their relative security, unable to empathize with the millions who are suffering from the incompetence of a government that has been fracturing and deteriorating for decades. also- how can you draw any conclusions from this current pandemic? we have 0 idea how many deaths there will be, how many waves there will be, etc.. just because the death rate is currently better than before doesn't mean we can't point to the physical and economic suffering (which is likely to be unprecedented since the great depression)

 · 
Chad Miller's comment has been hidden
Chad Miller

The CDC is expecting between 100,000 and 250,000 deaths from this pandemic. BTW - what a huge fucking range!

 · 
tduds's comment has been hidden
tduds

People up here downplaying the death toll like the curve has peaked. It hasn't peaked, my guys. Extrapolate.

 · 
Chad Miller's comment has been hidden
Chad Miller

Yeah and that's just for the United States.

 · 
tduds's comment has been hidden
tduds

It took 65 days to reach 90,000 cases in the US. The next 90,000 took 5 days.

 · 
Chad Miller's comment has been hidden
Chad Miller

Yup.

 · 
x-jla's comment has been hidden
x-jla

It’s going to get a lot worse, but from what I’ve read, 10 undetected probably mild or asymptotic cases to every 1 confirmed. The death rate is probably a lot lower, and we are probably closer to a herd immunity than we think.

 · 
x-jla's comment has been hidden
x-jla

Looks like Italy rate is slowing down maybe approaching top of curve soon.

 · 
revolutionary poet
liberty bell

Back to lay-off talk:  20-person firm, Midwest, just put entire staff including partners on a 32 hour week. I honestly think it’s a smart move and we will ride it out. Hang in there everyone.

Apr 2, 20 10:48 am  · 
 · 
Bench

Was that yours LB? If so sorry to hear!

 · 

The Midwest isn't being hit as hard as the coasts, I imagine?


 · 
curtkram

it took a few days longer for the virus to get to us in the midwest. we had a chance to see what was happening in washington and how they responded, so our local governments were in a better position to prepare. i think that helped.

 · 
shellarchitect

word from our honchos is that the loans from the fed's will pay everyone's salary for 2 months, and will become grants if all stipulations are followed.  Hopefully that works out as planned.

Apr 2, 20 11:36 am  · 
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shellarchitect

Nurse wife is being sent to bedside care next week, hasn't done patient care in 10 years.  We're told that anyone who refuses will see immediate termination.  Nor are nurses allowed to wear their own PPE if the hospital cannot supply it.  (they can't)

I suspect there are some overzealous HR folks involved.  I'm certain that they will love dealing with a nurses union this time next year.

Apr 2, 20 11:40 am  · 
 · 
SneakyPete's comment has been hidden
SneakyPete

havent you heard? unions are always bad. I hope your wife stays healthy.

 · 
shellarchitect's comment has been hidden
shellarchitect

Thanks sneaky, the hospital admins are a bunch of pompous boobs

 · 
geezertect's comment has been hidden
geezertect

As usual, this will be a feeding frenzy for tort lawyers.

 · 
x-jla's comment has been hidden
x-jla

Ridiculous. My younger sister is a nurse too. She didn’t have a proper mask for over 2 weeks. She has a heart condition and just got over viral meningitis. She said “this is my duty, I’m a nurse”. Unbelievably brave. Best of luck to your wife!

 · 
x-jla's comment has been hidden
x-jla

And my lawyer sister is already thinking of who to sue! Lol. Such a crazy time.

 · 
x-jla's comment has been hidden
x-jla

Why aren’t hotels (cough cough trump hotels) being used for nurses and docs to keep isolated from families?

 · 
Thayer-D's comment has been hidden
Thayer-D

These life savers are the heroes of this whole thing. Wonder if they'll allow them to board planes first etc. when this thing is over. If anything this will hopefully raise the care giving jobs to the status they deserve. "The measure of a civilization is how it treats its weakest members." Hats off to your sister jla-x.

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thisisnotmyname

A real challenge of the PPP is going to be how the banks are going to handle the huge wave of applications from borrowers.  I also think the $350 billion is going to be exhausted pretty quickly.

Apr 2, 20 11:57 am  · 
 · 
proto

all the best archinect peeps - stay safe!

Apr 2, 20 1:17 pm  · 
 · 
RickB-Astoria

I would say, I hope all of the archinect folks to stay safe and hope things get better for all.

 · 
code

6.6 million layed off and furloughed so far, Boeing announces employee buyouts

Apr 2, 20 7:14 pm  · 
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x-jla

Shit. Not to make light of this, but I’d really be interested to see the co2 dip this thing has caused. I haven’t seen a plane in days.

 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

I've been saying this like a preacher at a hot-dish party; the earth is tired of this virus - humans - and it's ready for the purge.

 · 
revolutionary poet

some maps

H/O: NASA Coronavirus pollution China map

Nitrogen dioxide

Satellite Images Reveal A Dramatic Drop In Pollution During The ...


 · 
revolutionary poet

beta, you mean this move clip


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cipyboy

Few days ago, our firm laid off around 15% 30+ people from our 3 offices across the east coast. Pay cuts starting around 5-10%. But have to be happy we're still working. One of my staff was about to get the boot but I had to find work for him to do to get his 40hrs/wk. We're based in Central Fl

Apr 4, 20 12:05 pm  · 
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joseffischer

We are WFH and are to use the 80 new hours on our time sheets provided by the fed govt to cover any slack work.  Given the current pace, that should cover all employees through the end of summer without furlough or layoffs.  

Apr 4, 20 12:30 pm  · 
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Non Sequitur

we’ve fully converted to WFH and had an office wide video meeting yesterday. No loss of production or billable time so things are looking as good as they can be.  Got a few new projects on the books too. 

Apr 4, 20 12:43 pm  · 
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RickB-Astoria

Cool. It's good to hear that things are still doing alright for you.

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Again!

Hearing about lots of layoffs in NYC. Was laid off myself March 20 with 10 others after our first week of WFH out of 80ish person firm.  Was there +5 years, associate. Laid off over the phone, no contact from bosses, 2 weeks severance, zero effort at empathy. Is this crisis bringing out the worst in others’ former (or current) employers?

Apr 4, 20 11:42 pm  · 
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OneLostArchitect

My buddy got laid off over a text message...

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sp429

I'm also in NYC; furloughed for about a month now. Midsize firm mostly education, residential, & corporate interiors. Seems like construction work within the city is stopping, deemed non-essential? Friends who work in global/larger firms still seem busy. Anyone else have any input on what's going on here?

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square.

i'm in nyc as well. hearing that firms that are in luxury, private residential, and commercial (obviously) are laying off, where as firms that are in affordable/public housing (state/city funding) are decently weathering the storm (these projects have been deemed essential).

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code

a text message?

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sp429

I see... thanks for the input square

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ThinkRevit

Sorry for everyone that has been laid off from their job or been directly affected. It is probably just a matter of time before I too am confronted with such. Hopefully job losses will be temporary for most and we will resume our positions or find new jobs. The conditions underlying this slowdown are very unique. The economy may pick back up as quickly as it came to a halt. 

Apr 5, 20 12:23 pm  · 
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RickB-Astoria's comment has been hidden
RickB-Astoria

Actually, it always slower to pick up than to halt. However, it could pick up pretty quickly. Maybe it might take two to three times longer than it did to halt. Remember, once the executive orders were shutting down things throughout the States, it was like all in a 1 to 1.5 month time frame. So, it could pick up in about 3-4.5 to maybe 6 months or so about once this COVID-19 stuff is behind us. I'm more leaning towards expecting a 4.5 to 9 month time frame for the economy to pick up in the architectural/construction sector maybe a little longer as it depends on your client and their occupational field or business enterprise's market sector. They will likely hold off architectural projects or whatever until AFTER they recoup their losses for this year so if their economy picks up and they recoup a sizable portion of their losses and they year growth trends in sales getting back to where they were or significant economic momentum towards it, they will be hesitant on moving forward on some projects especially at design phase and before permits. Once permits are issued, they maybe more pressed to move forward with those and paying to a little extension to their permit's period of validity or whatever if necessary. 

Economy has great brakes but rather slow acceleration. It is by design and engineering of the economic system that it is that way. It's a complex systemic matter including economics psychology (the psychology framework and how money people in charge of financial resources of organizations think under various settings like in times of uncertainty and psychological modes they go into and the consequences of those modes of thinking.) Example: In times of uncertainty, the ultra fiscal conservation mode and how people tend to hold off on spending and keep their money in such times. Perception and how they FEEL is really a part of the decision making.

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