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awaiting_deletion

If I were to base this election simply on lawn signs, flags, stickers, t-shirts, in the Northeast from Philly to NYC and north, over to CT,  Trump has this election hands down.  I saw one Biden/Harris T-shirt and a barely legible Joe Biden 2020 flag (he needs to work on his graphic design, the Trump ones are obvious).  Like literally blocks of suburban homes with Lawn and Flags for Trump.  My favorite to date, you can guess the person, subtitle - "Fuck your Feelings"...yes, when talking about politics please do not get emotional (it's not worth it). 

Lastly, I don't care who wins as long as the tariffs are strong on China, I've seen this in action making jobs come by to the USA, the tariff  on one job for cabinets made the wall street guy order local, well not NYC (that was still to much) but had to abandon the China order for someone in the midwest.  Nothing emotional here, just monetary, so if whoever wins can continue this, all for it.   Could care less what they think about "ethics".  Morals shouldn't be anything the government has an opinion on, that's my opinon.



Sep 6, 20 10:30 am  · 
1  · 
awaiting_deletion

I'm just basing this on lawn and front porch "flare", maybe Biden peeps are more low-key

Office Space Joanna Flair Jennifer Aniston GIF by Danno | Gfycat

Sep 6, 20 9:51 pm  · 
5  · 
bowling_ball

"Morals shouldn't be anything the government has an opinion on, that's my opinon." That's the stupidest thing I've read all day. I get it - legalize drugs and prostitution, etc... but that doesn't give any government carte blanche to commit war crimes, for example. Ethics need to be considered in all decisions more complicated than math problems.

Sep 8, 20 11:24 am  · 
1  · 
awaiting_deletion

bowling_ball - what you quote was meant in the sense of "telling you how to live". War on the other hand, well now you're talking structure and systems, economy, standards of living, "freedom" depending who you talk to, etc...and its too complicated for any one human to have more than an opinion on it, moreover to even make a statement on it, hence all that yelling above by two dutch people (well one I gather is of dutch decent). Anyone can be against war, that's the easy part "ethically", but as I note to complicated to address or even bother addressing here...Now put that on some lawn "flare".

Sep 8, 20 6:17 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Pretty sure it's 'flair', my dude.

Sep 8, 20 6:21 pm  · 
 · 
citizen

Love that lawn and front porch flare.  What could go wrong?


Sep 8, 20 7:23 pm  · 
2  · 
SneakyPete

Wonder what gender the tablecloth will be.

Sep 8, 20 8:07 pm  · 
2  · 
SneakyPete

More like a 100% chance of burning down the fucking neighborhood. And you still won't get the gender right. 

Sep 8, 20 8:27 pm  · 
2  ·  1
awaiting_deletion

bruh - let's go with lawn "flare" and then make meme's, since you may know what movie I'm rolling with here, a Mike Judge classic....

what party is this guy (meme)

Office Space' Got Rid Of TGIF Flair - Business Insider

and what party is this lady (meme)

Office Space facts: Office Space 20th anniversary | EW.com

Richard Dawkins on the internet's hijacking of the word 'meme'  (in case you're into being educated about stuff)


Sep 8, 20 8:59 pm  · 
1  · 
citizen

One of the best movies there is. I've posted a meme (sorry!) or two from this cinema classic here over the years. Jennifer Aniston is a wonderful surprise in it.

Sep 8, 20 9:12 pm  · 
1  · 
Non Sequitur

^ I doubt many know the origins of the term. I came across it some 12-15ish years ago when I first started reading Dawkings.

Sep 8, 20 9:13 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

yeah, I thought Aniston did real well in this one, but this dude was many of my studio mates in undergrad's hero, with one of the best lines ever -

and damn you NS for being so damn educate!


Sep 8, 20 9:25 pm  · 
 · 
citizen

Even if it wasn't packed full of great scenes, this alone is worth the 90-minute run time:

Reaction gif tagged with stare, David Herman, Office Space

Sep 8, 20 9:47 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

for Bowling_Ball (history repeats over and over in many versions)

 6:00 - right to vote argument to change things, average but involved citizen

10:00 +/- probably most architects after a liberal arts education

14:00 +/- letting the man speak even if you don't agree

18:18 - more like someone on this website  ;)

20:45 - government and the mob, let's get some theories going...conspiracy theories are always good

32:00 +/-  most of 'merica's opinion on middle to upper class college kids with opinions demostrating 

34:00 + its complicated! and the dude calls some of the best film people ever childish...yes it's complicated.

36:30 - counter revolution, this was 1970, the end of the 1968 riots and movements (so to speak), the 1970 hard hat riot was the "silent majority" reacting...guess where we are at now in 2020 or close...

38:00 +/-  media likes the kids

NYU film students: Martin Scorsese, Oliver Stone, Harvey Keitel, and Helma Schoonmaker

enjoy ;)


Sep 8, 20 9:35 pm  · 
 · 

Really inspiring political discussion going on here. One side is bad because there are hypocrites among their ranks. The other side is bad because they like flair and so did the Nazis. But that is only when we can stop arguing over what the Dutch did/do and whether they get to hold the high ground on being all tolerant and anti-racist. 

54 days until Nov 3rd and this is what we're talking about. Trump is exactly the president we deserve.

Sep 9, 20 11:39 am  · 
3  · 
SneakyPete

I don't agree with your final sentence.

Sep 9, 20 11:50 am  · 
 · 

I don't like it either, but I'm not seeing convincing evidence to the contrary. I'll happily be proved wrong on Jan 20th.

Sep 9, 20 12:20 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

We includes you when you say it and me when I say it. I don't deserve this fucking gas bag and neither do you.

Sep 9, 20 12:34 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Image may contain: text that says 'Alissa Azar @R3volutionDaddy Y'all kept saying Portland was on fire until it actually happened huh 1:52 PM Sep 8, 2020 Twitter for iPhone 80 Retweets 7 Quote Tweets 561 Likes'.

Sep 9, 20 12:24 pm  · 
2  · 
randomised

tduds, be sure to wash your hands regularly now that you took your gloves off, and don’t touch your face!

Sep 9, 20 12:46 pm  · 
 ·  3
randomised

Geez Louise, I was just kidding because tduds took his gloves off in the middle of a pandemic...lighten up b3tasneak!

Sep 9, 20 3:41 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

hilarious

Sep 9, 20 3:42 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

Thought so too!

Sep 9, 20 4:04 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Checking out for a while. This thread clearly is not good for my stress this week.

Sep 9, 20 1:03 pm  · 
4  · 
SneakyPete

Yep.

Sep 9, 20 1:05 pm  · 
 · 
citizen

Concur, tduds. I'd just substitute "year" for "week."

Sep 9, 20 2:24 pm  · 
 · 

Hot takes on the Bob Woodward book? Go!

Sep 10, 20 1:59 am  · 
1  · 
randomised

And now for some positive news, Trump got nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts to bring peace to the Middle East! Hope it will work, his track record is better than his predecessors:


Sep 10, 20 4:52 am  · 
 ·  3
randomised

Sorry for the triple post! It first didn’t show up twice so put it in TC, thought I lost posting privileges here or something. But later it showed a 502 Bad Gateway, I don’t know. It wasn’t my intention to, mods can kill these two in PC if they want.

Sep 10, 20 5:51 am  · 
 · 
randomised

And now for some positive news, Trump got nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts to bring peace to the Middle East. Hope it will work out, for now his track record is much better than his predecessors: 


Sep 10, 20 4:55 am  · 
 ·  3
b3tadine[sutures]

I'll fix this for you

Sep 10, 20 6:48 am  · 
1  · 
Non Sequitur

Never heard of opp infinite reach before but if I had to guess, I would have guess it was Bill's.

Sep 10, 20 7:25 am  · 
 · 
randomised

That was around the time Clinton lied in his Grand Jury testimony, I’m sure the timing was coincidental ;-)

Sep 10, 20 7:33 am  · 
 · 
BabbleBeautiful

Problems with the title & content of the poster aside, since when does not starting a war = nobel peace prize?

Sep 10, 20 8:37 am  · 
 · 
square.

you really have nothing better to do with your time than troll american architects on an american architecture website about american politics? looks like a fetish at this point.

Sep 10, 20 8:45 am  · 
1  · 
randomised

Babble, Trump is nominated for his work in the Middle East, bringing the UAE and Israel closer together...don’t you follow any news? But about the image, just a nice image to show his clean slate, it does not relate literally to his Nobel nomination, too much time on the golf course to be starting any wars probably!

Sep 10, 20 9:28 am  · 
 · 
square.

"no square, i am simply trying to.. dumb americans.. imperialism.. mcdonalds... obama.... world order.... illuminati........"

Sep 10, 20 9:33 am  · 
 · 
BabbleBeautiful

rando: I'm fully abreast the news and my question still stands as I don't see "brining the UAE and Isreal closer together" as a qualifier.

Lastly, I'd like to nominate you for the Darwin Award.

Sep 10, 20 9:40 am  · 
1  · 
randomised

What question still stands Babble? And you clearly don’t know what the Darwin Award is as I’m still alive and well. That picture is just a nice reminder of the peaceful nature of the current presidency, not following the orders of the Military Industrial Complex and such, does not directly relate to his nomination, but shows character.

Sep 10, 20 9:48 am  · 
 · 
randomised

square, or you could simply read what I wrote...you’re clearly out of your depth and grasping at straws here. Make a coffee and try again, I’m not going anywhere.

Sep 10, 20 9:54 am  · 
 · 
square.

repeating the word "clearly" doesn't make your "argument" understandable.

Sep 10, 20 10:01 am  · 
 · 
BabbleBeautiful

I consider you and your arguments dead, rando.

Sep 10, 20 10:05 am  · 
 · 
randomised

Sorry for your loss!

Sep 10, 20 10:11 am  · 
1  · 
randomised

Square, “clearly” not! Sorry, that you’re unable to understand what I am trying to say. What is it you don’t understand, perhaps I can rephrase.

Sep 10, 20 10:14 am  · 
 · 
randomised

They nominated Obama after two weeks in office, before all his bombings and killing of innocent civilians.

Sep 10, 20 11:08 am  · 
 · 
BabbleBeautiful

I don't agree with the NPP nomination or award of any US president as that individual cannot and does not operate within the framework of altruism, which I believe is to the the spirit of NPP.

Also, if anyone has any real understanding of the middle east it's obvious the potentially softened ties between the UAE and Israel doesn't guarantee shit.

Sep 10, 20 12:00 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

How about we leave this thread to the two wankers and their consistent fluffers, as they don't have large enough minds to change.

Sep 10, 20 12:16 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

Nominations are meaningless. 318 people were nominated this year. Past nominees include Adolph Hitler.

Sep 10, 20 2:33 pm  · 
3  · 
tduds

"Over time, many individuals have become known as "Nobel Peace Prize Nominees", but this designation has no official standing, and means only that one of the thousands of eligible nominators suggested the person's name for consideration." -Wikipedia, emphasis mine.

Sep 10, 20 2:33 pm  · 
1  · 
curtkram

trump tried to bring peace to the middle east by keeping palestine out of the talks. seriously.

Sep 10, 20 7:52 pm  · 
2  · 
randomised

Tduds, that nomination of Hitler was done by an anti fascist activist as a kind of trolling, and it worked because no one got the prize for peace that year...obviously

Sep 11, 20 2:02 am  · 
 · 
randomised

Curt, you can make peace agreements with separate parties involved, one by one, saving the best for last...if all other countries in the Middle East reach agreements with Israel, that will put serious pressure on the Palestine authorities to soften up as well. I think it is a good first step, better than anything happening there under Obama and Bush...

Sep 11, 20 2:12 am  · 
 · 
randomised

“ How about we leave this thread to the two wankers and their consistent fluffers”

The floor is yours!

Sep 11, 20 2:14 am  · 
 · 
BabbleBeautiful

.

Sep 10, 20 9:38 am  · 
 · 
randomised

square, the Nobel Peace Prize is not American, the Middle East is not American and archinect, founded by a Canadian, is about bringing together designers from around the globe. Now, judging from your username here you might be a flat earther that doesn’t know what around the globe means, but it means more than just ‘Merica...




Sep 10, 20 9:40 am  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

this is news. I come here to discuss kangaroos and cilantro chopping techniques.

Sep 10, 20 9:41 am  · 
2  · 
randomised

I come here to post Urban Dance Squad https://youtu.be/QQZGINShLWI

Sep 10, 20 10:09 am  · 
 · 

No one wants to tackle the Woodward book and POTUS interviews? I'll go then ... even tying it to architecture. 

It is enraging to say the least, yet not unexpected that POTUS was lying to us the whole time about the severity of the virus and what he knew. I doubt he'll have any trouble sleeping at night, but I'd hope that a few of the members of congress that also knew and went along with it might feel a little of the weight of 190,000 dead on their shoulders. 

I thought this morning about the Citicorp tower and the structural issues that were discovered and subsequently fixed and how it is used as a case study in professional ethics in engineering and architecture curricula. LeMessurier is largely held as having acted ethically even though the scope and scale of the problems were downplayed so as to avoid public panic. It is not lost on me that POTUS and the administration were attempting to do the same as they downplayed (and are still downplaying) the severity of the virus. 

The difference I can see is that while one was managed with a proper plan and resulted in no catastrophe and no loss of life, the other had no (good) plan, and has resulted in significant loss of life. I suppose when you can downplay things and prevent the thing you're downplaying from happening, you can get away with it. I'm certain that if a storm had come and toppled the tower the case study would be taught differently. 

We'll see if POTUS gets away with it having downplayed it and not preventing the thing he was downplaying from happening. I don't know who said it first, but I've seen it a few times now ... Trump just shot 190,000 people in the middle of Fifth Ave, we'll see if he gets away with it.

P.s. I'm not happy about Woodward, Simon & Schuster, and WaPo sitting on this until now either. This might soon become something taught in journalism schools re: professional ethics. I do hope the journalism profession takes a hard look at this as well. One big reason why I'm suppressing my anger for Bob at the moment ... he's not on the ballot in November.

Sep 10, 20 1:30 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Resetting the clock to zero. Challenge still stands.

Sep 10, 20 2:03 pm  · 
1  · 

Exaggerating the scale of the lies is also bad. Please provide sources for when it was claimed that covid isn't spread during protests. We can get into the masks thing later.

Sep 10, 20 2:08 pm  · 
1  · 

Meh, you're full of lies.

Sep 10, 20 2:08 pm  · 
3  · 

My god you're an idiot.

Sep 10, 20 2:25 pm  · 
3  · 
SneakyPete

JLA: I could come out and make a statement that you all agree with, but instead I'll say it it as a double negative and then pivot to a wishy-washy statement that isn't provable (even though the initial statement I could have made is...) because God forbid I have a single fucking point of view that isn't full of crap.

The rest of us: *rolling eyes in back of skulls*

Sep 10, 20 2:26 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

Hey JLA, you know what would make the media less annoying? Having less shit to report on from corrupt fucking fat cats in politics. Having less shit to report on from corrupt cops. Having less shit to report on due to the desperation resulting from poverty that leads to crime. Having less shit to report on from institutions who are supposed to HELP the common good but instead HURT it. If that shit wasn't common, incessant, and pervasive maybe the big bad CNNs of the world would have less to report on that you would need to turn a blind eye to in order to continue whipping the wrong culprit. But then I don't think you'd know what to do with yourself without your "MEDIA IS BAD" blanket.

Sep 10, 20 2:30 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

3)they reported the story with the information they had (which you do not have)

Sep 10, 20 2:35 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

jla, where do you get your information from? Is it the media? Or do you have a group of investigators reporting things directly to you?

Sep 10, 20 2:37 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

Your armchair logic is worth about as much as the armchair. BLM protests in my town used masks. The beach-goers, political rally attendees, and motorcyle rally riders took pride in flaunting this universally agreed upon basic prevention method. This is one possible reason. Please do your best to sound completely idiotic while responding. Also I have reset the clock to zero. Challenge still stands.

Sep 10, 20 2:43 pm  · 
1  · 

So here's my issue with what you've posted re: protests, rallies, etc. At the time, as linked in the article you posted about protests, health officials were concerned about the virus spreading ... only after the fact that studies were showing that there wasn't a large spike of infections related to it do you see the article you posted. 

Note the timeline: June 1 article, concern about spike in protest-related cases. June 24 article, study showing protests not causing spike in cases. The study also cautions that there might be a rise in cases, but it just isn't showing, "The attendees may further be a selected subpopulation of younger individuals who if infected have less severe symptoms (Liao et al. 2020) and thus may never get tested and not show up in the official COVID-19 numbers.

Now play this out over the other articles you posted. Burning Man celebration on the beach, written at the time of the gathering. Officials were responding with caution just like with the protests. Let's wait for the follow up. 

Sturgis Motorcycle Rally, written at the time of the rally. There has been some follow up with explanations about why it has been different than the BLM protests (BLM protesters didn't gather indoors at bars and tattoo parlors). 

Now does all of this mean that the restrictions on beaches might be excessive or over reaching ... perhaps. But I don't think they are unwarranted; others can disagree. Most beach restrictions I've seen recently have still allowed people to go, just not large groups or overcrowding. Regardless the pattern has largely been the same for all of these. Specifically, concern and caution expressed, with the event happening, and then further study and analysis.

Sep 10, 20 2:43 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

The only idiot positing a good guy bad guy narrative is you. I have not, and never will, posit a good guy as a savior. But I'm also not going to try and muddy the water (like you LOVE to try to do) so the worst of us seem less bad by comparison. And the day you have a point is the day Hell freezes over.

Sep 10, 20 2:45 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

You realize you're the clown, right?

Sep 10, 20 2:58 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

"we should be equally calling out all forms of misinformation and BS, not just when it fits a political narrative."

Irony alert.

Sep 10, 20 3:09 pm  · 
1  · 
BabbleBeautiful

x-jla, did you even read the articles or the research paper only one of them is referring to or do you have the same reading comprehension problems as ghwarton?

Sep 10, 20 3:13 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

That's a real nice straw man, there. Too bad none of it is based on anything I said.

Sep 10, 20 3:28 pm  · 
1  · 
square.

going to the bar or paying for the services of private businesses isn't protected in the constitution; free speech is.

damn that was easy.

Sep 10, 20 3:31 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

You're a landscape designer, schools are outside your purview.

Sep 10, 20 3:48 pm  · 
2  · 
SneakyPete

And instead of focusing on the problem, which is selfish people doing selfish things, you invent a reality where the media is the worst thing and, until you have actual information, it will remain a figment of the fantasy world you inhabit. You could use the brain in your head to provide insights into actual events actually happening, but you choose instead to ramble like a lunatic, tilting at windmills and saying little of consequence.

Sep 10, 20 3:51 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

Two media articles reporting on the topic you have adamantly maintained the media won't discuss.

Sep 10, 20 4:03 pm  · 
2  · 
square.

you're border line manic at this point. i'm worried.

also how old are you? "don’t make me school you" "toodles" i'm starting to think xlax is one of those teenagers masquerading as an adult landscape designer, which would explain a lot.

Sep 10, 20 4:06 pm  · 
1  · 
square.

three other points for your thick binary skull- 1) protests were limited through curfews, and continue to be limited through police who dictate where, when, and how protests happen (only for those who don't agree with the pres, right wingers like you can march into state capitals with assault rifles and threaten governors without any recourse). 2) religious gatherings weren't really outright banned everywhere, mostly inside buildings. outdoor religious ceremonies could and do continue to happen. and virtual gatherings are happening as well. it's all about the spirit, right? 3) this is different in every state. stop pretending there's some left wing deep state controlling everyone nationwide. only your boy tRump is using the fed to bust into cities across the countries and arrest people without attending to their rights. the paranoia..

Sep 10, 20 4:16 pm  · 
1  · 

I don't know why I have to say this, but here I am. None of the articles you posted point to the media lying about the coronavirus not being spread by protests. They may point to some hypocrisy of elected individuals (golf clap), but they don't do what you are claiming they do, nor what I asked you to do in order to refute your statement, "They also lied that covid doesn’t spread during protests but spreads at beaches (makes zero sense).

Psst, it makes zero sense because it's all in your mind.

Sep 10, 20 4:19 pm  · 
1  · 

"We also knew covid obviously spread during protests and the dem politicians Were downplaying that." Sources please. I don't know of any politician that was downplaying that the protests could be potential spreaders. I'm not trying to stick up for Dems, btw, just trying to stick up for not exaggerating things to fit a narrative.

Sep 10, 20 4:47 pm  · 
1  · 
square.

i'm not fan of the dnc. i understand the hatred of the political class. i'm there. i voted for bernie. but to say that trump's lying and downplaying the virus is equivalent to the "media" is asinine, and why no one takes you seriously on this site. you also qualify and bury every single thing you say with "but the left wing marxist media," rather than for once saying "you know, trump lying killed thousands of people."

Sep 10, 20 4:50 pm  · 
 · 
square.

nice editing. conveniently skipped the part about mentioning the media and WHO first; proving my point.

Sep 10, 20 5:01 pm  · 
1  · 

Good for you. Did you need a gold star? No one has any issue with you saying things like that. At issue for now is that you've exaggerated things (or fabricated them) to fit your narrative that both sides are equally bad. And that criticism of the republican party/conservatives/right wing/etc. must also be followed with criticism of the democratic party/liberals/progressives/antifa/etc. so as not to seem like you've gone left, but not the other way around.

Sep 10, 20 5:03 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

"absolutely" "consistently" "clearly"


Sep 10, 20 5:09 pm  · 
1  · 

[citation needed]

Also, shameless plug for a blog post where I used that Princess Bride reference too: https://archinect.com/arch-ell...

Sep 10, 20 5:27 pm  · 
 · 

Look I'll give you that there were people that avoided doctor's appointments due to fear of catching the virus. I cancelled and haven't reschedule my regular dentist appointment (I've missed what would have been two at this point). Not likely to be an issue for me in the long term luckily. 

What I don't get is why you think it is necessary to bring this up as some sort of statement that both sides are bad. Yes, there are likely issues related to cancellations or postponements of those appointments, but do you honestly think that the effect of those people not going to the doctor during this period has had the same effect as 6.4 million people catching COVID-19 (and all the potential future complications ... whatever they may be) and 190,000 people dead in the US?

Sep 10, 20 5:38 pm  · 
 · 

Fair enough, but that's off-topic to the discussion I started at the beginning concerning the revelations of Trump's lies from the Woodward interview. If you'd rather not discuss the topic at hand, that's fine. Please comment somewhere else rather than derail the discussion. At this point we've had maybe a handful of comments that were about the topic, and we've spent the rest of the time discussing why you feel the need to be off topic. It's not conducive to any type of meaningful discussion. BTW, I'm including myself in that criticism. I responded. I didn't have to.

BTW, if a moderator wants to hide all the comments that aren't on topic, I'm cool with that.

Sep 10, 20 6:08 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

You carry water for Trump. You make excuses for Trump. Example: "Trumps lies that downplayed the virus were a poor attempt to counter the media hysteria about the severity of the virus." This is not fact, yet you present it as one. You are not unbiased. You are not better than. You are delusional.

Sep 10, 20 6:09 pm  · 
1  · 

note that my response above was before I'd seen jla's comment attempting to tie it back to the topic

Sep 10, 20 6:10 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

Please continue to set up weak assed straw men and weak assed statements designed to hide yourself from the fact that you are a right wing idealogue with delusions of neutrality. It would be amusing if it weren't so maddening.

Sep 10, 20 6:10 pm  · 
 · 

jla, to respond to your question of whether or not the media is playing politics to hurt his campaign ... I'd refer you to the one like you've received so far in all of this back and forth. I don't like that it seems like they've held off on this until now and I agree that it seems like they are releasing it now in an attempt to persuade the electorate. But I'm also not going to let that distract me from what I see as the larger issue of keeping Trump out of the WH for 4 more years (per the postscript in my original post).

Sep 10, 20 6:14 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Wishful thinking is your bread and butter.

Sep 10, 20 7:16 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Did the media murder someone you love? Show me on this doll where the media touched you.

Sep 10, 20 7:17 pm  · 
1  · 

I don't recall anyone saying that if we remove Trump everything will be ok. I'm under no delusions that that would be the case, and I doubt a lot of people supporting Biden believe that too. I doubt Biden would miraculously turn everything around and do a whole lot better, but I'm fairly certain it would be better than Trump, and if not a step in the right direction it would at least be a good idea to get Trump out of the oval office. 

So while I applaud you for your lofty goals, no, we won't take care of the "much larger degenerative condition of the political class and media in this country" in one election ... but getting rid of Trump seems like a good place to start. Showing incumbent republicans that were silent or complicit to Trump's offenses in order to avoid getting "primary-ed" out of their seats that there are consequences for their complicity and tribalism would also be good. 

As for the dem's hypocrisy and the left-wing media conspiracies you like to complain about so much ... sure, let's get rid of that too, but it's like halfway down the list for me.

Sep 10, 20 7:28 pm  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Man, this is so good.

If The Orange Shitgibbon had just done his job from day one, and not play 365 days of golf over the course of three years, none of this would be occurring.

End of fucking story.

Sep 10, 20 7:40 pm  · 
 · 

jla, fair enough. I didn't think you'd agree and it makes sense you'd side with Trump over the Dems given your biases.

Sep 10, 20 11:32 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

you just vote knowing full well it enables the republicans yet not caring about the consequences because it allows you to continue living the lie inside your head -all you truly care about- which is: "I'm always right."

Sep 11, 20 12:49 am  · 
 · 

I’ll concede that my comment for you siding with Trump was a false dichotomy. I’ll also point out that it’s not a false dichotomy that the political system is a two-party system which forces a dichotomy if you want to end up voting for the eventual president. So yes, you’re free to not side with him, but whether you like it or not, if your not voting for Biden, your vote will be counted as favorable to Trump given his advantage in the electoral college. I know you already understand that. I’m only pointing it out to indicate that while I agree with your comment about the point of voting, it doesn’t really work out that idealistically in reality. You only have to go back to the beginning of Politics Central to see that I’d favor changes made to get away from a two-party system and that you agree with me.

Sep 11, 20 8:27 am  · 
1  · 

All this has given me a new idea. Someone posts something that points to Republican hypocrisy and we see if jla responds to denounce it, or to support it.

A few rules: Up until the point jla responds, people can place their predictions of whether he will support or denounce. You can't place a prediction on something you post. First to reply with the correct prediction gets to post next. I'll go first. 

Mitch McConnell and filling a Supreme Court vacancy during an election year. 2016: Wait for the election and let the people decide who should fill the vacancy. 2020: "Oh, we'd fill it."

Sep 10, 20 8:21 pm  · 
2  · 
SneakyPete

My turn: Trump constantly complained that Obama was abusing Executive Orders, yet now is using them to excess.

Sep 10, 20 10:56 pm  · 
1  · 

Adding in a rule that you need to cite sources too: Here's one for SP's issue. Also probably better to start a new comment for new issues rather than simply add to the replies. 

Prediction: He'll denounce it, but also make a comment about how the hyper-partisanship and dysfunction in congress has caused the chief executive to use them more or something like that.

Sep 10, 20 11:27 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

You don't get to start.

Sep 11, 20 12:46 am  · 
 · 

It’s not like we are really talking about what we agree on, rather we are simply teasing out whether you can be critical of the right as much as you can be for the left. Also, I think seeing where we have common ground is helpful in combating partisanship.

Sep 11, 20 8:14 am  · 
 · 

This one maybe isn’t as straightforward as the others have been, but Republican attempts to restrict abortion through restrictive state legislation haven’t largely been attributed with the overall reduction in abortion rate. Rather, access to contraceptives covered under the ACA, among other things, are more likely to have caused the decline. I shouldn’t need to point out that Republicans and their evangelical base aren’t that into being pro-choice, contraceptives, nor the ACA. For articles, there are many (https://khn.org/morning-breakout/abortion-rate-hits-record-low-but-experts-say-its-not-state-restrictions-that-are-responsible-for-the-dip/), but it seems most of these are relying on a report from the left-leaning, pro-choice Guttmacher Institute. #fulldisclosure

Sep 11, 20 8:10 am  · 
 · 
randomised

“ Rather, access to contraceptives covered under the ACA, among other things, are more likely to have caused the decline.”

That’s very good news!

Sep 11, 20 9:18 am  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

ummm, you're trampling dangerous territory Jla. Putting aside your silly personhood/constitution nonsense (it is), you assume most abortions are elective and late term while in reality, the vast majority of them are medical necessities or within the first trimester. What you're doing by adding all these inane stipulations is creating further hurdles to basic woman healthcare and preventing them from exercising their choice of their bodies.

Sep 11, 20 11:02 am  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

so, we agree that it's a complicated thing... and certainly something well above the intellectual capacity of politicians and "public opinion". Important medical services should not be based on fluffy labels such as "personhood" in this case. Another low social evolutionary point by the good folks of M'urica.

Sep 11, 20 11:20 am  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

Jla, it also teases out people who think they are smart on the subject but in reality, they fall flat on their ignorant faces very quickly. There is no debate here, only the illusion of one by those who simply cannot (or refuse to) understand the issues. I know which group you belong in.

Sep 11, 20 11:23 am  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

I am not. Just like the person-hood term, inserted into this topic by idiot religious folks to fake a debate, you're missing the bigger pictures. The debate here is a false one and I equal it with the same intellectual level as flat earth or creationism. To debate your silly POV is to give your "points" ill-deserved sense of importance. Take the hint, you're drastically on the wrong side.

Sep 11, 20 11:34 am  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

Instead of relying on the real issues, you're focused on a inane definition of term specifically inserted into this "debate" to steer the conversation in favor of the anti-crowd. Again, another example as to why M'erica is the shit show it is today. Don't confuse my avoidance of debate as sign that I am not informed. I am exceptionally well versed on this topic. I am simply not in the mood to educate someone who cares little about the issue.

Sep 11, 20 12:02 pm  · 
 · 

Does this mean that randomised is next? He was the only one to submit a reply before jla ... just no predictions.

Sep 11, 20 12:05 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

That should be good...

Sep 11, 20 12:11 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

from EA's article, and part of the issues I insinuate above: 

"They say the increased harassment has coincided with newly enacted state laws restricting legal abortion and polarizing rhetoric surrounding the procedure." 

Nonsense term definition circle jerking and false "scientific appeals" like jla's lead to this type crap. Enjoy your flaming dumpster.

Sep 11, 20 12:15 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

“ Does this mean that randomised is next? He was the only one to submit a reply before jla ... just no predictions.”

Next what ? Not following...

Sep 11, 20 12:31 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Reading comprehension has never been one of your strongest suits.

Sep 11, 20 12:37 pm  · 
2  · 
SneakyPete

"Define something scientists can't agree on, then base all policy on my personal definition because you can't do what I demand" - X-Lax


"I'm a big tough guy in real life and therefore feel the need to brag about it on the internet to win internet points while accusing someone else of wanting to be an internet tough guy. The irony is totally invisible to me" - Also X-Lax

Sep 11, 20 12:38 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

So help me out here oh mighty Sneak, what was meant by EA’s words.

Sep 11, 20 12:57 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Ask EA.

Sep 11, 20 1:05 pm  · 
 · 

randomised

All this has given me a new idea. Someone posts something that points to Republican hypocrisy and we see if jla responds to denounce it, or to support it. 

 A few rules: Up until the point jla responds, people can place their predictions of whether he will support or denounce. You can't place a prediction on something you post. First to reply with the correct prediction gets to post next. 

Adding in a rule that you need to cite sources too. Also probably better to start a new comment for new issues rather than simply add to the replies.

Sep 11, 20 1:20 pm  · 
 · 

While we wait for randomised ... I'll throw some fuel on the fire. 

Religious freedom is guaranteed by the first amendment from being infringed by any law that congress would pass, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." A person's freedom to exercise their religion freely, does not enable them to create law making other people adhere to their religious creed. So if a person's religion teaches that abortion is wrong and/or that contraception is wrong ... fine. It means that congress cannot pass a law requiring them to get an abortion or use contraception. Doesn't mean we need to have a law prohibiting those things. For any person so religiously inclined, they can freely exercise their religion and abstain from having an abortion or using contraception. 

Same goes for what a religion might teach as the beginning of life. If someone's religion teaches that life begins at conception, fine. If they also believe that taking a life is bad, I'd extrapolate that they would abstain from getting an abortion. And I know, jla, that you are not trying to use a religious argument to define "personhood." I'm not saying your motives are religious in nature and I'll be fine giving you the benefit of the doubt. However, I'd wager that the vast majority of people's interest in defining "personhood," even if using a scientific rationale, is religious in nature to support their religious beliefs. 

To preempt the argument that the ACA infringes on a persons religion by making them provide for contraception for their employers. I call BS. Religion is by and large a personal and individual matter. Providing for a woman's healthcare is not infringing on a person's religion. It's a slippery slope if you start to think that it is. Next I'll say that my religion teaches that adultery is wrong so I shouldn't have to pay taxes that support any roads that are used by adulterers as they travel to and from their adulterous rendezvous. 

Additionally, the Supreme Court ruling that supposedly supported the religious exemption for the contraceptive mandate wasn't really decided on the grounds of religious freedom. Rather it was decided on whether or not the ACA allowed the administration to carve out the exemptions based on religious or moral grounds. It does according to a 7-2 ruling. "The Supreme Court’s analysis was limited to whether HRSA had administrative authority under the statute to carve out exemptions, and did not look to whether the administration’s exemption was mandated by the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. Thus, a future administration could potentially reduce the scope of this exemption," (emphasis mine).

Sep 11, 20 1:22 pm  · 
1  · 
Non Sequitur

EA, your patience for addressing nonsensical POVs is admirable.

Sep 11, 20 1:33 pm  · 
2  · 

I'm not disagreeing that the employment arrangement is voluntary, but there are aspects of employment that are regulated by law. Providing for healthcare is regulated by the ACA. Providing for minimum wage and working conditions are also regulated by law, etc.

Sep 11, 20 1:40 pm  · 
 · 

No one is regulating whether the muslim employer provides lunch. The ACA is regulating whether employers provide healthcare. I'm not aware of anyone challenging the ACA on the grounds of freedom of speech so ... what are you getting at?

Sep 11, 20 1:48 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

x-lax, you're standing in a field of sand that used to be your house and yet still condemn others for throwing stones. You engage in every fallacy there is and still find the time to call out others.

Sep 11, 20 1:50 pm  · 
2  · 
Non Sequitur

jla, like I wrote earlier, I'm not addressing your loaded questions because they are shit and not an actually useful or intelligent pov. Utter ignorance on your part.

Sep 11, 20 2:11 pm  · 
2  · 
SneakyPete

Yeah, I stopped playing made up games with children where the rules changed so the kid who was the biggest jerk would inevitably win when I stopped being a child. So until you stop being a disingenuous jerk I won't be entertaining your leading questions. You have fun, though.

Sep 11, 20 2:13 pm  · 
1  · 
Non Sequitur

My points stand even stronger now jla. You have quite a long road ahead if you think you're able to handle this "debate".

Sep 11, 20 2:33 pm  · 
 · 

That's a pretty tortured hypothetical there, and I don't really see the point in engaging with it. We don't need a hypothetical. Substitute "healthcare" for "free lunch," and the ACA for AOC's hypothetical "fresh lunch new deal" to be passed in 2030, and we can just talk about the ACA. Oh wait, we have already been discussing it.

Sep 11, 20 2:37 pm  · 
 · 

So the "progressive" idea that you're not accepting (I wasn't asking you to accept it, btw) is that the government is requiring employer-sponsored healthcare plans to meet certain criteria? Is that what you're afraid of because it sets a precedent for future abuse? Seems like the government requiring employers provide for safe working conditions and a minimum wage already set that precedent, no? What's the difference in mandating safe working conditions and mandating essential services are covered?

Sep 11, 20 3:02 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

I've reset the clock to zero. Let me know when you feel like acting the mature adult for a while and taking up my challenge (the one from yesterday that you ripped off). I particularly enjoy that you're passing off my challenge as your own. Do you do this in meetings with colleagues, too?

Sep 11, 20 3:04 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Your attempts at "fairness" extend to literally everything, don't they? Smells a lot like failure to me, though.

Sep 11, 20 3:25 pm  · 
 · 

Well per a lot of people's reasoning essential services includes care to prevent unwanted pregnancy. And as has been shown, preventing unwanted pregnancies is one of the best ways to prevent abortions. Simple reasoning there that eludes a lot of Republicans. No pregnancy = no abortion. They should be all over easy access to contraception. Their only complaint with it comes from a religious standpoint and as I stated earlier, I don't think they need to force their religious choices on others through legal mandates. That's not a constitutionally guaranteed right.

I'm starting to sense that your issue isn't whether contraception is considered essential though, it's whether employers should be mandated to provide plans that cover it. There's a solution to that too. Stop having employers provide healthcare ... problem solved. Then there is no issue if my employer is a religious organization or not. They don't need to be involved in my healthcare choices (just like they don't need to be involved in my lunch choices). If we learn anything from COVID-19 and the recession it has caused, I hope it is that we can separate healthcare from employment. Why is your employer paying for your healthcare if they can't be bothered to pay for your condoms?

Sep 11, 20 3:44 pm  · 
2  · 

What time is it in The Netherlands? Is randomised asleep? Should we just move on without him? Anyone else want to post the next Republican hypocrisy? Non ...? b3ta ...? You already mentioned Trump's golf habit ... I recall he had something to say about Pres. Obama playing the game too ...

Sep 11, 20 3:54 pm  · 
1  · 

Yeah, I'm not sure which either. Biden's plan isn't my favorite, but better, IMO, than the Republican's efforts to get rid of the ACA through repeal, court challenges, etc. and better than Trump's plan(?)

Sep 11, 20 4:40 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

Thanks for the clarification

Sep 11, 20 4:55 pm  · 
 · 

... so were you going to post something now that it has been clarified?

Sep 11, 20 6:16 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

Don’t think so.

Sep 12, 20 3:51 am  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Good idea. Wouldn't want to participate in calling out someone you blindly follow.

Sep 12, 20 1:39 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

Nah, just the digging through Balkinsian amounts of postings on my mobile is not something I look forward to...

Sep 12, 20 2:15 pm  · 
1  · 

I say NS gets to post the next. As a Canadian he's uniquely qualified to take an outside view of our political hypocrisy.

Sep 13, 20 2:38 pm  · 
1  · 
Non Sequitur

Thanks EA for the vote of confidence here, but I am honestly dumbfounded by almost everything I read about US politics that... certainly I'd be going purely off popular media than something I've spent time thinking about/researching.

Sep 13, 20 5:02 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

since this is an architectural site, I did see some Biden FLAIR on a lawn in upstate NY.  Dude get a better graphic designer.

Sep 11, 20 9:15 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

good question. let me look into it. with TRUMP its obvious, it's his name. The story I heard, he put his name on everything including elementary school on his lunchbox. Biden and Harris have this three (3) red stripe thing going. but what's bothered me is, I was maybe an hour from his hometown in PA and watched an old man yell at the flag and I couldn't figure what the fuck he was yelling at. I figured - local politician flair, but when I looked closer it was Joe Biden's signature and 2020, not clear...I'll find. Then in upstate NY the Biden sign I saw was on a black background, something about being kind, three horiztonal red stripes, but again NOT CLEAR who the fuck was running. Again, I think as architects, if we're going to talk politics lets discuss flair design...I'll post images shortly of what I'm seeing.

Sep 11, 20 9:58 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

what them graphics look like? I like Ike is too easy though. How do you roll with say Dukakis! (besides a fucking tank)

Sep 11, 20 10:10 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

this shit is stupid -

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2194/3895/products/joebidenflagdeisgnudpaetdimage_800x800.jpg?v=1591982885

Sep 11, 20 10:53 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

this makes sense, but I have not seen it anywhere, can't get it to the printers?

Amazon.com : GDRABO Joe Biden Flag - 2020 Biden for President Flag is  Designed with Biden's The Newest Logo Use Classic American Flag Colors is  The Democrats, Biden Fans Gift, Outdoor and

Sep 11, 20 10:54 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

can't even find half the stuff I find. lack or coordination...ok x-jla doing historic now

Sep 11, 20 10:55 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

I see the three (3) red lines here

Historic 2008 United States presidential election yard sign for Democrats  Barack Obama and Joe Biden Stock Photo - Alamy

Sep 11, 20 10:57 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

this one works, but haven't seen it like the TrUMp stuff

Biden/Harris Yard Sign - Team Joe Store

Sep 11, 20 10:59 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

.

Lot of 24 Vintage Cardboard ELECTION POSTERS Signs Rockefeller Carter Ford  | #1853347248

Sep 11, 20 10:59 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

.

1992 Governor Bill Clinton Political Campaign YARD Sign OLD RARE Vintage |  #249425287

so democrats like horizontal redlines

Sep 11, 20 11:00 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

too easy

Amazon.com: Rogue River Tactical President Bill Clinton Gore 96 Metal Tin  Sign Wall Decor Man Cave Bar President Election Democrat DNC: Home & Kitchen

Sep 11, 20 11:02 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

see republicans do it right, just make your name in ALL CAPS

2000 Political Lawn Campaign Sign George W. Bush Al Gore Presidential  Election | #1924408102

Sep 11, 20 11:03 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

you'll never win this way with this media infested culture

Campaign signs do battle at Pomfret corner - News - The Bulletin - Norwich,  CT

Sep 11, 20 11:04 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

.


Sep 11, 20 11:05 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

.

Presidential Election Memorabilia Bush Quayle 1992 Vintage Cardboard 2 Signs  | #1826115847

Sep 11, 20 11:07 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

.

110 Election Lawn Sign Photos - Free & Royalty-Free Stock Photos from  Dreamstime

Sep 11, 20 11:07 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

.

Trump 2020 Pack #1: includes YARD SIGN - STICKER & PIN (PLEASE SHARE ON  Facebook - Twitter - Instagram) GET THE WORD OUT! ⋆ Republican Legion

Sep 11, 20 11:09 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

it appears you have to put "flare" into it, whether it be red stripes or stars, you have to tag that with your name in all CAPS.

Sep 11, 20 11:10 pm  · 
 · 

I saw this one for Biden on a walk in my neighborhood taped up on the side of a mailbox.

Sep 13, 20 2:33 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised

That’s the best sign ever! Can you imagine that as a banner on stage at a political rally or on a t-shirt?

Sep 13, 20 5:04 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

The childlike enthusiasm and honesty of the simple pencil drawing just speak to me...it’s better than all those PR and advertising agencies have come up with!

Sep 13, 20 6:22 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

EA it also tells the mail and delivery people who to vote for.

Sep 13, 20 7:56 pm  · 
 · 

... and all the people going to the mailbox to pick up or drop off their mail-in ballots who to vote for. Location, location, location.

It has the red stripes and stars on it too. Just not the all caps.

Sep 14, 20 1:11 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

None of these signs, including the child-drawn one, depicts the correct amount of stars. Such blatant oversight...

Sep 14, 20 3:19 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

The individual accumulated knowledge of the human which created the Trump sign and the human who made the drawing on the side of the post box are roughly equal. I may be insulting the drawer.

Sep 14, 20 3:27 pm  · 
 · 

Ok, since rando and NS have both declined, I'll go again. Seriously though, I need more people helping me out. Otherwise, we get threads like this one when jla doesn't have something to keep him busy.

This one is pretty self-explanatory, but the idea that Trump's sons are attacking Hunter Biden is hilarious and the fact that the Republican party is fixating on Hunter's corruption, while completely ignoring the issues with Trump's own family is hypocrisy in it's finest form.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and...

If anyone has a better article, feel free to post it. I'm not really a fan of the way the Vox article is written, I think it's fairly loaded, but it's one of the easiest ways to post about the topic without finding a bunch of other sources as citations. #fulldisclosure 

Also, note I'm not defending Hunter Biden at all here. Just finding the hypocrisy in the moment. 

Sep 14, 20 3:30 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Hunter Biden is a global capitalist. I thought Republicans liked that.

Sep 14, 20 3:31 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Trump is not a nationalist. Trump is a Trumpist. The idea that he gives a shit about the USA except as it benefits him is a lie, as exemplified by his consistent inconsistency regarding enemies of the US.

Sep 14, 20 4:11 pm  · 
1  · 
Non Sequitur

so, how long until we see a Trump/Trump sign? Certainly one of his wanker offspring will join the campaign.

Sep 14, 20 4:15 pm  · 
2  · 

SneakyPete, I think it's your turn. Lots of things to choose from.

Sep 14, 20 4:42 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

I would like to yield my turn, I'm really trying to keep a positive attitude in meat space and this sort of thread hurts at a foundational level. I know that sort of admission is red meat for trolls, but I don't think I care any more. Troll away.

Sep 14, 20 4:54 pm  · 
 · 

I won't troll you for trying to keep a positive attitude. Instead, I'd recommend you put jla, rando, and probably a handful of others you regularly but heads with on ignore until you feel ready to jump back in. I guarantee you won't miss anything important. That or just take some time away from the site.

Sep 14, 20 5:05 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

Absolutely the right move.

Sep 14, 20 5:27 pm  · 
 · 

I'm pretty much done with the "game" at this point then. I could post more (national debt, voting by mail, golf, etc.), but I'm not really a big fan of the partisanship that this type of thing promotes. That was never my intent. It was fun while it lasted, but ultimately I'd rather discuss something rather than poke fun at any particular party or point out hypocrisy just for the sake of scoring points or something like that.

Cheers to jla for being a good sport.

Sep 14, 20 6:36 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised

“I personally can feel my body craving red meat, and although I try to minimize meat, sometimes eating a steak makes whatever shitty feeling I have go away.”


Like a junkie craving their shot of heroin, you are just addicted to meat x-jla :-) Just take it one day at a time, baby steps!

Sep 16, 20 1:01 pm  · 
1  · 
Non Sequitur

To be honest, you'd say the same thing about carrots if carrots where fucking delicious.

Sep 16, 20 1:03 pm  · 
 · 
archanonymous

Carrots are fucking delicious, just got to know how to cook them.

Sep 16, 20 1:11 pm  · 
3  · 
Non Sequitur

Pineapple is fucking delicious.

Sep 16, 20 1:23 pm  · 
1  · 
square.

can't argue with that.

Sep 16, 20 1:46 pm  · 
1  · 
square.

non, it's funny, and this sounds crazy, but i feel the same way about tofu (if done right). i used to not really like it, but after eating it enough and find out how to really cook it, i have cravings for it now, and the idea of a steak makes me queasy. it's hard to compete with our primitive evolutionary instincts that want more and more animal fat, which was necessary at one point, but we can see where that's taking us.. maybe it's time to move on to the next phase.

Sep 16, 20 1:48 pm  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

square, I make a killer tofu parm! It's simple, and awesome cold.

Sep 16, 20 2:04 pm  · 
1  · 
Non Sequitur

I am very much ignorant of tofu. Just not something I come across and certainly not something I've ever cooked with. Not dismissing it tho and might throw in a tofu option in our weekly meal kti/box thing next week.

Sep 16, 20 2:10 pm  · 
 · 
square.

i recommend eating it at several restaurants (like vegan chinese places, for example) first before you trying cooking it.. it takes some practice and can turn out not great.

Sep 16, 20 2:16 pm  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

texture, firmness and the flavors of the seasoning all matters in tofu.

Sep 16, 20 2:18 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

Thanks for the recommendation but my dinner experimentation during this shutdown made us discover that my wife is severely allergic to shellfish. We're not going to chance it with places that fry-up shrimp and whatnot.

Sep 16, 20 2:36 pm  · 
 · 
square.

not if they're vegan!

Sep 16, 20 2:40 pm  · 
1  · 
Non Sequitur

^missed that point.

Sep 16, 20 2:42 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

“ For me, food is not just a means of survival, but an important part of my culture and daily life. Asking humans to stop eating meat is just unreasonable.”

I personally disagree, killing animals is not culture to me, it’s a lack of being cultured, or at least something not worth clinging onto for dear life...we progressed as a species to a point where it is absolutely not necessary for our wellbeing or survival to be killing other living sentient beings just for our pleasure or our so-called culture.

Sep 16, 20 4:05 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

Must be a blue moon cause I agree with jla on this one.

Sep 16, 20 4:15 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

"While I’m as opposed to cruelty as ever, I no longer have a problem with death. Death is life, and nothing exists without it. The problem is scale, and the disconnection it confers. I also felt my previous, so-called vegan life wasn’t even vegan. Cars aren’t vegan. Phones aren’t vegan. Plastic isn’t vegan. Tubs of vitamins aren’t vegan. Protein bars, chickpeas, soya and hemp seeds – none of it is vegan, not really. It’s all the harvest of a political ideology that is causing the sixth mass extinction of species, one that is wiping out one habitat after the next and polluting the world around us, making the Earth uninhabitable for much of life – even ourselves." 

https://www.plough.com/en/topics/justice/environment/not-so-simple

Sep 16, 20 4:16 pm  · 
2  · 
square.

i understand the moral, philosophical debate here, but at the end of the day, there are always shades of gray. i can't stand this sort of binary thinking, and non-vegetarians are always trying to trap vegetarians/vegans with things like this. true, it's probably impossible to live completely vegan. but i would think not eating animals puts you more in-line with the goals of veganism than not.

the quote you posted is incredibly nihilistic in my mind, but echos the point that sure it's just easier at the end of the day to avoid the nuance and go all in. surprises me that jlaxax likes it because it affirms the notion that individual choices don't matter and that the system dictates everything. i tend to be somewhere in between: it's important to try to change this mass system perpetuating a mass extinction, but i better be damn sure i'm making individual choices that affirm that, or else i'm a hypocrit.

in regards to climate, eating less meat is better than eating more of it, and that's what i choose to do. arguing the labels is a distraction.

Sep 16, 20 4:34 pm  · 
2  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

I know vegans, do work, and I'm on the board of for a vegan non-profit. Most non-militant vegans are asking us to do, is to consider consuming less meat, and use fewer products developed from animals. Most of us, can do that, most choose not to, and that's the problem. No consideration.

Sep 16, 20 4:38 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

I agree with most of that, square. However I don't really find the sentiment nihilistic, just realistic. I think a bigger problem than people eating or not eating meat is people thinking a simple behavioral choice can solve structural / systemic problems. Not that the individual choices are bad, but they can lull one into a false sense of complacency by offering easy moral satisfaction (there's a very obvious fast food metaphor here). I know a lot of vegetarians & vegans whose lifestyle is worse both for the environment and for their bodies than my mostly-plant-based-and-obsessively-sourced diet. I don't think veganism is bad, but I also don't think eating meat is wrong. Like you said, grey areas. I generally reject prohibition. I opt for moderation.

Sep 16, 20 4:43 pm  · 
1  · 

I'm curious to hear people's take on Michael Pollan's writings on food and diets. The Omnivore's Dilemma is probably his biggest/most well known. I enjoyed, Food Rules, as a quick read with easily understood concepts about healthy eating. I haven't read the book, but I did watch his Cooked series on Netflix which I thought was pretty interesting and well done. 

Sep 16, 20 2:14 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

Cooked was fantastic. My wife is a big Pollan fangirl. 'Botany of Desire' is one of the best non-fiction books I've ever read. We have Omnivore's Dillema on the bookshelf and I keep meaning to pick it up.

Sep 16, 20 4:17 pm  · 
1  · 
thatsthat

Omnivore's Dilemma was truly eye-opening, but it is dense af.  (Food Rules was a much more accessible read.) Also I found the chapters in OD to be pretty long; IMO it would've been more easily consumed (pun intended?) if the material was cut into more, shorter chapters or edited down a bit. There is only so much I want to know about corn! His overall message though is very consistent across how work, both written and tv, and I wish more people were attuned to his ideas.

Sep 16, 20 4:27 pm  · 
 · 

It's been a while since I picked up Omnivore's Dilemma ... Food Rules too ... but I do recall liking both for different reasons. Where Food Rules favors brevity, simplicity, and common sense (all reasons I liked it), I also liked the depth in Omnivore's Dilemma. Like you say though, the overall message is consistent. I think his own summary from Food Rules is perfect, "Eat food, not too much, mostly plants.

I haven't read Botany of Desire. I'll have to add it to my list.

Sep 16, 20 4:39 pm  · 
2  · 
randomised

I love how you’re now upvoting your own posts x-jla ;-)

Sep 17, 20 3:44 pm  · 
 · 
square.

so sad.

Sep 17, 20 4:04 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

"..a fine Canadian..."

I swear to god if this is Jordan Peters... ahh damnit.

Sep 17, 20 4:55 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

I made it 1 minute and 15 seconds. I tried, I really did. What a bunch of nonsense drivel. He doesn't even define his own terms and then he invents definitions of post-modernism that bear little resemblance to postmodern philosophy or art to justify his moral panic as some sort of defense of rational thought. Peterson is a hack. I'll be back with receipts.

Sep 17, 20 5:02 pm  · 
4  · 
tduds

"How about watch first, then comment?" 

The problem with that is I've been watching and reading and digesting Peterson, and watching and reading and digesting counterpoints to Peterson, and reading and deflecting the trollish rantings of his quasi-intellectual twitter minions for 5 or 6 years now so it's frankly impossible for me to jump into this video as if it exists in a vacuum, and it would be foolish to try.

Sep 17, 20 5:05 pm  · 
4  · 
SneakyPete

CONSIDER THE LOBSTER THOUGH AMIRITE

Sep 17, 20 5:09 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

I *could* watch it and I probably *could* deliver a line by line rebuttal using easily googleable sources and the first half of a first year philosophy / poli sci textbook, but then I'd have to do it again in like 3 months when some other Lobster Accolyte posts another video and insist I judge it outside of everything else he's ever said. It's exhausting. He's burned through the more than enough benefits-of-the-doubt I gave him and so I'll just snidely dismiss it and go enjoy my afternoon.

Sep 17, 20 5:28 pm  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

"People, over property."

ALWAYS

Sep 17, 20 7:41 pm  · 
 · 

Sport Fishing Announcer: jla's got a bite, let's see if he can set the hook and reel him in.

Sep 17, 20 8:19 pm  · 
2  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

I'm going right at the boat.


Sep 17, 20 8:24 pm  · 
1  · 
awaiting_deletion

I tried watching this Canadian you speak of and for lack of intellectual intensity stopped watching, but what I don't get is why you lefties are so worked up, he's basically like a self-help guy for dudes. What's with the pschotic posting over like barely noticable commentary on life...it's def. not Nietzsche or anything radical. can someone explain why people get so emotional over this guy?

Sep 17, 20 8:37 pm  · 
2  · 
randomised

It is often about being confronted with some inconvenient truths that should force a person to change their views, yet the mind is actively resisting the process...or something, I don’t know.

Sep 18, 20 2:08 am  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

can someone point me in the direction of these "inconvenient truths that should force a person to change their views", like text or videos? the hype would make you think this dudes got some radical perspectives. (Canadian and radical, can't be, haha)

Sep 18, 20 5:55 am  · 
 · 
randomised

Ah darn it DTL, my reply was erased as I went into a tunnel...but to kind of get back to that, I don’t think he’s that radical, the reactions he’s been getting have radicalised. He’s just a figurehead of people that have held on to some Classical Liberal (not sure how to describe or translate it) ideas and with the world around them going into a more polarised binary modus operandi, suddenly became the center of attention. And he’s taken advantage of that, surfing the waves of contempt and ridicule that come his way...perhaps.

Sep 18, 20 2:09 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

Often conclusions are simplistic, regardless...but I have to say I didn’t get the urge to throw my computer out the window after watching me some Peterson, so that’s a plus, but maybe I just like the world mansplained to me by some middle aged white dude from Canada, feels comfy and familiair like a favourite t-shirt.

Sep 18, 20 5:30 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Quillette channels the key right-wing anxieties: the fussiness about modernity, the antipathy against civil rights activism and college students, the general hysteria about various “hysterias.” The publication’s writers have the knee-jerk tendency to describe any left-wing articulation about anything as “ahistorical,” with vague but nonetheless vigorous gestures toward Plato and glib but nonetheless fearful reassessments of Marx. And they agonize about all the same watchwords: “political correctness,” “cancel culture,” “wokeness,” “wrongthink,” etc. In fact, the distinctions among so many figures and forums—Quillette and ReasonNational Review and Breitbart, 4chan and 8chan, the Intellectual Dark Web and Gamergate, Shapiro and Milo Yiannopolous, Jordan Peterson and Alex Jones—have spent the Trump years delivering one long, unpunctuated screed in defense of “wrongthink.” [https://www.theringer.com/2019...]

"One problem with all of this is that Peterson’s history is just wrong. Long after Derrida and Foucault had embarked on their careers as postmodern thinkers, the leading public intellectual in France, Jean-Paul Sartre, was a committed Marxist. Even more awkwardly for Peterson’s narrative, Sartre — as with many socialists of the day — was both a Marxist and a critic of the Soviet Union." [https://jacobinmag.com/2020/04...]

"Ironically, Peterson’s critique of postmodernism is itself very postmodern. His description of postmodernism as a new form of “dialectical materialism” that exercises totalitarian thought control not only echoes Cold War polemics against Marxism but also certain tendencies within French postmodernism. These accounts, such as Lyotard’s, accuse the Enlightenment, Hegelian dialectics, and Marx of constructing “metanarratives” on top of an irreducibly complex reality. Peterson shares the French post-structuralists’ fear that reason lends itself to a logic of domination. Indeed, Peterson recapitulates Heidegger’s own influential rejection of the “Cartesian Self” as the launch of a new stage of civilizational nihilism." [https://jacobinmag.com/2018/02...]

And finally here's some juicy gossip: https://twitter.com/RationalDi...

Peterson likes to style himself as a dispassionate intellectual, but he is - at best - an extremely anxious and paranoid person whose delusions have inadvertently thrust him into the public consciousness (He is essentially only famous because of his temper tantrum over pronouns). What he presents as rationalism is his attempt to couch these anxieties into a philosophy with which it shares a superficial, if any, resemblance. His success relies almost exclusively on the alt-right, and so there is an incentive for him to curry favor with alt-right celebrities and devotees to further his own fortunes. Eventually this feedback loop of bullshit culminated in his weird 'steak only' diet and his eventual medically-induced (and ethically questionable) coma.

It blows my mind that anyone still takes him seriously.

Sep 17, 20 5:22 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

FWIW this post is the result of digging through some bookmarks and old posts for ~10 minutes. If I actually cared to do more research I probably could construct something more coherent but... meh. Naptime.

Sep 17, 20 5:29 pm  · 
1  · 

15 comments now trying to bait someone into a debate they don't want to have. You could try harder.

Sep 17, 20 6:37 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

Once again we're at an impasse based on the simple fact that we have different definitions for almost every term, making short hand impossible and necessitating the construction-from-scratch of a shared reality before we can even begin to debate the principles. That's why I took a nap instead of researching. It's just not worth it. As for "you spend a lot of time telling Me that you don’t have the time." ..I know. It's one of my bigger character flaws. I have a hard time saying nothing. Rest assured, though, my glib retorts take me 30-40 seconds tops, while a full-throated rebuttal would consume an hour or two in order to be worth the effort.

Sep 17, 20 6:39 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Gonna go practice saying nothing.

Sep 17, 20 6:39 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

"The rejection was to a law that made the use of prefered pronouns mandatory." It wasn't, though. Read the law.

Sep 17, 20 7:04 pm  · 
 · 

I'd give you that 1 of the 15 was due to an itchy iPhone finger. Try calming down and using your thumbs instead.

Sep 17, 20 7:23 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

any links on that or is all that in writing somewhere? I tried watching some youtube stuff....also, to ask again, but why all the emotional reaction? or is that just how people "discuss" these days on social media, all hyperbole and complete lack of understanding of the gravity of words (you know like throwing Nazi, Fascism, Marxism,etc...around like minor insults,  instead of just stating - I do not agree.)

Sep 17, 20 9:14 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

DTL - pure and simple exasperation is all it is. The idea that anyone would take Peterson seriously after he's spent the better part of the last decade showing time and time again that he is not serious deserves, in my opinion, some scorn.

Sep 17, 20 10:17 pm  · 
 · 

Serious academics still need to cite the not serious academics when they write serious papers to criticize the not serious viewpoints. The more not serious stuff you get published, the more seriously people criticize you and therefore cite you ... seriously.

Sep 17, 20 11:04 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

I could see the exasperation bit I guess and I've heard what was written above (tduds breakdown), but I just don't get the reactions in general, but then again don't get half the reactions on social media anymore. ... Watched the bit where he was trying to explain stuff to a journalist with an English accent (she was just not listening to him and seemed to have her own agenda, therefore essentially appearing dumb and JP appearing very detailed, like lawyer), then the video about "how he became famous" which I could barely bare watching, again like an angry college kid or something and JP in some strange Canadian accent just talking calmly. It's almost like angry people talking to a computer. Then I tried a lecture or two...and well, low energy computer talking so I just couldn't keep watching. (oh, but I hate psychology, I think it's for stupid people, so maybe that's why I don't get it?) I'll stick with philosophy and I also didn't get the whole "dark web" thing either. Sam Harris is a very rational person and calls out an ass backwards religion for what it is and somehow people forget religion is a choice, even an architect on this website doesn't get that (I would expect that kind of stupid thinking from a flat earther or something). Eric Weinstein a little off and I think totally off on science, can barely watch him speak sometimes....on the Marxist bit, I don't think anyone gets that anyway. I really don't think social media discussions should attempt discussing deep thinking topics...lots of buzz words and stupid emotions and yelling over each other...meh, going to bed, going to read some philosophy.

Sep 17, 20 11:06 pm  · 
2  · 
awaiting_deletion

that's the gist I got from the bit I watched between him and Rogan. also, isn't it the left's job to "rattle the foundations" and not the "rights", of have we mislabled ideologies now...to me the left was never an "ideology"...based on my nearly teenage daughters youtube/tiktok language I must be either completely out of touch now or NO ONE reads. lets see if I can find this often cited JP texts (something for the weekend), but as noted I don't like psychology and this would be why. the following - any and all problems posed and resolved in psychology can be resolved by thinking = philosophy and for the most part have been since the Greeks in the West and Hindus or Budhism (not same type of religions as the west). Lastly, the premise of psychology is there is always "a mental problem" with philosophy there is always "a thinking problem". In my world you're not insane, you don't suffer shit - you just haven't thought about it.

Sep 18, 20 6:00 am  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

slogging through this as you were so kind to post. so far I see it nothing more then an opinion on human behavior and I guess the first bit that could be offensive or not exactly totally plausible with regard to proof - the daycare to paranoid mothers to child molestation accussations, I'll guess I'll wait and see how one proves such things...

Sep 18, 20 6:15 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

here are my notes (this is still a simple lecture intellectually):

He is a psychologist that uses philosophical arguments or philosophers to talk about society in all its various classifications made up by people.

Psychologists assume you are not aware of your thinking nor conscious of it and accordingly you must have your life explained to you by them based on their assumptions and experiences.

He paints a narrative that is ultimately populous and within the discussions of populous thought - whether left or right, but is hardly deep thinking. Wrong about Heidegger. Totally misses Satre's thought and what Satre was trying to do towards the end.

I have no interest and I don't think he understands philosophy given how much of it he has read. I'm not saying he is wrong about Communism or about the prison test or whatever other academics he disagrees with (same people, different assumptions)..just wrong about his approach, mainly because he is a shrink and not a thinker or mathematician or an engineer or architect or someone developing artificial intelligence.

I actually think he is all over the place in this lecture.

Shrinks are stupid humans anyway, fun story:

I figured this out when I was 13 -

So in junior high I was one of the boys in a group of boys who insulted and bullied everyone and made them cry, quite often.

I was interested in this because it blew my mind words and concepts could cause such irrational behaviors in other humans.

My friends, some had issues with their mother others were just ego-centric kind of guys, but I was just interested in the thought-meaning-reaction process.

So I get called into the school counselors office. For about 2 hours, he and I go back and forth about thought and emotions. I'm mainly noting - it's your choice to be offended by words and I'm not responsible for how all those other kids felt.

He keeps trying to get me to call the girls mother (who was crying or whatever) and I keep asking him what is the purpose of that, her mother is not involved here.

The words and thoughts are between us and her, what is the purpose of the mother's involvement. Either way, he lost his mind at some point, calls the girl in.

The girl sits down and says - He's fine, he's actually quite nice, he stops when they go to far. The shrink totally pissed of kicks me out.

My buddies are in class, see me, minds blown I was in their for hours and asked what happened. I laughed, told them I convinced him he's an idiot and you know what the real assholes responses were "We just apologized to her mother and said we would never do it again."

Why is DSM-5 books sold like cigarettes behind a Barnes and Nobles counter?

Thanks x-jla, but no thanks, this guys a shrink (idiot).

Sep 18, 20 8:06 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

As the saying goes, Psychology is the study of first-year Psychology Majors.

Sep 18, 20 8:28 pm  · 
1  · 
awaiting_deletion

so you understand my skepticism. You can't use philosophy the way he does, that's all I'm saying. I'm not saying he is wrong on things, I just don't like the style.

Sep 18, 20 8:30 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

so, I'll tell you how naive and ignorant I am, the right is what is established and the left is what challenges, but the problem in certain spheres of life (i.e. hollywood, twitter, academia) the left is established and the right is not. in other words I agree with many of your points x-jla and JP is a rarity, because in this forum, this form of media, the left is the established or in simpler terms, the "oppressor". again, I'm like full Jack Derridar! so I don't give a fuck.

12 Things You Probably Don't Know About the Original Point Break | The  Inertia

Sep 18, 20 9:49 pm  · 
2  · 
awaiting_deletion

bomb ass beats - a serious counter culture dude with loops from Johnny Mnuemonic and what not...

[poetry] yes I remember when the racist, fascist, nazis - we're not, well you know, that loser internet kid with an opinion. that fag pussy cheerleader was not the nazi...like, just, the white dude with normal haircuts were nazis...but now it appears the entitle affluent brat who takes black people movements as moments to resist their rich ass parents as a means to signify they have an opinion - well they be the fascist nazis
[poetry finished].

Punk has become Normalized as Massive Oppressor....but I just don't see Blink 182 being so hard core -


Sep 18, 20 10:56 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

no. rbg, dead. trump wins.and whats my age again


Sep 18, 20 11:53 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

dude, relax. don't analyize me or shit, that's when I lose trust.


Sep 19, 20 12:00 am  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

here on the other side from my googling (apparently) and timely (last year covers the usual shit that blows up on twitter) around 14:30 min confirms I am indeed old and possibly.....the sniffling is terribly annoying, reading is always better.


Sep 19, 20 5:42 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Rest in Peace, RBG.

Sep 18, 20 7:46 pm  · 
3  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

New Justice. NO PEACE.

Sep 18, 20 7:47 pm  · 
 ·  1
awaiting_deletion

if you believe in God, he doesn't like you...

Sep 18, 20 8:10 pm  · 
 ·  2
awaiting_deletion

sorry, let me rephrase that...while you're yelling on social media, believing all the shit in the media, and angry about a strange man who calls all news fake, the most amazing thing may happen....so yes Sneaky if you believe in God, your God doesn't like you. I don't believe in anything, I'll go get my popcorn. Cheerio!

Sep 18, 20 8:32 pm  · 
1  ·  1

R.I.P. R.B.G.

I have a feeling I'm about to get very angry at Mitch and the rest of them.

Sep 18, 20 8:37 pm  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Fuck your feelings, not you EA, fuck your property; you get NO PEACE.

Sep 18, 20 8:45 pm  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Definitely fuck you, and your property.

Sep 18, 20 9:33 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

well yeah, it sucks to be on the wrong side of history (where is my DAMN JACKY DERRIDAR POPCORN!)

I believe Quondam has a cameo in this one?  the architect on the fire escape at 2:28.

remember fools, it's all chaos, no one cares how you feel.

...back to zoning.


Sep 18, 20 9:51 pm  · 
1  · 

jla, I gave your post a thumbs up, but I’m not holding my breath. Could be a while waiting for Trump to show decency.

Sep 18, 20 10:11 pm  · 
1  · 

I’ll also note her wish was not to be replaced until a NEW president was installed, not simply until the next term.

Sep 18, 20 10:12 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

EA, I've somehow known when some people will die (as an atheist its hard to explain) in my head (it's complicated)

RBG fought the force longer than I predicted (by 1 year for the record).

This is a one-off (in my head, you don't have to believe it, I don't either, but the last time I saw a psychic - she was uncomfortable!).

I like drawing plans.  ;)

she fought the coming storm...it's coming, wake-up and draw some plans ;)

Sep 18, 20 10:23 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

come on people..what is the orange man about to do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

read the wiki and listen! - the future  ;)

[but yes, just gloss over everything I write and delete. see you're normal, therefore you don't get it, no I get it, but do you?!?!?]

Sep 18, 20 10:36 pm  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Xlax, yeah, I don't care what a monarchist thinks. Toodles.

Sep 19, 20 11:16 am  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

remember when people could have different political views and be friends.  RBG and Scalia.  There was a time.  crazy times.

Sep 19, 20 8:19 am  · 
4  · 
Non Sequitur

One of my best buds, also an arch, is deep in the JP jive, gov agenticity everywhere, men are oppressed type popular sound bytes... yet that does not stop from our weekly beers. Also helps that I can crucify him on any of those subjects without breaking a sweat.

Sep 19, 20 12:19 pm  · 
2  · 

I’ve been thinking about this lately too. I’ve mentioned before that despite my issues with b3ta, if we met and talked in person, we’d probably get along just fine. I bring up b3ta only because we’ve had our moments here, but the same could be said for probably all of you. This was sort of my point in the “game” I had with jla earlier, to show that if we can cut through all the other stuff we probably agree on more than we disagree on. Adding to that, if we aren’t behaving like complete assholes from behind our screens and anonymity, we actually make more of an effort to get along than we do to continually fight. 

I also think it is encouraging to see people who are literally devoting their life and career to what they believe very deeply in, can find enough common ground with people who could be considered bitter rivals, to actually consider each other friends. You think RGB and Scalia didn’t think the stakes were high? No, they both knew, but they also respected each other and could manage to not just coexist, but to be friends.

Sep 19, 20 12:34 pm  · 
1  · 
curtkram

i think a core piece of someone like RGB and Scalia being cordial with each other is that they have to be able to accept they won't always get their way. sometimes the vote goes her way, sometimes his way, then they move on. especially in architecture i see a lot of people who are unable to do that because of the over-inflated egos. it gets to a point that if they don't get their way and everyone gives them attention as the best person in the room they'll almost throw a tantrum or get passive aggressive in a way that sabotages the project.

Sep 19, 20 1:35 pm  · 
2  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

There are core values, and things I'm willing to have conversation about; defund, looting, and 2nd amendment - while I am pro-control - I am willing to hear divergent thinking. But all of these issues, all, I'm willing to take the second chair, and listen to Black people on. As all of the most contentious issues are seemingly hitting Black Americans very, very differently. Entertaining trunts like JP, Alex, or any other fucking casual, intellectual racist; no.

Sep 19, 20 7:28 pm  · 
1  · 
awaiting_deletion

yes in person, we'd all get along, we're fucking architects. we're only badass on paper. destroy your ego is always the first step but most architects are to passive to clearly show their ego, which is annoying, but here on the 'nect they appear aggressive.

Sep 19, 20 7:55 pm  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Truth is, and I gather I'm not unique in this experience; we're all reluctant to have "hard" conversations with our friends, regardless of which side they're on. I have friends that are Cuban heritage, which they are more conservative, but they know how I feel, and I them. So, we play at the edges.

Sep 19, 20 8:00 pm  · 
1  · 
awaiting_deletion

/\ the edges are crossed in social media. your thoughts are fully exposed. in general I would delete most of what I write, that option doesn't exist here on the 'nect, since to me - although we're writing stuff here, these are clearly NOT thought out posts nor books so accordingly they are conversations like in real life, which are always fleeting and only effect your development. "hard" conversations are "hard" for a couple reasons. first you and your friends have to agree they are "hard" conversations. once you do that, they can be "uncomfortable", but often you find you're the same and you realize its the "system" or body of thought you are discussing. it is and always is the "system", really and then you and your friends decide as humans why you would agree or not...that's what smart people and supreme court justices do.

Sep 19, 20 8:10 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

I think this thread is finally worth reading. 

Sep 19, 20 5:44 pm  · 
3  · 
awaiting_deletion

what are you so afraid of?

Sep 19, 20 7:10 pm  · 
2  · 

Wasting time reading your BS?

Sep 22, 20 11:29 am  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Anitifada

I'm enjoying this podcast, and probably more where I am at the moment, as they offer, clarity.

Sep 19, 20 7:29 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

will I be put on some watch list if I see what is going on on that side?

Sep 19, 20 8:04 pm  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Dayumn! This second page was loooooooooooooooong!

Sep 20, 20 1:10 pm  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

The Cool Zone


Nice.

Sep 20, 20 1:00 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Good morning from the Anarchist Jurisdiction. 

Sep 21, 20 1:15 pm  · 
4  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Is that like, the kewl z0n3!

Sep 21, 20 1:27 pm  · 
3  · 
SneakyPete

Anachrist?

Sep 21, 20 2:28 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

Anna Christ.

Sep 21, 20 3:17 pm  · 
3  · 
Non Sequitur

Annanas?

baibaz/iStock via Getty Images

Sep 21, 20 3:28 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

Anal cyst?

Sep 21, 20 3:47 pm  · 
2  · 

I'm worried where this is heading . . .

Sep 21, 20 5:57 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

aaaand scene

Sep 21, 20 6:20 pm  · 
 · 
randomised


.

Sep 22, 20 2:27 am  · 
5  · 
citizen

I saw them back in '85. During the show I lost two teeth and a pint of blood, but got a great t-shirt (see above) and a hemp codpiece. So it worked out.

Sep 22, 20 3:23 am  · 
3  · 
gwharton

It's all fun and games until local political corruption and incompetence cause the federal government to cease all funding in your city.

Sep 22, 20 11:14 am  · 
 ·  2
SneakyPete

It's all fun and games until federal political corruption and incompetence enable the feckless executive to cease all funding in your city.

Sep 22, 20 11:54 am  · 
2  · 
gwharton

It's funny how entitled and privileged the blue bubble elites act, that they think they can just ignore federal law at will and allow their paramilitaries to violate resident civil rights with impunity.

Sep 22, 20 12:00 pm  · 
1  ·  1
SneakyPete

It's funny how entitled and privileged the federal thugs act, that they think they can just ignore civil rights law at will and violate resident civil rights with impunity.

Sep 22, 20 12:03 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

Which federal law? Please be specific.

Also please provide examples of civil rights that have been violated and/or the existence of "paramilitaries"

Sep 22, 20 1:14 pm  · 
1  · 
curtkram

maybe he's talking about that bundy family that took over a federal park? they're blue bubble elites right?

Sep 22, 20 6:38 pm  · 
2  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

I think Judge Smails forgets about States Rights, or is it only when states start restricting the rights of others, then it's "Don't Tread On Me"?

Sep 22, 20 8:08 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

How does zoning deal with Anarchist use groups?

Sep 22, 20 9:24 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Ammon Bundy did recently align with Black Lives Matter, so...

Sep 23, 20 12:12 am  · 
1  · 
gwharton

Hey b3ta, tell me more about this neoconfederate LARP thing you're into these days.

Sep 23, 20 11:27 am  · 
 · 
tduds

Still waiting on those examples...

Sep 23, 20 1:26 pm  · 
3  · 
SneakyPete

Hold your breath. Pro-lifers will definitely want you to live, so examples will appear quickly.

Sep 23, 20 1:30 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

Behind every great woman is a man who cooks dinner.

https://www.vogue.com/article/...

Sep 22, 20 5:39 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

Image may contain: 1 person, text that says 'He MOVED TO TOWN TO OPEN ICRO-BREWERY AND MARRY ASTRIPPER... He S FICHTING TO PROTECT THE CONSTITUITION! ORTLAND PORTLAND THE ANARCHIST JOREGON: JURISDICTION'

Image may contain: one or more people, text that says 'THEY TOLD HIM TO CUT HIS HAIR. THEY TOLD HIM TO GET A JOB. He MOVED TO PORTLAND INSTEAD. CLEAR EAR PORTLAN THE ANARCHIST ORTLAND REGON: JURISDICTION'

Image may contain: 1 person, text

Image may contain: 2 people, text that says '• EVEN IN AMERICA'S WHITEST CITY, BLACK LIVES MATTER. P POREGON: ORTLAND THE ANARCHIST REGON: JURISDICTION'

Image may contain: one or more people and text

by https://davidfwalker.com/

Sep 23, 20 12:18 am  · 
7  · 
awaiting_deletion

you'll have to dig through the weeds here at archinect, but maybe randomised will remember at least, but I think this david walker hangs-out here, we already suggested such artwork...


Sep 23, 20 6:23 am  · 
1  · 
awaiting_deletion

there was commentary by the Revolutionary Poet that confirms this prediction and the Bundy note above....the workflow here is Archinect invents, people browse it, a certain dumpster fire guy translates all this onto some #chan site (translates because I read they speak a funny language) and then it ends up in the publics pyschy later...just a suggestion.

Sep 23, 20 6:28 am  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

yes but then Ancient Shed noted the strange impression Italian Sci-Fi movie makers have of American culture...or wait IS THE USA THAT PREDICTABLE THAT AN ITALIAN WHO GOT OFF AT THE WRONG SUBWAY STOP IN THE BRONX COULD MAKE A MOVE ABOUT PRESENT DAY PORTLAND?!? (see Free Movies thread for this)


Sep 23, 20 6:35 am  · 
1  · 
gwharton

The dream of the 1860s is alive in Portland....

Sep 23, 20 11:28 am  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

As the holy mother would say: god damn-it those are fucking great!

Sep 23, 20 11:35 am  · 
1  · 
randomised

I remember...those were the days, good times! I even watched little mullet karate kid lookalike being a pseudo tough guy, great YT channel with all sorts of gems!

Sep 23, 20 12:52 pm  · 
1  · 
awaiting_deletion

start the revolution, or just remain American in a perfectly suitable environment for continuous ineffective revolutions - yay US!

now get back to drafting, revolutions are a weekend kind of thing, doesn't pay the bills.

Sep 23, 20 6:36 am  · 
 · 

I think the modern day revolutions have accomplished quite a bit of positive change. I think you don't see it because it's not directly improving your lives . . .

Sep 23, 20 4:33 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Music is great right now. You just gotta look in the right places.

Sep 23, 20 4:35 pm  · 
 · 

Equality for women, LGBTQ, races other than white, reproductive rights. There is still much work to be done but things are better than just five years ago.

Sep 23, 20 6:37 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

on music and culture and stuff most of you will like, much deeper than JP....was going to post in music, but will do here -


Sep 23, 20 9:11 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

where tduds? not on archinect!

Sep 24, 20 8:32 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Will Kentucky be an Anarchist Jurisdiction by Saturday?

Sep 23, 20 1:50 pm  · 
1  · 
gwharton
.
Sep 23, 20 2:15 pm  · 
1  · 
awaiting_deletion

Do anarchist tax? I mean if it's tax free like Florida, maybe it's worth planting a flag and a tent there?

Sep 23, 20 9:13 pm  · 
 · 

Seattle has no income tax, and Portland has no sales tax.

Sep 23, 20 9:41 pm  · 
1  · 

I took some time to read this piece in The Atlantic tonight. Not really sure what to say other than it got me worried about the results of the election. I remember the fight on Florida in 2000, though I was not all that aware of how everything was playing out. The article is speculative (hoping it remains so rather than predictive) but seems well researched and reported. Curious to see if others had read it and have thoughts to share.


The Election That Could Break America

Sep 23, 20 8:36 pm  · 
 · 

No one has any thoughts, or no one has taken the time to read it?

Sep 24, 20 4:49 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Your intro made me want to avoid it. My vote, while guaranteed to be cast, matters little, so getting upset is bad for my general well-being.

Sep 24, 20 6:41 pm  · 
1  · 

Everyday: I read it, and I've been in a noticeable panic ever since. And I can tell you that my cohort of midwest middle-aged moms are all in the exact same frame of mind that I am. We're terrified. We're hoping and clinging to the idea that someone, somewhere in power can make this right. I was, however, calmed a bit by this tweet:


Sep 24, 20 10:05 pm  · 
2  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

"Facts Matter" - That's SOOOOOO 201X

Sep 24, 20 10:21 pm  · 
 · 

Donna, the recent FiveThirtyEight podcast discussed the article for a bit. It was helpful as well. Still a little worried, but less so after listening.

You can listen to it here, or watch and listen to it below:

Sep 28, 20 12:41 am  · 
 · 

I posted the above last night. Then I read the NYT piece on The Donald's taxes, and I'm back to being worried again. Not sure if there is anything he won't try to get 4 more years to figure out a way to make more money off the presidency and get out of his debts.

Sep 28, 20 2:13 pm  · 
 · 
gwharton

It's all just media FUD. Complete bullshit from start to finish. Ignore it and you will be much happier with peace of mind.

Sep 28, 20 2:16 pm  · 
 · 

What about this one on expanding and packing the Supreme Court ... thoughts? Maybe this is exactly the intent of the article, but I used to think that it would be too radical of an idea to do this ... but he actually makes a good argument that, "Expanding the number of people who sit on the Supreme Court is a normal American solution to a problem that has happened before in our history." Makes it seem more plausible than some of the other ideas I've seen floated like impeaching Kavanaugh or implementing term limits. 

There is Only One Way Out of this Crisis: Expand the Court in The Nation.

Sep 24, 20 4:55 pm  · 
1  · 
citizen

I'll go. I already have the outfit.

Sep 24, 20 6:01 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

I could see that backfiring like the erosion of the filibuster which is currently biting us in the ass.

Sep 24, 20 6:40 pm  · 
2  · 
citizen

What could possibly go wrong?

Sep 24, 20 6:48 pm  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

I think it's great idea; like Elie said, they could 100 on the court, it'll only make it more representative of the country. The number is arbitrary, and no document says it needs to be nine.

Sep 24, 20 7:14 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

Until the Republicans take the Senate and the House and the Executive and pack it fullererer and then pass an amendment capping it at that number forevermore. Democrats only back down when going up against Republicans, remember. Their own caucus not so much, so they'll end up losing.

Sep 24, 20 7:24 pm  · 
 · 

They'd never get an amendment to cap it. It would never be ratified be enough states (only need 13 blue states to block it). There are 15 states currently under complete Democratic Party control, 19 if you don't care about the Governor (only the legislatures need to ratify it, right?). 

Plus, if the Dems really wanted to play they'd figure out a way to give DC and Puerto Rico statehood, split California into two (or more) states, and combine the Dakotas and the Carolinas to ensure continued control in the Senate (add blue senators, take away red senators). At some point in the game of "judicial appointment" chicken someone will flinch. Until then, let's embrace the absurdity.

Sep 24, 20 7:58 pm  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

All that sounds like fun, and all, but what we need to make sure doesn't occur, is this. The last time we found ourselves after the election flat-footed was 2000; we can't let that happen this time. We need to make sure the Dems have a fucking spine.

Sep 24, 20 8:29 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

/\ problem with being liberal (although beta I commend you for not being the stereotypical liberal, you have balls and a spine).

Sep 24, 20 8:35 pm  · 
1  · 
DOSE

dems, stall at all costs. then biden can nominate obama. his expertise is constitutional law, so he would be a natural justice. that is, if he still wants to work.

now, *claps hands* who wants to talk about religion?

Sep 25, 20 1:32 am  · 
1  · 
randomised

Funny, it was Biden that made those SCOTUS nominations political in ‘87 when he blocked the nomination by Reagan, making it about party politics...This shit show is all thanks to Biden, it will bite the Democrats in the ass, karma is a bitch...

Sep 26, 20 6:01 am  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Actually, 

"Within 45 minutes of Bork's nomination to the Court, Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) took to the Senate floor with a strong condemnation of Bork in a nationally televised speech, declaring:

Robert Bork's America is a land in which women would be forced into back-alley abortions, blacks would sit at segregated lunch counters, rogue police could break down citizens' doors in midnight raids, and schoolchildren could not be taught about evolution, writers and artists could be censored at the whim of the Government, and the doors of the Federal courts would be shut on the fingers of millions of citizens."

"At the close of the hearings, Biden won praise for conducting the proceedings fairly and with good humor and courage, as his 1988 presidential campaign collapsed in the middle of the hearings. Rejecting some of the arguments that other Bork opponents were making, Biden framed his discussion around the belief that the Constitution provides rights to liberty and privacy that extend beyond those explicitly enumerated in the text, and that Bork's strong originalism was ideologically incompatible with that view."

Sep 26, 20 6:37 am  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Yep, and based on everything you said; get ready for 15 Supreme Court Justices.

Sep 26, 20 11:39 am  · 
 · 
randomised
As Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, Senator Joe Biden presided over Bork's hearing. Biden stated his opposition to Bork soon after the nomination, reversing an approval in an interview of a hypothetical Bork nomination he had made the previous year and angering conservatives who thought he could not conduct the hearings dispassionately.
Sep 26, 20 1:29 pm  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Yeah. You forgot the part where he was running for president at the time, and when he dropped out, he moderated. My point, was to refute the idea that he had something to do with the "borking" of Bork. That was Kennedy. Not Biden. In fact, as you are all too well aware, he was also involved in Thomas as well, so let's ask how that went...

Sep 26, 20 2:04 pm  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Wait, so "stacking" and adding justices is "Death To America", but subverting The Constitution, with some ham-fisted idiocy, doesn't? Did you even read the damn thing?

Sep 26, 20 3:09 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

The dems with Biden “moderating” made the process political, so this is the result...

Sep 26, 20 4:11 pm  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

Nah. It's funny isn't it, how he was supposed to be a "conservative" and a "liberal" stooge, all within the span of three years...

Sep 26, 20 6:19 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

again, rando, you know way too much about US politics to be just Dutch. I don't get it?

Sep 26, 20 6:28 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

I don’t get it either...I wish I didn’t have to. But since the US is meddling in everything and everywhere I have to know what’s coming this way, the shit you flush ends up here sooner or later, better be prepared :-) I also lived and worked in New Amsterdam for a while and still have friends there.

Sep 27, 20 3:40 am  · 
 · 
randomised

Most people here only follow the narrative presented to them by the one direction they lean to, but I like to look at things from more than one angle. And about those stairs, they’re just steep and narrow to keep the Americans out! Kidding, they’re just like that to save space as those old houses like the Amsterdam centre used to be warehouses. Nice article on CityLab about those: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-15/the-history-of-amsterdam-s-canal-houses

Sep 28, 20 2:38 am  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

the lawn flare appears now equal.  Biden appears to have better graphics now, but still lacking.  Saw "Trump Country" again today sign and lawns matched...

Sep 25, 20 8:08 pm  · 
 · 
liberty bell

DTL.DWG is chris teeter, right? And somehow even more forehead-slappingly stupid than I thought? 



Sep 26, 20 4:21 pm  · 
1  · 
awaiting_deletion

Olaf Design Ninja actually, as a mod you should be able to figure that out, non? I googled, there is an architect by that name, does good work. Looks like in the real world rated quite well.

Sep 26, 20 4:33 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

I now see why you're butt hurt. that one liner above based on populous culture. did you know most of america believes this? I'm in NYC area and am literally 1 click from that dead Epstein dude, did you know he was an asshole, a bad client, and had an island with young women and supposedly a democratic president went there a lot....I hope you understand why popular culture thinks my statement. now slap your head, dear, and understand i'm only reporting to you the cultural facts of your country, dear.

don't be an idiot. don't choose a side.

Sep 26, 20 7:15 pm  · 
 ·  1
SneakyPete

Olaf / whatever / Chris utilizes random noise and hubris on the level of Ricky B, but with less interest in learning anything.

Sep 27, 20 1:35 am  · 
1  · 
awaiting_deletion

correct. if it's not about architecture and is based on very limited real world knowledge, you can literally link all the laws everyone is discussing above, I've learned from the master, Ricky - Spam post.

Sep 27, 20 7:48 am  · 
 · 

Wait, I thought Olaf was Chris? Chris/metamechanic could be a huge pain in the ass but smart - but if Olaf/DWG aren't Chris I don't want to drag Chris into it. Since I'm supposedly an all-powerful mod I guess I *could* just hide all of DWG's posts until I figure it out but the truth is I have no way of finding out the real identities of anyone on here. Mods aren't all-powerful.

Sep 27, 20 11:45 am  · 
 · 
randomised

Not sure why one would post someone’s real name here if they never go by that name on the forum. Isn’t that like some kind of unwritten rule or archinect etiquette?

Sep 27, 20 12:15 pm  · 
 · 
curtkram

if his posts need to be hidden, hide them. if they don't, then don't. it doesn't matter if he has a different name offline does it?

Sep 28, 20 8:59 am  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

but DWG likes belgian triples … so that counts right?


Sep 28, 20 9:07 am  · 
2  · 
randomised

curt, that was not my point...

Sep 28, 20 9:44 am  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

everyone relax. I haven't bothered reading the terms and conditions for posting on archinect. The mod's may very well be allowed to just put names on accounts and call them out, have you read it? let's say it's slander, spinning a one liner joke that has truth it (yes I know someone who went to Epstein's island a few times and I know high flying democrats, whatever)....point is this - reddit for architecture discussion sucks, twitter for architecture discussions sucks, one of my favorite people to discuss architecture is either banned from archinect or refuses to join, all other design sites are boring in discussion with limited freedoms, and in general left-wing(ish) leaning political sites are much more open to intellectual conversations, so yeah you're going to piss people off here occassionally...lastly, the young left has somehow become puritanical....anyway I'm only allowed Belgium Tripels these days and yes most of what I write here does not reflect it's author. sure I could figure out who everyone is, lives, etc... but who has time for that?

Sep 28, 20 10:07 am  · 
2  · 
square.

what?

Sep 28, 20 11:02 am  · 
 · 
randomised

I'm relaxed :-) just found it odd that a person's real name is being used when that person is not even using that name here any more. When Chad was using b3ta's real name at some point because b3ta was posting under his real name, some people were making a big deal about it. Just thought to bring it up, that's all...

Sep 28, 20 11:03 am  · 
 · 

Because b3ta couldn't keep track of his various accounts and posted in his real name thinking it was his anonymous account. If I recall correctly rando you where on of those who was upset . .

Sep 28, 20 1:03 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised

I was not upset, had a very entertaining and lively discussion about naming recipients of pro-bono design work for the entire world to see...to me it felt like publishing a list of recipients of food stamps, which is kind of degrading in my opinion, especially when gender and ethnicity are involved. Still, in my opinion ;-)

Sep 28, 20 1:13 pm  · 
 · 

Naw, you got upset about it.

Sep 28, 20 3:27 pm  · 
1  · 
awaiting_deletion

it appears this is not music, it's an opinion. my bad, I put it in the wrong thread.

I'll post it here

(remember kids, it isn't us fucking with us, it's them)

Sep 26, 20 8:18 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

Ah yes, opinions, like there are One In A Million of those

Sep 27, 20 12:17 pm  · 
1  · 
awaiting_deletion

yeah don't link that G'n'R song, that won't end well.

Sep 27, 20 12:29 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

The first two lines of that spoken intro were my dad's voicemail message for years. He thought it was the funniest thing. He wasn't wrong.

Sep 28, 20 10:43 am  · 
2  · 
awaiting_deletion

guessing you dad got it from Cool Hand Luke and not G'n'R (where I first heard it).

Sep 28, 20 6:05 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Yep but he likes both.

Sep 28, 20 6:32 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

So who's watching the shitsho- I mean "debate" -  tonight?

Sep 29, 20 2:46 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

The Comedy?

Sep 29, 20 3:36 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

Ted Turner v. Rupert Murdoch

Sep 29, 20 4:56 pm  · 
 · 

I'm going watch but turn it into a drinking game. . .

Sep 29, 20 4:58 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Eh I'd recommend the film instead.

Sep 29, 20 6:30 pm  · 
 · 
square.

biden will win in a landslide. the polls have been adjusted to reflect the shortcomings of the 2016 polls. if anything, they might be over compensating in the direction of trump, and everyone is afraid to call it like it is. if you stop going by media bs and look at all of the polls, aka data, across the board, it's very clear that trump is losing, and badly. the only way he will win is by pulling some illegal power grab or the rnc tossing ballots, which imo is all talk.

but you can keep believing the narrative the media is feeding you, which is surprising coming from you.

Sep 30, 20 11:59 am  · 
1  · 
gwharton

I'm old enough that I remember the polls in October 2016 saying Hillary was going to win by a landslide and Trump had almost no chance of winning at all.

Sep 30, 20 12:08 pm  · 
 · 
square.

and i'm old enough to remember that the 2012 election was supposed to be close, and obama won decisively. if you read my post, you would have seen that all the pollsters have heavily adjusted their methods based on 2016. you can choose to ignore the facts of the data, but you're choosing to fall in the same trap people fell for in 2016. seeing these things based on prior assumptions, aka the last election, is nearly certain to be incorrect. currently the narrative is heavily skewed based on the problems of 2016. the data say otherwise.

if you have data to refute this, would love to see it. but everything you're saying is anecdotal.

Sep 30, 20 12:12 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

I'm honestly afraid to make predictions, but I'm getting the sense in this thread that jla is so skeptical of the "MSM" narrative that he's disregarding blatant truths because he heard it from them & not someone else (who is also saying it, because it's blatantly true). At some point skepticism becomes self-delusion. Verify information, don't dismiss it.

Sep 30, 20 12:19 pm  · 
1  · 
square.

the irony is that he is buying into the "don't believe polls" narrative that is overwhelming popular in the msm. i being a little bullish here, but i think dismissing the polls today based on past errors, while ignoring that the polling being done today is both entirely different and painting a different picture, is ignorant.

Sep 30, 20 12:21 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

Also invoking the 2016 election without also paying attention to the 2017, 2018, and 2019 elections is ignoring large trends in turnout & electorate. The president does not exist in a vacuum.

Sep 30, 20 12:23 pm  · 
1  · 
square.

also, gwharton- the polls were not predicting a landslide win electorally in 2016, they were predicting that a clinton win overall was highly likely, which ended up being wrong. most polls from an electoral perspective painted a closer picture than 2012 (336-212 is closer to landslide territory than 302-235, which is roughly what was expected in 2016).

Sep 30, 20 12:25 pm  · 
 · 
square.

right tduds, people are choosing to ignore the negative partisanship of this election, which the midterms showed was heavily in favor of democrats. if there is any recent election that is the best to use as an interpretation, it's the closest one that just happened. not that it should decisively predict anything, but only using 2016 and conveniently ignoring 2018 is a fallacy.

Sep 30, 20 12:26 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised

‘don’t believe the polls’ is as msm as ‘don’t believe the msm that say ‘don’t believe the polls’’

Sep 30, 20 12:33 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

What is that reason? Genuinely curious why you think they're bs.

Sep 30, 20 12:41 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

x-jla, even if you reach those conclusions by yourself, it is still the MSM narrative of one half of the spectrum...just the other half. But what if all you heard and saw didn’t translate in a Trump win this coming November, what’d you do, accept it or reject it?

Sep 30, 20 12:58 pm  · 
1  · 
gwharton

There are a few reasons the polls may not be that reliable, for the same reasons (only more so) that they were in 2016. High on that list is that most of the polls are weighting D+10 or more on assumptions of turnout that don't appear to have any basis in reality, when during the primary Trump saw unprecedented turnout for an incumbent President. The same thing happened in 2016. Actual results will likely be more like a dead heat or possibly D+1. So if you see a poll weighted more than that in either direction, it's bullshit.

Sep 30, 20 1:00 pm  · 
 · 
square.

what about 2018? the polls all underestimated that number of seats dems would pick up in the house.

Sep 30, 20 1:57 pm  · 
 · 
gwharton

2018 was somewhat similar, actually. The D+ weighted polls all significantly overshot. They were predicting a much bigger D majority in the House than actually materialized, and a D Senate, which didn't happen.

Sep 30, 20 1:58 pm  · 
 · 
square.

jla, biden is not hillary. there is much less visceral hatred for him, and much more so for trump this time around. trump is no longer an agent of change or a protest vote, he IS the establishment right now. that's what i mean by negative partisanship, and it's what will flip this election on him. thinking this election is exactly like 2016 is why pundits and the msm were so wrong about 2016.

Sep 30, 20 1:59 pm  · 
 · 
square.

not true gwarton. everyone was predicting 20-30 seats picked up, and they ended up picking up 41. 538 was actually pretty spot on with 39 (accurate polls!), just a few less. not sure where you're getting your data- again, would love to see it.

https://projects.fivethirtyeig...

Sep 30, 20 2:06 pm  · 
 · 
gwharton

538 changes their poll aggregates on a daily basis, derived from a black-box model they won't share with anyone. A month or more before the election, the D+ polls were predicting much bigger gains in both houses than materialized. 538 did the same thing with the 2016 election too. They do this constant revision thing ostensively so they can be "up to date", but really they are just obscuring the record of how wrong Silver has been when he gets outside of his sabermetrics specialty.

Sep 30, 20 2:12 pm  · 
 · 
gwharton

To be clear, I am not suggesting the polls are either right or wrong. I'm saying they are mostly bullshit and nobody really knows what's going to happen. Anybody who says otherwise is lying.

Sep 30, 20 2:17 pm  · 
3  · 
square.

agreed- which is why i'm saying the media consensus that you shouldn't believe the polls and there is a secret trump vote should be treated with equal skepticism. i'm arguing it because it is the overwhelming consensus.

in terms of 538, they were pretty consistently calling for 239-244 for months?

Sep 30, 20 2:32 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

I follow your line of conclusions but I don't agree & don't see anything beyond your internal conjectures to buttress any of what you've concluded. As they saying goes, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

Sep 30, 20 3:43 pm  · 
1  · 
square.

my anecdotal friends and family, who are also diverse, and living in this real world, disagree. doesn't mean anything. what's telling is your opting out of voting, which speaks volumes.

Sep 30, 20 4:23 pm  · 
 · 
randomised

fair enough x-jla, I personally wouldn't sail on the info coming from my bubble(s).

Sep 30, 20 5:02 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

"what's telling is your opting out of voting" 

"I’m voting for Jorgensen" 

Potato, Potahto ;)

Sep 30, 20 5:48 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

No it's not. Our system of first past the post voting got us there. The insistence on putting a disproportionate amount of effort into fielding a quixotic presidential candidate rather than building a robust party infrastructure is what's keeping us there. And even if they did that, the result would be a different two parties, not three or four.

Sep 30, 20 7:04 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

In effect the place for this is the primaries. There are plenty of factions, caucuses and coalitions *within* the two major parties who are all vying for majority control of the party & therefore a greater say in the party platform and nominations. 

My opinion is that voting for president is, in essence, the single least important piece of political action in America. So many other things need to happen before the major party candidates get to the general election, and all of those are 1) easier to influence, and 2) more about promoting systems than individuals. The way I see it, voting for the "lesser evil" of the two major nominees and fighting like hell in local races, ballot initiatives, and constitutional changes does more to advance a third party agenda than putting a single iota of your limited time towards a 100% unwinnable protest candidacy. 

Just my 2 cents.

Sep 30, 20 7:07 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

A competitive third party will never be voted into existence. A multi-party democracy can only be cultivated by changing the way we elect our government.

Sep 30, 20 7:08 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

I can support that. I came up in a bizarre time when Ross Perot somehow managed to get into the debates and so my foundational early childhood idea of a "normal" Presidential Debate is one with 3 people. 

Conversely the recent new normal of like 25 candidates on the primary stage is also ridiculous. Give me 5, 6 tops.

Sep 30, 20 11:21 pm  · 
 · 
square.

i would love 4 parties: left, center left, center right, and right. but the reality isn't there, and voting for third party candidates without the infrastructure, like tduds says, is the same as throwing away your vote.

Oct 1, 20 8:53 am  · 
 · 
gwharton

Given the way the US political system is structured, there is no way more than two parties at a time are ever going to be simultaneously viable. There have been a few periods in our history where there have been more than two major parties on the ballot. They don't last because that situation is not stable. So the extras all either merge or die.

Oct 1, 20 11:31 am  · 
1  · 
gwharton

And, in case you were wondering, Trump's takeover of the GOP in 2016 is exactly what the successful rise of a third party in the US political system looks like. The same thing is probably going to happen to the Democrats over the next four or so years, though they may fracture into two or more parties first.

Oct 1, 20 11:33 am  · 
3  · 
square.

right. have to dream sometimes. never say never! e.g. we might see some new states within the next 4 years..

Oct 1, 20 12:26 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

"i would love 4 parties: left, center left, center right, and right." 

I'd contend that all 4, and more, exist within the larger two party structure we currently have.

Oct 1, 20 1:50 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

If we're being hypothetical - eliminate the "presidency" altogether. Make Commander in Chief a cabinet level position, along with Senate President (aka VP in the current system) and make it part of an Executive Council along with the various Secretaries.

Oct 1, 20 4:19 pm  · 
 · 
b3tadine[sutures]

I watched My Octopus Teacher.

Sep 30, 20 11:37 am  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

I'm glad I watched it after I had barbecue octopus.

Sep 30, 20 8:25 pm  · 
 · 
square.

i refuse to eat octopus, even though i eat other seafood. as said, they're too smart.

Oct 1, 20 9:04 am  · 
1  · 
snooker-doodle-dandy

I watched the Shit Show!


Sep 30, 20 1:42 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

I'm sorry.

Sep 30, 20 3:43 pm  · 
 · 
proto

I watched it...not going to watch the next ones...what an embarrassment as an american

gonna sign up to do call lists in other states to encourage voters to use their right to vote

Sep 30, 20 3:51 pm  · 
2  · 

Watched it. I called Trump a runt but with a 'c'. I've never said that word before as it's the most vile insult I can think of. My wife just looked at me and said 'yeah he is'.

Sep 30, 20 4:05 pm  · 
2  · 

I watched it too, though delayed (I recorded it because ... kiddo's bedtime). I didn't even know there was an option to watch a debate. The debate is what I was hoping to watch, but apparently it got bumped from all the networks so they could air the shit show instead. Happiest point of the night was when I turned it off. No, I take that back. I was happier putting my kid to bed.

Sep 30, 20 5:00 pm  · 
1  · 

I liked it when Biden told Trump 'oh shut up, man'. :)

Sep 30, 20 5:09 pm  · 
1  · 
SneakyPete

I liked it (at a visceral level that I am not proud of because it's why Trump is President) when he called Trump a clown.

Sep 30, 20 7:40 pm  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

I love that he called that fuck a clown.

Sep 30, 20 8:23 pm  · 
 · 
tintt

Joe and Don, lol.

Sep 30, 20 9:09 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

lawn flare up date, we're now probably at 50/50 and I saw a "Q" sticker on a car today (now that I know what that is in more detail, haha)

but this one is the winner, was driving to fast to take pic

Any Functioning Adult Yard Sign Garden Election Sign Yard image 0

Sep 30, 20 9:54 pm  · 
 · 
tintt

Those are all over my neighborhood.

Sep 30, 20 10:11 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

some smaaht neighbors.

Sep 30, 20 11:28 pm  · 
 · 

this has been one of the best takes I’ve seen today (full disclosure, I’ve mostly been avoiding it today, but regardless this was funny) ... just wait through the first part if it's not your thing initially

Sep 30, 20 11:58 pm  · 
3  · 

Weird Al, 2020.

Oct 1, 20 10:28 am  · 
 · 
tduds

Did you know Weird Al has an architecture degree? Probably the most successful Architecture grad in history...

Oct 1, 20 1:48 pm  · 
7  · 
awaiting_deletion

Thought he dropped out?

Oct 1, 20 9:30 pm  · 
 · 

Pulling this out of the replies above for further discussion: 

Re: political parties and how many there are and the dream of having more than two dominant parties ... I agree on all major points so far. 

My question: What would it take to adapt the current system to allow for more than just the dominant two to have some viability? 

Some potential ideas for potential discussion, not in any particular order and not necessarily taken individually nor in a group: Getting rid of electoral college (would require constitutional amendment)? Nullifying electoral college in favor of popular vote (see National Popular Vote Interstate Compact)? Ranked choice voting (local, state, and/or federal levels; watch Maine's use of this next month for the presidential election for the first time)? Allocating each state's presidential electors based on plurality vote in congressional districts, and the others by statewide plurality vote (like Maine and Nebraska rather than statewide winner take all the other 48 states and DC do now)? Others?

Oct 1, 20 3:02 pm  · 
 · 
gwharton

We would need an entirely new Constitution and system of government. That's not going to happen without a civil war, and maybe not even then. It's partly a matter of structure, and partly a matter of scale. At this size and composition, our country is not governable by a democratic multi-polar party structure.

Oct 1, 20 4:58 pm  · 
 · 
curtkram

Plenty of countries form coalition governments. It wouldn't even be hard.

Oct 1, 20 7:13 pm  · 
 · 
proto

ranked voting seems like it would solve at least the issue of voting for the least common liked candidate

Oct 1, 20 5:16 pm  · 
1  · 
gwharton

All ranked voting does is turn two-party contests into one-party states.

Oct 1, 20 5:19 pm  · 
 · 

I'm not following that logic gwharton. Care to elaborate, or point to something that supports your statement?

Oct 1, 20 5:24 pm  · 
 · 
gwharton

The math of how RCV works guarantees two things: 1) there will never again be another majority-vote consensus winner in any election, and 2) the candidate who can mobilize a unified minority faction the most effectively will always win. This both dramatically increases partisan corruption, and special interest blocks will control our electoral process even more than they do now, to the point where there are never any alternatives allowed again. RCV is a terrible idea which has had bad results everywhere it has been put into practice in the USA. The only people advocating for it are those same minority special interest groups who stand most to gain total control over it.

Oct 1, 20 5:37 pm  · 
 · 
gwharton

As an example of what I mean by that, in a 2010 race for San Francisco Board of Supervisors (City Council), after 20 rounds of tabulation, among several candidates on the ballot, there were 9,608 exhausted (discarded) ballots (ballots where none of the marked choices were among the final two), whereas the winner garnered only 4,321 votes. The victor took fewer than 25% of the total votes cast, and a majority of the votes cast were not counted at all. This is a relatively common outcome with RCV.

Oct 1, 20 5:40 pm  · 
 · 
gwharton

In reality, the only way RCV would not regularly disenfranchise large numbers (and even majorities) of voters would be if, after ever round of votes was counted, the remaining candidates went back to the public for another vote rather than doing the ranked-choice virtual runoff which creates all these problems. But if we do that, we quickly run into massively-cumbersome voting process and voter fatique. We already have way too many elections to start adding more. Our current primary system is set up to deal with all of that on the front end rather than the back end.

Oct 1, 20 5:45 pm  · 
 · 
curtkram

sounds like they got the more moderate candidate that appealed to more people in San francisco. If we get rid of 2-party primaries and let people choose from a broader range of candidates that could help reduce the polarization we have now.

Oct 1, 20 7:23 pm  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

I love RCV. Works well in Minneapolis. Forces the candidates to actually work for my vote, and gives me a couple of options for who I'd prefer, and if my second winds up garnering more votes, I don't feel like my vote was wasted.

Oct 1, 20 9:37 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

this is what a sane country looks like -


Oct 1, 20 9:46 pm  · 
 · 

I assume your example is the 2010 election for SF District 10. It seems like an outlier rather than the norm, but probably an issue anytime you have 21 candidates on the ballot. Without RCV, on that particular election, you would have had the winner being a candidate with only 2,137 votes compared to a candidate that eventually got 4,321 votes. That candidate that was leading with the initial tally only ever got up to 3,201 before they were eliminated. So I don't know that you could make any type of claim that more people wanted that candidate over the eventual winner and it would have been better without RCV. 

Are there ways around that in a traditional system? Sure you could have a run off with the top two candidates or something like that, but isn't that essentially forcing people to pick a candidate they don't like, or sit out the election? 

The portrayal that an exhausted (discarded) ballot is a bug of RCV doesn't really hold up either. Voters could have included the eventual winner on their ballot but chose not to. Isn't that like if they had stayed home and not voted for that candidate anyway? In any given election only a fraction of all eligible voters participate. Those who don't participate have already exhausted their ballot. 

The same thing would happen in a run-off election of the top two. Those who don't like either candidate (presumably those who would leave them off their RCV ballot) would stay home and "exhaust" their ballot. In the 2010 election for SF District 10, the eventual winner wouldn't have even been in a run-off election among the top two. 

For some different context, the 2016 presidential election had roughly 138 million voters (58.1 percent of estimated eligible voters) show up and vote. Some quick and rough math indicates there were roughly 237.5 million eligible voters (138 is 58.1 percent of 237.5). Of those only 63 million (I'm rounding up for Trumps benefit) voted for the winner. Some more math: (63 / 237.5) * 100 = 26.5 percent of the vote. So really only around a quarter of people who could have voted for Trump, actually did vote for him. It's even worse if you consider the primary process and the smaller fraction of voters that help choose who is on the final ballot. 

While different scenarios, if your argument against RCV is that there might be cases where only a small portion of the electorate actually ends up voting for the winner ... I'd ask how is that different than the current system?

Oct 2, 20 1:16 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Portland has a pretty good system for their local elections. The primaries are nonpartisan, so anyone can vote for any candidate. If a candidate gets a clear majority in the primary, they win. If no single candidate gets >50% of the vote, the top two advance to a runoff on Election Day in November. So, sort of what gwharton suggested. It's not exactly ranked choice, but it's a huge improvement over enshrined partisanship.

Oct 2, 20 3:38 pm  · 
 · 

tduds, it sounds like Portland has adopted a "top-two" nonpartisan blanket primary system for local elections that WA and CA use for most of their elections. The top-two primary election process is appealing, but I also think it can lead to a candidate winning even if a larger coalition could have formed around a third-party candidate. If a pair of extreme partisans, one D and one R, are in a primary a bunch of others where one is a generally well-liked (but only for second choice) centrist candidate, the centrist candidate could end up winning in RCV, but would probably be eliminated in a top-two system. Look at the results of the 2010 SF District 10 election. The candidate who won through RCV, and is (arguably) the most agreeable by the largest coalition of voters, wouldn't have made it to the general election in a top-two primary system.

Oct 3, 20 1:15 am  · 
 · 

Too slow on getting the link for the above. Should have been "top-two" nonpartisan blanket primary above.

Oct 3, 20 1:23 am  · 
 · 
tduds

That's certainly a possible hypothetical, depending on the voting demographic. Portland is famously a liberal bastion so what you end up with more often than not is two left-leaning candidates in the November runoff.

Oct 5, 20 1:04 pm  · 
 · 

That is the more likely outcome, but not always the case depending on how many candidates there are that could split the left-leaning vote. There was an example in that link above where the 2016 race for state treasurer in WA state had 3 Democratic candidates splitting the primary vote which left the 2 Republican candidates at the top to run-off in the general election. Democratic candidates had a larger share of the total votes in the primary (by something like 40,000 votes), but couldn't put any one candidate in the top two to advance to the general election.

Oct 5, 20 1:58 pm  · 
1  · 
liberty bell

OMG on NPR just now I heard Amy Coney Barrett’s actual voice for the first time are you fucking kidding me?! She’s even more whiney than Kavanaugh. JFC.

Oct 13, 20 10:31 am  · 
3  · 
SneakyPete

But she has three names and a womb. That means she may as well be RBG, right?

Oct 13, 20 11:43 am  · 
1  · 
randomised

Trump’s re-election?
https://nypost.com/2020/10/14/email-reveals-how-hunter-biden-introduced-ukrainian-biz-man-to-dad/


But more scary is this:
https://nypost.com/2020/10/14/facebook-twitter-block-the-post-from-posting/


Interesting how Trump was impeached over digging into this...

Oct 14, 20 4:56 pm  · 
 ·  2
tduds

"Trump was impeached over digging into this..." 

He wasn't, though.

Oct 14, 20 5:12 pm  · 
2  · 
square.

fake news? gop report = "no wrongdoing"

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gop-report-wrongdoing-biden-son-ties-ukraine-firm/story?id=73192146

next. if you want to talk about candidate's children's shady deals with foreign governments, there's plenty in the trump family to dig through. multiple kids, in fact! no one really cares though.

do you know americans really care about? the fact that over 200,000 people have died from a virus that the president intentionally downplayed and still has no plan for addressing.

Oct 14, 20 5:23 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

"Possible"? Yes. 

"Probable"? Ehh. 

"Relevant"? Not really.

Oct 14, 20 5:58 pm  · 
1  · 
b3tadine[sutures]

The battle royale going on in j-lax head must be amazing! Everyone seeing those emails from Dollar Store Nosferatu stated explicitly that they were fakes.

Oct 14, 20 6:36 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

A pop tart is also a type of sandwich.

Oct 14, 20 6:58 pm  · 
1  · 
randomised

It is totally different when Trump hires his kids to work for him, all out in the open, as opposed to Biden pressuring others to hire his kid in secret...the one approach makes Trump a nepotist the other shows Biden's corruption. Really curious what the voters will say...

Oct 14, 20 7:14 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Don't get me started on sandwiches.

Oct 14, 20 7:19 pm  · 
 · 
square.

perhaps downplaying is the only way to reach herd immunity, maybe Trump is playing the long game here. Why'd you think he used his own backyard to spread the virus among his Republican friends?...Smart move I'd say, he's out of the basement but where's Joe?

randomised, your post below speaks volumes about your character, considering you think that an approach that would require 2millions deaths in the us is a smart move.


https://www.nbcnews.com/health...

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32153-X/fulltext

Oct 15, 20 10:25 am  · 
1  · 
tduds

(from https://twitter.com/dantoujours/)

So just so I follow this story:

Hunter Biden, who lives in Los Angeles, decides to fly 3000 miles across country, to drop off 3 MacBook Pros at a repair shop run by a blind guy who charges the insanely low price of $85. 

He gets off the plane and drunk drives to the repair shop (because there aren't repair shops in LA). He drops them off, signs a contract for repair and then disappears. The repair shop owner recovers and reads Hunter's *private* emails, a few of which mention a possible meeting with his dad and is so alarmed, he contacts the FBI.

The FBI arranges to pick up the hard drives, but the computer repair shop owner takes a totally normal step of copying them. Once he realizes the FBI isn't doing anything with them, he calls up the most credible ex-Mayor on Earth and hands them the contents of these drives.

That totally credible ex-Mayor sits on them for months, then chooses to release them 3 weeks before the election. The mainstream media asks to independently verify their validity but said ex-Mayor does what all people trying to prove facts do and ignores these requests.

Is this how stupid we are now?


Oct 16, 20 12:30 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Let's take a break from yelling about communism to dunk on the other stupid extreme - unfettered libertarianism:

  https://newrepublic.com/articl...


Oct 14, 20 5:37 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

For the billionth time I was *explaining* it, not *endorsing* it. Not everything is an editorial, my man.

Oct 14, 20 5:59 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

You must be fun at parties.

Oct 14, 20 7:13 pm  · 
3  · 
randomised

"do you know americans really care about? the fact that over 200,000 people have died from a virus that the president intentionally downplayed and still has no plan for addressing."

perhaps downplaying is the only way to reach herd immunity, maybe Trump is playing the long game here. Why'd you think he used his own backyard to spread the virus among his Republican friends?...Smart move I'd say, he's out of the basement but where's Joe?

Oct 14, 20 7:21 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

Sir this is a Wendys

Oct 14, 20 7:24 pm  · 
2  · 
randomised

Don't get the reference but I did post my reply to square. under the wrong post, my bad...

Oct 14, 20 7:31 pm  · 
2  · 
square.

the threat of individualist-extremists isn't being talked about enough by the msm! these people are preaching self-centeredness, eroding the social fabric and poisoning the minds of this generation. it used to be that the family, or church, or union was important and provided places of solidarity and togetherness. now these isolated libertarians, with their completely wrong, poisonous ideology, are ruining the country, and probably the whole world. for ALL of human history, people worked together- whether hunting and gathering, farming, building towns. libertariansim has done more to destroy human relationships than any other philosophy, in the history of mankind, ever. now these egotistical, isolated individualist-extremists will ruin history forever unless we call attention to it in online forums.

Oct 15, 20 9:09 am  · 
1  · 
square.

here's a personal blog that i used to understand libertarians, that is totally unbiased and extremely simple. some might say dumbed-down, but in a good way. but it's definitely authoritative https://ockhamsbeard.wordpress.com/2011/01/20/redefining-the-political-spectrum-2-0/

Oct 15, 20 9:12 am  · 
 · 
square.

dont even get me started on ronpaulism.

Oct 15, 20 9:14 am  · 
 · 
tduds

"Libertarianism is literally the opposite of authoritarianism." 

Yes and both are bad.

Oct 15, 20 2:01 pm  · 
2  · 
square.

the new republic article/story tduds posted is more than enough real world evidence to put to bed any of your finest libertarian ideals.

Oct 15, 20 3:26 pm  · 
 · 
square.

it's clear you're unable to refute any of the arguments against libertarianism, as you, yet again, revert to your red scare tactics. what about-ism at it's finest. btw- i don't support communism, that's just you making another straw man. i'm quite concerned about you, as you continually invent fake arguments and people.

challenge yourself for once and read the article. better yet, you don't even have to read.. it has a listen function.

Oct 15, 20 4:05 pm  · 
 · 
tduds

It's self-evident because it follows from basic logic ;)

Oct 15, 20 4:21 pm  · 
 · 

That bear article is SO GOOD! I loved reading it, it's similar to China Mieville's fantastic takedown of seasteading in which he calls libertarians "republicans who are too dumb to game the system". https://inthesetimes.com/article/floating-utopias

Oct 16, 20 12:07 pm  · 
1  · 
tduds

So I'm not going to watch the town halls, but it just occurred to me that Trump has painted himself into a corner where he now has to compete with Biden on TV ratings, which are literally the only thing he cares about.

It's hilarious. Poetic, even.

Oct 15, 20 8:16 pm  · 
2  · 
tduds

So who won?

Oct 16, 20 12:31 pm  · 
 · 
SneakyPete

Much like Aliens Vs. Predator, no matter who won, we lost.

Oct 16, 20 1:07 pm  · 
4  · 

Biden won, which probably hurts Trump more than it will to lose to him on election day.

"Mr. Biden’s town-hall meeting, which aired on a single network, was seen by an average of 15.1 million viewers, compared with 13.5 million for Mr. Trump even though the president monopolized three networks — NBC, MSNBC and CNBC — simultaneously."

Oct 16, 20 6:32 pm  · 
 · 

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