Yes... but even though it's a OMA firm, it's only been dependent of OMA for a little less than 5 years.
Not to mention, how many 30 year olds get the opportunity to essentially do their own thing like JPR with REX did. That's quite a bit of responsibility Koolhaus gave JPR.
Start up was a poor choice of words, I agree. How about "5 years old?" There's probably boutique architecture firms going on 20 years that have yet to hit the billion dollar mark... even if one building makes up half of that.
I have no idea why anyone is harping on this so much. A middleweight star of architecture just said he doesn't like to hire academically trained architects because he feels they're detrimental.
How many people on this exact board constantly complain the NCARB nor the AIA nor much of anyone enforces policies that adequately train architects?
And then when there are adequately trained architects with "grounded real world talents"... they all end up working at AECOM designing vinyl-and-EIFS torture boxes known as strip malls and prisons for 80k a year?
I actually applaud him for taking risks hiring people who are talented but not educated in architecture.
You know how many job advertisements I run across looking for administrative assistants, financial managers, office managers, business managers and graphic designs for architecture firmswho want people with M.Archs?
What the hell kind of skills does a M.Arch give someone looking to manage an office?
Architecture is an archaic political institution one of a victorian age.
A bunch of rich kid douche bags with a hobby represent the rest of us.
I love it when the popular kids get a whiff of realism, which unfortunately for most of us is not a theory we can choose, we are stuck with it.
One time a really famous architect came to studio and after the crit started talking about running jobs that were being built, the guy sounded ridiculously naïve like he lived in a bubble in college and never walked into a lower class pub. He was suprised at how not rational and ideological the porcess of getting something built was.
Rusty I completely agree, OMA and REX work is absolute crap - its defeatist elitist architecure - they have admitted capitalism as the design enginer and produce really bad abstractions.
It was obvious to me a decade ago when visiting OMA projects everyone there must think in abstraction, the details were absolute shite.
Tear the profession the down, we sure as hell don't need it. Hire a designer, and engineer, and a contractor and you have the people you need for any job. I plan on getting a license anyway for that extra couple thousand on the side....
You can learn a lot from vinyl and eifs you elitist douch bag (kidding callm down i) but you would probably be employed if you could detail vinyl meeting eifs on a knock gehry meets zaha design strip mall in puerto rico.
Ok rusty, have OMA detail the profession and we can let nature tear it down faster than you can say REX
"A bunch of rich kid douche bags with a hobby represent the rest of us."
Presumably, you're speaking for yourself when you say this - you certainly don't speak for me, nor do I think you speak "for the rest of us".
IMO, "starchitects" are important only to a very small portion of the people who hire architects. Our firm's clients are smart, successful business people who generally demonstrate good taste and a decent design sense. They listen to us and allow us to push their design sensibilities. By any objective standard, they're good clients.
Our firm, and a few of our competitors, represent the world of architecture to these people - the people who pay fees and support our salaries. I can't remember a single instance over the past 35-40 years when one of these clients has even mentioned one of the starchitects-de-jour, much less expressed any admiration for any of their work.
Among the mainstream client community - the people served by the majority of architects - starchitects are fundamentally IRRELEVANT.
at my Alma mater campus which has an infamous building by that ex journalist, we use it as an example how not to do things, It serves its purpose though as a marketing device, but it is sorely lacking, especially the acoustical properties you can't hear a person sitting across from you unless you raise your voice, i think mr. rem submitted that design as a joke. I could see him laughing about having been selected.
Now I'm going to get back to my vinly and EIFS torture boxes because pumping CAD beats the shit out of facing shelves at my local grocery store any day...
...Yes, I know I'm a massive sellout, but at least I'm not doing prisons... yet...
There is a world where every one is struggling to utilize each other, and another world where even if reality is harsh every one is trying to help each other.
Not to mention that what they are struggling in the first case is superficial Egoism.
for all the bad stuff that people say about Archinectors, I will say that they are the only people that actually Know that IIT is not ITT (a tradeschool), I can't hide where i went to college around you guys.
i am too post architecture to really talk about this. however, i worked for a firm that was hired to redesign most of the condo layouts for a notable REX project.
rem and zaha do real architecture too, they just have to do a bit more than most of us. it isn't about doing less. not at all.
star architects do the same ol shit as all of us, and deal with clients just the same. they also do extra stuff that makes the architecture into something special. maybe it doesn't always work, but that is because they are edging into the unknown. when it works you get something for the ages. when it doesn't ...well, it guess it goes the same place dead wamarts end up.
Old fogey and quiz, sorry never heard of you, what mags have you been published in?
Go back to working with real people doing real jobs, you have nothing to add to this discourse of Architecture with a capital A.
Dude my name is olaf design ninja - not be taken seriously most the time$ I am that comedian that says what you want to say but the ideological bullshit has thwarted your courage.
Anyway, no quiz and fogey you are thoroughly wrong. the rich kid douche bags represent you and the designers on hgtv as well, after that the AIA. Its called mass media. Haven't seen any good facility architecture at MOMA latelt.
You know politicians represent your district, which is bull shit, but when I think of Vermoint I think yelling and screaming old school british policy hating americans. I don't actually don't know anyone from Vermont and most people don't know many REAL architects - guys who make money and do something useful.
Anyway I like this Prince Ramus guy for such ridiculously true commentary, we need more starchicts like hoiward stern or george carlin and less guys who wax each others candle sticks all day.
imo, the profession doesn't need more people who can sit around and draft construction documents. that's why so many are out of work and can't find work when rehiring begins again. economically speaking, the world doesn't need more architects, and if you want to get into architecture you're going to have to challenge what architecture has traditionally been. if you think knowing the dimension of a CMU and how to detail a TPO roof is the most important thing you should learn at a four year university or graduate program you should instead just go to a community college and studying "cad drafting."
universities are there for students to acquire professional skills but more importantly to develop their individual passions into something that can lead them into a successful future, financially and intellectually. what sets you apart from anyone else who can select 8" conc. structural wall from the revit ribbon and drop it into the model?
also, so many architects are reluctant to pick up new skills, especially in terms of digital design, including Revit. their reasons are mostly irrelevant and have been proven wrong. but suffice it to say, it is another reason why architects can appear irrelevant or detrimental, ie; a lack of respect for what is happening in the present. not engaging technology or thinking about how to do green and still do good design, or engaging consultants outside of the construction industry.
instead many of the old guard are engaged in pointless meta-physical/nostalgic arguments about hand drafting and how Lynn, JPR, Mayne, Rapid Eye Movement, or the other star architects are just egoists and artists.
i say, be an artist, assert your ego, stop being so aw shucks passive aggressive humble, push your clients to build something meaningful. make your clients question what words like "functional" or "budget" actually mean and get them to build something that doesn't make every city look the same or force office drones to sit under a 2x4 acoustic tile ceiling.
people with architectural education [are]... increasingly irrelevant, if not detrimental
Yes... but even though it's a OMA firm, it's only been dependent of OMA for a little less than 5 years.
Not to mention, how many 30 year olds get the opportunity to essentially do their own thing like JPR with REX did. That's quite a bit of responsibility Koolhaus gave JPR.
Start up was a poor choice of words, I agree. How about "5 years old?" There's probably boutique architecture firms going on 20 years that have yet to hit the billion dollar mark... even if one building makes up half of that.
I have no idea why anyone is harping on this so much. A middleweight star of architecture just said he doesn't like to hire academically trained architects because he feels they're detrimental.
How many people on this exact board constantly complain the NCARB nor the AIA nor much of anyone enforces policies that adequately train architects?
And then when there are adequately trained architects with "grounded real world talents"... they all end up working at AECOM designing vinyl-and-EIFS torture boxes known as strip malls and prisons for 80k a year?
I actually applaud him for taking risks hiring people who are talented but not educated in architecture.
You know how many job advertisements I run across looking for administrative assistants, financial managers, office managers, business managers and graphic designs for architecture firmswho want people with M.Archs?
What the hell kind of skills does a M.Arch give someone looking to manage an office?
Architecture is an archaic political institution one of a victorian age.
A bunch of rich kid douche bags with a hobby represent the rest of us.
I love it when the popular kids get a whiff of realism, which unfortunately for most of us is not a theory we can choose, we are stuck with it.
One time a really famous architect came to studio and after the crit started talking about running jobs that were being built, the guy sounded ridiculously naïve like he lived in a bubble in college and never walked into a lower class pub. He was suprised at how not rational and ideological the porcess of getting something built was.
Rusty I completely agree, OMA and REX work is absolute crap - its defeatist elitist architecure - they have admitted capitalism as the design enginer and produce really bad abstractions.
It was obvious to me a decade ago when visiting OMA projects everyone there must think in abstraction, the details were absolute shite.
Tear the profession the down, we sure as hell don't need it. Hire a designer, and engineer, and a contractor and you have the people you need for any job. I plan on getting a license anyway for that extra couple thousand on the side....
As a vinyl and EIFS torture box consultant I take offense to your fatty remarks.
I was told there would be no heavy lifting for this job position.
You can learn a lot from vinyl and eifs you elitist douch bag (kidding callm down i) but you would probably be employed if you could detail vinyl meeting eifs on a knock gehry meets zaha design strip mall in puerto rico.
Ok rusty, have OMA detail the profession and we can let nature tear it down faster than you can say REX
Presumably, you're speaking for yourself when you say this - you certainly don't speak for me, nor do I think you speak "for the rest of us".
IMO, "starchitects" are important only to a very small portion of the people who hire architects. Our firm's clients are smart, successful business people who generally demonstrate good taste and a decent design sense. They listen to us and allow us to push their design sensibilities. By any objective standard, they're good clients.
Our firm, and a few of our competitors, represent the world of architecture to these people - the people who pay fees and support our salaries. I can't remember a single instance over the past 35-40 years when one of these clients has even mentioned one of the starchitects-de-jour, much less expressed any admiration for any of their work.
Among the mainstream client community - the people served by the majority of architects - starchitects are fundamentally IRRELEVANT.
somehow i think rem knows more about building than most of us here.
as for the OP, well it seems to me the dude is just having fun toying with the reporter. i wouldn't read too much into it.
at my Alma mater campus which has an infamous building by that ex journalist, we use it as an example how not to do things, It serves its purpose though as a marketing device, but it is sorely lacking, especially the acoustical properties you can't hear a person sitting across from you unless you raise your voice, i think mr. rem submitted that design as a joke. I could see him laughing about having been selected.
IIT creativity expert?
Now I'm going to get back to my vinly and EIFS torture boxes because pumping CAD beats the shit out of facing shelves at my local grocery store any day...
...Yes, I know I'm a massive sellout, but at least I'm not doing prisons... yet...
Donna Sink likes Old Fogey's comment (I just came here from Facebook).
OldFogey,
There is a world where every one is struggling to utilize each other, and another world where even if reality is harsh every one is trying to help each other.
Not to mention that what they are struggling in the first case is superficial Egoism.
It is your choice where to belong.
for all the bad stuff that people say about Archinectors, I will say that they are the only people that actually Know that IIT is not ITT (a tradeschool), I can't hide where i went to college around you guys.
i am too post architecture to really talk about this. however, i worked for a firm that was hired to redesign most of the condo layouts for a notable REX project.
Vado, what does post-architecture mean?
http://www.newyorkemploymentattorneyblog.com/2010/05/department_of_labor_issues_gui.html
http://laborlaw.typepad.com/labor_and_employment_law_/2007/11/unpaid-internsh.html
seems like there are attorneys willing to take these cases...
oops...wrong thread.
The thread is gone. Looks like someone's attorney made a call...
really? wow. that would be cool if true.
rem and zaha do real architecture too, they just have to do a bit more than most of us. it isn't about doing less. not at all.
star architects do the same ol shit as all of us, and deal with clients just the same. they also do extra stuff that makes the architecture into something special. maybe it doesn't always work, but that is because they are edging into the unknown. when it works you get something for the ages. when it doesn't ...well, it guess it goes the same place dead wamarts end up.
Old fogey and quiz, sorry never heard of you, what mags have you been published in?
Go back to working with real people doing real jobs, you have nothing to add to this discourse of Architecture with a capital A.
Dude my name is olaf design ninja - not be taken seriously most the time$ I am that comedian that says what you want to say but the ideological bullshit has thwarted your courage.
Anyway, no quiz and fogey you are thoroughly wrong. the rich kid douche bags represent you and the designers on hgtv as well, after that the AIA. Its called mass media. Haven't seen any good facility architecture at MOMA latelt.
You know politicians represent your district, which is bull shit, but when I think of Vermoint I think yelling and screaming old school british policy hating americans. I don't actually don't know anyone from Vermont and most people don't know many REAL architects - guys who make money and do something useful.
Anyway I like this Prince Ramus guy for such ridiculously true commentary, we need more starchicts like hoiward stern or george carlin and less guys who wax each others candle sticks all day.
Just saying...olaf is out
Architecture with a capital A.
...not by prince-ramus
imo, the profession doesn't need more people who can sit around and draft construction documents. that's why so many are out of work and can't find work when rehiring begins again. economically speaking, the world doesn't need more architects, and if you want to get into architecture you're going to have to challenge what architecture has traditionally been. if you think knowing the dimension of a CMU and how to detail a TPO roof is the most important thing you should learn at a four year university or graduate program you should instead just go to a community college and studying "cad drafting."
universities are there for students to acquire professional skills but more importantly to develop their individual passions into something that can lead them into a successful future, financially and intellectually. what sets you apart from anyone else who can select 8" conc. structural wall from the revit ribbon and drop it into the model?
also, so many architects are reluctant to pick up new skills, especially in terms of digital design, including Revit. their reasons are mostly irrelevant and have been proven wrong. but suffice it to say, it is another reason why architects can appear irrelevant or detrimental, ie; a lack of respect for what is happening in the present. not engaging technology or thinking about how to do green and still do good design, or engaging consultants outside of the construction industry.
instead many of the old guard are engaged in pointless meta-physical/nostalgic arguments about hand drafting and how Lynn, JPR, Mayne, Rapid Eye Movement, or the other star architects are just egoists and artists.
i say, be an artist, assert your ego, stop being so aw shucks passive aggressive humble, push your clients to build something meaningful. make your clients question what words like "functional" or "budget" actually mean and get them to build something that doesn't make every city look the same or force office drones to sit under a 2x4 acoustic tile ceiling.
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