I just received an email about NCARB's fee increases a few minutes ago. I think NCARB is the only organization that has to charge their patrons more for streamlining and providing more efficiency for their business and services. They compare it to online banking, but my bank didn't charge me more for online access and services.
I think it's just unfair and ridiculous to up charge us at the point in time when most people in the profession and related fields are jobless. I think it further discourages interns from becoming registered which ironically hurts them since they obviously need more money from us.
Anyway, just thought I would vent a bit. There's a link at the bottom to the NCARB fee increase page. Anybody else just a little irked by this?
I have pasted the letter and side bar from the email.
A Letter From the President
The National Council of Architectural Registration Boards has a responsibility that both the Board of Directors and staff take very seriously. That responsibility demands that we strive to discover more efficient, effective ways of serving our customers and doing the important work of the Council.
Over the past three years, NCARB has taken a number of steps to improve its business processes for you—to provide you with service that aligns with the technology of today— service that allows you to do your business more efficiently. We have automated systems and introduced new technology to streamline many of the processes that used to take weeks—even months.
In order to deliver—and continue to improve—the service you expect, we had to make the very difficult decision to increase fees at our April Board of Directors meeting. For the past several years, we felt strongly that fee increases had to be delayed due to the economy, even though throughout this time we've been working hard to bring you new tools, improved services, and improved communication. We must consider other fees not included in these changes that will be evaluated throughout this fiscal year.
Something that I think is difficult for our customers to understand is the magnitude of the task we face in this process of moving from an all paper system to an electronic system. Every single one of our customers has a Record that is comprised of numerous documents verifying education, experience, and examination. We estimate that we have more than three million documents in customer Records—many of these with multiple pages.
For example, at one time it took an average of 50 days to process the paper experience documentation of architects and interns for certification and licensure. This is now processed in 48 hours. Architect and intern new Record applications have gone from a 45-day turnaround to an instant one. Transmittals for Record holders seeking opportunities in additional jurisdictions previously took an average of 15 days and now takes an average of five. And we don't intend to stop our improvements there.
The e-EVR system, created just a year and a half ago, gathers data completely electronically and has generated over 77,000 experience reports over the past year alone. This new system creates complete transparency for our customers, provides instantaneous ability to update their work experience, and allows them to know where they stand in the program. This is the direction we are headed with all of our systems.
We need to continue improving service to our customers so that ultimately the business that you do with NCARB, and the service we provide, is as seamless as your online banking. Our goal is to build systems, processes, and programs that facilitate reciprocity, enhance the profession, and ultimately help serve to protect the health, safety, and welfare of the public.
Respectfully,
Andy Prescott
Andrew W. Prescott, AIA
Fee Increases
What are the reasons for the fee increase?
* increased service and future service enhancements: you expect the same level of technological sophistication you experience in other aspects of conducting business online — such as online banking
* improvements to our processing and evaluation times: service that allows you to conduct your business more efficiently
* moving a paper based system to an electronic one: to improve speed of service and transparency
* improvements to the Intern Development Program (IDP 2.0 and e-EVR): to improve speed of service and transparency
When were the fees increased last?
* Most fees have not increased since July 2007
* The IDP application fee was last increased July 2003
i saw that too (and was equally outraged regarding the bank comparison, my bank provides me a legitimate service, NCARB - not so much)
i do think it's highly asinine to be incorporating fee increases when overwhelming number of architects are unemployed. they should be going the other way.
i feel the same way these days about NCARB as i do the USGBC
I believe it's the Certification section jobby. How do you like that more than doubled fee for your initial certification? Do they really expect to encourage more interns to get licensed with that fee? I'm about to begin studying for my 4th exam and now I have to look forward to paying $1,500 more after I've paid $1470 to take all of the exams if I pass them all on the first go around. I am way under employed right now to boot. When I first got laid off last year I thought to myself, "Well I will have plenty of time to study for the exams." But that doesn't matter much when you can afford to take them or afford the paperwork.
Meanwhile it's been almost 2 months and NCARB has yet to give the final approval on my IDP let alone return a phone call or email. I can't help but wonder if maybe I should be trying to get a job at NCARB because they must get paid well for what little responsibility they have.
Is there a point to maintaining an NCARB record after you have become licensed in a state? I understand maintaining your record while in IDP, but after that, what would NCARB do (no, seriously)?
Jun 7, 10 7:35 pm ·
·
G4tor
it's only useful if you want to apply for reciprocity in another state. Other than that, it's completely useless.
The NCARB BOARD OF DIRECTORS ARE LIKE THE PETROLEUM CLUB, WALL STREET CLUB. I doubt for a moment they have the best interest of the profession on their minds. I think it is a cash cow...for the good ole boys..and girls.
jah - maintaining a 'council record' makes getting cross-registered (or reciprocity) with other states very easy. it's almost a must for me - i have multiple registrations to maintain and a need, about once a year, to get a new registration to legitimately chase work in that state.
now, i'm no fan of the fee increases on idp - it seems crazy to me to ask the lower rung of the profession to foot the biggest fees. i haven't looked this year, but my yearly fee was around 250 last year. i'd say charge the people like me more if it helps subsidize the idp fees (of course, they won't since enough of us on this side of things bitching would actually get their attention...)
they are lying. you notice there is nothing in the letter about the lavish expenses incurred - at your expense no less - to put up volunteers that do pre-testing evaluations? i stayed at a hotel in santa monica, on the beach, that was featured in a movie, starring sir. anthony hopkins. the flight, meals, hotel and a per diem was payed for by you; the record holder. the next time i stayed in another resort in the arizona desert, near the school of architecture, near the UofA, again, all paid for by? yes, you.
you want to complain? screw ncarb. write your congress person. i am. on top of that, i am calling ncarb, to see if there are any more "volunteering" opportunities available.
i am calling ALL of my congressional representatives. i'd suggest you do the same. i think congress doesn't have enough to do, and clearly NCARB cannot handle how angry i am.
Licensing should be left to the individual state boards. In an era of scarcity cross licensing will probably become harder as more architects demand local contracts stay local or at least within the state for public projects.
it is left to state boards. each state has their own requirements. but perhaps you are suggesting each state become responsible their own exam requirements? i tend to think that the exam is fine, but this overly simplistic idea, that ncarb is really doing anything to facilitate the reciprocity/comity process, is not only laughable, it borders on criminal - hyperbole intended.
Hey what do you know the president of ncarb is from the aia.
Respectfully,
Andy Prescott
Andrew W. Prescott, AIA
Where are all those aia defenders... NCARB, AIA, IDP big scam ever that is destroying our profession, we really need to do something about it. Why are we letting those two big corporations/business ruin our profession. They are worst than bankers.
it's not enough that they just raised the exam prices last year, this year they raise the fee. unbelievable. some ungodly percentage of this profession is jobless, so take an effing paycut. the fact that it's 2010 and they're just now electronic is CRAZY.
OK, it's madness, it really is. Raising fees at this time of possibly 40% unemployment is beyond tone-deaf and insensitive.
But loco77 I take issue with the notion that ncarb and AIA are "destroying the profession". They're not. What's destroying the profession is a crappy economy combined with our general inability, as a profession, to be smart. I'm not saying we're all dumb, but we don't know how to sell ourselves, and when someone comes up with a smart way to do that s/he gets hit with abuse from fellow architects who can't stand to see someone else succeed.
I maintain a NCARB file because I'm registered in two states. But I haven't done work in one of those states for four years - if it costs double to maintain that registration because NCARB ups their fees, I'll just let it lapse, so NCARb will get nothing instead of twice what they would have gotten. Is that smart business? Nope. But it's emblematic of a system driving itself into the ground.
joey d - sure, there are tons of firms screaming to keep all things local. but you know what? as a young firm struggling like crazy to keep getting public sector work, the last thing i want to do is close down the border. in the long run, it's not healthy for business in general. i've lost 2 projects to an out of state firm in the last 2 months. doesn't bother me in the slightest.
in practice, we've seen most agencies, etc. we work with keep most jobs local for more mundane reasons. which is fine as well. i just don't want to be automatically shut out if there's a project i'm particularly qualified for just because it happens to be across state lines.
When I read these paragraphs, I think a price REDUCTION is due. I double dare them to lay off 40% of the staff after going digital. Lollllll.
"For example, at one time it took an average of 50 days to process the paper experience documentation of architects and interns for certification and licensure. This is now processed in 48 hours. Architect and intern new Record applications have gone from a 45-day turnaround to an instant one. Transmittals for Record holders seeking opportunities in additional jurisdictions previously took an average of 15 days and now takes an average of five. And we don't intend to stop our improvements there.
The e-EVR system, created just a year and a half ago, gathers data completely electronically and has generated over 77,000 experience reports over the past year alone. This new system creates complete transparency for our customers, provides instantaneous ability to update their work experience, and allows them to know where they stand in the program. This is the direction we are headed with all of our systems."
Just because your service used to suck really hard at too high of a price doesn't mean that when you bring it up to acceptable standards, you deserve a giant increase in your already-inflated prices. ugh.
The website says that NCARB and it's responsibility lies mostly on a national level with 40 full-time employees.
Its 2005 revenue was ~$15,000,000. Assuming a salary average of $65k (D.C. is expensive!) and an average benefits package of $25k, their employee overhead is about $90k a head. A grand total of $3.6 million a year!
Their rent from what I can tell is approximately 6,000 square feet in 1801 K Street, NW (aka the 180K building) runs about 70 dollars per square foot or $420,000 a year.
Between basic rent and employee overhead, is already eating up about 30% of their operating budget.
However! However! NCARB only receives about $10,000,000 from its fees. So, their basic overhead is already approximately 40% of the money they collect.
What you have to really focus on is how they make an extra $5,000,000 a year and where they are spending the rest of this $6-$11 million dollars.
SO LET'S LAY IT ALL ON THE LINE I have their 2006 tax return right here!
Officer/Board Salary -- $660k
Other Salary and Wages -- $3.2 mil
Pension -- $230k
Other employee benefits -- $509k
Payroll taxes -- $265k
...
Okay, I'm going to just go ahead and skip to the good part because everything is rather nominal for their operation.
...
Travel -- $2.04 mil
The extra money seems to be pulling in is from a conglomeration of side deals, investments et cetera.
So, if NCARB is really guilt of any crime... it is giving lavish vacations to its local and state volunteers who "babysit" everyone else.
And considering their average wage at their main office, their volunteers would probably make more money paying for their own accommodations and collecting a wage.
In fact, the highest paid person at NCARB only makes $252k a year. Out of their board of 12 people, only 5 collect any kind of salary.
The rest collect a total of about $67k shared in expense accounts-- most of which covers their once a year travel to DC to set forth the next year's guidelines.
In addition, NCARB also pays out about $1.5mil in "consulting fees" that seem to cover for the most part preparation, organization and running testing.
That combined with my overall horrible experience in life (age 15-19) was what lead me to be a planner.
One of first personal projects at my job was to compile maps for our infographics (a.k.a. THIS IS WHERE CRIME HAPPENED.) I started dumbly trying to get ArcGIS to work so I could export editable maps into Illustrator. That failed pretty horribly.
However, the ghetto mapping system I had rigged up started to show patterns about who, what, where and why. That lead me to believe that there was a bigger picture underlying news stories tied to places rather than people (the whole throw anyone in a 'ghetto' and they'll turn 'ghetto.)'
Anyways, my background in journalism (which is mostly on the design side) plus my own personal experiences is what made me want to become a planner.
And this is the reason why I am typing this out:
Something I learned as a planner was to always follow where the money went. If you're doing RFQ/RFPs on the contractor (i.e. the other side of the coin architects deal with) side, you should always investigate every single entity (even if you're familiar with them) for every single contract.
Secondly, a majority of the planning world still plans in paper-- paper planning is incredibly difficult, incredibly expensive and incredibly slow. Older planners have been fighting the trend towards going digital. Why? Because digital planning is easy and puts more focus on creating places and creating 'urban aesthetic.'
A comprehensive master plan is essentially as easy as converting a map file into a .obj file, importing it into sketchup and drawing a bunch of squares. You can do this easily in less than twenty hours.
If I were to do the same thing by paper, it would easily take a year (and several hundreds of thousands of dollars).
NCARB, as a semi-legal entity, is still highly bound by paper. Any paper organization is incredibly difficult to manage. And by digitizing, although admittedly late to the game, they will phase a majority of their operation out of existence. This is true with planning, bureaucracy and other governmental and non-governmental entities.
As architects, you should be lucky that they are even creating a system that effectively renders themselves null.
This thread of responses does affirm my believe that NCARB, IDP should not exist at all. Their function is solely as a business to make money and provide a crappy service.
NCARB AND IDP should be an integral part of the educational system prior to graduation or receiving any form of professional degree.
If educational programs have to extend their curriculum for another year, is better off than dealing with this nonsense of NCARB, and IDP after receiving a professional degree which currently has no meaning or value in the profession.
Perhaps as a way to dismantle ncarb or idp is to boycott them for at least one year, and see where they are going to get their funding to sustain their business.
DO NOT APPLY TO TAKE EXAMS, LICENSED OR ANYTHING THAT INVOLVES NCARB AND IDP, DO NOT BECOME PART OF THEIR GAME.
Who are they to determine what should we or anybody do to practice the profession that we dearly love.
I might not be as smart as you and articulate to write or know all the facts, but clearly there is a problem and big problem, and you are missing the point or ignore it and dwell in facts.
How many non-profit corporations have I worked with them, and behind the scenes are clearly a business.
The ramifications that NCARB has in the profession affect everyone and are not small, is a big scheme and scam.
I think some of the money they generate goes to lobbying. I heard that they have a pretty powerful lobbying arm. Although, I'm not sure exactly what they lobby for unless it's for themselves.
I've been filling in my IDP for this past year (just 80 more hours of Project Management to go!), and this is an actual 'WARNING' that pops up on the side of their e-EVR screen:
"To earn IDP training hours, the work experience in each training area must be performed competently."
What? Seriously, how insulting is that? Are we in first grade here?
Don't even get me started about how my state board wanted three letters of recommendation testifying to my 'sound moral character'.
non-profits can make profits.. they just funnel it to paying higher salaries and showing next to nothing in the bank at the end of the year... I know a non profit that pays 80-100g salaries in the innercity, but yet the 'service' part of the co. is told they have to work for free since grant funds are not there.... interesting..
as for IDP/NCARB...who are they to say if i can become licensed.... if i can pass the exams that should be it...i passed my exam and have my builders license...same idea....der der der
NCARB, wants to keep us all studying for exams and more exams, because if we have free time and we start using our brain, and getting together it could mean the end of NCARB or atleast a radical change to it.
Okay, so I'm spending a ton of money on getting a graduate education and I have to renew my NCARB record for $75 while i'm in school? There goes 2 weeks of workstudy pay, or the equivalent of 5 days of interest that I'll be paying student loans after I graduate. Not only did they raise all of the fees, but you can't get a discount or an extension to renew like you could last year. BS if you ask me!
I guess the real question is "how do we get together to destroy NCARB?", or at the very least make damage it so bad that it becomes as stupid as getting LEED certified.
The absolute implosion of the profesion, which appears to be accelerating in the midwest, will ensure there won't be money leftover for silly things like ncarb. The states did just fine running the show for the last 100 years.
The idea that NCARB raised their fees because of the new evr system is hard to buy. If the system cost that much more to use in the long run than why did they do it? If anything, it should minimize their need for data entry employees. Its the same thing that banks did when they started using atm machines to replace bank tellers, and then charge everyone a "convenience fee". I would have much rather just continued to file by paper and saved the money in additional fees if this is actually the reason.
Oof, DonQuixote, that blog is painful. Really, everyone at NCARB makes over $100k for working half-time? I'm feeling a bit sick to my stomach right now - this would be one of those moments when ignorance would be bliss.
Same here Donna,
that blog is so detailed, it even names people, I would post it on here, I think its against the rules, everyone in architecture should read that blog. Did you see the money one guy made for working "0 Hours", man I think I'm going to go for a drive to calm myself down.
"Internationally Renowned Address- 1801K boasts an award-winning contemporary redesign embodying the POWER and PRESTIGE of Washington D.C. Integrating classic elegant design with a grand scale structure, Somerset Partners has transformed an old address into onbe of modern prestige."
Interestingly enough, I cannot find any information of their silver LEED certified space on the Gensler site.
Washington, DC—The National Council of Architectural Registration Boards (NCARB) is pleased to announce that our new office space has achieved a LEED-Silver certification from the U.S. Green Building Council’s (USGBC) Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) Green Building Rating System™.
The NCARB office relocated in December 2007 to a new suite at our address of 1801 K Street in Washington, DC; a move precipitated by the sale of the building and an extensive building renovation program. The new space, designed by Gensler’s District of Columbia office, provided NCARB an opportunity to incorporate sustainable design principles and materials in a space that better reflects the Council’s strategic reorganization implemented last year. Achieving the LEED-Silver rating was an especially rigorous process, as the building’s new owners did not incorporate environmental or sustainable design principles in the building’s renovation.
NCARB received 28 credits under the LEED for Commercial Interiors system. The credits were earned in a variety of ways including recycling of building materials, reusing our existing furniture, purchasing fixtures and finishes produced within close proximity to the DC-metro area, and installing energy-saving appliances, special light fixtures, and daylight responsive controls. A long-term lease, close proximity to public transportation, and an extensive recycling program also contributed to the achievement.
According to the USGBC’s web site, “LEED for Commercial Interiors is the recognized system for certifying high-performance green interiors that are healthy, productive places to work; are less costly to operate and maintain; and have a reduced environmental footprint.”
Press Release on NCARB's website. Now, what I find interesting is that they decided to move offices in 2007 to a building that was getting renovated, but then had to rerenovate because the first renovations were not LEED certified. So in addition to the expense of moving the office they also expended money to be LEED Silver, which although admirable, also seems like money poorly spent. LEED as an expensive process and while it's probably good PR for NCARB to back LEED as an example, if you don't have the cash, you don't have the cash.
I will say that fee increase or not, their timing on all of this is in exceptionally poor taste.
NCARB Fee increases!!!
I just received an email about NCARB's fee increases a few minutes ago. I think NCARB is the only organization that has to charge their patrons more for streamlining and providing more efficiency for their business and services. They compare it to online banking, but my bank didn't charge me more for online access and services.
I think it's just unfair and ridiculous to up charge us at the point in time when most people in the profession and related fields are jobless. I think it further discourages interns from becoming registered which ironically hurts them since they obviously need more money from us.
Anyway, just thought I would vent a bit. There's a link at the bottom to the NCARB fee increase page. Anybody else just a little irked by this?
I have pasted the letter and side bar from the email.
A Letter From the President
The National Council of Architectural Registration Boards has a responsibility that both the Board of Directors and staff take very seriously. That responsibility demands that we strive to discover more efficient, effective ways of serving our customers and doing the important work of the Council.
Over the past three years, NCARB has taken a number of steps to improve its business processes for you—to provide you with service that aligns with the technology of today— service that allows you to do your business more efficiently. We have automated systems and introduced new technology to streamline many of the processes that used to take weeks—even months.
In order to deliver—and continue to improve—the service you expect, we had to make the very difficult decision to increase fees at our April Board of Directors meeting. For the past several years, we felt strongly that fee increases had to be delayed due to the economy, even though throughout this time we've been working hard to bring you new tools, improved services, and improved communication. We must consider other fees not included in these changes that will be evaluated throughout this fiscal year.
Something that I think is difficult for our customers to understand is the magnitude of the task we face in this process of moving from an all paper system to an electronic system. Every single one of our customers has a Record that is comprised of numerous documents verifying education, experience, and examination. We estimate that we have more than three million documents in customer Records—many of these with multiple pages.
For example, at one time it took an average of 50 days to process the paper experience documentation of architects and interns for certification and licensure. This is now processed in 48 hours. Architect and intern new Record applications have gone from a 45-day turnaround to an instant one. Transmittals for Record holders seeking opportunities in additional jurisdictions previously took an average of 15 days and now takes an average of five. And we don't intend to stop our improvements there.
The e-EVR system, created just a year and a half ago, gathers data completely electronically and has generated over 77,000 experience reports over the past year alone. This new system creates complete transparency for our customers, provides instantaneous ability to update their work experience, and allows them to know where they stand in the program. This is the direction we are headed with all of our systems.
We need to continue improving service to our customers so that ultimately the business that you do with NCARB, and the service we provide, is as seamless as your online banking. Our goal is to build systems, processes, and programs that facilitate reciprocity, enhance the profession, and ultimately help serve to protect the health, safety, and welfare of the public.
Respectfully,
Andy Prescott
Andrew W. Prescott, AIA
Fee Increases
What are the reasons for the fee increase?
* increased service and future service enhancements: you expect the same level of technological sophistication you experience in other aspects of conducting business online — such as online banking
* improvements to our processing and evaluation times: service that allows you to conduct your business more efficiently
* moving a paper based system to an electronic one: to improve speed of service and transparency
* improvements to the Intern Development Program (IDP 2.0 and e-EVR): to improve speed of service and transparency
When were the fees increased last?
* Most fees have not increased since July 2007
* The IDP application fee was last increased July 2003
http://www.ncarb.org/Getting-an-Initial-License/NCARB-Fees.aspx
i saw that too (and was equally outraged regarding the bank comparison, my bank provides me a legitimate service, NCARB - not so much)
i do think it's highly asinine to be incorporating fee increases when overwhelming number of architects are unemployed. they should be going the other way.
i feel the same way these days about NCARB as i do the USGBC
Received the same, and ignored it as I do with AIA emails.
What fees do NCARB charge to RA's? Certification?
I believe it's the Certification section jobby. How do you like that more than doubled fee for your initial certification? Do they really expect to encourage more interns to get licensed with that fee? I'm about to begin studying for my 4th exam and now I have to look forward to paying $1,500 more after I've paid $1470 to take all of the exams if I pass them all on the first go around. I am way under employed right now to boot. When I first got laid off last year I thought to myself, "Well I will have plenty of time to study for the exams." But that doesn't matter much when you can afford to take them or afford the paperwork.
Online banking is actually useful whereas NCARB is not.
That sucks - keep your attention on the exams, and don't let the annoyances distract you.
Meanwhile it's been almost 2 months and NCARB has yet to give the final approval on my IDP let alone return a phone call or email. I can't help but wonder if maybe I should be trying to get a job at NCARB because they must get paid well for what little responsibility they have.
sorry to say...but ef NCARB...... and their IDP....
i'll work with my builders license and insurance....no need for a stamp in what i do, plus i have others that are registered.....
Is there a point to maintaining an NCARB record after you have become licensed in a state? I understand maintaining your record while in IDP, but after that, what would NCARB do (no, seriously)?
it's only useful if you want to apply for reciprocity in another state. Other than that, it's completely useless.
The NCARB BOARD OF DIRECTORS ARE LIKE THE PETROLEUM CLUB, WALL STREET CLUB. I doubt for a moment they have the best interest of the profession on their minds. I think it is a cash cow...for the good ole boys..and girls.
have they missed this whole recession thing - what the hell are they thinking, hey let's raise our prices and kick em when their down - wtf?
jah - maintaining a 'council record' makes getting cross-registered (or reciprocity) with other states very easy. it's almost a must for me - i have multiple registrations to maintain and a need, about once a year, to get a new registration to legitimately chase work in that state.
now, i'm no fan of the fee increases on idp - it seems crazy to me to ask the lower rung of the profession to foot the biggest fees. i haven't looked this year, but my yearly fee was around 250 last year. i'd say charge the people like me more if it helps subsidize the idp fees (of course, they won't since enough of us on this side of things bitching would actually get their attention...)
they are lying. you notice there is nothing in the letter about the lavish expenses incurred - at your expense no less - to put up volunteers that do pre-testing evaluations? i stayed at a hotel in santa monica, on the beach, that was featured in a movie, starring sir. anthony hopkins. the flight, meals, hotel and a per diem was payed for by you; the record holder. the next time i stayed in another resort in the arizona desert, near the school of architecture, near the UofA, again, all paid for by? yes, you.
you want to complain? screw ncarb. write your congress person. i am. on top of that, i am calling ncarb, to see if there are any more "volunteering" opportunities available.
i am calling ALL of my congressional representatives. i'd suggest you do the same. i think congress doesn't have enough to do, and clearly NCARB cannot handle how angry i am.
Licensing should be left to the individual state boards. In an era of scarcity cross licensing will probably become harder as more architects demand local contracts stay local or at least within the state for public projects.
it is left to state boards. each state has their own requirements. but perhaps you are suggesting each state become responsible their own exam requirements? i tend to think that the exam is fine, but this overly simplistic idea, that ncarb is really doing anything to facilitate the reciprocity/comity process, is not only laughable, it borders on criminal - hyperbole intended.
Hey what do you know the president of ncarb is from the aia.
Respectfully,
Andy Prescott
Andrew W. Prescott, AIA
Where are all those aia defenders... NCARB, AIA, IDP big scam ever that is destroying our profession, we really need to do something about it. Why are we letting those two big corporations/business ruin our profession. They are worst than bankers.
Dr. Loco77
hey, some crazy person started a facebook page called Dismantle NCARB Now.
it's not enough that they just raised the exam prices last year, this year they raise the fee. unbelievable. some ungodly percentage of this profession is jobless, so take an effing paycut. the fact that it's 2010 and they're just now electronic is CRAZY.
OK, it's madness, it really is. Raising fees at this time of possibly 40% unemployment is beyond tone-deaf and insensitive.
But loco77 I take issue with the notion that ncarb and AIA are "destroying the profession". They're not. What's destroying the profession is a crappy economy combined with our general inability, as a profession, to be smart. I'm not saying we're all dumb, but we don't know how to sell ourselves, and when someone comes up with a smart way to do that s/he gets hit with abuse from fellow architects who can't stand to see someone else succeed.
I maintain a NCARB file because I'm registered in two states. But I haven't done work in one of those states for four years - if it costs double to maintain that registration because NCARB ups their fees, I'll just let it lapse, so NCARb will get nothing instead of twice what they would have gotten. Is that smart business? Nope. But it's emblematic of a system driving itself into the ground.
I didn't pay my bill either. I bet I'm not alone.
joey d - sure, there are tons of firms screaming to keep all things local. but you know what? as a young firm struggling like crazy to keep getting public sector work, the last thing i want to do is close down the border. in the long run, it's not healthy for business in general. i've lost 2 projects to an out of state firm in the last 2 months. doesn't bother me in the slightest.
in practice, we've seen most agencies, etc. we work with keep most jobs local for more mundane reasons. which is fine as well. i just don't want to be automatically shut out if there's a project i'm particularly qualified for just because it happens to be across state lines.
When I read these paragraphs, I think a price REDUCTION is due. I double dare them to lay off 40% of the staff after going digital. Lollllll.
"For example, at one time it took an average of 50 days to process the paper experience documentation of architects and interns for certification and licensure. This is now processed in 48 hours. Architect and intern new Record applications have gone from a 45-day turnaround to an instant one. Transmittals for Record holders seeking opportunities in additional jurisdictions previously took an average of 15 days and now takes an average of five. And we don't intend to stop our improvements there.
The e-EVR system, created just a year and a half ago, gathers data completely electronically and has generated over 77,000 experience reports over the past year alone. This new system creates complete transparency for our customers, provides instantaneous ability to update their work experience, and allows them to know where they stand in the program. This is the direction we are headed with all of our systems."
77999 reports? There's only 120000 lic architects in the country. This is going to get fugly fast
Just because your service used to suck really hard at too high of a price doesn't mean that when you bring it up to acceptable standards, you deserve a giant increase in your already-inflated prices. ugh.
400 bucks to send your certificate file to get reciprocity in another state is a bit much! all they are doing i pushing paper...
I think beta has a serious point here.
The website says that NCARB and it's responsibility lies mostly on a national level with 40 full-time employees.
Its 2005 revenue was ~$15,000,000. Assuming a salary average of $65k (D.C. is expensive!) and an average benefits package of $25k, their employee overhead is about $90k a head. A grand total of $3.6 million a year!
Their rent from what I can tell is approximately 6,000 square feet in 1801 K Street, NW (aka the 180K building) runs about 70 dollars per square foot or $420,000 a year.
Between basic rent and employee overhead, is already eating up about 30% of their operating budget.
However! However! NCARB only receives about $10,000,000 from its fees. So, their basic overhead is already approximately 40% of the money they collect.
What you have to really focus on is how they make an extra $5,000,000 a year and where they are spending the rest of this $6-$11 million dollars.
SO LET'S LAY IT ALL ON THE LINE I have their 2006 tax return right here!
Officer/Board Salary -- $660k
Other Salary and Wages -- $3.2 mil
Pension -- $230k
Other employee benefits -- $509k
Payroll taxes -- $265k
...
Okay, I'm going to just go ahead and skip to the good part because everything is rather nominal for their operation.
...
Travel -- $2.04 mil
The extra money seems to be pulling in is from a conglomeration of side deals, investments et cetera.
So, if NCARB is really guilt of any crime... it is giving lavish vacations to its local and state volunteers who "babysit" everyone else.
And considering their average wage at their main office, their volunteers would probably make more money paying for their own accommodations and collecting a wage.
In fact, the highest paid person at NCARB only makes $252k a year. Out of their board of 12 people, only 5 collect any kind of salary.
The rest collect a total of about $67k shared in expense accounts-- most of which covers their once a year travel to DC to set forth the next year's guidelines.
In addition, NCARB also pays out about $1.5mil in "consulting fees" that seem to cover for the most part preparation, organization and running testing.
unicorn, were you an investigatory journalist in a previous life?
I actually was a journalist!
That combined with my overall horrible experience in life (age 15-19) was what lead me to be a planner.
One of first personal projects at my job was to compile maps for our infographics (a.k.a. THIS IS WHERE CRIME HAPPENED.) I started dumbly trying to get ArcGIS to work so I could export editable maps into Illustrator. That failed pretty horribly.
However, the ghetto mapping system I had rigged up started to show patterns about who, what, where and why. That lead me to believe that there was a bigger picture underlying news stories tied to places rather than people (the whole throw anyone in a 'ghetto' and they'll turn 'ghetto.)'
Anyways, my background in journalism (which is mostly on the design side) plus my own personal experiences is what made me want to become a planner.
And this is the reason why I am typing this out:
Something I learned as a planner was to always follow where the money went. If you're doing RFQ/RFPs on the contractor (i.e. the other side of the coin architects deal with) side, you should always investigate every single entity (even if you're familiar with them) for every single contract.
Secondly, a majority of the planning world still plans in paper-- paper planning is incredibly difficult, incredibly expensive and incredibly slow. Older planners have been fighting the trend towards going digital. Why? Because digital planning is easy and puts more focus on creating places and creating 'urban aesthetic.'
A comprehensive master plan is essentially as easy as converting a map file into a .obj file, importing it into sketchup and drawing a bunch of squares. You can do this easily in less than twenty hours.
If I were to do the same thing by paper, it would easily take a year (and several hundreds of thousands of dollars).
NCARB, as a semi-legal entity, is still highly bound by paper. Any paper organization is incredibly difficult to manage. And by digitizing, although admittedly late to the game, they will phase a majority of their operation out of existence. This is true with planning, bureaucracy and other governmental and non-governmental entities.
As architects, you should be lucky that they are even creating a system that effectively renders themselves null.
This thread of responses does affirm my believe that NCARB, IDP should not exist at all. Their function is solely as a business to make money and provide a crappy service.
NCARB AND IDP should be an integral part of the educational system prior to graduation or receiving any form of professional degree.
If educational programs have to extend their curriculum for another year, is better off than dealing with this nonsense of NCARB, and IDP after receiving a professional degree which currently has no meaning or value in the profession.
Perhaps as a way to dismantle ncarb or idp is to boycott them for at least one year, and see where they are going to get their funding to sustain their business.
DO NOT APPLY TO TAKE EXAMS, LICENSED OR ANYTHING THAT INVOLVES NCARB AND IDP, DO NOT BECOME PART OF THEIR GAME.
Who are they to determine what should we or anybody do to practice the profession that we dearly love.
Dr. Loco77
"Their function is solely as a business to make money and provide a crappy service. "
Wow... Do you not even realize that NCARB is non-profit corporation [501(c)(6)]?
Mr. Journalist Hot Shot Unicorn
I might not be as smart as you and articulate to write or know all the facts, but clearly there is a problem and big problem, and you are missing the point or ignore it and dwell in facts.
How many non-profit corporations have I worked with them, and behind the scenes are clearly a business.
The ramifications that NCARB has in the profession affect everyone and are not small, is a big scheme and scam.
Dr. Loco77
let's hope they use some of the fee increase to write better exam questions.
I think some of the money they generate goes to lobbying. I heard that they have a pretty powerful lobbying arm. Although, I'm not sure exactly what they lobby for unless it's for themselves.
I've been filling in my IDP for this past year (just 80 more hours of Project Management to go!), and this is an actual 'WARNING' that pops up on the side of their e-EVR screen:
"To earn IDP training hours, the work experience in each training area must be performed competently."
What? Seriously, how insulting is that? Are we in first grade here?
Don't even get me started about how my state board wanted three letters of recommendation testifying to my 'sound moral character'.
oh shit - I'm going to have to redo all of my hours - now the real trick is to find a competent supervisor to sign off on them...
non-profits can make profits.. they just funnel it to paying higher salaries and showing next to nothing in the bank at the end of the year... I know a non profit that pays 80-100g salaries in the innercity, but yet the 'service' part of the co. is told they have to work for free since grant funds are not there.... interesting..
as for IDP/NCARB...who are they to say if i can become licensed.... if i can pass the exams that should be it...i passed my exam and have my builders license...same idea....der der der
NCARB, wants to keep us all studying for exams and more exams, because if we have free time and we start using our brain, and getting together it could mean the end of NCARB or atleast a radical change to it.
Okay, so I'm spending a ton of money on getting a graduate education and I have to renew my NCARB record for $75 while i'm in school? There goes 2 weeks of workstudy pay, or the equivalent of 5 days of interest that I'll be paying student loans after I graduate. Not only did they raise all of the fees, but you can't get a discount or an extension to renew like you could last year. BS if you ask me!
i stopped paying Ncarb, though fortunately i'm done with idp and am working on my license, Burn in hell NCARB!
you THINK you're done?
I guess the real question is "how do we get together to destroy NCARB?", or at the very least make damage it so bad that it becomes as stupid as getting LEED certified.
The absolute implosion of the profesion, which appears to be accelerating in the midwest, will ensure there won't be money leftover for silly things like ncarb. The states did just fine running the show for the last 100 years.
some interesting info found on this blog
http://www.critiquethis.us/2010/07/21/the-real-answers-to-questions-about-ncarb-fees-increase/#more-2662
The idea that NCARB raised their fees because of the new evr system is hard to buy. If the system cost that much more to use in the long run than why did they do it? If anything, it should minimize their need for data entry employees. Its the same thing that banks did when they started using atm machines to replace bank tellers, and then charge everyone a "convenience fee". I would have much rather just continued to file by paper and saved the money in additional fees if this is actually the reason.
Oof, DonQuixote, that blog is painful. Really, everyone at NCARB makes over $100k for working half-time? I'm feeling a bit sick to my stomach right now - this would be one of those moments when ignorance would be bliss.
Same here Donna,
that blog is so detailed, it even names people, I would post it on here, I think its against the rules, everyone in architecture should read that blog. Did you see the money one guy made for working "0 Hours", man I think I'm going to go for a drive to calm myself down.
So here's the newly renovated building at 1801 K Street where NCARB offices:
http://www.1801k.com/
"Internationally Renowned Address- 1801K boasts an award-winning contemporary redesign embodying the POWER and PRESTIGE of Washington D.C. Integrating classic elegant design with a grand scale structure, Somerset Partners has transformed an old address into onbe of modern prestige."
Interestingly enough, I cannot find any information of their silver LEED certified space on the Gensler site.
Washington, DC—The National Council of Architectural Registration Boards (NCARB) is pleased to announce that our new office space has achieved a LEED-Silver certification from the U.S. Green Building Council’s (USGBC) Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) Green Building Rating System™.
The NCARB office relocated in December 2007 to a new suite at our address of 1801 K Street in Washington, DC; a move precipitated by the sale of the building and an extensive building renovation program. The new space, designed by Gensler’s District of Columbia office, provided NCARB an opportunity to incorporate sustainable design principles and materials in a space that better reflects the Council’s strategic reorganization implemented last year. Achieving the LEED-Silver rating was an especially rigorous process, as the building’s new owners did not incorporate environmental or sustainable design principles in the building’s renovation.
NCARB received 28 credits under the LEED for Commercial Interiors system. The credits were earned in a variety of ways including recycling of building materials, reusing our existing furniture, purchasing fixtures and finishes produced within close proximity to the DC-metro area, and installing energy-saving appliances, special light fixtures, and daylight responsive controls. A long-term lease, close proximity to public transportation, and an extensive recycling program also contributed to the achievement.
According to the USGBC’s web site, “LEED for Commercial Interiors is the recognized system for certifying high-performance green interiors that are healthy, productive places to work; are less costly to operate and maintain; and have a reduced environmental footprint.”
Press Release on NCARB's website. Now, what I find interesting is that they decided to move offices in 2007 to a building that was getting renovated, but then had to rerenovate because the first renovations were not LEED certified. So in addition to the expense of moving the office they also expended money to be LEED Silver, which although admirable, also seems like money poorly spent. LEED as an expensive process and while it's probably good PR for NCARB to back LEED as an example, if you don't have the cash, you don't have the cash.
I will say that fee increase or not, their timing on all of this is in exceptionally poor taste.
[img]serenity_now.jpg[img]
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