What if I leave my hotel without papers or lose my wallet? How long do I have to sit in jail on charges of 'looking suspiciously illegal' while my family mails my passport and birth certificate through god knows what bureaucratic nightmare?
Im sure youre not getting this Frac. Id love hear you say that targeting people who "look illegal" in some unspecified (but doubtlessly ethnic) way to be harassed, detained, and threatened with deportation; outlawing classes meant to retain and pass on cultural knowledge (of a specific non-white sort); firing teachers for having fucking accents is really a completely benign, ethnically mute series of coincidences. I dont think you believe that. I think everyone in that state knows exactly whats going on here, that at this point this actually has nothing whatsoever to do with crime or undocumented workers, and has everything to do with shifting demographics and racial antagonism.
Jim Crow wasnt bad because some people had to walk an extra 2 feet to use a drinking fountain. It was the nature of the criteria by which those people were segregated for abuse, and the underlying cultural hatred it represented. Anyone who cant recognize that the above trend in Arizona is morally indistinguishable from that methodology simply isnt being honest with themselves.
Given the level of sudden inordinate uproar, and pervasiveness of extreme misconceptions about the actual statistical facts involved, has it occurred to people this might just be a resurgent moral panic?
DHS publishes an annual report on characteristics of illegal immigration. The latest report (2009) shows sharp declines in the number of illegals in the US from most countries.
All countries saw declines from 2007 to 2009. Over 400,000 Mexican illegals went home in 2009 alone, for example (leaving about 4.68 million). Only Guatemala, Honduras and India saw increases during this period. Over half of Chinese illegals have simply gone home.
Latin American countries + Phillipines + India saw growth from 2000 to 2009, led by Mexico (4.68 million to 6.65 million) but the rest of the world saw sharp declines in illegal immigration to the US. The Chinese illegal immigrant seems to be an endangered species, for example... on the current rate of decrease, they'll all be gone by next year).
Economics dictates immigrations... including illegal immigration. No jobs, no illegals. China's economy is booming, so one report has their illegals literally showing up at CBP offices en masse to turn themselves in, for that free ticket home.
sorry.. meant to say that there was an overall decline in the number of illegal immigrants from all countries together from 2007 to 2009, not that all countries saw declines. Obviously, Guatemala, Honduras and India saw growth. Everybody else had net declines, as illegals scrambled to go home rather than starve in our streets.
i really think that this problem takes care of itself over time. Recovery in job growth is supposed to take over a decade. My bet is that there won't be a whole lot of illegals left by 2020.
1.34 million Americans working as illegal aliens in other countries (of the 5.3 million US expats). This works both ways. And with HUGE numbers.
So the friggin' ultra-nativist set is complaining out of both sides of their mouths (if you read the comments to that article): they're upset there are illegals in the US, upset that illegals are going home 'cause that means the US is less desirable, and upset that Americans are leaving America 'cause that means the country's in decline. They need to make up their minds or shut up.
Deputies said 25-year-old Jose Antonio Maisonet stabbed his girlfriend and ran her over with his BMW SUV Saturday night near Blanchard Park in east Orange County.
Additional testimony revealed that Pacheco and Kelsey were a couple and that the two had sex during the relationship. On Oct. 14, Kelsey told her parents that she was going to go for a walk, after she and her parents had a disagreement about Kelsey's relationship with Pacheco.
But friends say jealousy, not money, was the motive. They say Arriaga-Luna and Williams had been in a relationship, and Arriaga-Luna wanted more from her.
A jury recommended Wednesday that Aldana, 22, receive the death penalty for orchestrating the killing. Solorza told police Aldana asked him to help kill her, because Aldana feared she was pregnant.
Bobadilla pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter. He agreed to a 23-year prison sentence in exchange for testifying against his two co-defendants.
Deputies said Raul Rodriguez, 44, who lives two homes down from the party, called the constable's office to complain about loud music coming from the home.
Not one of these stories says anything about illegals. These individuals are simply of hispanic descent (except for the navajo boy). That is absurd racial profiling.
And lastly, with the exception of one case (by the navajo teen)... these are all fairly common murders!
Angela Laudun, 33, of Cut Off voluntarily left the Tequila Sunrise bar in Cut Off with four men early Saturday morning, Lafourche Sheriff Craig Webre said.
She agreed to trade money for sex with the men, all Mexican nationals working for Houma-based Quality Shipyards and living in company-owned quarters, he said.
...
Lafourche authorities said there are no indications the four suspects are in the country illegally.
seriously folks.. are our own fears and emotional responses to race so unrestrainted that we feel a need to respond to a rational discussion on immigration policy with such blatent racial fearmongering? With respect, Gertrude, that was low.
urbanist, why do you expect anything other than a racist discussion on a racist immigration legislature arizona passed? are you blind or trying to put a yuppie spin? i think mexicans should arm themselves and start defending their families against such organized and violent bigots.
"25 Americans, on average, are killed by illegal aliens every day (about evenly split between motor vehicle accidents and outright murder).
Do the math: That works out to more than 9,000 deaths per year, or more than 36,000 deaths over the past four years. That's more than ten times the number of Americans killed in Iraq over the past four years"
Some will argue that the statistic represent a general number applied over all of population, but simplistically, eliminating Illegal immigrants would have saved 36,000 lives. Simple math.
Your strange math is actually pretty funny, Geertrude, considering the homicide (including vehicular homicide) rate in this country is about 45 per day, according to the FBI.
I think xenophobic congressman Steve King (R-Klan) cited some figure last year that 12 homicides are committed by illegal immigrants each day, and he was widely accused (by experts) of making up his numbers. Literally making them up.. from thin air.
Funny because it's True?
I'm surprised you are able to compose yourself with such matter-of-fact rebuttal, considering which side of the argument you are on, and also considering how much the truth must hurt you.
Sorry, it's true.
The immigration act of 1967 was designed to limit European immigration.....it's obvious to 75% of america (that's a real figure, urbenis) thinks there are too many third-worl immigrants here, illegally.
But yea, Frac, I mean, I guess if you dont think racism is bad, that institutionalizing it is totally acceptable, then your opinion on this makes complete sense.
fighting against getting help to cope with all the fear and hatred, (your) information shows you have been doing badly, your sketchy assessments are not very good, 'you think' people coming after your livelihood of assumed 'owning' but real life is more co-operatively earned and populated than you paint and broadcast, your mathematical ideas unimaginatively dwelling on even more irrelevancy and eventually located in the losing end of those very snake oil statistics. you will remain minority within the bending blinders of your own mind and relating to crude extinction of your last island of greedy existence of self entitlement, period.
your dividends are desperate and your propaganda is only worthy of selfish panic.
it must be a hell thinking like that, day in and day out, nights included, which are dark and long, sort of, cold, lurking around getting away with murderous misdemeanors when it comes to you, causing your own kind of limited experience of life itself, wasting away and never get to the work of everyday living, are you really for war or a fight even though my consensus is you are the warrior-less warring kind dodging the shots on you while confined to living in the under-neat bunkers of fear without a chance of sustainable evolve. you will meet zapotec since it lives in many other minds, except, he is like that on your face, died fighting. who do you have? other than rusting border patrol vehicles as your 'tool' of corpse producing army of one liners power mongering on the gasolined desert heat and as if you personally preferred to join with them against the possibility of getting along with the world and helping your people live better, free of nightmare scenario management.
- oa
Why are people hiding the fact that they hate Mexicans, under a guise of illegal immigration? Atleast be honest and say the truth to Mexicans who have been hearing Europeans lies for over 500 years.
Im no politician I'm an Architect. I will say that as an architect we have a responsibility to serve the public with quality buildings. This responsibility also implies that we (architects) are supposed to be intelligent mediators.
I sincerely hope that some people posting to this are not Architects.
I don't see what all the fuss is about... I think that if they want to come to the US and contribute to society then what is the effin problem. Doesn't the statue of liberty say something along the lines of "bring me you weary and tired"... Immigration is so annoying... I think the world should have open borders so that people aren't kicked out of places they call home
perhaps I am biased because I have been living in London for a number of years and now the hot political issue is immigration... ie ME! and guess what they are making it WAY WAY WAY harder to stay and work there...
The border works both ways you know... I know countless Americans that want to live abroad but are bannish back to the States and it is heart breaking... I think the same is the case with Mexicans... if they consider the US home then why would we want to kick them out?
@LiveLoad: Listen to the self-proclaimed arbitor or sensibility carry-on about who should or shouldn't be an architect. Same person cant even post an image when the instructions for doing-so are on the bottom of the page.....
I swear some architects are so full of their own self-righteous crap they cant see the forest for the trees.
I don't think anyone here is saying that you shouldn't post the images that you do, Geertrude. But just as you're free to post your imagery, we're free to regard them with the contempt that we think they deserve.
You put up images depicting human sacrifice by people I think you presume to have us assume are Nahuatl-speakers from the valley of Mexico 500 years ago (do you really want to know what your ancesters were doing 500 years ago? how about the entire villages in Germany getting disemboweled alive 450 years ago, for daring to worship a slightly different god than the disembowelers?), or posters of zapatista revolt (against injustice in their own country, by the way, not against American interests). These images are meant not to provoke or contribute to rational debate about immigration but rather to incite populist, emotional responses. Ditto with your stories alleging rape and murder. Again, this is classic use of propaganda - meant to provoke base tribal instincts, rather than reasoned responses.
You might be an architect, but whatever you do during the day, you need to examine your motives.. I don't like illegal immigration. I think illegals here for purely economic reasons should be caught and sent back home, although I don't like AZ's heavy-handed and bigotted means of doing so. But your visual and written diatribes make me want to defend them...
Thank you - that was actually a quite reasonable read.
I think the premises of this Mexican-American debate is:
a) Southwestern Land belongs to the Mexicans / MesoAmerican-Spanish
b) America, the Republic, Belongs to the Europeans
There is an impasse, as both ideas foster nationalistic entitlement.
Both sides are equally bigoted - mutually bigoted.
So then, you must ask yourself, which would exist without the other.
My guess is that Europeans will go on to colonize some other part of the world and create another 'new world' somewhere around alaska and the USA will become another latin / multicultural / brown democracy like Ancient Rome, or Greece, etc.
Maybe 1% of Mexicans ascribe to the Aztlan view, Geertrude. Most don't.
And your second premise - the bit about North Americans belonging to Europeans - is just outright racist. Did you know that fully two thirds of arable land in California was owned and farmed by East Asians in 1860 (according to Wyatt's definitive volume on the history of race relations in the state)? Europeans with big guns came around and took most of that away from the, killing a bunch in the process.. no compensation was ever paid for this poignant demonstration of European superiority, and, to the best of my knowledge, not descendant of the victims has ever asked for compensation... nor for the mass (forced) deportations of previously legally-present Latino-Americans from the state, which soon followed (deported at gunpoint by vigilantes who wanted to steal their legally held land, not by the government).
So yeah.. go right ahead and proclaim your manifest destiny argument for a European America... I guess the victors right the history books, right? Heck, you'd probably just burn any that don't agree with your world view anyway. If y'all really want your own European leibensraum, perhaps the rest of us (who like diversity) can make a deal and give you southern Oklahoma or something, as a South African-style homeland.
I don't hate Mexicans at all - never did and never will. I hate Illegal Immigrants who don't assimilate, think the USA is [their Land], and/or paint the White Devil as the root of all Evil.....
Just think how peaceful life would be in all the places where non-white immigrants come from, if the white man didn't create such a place which lures them in...into the kingdom of hope.
this bill only allows for checking status after a legal arrest. So really its just one moe step after booking, running a satus check. The manufactured outrage over profiling and rights abuse is laughable. No one hee has even read the dam bill have they?
Well clearly you havent, so let me educate you. Lawful stop and legal arrest are not the same thing. Checking status after arrest was manditory before. Nobody had a problem with that. What this bill does is to allow a cop to stroll up and demand proof of citizenship of any old person off the street, and in fact requires them to do so should they find "reasonable suspicion" that they are an illegal immigrant. Though deliberately unspecified, based on the design of the authors, there can be little doubt what that suspicion might entail. Further, it encourages any Arizona resident to sue anyone who doesnt peruse those "suspicions" to the fullest extent of the law possible, including any and all local and federal law enforcement officers, who frankly might have better shit to do, and anyone who gives aid or shelter to illegal immigrants in "reckless" disregard for their citizenship status. This presumably requires people like doctors, lawyers, landlords, school administrators, bus drivers, grocers, cable repairmen, and anyone helping old ladies across the street to act on those "reasonable suspicions" or face civil suit from their racist fucking neighbors.
So this isnt fucking manufactured outrage. This is genuine, blistering, well deserved moral outrage over probably the most racist state policy in the US since the civil rights act. This is the Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International getting worried Arizona is going George Wallace. Immigration is down. Crime is down. So what in gods name is your excuse for turning this country into fucking tattle-tale police state?
"AZ Immigration Law"/SB 1070 - Your Thoughts?
Maybe we are all degenerating backwards, What would that be the opposite of Darwinism, I'm going to call it LiveLoadism.
What if I leave my hotel without papers or lose my wallet? How long do I have to sit in jail on charges of 'looking suspiciously illegal' while my family mails my passport and birth certificate through god knows what bureaucratic nightmare?
Im sure youre not getting this Frac. Id love hear you say that targeting people who "look illegal" in some unspecified (but doubtlessly ethnic) way to be harassed, detained, and threatened with deportation; outlawing classes meant to retain and pass on cultural knowledge (of a specific non-white sort); firing teachers for having fucking accents is really a completely benign, ethnically mute series of coincidences. I dont think you believe that. I think everyone in that state knows exactly whats going on here, that at this point this actually has nothing whatsoever to do with crime or undocumented workers, and has everything to do with shifting demographics and racial antagonism.
Jim Crow wasnt bad because some people had to walk an extra 2 feet to use a drinking fountain. It was the nature of the criteria by which those people were segregated for abuse, and the underlying cultural hatred it represented. Anyone who cant recognize that the above trend in Arizona is morally indistinguishable from that methodology simply isnt being honest with themselves.
Given the level of sudden inordinate uproar, and pervasiveness of extreme misconceptions about the actual statistical facts involved, has it occurred to people this might just be a resurgent moral panic?
If you want stats, check out
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/publications/ois_ill_pe_2009.pdf
DHS publishes an annual report on characteristics of illegal immigration. The latest report (2009) shows sharp declines in the number of illegals in the US from most countries.
All countries saw declines from 2007 to 2009. Over 400,000 Mexican illegals went home in 2009 alone, for example (leaving about 4.68 million). Only Guatemala, Honduras and India saw increases during this period. Over half of Chinese illegals have simply gone home.
Latin American countries + Phillipines + India saw growth from 2000 to 2009, led by Mexico (4.68 million to 6.65 million) but the rest of the world saw sharp declines in illegal immigration to the US. The Chinese illegal immigrant seems to be an endangered species, for example... on the current rate of decrease, they'll all be gone by next year).
Economics dictates immigrations... including illegal immigration. No jobs, no illegals. China's economy is booming, so one report has their illegals literally showing up at CBP offices en masse to turn themselves in, for that free ticket home.
sorry.. meant to say that there was an overall decline in the number of illegal immigrants from all countries together from 2007 to 2009, not that all countries saw declines. Obviously, Guatemala, Honduras and India saw growth. Everybody else had net declines, as illegals scrambled to go home rather than starve in our streets.
i really think that this problem takes care of itself over time. Recovery in job growth is supposed to take over a decade. My bet is that there won't be a whole lot of illegals left by 2020.
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-nun-slayed,0,2006402.story
http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_W_websolorza.2a571c5.html
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/23263738/detail.html#
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/19451651/detail.html#
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=10284603
for all you nativists out there, here's some food for thought:
http://www.csmonitor.com/Money/The-Daily-Reckoning/2010/0501/As-illegal-immigration-falls-is-America-in-decline
1.34 million Americans working as illegal aliens in other countries (of the 5.3 million US expats). This works both ways. And with HUGE numbers.
So the friggin' ultra-nativist set is complaining out of both sides of their mouths (if you read the comments to that article): they're upset there are illegals in the US, upset that illegals are going home 'cause that means the US is less desirable, and upset that Americans are leaving America 'cause that means the country's in decline. They need to make up their minds or shut up.
Deputies said 25-year-old Jose Antonio Maisonet stabbed his girlfriend and ran her over with his BMW SUV Saturday night near Blanchard Park in east Orange County.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/19451651/detail.html#
Additional testimony revealed that Pacheco and Kelsey were a couple and that the two had sex during the relationship. On Oct. 14, Kelsey told her parents that she was going to go for a walk, after she and her parents had a disagreement about Kelsey's relationship with Pacheco.
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=10284603
But friends say jealousy, not money, was the motive. They say Arriaga-Luna and Williams had been in a relationship, and Arriaga-Luna wanted more from her.
http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_W_websolorza.2a571c5.html
A jury recommended Wednesday that Aldana, 22, receive the death penalty for orchestrating the killing. Solorza told police Aldana asked him to help kill her, because Aldana feared she was pregnant.
Bobadilla pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter. He agreed to a 23-year prison sentence in exchange for testifying against his two co-defendants.
http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-nun-slayed,0,2006402.story
This one is not even about an illegal immigrant. That's a pity because it is the only murder that's not text book.
http://www.click2houston.com/news/23431044/detail.html#
Deputies said Raul Rodriguez, 44, who lives two homes down from the party, called the constable's office to complain about loud music coming from the home.
Not one of these stories says anything about illegals. These individuals are simply of hispanic descent (except for the navajo boy). That is absurd racial profiling.
And lastly, with the exception of one case (by the navajo teen)... these are all fairly common murders!
HERE'S FOUR WHOM NEED TO GO
Angela Laudun, 33, of Cut Off voluntarily left the Tequila Sunrise bar in Cut Off with four men early Saturday morning, Lafourche Sheriff Craig Webre said.
She agreed to trade money for sex with the men, all Mexican nationals working for Houma-based Quality Shipyards and living in company-owned quarters, he said.
...
Lafourche authorities said there are no indications the four suspects are in the country illegally.
This is a relatively common form of murder too!
seriously folks.. are our own fears and emotional responses to race so unrestrainted that we feel a need to respond to a rational discussion on immigration policy with such blatent racial fearmongering? With respect, Gertrude, that was low.
oe, re: moral panic
urbanist, why do you expect anything other than a racist discussion on a racist immigration legislature arizona passed? are you blind or trying to put a yuppie spin? i think mexicans should arm themselves and start defending their families against such organized and violent bigots.
HELLO KETTLE. WERE YOU TRYING TO CALL ME BLACK?!?!
IM OFFENDED.
WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS RACIST SHIT?!
HERP DERP! IS THERE A RACIALLY MOTIVATED PANDEMONIUM HAPPENING HERE?
HERE ARE MY THOUGHTS AND OPINIONS!
THE SHIT IS THIS?! I AM A FUCKING SAUCIER!
SACRE BLUE! IN THE OLD COUNTRY, WE DO NOT ACT LIKE THIS. WE ARE INFURIATED, OUR GOOD COOKWARES. WE DEMAND AN APOLOGY!
We'll be right back. We need a cigarette and some wine to calm ourselves.
¿QUE!?!?? AY YI YI!
肏你祖宗十八代!
wow.
SORRY, LATE 2 DA PARTY. MA' POWERSCHAIR DONE POPPED A TIRE ON THE RIDE HERE!
CALLED THEM HOVERROUND FOLKS N DEY WERE DONE NO SHOWS. HAD 2 USE MY LIFE ALERT NECKLACE I GOT ON THEM QUEER LIBERALL TBS MOVIE CHANNEL!
I HATE MEXICANS! GOD BLESS 'MERIKUH!
wow.
TIME FOR RECKONING IS COMING!!!!!!!!!
"25 Americans, on average, are killed by illegal aliens every day (about evenly split between motor vehicle accidents and outright murder).
Do the math: That works out to more than 9,000 deaths per year, or more than 36,000 deaths over the past four years. That's more than ten times the number of Americans killed in Iraq over the past four years"
Some will argue that the statistic represent a general number applied over all of population, but simplistically, eliminating Illegal immigrants would have saved 36,000 lives. Simple math.
source?
Your strange math is actually pretty funny, Geertrude, considering the homicide (including vehicular homicide) rate in this country is about 45 per day, according to the FBI.
I think xenophobic congressman Steve King (R-Klan) cited some figure last year that 12 homicides are committed by illegal immigrants each day, and he was widely accused (by experts) of making up his numbers. Literally making them up.. from thin air.
Funny because it's True?
I'm surprised you are able to compose yourself with such matter-of-fact rebuttal, considering which side of the argument you are on, and also considering how much the truth must hurt you.
Sorry, it's true.
The immigration act of 1967 was designed to limit European immigration.....it's obvious to 75% of america (that's a real figure, urbenis) thinks there are too many third-worl immigrants here, illegally.
That was weird.
But yea, Frac, I mean, I guess if you dont think racism is bad, that institutionalizing it is totally acceptable, then your opinion on this makes complete sense.
1965, sorry - I have fat fingers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Immigration_Act_of_1965
hi guys how do add pictures in here?
I can build anything with computer programs, but don't ask me how to add pictures in archinect.
hung-drawn-quarter.jpg
quarter_2.jpg
didnt work oh well
fighting against getting help to cope with all the fear and hatred, (your) information shows you have been doing badly, your sketchy assessments are not very good, 'you think' people coming after your livelihood of assumed 'owning' but real life is more co-operatively earned and populated than you paint and broadcast, your mathematical ideas unimaginatively dwelling on even more irrelevancy and eventually located in the losing end of those very snake oil statistics. you will remain minority within the bending blinders of your own mind and relating to crude extinction of your last island of greedy existence of self entitlement, period.
your dividends are desperate and your propaganda is only worthy of selfish panic.
it must be a hell thinking like that, day in and day out, nights included, which are dark and long, sort of, cold, lurking around getting away with murderous misdemeanors when it comes to you, causing your own kind of limited experience of life itself, wasting away and never get to the work of everyday living, are you really for war or a fight even though my consensus is you are the warrior-less warring kind dodging the shots on you while confined to living in the under-neat bunkers of fear without a chance of sustainable evolve. you will meet zapotec since it lives in many other minds, except, he is like that on your face, died fighting. who do you have? other than rusting border patrol vehicles as your 'tool' of corpse producing army of one liners power mongering on the gasolined desert heat and as if you personally preferred to join with them against the possibility of getting along with the world and helping your people live better, free of nightmare scenario management.
- oa
your post, orhan, reminds me of this very beautifully written book, which I read recently , on a similar subject
Pedophile Illegal Immigrant awarded $3.5 million lawsuit after getting what he deserved in jail
Why are people hiding the fact that they hate Mexicans, under a guise of illegal immigration? Atleast be honest and say the truth to Mexicans who have been hearing Europeans lies for over 500 years.
Im no politician I'm an Architect. I will say that as an architect we have a responsibility to serve the public with quality buildings. This responsibility also implies that we (architects) are supposed to be intelligent mediators.
I sincerely hope that some people posting to this are not Architects.
I don't see what all the fuss is about... I think that if they want to come to the US and contribute to society then what is the effin problem. Doesn't the statue of liberty say something along the lines of "bring me you weary and tired"... Immigration is so annoying... I think the world should have open borders so that people aren't kicked out of places they call home
perhaps I am biased because I have been living in London for a number of years and now the hot political issue is immigration... ie ME! and guess what they are making it WAY WAY WAY harder to stay and work there...
The border works both ways you know... I know countless Americans that want to live abroad but are bannish back to the States and it is heart breaking... I think the same is the case with Mexicans... if they consider the US home then why would we want to kick them out?
@LiveLoad: Listen to the self-proclaimed arbitor or sensibility carry-on about who should or shouldn't be an architect. Same person cant even post an image when the instructions for doing-so are on the bottom of the page.....
I swear some architects are so full of their own self-righteous crap they cant see the forest for the trees.
I don't think anyone here is saying that you shouldn't post the images that you do, Geertrude. But just as you're free to post your imagery, we're free to regard them with the contempt that we think they deserve.
You put up images depicting human sacrifice by people I think you presume to have us assume are Nahuatl-speakers from the valley of Mexico 500 years ago (do you really want to know what your ancesters were doing 500 years ago? how about the entire villages in Germany getting disemboweled alive 450 years ago, for daring to worship a slightly different god than the disembowelers?), or posters of zapatista revolt (against injustice in their own country, by the way, not against American interests). These images are meant not to provoke or contribute to rational debate about immigration but rather to incite populist, emotional responses. Ditto with your stories alleging rape and murder. Again, this is classic use of propaganda - meant to provoke base tribal instincts, rather than reasoned responses.
You might be an architect, but whatever you do during the day, you need to examine your motives.. I don't like illegal immigration. I think illegals here for purely economic reasons should be caught and sent back home, although I don't like AZ's heavy-handed and bigotted means of doing so. But your visual and written diatribes make me want to defend them...
Thank you - that was actually a quite reasonable read.
I think the premises of this Mexican-American debate is:
a) Southwestern Land belongs to the Mexicans / MesoAmerican-Spanish
b) America, the Republic, Belongs to the Europeans
There is an impasse, as both ideas foster nationalistic entitlement.
Both sides are equally bigoted - mutually bigoted.
So then, you must ask yourself, which would exist without the other.
My guess is that Europeans will go on to colonize some other part of the world and create another 'new world' somewhere around alaska and the USA will become another latin / multicultural / brown democracy like Ancient Rome, or Greece, etc.
Maybe 1% of Mexicans ascribe to the Aztlan view, Geertrude. Most don't.
And your second premise - the bit about North Americans belonging to Europeans - is just outright racist. Did you know that fully two thirds of arable land in California was owned and farmed by East Asians in 1860 (according to Wyatt's definitive volume on the history of race relations in the state)? Europeans with big guns came around and took most of that away from the, killing a bunch in the process.. no compensation was ever paid for this poignant demonstration of European superiority, and, to the best of my knowledge, not descendant of the victims has ever asked for compensation... nor for the mass (forced) deportations of previously legally-present Latino-Americans from the state, which soon followed (deported at gunpoint by vigilantes who wanted to steal their legally held land, not by the government).
So yeah.. go right ahead and proclaim your manifest destiny argument for a European America... I guess the victors right the history books, right? Heck, you'd probably just burn any that don't agree with your world view anyway. If y'all really want your own European leibensraum, perhaps the rest of us (who like diversity) can make a deal and give you southern Oklahoma or something, as a South African-style homeland.
Whats the matter Geert rude,
Are you going to admit you hate Mexicans? or what?
I don't hate Mexicans at all - never did and never will. I hate Illegal Immigrants who don't assimilate, think the USA is [their Land], and/or paint the White Devil as the root of all Evil.....
Just think how peaceful life would be in all the places where non-white immigrants come from, if the white man didn't create such a place which lures them in...into the kingdom of hope.
whatever.. I'm done. Enjoy your white sheet.
I'll just leave you with the mugshot of a fully assimilated, native-born, white American, to contemplate:
It's the booking photo for Pennsylvanian Colleen LaRose, after she was arrested for being an Islamic terrorist....
whatever.. I'm done. Enjoy your brown sheet.
I'll just leave you with the mugshot of a fully assimilated, native-born, brown American, to contemplate:
It's the booking photo for Illinoisian Jose Padilla, after he was arrested for being an Islamic terrorist....
this bill only allows for checking status after a legal arrest. So really its just one moe step after booking, running a satus check. The manufactured outrage over profiling and rights abuse is laughable. No one hee has even read the dam bill have they?
Sorry fat finges here's and no spel check
Well clearly you havent, so let me educate you. Lawful stop and legal arrest are not the same thing. Checking status after arrest was manditory before. Nobody had a problem with that. What this bill does is to allow a cop to stroll up and demand proof of citizenship of any old person off the street, and in fact requires them to do so should they find "reasonable suspicion" that they are an illegal immigrant. Though deliberately unspecified, based on the design of the authors, there can be little doubt what that suspicion might entail. Further, it encourages any Arizona resident to sue anyone who doesnt peruse those "suspicions" to the fullest extent of the law possible, including any and all local and federal law enforcement officers, who frankly might have better shit to do, and anyone who gives aid or shelter to illegal immigrants in "reckless" disregard for their citizenship status. This presumably requires people like doctors, lawyers, landlords, school administrators, bus drivers, grocers, cable repairmen, and anyone helping old ladies across the street to act on those "reasonable suspicions" or face civil suit from their racist fucking neighbors.
Were also now purging teachers for having accents and banning the teaching of history from a non-white perspective. I dont know if you know anything about the history of racial policy in the world, but I'll tell you, as far as the last 60 years goes, this is some pretty fucked up shit.
So this isnt fucking manufactured outrage. This is genuine, blistering, well deserved moral outrage over probably the most racist state policy in the US since the civil rights act. This is the Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International getting worried Arizona is going George Wallace. Immigration is down. Crime is down. So what in gods name is your excuse for turning this country into fucking tattle-tale police state?
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