liveload, i do it a lot, i even get paid doing it. but ultimately the choice belongs to the individual as to which thought process he/she wants to attend.
there are two groups of people posting in this thread; people who are looking beyond the crime scene scenario of who dunnit and there are others who are looking via "white power versus what" polemics.
i am more with the former group. i also follow them when they talk about architecture, urbanism, planning and politics of our profession. those people have analytical way of looking at a problem and more prone to bring new ideas and solutions in.
in short the reminder bit leads to;
it is a rapidly changing world and it is like water everywhere. if you seal your area against that water, you are also deeming yourself on a dry patch. eventually levee will brake and when it is like that, it comes with some tragedy.
we need to come up with structures and applications those integrate and resolve the challenges and new conditions via the planning knowledge and design know-how. that is pretty much our job as designers in 21st century. i don't want and be set back by a thought of caulking things up continuously as my life long purpose and work.
what will it be then? a crime scene proof reader in harrison county? the guy works around with a caulking gun all day, patching the levee? or an architect?
in this forum, almost everybody invested more time in architecture.
onto related emigration issue;
i have an interest in the idea of nation states evolving into city state metropolises with their own sovereign and probably virtual and complex borders in this century. at this rate, a new immigration aspect and changing population demographics of the world will get a lot more interesting and heterogeneous.
it is not much different for a mexican or a turk to emigrate to mexico city or istanbul, to los angeles or berlin. it is a lot more porous than thought.
I totally agree with you on that point you made when you said " you are supposed to be an architect not a proof reader in harrison county."
but there are so many deep rooted forms of racism in this country, and just talk a look at paradoxx she has a green card and she hates illegals, the wheel goes round and round.
as I tried to say above, it all depends on what kind of country you want live in.
Somebody above babbled:
"So. as an "original" "white" person of this country, I'd prefer you not try to chastise and criticize social changes that have taken two to three centuries to achieve"
Hey.. what do you think of this? I've been told that my ancestors in Cali straddle both sides of Guadelupe Hidalgo.. Maybe I should advocate that whites, Latinos, Asians and anyone else who came after they came be thrown out, the original legal land grants be re-instituted (before whites with guns game to take them from the whites, Asians and Latinos who were there before) and the land be expropritated from their current owners and returned to those descendants who still hold legal deeds from that period (I heard my grandpa had a few of those, for stolen land, locked up somewhere), and that the descendants of those thrown out of the country in a series of illegal shotgun mass-deportations from 1850 to 1930 (mainly Latinos and Asians, some whites, and many of us mixed-blood types.. yes, I'm part Irish too) be given all of your expropriated property. It's not a racial issue. At least until Native Americans show up to make the same argument against us, but, then again, they may not have the deeds to prove ownership.
I'm just trying to point out the ridiculousness of the "Americas for whites" arguments some have made here.
Guys, Im sure you think this is all very clever. But youre not the first bunch of xenophobic fuckwads to run this routine. Everyone from Mussolini to David Duke has pulled this same shit. You drum up this endless ooze of anecdotal trumped up bullshit to reinforce some thinly veiled racial prejudice in order to demonize a group of people who have nothing to do with the actual problems you have. You have to do that, because the real statistics and the actual world around you doesnt back up your bullshit. So you dream up this confabulated emotional projection and contort your face to swear this has nothing to do with race, because what you actually think doesnt stand to public human decency. I assume it must bother you somewhere deep down, right? To wallow around in some hateful anxious dreamworld?
oe-oe-oh:
Jut think of the social leed points you can get by reducing the population (on this side of the border) by One Million Souls.
Seriously though, next time you are crying in your beer, in the UK or from wherever you spout your self-loathing anti-White-America crapola, think about what it will do for the economy. America doesn't need as many lettuce-pickers or whatever workers-here-to-do-the-jobs-americans-won't-do as we currently have - with all fairness to the great Mexican population of the USA, the illegals, and from whatever country need to go. Call it what you want - I call it smart.
"xenophobic"..oe you accused ME of being xenophobic too without knowing anything about me.I live in NY and soon be moving to NYC,probably to Brooklyn area where the people are all mixed.We have asians,blacks,latinos,europeans,east indians all living together.Each of these groups tend to have their own neighborhoods but in general people are completely used to the multiculturalism over here and that is one of the main reasons I love and stay in NY.You can just go out wearing a sari and nobody will turn and look at you or will accuse you of not wearing "westernish" clothes.I particularly admire asian and east indian people because they are very hard working people and contribute a lot to this country (and pay taxes which is awesome!) and the crime is very very low among these people.I see most of them obey the laws completely.I tend to get along better with these people because in terms of cultural backgrounds we tend to be more similar than white American folks here but in general I have friends from every race.
I was spending hella lot of time on an immigration forum before my citizenship interview because I had received a speeding ticket and I was anxious if it would create a problem during the interview.They created a separate thread in that forum just for traffic tickets and the thread has the most posts compared to the other ones.We were all discussing how receiving a traffic ticket and not declaring it on the N400(naturalization) form would damage our "good moral character".In the interview the immigration officer asked if I have ever been arrested and I said "no but I received a traffic ticket for speeding".She wanted to see the traffic citation and I showed her the court disposition along with the paid receipt.In the article Frac posted it says the guy has been here for 6 years and didn't even bother to learn English.I also had to pass an English and US History test in the interview.
All of us people who apply for naturalization have to get out fingerprints taken,they do an extensive FBI background check on us which takes months. Getting citizenship is a very long,tough and stressful process but it is how things work over here and I must respect that.
Coming here illegally damages the society because there is no background check on these people.They are undocumented.How would you feel an immigrant without a DL caused a traffic accident and killed your mother,and ran away without facing the consequences? How do you think all these 20 million illegals will contribute to the society with their lack of education? It is true that they are needed for some jobs that Americans won't do but the thing is...we don't need 20 million people for those jobs! Who is going to pay for these people's expenses? You?
A person on another website stated "if some LEGAL citizen here breaks the law no matter how minor and no matter the mitigating circumstances (Lindsay Lohan) everyone screams "Hang 'em High!" but when an ILLEGAL breaks the law everyone wants to give them a break and allow them to continue to break the law. I really believe that IQ's in this country are not what they use to be, everyone’s emotions are overriding their intellect. WAKE UP!"
Totally agree with her.
All the nations,from Saudi Arabia to Sweden have immigrations laws.Accusing some people who are against illegal immigration of being xenophobic is retarded because god knows I have no problem with hispanic people.They enrich the multiculturalism here but if anybody enters this country illegally,doesn't respect the law,doesn't bother to learn the language,drops the wages by working off the book I say DEPORT THEIR ASSES OUT OF THIS COUNTRY!
Also if you run into one, ask a native American how the lack of laws and regulations worked out for them. lol
Paradox now your taking a cheap shot at the native Americans? where you do get all your numbers from , the flee market or something, and you are a Latina, in Mexico people would call you another "malinche" look it up if you don't know what it is. and congratulations on your interview to be a citizen.
i'm not an illegal but i don't like how much of a bitch you are.
why you so hostile toward someone who comes to the u.s. legally, LL?
if you think we are all illegal immigrants (paraphrasing a common viewpoint among open borders people) then when are you going back from where you came?
go ahead LiveLoad...keep revealing what a Hostile, racist ass you are.
If you were about multiculturalism, then your "Ancestors" would have figured out a way to live with the Gringos. After all, they only came here for freedom from Religious Persecution and to Work....
dont you have Minute men meeting to go to you racist bitch.
PS my family is living quite well with "gringos", and you say they came here for religious persecution, do some reading you dumb ass bitch on what was happening on this continent during the 1500's.
Genocide was what happened you dumb ass bitch. So much Genocide that it makes Hitler look like a saint.
and "obviously good looking young women who are not even close to being qualified to work in architecture?"
You're surrounded by people you hate. Upsetting to you.
in the mean time i'm not upset that you or any of your other pals hate illegal immigrants, what does bother me is that you guys are in Architecture, and you promote hate. you are a disgrace to the profession. And in the mean time our enemies abroad are preparing to level us you right wing idiots are distracted so easily.
to frac and orhan, on the pervert molester. What that case was really about is the failure of ICE and Homeland Security in general to enforce the undesirable aliens deportation provisions that already exist in Federal law. Once the slimeball finishes his sentence in an American prison, Federal law requires that he be taken straight from jail to a detention center, and straight from there to deportation.. this should've happened regardless of whether he is a legal immigrant applicant or illegal immigrant, so long as he does not have the legal rights conveyed by a green card, by the way. He should've been expelled straightaway.
This case has very little if anything to do with the AZ law. It has everything to do with Feds screwing up and not enforcing those laws that are already on the books.
by the way, I don't put all of you pro-AZ law types in quite the same light.
- frac raises some good points, and I think he is mostly about immigration enforcement, which I don't fundamentally have a problem with. I just disagree with him on this particular law, as well as on the utility of strengthening border walls. But I kinda get where he's coming from. We just don't fully agree.
- Parad0xx86, perhaps even more than frac, is about immigration enforcement, and as an admitted legal immigrant, he does have a leg to stand on, so to speak, when he complains that people who managed to skirt the same process he went through, appear sometimes to be getting many of the same privileges without going through the same waitlists and paperwork. I don't see things the same way he does because I'm not an immigrant, and there's nobody within half dozen generations on either side of me who was one, so I can't say I get what he's saying, at any deep personal level, but intellectually, there is a certain logic to it.
- Rude just acts and sounds like a mid-20th century bigot. Her posts have NOTHING to do about immigration enforcement and reform and only about race. Even those that talk about the AZ law and illegal aliens have a clear undertone of racism and racial supremacy in them. My personal suspicion is that she's really a hardcore immigrant activist (probably a pro-Aztlan irredentist/separatist!) trying to get us excited. I call her out as a fraud. Nobody holds opinions like that anymore, really. She is the personification of a left wing caricature of a white bigot.
I just find it sad. I honestly dont understand how people, with everything going on right now, find it necessary to focus all their animosity on immigrants. Weve got bankers and hedge funds blowing our kids future away in an electronic coke-binge casino, kids burning alive in Iraq and Afghanistan for god knows what, Oil companies lathering up half the southern coast in crude oil, I mean shit is fucked up. But no. Thats not the problem. The real problem is all those mexicans. Dont put the national guard cleaning oil off the gulf coast, lets instead spend a billion dollars to have them wander around out in the desert arresting maids and daylaborers. If you just think the US should seal up and ignore the world, fine, whatever, we can have a discussion about whether thats crazy or not. But if you self-declare that you "Hate" immigrants? If you find it necessary to construct your entire online persona around Ramos and Compean? It isnt just absurd. Its suspicious. Im more honest than most. I dont buy all this disingenuous bullshit about "its about the money". Their numbers dont add up and they know it. If you dont think firing teachers for having accents is xenophobic, if you really think everything going on in Arizona is some big misunderstood coincidence, then youre fucking braindead. I dont think Frac is braindead. I think he knows exactly what this is, and either wont admit it to us, or wont admit it to himself. I dont know which is worse.
I just fucking hate this shell game. I hate seeing otherwise completely reasonable rational people get sucked into this dimwitted, ignorant con passing itself on as conservatism. Worried about a sustainable growing economy? Worried about waste and national debt? Great! Me too. We can all have very reasonable conversations about that. Instead though, were stuck on totally fucking vacuous non-problems like immigrants and gays because morons followed the bright light of conservatism into the fucking bug-zapper. Weve got this craven gang of fat, drugged-out, corrupt assholes like Rush Limbaugh and JD Hayworth telling us, oh no, the debt isnt because Goldman Sachs shorted your fucking pension fund, it isnt because were handing 20% of our GDP over to parasitic middlemen in the insurance industry, it isnt because Joe Lieberman spent 50 billion on a laser-plane or because Bush dumped a trillion dollars into the Iraqi desert for no reason. Its all those damned brown people. Its "welfare queens". Its "Anchor babies". Thats the problem. Pay no attention to those guys moving bags of money behind us, just focus all your hatred on shit that makes no sense or difference whatsoever. It genuinely boggles me that people can be so stupid.
oe, I really appreciate that you make the effort to repeat throughout the many political discussions here on archinect these sane and simple things, because you seem to genuinely want to educate others, not just to challenge.
because, otherwise, "Studies of group psychology show that when people with similar views talk to one another, they end up at even more extreme positions. The very ability to choose - neighborhoods, cable TV stations, websites, churches - increases the risk that we will hear only those with whom we already agree."
My state accepted that you couldn't stop it. Now as a sanctuary state and a state that targets abusers of immigrants, it has substantially lower percentage of illegal immigrants than Arizona and Texas do.
And while you'll see impressive photos of some impressive border fences, the majority of New Mexico's border fence is this:
Which, at a cost of like $0.08 a foot... That's like $500 a mile versus $8 million a mile? The cost savings along could employ 319 people at $25,000 a year. Stretch that over 2000 miles, that's 638,000 jobs.
Not to mention, border fences do nothing as the number of extensive (and long) tunnels that run under the border between El Paso and Juarez.
Here's my theory. I think it's because of the old straw man game. If you're an unemployable, semi-literate teabagger and you're sitting shirtless and toothless in front of your TV massaging your beer belly, contemplating the death of all of your dreams, both personally and for the country, you need a diversion.. someone to blame.
Now who? You hate all foreigners of course, and you consider any brown person a foreigner - even those whose ancestors 12 generations back had the misfortune of being sold into Mississippi for a few jugs of rum, while your own ancestors were still getting whipped in Sicily for failing to fall on their knees fast enough in front of their local nobleman. But you know American Blacks will fight back and expose you for the coward you are if you attack them publicly, you know that East or South Asians hold your mortgage and own the factory you aspire to one day make minimum wage in, and you've already burned out/chased out/scared away any Arabs or Persians in your neighborhood... so you just find it easier to attack Latinos.
I forgot to say, congrats on your citizenship Paradox. Im breathing flame right now because I dont think the thing in arizona is fair or right, and I dont think people are acknowledging just how bad it is, but that has nothing to do with your achievements.
I do respect you guys and your right to your own opinion. I just wish people could look out at the end result of some of this stuff and really weigh honestly whether the cure might be worse than the illness.
the end result will be an entire country of working-class mexicans, middle-eastern ans somalian Cab drivers, Polish construction workers, and chinese textile workers. It seems the Indian bankers and doctors are the only ones following the correct path.
TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER II > Part VIII > § 1325
§ 1325. Improper entry by alien
(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who
(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or
(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties
Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.
"I just wish people could look out at the end result of some of this stuff and really weigh honestly whether the cure might be worse than the illness."
Don't worry oe.The cure won't be worse than the illness.As you can see Arizona is trying to do what the Federal government needs to but WON'T do.I see you're flaming every time the topic of race comes up and often flame unnecessarily because the topic actually has nothing to do with race i.e. the Tiger Woods discussion.
"Im breathing flame right now" Same here.I'm tired of overly politically correct people pushing the race card down to my throat every chance they get.People today are much more tolerant to other cultures and much less racist compared to the people in the past.Nobody is going after some races with torches and torture them. All the races have equal rights in this country and they have the right to do many things.(only if they are citizens or lawful permanent citizens or have visas)
The United States can only support a certain number of immigrants a year. Even the US system has limits... so they need to wait their turn, just like all of the legal immigrants that come to this country each year.
wow paradox, you talk shit about the Native Americans while laughing out loud, and then get upset when people call you out on the fact that your Hispanic?
Paradox said:
"Also if you run into one, ask a native American how the lack of laws and regulations worked out for them. lol"
"People today are much more tolerant to other cultures and much less racist compared to the people in the past.Nobody is going after some races with torches and torture them. All the races have equal rights in this country and they have the right to do many things.(only if they are citizens or lawful permanent citizens or have visas"
if you think that Hispanics in this country are accepted as equals whether citizens or not you are misguided and stupid.
You just became a citizen, My family has been in the USA for over a hundred years, we have integrated well, we even know about a relative that fought in the Alamo against Mexico! relatives have fought and died for this country, but when bigots or Malinche Uncle Toms like you show up and do a double talk about hating illegals with an undertone against all Hispanics, specifically Mexicans guess what? white bigots do not distinguish between those of us that have been here as long as my family has, or people like you who just got here today, or the Mexicans crossing here illegally.
And then you blast the Native Americans. Thanks for adding to the hatred in this country, as if we don't have enough of that already.
now do us all a favor and go educate yourself on being nice to your fellow americans especially the Natives.
Damn, I hate to weigh in on these threads...it's not worth it...it just isnt...but:
Yea, paradox, keep quoting chapters and sub-chapters. I don't know about you, but when I'm looking down at my kids and they have an empty plate and a bloated stomach, I'm gonna go anywhere there's a possibility of making some money...fuck the laws. Hell, for most of those people the most dangerous part of the journey is crossing that fucking desert, knowing there's a very good chance they won't make it: you really think they give a fuck about some sub-chapters of law? I would do the same fucking thing, at the risk of jail time and deportation, to feed my family, and there's people all over the world that are willing to do it as we speak to get to many countries that are not the USA.
And another thing: let me get this straight, the people that came here and took this country from the natives living here, killing off most of them and putting the rest in dead-end reservations and burying them under 20 feet of bureaucracy, then kidnapped free peoples in Africa and brought them here as slaves, they were the legal immigrants, yea? and these poor fucking people crossing deserts at the risk of their lives to earn pitiful wages so their families back home won't starve, they're the devil incarnate, is that right? Bring me a bucket right now.....
"AZ Immigration Law"/SB 1070 - Your Thoughts?
The Wages of Whiteness: Race and the Making of the American Working Class by David R. Roediger
READ IT, PARADOX. I MINORED IN THIS EXACT CONVERSATION.
PS. I AM ALSO FROM 40 MILES FROM THE MEXICAN BORDER IN NEW MEXICO.
NEW MEXICO HAS SOME OF THE SOFTEST IMMIGRATION POLICIES AND THE LEAST AMOUNT PER CAPITA OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.
IT ALSO HAS THE LOWEST INCIDENCE OF ORGANIZED CRIME.
HUR DUR.
ANYONE ELSE HERE FROM AN ACTUAL BORDER CITY?
you know mr. tantrum,
You could have explained that she is an "uncle tom".
regarding the 'be an architect' reminder by me.
liveload, i do it a lot, i even get paid doing it. but ultimately the choice belongs to the individual as to which thought process he/she wants to attend.
there are two groups of people posting in this thread; people who are looking beyond the crime scene scenario of who dunnit and there are others who are looking via "white power versus what" polemics.
i am more with the former group. i also follow them when they talk about architecture, urbanism, planning and politics of our profession. those people have analytical way of looking at a problem and more prone to bring new ideas and solutions in.
in short the reminder bit leads to;
it is a rapidly changing world and it is like water everywhere. if you seal your area against that water, you are also deeming yourself on a dry patch. eventually levee will brake and when it is like that, it comes with some tragedy.
we need to come up with structures and applications those integrate and resolve the challenges and new conditions via the planning knowledge and design know-how. that is pretty much our job as designers in 21st century. i don't want and be set back by a thought of caulking things up continuously as my life long purpose and work.
what will it be then? a crime scene proof reader in harrison county? the guy works around with a caulking gun all day, patching the levee? or an architect?
in this forum, almost everybody invested more time in architecture.
onto related emigration issue;
i have an interest in the idea of nation states evolving into city state metropolises with their own sovereign and probably virtual and complex borders in this century. at this rate, a new immigration aspect and changing population demographics of the world will get a lot more interesting and heterogeneous.
it is not much different for a mexican or a turk to emigrate to mexico city or istanbul, to los angeles or berlin. it is a lot more porous than thought.
I totally agree with you on that point you made when you said " you are supposed to be an architect not a proof reader in harrison county."
but there are so many deep rooted forms of racism in this country, and just talk a look at paradoxx she has a green card and she hates illegals, the wheel goes round and round.
ps replace the word talk with the word "take"
i thought you did. how couldn't you after that mexican bus ride ruined by a redneck bus patrol? it is like racial molestation!
as I tried to say above, it all depends on what kind of country you want live in.
Somebody above babbled:
"So. as an "original" "white" person of this country, I'd prefer you not try to chastise and criticize social changes that have taken two to three centuries to achieve"
Hey.. what do you think of this? I've been told that my ancestors in Cali straddle both sides of Guadelupe Hidalgo.. Maybe I should advocate that whites, Latinos, Asians and anyone else who came after they came be thrown out, the original legal land grants be re-instituted (before whites with guns game to take them from the whites, Asians and Latinos who were there before) and the land be expropritated from their current owners and returned to those descendants who still hold legal deeds from that period (I heard my grandpa had a few of those, for stolen land, locked up somewhere), and that the descendants of those thrown out of the country in a series of illegal shotgun mass-deportations from 1850 to 1930 (mainly Latinos and Asians, some whites, and many of us mixed-blood types.. yes, I'm part Irish too) be given all of your expropriated property. It's not a racial issue. At least until Native Americans show up to make the same argument against us, but, then again, they may not have the deeds to prove ownership.
I'm just trying to point out the ridiculousness of the "Americas for whites" arguments some have made here.
here's a couple more recent illegal alien criminal cases:
ConMan, murderer, student
Pro-illegal / sanctuary irony
I think we should start a thread where we blame Frac and Geertrude personally every time a white person does something awful.
there's a BP oil leak thread where you can do that: http://www.archinect.com/forum/threads.php?id=98826_0_42_0_C
Go ahead an apply your supreme intelligence to something useful.
my links blame the awful people who do explicity awful things, btw.
for oe: facing deportation for stopping crime
*sniff, sob*
Off topic..becoming a US citizen in 20 days.Wheeeeeee! :D
congratulations Parad0xx86 show everyone those papers !!
Guys, Im sure you think this is all very clever. But youre not the first bunch of xenophobic fuckwads to run this routine. Everyone from Mussolini to David Duke has pulled this same shit. You drum up this endless ooze of anecdotal trumped up bullshit to reinforce some thinly veiled racial prejudice in order to demonize a group of people who have nothing to do with the actual problems you have. You have to do that, because the real statistics and the actual world around you doesnt back up your bullshit. So you dream up this confabulated emotional projection and contort your face to swear this has nothing to do with race, because what you actually think doesnt stand to public human decency. I assume it must bother you somewhere deep down, right? To wallow around in some hateful anxious dreamworld?
oe-oe-oh:
Jut think of the social leed points you can get by reducing the population (on this side of the border) by One Million Souls.
Seriously though, next time you are crying in your beer, in the UK or from wherever you spout your self-loathing anti-White-America crapola, think about what it will do for the economy. America doesn't need as many lettuce-pickers or whatever workers-here-to-do-the-jobs-americans-won't-do as we currently have - with all fairness to the great Mexican population of the USA, the illegals, and from whatever country need to go. Call it what you want - I call it smart.
oe: So anyone who advocates control of national borders is a xenophobe, and a secret racist?
"xenophobic"..oe you accused ME of being xenophobic too without knowing anything about me.I live in NY and soon be moving to NYC,probably to Brooklyn area where the people are all mixed.We have asians,blacks,latinos,europeans,east indians all living together.Each of these groups tend to have their own neighborhoods but in general people are completely used to the multiculturalism over here and that is one of the main reasons I love and stay in NY.You can just go out wearing a sari and nobody will turn and look at you or will accuse you of not wearing "westernish" clothes.I particularly admire asian and east indian people because they are very hard working people and contribute a lot to this country (and pay taxes which is awesome!) and the crime is very very low among these people.I see most of them obey the laws completely.I tend to get along better with these people because in terms of cultural backgrounds we tend to be more similar than white American folks here but in general I have friends from every race.
I was spending hella lot of time on an immigration forum before my citizenship interview because I had received a speeding ticket and I was anxious if it would create a problem during the interview.They created a separate thread in that forum just for traffic tickets and the thread has the most posts compared to the other ones.We were all discussing how receiving a traffic ticket and not declaring it on the N400(naturalization) form would damage our "good moral character".In the interview the immigration officer asked if I have ever been arrested and I said "no but I received a traffic ticket for speeding".She wanted to see the traffic citation and I showed her the court disposition along with the paid receipt.In the article Frac posted it says the guy has been here for 6 years and didn't even bother to learn English.I also had to pass an English and US History test in the interview.
All of us people who apply for naturalization have to get out fingerprints taken,they do an extensive FBI background check on us which takes months. Getting citizenship is a very long,tough and stressful process but it is how things work over here and I must respect that.
Coming here illegally damages the society because there is no background check on these people.They are undocumented.How would you feel an immigrant without a DL caused a traffic accident and killed your mother,and ran away without facing the consequences? How do you think all these 20 million illegals will contribute to the society with their lack of education? It is true that they are needed for some jobs that Americans won't do but the thing is...we don't need 20 million people for those jobs! Who is going to pay for these people's expenses? You?
A person on another website stated "if some LEGAL citizen here breaks the law no matter how minor and no matter the mitigating circumstances (Lindsay Lohan) everyone screams "Hang 'em High!" but when an ILLEGAL breaks the law everyone wants to give them a break and allow them to continue to break the law. I really believe that IQ's in this country are not what they use to be, everyone’s emotions are overriding their intellect. WAKE UP!"
Totally agree with her.
All the nations,from Saudi Arabia to Sweden have immigrations laws.Accusing some people who are against illegal immigration of being xenophobic is retarded because god knows I have no problem with hispanic people.They enrich the multiculturalism here but if anybody enters this country illegally,doesn't respect the law,doesn't bother to learn the language,drops the wages by working off the book I say DEPORT THEIR ASSES OUT OF THIS COUNTRY!
Also if you run into one, ask a native American how the lack of laws and regulations worked out for them. lol
Paradox now your taking a cheap shot at the native Americans? where you do get all your numbers from , the flee market or something, and you are a Latina, in Mexico people would call you another "malinche" look it up if you don't know what it is. and congratulations on your interview to be a citizen.
i'm not an illegal but i don't like how much of a bitch you are.
you are a bitch
i was so upset by your Uncle Tom talk look at all the misspelling you cause me to make shame on you,
we have enough hatred in this country why dont you take your sorry hating ass back to where you came from
why you so hostile toward someone who comes to the u.s. legally, LL?
if you think we are all illegal immigrants (paraphrasing a common viewpoint among open borders people) then when are you going back from where you came?
who ever talked about open borders ? why don't you go back to Europe my ancestors have been on this continent since the ice age you fucking asshole.
you and paradox should get married then you can pass on your hatred of other people to your little hating babies.
woah you mad, huh?
nothing is more upsetting to me then an Uncle Tom, that is worst than a KKK member.
go ahead LiveLoad...keep revealing what a Hostile, racist ass you are.
If you were about multiculturalism, then your "Ancestors" would have figured out a way to live with the Gringos. After all, they only came here for freedom from Religious Persecution and to Work....
Whats even more upsetting is that my profession of architecture is full of ignorant motherfuckers like you and that bitch paradox.
Geert - rude
dont you have Minute men meeting to go to you racist bitch.
PS my family is living quite well with "gringos", and you say they came here for religious persecution, do some reading you dumb ass bitch on what was happening on this continent during the 1500's.
Genocide was what happened you dumb ass bitch. So much Genocide that it makes Hitler look like a saint.
and "obviously good looking young women who are not even close to being qualified to work in architecture?"
You're surrounded by people you hate. Upsetting to you.
whoa you better go get an mri after that come back, you might have devoloped a brain tumor.
ps i dont hate anyone.
you know me about as well as the strangers you pass every day Gert rude.
Before you make anymore claims about your ancestors being slaughtered, think about the impossibility of being born without ancestors.
I do know who my ancestors were.
in the mean time i'm not upset that you or any of your other pals hate illegal immigrants, what does bother me is that you guys are in Architecture, and you promote hate. you are a disgrace to the profession. And in the mean time our enemies abroad are preparing to level us you right wing idiots are distracted so easily.
i guess thats my main point.
Illegal Immigration is not the cause of our economy's state of affair, We have much bigger problems that run into the trillions overseas.
to frac and orhan, on the pervert molester. What that case was really about is the failure of ICE and Homeland Security in general to enforce the undesirable aliens deportation provisions that already exist in Federal law. Once the slimeball finishes his sentence in an American prison, Federal law requires that he be taken straight from jail to a detention center, and straight from there to deportation.. this should've happened regardless of whether he is a legal immigrant applicant or illegal immigrant, so long as he does not have the legal rights conveyed by a green card, by the way. He should've been expelled straightaway.
This case has very little if anything to do with the AZ law. It has everything to do with Feds screwing up and not enforcing those laws that are already on the books.
by the way, I don't put all of you pro-AZ law types in quite the same light.
- frac raises some good points, and I think he is mostly about immigration enforcement, which I don't fundamentally have a problem with. I just disagree with him on this particular law, as well as on the utility of strengthening border walls. But I kinda get where he's coming from. We just don't fully agree.
- Parad0xx86, perhaps even more than frac, is about immigration enforcement, and as an admitted legal immigrant, he does have a leg to stand on, so to speak, when he complains that people who managed to skirt the same process he went through, appear sometimes to be getting many of the same privileges without going through the same waitlists and paperwork. I don't see things the same way he does because I'm not an immigrant, and there's nobody within half dozen generations on either side of me who was one, so I can't say I get what he's saying, at any deep personal level, but intellectually, there is a certain logic to it.
- Rude just acts and sounds like a mid-20th century bigot. Her posts have NOTHING to do about immigration enforcement and reform and only about race. Even those that talk about the AZ law and illegal aliens have a clear undertone of racism and racial supremacy in them. My personal suspicion is that she's really a hardcore immigrant activist (probably a pro-Aztlan irredentist/separatist!) trying to get us excited. I call her out as a fraud. Nobody holds opinions like that anymore, really. She is the personification of a left wing caricature of a white bigot.
I just find it sad. I honestly dont understand how people, with everything going on right now, find it necessary to focus all their animosity on immigrants. Weve got bankers and hedge funds blowing our kids future away in an electronic coke-binge casino, kids burning alive in Iraq and Afghanistan for god knows what, Oil companies lathering up half the southern coast in crude oil, I mean shit is fucked up. But no. Thats not the problem. The real problem is all those mexicans. Dont put the national guard cleaning oil off the gulf coast, lets instead spend a billion dollars to have them wander around out in the desert arresting maids and daylaborers. If you just think the US should seal up and ignore the world, fine, whatever, we can have a discussion about whether thats crazy or not. But if you self-declare that you "Hate" immigrants? If you find it necessary to construct your entire online persona around Ramos and Compean? It isnt just absurd. Its suspicious. Im more honest than most. I dont buy all this disingenuous bullshit about "its about the money". Their numbers dont add up and they know it. If you dont think firing teachers for having accents is xenophobic, if you really think everything going on in Arizona is some big misunderstood coincidence, then youre fucking braindead. I dont think Frac is braindead. I think he knows exactly what this is, and either wont admit it to us, or wont admit it to himself. I dont know which is worse.
I just fucking hate this shell game. I hate seeing otherwise completely reasonable rational people get sucked into this dimwitted, ignorant con passing itself on as conservatism. Worried about a sustainable growing economy? Worried about waste and national debt? Great! Me too. We can all have very reasonable conversations about that. Instead though, were stuck on totally fucking vacuous non-problems like immigrants and gays because morons followed the bright light of conservatism into the fucking bug-zapper. Weve got this craven gang of fat, drugged-out, corrupt assholes like Rush Limbaugh and JD Hayworth telling us, oh no, the debt isnt because Goldman Sachs shorted your fucking pension fund, it isnt because were handing 20% of our GDP over to parasitic middlemen in the insurance industry, it isnt because Joe Lieberman spent 50 billion on a laser-plane or because Bush dumped a trillion dollars into the Iraqi desert for no reason. Its all those damned brown people. Its "welfare queens". Its "Anchor babies". Thats the problem. Pay no attention to those guys moving bags of money behind us, just focus all your hatred on shit that makes no sense or difference whatsoever. It genuinely boggles me that people can be so stupid.
oe, I really appreciate that you make the effort to repeat throughout the many political discussions here on archinect these sane and simple things, because you seem to genuinely want to educate others, not just to challenge.
because, otherwise, "Studies of group psychology show that when people with similar views talk to one another, they end up at even more extreme positions. The very ability to choose - neighborhoods, cable TV stations, websites, churches - increases the risk that we will hear only those with whom we already agree."
OE,
good job explaining and elaborating what I mentioned, hopefully these bigot architects see the light.
I'm glad I'm New Mexican.
My state accepted that you couldn't stop it. Now as a sanctuary state and a state that targets abusers of immigrants, it has substantially lower percentage of illegal immigrants than Arizona and Texas do.
And while you'll see impressive photos of some impressive border fences, the majority of New Mexico's border fence is this:
Which, at a cost of like $0.08 a foot... That's like $500 a mile versus $8 million a mile? The cost savings along could employ 319 people at $25,000 a year. Stretch that over 2000 miles, that's 638,000 jobs.
Not to mention, border fences do nothing as the number of extensive (and long) tunnels that run under the border between El Paso and Juarez.
If anyone wants to cross this by foot...
Well. I don't think you could pay me too.
good post oe.
Here's my theory. I think it's because of the old straw man game. If you're an unemployable, semi-literate teabagger and you're sitting shirtless and toothless in front of your TV massaging your beer belly, contemplating the death of all of your dreams, both personally and for the country, you need a diversion.. someone to blame.
Now who? You hate all foreigners of course, and you consider any brown person a foreigner - even those whose ancestors 12 generations back had the misfortune of being sold into Mississippi for a few jugs of rum, while your own ancestors were still getting whipped in Sicily for failing to fall on their knees fast enough in front of their local nobleman. But you know American Blacks will fight back and expose you for the coward you are if you attack them publicly, you know that East or South Asians hold your mortgage and own the factory you aspire to one day make minimum wage in, and you've already burned out/chased out/scared away any Arabs or Persians in your neighborhood... so you just find it easier to attack Latinos.
I forgot to say, congrats on your citizenship Paradox. Im breathing flame right now because I dont think the thing in arizona is fair or right, and I dont think people are acknowledging just how bad it is, but that has nothing to do with your achievements.
I do respect you guys and your right to your own opinion. I just wish people could look out at the end result of some of this stuff and really weigh honestly whether the cure might be worse than the illness.
the end result will be an entire country of working-class mexicans, middle-eastern ans somalian Cab drivers, Polish construction workers, and chinese textile workers. It seems the Indian bankers and doctors are the only ones following the correct path.
Let's review the existing law again:
TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER II > Part VIII > § 1325
§ 1325. Improper entry by alien
(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who
(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or
(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties
Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.
"I just wish people could look out at the end result of some of this stuff and really weigh honestly whether the cure might be worse than the illness."
Don't worry oe.The cure won't be worse than the illness.As you can see Arizona is trying to do what the Federal government needs to but WON'T do.I see you're flaming every time the topic of race comes up and often flame unnecessarily because the topic actually has nothing to do with race i.e. the Tiger Woods discussion.
"Im breathing flame right now" Same here.I'm tired of overly politically correct people pushing the race card down to my throat every chance they get.People today are much more tolerant to other cultures and much less racist compared to the people in the past.Nobody is going after some races with torches and torture them. All the races have equal rights in this country and they have the right to do many things.(only if they are citizens or lawful permanent citizens or have visas)
The United States can only support a certain number of immigrants a year. Even the US system has limits... so they need to wait their turn, just like all of the legal immigrants that come to this country each year.
apres-toi le deluge
wow paradox, you talk shit about the Native Americans while laughing out loud, and then get upset when people call you out on the fact that your Hispanic?
Paradox said:
"Also if you run into one, ask a native American how the lack of laws and regulations worked out for them. lol"
"People today are much more tolerant to other cultures and much less racist compared to the people in the past.Nobody is going after some races with torches and torture them. All the races have equal rights in this country and they have the right to do many things.(only if they are citizens or lawful permanent citizens or have visas"
if you think that Hispanics in this country are accepted as equals whether citizens or not you are misguided and stupid.
You just became a citizen, My family has been in the USA for over a hundred years, we have integrated well, we even know about a relative that fought in the Alamo against Mexico! relatives have fought and died for this country, but when bigots or Malinche Uncle Toms like you show up and do a double talk about hating illegals with an undertone against all Hispanics, specifically Mexicans guess what? white bigots do not distinguish between those of us that have been here as long as my family has, or people like you who just got here today, or the Mexicans crossing here illegally.
And then you blast the Native Americans. Thanks for adding to the hatred in this country, as if we don't have enough of that already.
now do us all a favor and go educate yourself on being nice to your fellow americans especially the Natives.
Damn, I hate to weigh in on these threads...it's not worth it...it just isnt...but:
Yea, paradox, keep quoting chapters and sub-chapters. I don't know about you, but when I'm looking down at my kids and they have an empty plate and a bloated stomach, I'm gonna go anywhere there's a possibility of making some money...fuck the laws. Hell, for most of those people the most dangerous part of the journey is crossing that fucking desert, knowing there's a very good chance they won't make it: you really think they give a fuck about some sub-chapters of law? I would do the same fucking thing, at the risk of jail time and deportation, to feed my family, and there's people all over the world that are willing to do it as we speak to get to many countries that are not the USA.
And another thing: let me get this straight, the people that came here and took this country from the natives living here, killing off most of them and putting the rest in dead-end reservations and burying them under 20 feet of bureaucracy, then kidnapped free peoples in Africa and brought them here as slaves, they were the legal immigrants, yea? and these poor fucking people crossing deserts at the risk of their lives to earn pitiful wages so their families back home won't starve, they're the devil incarnate, is that right? Bring me a bucket right now.....
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