This table should infuriate any right-thinking American! Asians are radically underrepresented in crime commission. 4,5% of the population but 0.8% of crimes committed is unacceptable. They urgently need some affirmative action... and this is very un-American of them. They need to assimilate, get with the program and seriously increase the muggings and mayhem.
Yes, that's the correct data - and supports exactly what I said.
Blacks are 8X more likely to commit murder, and Blacks 18 Years or younger are 9X more likely to commit murder.
Frightening.
Boycott politics in San Diego as the local tourism industry is fearful that Arizonians may respond to the city's boycott of Arizona with a reverse boycott.
Apparently, Los Angeles politicians have not read their own penal codes, because California's is almost identical in wording to Arizona SB 1070.
If a city wants to boycott the state in which they are located, do they have to form their own state, or do they join another one? This could be very complicated.
one of the many problems with california is that even though cali's law is essentially the same as az's sb 1070 it is not enforced here .. and that's one of the brilliant components of sb 1070 in that it bans 'sanctuary cities' like l.a. and san fran who refuse to deal with illegal aliens as they easily could and should.
i encourage everyone to not pull an eric holder or janet napalitanianiao and READ THE BILL! (this is not a racist law)
I don't know about LA, but I think San Diego is a different matter because the Mayor, Sanders, is an ex-cop.. and by consensus a very very good ex-cop (he was a former chief of police who institute community-based policing and under whom the crime rate plummeted to one of the lowest for big cities in the whole country, from one of the higest). He understands well what is practicable for policemen can be asked to do and feels strongly that what the AZ cops are being asked to do would harm the practice of policing in CA. I'm inclined to take him at his word.. as a conservative, he has no partisan political axe to grind in this anyway.
Those advocating expanded fencing already have a model they can look to: a fence the federal government built more than a decade ago along a 14-mile-stretch in San Diego, Calif., that borders Tijuana, Mexico.
Before the fence was built, all that separated that stretch of Mexico from California was a single strand of cable that demarcated the international border.
Back then, Border Patrol agent Jim Henry says he was overwhelmed by the stream of immigrants who crossed into the United States illegally just in that sector.
"It was an area that was out of control," Henry says. "There were over 100,000 aliens crossing through this area a year."
Today, Henry is assistant chief of the Border Patrol's San Diego sector. He says apprehensions here are down 95 percent, from 100,000 a year to 5,000 a year, largely because the single strand of cable marking the border was replaced by double — and in some places, triple — fencing.
Time frames a different FRaC, although the fence certainly did cut down on smuggling and drugs trafficking (I agree with you that it probably helped somewhat in the period before that). Sanders was police chief until 1999, and instituted community based policing,which made A LOT of different (where cops went from being a hostile force, LA- or Houston-style to an integral foce in neighborhoods) beginning int he mid-90s.
For me, it has a lot of credibility that Sanders is so adamently opposed to the AZ legislation.. and he does know policing. Also, remember that he is a Republican, with a pretty conservative base (even if he was elected as an independent).. so, for me, his voice in favor of the city's taking action against AZ is key for me.
just putting in my 2 cents,
Thinking about problems in terms of looking at the big picture. The way i look at any large architecture project as we all do.
I think it is fair to say that Immigration from Mexico is NOT THE BIGGEST or MOST EXPENSIVE PROBLEM THIS COUNTRY HAS.
We are all being distracted by this. In the meantime you have people that are really trying to attack us preparing to do so.
time frames are the same, Urbanist. the san diego border fence was built while sanders was the police chief and reduced illegal apprehensions 95%.
and sander's statement is:
“It’s not the job of our police department to solve the federal government’s immigration problem,” Sanders said.
“As a former police chief, I know what we ask of our officers every day with our limited city resources, and their first priority is to protect our citizens,” he said. “There is no reason to complicate and compromise their priorities.”
yes, the feds are supposed to 'solve' the immigration problem. but neither bushy or barry will secure the border so this needs the help of local law enforcement.
and if the 'first priority is to protect (the) citizens' then this is exactly what sb 1070 does (again, read the bill).
i have no problem disagreeing with a republican when they're wrong and agreeing with a democrat when they're right. you found one conservative who opposes the bill yet this bill has about 65% favorability in the u.s. so that sanders dude doesn't change my opinion.
What does this have to do with Democrats or Republicans?? 65% of the people approve this law and I'm sure not all them are right wing nuts! I know for a fact that I'm not one.
Look guys, Jeb Bush thinks this is unconstitutional bullshit, Marco Rubio thinks its unbecoming of american democracy. Its clear weve read the bill and understand it better than youre willing to. Its clear youre deliberately unwilling to acknowledge the difference between a lawful stop and a legal arrest, or the deliberate and inevitable implications of directing open ended "suspicion" at an ethnic group. Its clear you youre unwilling or unable to engage reality, that you dont want to talk about or admit to yourselves what is going on when teachers are being fired for having accents, when non-white culture is being purged from the curriculum, or when a state passes legislation drafted by self-described white sepratists. So we can listen to you drone on for five more pages while you wallow around in self-deception and scapegoating and stick your fingers in your ears when we present facts, or we can just wait another four months for the supreme court to shoot this shit down flat. Im frankly leaning toward the latter.
facts? like your continued misrepresentation of 'teachers being fired for having accents'?
you gotta go beyond the maddow-esque blog posts and get to the real story: Arizona Grades Teachers on Fluency State Pushes School Districts to Reassign Instructors With Heavy Accents or Other Shortcomings in Their English
By MIRIAM JORDAN
PHOENIX—As the academic year winds down, Creighton School Principal Rosemary Agneessens faces a wrenching decision: what to do with veteran teachers whom the state education department says don't speak English well enough.
The Arizona Department of Education recently began telling school districts that teachers whose spoken English it deems to be heavily accented or ungrammatical must be removed from classes for students still learning English.
State education officials say the move is intended to ensure that students with limited English have teachers who speak the language flawlessly. But some school principals and administrators say the department is imposing arbitrary fluency standards that could undermine students by thinning the ranks of experienced educators.
why do you want children who are trying to learn english to have teachers who aren't fluent in english? think of the children!
Look, all you law supporters are entitled to your opinion, but please recognize that people of good conscience can disagree with this one. I guarantee you, 65% of people in San Diego or LA don't support this law, and, for each of those cities, the mayor and all but one elected member of each of the two city councils don't either.. so much not, that they all voted for sanctions on AZ.. not to mention the San Diego City Schools board (which is majority controlled by white conservatives, for those of you so keen to raise the race card), which voted unamimously to sever all economic and other ties with AZ. I won't even mention Austin and Denver... and, although they fell short of economic sanctions, even the city council of Dallas. That's Dallas, TX.
Yea Frac. I know. The same wording was in the article I posted a page ago which you ignored. Lets play the game where we read english and actually make an attempt to understand it.
The Arizona Department of Education recently began telling school districts that teachers whose spoken English it deems to be heavily accentedor ungrammatical must be removed from classes for students still learning English.
As in, even if teachers have perfect grammar, they may still be removed from any class for any child who hasnt passed every english class in the public curriculum, simply for speaking in an accent. Besides being beyond obviously, bash-you-in-the-head racist, as a general policy for determining the actual quality of educators its fucking idiotic.
I find it impossible to believe that isnt obvious to you.
"The Arizona Department of Education recently began telling school districts that teachers whose spoken English it deems to be heavily accented or ungrammatical must be removed from classes for students still learning English."
Some people do try to drag us back to the middle ages but the Arizona immigration law is still very different than these kind of things because if you read the law you don't see ANYTHING regarding races except when you scroll down and when you scroll down you see statements like this:
"The attorney general or county attorney shall not investigate complaints that are based solely on race, color or national origin."
The other thing to ponder is why did only Hispanic people protest the law? Honestly I haven't seen any Irish or Italian people who protested the law.Hmm..
Arizona Corporation Commissioner Gary Pierce has written a letter to Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa threatening to cut power to Los Angeles if the city doesn’t reconsider its boycott of travel to the state and official contracts with businesses in Arizona.
Arizona coal and hydroelectric plants provide much of LA’s power.
read the 4th paragraph in his letter where he says if you (tony villar and the l.a. city council) really want to boycott arizona he will help '... renegotiate your power agreements so los angeles no longer receives any power from arizona-based generation.'
pierce is simply working with the city of l.a. to facilitate their boycott of arizona.
oe, for kids learning english they should have fluent english speakers who speak clearly. you stated several times already that teachers with accents were getting fired left and right and that simply wasn't what was reported IN PLAIN ENGLISH.
as i said, it's for the kids!
here's the litmus test: selma hayek has an accent and she speaks english fluently. she does not have a heavy accent, therefore if she were a teacher she would be allowed to teach english-learning kids english.
arnold schwarzenegger, on the other hand, has a thick, heavy accent. if he were a teacher most likely he would be relocated to teach a class other than kids who are just learning english.
Frac, I dont mean to hammer on you man, Im getting crass and worked up and its not particularly diplomatic of me. It just drives me nuts to see people treating eachother this way. I think we all agree that the status quo is completely inhumane, for immigrants most especially. But whatever people's intentions are, this stuff is just not helping. About the only thing we could do right now to make this worse is start making symbolic gestures in an attempt to harass and antagonize and make an entire culture feel that they are unwelcome, and in practical terms, thats all these laws are going to accomplish. I dont think its a stretch at all to say ethnic antagonism, even of the relatively mild, diffuse sort, is enormously more corrosive to society than the problem youre trying to solve. I just would think if people are genuine about fixing this they would start by treating eachother with respect.
Vanessa Bryant after game 1 of the lakers/suns game
you know, at first i looked at her and thought 'no way she's illegal' but then i started thinking and kept looking at her and to be honest i just wouldn't take a chance. she may very well be illegal and i'm basing that solely on how she looks. no sign of wrinkles, jet black hair, she sure looks pretty young to me. if i didn't know who she was i would be worried about that 17 to 18 year old borderline area, and as a guy you just don't want to take a chance (just ask lawrence taylor). so she may not be legal. if you don't know for sure, don't risk it with a woman (girl?) who could turn out to only be 17 years old.
I think one has to take history into account. I remember practices in San Diego in the late 80s and early 90s (from before Sanders' tenure as police chief) when all white SDPD officers would walk onto public buses about to pull away from the curve, pull "brown" people off (mostly younger women, given the nature of the manufacturing workforce on both sides of the border), line them up on the pavement outside ilke a scene out of a bad WW2 Nazi film, and interview them in sequence, asking for their papers, brutalizing, shoving and insulting at their whimsy. I actually witnessed this sort of thing - twice - as a teenager and bus rider. In one case, I saw a pair of uniformed border patrol agenta would just sit in their SUV, observing the "locals" do their dirty work. In neither case, was there a single arrest (all of the women checked out, apparently). but it was still the most humiliating thing I've ever personally witnessed in this country. The odd thing is, I'd bet money that all of those women are Tijuanense factory workers, and virtually every person in that city, with legal residency (and therefore a job), and virtually all Tijuanense have legal status in the US (300,000 people legal commute across that urban border each day, for work, in mostly blue collar jobs).
Sanders ended those practices during his tenure as police chief.. and now the SDPD do not cooperate with the CBP, except in the legally required manner.
my mom and 2 brothers and myself were very young going to visit Mexico for the first time, traveling on a greyhound bus, when suddenly somewhere in Texas the bus was stopped. It was full of old gray haired people we must have been the youngest family there. The bus driver opened the door, and then like a scene right out of an old western movie, What looked to me like a cowboy wearing a gun belt, Walkes up int to bus and in a loud obnoxious accent screams "OK WETBACKS GET OUT".
Of course he asked everyone for papers, and he didn't find any wetbacks whatever that was because I didn't know what he meant by it.
hehe... that was at least potentially more entertaining than watching four overweight beat cops brutalize a bunch of factory girls. I have another weird story from about 8 years ago. I was doing a site visit to a data center site near the International POE in Imperial County. I was snapping pics with my high power camera, taking some field measurements and the like, when three black explorers with tinted windows and TX plates pulled up and these guys, dressed all in black with black baseball caps and shotguns came out and told me to get on my knees. I had no idea who they were so I shouted "architect! survey!" and got on my knees with my hands up as instructed.
all of a sudden, a dozen armed CBP guys and girls pulled up in jeeps, jumped out, also with guns drawn... and pointed at the Texans. And instructed the Texans to stand down. Turned out they were minutemen militia types who had been attacking people in the area for days... making life difficult for the CBP, who were following them around... thank god.
I guess it all comes down to what kind of country y'all want to live in. If you want to live in a police state where cops harass people based purely on the color of their skin, where self appointed out-of-state militiamen carry out a reign of terror against innocent bystanders, where harmless Christian missionaries who dare to provide medical assistance to dying people in the desert are brought in chains into Federal court for prosecution under alien smuggling laws (as happened to those two oberlin college kids in AZ about 5 yrs ago), then go right ahead and pass this type of law... And when it doesn't work, which it probably won't, pass even more draconian laws. Maybe order kids to turn in their parents, or put illegals into camps, or just shoot people from atop the ever-higher border wall. Do whatever you feel you have to do assuage your own insecurities over your racial identity.. or whatever it is you're really trying to show off.
expect the rest of us Americans to stand still and do nothing.
PASCAGOULA, Miss -- An illegal immigrant sought for nearly a month and a half was wearing a shirt emblazoned with the phrase "I'm hiding from the cops" when he was arrested Wednesday on child molestation charges, and tried to wear the shirt inside out Thursday when he went before a Jackson County judge.
Investigators had been searching for Castillo since April 3, when a 10-year-old girl told investigators he molested her in a vehicle in Ocean Springs, Byrd said.
no, it would make no difference. both the u.s. citizen child molester and illegal alien child molester should be thrown in jail (for the rest of their lives in my draconian opinion).
here is a difference though. if you read the above story, you'll get this tidbit of information:
Castillo told County Judge Larry Wilson that he was unemployed and had a previous felony shoplifting conviction.
"I served 1 year and 1 day," Castillo said. "It was from Harrison County."
this guy was already arrested and convicted of a crime therefore he should have been turned over to ICE and deported after serving his 1 year and 1 day. why was he still in the country so he could allegedly molest this little girl? her life is now seriously messed up and it's because of our refusal to enforce our immigration laws.
it makes a difference for me too.
but, the case is more about a child molester and less about a immigration law legistlation.
here is the problem i have with this kind of nazi propaganda:
there are much more positive stories about illegal aliens becoming a contributing addition to this country. illegal residency is not unique to united states. it is a global fact that must be dealt in 21st century. but not with scare tactics and with lynch mentality. they are archaic and eventually will be marginalized and deemed useless if not blody.
by demonizing the illegal aliens, you are also creating social unrest with millions of illegal and legal aliens targeted for their profiles.
if there is going to be a legistlation about immigration and there is, i don't want it to be based on this kind of profiling and mass suspicion leading to increased hate crimes from all sides.
do you see the real difference of the way we are looking at it, now?
btw, with the record prison populations and clogged criminal justice system in u.s, politicians and media find hundreds of ripe to exploit for political gain stories en masse.
why do you think millions of illegal aliens are (were) finding employment here? they are here because we exploit them and make money on them. not that majority of them living posh lives here. this is a new and softer form of slavery very few are willing to talk about. do you realize how difficult it is to go upward now days? you seem to be from socal. why do you think they protect illegal day laborers in malibu?
it would be interesting to see if and how far arizona or any other state will push these laws when the economy recovers and they need a bigger and half price labor force.
so, it seems like a seasonal solution rather than take a good look at immigration, labor laws, employment, wage distribution, public health, education etc, and etc..
so take your child molesting, i.c.e busting sick fuck and think about these differences of solving the problem. you are supposed to be an architect not a proof reader in harrison county.
hey, I thought like an architect. I presented my renewable-energy-powered LEED electric border fence on this thread. And am now backing right out of this thread.
I'm contemplating moving to Denmark. But I only have 65 points out of the 100 points needed for a greencard. :,(
"paradoxx, what's your ethnic background/national identity?"
??What does it matter?? Are you incapable of defending the idea of letting illegals work over here so you will try to justify your opinion based on personal information about me?
No. Only that in the historical sense of things that only about at the lowest 7% and at the highest 15% of this country would be considered actually "white."
The construct of whiteness has little to do about the actual whiteness of one's skin and more about the whiteness of one's national origin.
Even within national origin there exists a dichotomy of "whiteness." Specifically, within English national origin exists two distinct groups of individuals with differing levels of whiteness. An easy separation of people from English heritage is found within the surnames of many english people.
English people whose surname translates into a trade, craft or activity are generally consider "commoners." Where as people whose surnames reference a place, property or estate are generally noblemen or "white" individuals.
While this is a practice that's far older than a millenia, the concept was translated into something particularly ugly in the 19th and 20th century. In terms of America, non-white Europeans often had just about as many rights as people of non-European heritage.
Sometime during the Recounstruction era, non-white Europeans flocked to this concept of whiteness vs. non-whiteness. That is... they assumed whiteness and chastise others for not being as white as them. By creating an 'artificial' underclass, they could aspire to the whiteness that was a standard across the world.
They did this through violence, brutal behavior and self-segregation.
However, they were afforded these activities by the "whites" themselves. Without "white" people changing their view of "whiteness," many "non-white" Europeans would still be discriminated against.
In short, a majority of racism in this country is perpetrated by individuals who would not even be considered "white" in a historical standpoint.
That is to say... without the changing of attitudes and behaviors... the institution of racism would not afford the many "non-whites" of this country to be actual racists.
So. as an "original" "white" person of this country, I'd prefer you not try to chastise and criticize social changes that have taken two to three centuries to achieve.
Otherwise, white pasty ass crackers like me would be dancing around spitting in the face of Irish people and shitting on Italians while charging as many taxes as I possible could.
OUR GIGANTIC NOBLE ESTATES REQUIRE FRESH RED CORAL FOR OUR MILE LONG DRIVEWAYS.
CRUSHED PREFERABLY.
I LIKE TO TOUCH MYSELF WHILE DRINKING EXCEPTIONALLY HOT TEA. WITHOUT THE SOFTNESS OF FRESH DREDGED CORAL, I MIGHT SPILL SAID HOT TEA ON MY LITTLE SIRE.
"So. as an "original" "white" person of this country, I'd prefer you not try to chastise and criticize social changes that have taken two to three centuries to achieve".
As a lawful permanent resident and almost a citizen of this country I have the RIGHT to criticize and take action to change anything.It is called participating in democracy.You "original" person denying that right is discriminatory therefore AGAINST THE LAW and I as a "non-original" person of this country could easily sue your original white ass and possibly throw it to jail because of that.I have my speech,expression rights so sit the eff down shut up but I guess you can't expect normal behavior from a person who touches himself while drinking tea.
By the way get off the crack because that's illegal too..Doing so many illegal things such as discriminating against people and smoking crack no wonder you support illegals too.
P.S. I still don't know why you're talking about "color"...Is it me or do you have a comprehension problem because I said nothing about the color of people,I was talking about the LAW! Idiot.
My point was that "free men" in this country (historically) only applies to a very slim portion of the actual population. And that slim portion does not include about 80% of Europe.
So, if we want to talk about racism... well racism in this country typically stems from non-white groups targeting other non-white groups to prove which group is actually the whitest.
But "white" no longer really exists... so this middle-class, American dream bullshit DOES NOT ACTUALLY EXIST. That was a concept formed by former white people to get as much money as possible.
"AZ Immigration Law"/SB 1070 - Your Thoughts?
Thanks MAtRobert.
This table should infuriate any right-thinking American! Asians are radically underrepresented in crime commission. 4,5% of the population but 0.8% of crimes committed is unacceptable. They urgently need some affirmative action... and this is very un-American of them. They need to assimilate, get with the program and seriously increase the muggings and mayhem.
Yes, that's the correct data - and supports exactly what I said.
Blacks are 8X more likely to commit murder, and Blacks 18 Years or younger are 9X more likely to commit murder.
Frightening.
How did this conversation stray?
Despite what may be true or not, It is NOT okay to have bills in legislation that target specific races.
And that's what SB1070 will do.
As we learned in Brown vs Board of Education 1954 "Separate but Equal" does not hold water and the Plessy vs Ferguson ruling was overturned.
Basically this involves segregation.
The same principles apply in Arizona. This law is not equal and not fair to all and therefore it is unconstitutional.
...but is IS fair to al Illegal Immigrants, AND consitutional.
Say anything.
Boycott politics in San Diego as the local tourism industry is fearful that Arizonians may respond to the city's boycott of Arizona with a reverse boycott.
http://www.sandiego.com/news/san-diego-tourism-seeing-a-reverse-boycott
I do applaud California cities for taking a stand though. LA and San Diego have both taken official action against AZ.
Apparently, Los Angeles politicians have not read their own penal codes, because California's is almost identical in wording to Arizona SB 1070.
If a city wants to boycott the state in which they are located, do they have to form their own state, or do they join another one? This could be very complicated.
Sorry - here's the lonk:
www.washingtontimes.com/weblogs/watercooler/2010/may/15/audio-interview-la-city-councilman-attacks-ariz-la/
thanks for the lonk, EKE!
one of the many problems with california is that even though cali's law is essentially the same as az's sb 1070 it is not enforced here .. and that's one of the brilliant components of sb 1070 in that it bans 'sanctuary cities' like l.a. and san fran who refuse to deal with illegal aliens as they easily could and should.
i encourage everyone to not pull an eric holder or janet napalitanianiao and READ THE BILL! (this is not a racist law)
es aquí: AZ SB 1070
(note: sb 1070 bans sanctuary cities within arizona, it doesn't ban l.a. and san fran's sanctuary policies)
I don't know about LA, but I think San Diego is a different matter because the Mayor, Sanders, is an ex-cop.. and by consensus a very very good ex-cop (he was a former chief of police who institute community-based policing and under whom the crime rate plummeted to one of the lowest for big cities in the whole country, from one of the higest). He understands well what is practicable for policemen can be asked to do and feels strongly that what the AZ cops are being asked to do would harm the practice of policing in CA. I'm inclined to take him at his word.. as a conservative, he has no partisan political axe to grind in this anyway.
sure, and a big part of san diego's plummeting crime rate was the border fence that was built in the mid 90's -> San Diego Fence Provides Lessons in Border Control (don't worry, it's an npr story)
Those advocating expanded fencing already have a model they can look to: a fence the federal government built more than a decade ago along a 14-mile-stretch in San Diego, Calif., that borders Tijuana, Mexico.
Before the fence was built, all that separated that stretch of Mexico from California was a single strand of cable that demarcated the international border.
Back then, Border Patrol agent Jim Henry says he was overwhelmed by the stream of immigrants who crossed into the United States illegally just in that sector.
"It was an area that was out of control," Henry says. "There were over 100,000 aliens crossing through this area a year."
Today, Henry is assistant chief of the Border Patrol's San Diego sector. He says apprehensions here are down 95 percent, from 100,000 a year to 5,000 a year, largely because the single strand of cable marking the border was replaced by double — and in some places, triple — fencing.
Time frames a different FRaC, although the fence certainly did cut down on smuggling and drugs trafficking (I agree with you that it probably helped somewhat in the period before that). Sanders was police chief until 1999, and instituted community based policing,which made A LOT of different (where cops went from being a hostile force, LA- or Houston-style to an integral foce in neighborhoods) beginning int he mid-90s.
For me, it has a lot of credibility that Sanders is so adamently opposed to the AZ legislation.. and he does know policing. Also, remember that he is a Republican, with a pretty conservative base (even if he was elected as an independent).. so, for me, his voice in favor of the city's taking action against AZ is key for me.
just putting in my 2 cents,
Thinking about problems in terms of looking at the big picture. The way i look at any large architecture project as we all do.
I think it is fair to say that Immigration from Mexico is NOT THE BIGGEST or MOST EXPENSIVE PROBLEM THIS COUNTRY HAS.
We are all being distracted by this. In the meantime you have people that are really trying to attack us preparing to do so.
time frames are the same, Urbanist. the san diego border fence was built while sanders was the police chief and reduced illegal apprehensions 95%.
and sander's statement is:
“It’s not the job of our police department to solve the federal government’s immigration problem,” Sanders said.
“As a former police chief, I know what we ask of our officers every day with our limited city resources, and their first priority is to protect our citizens,” he said. “There is no reason to complicate and compromise their priorities.”
yes, the feds are supposed to 'solve' the immigration problem. but neither bushy or barry will secure the border so this needs the help of local law enforcement.
and if the 'first priority is to protect (the) citizens' then this is exactly what sb 1070 does (again, read the bill).
i have no problem disagreeing with a republican when they're wrong and agreeing with a democrat when they're right. you found one conservative who opposes the bill yet this bill has about 65% favorability in the u.s. so that sanders dude doesn't change my opinion.
What does this have to do with Democrats or Republicans?? 65% of the people approve this law and I'm sure not all them are right wing nuts! I know for a fact that I'm not one.
Look guys, Jeb Bush thinks this is unconstitutional bullshit, Marco Rubio thinks its unbecoming of american democracy. Its clear weve read the bill and understand it better than youre willing to. Its clear youre deliberately unwilling to acknowledge the difference between a lawful stop and a legal arrest, or the deliberate and inevitable implications of directing open ended "suspicion" at an ethnic group. Its clear you youre unwilling or unable to engage reality, that you dont want to talk about or admit to yourselves what is going on when teachers are being fired for having accents, when non-white culture is being purged from the curriculum, or when a state passes legislation drafted by self-described white sepratists. So we can listen to you drone on for five more pages while you wallow around in self-deception and scapegoating and stick your fingers in your ears when we present facts, or we can just wait another four months for the supreme court to shoot this shit down flat. Im frankly leaning toward the latter.
facts? like your continued misrepresentation of 'teachers being fired for having accents'?
you gotta go beyond the maddow-esque blog posts and get to the real story: Arizona Grades Teachers on Fluency
State Pushes School Districts to Reassign Instructors With Heavy Accents or Other Shortcomings in Their English
By MIRIAM JORDAN
PHOENIX—As the academic year winds down, Creighton School Principal Rosemary Agneessens faces a wrenching decision: what to do with veteran teachers whom the state education department says don't speak English well enough.
The Arizona Department of Education recently began telling school districts that teachers whose spoken English it deems to be heavily accented or ungrammatical must be removed from classes for students still learning English.
State education officials say the move is intended to ensure that students with limited English have teachers who speak the language flawlessly. But some school principals and administrators say the department is imposing arbitrary fluency standards that could undermine students by thinning the ranks of experienced educators.
why do you want children who are trying to learn english to have teachers who aren't fluent in english? think of the children!
Look, all you law supporters are entitled to your opinion, but please recognize that people of good conscience can disagree with this one. I guarantee you, 65% of people in San Diego or LA don't support this law, and, for each of those cities, the mayor and all but one elected member of each of the two city councils don't either.. so much not, that they all voted for sanctions on AZ.. not to mention the San Diego City Schools board (which is majority controlled by white conservatives, for those of you so keen to raise the race card), which voted unamimously to sever all economic and other ties with AZ. I won't even mention Austin and Denver... and, although they fell short of economic sanctions, even the city council of Dallas. That's Dallas, TX.
Yea Frac. I know. The same wording was in the article I posted a page ago which you ignored. Lets play the game where we read english and actually make an attempt to understand it.
The Arizona Department of Education recently began telling school districts that teachers whose spoken English it deems to be heavily accented or ungrammatical must be removed from classes for students still learning English.
As in, even if teachers have perfect grammar, they may still be removed from any class for any child who hasnt passed every english class in the public curriculum, simply for speaking in an accent. Besides being beyond obviously, bash-you-in-the-head racist, as a general policy for determining the actual quality of educators its fucking idiotic.
I find it impossible to believe that isnt obvious to you.
"The Arizona Department of Education recently began telling school districts that teachers whose spoken English it deems to be heavily accented or ungrammatical must be removed from classes for students still learning English."
Although it is not racist,it IS discriminatory and totally disgusting so is the propose of the ban of abortion by the South Dakota governor.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/03/06/sd.abortion/index.html
Some people do try to drag us back to the middle ages but the Arizona immigration law is still very different than these kind of things because if you read the law you don't see ANYTHING regarding races except when you scroll down and when you scroll down you see statements like this:
"The attorney general or county attorney shall not investigate complaints that are based solely on race, color or national origin."
The other thing to ponder is why did only Hispanic people protest the law? Honestly I haven't seen any Irish or Italian people who protested the law.Hmm..
Arizona Corporation Commissioner Gary Pierce has written a letter to Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa threatening to cut power to Los Angeles if the city doesn’t reconsider its boycott of travel to the state and official contracts with businesses in Arizona.
Arizona coal and hydroelectric plants provide much of LA’s power.
The letter:
http://newmexicoindependent.com/54797/az-official-threatens-to-cut-power-to-la-because-of-boycott-over-anti-immigration-law
led signal light, your statement is misleading!
pierce didn't 'threaten to cut power to l.a.'.
read the 4th paragraph in his letter where he says if you (tony villar and the l.a. city council) really want to boycott arizona he will help '... renegotiate your power agreements so los angeles no longer receives any power from arizona-based generation.'
pierce is simply working with the city of l.a. to facilitate their boycott of arizona.
get yer facts right, man!
oe, for kids learning english they should have fluent english speakers who speak clearly. you stated several times already that teachers with accents were getting fired left and right and that simply wasn't what was reported IN PLAIN ENGLISH.
as i said, it's for the kids!
here's the litmus test: selma hayek has an accent and she speaks english fluently. she does not have a heavy accent, therefore if she were a teacher she would be allowed to teach english-learning kids english.
arnold schwarzenegger, on the other hand, has a thick, heavy accent. if he were a teacher most likely he would be relocated to teach a class other than kids who are just learning english.
see, it's not that hard!
frac what a waste you are! read the post again. there is no addition in it by me. and understand what it says! you're fired!!!
Frac, I dont mean to hammer on you man, Im getting crass and worked up and its not particularly diplomatic of me. It just drives me nuts to see people treating eachother this way. I think we all agree that the status quo is completely inhumane, for immigrants most especially. But whatever people's intentions are, this stuff is just not helping. About the only thing we could do right now to make this worse is start making symbolic gestures in an attempt to harass and antagonize and make an entire culture feel that they are unwelcome, and in practical terms, thats all these laws are going to accomplish. I dont think its a stretch at all to say ethnic antagonism, even of the relatively mild, diffuse sort, is enormously more corrosive to society than the problem youre trying to solve. I just would think if people are genuine about fixing this they would start by treating eachother with respect.
Vanessa Bryant after game 1 of the lakers/suns game
you know, at first i looked at her and thought 'no way she's illegal' but then i started thinking and kept looking at her and to be honest i just wouldn't take a chance. she may very well be illegal and i'm basing that solely on how she looks. no sign of wrinkles, jet black hair, she sure looks pretty young to me. if i didn't know who she was i would be worried about that 17 to 18 year old borderline area, and as a guy you just don't want to take a chance (just ask lawrence taylor). so she may not be legal. if you don't know for sure, don't risk it with a woman (girl?) who could turn out to only be 17 years old.
I think one has to take history into account. I remember practices in San Diego in the late 80s and early 90s (from before Sanders' tenure as police chief) when all white SDPD officers would walk onto public buses about to pull away from the curve, pull "brown" people off (mostly younger women, given the nature of the manufacturing workforce on both sides of the border), line them up on the pavement outside ilke a scene out of a bad WW2 Nazi film, and interview them in sequence, asking for their papers, brutalizing, shoving and insulting at their whimsy. I actually witnessed this sort of thing - twice - as a teenager and bus rider. In one case, I saw a pair of uniformed border patrol agenta would just sit in their SUV, observing the "locals" do their dirty work. In neither case, was there a single arrest (all of the women checked out, apparently). but it was still the most humiliating thing I've ever personally witnessed in this country. The odd thing is, I'd bet money that all of those women are Tijuanense factory workers, and virtually every person in that city, with legal residency (and therefore a job), and virtually all Tijuanense have legal status in the US (300,000 people legal commute across that urban border each day, for work, in mostly blue collar jobs).
Sanders ended those practices during his tenure as police chief.. and now the SDPD do not cooperate with the CBP, except in the legally required manner.
Urbanist's post reminds me of an episode.
my mom and 2 brothers and myself were very young going to visit Mexico for the first time, traveling on a greyhound bus, when suddenly somewhere in Texas the bus was stopped. It was full of old gray haired people we must have been the youngest family there. The bus driver opened the door, and then like a scene right out of an old western movie, What looked to me like a cowboy wearing a gun belt, Walkes up int to bus and in a loud obnoxious accent screams "OK WETBACKS GET OUT".
Of course he asked everyone for papers, and he didn't find any wetbacks whatever that was because I didn't know what he meant by it.
hehe... that was at least potentially more entertaining than watching four overweight beat cops brutalize a bunch of factory girls. I have another weird story from about 8 years ago. I was doing a site visit to a data center site near the International POE in Imperial County. I was snapping pics with my high power camera, taking some field measurements and the like, when three black explorers with tinted windows and TX plates pulled up and these guys, dressed all in black with black baseball caps and shotguns came out and told me to get on my knees. I had no idea who they were so I shouted "architect! survey!" and got on my knees with my hands up as instructed.
all of a sudden, a dozen armed CBP guys and girls pulled up in jeeps, jumped out, also with guns drawn... and pointed at the Texans. And instructed the Texans to stand down. Turned out they were minutemen militia types who had been attacking people in the area for days... making life difficult for the CBP, who were following them around... thank god.
I guess it all comes down to what kind of country y'all want to live in. If you want to live in a police state where cops harass people based purely on the color of their skin, where self appointed out-of-state militiamen carry out a reign of terror against innocent bystanders, where harmless Christian missionaries who dare to provide medical assistance to dying people in the desert are brought in chains into Federal court for prosecution under alien smuggling laws (as happened to those two oberlin college kids in AZ about 5 yrs ago), then go right ahead and pass this type of law... And when it doesn't work, which it probably won't, pass even more draconian laws. Maybe order kids to turn in their parents, or put illegals into camps, or just shoot people from atop the ever-higher border wall. Do whatever you feel you have to do assuage your own insecurities over your racial identity.. or whatever it is you're really trying to show off.
expect the rest of us Americans to stand still and do nothing.
Facebook Page about Racism and Immigrants :P
By Cherie Ward
May 21, 2010, 5:14AM
PASCAGOULA, Miss -- An illegal immigrant sought for nearly a month and a half was wearing a shirt emblazoned with the phrase "I'm hiding from the cops" when he was arrested Wednesday on child molestation charges, and tried to wear the shirt inside out Thursday when he went before a Jackson County judge.
Investigators had been searching for Castillo since April 3, when a 10-year-old girl told investigators he molested her in a vehicle in Ocean Springs, Byrd said.
nice shirt, man !!
if he was a natural born citizen of this country child molester, would it make a difference for you (or anyone else)?
no, it would make no difference. both the u.s. citizen child molester and illegal alien child molester should be thrown in jail (for the rest of their lives in my draconian opinion).
here is a difference though. if you read the above story, you'll get this tidbit of information:
Castillo told County Judge Larry Wilson that he was unemployed and had a previous felony shoplifting conviction.
"I served 1 year and 1 day," Castillo said. "It was from Harrison County."
this guy was already arrested and convicted of a crime therefore he should have been turned over to ICE and deported after serving his 1 year and 1 day. why was he still in the country so he could allegedly molest this little girl? her life is now seriously messed up and it's because of our refusal to enforce our immigration laws.
it makes a difference for me too.
but, the case is more about a child molester and less about a immigration law legistlation.
here is the problem i have with this kind of nazi propaganda:
there are much more positive stories about illegal aliens becoming a contributing addition to this country. illegal residency is not unique to united states. it is a global fact that must be dealt in 21st century. but not with scare tactics and with lynch mentality. they are archaic and eventually will be marginalized and deemed useless if not blody.
by demonizing the illegal aliens, you are also creating social unrest with millions of illegal and legal aliens targeted for their profiles.
if there is going to be a legistlation about immigration and there is, i don't want it to be based on this kind of profiling and mass suspicion leading to increased hate crimes from all sides.
do you see the real difference of the way we are looking at it, now?
btw, with the record prison populations and clogged criminal justice system in u.s, politicians and media find hundreds of ripe to exploit for political gain stories en masse.
why do you think millions of illegal aliens are (were) finding employment here? they are here because we exploit them and make money on them. not that majority of them living posh lives here. this is a new and softer form of slavery very few are willing to talk about. do you realize how difficult it is to go upward now days? you seem to be from socal. why do you think they protect illegal day laborers in malibu?
it would be interesting to see if and how far arizona or any other state will push these laws when the economy recovers and they need a bigger and half price labor force.
so, it seems like a seasonal solution rather than take a good look at immigration, labor laws, employment, wage distribution, public health, education etc, and etc..
so take your child molesting, i.c.e busting sick fuck and think about these differences of solving the problem. you are supposed to be an architect not a proof reader in harrison county.
Someone just got reminded that he is supposed to think like an architect.
Haha, Good post... Orhan.
hey, I thought like an architect. I presented my renewable-energy-powered LEED electric border fence on this thread. And am now backing right out of this thread.
I'm contemplating moving to Denmark. But I only have 65 points out of the 100 points needed for a greencard. :,(
paradoxx, what's your ethnic background/national identity?
"paradoxx, what's your ethnic background/national identity?"
??What does it matter?? Are you incapable of defending the idea of letting illegals work over here so you will try to justify your opinion based on personal information about me?
No. Only that in the historical sense of things that only about at the lowest 7% and at the highest 15% of this country would be considered actually "white."
The construct of whiteness has little to do about the actual whiteness of one's skin and more about the whiteness of one's national origin.
Even within national origin there exists a dichotomy of "whiteness." Specifically, within English national origin exists two distinct groups of individuals with differing levels of whiteness. An easy separation of people from English heritage is found within the surnames of many english people.
English people whose surname translates into a trade, craft or activity are generally consider "commoners." Where as people whose surnames reference a place, property or estate are generally noblemen or "white" individuals.
While this is a practice that's far older than a millenia, the concept was translated into something particularly ugly in the 19th and 20th century. In terms of America, non-white Europeans often had just about as many rights as people of non-European heritage.
Sometime during the Recounstruction era, non-white Europeans flocked to this concept of whiteness vs. non-whiteness. That is... they assumed whiteness and chastise others for not being as white as them. By creating an 'artificial' underclass, they could aspire to the whiteness that was a standard across the world.
They did this through violence, brutal behavior and self-segregation.
However, they were afforded these activities by the "whites" themselves. Without "white" people changing their view of "whiteness," many "non-white" Europeans would still be discriminated against.
In short, a majority of racism in this country is perpetrated by individuals who would not even be considered "white" in a historical standpoint.
That is to say... without the changing of attitudes and behaviors... the institution of racism would not afford the many "non-whites" of this country to be actual racists.
So. as an "original" "white" person of this country, I'd prefer you not try to chastise and criticize social changes that have taken two to three centuries to achieve.
Otherwise, white pasty ass crackers like me would be dancing around spitting in the face of Irish people and shitting on Italians while charging as many taxes as I possible could.
OUR GIGANTIC NOBLE ESTATES REQUIRE FRESH RED CORAL FOR OUR MILE LONG DRIVEWAYS.
CRUSHED PREFERABLY.
I LIKE TO TOUCH MYSELF WHILE DRINKING EXCEPTIONALLY HOT TEA. WITHOUT THE SOFTNESS OF FRESH DREDGED CORAL, I MIGHT SPILL SAID HOT TEA ON MY LITTLE SIRE.
"So. as an "original" "white" person of this country, I'd prefer you not try to chastise and criticize social changes that have taken two to three centuries to achieve".
As a lawful permanent resident and almost a citizen of this country I have the RIGHT to criticize and take action to change anything.It is called participating in democracy.You "original" person denying that right is discriminatory therefore AGAINST THE LAW and I as a "non-original" person of this country could easily sue your original white ass and possibly throw it to jail because of that.I have my speech,expression rights so sit the eff down shut up but I guess you can't expect normal behavior from a person who touches himself while drinking tea.
By the way get off the crack because that's illegal too..Doing so many illegal things such as discriminating against people and smoking crack no wonder you support illegals too.
P.S. I still don't know why you're talking about "color"...Is it me or do you have a comprehension problem because I said nothing about the color of people,I was talking about the LAW! Idiot.
"participating in democracy"
That's so CUTE!
My point was that "free men" in this country (historically) only applies to a very slim portion of the actual population. And that slim portion does not include about 80% of Europe.
So, if we want to talk about racism... well racism in this country typically stems from non-white groups targeting other non-white groups to prove which group is actually the whitest.
But "white" no longer really exists... so this middle-class, American dream bullshit DOES NOT ACTUALLY EXIST. That was a concept formed by former white people to get as much money as possible.
In either event, you got trapped! Sucks! Sorry!
WHITE PEOPLE WIN AGAIN.
que uploading porn from www.dirtylatinamaids.com
IF THIS DOESNT PROVED HOW FUCKED UP AMERICA IS, I DONT KNOW WHAT WILL.
IF I DONT RECEIVE HATE MAIL BY TOMORROW AT 4 P.M. (EASTERN STANDARD TIME), I WILL FLOOD THIS THREAD WITH WHITE-ON-ILLEGAL-MEXICAN-WOMEN PORN.
OH SHIT. I LINKED TO PORN.
PAUL IS GOING TO TURN ME INTO GROUND UP SPARKLY UNICORN MEAT.
Here the race card again..Apparently you never saw a person of Hispanic origin supporting the Arizona law. (Because I did! Sshhhhh)
ITS OKAY, I ONLY HAD TWO AND A HALF CANS OF JOOSE TONIGHT.
THAT MEANS I AM TOTALLY BLACK OUT DRUNK,
ALL CAPS PARTY.
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