This forum has adopted a pervasive attitude of pessimism, sadness and a lack of respect for the profession that it is centered upon.
I have been reading for five years and I have to say, it has never been this bad. As more firms lose work and more of the underemployed and unemployed turn to the internet for a community and shoulder to cry on, you can't open a thread without seeing someones belligerent idiocy put on display.
Recently, it has become clear that this website has become one of the main outlets to generate an impression of the industry as a whole. Architectural Record frequently quotes discussion that occurs on the board and we have had at least one self identified CEO (from one of the top 10 largest firms in the world) trolling about. While it is clear to most that the conversation here does not represent the industry as a whole, to some... (especially impressionable aspiring architects) it does.
It would be interesting to look back twenty years from now, maybe some of us will have become uber-successful in this world... stranger things have happened. Some discussions on this site bring up fabulous points and are full of rich, relevant and current discourse. As the perpetual database that it is, do you think that the historians will look back to this online community for clues to a movement characterized by... Archinect?
Well I for one think that it's far from a delusion of grandeur to imagine the importance that this period of social networking and online communication is, and will be, a defining turning point in the history of all disciplines of design (and everything else).
Maybe this period will end up being characterized by a deafening self-loathing brought on by a legion of undervalued artists.
There are so many crazy posts on here, the ones that are important (at least to me) seem to fall by the wayside.
I wish there was a way for me to flag conversations that I'm interested in following so I can ignore the negative chatter by sad folks and get on with contributing to a reality in which valuable information exchange can enlighten our industry mentality and workflow.
This should be a place where we can identify relevant industry issues, provide constructive opinion on subject and collectively change the way it all works. A lot of people read and value Archinect- that gives participants the power to impact our industry reality.
the pessimism & sadness are well-place considering that things are probably going to get worse & worse*.
i'd imagine in twenty years that we'll look back at 2009/2010 and think of those as the (relatively) good years: when many of us still thought we could have a future as architects.
*this guy seems like a bit of a nutcase to me, but his numbers do help to illustrate the absurd amount of debt right now.
Ive noticed the overwhelming drudgery of the posts the last year. Maybe it's a new group of posters or the club of inner ring posters thats formed or sadly the economic outlook. This site was more fun spirited when the jokers were around like Tumbleweeds and medeler and the platypus. Where did they all go? Remember there was a silent disapproval Robot? I liked that one best. Oh well life goes on, back to work.
I have [inadvertantly] done my fair share of thread killing recently.
But one thing I believe is that there is a genuine opportunity for architecture to seriously reinvent itself, and there is no better opportunity than right now. Who was it that said that you should never waste a good crisis?
Threads like NTAAB show there is still passion for great and interesting buildings and that it is possible to create them. It should be inspiration for those people who want to be able to identify and create the conditions where the creation of genuinely good buildings are the norm, not the exception.
I'm just surprised at how often on this message board when a student or other architect posts a question asking for help with a specific problem they are immediately attacked and insulted for the very idea of beckoning the brilliant minds of archinect with their trivial concerns.
Why is it considered so outrageous that someone should seek assistance on the 'nect? I will at times implore the author to provide additional information, but I don't at all see the need to chastise people for offending the 'nects silly sense of decorum.
These are the only threads in which real architectural thinking is possibly. ie. here is a problem, how do we solve it? These should be the most enlightening, enjoyable and productive, but instead these threads are ignored and discarded for the chance to have yet another discussion of graduate school admission policies.
architects tend to be cynical already
it can get out of hand easily on the internet
sometimes someone is new to the boards and honestly doesnt know something has been talked about a million times already
to jump down someone's throat and go nuts at them just because you think they should have searched all the past threads to see if anything related to their question is a bit ridiculous
everyone was new here at some point, and just because a question has already been asked by us or discussed by us, doesnt mean that it has for everyone
Personally- I got into architecture so I could have a positive impact on society, which I maintain is something that architecture can do.
I have a feeling that I'm not the only one out there that feels this way. I'll bet that people are just frustrated with the result of their efforts to generate interesting architectural discourse in their professional life and are slowly giving up on their dream while they settle into a life/job/place in the industry that isn't compatible with their initial interest in architecture.
I think that Archinect can be a place that supports and enables us to accomplish our architectural goals rather than one that reinforces frustration, disappointment, and cynicism as an accepted norm.
lorem ... thank you so much for starting this thread. I think this sort of dialogue is long overdue.
I once was a frequent reader and poster here on Archinect. But, conditions deteriorated so badly a year or so back that, for all practical purposes, I stopped posting with any meaningful frequency - I also dramatically reduced how often I can here to read the threads.
At a very personal level, I just reached a place where I didn't see the point of continued participation. There has emerged a huge lack of respect among posters and some seem to come here only to drop glib, sarcastic comments and then move on without making any sort of constructive contribution whatsoever. Others seem to come here just to pump up their post count and, remarkably, never really offer anything remotely interesting -- they just become irritating static.
I think Archinect once was -- and could be again -- a tremendous resource for the members of our profession. There are (or were) many decent, thoughtful and constructive participants. Many members with considerable experience in the profession have, in the past, been quite willing to share their experience with the younger members of this forum. And, the younger members of the forum help the more senior participants, like myself, stay connected with the thinking of other generations.
Personally, I don't know if the forum can be reconstructed -- but, I hope it can. I've enjoyed many educational hours here and feel a void in my professional discourse since conditions deteriorated so badly.
i also have noticed in the past those who seem to feel a need to post on every single thread, with the only intent i can think of to be as you said, pumping their post count
which then would give them more cred to bash anyone who is new and asks a question that has already been asked
why some would feel the need to post that they are tired of reading this type of thread is beyond me
like they HAD to read the thread?
it gets old and i imagine has driven a lot of people away from the site before they even spent any time here
what first brought me here and got me started was that i had some actual architectural questions, either for a project or for my own personal curiousity, and had very helpful answers given and discussions
I'm sure that I've contributed to this, but have two thoughts to share (not sure whether they'll turn out in support or denial yet, I'll think it out as I type):
First, I think it's perfectly natural for a community to have a certain vibe to it. Architect's has tended to be slightly snarky, but I'm not sure that that's divergent from the profession in general. Additionally, I believe that the trend towards negative posts right now is a direct result of current industry factors such as the slowdown in construction, layoffs, and the long-standing disconnect between academia and the profession. Are we supposed to hide those issues, or how we feel about them, for the sake of public image or to encourage more young people to enter the profession? I don't think it would really help anyone to do so. You point out that a "one self identified CEO" peruses the boards: I think that it can only help him to know that this is how the young people in his firm probably also feel, and what happens to people after he lays them off. So I guess this is a vote for keeping it real, because there's tons of fiction and marketing material out there already.
Second, I happen to personally have a big problem with people who post some of those specific queries you mention. When they ask for help finding precedents for something, or ask if something is possible, then that's fine and great and useful (for them and for others). But many of these queries seem to ask the hive-mind of archinect to do their homework, and that bothers me a lot. When I was a teaching assistant, there was a certain type of student would would become exasperated by critiques and eventually come to me after class basically saying "Just tell me exactly what to do and I'll do it." Design doesn't work that way, life doesn't work that way, and archinect shouldn't work that way either.
Part of the exasperation of responders to marginal threads [hopefully] comes from some collective reponsibility to 'encourage' people to think and work for themselves.
I for one try and comment on threads where I feel I have a relevant point. Pretty easy really, because being based in NZ, alot of the North American issues I have no idea of.
I'd be curious to find out how many members and visitors Archinect now gets...
I think it's important to consider that architecture is an intense profession at a time (today) of rapid and oftentimes disruptive change. Everything from the climate to the continued viability of energy and water resources to the world geopolitical balance of power to the structure and basic assumptions of the international economic order are all in flux. To be an architect or designer in today's world is at once incredibly exciting and frighteningly uncertain.
Forums like this one are needed, as a mirror onto the world in which we live and work, as a sounding board for ideas and concerns, and as a source of guidance for what is to come. Even the odd snippy comment (and I confess to being the source of some of them - AquillatheNun frankly brings out the worse in me) reflect the world in which we have to live and function.
I don't think a forum such as archinect can separate itself from our fears and hopes, and all of the myriad ways through which we each personally, respond to uncertainty.
rationalist, your second point reminds me of the Jim McAllister character in Election. I can't imagine how projecting your TA baggage onto complete strangers online is going to be constructive in any way for anyone involved. It certainly won't, as diabase hopes, encourage people to think for themselves.
oh goodness. Maybe I wasn't as clear as I thought it was: these people who ask what they should do their thesis on, or what a professor wants them to do for a certain assignment (how the heck are we supposed to know that anyway?!) are doing the same thing as those students were. Us giving them the answers, which it's difficult to impossible for us to know in the first place, doesn't help them learn.
but is it the questions or the hostile responses to those questions that contribute to a "pervasive attitude of pessimism, sadness and lack of respect" online?
I agree with loremipsum ... I love architecture and I want to find more places where I can discuss architecture with others, but I have not posted on this board anywhere near as much as I would if the immaturity and non-constructive negative attitudes of some posters were not so discouraging.
I would agree that the lack of respect is perhaps something to think about.. but the point I was trying to make earlier is, why do we object to expressions of pessimism and sadness? There is nothing intrinsic about architecture that demands we be smiling cheerleaders. We have to be able to design for an era of crises, depression and environmental devastation if that's what the world develops into.
I for one think that we are, as a country, going to continue to face dark times for many years to come. I don't buy the dreamily hopeful vision the president is trying to sell. I sincerely do believe that we face years of very high unemployment, that our generation will face massive downward mobility relative to our parents, that growing inequality combined with an irreconciliable political divide will be the dominant trends domestically, that China is going to clean our national clock economically and emerge in the long term as a rather sinister type of global hegemon, and I believe that we will face a world increasingly overwhelmed by the consequences of resource depletion and climate change.
And I believe that as American designers we have to come up with ideas and visions for urban transformation that'll be able to mitigate at least some of this dark future we face. That's OUR mission.
Does this pessimism - about the world, not about our profession - mean y'all are saying I don't belong on Archinect? Cause if that's what y'all are saying, then you're sort of arguing that this forum should be renamed the "Ostriche-head-in-sand Blog."
Urbanist - for me, the question of optimism vs. pessimism is not terribly relevant. What allows a forum like this to work effectively for a large group of members is a reasonably consistent level of thoughtful discourse, consistent mutual respect and a mutual desire to teach and learn. IMO, if those conditions are present, this forum can withstand wildly opposing views with impunity.
My 2 cents
I personally, don't encourage the posts where people are just asking for someone else to do their homework. But do try to help with precedent or threads like the detail thread, job site pic, thesis help (when not just a question but a dialog)...
And I don't feel that the tone has become that much worse since i started frequenting. Now I am not an old Archinect hand. But while people may be pessisimistic or unemployed I don't feel like everyone is angry or yelling. Their is genuine friendship, communication, assistance and good will in many posts.
when people arent able to do what they like to do, theyre going to get frivolous. in times of danger people will turn to the internet for its anonymity. Another problem also is that some people on here have appointed themselves as the saints of this site, and adopt a holier than thou attitude. kind of runs in the profession too. perhaps humanity as well. no need to lose hope though. there are still great posts here, just have to filter through the mariposas
On the point of mutual respect, I do have to wonder why Archinect reviewers of user-submitted images in the library are so harsh. I mean really, the top rated student project only gets a 3 out of 5? Among the hundreds upon hundreds of submissions?
"While it is clear to most that the conversation here does not represent the industry as a whole, to some... (especially impressionable aspiring architects) it does."
There's a point... There are alot of fresh graduates, architecture students and would-be architecture students coming to these forums to seek out information on what it is that our profession does really... What is said constructs a view of the industry as a whole, an impression at least... Although the same can be said of architecture schools and academia, and architectural publications... Probably more so than even a forum like this... There is a construction, as always, of history and narrative of what architecture is happening... It doesn't necessarily reflect what is really happening in the industry as a whole... I would actually think that at least in the forum, there is a certain degree of informality to it... Stream of consciousness and an ongoing banter or conversation and links to images, references to articles, etc. that maintains a certain amount of authenticity... At least on a forum, you are talking out loud with real people... It's unfortunate that in this recession, sometimes that banter turns to cyncism or pessimism... I think there used to be alot more *archinect mentorship* on here if that means anything... in the sense that: there were a number of great veterans of the profession on here who were very active, and would put us young 'uns in our place, say the right kinds of things to encourage and inform those of us new to the profession about what the profession was really about, but also inspire and generate meaningful discourse... Offer real critiques of academia and particular architectural works, etc. (as well as pointing out the merits of architectural education)... People who could speak from experience... I think alot of those veteran voices these days have gone away, not sure why... Maybe it's the economy... Those are probably the people dealing with managing through this economy... It's been a tough year for most of us... Layoffs, falling off projects and slowing of business, friends and colleagues missing, etc... I think alot of people are just burnt out... If I was just forced to lay off 5 good people from my office staff, I probably wouldn't be in the mood to chat on a forum either... On the other hand, those 5 laid off people might be venting on a forum... :P
"Recently, it has become clear that this website has become one of the main outlets to generate an impression of the industry as a whole. Architectural Record frequently quotes discussion that occurs on the board and we have had at least one self identified CEO (from one of the top 10 largest firms in the world) trolling about. While it is clear to most that the conversation here does not represent the industry as a whole, to some... (especially impressionable aspiring architects) it does.
It would be interesting to look back twenty years from now, maybe some of us will have become uber-successful in this world... stranger things have happened. Some discussions on this site bring up fabulous points and are full of rich, relevant and current discourse. As the perpetual database that it is, do you think that the historians will look back to this online community for clues to a movement characterized by... Archinect?
Well I for one think that it's far from a delusion of grandeur to imagine the importance that this period of social networking and online communication is, and will be, a defining turning point in the history of all disciplines of design (and everything else).
Maybe this period will end up being characterized by a deafening self-loathing brought on by a legion of undervalued artists."
Funny to think of a web forum and these random threads as a historical / anthropological artifact...
The nature of the blogisphere and web media is such that it's easy to forget that we are all being recorded as a document... It'd be interesting to go back 10 years and read what people were talking about on archinect then... We are creating historic artifacts as we speak... All these things are being transcribed!... The anonymity and free participation of basically any fool with a computer (or a smart phone) means basically anybody can be a participant of history... It's "public" and a historic document... In the same way that for example the diaries and letters are nowadays analyzed by historians... The reach of the web also makes it a political and culture shaping medium... These days elections are won on Youtube and in the blogisphere and social media networks... Networks of people are mobilized via twitter in response to crises like Haiti, to generate and transmit information, etc... Who knows - a site like archinect might just be the best gage now of the national mood of the profession generally (even if it is not quite an accurate representation of the industry... not representative of the true range of demographic, etc.)
Be careful what you write: the "unhappy hipsters" thread is going to be one hillarious excerpt in a volume of "the anthropology of the architecture profession" 20 years from now... :P
This forum has been around since... 1997? It's 13 years old... The young architects who were on here in the pimpin' architecture days are well into their careers by now, probably significant in our profession... 20 years from now what will our generation be doing...?
outbreak of white supremaracists
bitter dilletantes who value sounding witty and subversive over all else
(some also tend to be drugged, drunk and juvenile..others grow up that way)
rita novel's death
earthquakes
floods
wars
armageddon?
It is totally unacceptable to come in and start posting 144 characters or less diatribes just because you can in this forum and lessen the value of something that took years and many thoughtful posts by other members to build up.
I think it is pretty much insult to people who contributed a lot to this forum and made it arguably the most intelligent, fun, helpful, respected and referred architectural forum in the world.
Within my +,- 5000 posts I have done jokes, heated arguments, thoughtful advice, snarky and ironic posts, sharing my 30 plus years of experience in architecture, made beautiful friends and learned a lot from others here. It is surely very disappointing for people to sign up and start posting things more fit for thoughtless internet talk you see in some youtube comments.
I am not at all against posts being pessimistic, argumentative and even snarks, etc. as long as they are necessitated, imaginative, creative, useful to others and they contribute to thread which they are posted in.
And, even though I have been unfairly regarded as such and get a lot of complaints, I am not a forum police either. I don't think anybody is unless it becomes so violent, threatening and pornographic. There are minimal but very clear rules.
The screen names come and go but what you build up and say remain.
Although you don't pay in monetary terms, the membership and time at the lectern in this forum is not free.
And, your posts eventually show how much you have paid for your membership and how much your opinions and contributions worth.
I've been around for a while now. IMO - this forum really hasn't changed - it's still populated by a small minority of people who are in various stages of becoming mentally unhinged - probably due to this career path we've all taken (or taken a liking too).
I do think people are just grumpier than normal, though...
Oh my god toaster that link is freaking hilarious.
I've been avoiding posting here because I'm so completely one of the old timers that everyone thinks is also somehow in a position of power. I'm not. So the only thing I'm going to say is: this forum has always gone through cycles of being happy, helpful, and fun contrasted with cycles of grumpy, distracted, and screeching. We're just in one of those latter cycles now. But thoughtful queries tend to be responded to by people with experience and generosity.
I forgot to mention - and this is why my post count is so high (I'm dim-witted) - if you like discussion more tailored to actual buildings or architecture events, there are comments in the news section.
Archinect, Attitude and the Future.
I know this is a web forum...
But damn.
This forum has adopted a pervasive attitude of pessimism, sadness and a lack of respect for the profession that it is centered upon.
I have been reading for five years and I have to say, it has never been this bad. As more firms lose work and more of the underemployed and unemployed turn to the internet for a community and shoulder to cry on, you can't open a thread without seeing someones belligerent idiocy put on display.
Recently, it has become clear that this website has become one of the main outlets to generate an impression of the industry as a whole. Architectural Record frequently quotes discussion that occurs on the board and we have had at least one self identified CEO (from one of the top 10 largest firms in the world) trolling about. While it is clear to most that the conversation here does not represent the industry as a whole, to some... (especially impressionable aspiring architects) it does.
It would be interesting to look back twenty years from now, maybe some of us will have become uber-successful in this world... stranger things have happened. Some discussions on this site bring up fabulous points and are full of rich, relevant and current discourse. As the perpetual database that it is, do you think that the historians will look back to this online community for clues to a movement characterized by... Archinect?
Well I for one think that it's far from a delusion of grandeur to imagine the importance that this period of social networking and online communication is, and will be, a defining turning point in the history of all disciplines of design (and everything else).
Maybe this period will end up being characterized by a deafening self-loathing brought on by a legion of undervalued artists.
Thoughts?
my posts especially are undervalued! j/k
Word Lorem!
There are so many crazy posts on here, the ones that are important (at least to me) seem to fall by the wayside.
I wish there was a way for me to flag conversations that I'm interested in following so I can ignore the negative chatter by sad folks and get on with contributing to a reality in which valuable information exchange can enlighten our industry mentality and workflow.
This should be a place where we can identify relevant industry issues, provide constructive opinion on subject and collectively change the way it all works. A lot of people read and value Archinect- that gives participants the power to impact our industry reality.
the pessimism & sadness are well-place considering that things are probably going to get worse & worse*.
i'd imagine in twenty years that we'll look back at 2009/2010 and think of those as the (relatively) good years: when many of us still thought we could have a future as architects.
*this guy seems like a bit of a nutcase to me, but his numbers do help to illustrate the absurd amount of debt right now.
Ive noticed the overwhelming drudgery of the posts the last year. Maybe it's a new group of posters or the club of inner ring posters thats formed or sadly the economic outlook. This site was more fun spirited when the jokers were around like Tumbleweeds and medeler and the platypus. Where did they all go? Remember there was a silent disapproval Robot? I liked that one best. Oh well life goes on, back to work.
it has to get better soon if the world doesnt end first
I have [inadvertantly] done my fair share of thread killing recently.
But one thing I believe is that there is a genuine opportunity for architecture to seriously reinvent itself, and there is no better opportunity than right now. Who was it that said that you should never waste a good crisis?
Threads like NTAAB show there is still passion for great and interesting buildings and that it is possible to create them. It should be inspiration for those people who want to be able to identify and create the conditions where the creation of genuinely good buildings are the norm, not the exception.
I'm just surprised at how often on this message board when a student or other architect posts a question asking for help with a specific problem they are immediately attacked and insulted for the very idea of beckoning the brilliant minds of archinect with their trivial concerns.
Why is it considered so outrageous that someone should seek assistance on the 'nect? I will at times implore the author to provide additional information, but I don't at all see the need to chastise people for offending the 'nects silly sense of decorum.
These are the only threads in which real architectural thinking is possibly. ie. here is a problem, how do we solve it? These should be the most enlightening, enjoyable and productive, but instead these threads are ignored and discarded for the chance to have yet another discussion of graduate school admission policies.
good point Synergy
architects tend to be cynical already
it can get out of hand easily on the internet
sometimes someone is new to the boards and honestly doesnt know something has been talked about a million times already
to jump down someone's throat and go nuts at them just because you think they should have searched all the past threads to see if anything related to their question is a bit ridiculous
everyone was new here at some point, and just because a question has already been asked by us or discussed by us, doesnt mean that it has for everyone
Some of us are just inborn pessimists.
seems to be a somewhat common trait among people who become architects
a lot of glass half empty type personalities
Personally- I got into architecture so I could have a positive impact on society, which I maintain is something that architecture can do.
I have a feeling that I'm not the only one out there that feels this way. I'll bet that people are just frustrated with the result of their efforts to generate interesting architectural discourse in their professional life and are slowly giving up on their dream while they settle into a life/job/place in the industry that isn't compatible with their initial interest in architecture.
I think that Archinect can be a place that supports and enables us to accomplish our architectural goals rather than one that reinforces frustration, disappointment, and cynicism as an accepted norm.
lorem ... thank you so much for starting this thread. I think this sort of dialogue is long overdue.
I once was a frequent reader and poster here on Archinect. But, conditions deteriorated so badly a year or so back that, for all practical purposes, I stopped posting with any meaningful frequency - I also dramatically reduced how often I can here to read the threads.
At a very personal level, I just reached a place where I didn't see the point of continued participation. There has emerged a huge lack of respect among posters and some seem to come here only to drop glib, sarcastic comments and then move on without making any sort of constructive contribution whatsoever. Others seem to come here just to pump up their post count and, remarkably, never really offer anything remotely interesting -- they just become irritating static.
I think Archinect once was -- and could be again -- a tremendous resource for the members of our profession. There are (or were) many decent, thoughtful and constructive participants. Many members with considerable experience in the profession have, in the past, been quite willing to share their experience with the younger members of this forum. And, the younger members of the forum help the more senior participants, like myself, stay connected with the thinking of other generations.
Personally, I don't know if the forum can be reconstructed -- but, I hope it can. I've enjoyed many educational hours here and feel a void in my professional discourse since conditions deteriorated so badly.
nicely put BG
I agree
i also have noticed in the past those who seem to feel a need to post on every single thread, with the only intent i can think of to be as you said, pumping their post count
which then would give them more cred to bash anyone who is new and asks a question that has already been asked
why some would feel the need to post that they are tired of reading this type of thread is beyond me
like they HAD to read the thread?
it gets old and i imagine has driven a lot of people away from the site before they even spent any time here
what first brought me here and got me started was that i had some actual architectural questions, either for a project or for my own personal curiousity, and had very helpful answers given and discussions
It seems less of that nowadays
I'm sure that I've contributed to this, but have two thoughts to share (not sure whether they'll turn out in support or denial yet, I'll think it out as I type):
First, I think it's perfectly natural for a community to have a certain vibe to it. Architect's has tended to be slightly snarky, but I'm not sure that that's divergent from the profession in general. Additionally, I believe that the trend towards negative posts right now is a direct result of current industry factors such as the slowdown in construction, layoffs, and the long-standing disconnect between academia and the profession. Are we supposed to hide those issues, or how we feel about them, for the sake of public image or to encourage more young people to enter the profession? I don't think it would really help anyone to do so. You point out that a "one self identified CEO" peruses the boards: I think that it can only help him to know that this is how the young people in his firm probably also feel, and what happens to people after he lays them off. So I guess this is a vote for keeping it real, because there's tons of fiction and marketing material out there already.
Second, I happen to personally have a big problem with people who post some of those specific queries you mention. When they ask for help finding precedents for something, or ask if something is possible, then that's fine and great and useful (for them and for others). But many of these queries seem to ask the hive-mind of archinect to do their homework, and that bothers me a lot. When I was a teaching assistant, there was a certain type of student would would become exasperated by critiques and eventually come to me after class basically saying "Just tell me exactly what to do and I'll do it." Design doesn't work that way, life doesn't work that way, and archinect shouldn't work that way either.
Just my 2 pennies.
I agree with Rationalist 100%
Part of the exasperation of responders to marginal threads [hopefully] comes from some collective reponsibility to 'encourage' people to think and work for themselves.
I for one try and comment on threads where I feel I have a relevant point. Pretty easy really, because being based in NZ, alot of the North American issues I have no idea of.
I'd be curious to find out how many members and visitors Archinect now gets...
I think it's important to consider that architecture is an intense profession at a time (today) of rapid and oftentimes disruptive change. Everything from the climate to the continued viability of energy and water resources to the world geopolitical balance of power to the structure and basic assumptions of the international economic order are all in flux. To be an architect or designer in today's world is at once incredibly exciting and frighteningly uncertain.
Forums like this one are needed, as a mirror onto the world in which we live and work, as a sounding board for ideas and concerns, and as a source of guidance for what is to come. Even the odd snippy comment (and I confess to being the source of some of them - AquillatheNun frankly brings out the worse in me) reflect the world in which we have to live and function.
I don't think a forum such as archinect can separate itself from our fears and hopes, and all of the myriad ways through which we each personally, respond to uncertainty.
rationalist, your second point reminds me of the Jim McAllister character in Election. I can't imagine how projecting your TA baggage onto complete strangers online is going to be constructive in any way for anyone involved. It certainly won't, as diabase hopes, encourage people to think for themselves.
oh goodness. Maybe I wasn't as clear as I thought it was: these people who ask what they should do their thesis on, or what a professor wants them to do for a certain assignment (how the heck are we supposed to know that anyway?!) are doing the same thing as those students were. Us giving them the answers, which it's difficult to impossible for us to know in the first place, doesn't help them learn.
and I don't think that I'm "projecting TA baggage": I felt this way before I taught and just didn't have a handy comparison to illustrate it yet.
oops,
I'm gnu, but I have the same diagnosis. Just a lot of terror out there. Not much that can be done.... Maybe the State of the Union tonight will help.
Cheers all,
JAM
but is it the questions or the hostile responses to those questions that contribute to a "pervasive attitude of pessimism, sadness and lack of respect" online?
Point proven?
as in, fadetoblacko:
What is the point of that particular post?
I agree with loremipsum ... I love architecture and I want to find more places where I can discuss architecture with others, but I have not posted on this board anywhere near as much as I would if the immaturity and non-constructive negative attitudes of some posters were not so discouraging.
Name some names, people!
Let's not have a passive-aggressive witch hunt!
I'm gonna go ahead and bite the bullet, I know I am one of the duds they are talking about, sorry guys...
I use to have to fix every construction prob my bro had at his bar/restaurant.
He wondered why the front door kept getting ripped off it's hinges every Sat night.
"if you invite the public, they inevitably show up," was my response. That's the same problem here.
He went to lawyer skool, problem solved.
This is a public forum....
i see i haven't been missing much.
All the uncertainty brings out the worst. Wait five years, and the sanity might return.
"Life is reality"
the snooker
go piss in your pants...hipster architects! lol
in the year 2000, in the year 2000
I would agree that the lack of respect is perhaps something to think about.. but the point I was trying to make earlier is, why do we object to expressions of pessimism and sadness? There is nothing intrinsic about architecture that demands we be smiling cheerleaders. We have to be able to design for an era of crises, depression and environmental devastation if that's what the world develops into.
I for one think that we are, as a country, going to continue to face dark times for many years to come. I don't buy the dreamily hopeful vision the president is trying to sell. I sincerely do believe that we face years of very high unemployment, that our generation will face massive downward mobility relative to our parents, that growing inequality combined with an irreconciliable political divide will be the dominant trends domestically, that China is going to clean our national clock economically and emerge in the long term as a rather sinister type of global hegemon, and I believe that we will face a world increasingly overwhelmed by the consequences of resource depletion and climate change.
And I believe that as American designers we have to come up with ideas and visions for urban transformation that'll be able to mitigate at least some of this dark future we face. That's OUR mission.
Does this pessimism - about the world, not about our profession - mean y'all are saying I don't belong on Archinect? Cause if that's what y'all are saying, then you're sort of arguing that this forum should be renamed the "Ostriche-head-in-sand Blog."
Urbanist - for me, the question of optimism vs. pessimism is not terribly relevant. What allows a forum like this to work effectively for a large group of members is a reasonably consistent level of thoughtful discourse, consistent mutual respect and a mutual desire to teach and learn. IMO, if those conditions are present, this forum can withstand wildly opposing views with impunity.
My 2 cents
I personally, don't encourage the posts where people are just asking for someone else to do their homework. But do try to help with precedent or threads like the detail thread, job site pic, thesis help (when not just a question but a dialog)...
And I don't feel that the tone has become that much worse since i started frequenting. Now I am not an old Archinect hand. But while people may be pessisimistic or unemployed I don't feel like everyone is angry or yelling. Their is genuine friendship, communication, assistance and good will in many posts.
Just depends on which ones you frequent i guess..
when people arent able to do what they like to do, theyre going to get frivolous. in times of danger people will turn to the internet for its anonymity. Another problem also is that some people on here have appointed themselves as the saints of this site, and adopt a holier than thou attitude. kind of runs in the profession too. perhaps humanity as well. no need to lose hope though. there are still great posts here, just have to filter through the mariposas
its ok diabase dont cry
On the point of mutual respect, I do have to wonder why Archinect reviewers of user-submitted images in the library are so harsh. I mean really, the top rated student project only gets a 3 out of 5? Among the hundreds upon hundreds of submissions?
fadetoblacko: point proven again.
loremipsum:
"While it is clear to most that the conversation here does not represent the industry as a whole, to some... (especially impressionable aspiring architects) it does." There's a point... There are alot of fresh graduates, architecture students and would-be architecture students coming to these forums to seek out information on what it is that our profession does really... What is said constructs a view of the industry as a whole, an impression at least... Although the same can be said of architecture schools and academia, and architectural publications... Probably more so than even a forum like this... There is a construction, as always, of history and narrative of what architecture is happening... It doesn't necessarily reflect what is really happening in the industry as a whole... I would actually think that at least in the forum, there is a certain degree of informality to it... Stream of consciousness and an ongoing banter or conversation and links to images, references to articles, etc. that maintains a certain amount of authenticity... At least on a forum, you are talking out loud with real people... It's unfortunate that in this recession, sometimes that banter turns to cyncism or pessimism... I think there used to be alot more *archinect mentorship* on here if that means anything... in the sense that: there were a number of great veterans of the profession on here who were very active, and would put us young 'uns in our place, say the right kinds of things to encourage and inform those of us new to the profession about what the profession was really about, but also inspire and generate meaningful discourse... Offer real critiques of academia and particular architectural works, etc. (as well as pointing out the merits of architectural education)... People who could speak from experience... I think alot of those veteran voices these days have gone away, not sure why... Maybe it's the economy... Those are probably the people dealing with managing through this economy... It's been a tough year for most of us... Layoffs, falling off projects and slowing of business, friends and colleagues missing, etc... I think alot of people are just burnt out... If I was just forced to lay off 5 good people from my office staff, I probably wouldn't be in the mood to chat on a forum either... On the other hand, those 5 laid off people might be venting on a forum... :PFunny to think of a web forum and these random threads as a historical / anthropological artifact... The nature of the blogisphere and web media is such that it's easy to forget that we are all being recorded as a document... It'd be interesting to go back 10 years and read what people were talking about on archinect then... We are creating historic artifacts as we speak... All these things are being transcribed!... The anonymity and free participation of basically any fool with a computer (or a smart phone) means basically anybody can be a participant of history... It's "public" and a historic document... In the same way that for example the diaries and letters are nowadays analyzed by historians... The reach of the web also makes it a political and culture shaping medium... These days elections are won on Youtube and in the blogisphere and social media networks... Networks of people are mobilized via twitter in response to crises like Haiti, to generate and transmit information, etc... Who knows - a site like archinect might just be the best gage now of the national mood of the profession generally (even if it is not quite an accurate representation of the industry... not representative of the true range of demographic, etc.)
Be careful what you write: the "unhappy hipsters" thread is going to be one hillarious excerpt in a volume of "the anthropology of the architecture profession" 20 years from now... :P
This forum has been around since... 1997? It's 13 years old... The young architects who were on here in the pimpin' architecture days are well into their careers by now, probably significant in our profession... 20 years from now what will our generation be doing...?
outbreak of white supremaracists
bitter dilletantes who value sounding witty and subversive over all else
(some also tend to be drugged, drunk and juvenile..others grow up that way)
rita novel's death
earthquakes
floods
wars
armageddon?
supremacists...excuse my typo on account of my butchered nose.
It is totally unacceptable to come in and start posting 144 characters or less diatribes just because you can in this forum and lessen the value of something that took years and many thoughtful posts by other members to build up.
I think it is pretty much insult to people who contributed a lot to this forum and made it arguably the most intelligent, fun, helpful, respected and referred architectural forum in the world.
Within my +,- 5000 posts I have done jokes, heated arguments, thoughtful advice, snarky and ironic posts, sharing my 30 plus years of experience in architecture, made beautiful friends and learned a lot from others here. It is surely very disappointing for people to sign up and start posting things more fit for thoughtless internet talk you see in some youtube comments.
I am not at all against posts being pessimistic, argumentative and even snarks, etc. as long as they are necessitated, imaginative, creative, useful to others and they contribute to thread which they are posted in.
And, even though I have been unfairly regarded as such and get a lot of complaints, I am not a forum police either. I don't think anybody is unless it becomes so violent, threatening and pornographic. There are minimal but very clear rules.
The screen names come and go but what you build up and say remain.
Although you don't pay in monetary terms, the membership and time at the lectern in this forum is not free.
And, your posts eventually show how much you have paid for your membership and how much your opinions and contributions worth.
I've been around for a while now. IMO - this forum really hasn't changed - it's still populated by a small minority of people who are in various stages of becoming mentally unhinged - probably due to this career path we've all taken (or taken a liking too).
I do think people are just grumpier than normal, though...
"i am pissed off that not enough people are pissed off" - bill maher
Oh my god toaster that link is freaking hilarious.
I've been avoiding posting here because I'm so completely one of the old timers that everyone thinks is also somehow in a position of power. I'm not. So the only thing I'm going to say is: this forum has always gone through cycles of being happy, helpful, and fun contrasted with cycles of grumpy, distracted, and screeching. We're just in one of those latter cycles now. But thoughtful queries tend to be responded to by people with experience and generosity.
I forgot to mention - and this is why my post count is so high (I'm dim-witted) - if you like discussion more tailored to actual buildings or architecture events, there are comments in the news section.
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