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Mir-Hossein Mousavi an architect

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oe

It appears pro-government militia are firing into crowds, at least one instance several hours ago reportedly at Azadi Square has left one dead and several injured. More information again here. Be very careful Nomad.

Jun 15, 09 4:25 pm  · 
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nomadzilla

These are the best photos i could find on the web:

Iran Protests

Jun 15, 09 6:00 pm  · 
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Living in Gin

Interesting article, oe. I had been wondering how all these images, Twitter feeds, and YouTube videos were making it outside of Iran even after the sites had supposedly been blocked by the government. It's pretty amazing what this technology is doing.

In related news, Twitter was supposed to be down tonight for routine server maintenance, but people are protesting the outage so that Iran isn't cut off.

Jun 15, 09 6:27 pm  · 
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following up on oe, if you want to help an iranian out, download this and offer a hookup to bypass the filters:

http://psiphon.ca/node/16

I don't know how nomadzilla has such easy internet access, but everybody else I know there has a heavily filtered trickle at best. by design, it's keeping word about things like tuesday's general strike from spreading.

Jun 15, 09 6:31 pm  · 
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nomadzilla

@subtect: I'm using my father's university faculty VPN line.
But all ISP's in iran have blocked all social network sites, twitter, youtube and any website related to any of the candidates other than ahmadinejad. Also all foreign news agencies websites are filtered.

Jun 16, 09 2:51 am  · 
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mantaray

Hi nomadzilla, just wanted you to know what you and other Mousavi supporters have a lot of support here in the US -- lots of news coverage here regarding the election and lots of support. Although for a very sad reason, it is nice to see americans rallying behind persians & thinking about democracy support on a global scale. Hope you stay safe out there, and thanks for the insider coverage -- it's hard to tell what's really going on.

Jun 16, 09 9:19 am  · 
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med.

lol

"Persians...."

Jun 16, 09 9:36 am  · 
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mantaray

whoops, I grew up with a lot of Iranian friends who called themselves persians -- is that not the right thing to say? if not, sorry, it was unintentional.

Jun 16, 09 11:07 am  · 
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Living in Gin

IIRC, most Iranians are ethnically Persian (as opposed to Arabic)... I don't think there's anything particularly derogatory about the term, even though the country isn't called Persia anymore.

Jun 16, 09 11:14 am  · 
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med.

There's a good reason. While Persian or "Farsi" is the official language of Iran, not everyoine in Iran is ethnically Persian. There are huge populations of Azeri, Armenian, Kurdish, and Arab people in Iran as well. Ethnic Persians only account for up to 60% of the total population.

Jun 16, 09 11:39 am  · 
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Living in Gin

Thanks for the clarification, Med. Like most Americans, I don't know nearly as much about that part of the world as I should.

Andrew Sullivan is providing some of the best coverage of these events. Here's a Photoshop gem from his blog:

Jun 16, 09 11:45 am  · 
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med.

and LIG, you're right there is nothing derogatory about calling people Persians. As amatter of fact there are large groups of Iranians particularly in America who pride themselves in calling themselves "Persians."

There iws a newer Southpark episode about it. Absolutely hillarious.

Jun 16, 09 11:46 am  · 
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fays.panda

what you're saying is true, but, mantaray is not at wrong, alot of iranians still refer to themselves as persians, mostly (from what i observed) because they want to dissociate themselves with the "Islamic Republic of Iran"

Jun 16, 09 11:47 am  · 
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Moses

the terminology

from their language to english

fars/farsi -----> pars/parsi -----> persi / persi ----> persia / persia


just like the name David, originating from the middle east.

Davood/ Dawood -----> David

etc etc..


its all the same thing...

, but some iranians like to say Persian, becuase it makes them feel more proud, as its history was made up before it was called Iran, when it was called (pharsi/persia)

Jun 16, 09 11:48 am  · 
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med.

Uhhhhhh.... guys..... seriously.

Iran has been called "Iran" since waaaay before the Islamic Republic was founded in 1979. It's been called Iran since about the 30s and it was far from an Islamic republic then.

Westerners love making it sound like Iranians are ashamed of their Islamic herritage.

Jun 16, 09 11:54 am  · 
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Living in Gin

namhenderson posted this via Facebook, but I think it's worth sharing here as well:

Images for a New Age: Tehran Street Art

Beautiful and fascinating.





Jun 16, 09 12:23 pm  · 
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nomadzilla

hey folks,
About us calling ourselves Persians: We just basically say that to distract westerners from whatever they are hearing about Iran (nuclear issues, hostage taking, terrorism, etc.).
Unfortunately the west doesn't seem to remember that Iran has many many positive aspects too.
Thus, we're PERSIAN! westerner's mentality associates being Persian with different things, positive things mostly, like: Persian cat, Persian rug or the ancient Persian empire...
Another reason is that this way we can explain the ethnic difference between Persians and Arabs, something that confuses most westerners.

BTW, the street art was very cool, I should go look for some of it tomorrow. Would post photos if i found any.

Jun 16, 09 1:19 pm  · 
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nomadzilla

Personally, i prefer being called "Persian",
I'll switch back to being "Iranian" whenever the relationship between Iran and the west improves.

Jun 16, 09 1:21 pm  · 
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med.

Arabs are Semitic
Persians are Indo-European

I grew up in an area where people didn't even know the difference between Indian and Chinese.... So I'm sure there are some who are hopelessly clueless on what a Persian is....

Jun 16, 09 1:29 pm  · 
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mantaray

gotcha, med, thanks! will be sure to say "iranian" in the future -- I understand how that must feel. My family is part of an ethnic minority group that often gets overlooked as well. Good to know!

Yeah there was definitely an element of "persian pride" in my group of iranian friends growing up. Probably an expat solidarity thing -- makes you feel like you're keeping your culture alive, honoring your culture, etc.

Jun 16, 09 1:38 pm  · 
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mantaray

"gotcha, med" in reference to your earlier post, not the last, which thankfully I know already (so I don't have to feel foolish).

as regards this though:
"Westerners love making it sound like Iranians are ashamed of their Islamic herritage."

sounds weird to me -- I never met an Iranian ashamed of their Islamic heritage and have never heard anyone imply that. So that I would disgree with. Maybe it just feels that way to you since muslims in general are looked down on in the west (sadly).

Jun 16, 09 1:42 pm  · 
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Moses

"I'll switch back to being "Iranian" whenever the relationship between Iran and the west improves."

this sounds too suspicious, i have never met an iranian who bases his identity on what the west thinks... i guess the cultural mentality of indo-europeans and semetics differ greatly.

Jun 16, 09 1:48 pm  · 
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med.

manta, you can call them whatever you want. I was just saying people often equate the name "Iran" to a kind of fanatic Islamic culture but it simply isn't the case. And people in the west have this really terrible delusion that "Persians" are shamed of their Islamic heritage which couldn't be further from total falsehood.

Whether anyone likes it or not the Shi'a Islam establishment in Iran deeply rooted, and fundamentally a part of the culture there. But little by little separation between mosque and state should be a reality.

I mean remember the difficulty that Khatami had with the Ayatollahs? I only hope that the events now will give full power to the elected president whether it's Mousavi or Ahmedinajad.

BTW, I was down in on Pennyslvania Ave yesterday and saw a protest of about 100 Mousavi supporters and an equal number of Ahmedinajad supporters.

Jun 16, 09 1:53 pm  · 
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nomadzilla

med is right, there are Iranians who do feel ashamed of their islamic heritage, but those are mostly extremely westernized iranians, and this sense has increased post 9/11.

Personally, i consider myself an Iranian Muslim. Nation before religion, and that's one difference that is obvious between my generation of Iranians and many of my predecessors.
That's why the current regime is an advocate and supporter of Palestine, and me...well not as much. at least when it's not in my own country's interest. The Iranians who support palestinians do so in an attempt to show their common religious grounds, whether the government uses this sympathy in aan inhumane way is another issue.
Oops, sorry, i promised myself not to enter the Israel/Palestine issue.

Back to the Persian/Islamic issue, yes there are those who pretend they are Persian Christians or Persian Zoroastrians who have names like Mohammad or Ali....

Jun 16, 09 1:57 pm  · 
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Moses

these pictures come from a person called Leah Borromeo, from this blog http://fryingpanfireblog.wordpress.com/about/ . Leah Borromeo does not sound like an Iranian name.


notice the ONE eyes, on this poster:

Jun 16, 09 1:57 pm  · 
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med.

I agree Moses. Hiding from what you are is basically playing into the hands of those who are ignorant and judgmental bigots to begin with.

I trace my roots from a country that has had an absolute shit reputation since the 1960s and (gotten only worse) but I'm proud to say what I am! I don't give a fuck what anyone thinks.

Jun 16, 09 1:57 pm  · 
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Moses

yeah med, i was just wondering, someone who says i will change my identity back to iranian when the relationship with the west gets better, sounds all too suspicious and not iranian at all.

Jun 16, 09 2:01 pm  · 
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med.

Again I agree. Either the person is a self-loathing Iranian or a American trying to pose as an Iranian "suffering." That is the only other possibile way I can explain why an Iranian living in Iran wishes for Israel to invade them. I mean do people like him see what the life that is slightly more pleasant than death is like for the Palestinians?

I mean I agree that Iran needs to be more open and more free. It is one of the few countries int he Middle East that truly has potential and would be a good ally against terrorism. Think about the mutual enemies Iran has with the US: Al Qaeda, Saddam Hussein's Ba'ath Party, the Taliban, the Wahabist cults, etc etc.

You want a true totalitarian experience: Imagine what it was like living under Saddam Hussein's reign for 10 years...

Jun 16, 09 2:09 pm  · 
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nomadzilla

@ moses: I've been seriously insulted when i referred to my self as an Iranian in the US, but never as a Persian.
It's the same content with different names. The thing that matters to me is that i'm proud of my history, culture, heritage and specially architecture. And I'll try to express this pride whether the west is tolerable towards it or not.

@med: REALLY?!?!? Ahmadinejad supporters on Penn Ave? One of my relatives was a supervisor of the polls in the US on friday and this is how he broke down the results:
Moosavi: 89.5%
Karroubi: 7%
Ahmadinejad: 3%
Rezaei: 0.5%

This is the semi-official results of Iranians who voted in the US.

So i find it really strange that the 3% of iranians in the US would be able to organize a protest....

Jun 16, 09 2:11 pm  · 
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nomadzilla

wait a second, seems like Moses and Med are making this personal.

I NEVER said I would support Israel invading iran, and about my comment on the nuclear facility, i told you that i'll get back to that later and explain why i think its in my national interest if that was destroyed.
So back off calling me a self-loathing Iranian.

Med, I wouldn't expect you to write such hateful comments about your neighbor. I mean, if you're one of those Pan-arab Iraqis who hate Iranians that's fine with me, but don't make it personal with a total stranger who is only writing about what he is experiencing in his country right now. that's just cruel.

And it's cruel for both of you (Moses and Med) to judge someone you really don't know anything about based on two sentences. Shame on you. If you haven't experienced living in the US after 9/11 and having your mother chanted by American rednecks just because of her scarf... then you should FUCK OFF preaching me about national pride and identity.


Jun 16, 09 2:24 pm  · 
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nomadzilla

wait a second, seems like Moses and Med are making this personal.

I NEVER said I would support Israel invading iran, and about my comment on the nuclear facility, i told you that i'll get back to that later and explain why i think its in my national interest if that was destroyed.
So back off calling me a self-loathing Iranian.

Med, I wouldn't expect you to write such hateful comments about your neighbor. I mean, if you're one of those Pan-arab Iraqis who hate Iranians that's fine with me, but don't make it personal with a total stranger who is only writing about what he is experiencing in his country right now. that's just cruel.

And it's cruel for both of you (Moses and Med) to judge someone you really don't know anything about based on two sentences. Shame on you. If you haven't experienced living in the US after 9/11 and having your mother chanted by American rednecks just because of her scarf... then you should FUCK OFF preaching me about national pride and identity.


Jun 16, 09 2:25 pm  · 
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Moses

uhm nomadzilla, i did not mention israel, so i dont know what you are talking about lol

Jun 16, 09 2:37 pm  · 
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nomadzilla

I was talking about med.

Jun 16, 09 2:45 pm  · 
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Moses

i just read this : "If you haven't experienced living in the US after 9/11 and having your mother chanted by American rednecks just because of her scarf..."


its interesting how 'racism' against islamics is of mediocore importance in comparison to the racism against the mixed raced judaics of america.

secondly, i would never have let that happen to my mother, i would literally beat the fuck out of them. rather than resort to thinking about identity transitions.

thirdly, it explains alot about some immigrant americans (rednecks)..

if what you say is true about yourself.. well good luck nomadzilla, ...

im glad i am semetic, ...

if the rednecks only knew where there names, religoun, beer, money, etc really comes from... well... it'd make them more redneckish.

Jun 16, 09 2:51 pm  · 
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med.

Nomad, I appologize. I didn't mean to sound so abrasive and hurt your feelings like that. It's just that I've definitely seen a lot of Iranians who have thought this way. It's bad enough that there are a lot of Turks who are Muslim but are ashamed by it and prattle some kinda bullshit about their pre-Islamic civilization being so great and superior! Yes believe it or not, I've amazing met Turks who think like that!

I'm not Iraqi btw. I'm Indian-American. But I've spent a lot of time in the gulf working with Iraqis and likewise Iranians.

Jun 16, 09 3:05 pm  · 
 · 

Guys,
Let's try and keep it non-personal ok?

We don't need to start questioning motives, beliefs identity.

Just use this to keep others updated and to express (or not) support.

Jun 16, 09 3:05 pm  · 
 · 

has any one found any firmer evidence of rigging? everything I've seen is still quite circumstantial...

if mousavi has evidence, for example his claims of 10 million votes without ID#, then why hasn't anyone seen it? enough other news is getting out, including updates from his own website, why not the smoking gun?

Jun 16, 09 3:42 pm  · 
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nomadzilla

Thanks med, i thought you're originally iraqi since you mentioned "Imagine what it was like living under Saddam Hussein's reign for 10 years..." I thought you've actually experienced that....

You can't imagine how hard it is to be called self-loathing, etc. when your literally fighting for democracy and freedom in your country (an experience i doubt any of you folks have).
maintaining the movement we now call the "green revolution" depends on how the world sees us, and acknowledges our existence and resistance. As i mentioned earlier, if your governments recognizes Ahmadinejad as the president of Iran, there won't be much to fight for.
We're pressuring the regime as much as we can, some with our very lives. If the international pressure is in array with our own efforts we will prevail with less casualties.

Updates: Tehran was relatively quiet tonight, people did yell slogans from their rooftops but i didn't see any tear gas or guards in my area.

seems like the pressure is building up and the government is trying to soften people with promises to re-count the votes. basically they want to re-cheat the cheat.

Journalists have been ordered to leave the country. That is very dangerous because it means the regime wants to use its brutality without the world seeing.
I hope social networking sites and small efforts on the web (like the one i'm making on archinect) help aware the world about the situation in Iran.

I'll be away for 48 hours, trying to attend to some unfinished bureaucratic business before the government gets out of hand.

Signing off from Tehran,
Nomad

Jun 16, 09 3:47 pm  · 
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Moses

@subtect

Im firmly a believer that this is just the same as what Chaves had to go through with the 2002 CIA coup against him...

the zionist media also calls Chaves's country a "REGIME"

to me its a load of bullshit and it has always been bullshit...

Its a big coup with some idiotic students joining in, who happen to like rock music and think they're rebels.

ZIONIST MEDIA is loving this, you dont hear about Saudi Arabia and their 'regime', oh no they're not part of the last 5 countries to have a Rothchild bank.

im sorry nomad if your going through pain with this, but you're in the middle of shit hitting the fan.

Jun 16, 09 3:55 pm  · 
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med.

Nomad, be careful out there.

And for the record, it's going to take a lot more than voting Ahmedinijad out -- it's all about re-establishing the country so that the Khameini and the Ayatollahs aren't the real rulers of the country.

Iran has a lot of the pieces in place for its political puzzle but needs still needs that ONE big piece that would put it all together.

Jun 16, 09 3:55 pm  · 
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Living in Gin

Let's put it this way: Imagine if, on November 4th 2008, within minutes of the polls closing, it was announced that Barack Obama lost Chicago by 23%. And New York, and Texas, and California, and Montana, etc.... All by the exact same percentage. And as elections "returns" continued to be updated throughout the evening, the 23% margin remained unchanged. That's about how credible this election was.

Jun 16, 09 3:56 pm  · 
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Living in Gin

(in response to subtect)

Jun 16, 09 3:57 pm  · 
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Moses

the only countires that do not have a rothschild bank:-

Cuba
Venezuala
Iran <-------------- the most promising Capatlist country on the list.
Syria
North Korea

Ex-non rothschild countires:-

Iraq, before the war.
Libya.. gaddafi is alligned..

Countries you thought would get pressured, BUT ARE NOT BECUASE THEY HAVE ROTHCHILD BANKS:-

- Saudi Arabia, probably the worst regime, but are ass kissed.
- America - probably the worlds biggest destroyer of almost everything
- Zimbabwe - starved their population.
- Israel - over 60 or so years, they have the incarcinated a group of people with the similar mentality to their ex-bullies.

Now look into who the rothchilds are and where they originally come from.

Jun 16, 09 4:15 pm  · 
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nomadzilla

One last update before i get some sleep,

med.: I totally agree, but that's almost impossible to achieve right now. but the difference between a reformist president and an ultra-conservative one is immense. It's kinda sad to say this but we're fighting just to get what we had five years ago. It's not political progress, it's resisting a backward coup.

updates: One of Iran's top clerics has called for three days of mourning for those who have been killed during the past four days.
The bassijis opened fire at the boys dorm at my alma mater university in Tehran, killing one and injuring several students.
The streets are still rather silent. Telephone calls from abroad have also become quite difficult and the internet might be cut off all together, so don't worry if i wasn't able to update anymore. I'll try to keep myself out of the way of bullets and batons.
LIG's comparison was very true. The credibility decreases even more, when you see that a province that has historically voted for reformists (over 80% reformist up to the last election) has now done the exact opposite (80% for ahmadinejad), for the first time, and this has been announced 1.5 hours after polls have closed, and hundreds of thousands of the residents of that province have been protesting the results ever since the polls were announced.
Thanks again to those of you who are supporting Iran's right for democracy.

Jun 16, 09 4:17 pm  · 
 · 
oe

Moses, really man? I mean I hate to be the one to break this to you, I do it out of love, but the "Zionist Media" is a figment of your imagination. It really is. In fact, just as a favor, I have to break it to you that the moment someone mentions the word "zionist" it becomes pretty impossible for anyone else to take anything they have to say seriously. Its kind of like saying aliens did it.

Jun 16, 09 5:42 pm  · 
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Moses

@oe :

any intellect would know that the likes of the BBC and Fox News are Pro Zionism... i think someone like yourself, are scared to even get into to the whole debate in fear of your national pride..

again as i said, this whole zionism talk damages American PRIDE... which is why you dont like it.

Jun 16, 09 5:47 pm  · 
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Living in Gin

BBC and Fox News are part of the same Zionist conspiracy? That's a new one.

Jun 16, 09 6:15 pm  · 
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Moses

THE BBC refuses airtime to Gaza aid appeal...... who the fuck are you kidding... its internationall acknowledged that fox and the bbc are one of the most Biased media outlets.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/jan/23/bbc-refuses-gaza-appeal

you wonder where the american stereotype comes from, jesus christ.

and you wonder, who would re-elect George Bush twice ...

Jun 16, 09 6:21 pm  · 
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this almost begins to smell like fear:

"In the elections, voters had different tendencies, but they equally believe in the ruling system and support the Islamic Republic," Khamenei said at a meeting with representatives of the four presidential candidates. "Nobody should take any action that would create tension, and all have to explicitly say they are against tension and riots."

Jun 17, 09 12:57 am  · 
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