to begin with, i must say that it depends on the individual concerned; some culture-hawks might enjoy being in a very idiosynchratic area.

re:compounds,,,most expats who can afford to live on compounds do so, but the majority of expats are humbler of means and accomodation. you mean to say "western" expats i expect. these are not the larger percentage of expats, of course. anyway, for those who can afford it, compounds make total sense providing them with facilities and hopefully a social, albeit insular and inorganic, life that would offset the general estrangement relating compound and you to the overall surrounding.

living conditions: i had my own flat, accomodation is much less expensive than elsewhere in the gulf; mind you though, my experience and observation is that the salaries can be less than UAE salaries, to benchmark it against another gulf arab hotspot. of course, the imperative race/nationality discrimination immediately reflects on your salary.

cars are realtively not expensive, fuel is cheap of course. you will encounter extremely dangerous driving to the point of being farcical; 13 year old boys driving SUV's...oh yes.

jeddah, and i expect dammam/khobar, is much more 'liberal' than riyadh. of course, "liberal" on a saudi scale. its common knowledge that people from riyadh are generally more reserved.

yes, women can work in saudi. they can't drive however and would need to hire a driver. a police officer can readily overlook a little boy driving an SUV, but women? nononononono

personally, for me, i lived a strange life in saudi. on the one hand, ithere was a peculair element of monk-ish starkness to it all and on the other hand i was a total slut. you learn to use and abuse the foldings of the veil seperating private and public, so to speak. everything exists in saudi, alchohol, drugs, rampant extra-marital/hetero/homo and very likely bestial sex (of course), but it all happens in this folding. overall, there were moments of extreme discomfort and solitude which many of the single people i knew there (most who were not western) also expressed.
which brings me to a principle of sorts regarding saudi: its much much easier for couples (strictly marital for hetero's of course) to exist in saudi than it is for single persons.

professionally, it was alright for what it is; being my first job. i was not enamoured of the designs being produced. but thankfully, i didn't work on incecream cake palace architecture..except for one little excercise at the very beginning.



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Moving to Saudi Arabia is not even on my radar but I read the post, curious about what people had to say...and wow. Thanks for sharing your experience; how interesting to hear an inside perspective.

Thanks for your reply.

Perhaps I should have been more clear in my initial post--I am American and I have worked in a few major cities here. I'm not sure where you're from. In summary, I am considering going if the pay is substantially better, and if at least some part of life can continue as we are accustomed (even if in a simulated manner) be it that the office or compound environment may be a positive and rewarding place. The culture and reality would be interesting but not really the point for us.

Was the firm you worked for American, or one of the largest firms? I understand pay and benefits are much better than for the same job in the US--are you in a position to say how much so? How did you find your job there? The projects and pace must be go-go-go, no? The hours must be intense, I'm guessing.

I would be going with my wife, so not alone. That's good to hear that women can work, though I imagine it could be more difficult to find. I've read that it's now legal for women to drive, though unsafe like you mentioned.

What about everyday conveniences that we take for granted here--like finding food, appliances, clothing, furnishings, etc that we're accustomed to.

Since the position I'm discussing is in Jeddah, it's somewhat resussuring to hear that it's less conservative than Riyadh. Still, the sense of loss of personal freedom must be difficult. For example, I've read that women generally don't go out at night. And western women don't have to weir veils, but either way would be awkward. For entertainment, I understand film and literature is censored. I wonder if that means internet access is limited as well.

I could go on forever with questions but this is probable enough for now. Thanks.

Also, it's intersting to hear your experience of the foldings of the veil. I understand the religious police are quite fearful, so I hadn't realized so many people lived out their needs and impulses undeterred.

what surprised me is that flickr is banned in UAE.

Pascot;

the intensity of work is dependent on your company; there is no general rule. i only did overtime as needed and not so often; draftsmen, on the other hand, worked around 12 hours a day.

i reiterate, women are not allowed to drive in saudi. you'll have to hire a driver to allow your wife flexible mobility; this, at least, is the typical setup.

for food, appliances, etc so on so forth, the most comprehensively stocked supermarket chain is 'Danube'...in Jeddah that is. 'Jareer' is where you go for computers, stationaries, office equipment, books, dvds, etc. There are plenty of malls; you'll find clothing and all that aplenty there. the Tahlia area is where you'll find a lot of malls, upscale shops, coffee shops, etc. no sex shops sorry. you'll pretty much find everything you need to make you comfortable, materially speaking. you'll have to program your visits to any supermarket/shop/mall as all retail places shut down during prayer times...morning, noon, afternoon, evening. you'll get the hang of it...i didn't, but i'm a total scatter brain.

film and literature: no sex no subversive politics no anti-religious. a lot of the books and movies 'officially' sold in KSA totally bland...how to cook south indian/lebanese/poison for the ladies, how to make much fast money and fiscal ejaculation for the gents...

there are no bars, no cinemas, no churches, no synagogues, no temples, no night clubs...

its also a very cliquey place..as a westrner you'll more or less stick to your own stock, indians to theirs, egyptians to theirs, philipinos to theirs...well, tyo be fair, this happens in many other cties and countries around the world, but its pretty pronounced in ksa.

religious police are less prominent in jeddah than in other places in the kingdom. their presence has declined considerably..i think owing to the complete ridiculousness of their barbaric idiocy. especially after they prevented school girls from fleeing a burning school because they were not wearing the veil or had no male relative escort thus causing many of the girls to burn to death. i am not a religious person, but i hope there is at least a hell for them to end up in.

oh and your wife will have to wear an abaya, the infamous black robe.




its not a lovely place to live in really,

p2an;

true that. quite puzzling really as other photography sites are well accessible and there are burgeoning photography groups all around the uae.

oh...Pascot, no photography allowed in the UAE without royal permission or something.... :0)

The last time i was in Dubai, flickr was NOT accessible from anywhere outside the 'media city' zone. We had to move to a hotel in that area to conduct our work. Oh, yes, no redtube or youp**n or p**nhub.

The Anthony Bourdain episode on Jeddah (im sure you can find it on hulu or youtube) was quite revealing.

A person i know (she is american) works in Qatar, but could not stand Saudi. She mentioned that her friends there did make a lot of dough...

i meant photography is banned in KSA, thats right fays.panda. ironically cameras are cheaper in the KSA than in the UAE i believe. my photogrpaher friend had to get official certification from HRH Prince Blah bin blah bin blah bin blah Al Saud to allow him to take pictures outside..even then, he was stopped and questioned many times. there was this time when some saudi guy thought he was taking a picture of his wife (who was totally swaddled in black cloth anyways) and called the police and he was taken in for questioning and....funnyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

but...if you're into scuba, there's wonderful coral life off the coast. i'm not sure if you require formal certification from aforementioned Bin blah for underwater photohgraphy exposing the fishies in their nuditiy or curstaceans peeping out of their veil.