being a "sole proprietor" has nothing at all to do with holding a license ... anybody can start a business as a sole proprietor ...
however, your state board will want to have something to say about if if you hang out a shingle saying you're an architect if you haven't passed the ARE.
comb - I understand that, I'm just wondering if there is a license requirement.
In addition, does getting a FEIN change your filing status form self employed? Do you need to get a DBA from your county, business checking account, legal consultation, e&o insurance, etc?
In most cases you will need to register with your respective state, town or county to do consulting work as a designer, Architect, etcetera. The interesting story about the guy in Seattle using the farmer's market stall to drum up freelance business is where this interest in this stuff comes from. Many farmers’ markets are run by local governments or government agencies and may require state and federal business tax registrations / filings to get a booth even though you are not selling anything tangible. It is just something to think about, cost is minimal and it could save you money and hassle someday. EID and state business tax registration are just standard things needed to fill out an online application to get a booth at my local farmer’s market.
Apurimac - thanks for your insight. i kind of expected that response. nyc has enough to deal with (ie wall street). good to know that the wtc/freedom tower is pushing forward.
Actually sham only the freedom tower is actively moving forward at this point, the other four towers are all in a holding pattern due to financing issues.
California is more aggressive than most in policing what house designers call themselves. Anything with the letters arch- is a no-no unless licensed.
Calling yourself a house designer can also be a problem if you are offering a service normally provided by an architect or engineer. Many cities and towns in California allow work in accordance with Type V sheets, explanations of what work can be done without a professional if it is in strict accord with proscribed requirements. If you go beyond these requirements, a license is required. the bottom line is to be careful in how you represent yourself and what you offer. It is very easy to cross the threshold in licensed individual country. Hope this helps.
In other states the requirements are less restrictive. Many states allow you to do houses and interior remodels without a license. Check first.
It has been pretty quiet here in the last few days. Is that a good sign or did all the regulars get laid off. Havent heard anything through the grape vine either. Anyone else?
Haven't heard anything. Outside the article in the Washington Post that others have commented on in a different thread. I figure that if anything is going to happen that this would be the week since it is the end of the month and the end of the 1st Qtr. Hopefully, things will slow down on that front. At least for a little while...
I haven't heard of any big new projects at any of the local firms around me. We won't bottom out until you start hearing of new "big" projects being landed instead of the little scraps most firms are living off right now. Talking amongst friends we still think firms around here have room to let another 50% of their staff go.
+1 -- is that our April Fools Day joke? if they really did that then that's harsh. my old place let go of at least another 3 yesterday and there was another firm in Alexandria that had layoffs yesterday as well...
wait till you guys hear this:
A acronym firm based near DC, and with offices all over the country and some around the world made the highest amount of money they have EVER MADE in 2008.
They still proceed to lay off 15% of their workforce, and give all the others A BONUS. wtf?
Kids, do everyone a favor and not work at these kinds of places please!
not a joke. it was an actual layoff.
sameold- and yes, the acronym firms all do that. bonuses are appropriated from budgets from the prior year's profitability. RTKL did it as well. RTKL is owned by Arcadis, who is owned by Arcadis and publicly traded on the Euronext. Their fiscal "year" ended in February, 2008 was best year ever, and employees received bonuses in March along with investors receiving dividends. 20% of the firm was laid off one week before bonuses.
A acronym firm based near DC, and with offices all over the country and some around the world made the highest amount of money they have EVER MADE in 2008.
They still proceed to lay off 15% of their workforce, and give all the others A BONUS. wtf?
2008 was a good year for many firms, much from carry over work that started in 2007, but the real downturn didn't really fall into place until Q3 2008. Early 2008 I was busy as I've ever been.
That said, there's nothing wrong with a firm having a very good fiscal year and turning to layoffs shortly there after due to lack of work. No firm, big or small, can survive if they keep their largest expense (professional labor) sitting idle. Staffing levels need to match work load, plain and simple. Most firms are in defensive mode and are saving capital and unfortunately cutting perks only go so far. Eventually layoffs have to happen.
As for bonuses, yes, corporate America has asinie contracts with bonus requirements written in. It's absurd that any company should pay out any bonuses when staff is being cut. Not that they should keep idle staff on board with the bonus money either, but that bonus money should be held by firms for more important uses in a downturn like marketing and getting work.
Of course, if the firm had not given bonuses based on all the money made last year, and had chosen to keep staff even though there is no work, someone would be on this forum complaining that they worked their butts off last year, and instead of getting the bonus they deserved, the firm spent the money on keeping their fellow slacker employee sitting at his desk doing nothing.
Of course also, you have to realize that the tax structure is part of it - the bonus becomes an expense for LAST tax year, so the corporation does not have to pay the tax on it (you do as an individual, of course). If they "save" it for future expenses, then they have to pay a portion to the tax man.
So, since you can't save the money, the best thing to do is to reward the employees you're going to keep, buy their loyality.
Actually Gruen, you CAN save the cash, but you do get dinged for the taxes. In our case, we did make money last year, and did give bonuses. But we also "saved" some money to be able to pay people even if we operate at a loss.
The spare money is considered income to the partners, and we had to pay taxes on it. But instead of taking it out of the company and spending it on personal stuff, we left it in the company. So if need be, we can reinvest it and pay people even if we are not breaking even. Then next year if there is a loss, we can at least get some of our tax money back. If there is a miraculous turn around and we don't need it, then we can take it out, maybe send the kids to college, and the taxes have already been paid.
Also, because the whole banking industry is crazy, one of the easiest ways to get money is to not need it. So having lots of cash in the bank let us get a nice line of credit at 0% above prime.
Archie, leave aside the abominable diction and the jaw-shattering jargon, these are people we're talking about here -- they are still getting their lives completely utterly destroyed because of layoffs. Life-changing decisions are being made we are being humiliated. No matter how rosey you paint this fucking thing, it still sucks.
I just got the chilling details on what happened in Alexandria. Yes, they were given bonuses and they were apparently very busy but they signed shady contracts with shady clients, didn't get paid, didn't have acumulate nearly enough fee, cut everyone's pay and then laid of their most skilled staff. They had a massive lay off towards the end of last year and the principals made a promise to everyone that the worse was over and that everyone's job was "safe." So NO ONE saw it coming.
They had around 60 this summer -- Only people left are senior level people (amazing how none of them took responsibility for this fuck up) and a smattering of the lowest paid interns. They are in straight-up survival mode right now from what I hear.
Sorry I offended you med. My point was that there are firms (like mine) who are taking profits from previous years, and instead of taking them out personally, we have paid the personal income tax on the money, but left it in the firm bank accounts, and are willing to pay employees to do nothing rather than lay them off. So I don't think I was humiliating anyone, nor was I painting a rosy picture.
I am not an English major, so perhaps my diction is not perfect, but I have no idea what you mean by jaw-shattering jargon. At least I was not spewing the F word.
And Gruen, yes, we could loan the money back to ourselves with interest if we want to. But then you pay taxes on the interest, so the tax man gets his cut no matter what. Basically, by leaving it in the firm, we are giving the firm an interest free loan from tax planning purposes. Of course if our fiscal year was from September to September, the picture would be looking a lot different than it did last December.
I don't see how that comment would insinuate you being a republican... I came to the same conclusion, you have a very simplistic, if not narrow view on this.
There are many ways a firm can structure their corporation.. and this has mainly to do with how people buy into the company and get paid out when they leave/retire.. and how owners get paid and how they are taxed.
med. - don't you think its time for a career change, I mean seriously? For the past 4 months or so your posts have oscillated between whiney to down right combative. It's pretty clear you do not have the stomach for this profession. If you are looking for stable, secure, and equitable you are in the wrong place. Even when times are "good" for architecture that is the case. One thing I've learned is that you have to make your own opportunities in this profession. If you rely on the corporate nipple too long and don't have a few back-ups going, you will surely be left out in the cold.
There are plenty of mostly recession proof careers out there. Nursing, dental assistant, school teacher, etc. You seem smart enough to get through the training/schooling, after all you made it through arch. school. You may not love it, but then again you probably won't be hating here. Take it for what you will, but my advice: find some happiness somewhere else.
"CAD, if I was interested in your little lectures, I'd ask you."
And I'm sure the others that you've berated feel the same way.
Sure man, its okay to be frustrated. We all are. My point being is that you have to find a positive outlet for that frustration. Berating fellow archinecters, the profession, corporate firm practices, etc. for months on end is getting you nowhere.
One main theme that you keep bringing up in your posts is questioning whether people at the top knew.
Of course they did.
Hell, I saw it coming in April 08, when stuff was starting to dry up and the contractors that we were working with were starting to get antsy looking forward. If you worked in a small firm, the writing has been on the wall since last spring. Most of my school mates in larger firms had no idea, they are so shielded from the financials. Others saw signs but pretended like they weren't there. Many of those folks are unemployed now, or working reduced hours.
In any case, what did you expect? Had all firm owners gone public in July 08 with the lowered expectations for 09 and then again after the financial system collapse in Nov 08, how would that have changed the state we are in today? I don't see how that could change the fact that there is no significant building going on. Non Shady clients, and non shady contracts don't just appear out of thin air because you desire them too.
If you have the choice between no contract or shady contract or no client and shady client, 99% of firms go for the shady. After all a chance of getting paid is better than no chance at all.
Or think of it this way, a few shady contracts in the bag were probably the only thing that kept those folks employed for another couple of months. Now the firm is forced to try and collect (good luck) to recoup the wages already paid out.
med. - it's one thing to be frustrated; it's altogether another thing to demonize all firm owners as incompetent and uncaring boobs.
were the vast majority of design firms not struggling to remain solvent, your views might have some resonance if directed at a specific firm or two. however, under present industry circumstances, your hostility and resentment come across as both infantile and grossly ill informed.
So we pass from the Winter of Discontent to the spring of, what, false hope, or false starts? What may be lost to some of us is that not only are we facing a sever downturn but we are on the brink of a new era a new architecture. Digital and environmental sustainability are the influences that are ripping apart the old guard and making the dogmatic approach to design, theory and the practice and education of architecture of today obsolete. I wonder what we can learn form artist and how they survive and or live.
For me I got a temp job with FedEx and I am working on positioning myself for the tsunami that will be BIM and LEED. I’m surviving but still thinking, discussing and reading, but what I would like to see is the text version of survivor to end, F bombing and accusing people of being simpletons and or Republicans (No offense to the conservatives) is not helping. Let’s think how to strengthen OUR chosen profession instead of criticizing things that we may not be well informed on.
I think it is ok to criticize the decision to award bonuses but I would stop at making assumptions as to the personal motives and character of those decision makers. I respect your opinions and wit but I don’t find the character assignations and infighting informative or entertaining.
Thank your lucky stars that you are a 20/30 something laid off intern and not a 50/60 something principal of a bankrupt firm owing 100's of thousands in defaulted loans,taxes,insurance, rent, etc.
you've got your whole career ahead with 30 years to make it.
they have squat and starting over 10 years from retirement.
Don't believe me, fine, suit yourself. I will tell you that I'm currently doing some freelance drafting for a "semi-retired" architect in his 70's that lost his shit in the 80's recession and never recovered financially.
He was a partner in a firm about the size of the firms you mentioned in Alex, VA. They did work for several public universities, fed government, and private commercial and residential developers. They won national and regional AIA awards. They guy built several custom homes for himself during the good times.
Now? He lives in a retirement home and works on houses, garages, and remodels. Any money he makes is split between dental expenses and health care costs. He doesn't know CAD, I help him out with CDs and permitting. He pays cash.
Cad thats awesome. I swear to God, given enough years, every successful architecture firm big and small, eventualy goes bust. Very very few survive beyond a couple decades. Not trying to scare anyone but thats the way it goes.
cad- given the obvious cyclical nature of this profession I don't feel bad for any high level architect in their 50's/60's that is currently losing their shit. They have been through some very very good times in this profession while at senior levels making incomes that most of the under 40 crowd would only dream of. If they didn't know how to save or invest in the good times, what happens to them in the bad times is not my problem.
What gripes my ass is that these same mid and upper level managers are keeping their jobs thanks to seniority only. The "young architects" are getting slaughtered out there, i.e. registered architects in their 30's & 40's. These are people trying to raise young families, still have decades left on mortgages, etc. A class of people that haven't had enough time to financially establish themselves. This is the generation of architects we are at risk of losing which will be very painful for our profession in another decade.
Sure, some 20-something intern can recover quite easily and has years to do so. It's a different story for someone 10/20 years senior. This shit storm happening mid-career for someone is a truly worst case senario.
aqua - I know a guy I shit you not has the worst story ever. Graduated Illinois ca 1990, got a job, had to sit and wait because the market was tanking. They kept telling him to wait wait wait until finaly it was like a half year and he realised they where BSing him. Spent 2 years looking for a gig. Finally got some work in 03 working for small remodelers. Terrible pay sometimes got stiffed. Decided to leave the architects and work for a builder for 2 years. Got hurt on the job shattered his arm. Then he got a job in house facility manager at a small tech firm. Then tech boom exploded - he got tremendous pay in stock options. Got married had a kid. Put some money down on a house expecting to cash out options the next year when He was allowed. Tech wreck happened and he was wiped out, business went under, and yet again - owed money. Lost his house when his wife to lost her job at the same time. spent about a year looking for work and found an architecture firm to hook up with, doing shit work but finaly took license exam - got it. They actualy didnt boom in the boom years but did ok. A lot of small suburban office park remodels, repairs, roofing - nothing fancy. Again - bought a house out in Kane county development. Not a year later, firm is going belly up. Pay slashed, underwater on mortgage in danger of losing house AGAIN.
Imagine you are 40 and your entire career has been a shit sandwich after shit sandwhich. Your right - if you are 50 60 and made it this far as a principle, god bless. You are a risk taker. As such you must live with the risk and the results. But too often now the mid level people are assuming more and more of the risk of just going to work in the AE profesion. They will eventualy just leave altogether.
I don't ask anybody to feel sorry for me. I've been doing this for more than thirty years, own 30%+ of my firm, have had some good years and some bad years ... this is a bad year and I'm taking a huge pay cut to help get us through this period.
We've had some layoffs, which were very painful, but also probably much later than they should have been. I give our bank my personal guarantee on about $290,000 in company related debt and lines of credit.
The point is, I don't need anybody's pity - nor do I need anybody's scorn. I and my partners run our practice well, we treat our clients ans staff fairly, we do strong work, and we suffer ups and downs just like the rest of the profession.
Personally, I think our firm is pretty typical. We've survived over 20 years and we're moving into our second generation of owners ... we will survive this because we're doing what we have to do ... but. it's not a lot of fun right now.
Layoffs....layoffs......
being a "sole proprietor" has nothing at all to do with holding a license ... anybody can start a business as a sole proprietor ...
however, your state board will want to have something to say about if if you hang out a shingle saying you're an architect if you haven't passed the ARE.
comb - I understand that, I'm just wondering if there is a license requirement.
In addition, does getting a FEIN change your filing status form self employed? Do you need to get a DBA from your county, business checking account, legal consultation, e&o insurance, etc?
you can be a sole prop. but not an architect. you can call yourself a home designer, etc.
btw: now is a good time to do your ARE exams, if you've got extra time due to the down economy.
gruen - have my CD+S exam tonight.
damn, I thought that this thread died...
In most cases you will need to register with your respective state, town or county to do consulting work as a designer, Architect, etcetera. The interesting story about the guy in Seattle using the farmer's market stall to drum up freelance business is where this interest in this stuff comes from. Many farmers’ markets are run by local governments or government agencies and may require state and federal business tax registrations / filings to get a booth even though you are not selling anything tangible. It is just something to think about, cost is minimal and it could save you money and hassle someday. EID and state business tax registration are just standard things needed to fill out an online application to get a booth at my local farmer’s market.
Good luck to all the freelancers out there.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102322588
Shammrock, NYC is a black hole as far as the job market is concerned.
Apurimac - thanks for your insight. i kind of expected that response. nyc has enough to deal with (ie wall street). good to know that the wtc/freedom tower is pushing forward.
Actually sham only the freedom tower is actively moving forward at this point, the other four towers are all in a holding pattern due to financing issues.
California is more aggressive than most in policing what house designers call themselves. Anything with the letters arch- is a no-no unless licensed.
Calling yourself a house designer can also be a problem if you are offering a service normally provided by an architect or engineer. Many cities and towns in California allow work in accordance with Type V sheets, explanations of what work can be done without a professional if it is in strict accord with proscribed requirements. If you go beyond these requirements, a license is required. the bottom line is to be careful in how you represent yourself and what you offer. It is very easy to cross the threshold in licensed individual country. Hope this helps.
In other states the requirements are less restrictive. Many states allow you to do houses and interior remodels without a license. Check first.
It has been pretty quiet here in the last few days. Is that a good sign or did all the regulars get laid off. Havent heard anything through the grape vine either. Anyone else?
meltdown in roanoke, VA recently... 20 laid off is the rumor.
Maybe we hit bottom
Like Baby Jessica in a well, we can only go up from here!
Haven't heard anything. Outside the article in the Washington Post that others have commented on in a different thread. I figure that if anything is going to happen that this would be the week since it is the end of the month and the end of the 1st Qtr. Hopefully, things will slow down on that front. At least for a little while...
Tidalwave, you've just made me look really forward to friday....
I haven't heard of any big new projects at any of the local firms around me. We won't bottom out until you start hearing of new "big" projects being landed instead of the little scraps most firms are living off right now. Talking amongst friends we still think firms around here have room to let another 50% of their staff go.
SmithGroup - just laid off people today (bout an hour ago). Third round for them.
agreed aquapura - until we start hearing of people landing big projects, there will be third, fourth, and fifth rounds of layoffs...
+1 -- is that our April Fools Day joke? if they really did that then that's harsh. my old place let go of at least another 3 yesterday and there was another firm in Alexandria that had layoffs yesterday as well...
Tidal, which firm in Alexandria?
wait till you guys hear this:
A acronym firm based near DC, and with offices all over the country and some around the world made the highest amount of money they have EVER MADE in 2008.
They still proceed to lay off 15% of their workforce, and give all the others A BONUS. wtf?
Kids, do everyone a favor and not work at these kinds of places please!
med - one of the two based in the ATL. the better one.
not a joke. it was an actual layoff.
sameold- and yes, the acronym firms all do that. bonuses are appropriated from budgets from the prior year's profitability. RTKL did it as well. RTKL is owned by Arcadis, who is owned by Arcadis and publicly traded on the Euronext. Their fiscal "year" ended in February, 2008 was best year ever, and employees received bonuses in March along with investors receiving dividends. 20% of the firm was laid off one week before bonuses.
This is the way of corporate America.
There's cooper and there's niles. Depends on which one you think is better....
Nevertheless, I didn't hear any news...
Ugh. Never mind. I just heard the news... :(
from my former ATL perspective the former is definitely better than the latter... ;-)
They still proceed to lay off 15% of their workforce, and give all the others A BONUS. wtf?
2008 was a good year for many firms, much from carry over work that started in 2007, but the real downturn didn't really fall into place until Q3 2008. Early 2008 I was busy as I've ever been.
That said, there's nothing wrong with a firm having a very good fiscal year and turning to layoffs shortly there after due to lack of work. No firm, big or small, can survive if they keep their largest expense (professional labor) sitting idle. Staffing levels need to match work load, plain and simple. Most firms are in defensive mode and are saving capital and unfortunately cutting perks only go so far. Eventually layoffs have to happen.
As for bonuses, yes, corporate America has asinie contracts with bonus requirements written in. It's absurd that any company should pay out any bonuses when staff is being cut. Not that they should keep idle staff on board with the bonus money either, but that bonus money should be held by firms for more important uses in a downturn like marketing and getting work.
Of course, if the firm had not given bonuses based on all the money made last year, and had chosen to keep staff even though there is no work, someone would be on this forum complaining that they worked their butts off last year, and instead of getting the bonus they deserved, the firm spent the money on keeping their fellow slacker employee sitting at his desk doing nothing.
- exactly!
Very true.
Of course also, you have to realize that the tax structure is part of it - the bonus becomes an expense for LAST tax year, so the corporation does not have to pay the tax on it (you do as an individual, of course). If they "save" it for future expenses, then they have to pay a portion to the tax man.
So, since you can't save the money, the best thing to do is to reward the employees you're going to keep, buy their loyality.
Yeah, it's backwards, and probably, wrong.
* spins thumbs
Actually Gruen, you CAN save the cash, but you do get dinged for the taxes. In our case, we did make money last year, and did give bonuses. But we also "saved" some money to be able to pay people even if we operate at a loss.
The spare money is considered income to the partners, and we had to pay taxes on it. But instead of taking it out of the company and spending it on personal stuff, we left it in the company. So if need be, we can reinvest it and pay people even if we are not breaking even. Then next year if there is a loss, we can at least get some of our tax money back. If there is a miraculous turn around and we don't need it, then we can take it out, maybe send the kids to college, and the taxes have already been paid.
Also, because the whole banking industry is crazy, one of the easiest ways to get money is to not need it. So having lots of cash in the bank let us get a nice line of credit at 0% above prime.
Isn't that what I said? That if you save it, you have to pay taxes on it? At least, that's what I meant.
A question though Archie, can you pay yourself the money, and loan it back with interest? And, would that make sense?
Archie, leave aside the abominable diction and the jaw-shattering jargon, these are people we're talking about here -- they are still getting their lives completely utterly destroyed because of layoffs. Life-changing decisions are being made we are being humiliated. No matter how rosey you paint this fucking thing, it still sucks.
I just got the chilling details on what happened in Alexandria. Yes, they were given bonuses and they were apparently very busy but they signed shady contracts with shady clients, didn't get paid, didn't have acumulate nearly enough fee, cut everyone's pay and then laid of their most skilled staff. They had a massive lay off towards the end of last year and the principals made a promise to everyone that the worse was over and that everyone's job was "safe." So NO ONE saw it coming.
They had around 60 this summer -- Only people left are senior level people (amazing how none of them took responsibility for this fuck up) and a smattering of the lowest paid interns. They are in straight-up survival mode right now from what I hear.
med. - you have such a fucking simplistic view of the world
Sorry I offended you med. My point was that there are firms (like mine) who are taking profits from previous years, and instead of taking them out personally, we have paid the personal income tax on the money, but left it in the firm bank accounts, and are willing to pay employees to do nothing rather than lay them off. So I don't think I was humiliating anyone, nor was I painting a rosy picture.
I am not an English major, so perhaps my diction is not perfect, but I have no idea what you mean by jaw-shattering jargon. At least I was not spewing the F word.
And Gruen, yes, we could loan the money back to ourselves with interest if we want to. But then you pay taxes on the interest, so the tax man gets his cut no matter what. Basically, by leaving it in the firm, we are giving the firm an interest free loan from tax planning purposes. Of course if our fiscal year was from September to September, the picture would be looking a lot different than it did last December.
File, I'm not a republican. If that's what you're insinuating.
File, I'm not a republican. If that's what you're insinuating.
I don't see how that comment would insinuate you being a republican... I came to the same conclusion, you have a very simplistic, if not narrow view on this.
There are many ways a firm can structure their corporation.. and this has mainly to do with how people buy into the company and get paid out when they leave/retire.. and how owners get paid and how they are taxed.
med. - don't you think its time for a career change, I mean seriously? For the past 4 months or so your posts have oscillated between whiney to down right combative. It's pretty clear you do not have the stomach for this profession. If you are looking for stable, secure, and equitable you are in the wrong place. Even when times are "good" for architecture that is the case. One thing I've learned is that you have to make your own opportunities in this profession. If you rely on the corporate nipple too long and don't have a few back-ups going, you will surely be left out in the cold.
There are plenty of mostly recession proof careers out there. Nursing, dental assistant, school teacher, etc. You seem smart enough to get through the training/schooling, after all you made it through arch. school. You may not love it, but then again you probably won't be hating here. Take it for what you will, but my advice: find some happiness somewhere else.
I don't get it, is not okay to be frustrated by all this?
As much as I've tried, there just isn't any possitive spin I could put on this thing.
CAD, if I was interested in your little lectures, I'd ask you.
"CAD, if I was interested in your little lectures, I'd ask you."
And I'm sure the others that you've berated feel the same way.
Sure man, its okay to be frustrated. We all are. My point being is that you have to find a positive outlet for that frustration. Berating fellow archinecters, the profession, corporate firm practices, etc. for months on end is getting you nowhere.
One main theme that you keep bringing up in your posts is questioning whether people at the top knew.
Of course they did.
Hell, I saw it coming in April 08, when stuff was starting to dry up and the contractors that we were working with were starting to get antsy looking forward. If you worked in a small firm, the writing has been on the wall since last spring. Most of my school mates in larger firms had no idea, they are so shielded from the financials. Others saw signs but pretended like they weren't there. Many of those folks are unemployed now, or working reduced hours.
In any case, what did you expect? Had all firm owners gone public in July 08 with the lowered expectations for 09 and then again after the financial system collapse in Nov 08, how would that have changed the state we are in today? I don't see how that could change the fact that there is no significant building going on. Non Shady clients, and non shady contracts don't just appear out of thin air because you desire them too.
If you have the choice between no contract or shady contract or no client and shady client, 99% of firms go for the shady. After all a chance of getting paid is better than no chance at all.
Or think of it this way, a few shady contracts in the bag were probably the only thing that kept those folks employed for another couple of months. Now the firm is forced to try and collect (good luck) to recoup the wages already paid out.
med. - it's one thing to be frustrated; it's altogether another thing to demonize all firm owners as incompetent and uncaring boobs.
were the vast majority of design firms not struggling to remain solvent, your views might have some resonance if directed at a specific firm or two. however, under present industry circumstances, your hostility and resentment come across as both infantile and grossly ill informed.
So we pass from the Winter of Discontent to the spring of, what, false hope, or false starts? What may be lost to some of us is that not only are we facing a sever downturn but we are on the brink of a new era a new architecture. Digital and environmental sustainability are the influences that are ripping apart the old guard and making the dogmatic approach to design, theory and the practice and education of architecture of today obsolete. I wonder what we can learn form artist and how they survive and or live.
For me I got a temp job with FedEx and I am working on positioning myself for the tsunami that will be BIM and LEED. I’m surviving but still thinking, discussing and reading, but what I would like to see is the text version of survivor to end, F bombing and accusing people of being simpletons and or Republicans (No offense to the conservatives) is not helping. Let’s think how to strengthen OUR chosen profession instead of criticizing things that we may not be well informed on.
I think it is ok to criticize the decision to award bonuses but I would stop at making assumptions as to the personal motives and character of those decision makers. I respect your opinions and wit but I don’t find the character assignations and infighting informative or entertaining.
look at it this way med.
Thank your lucky stars that you are a 20/30 something laid off intern and not a 50/60 something principal of a bankrupt firm owing 100's of thousands in defaulted loans,taxes,insurance, rent, etc.
you've got your whole career ahead with 30 years to make it.
they have squat and starting over 10 years from retirement.
Don't believe me, fine, suit yourself. I will tell you that I'm currently doing some freelance drafting for a "semi-retired" architect in his 70's that lost his shit in the 80's recession and never recovered financially.
He was a partner in a firm about the size of the firms you mentioned in Alex, VA. They did work for several public universities, fed government, and private commercial and residential developers. They won national and regional AIA awards. They guy built several custom homes for himself during the good times.
Now? He lives in a retirement home and works on houses, garages, and remodels. Any money he makes is split between dental expenses and health care costs. He doesn't know CAD, I help him out with CDs and permitting. He pays cash.
Cad thats awesome. I swear to God, given enough years, every successful architecture firm big and small, eventualy goes bust. Very very few survive beyond a couple decades. Not trying to scare anyone but thats the way it goes.
cad- given the obvious cyclical nature of this profession I don't feel bad for any high level architect in their 50's/60's that is currently losing their shit. They have been through some very very good times in this profession while at senior levels making incomes that most of the under 40 crowd would only dream of. If they didn't know how to save or invest in the good times, what happens to them in the bad times is not my problem.
What gripes my ass is that these same mid and upper level managers are keeping their jobs thanks to seniority only. The "young architects" are getting slaughtered out there, i.e. registered architects in their 30's & 40's. These are people trying to raise young families, still have decades left on mortgages, etc. A class of people that haven't had enough time to financially establish themselves. This is the generation of architects we are at risk of losing which will be very painful for our profession in another decade.
Sure, some 20-something intern can recover quite easily and has years to do so. It's a different story for someone 10/20 years senior. This shit storm happening mid-career for someone is a truly worst case senario.
aqua - I know a guy I shit you not has the worst story ever. Graduated Illinois ca 1990, got a job, had to sit and wait because the market was tanking. They kept telling him to wait wait wait until finaly it was like a half year and he realised they where BSing him. Spent 2 years looking for a gig. Finally got some work in 03 working for small remodelers. Terrible pay sometimes got stiffed. Decided to leave the architects and work for a builder for 2 years. Got hurt on the job shattered his arm. Then he got a job in house facility manager at a small tech firm. Then tech boom exploded - he got tremendous pay in stock options. Got married had a kid. Put some money down on a house expecting to cash out options the next year when He was allowed. Tech wreck happened and he was wiped out, business went under, and yet again - owed money. Lost his house when his wife to lost her job at the same time. spent about a year looking for work and found an architecture firm to hook up with, doing shit work but finaly took license exam - got it. They actualy didnt boom in the boom years but did ok. A lot of small suburban office park remodels, repairs, roofing - nothing fancy. Again - bought a house out in Kane county development. Not a year later, firm is going belly up. Pay slashed, underwater on mortgage in danger of losing house AGAIN.
Imagine you are 40 and your entire career has been a shit sandwich after shit sandwhich. Your right - if you are 50 60 and made it this far as a principle, god bless. You are a risk taker. As such you must live with the risk and the results. But too often now the mid level people are assuming more and more of the risk of just going to work in the AE profesion. They will eventualy just leave altogether.
as they say "if you can't stand the heat .... "
I don't ask anybody to feel sorry for me. I've been doing this for more than thirty years, own 30%+ of my firm, have had some good years and some bad years ... this is a bad year and I'm taking a huge pay cut to help get us through this period.
We've had some layoffs, which were very painful, but also probably much later than they should have been. I give our bank my personal guarantee on about $290,000 in company related debt and lines of credit.
The point is, I don't need anybody's pity - nor do I need anybody's scorn. I and my partners run our practice well, we treat our clients ans staff fairly, we do strong work, and we suffer ups and downs just like the rest of the profession.
Personally, I think our firm is pretty typical. We've survived over 20 years and we're moving into our second generation of owners ... we will survive this because we're doing what we have to do ... but. it's not a lot of fun right now.
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