talk about defacto pay cut - here in uk i was offered + took a very nice teaching job -well the salary £=$ 2008 == abpout $100k so now! $75 - i am not complaining just £ to $ sucks when you have a mortgage in $
Yeah talk about a complete change in the economy last year I was working on a schematic design proposal for a $250 million + project, now I'm fighting to do a $250K interior reno project.
Alot of the architects in our office are doing building reports or assessments for roof replacements or Handi-cap code upgrades.
Not a lot of substantial work out there, all piecemeal 2 weeks here, 2 weeks there kind of work. ( better than nothing I guess)
When proposals do come up, dozens of firms are showing interest
in the RFP's. with firms being shortlist to 6 or 7 firms.
Definately nothing to inspire one to go out and buy a car, or make a big purchase out there right now.
The number of firms chasing RFPs has grown enormously. A short time ago many firms acted as if some of this work never existed. Now, so many are experts in increasingly arcane special project types. Reminds me of the repair facility for CNG buses we submitted on several years ago. Spent two weeks learning any and all nuances of the building type, teamed with an MEP firm who had done several, and came in second.
On the personal job front, several recruiters contacted me about the same position. Despite being where I want to go, the money is lower than I know I can get. As a suggestion, get your resume on Cybercoders, Careerbuilders, Ladders.com, and wherever else you can. Contact any and all recruiters in your region. AEROTEK seems to have a national prescence.
bonuses were handed out yesterday. kinda shitty for the people who were just laid off- since we just moved into an amazing new office and received bonus checks just two weeks after layoffs.
anyone slightly inspired by the dow this week? any chance for hope? ... anyone cheering on jon stewart last night against jim cramer?
+i, a lot of firms have done that kind of thing. Instead of giving all that money away in taxes, they figure it's better just to give it out to the employees. Plus, it also serves as a much-needed morale booster for employees who had just survived a mass layoff. I agree it's shitty for the people who were let go but you're definitely at a firm where at least they care.
Our firm recently had a big architectural staff meeting in which they gave us a status update of how we're doing -- they said we're doing relatively well all things considered. We just completed a massive merger with three other firms and the whole idea was to get ourselves acquainted with our new colleagues from our new sister firm.
We also recently had an open house for prospective employees coming out of school. There were tons of people here! The whole idea was to seek out recent college graduates and possibly some summer interns but there were quite a few others here who were recently laid off from other firms in the area.
um... they're all just talking heads- you can add santelli to that as well- the only reason he said anything at all was because his contract was up with CNN and he needed ratings/publicity.
the cramer/steward variety hour is just a more humorous diversion- complete with a drinking game.
if anyone here actually took advice from cramer or anyone else without doing their own research, sucks for you...
We're fortunate in that we have a pretty wide variety of project types with a heavy emphasis on transit, infrastructure, educational, and affordable housing. These project types tend to be more stable than many others, and typically have much longer lead times. I've been told we still have a decent backlog of projects and that the partners are cautiously optimistic about the short-term, but things are more uncertain in the long term. I just hope some of those economic stimulus projects eventually trickle down in our direction.
"All teleprompter reading dip shits."
Obama never leaves home without it!
There is a rumor a national CM firm (or EA firm with specialty in PM/CM) is expanding in California and looking for a small number of experienced architects. This is a firm not here now, at least not with any presence. Solicitations are being made through recruiters.
Public sector work does exist out here and, should our Democrat-controlled legislature prevail in enacting further taxes (they call call revenue enhancement - 1984, anyone) there will be a good number of projects in the pipeline for those of us remaining.
Starting April 1 sales tax will be up to 10.25% in some parts of the state. The car tax is almost doubling. Personal income taxes will be increasing. Business costs continue to rise. Public employees are the highest paid in the nation.
The cajone-less Republicans went along with the Dems in voting for the budget. Being a Republican in California doesn't mean anything any more.
We have a net outflow of taxpayers! I'm almost out the door too.
"the only thing worse than a californian is a republican californian.
Man...and I was really liking some of your postings..."
Cad, I hope you're kidding, right?
Rather than adjusting your positive opinion of someone downward when you discover a political affiliation you don't care for, wouldn't it be better to reconsider your broadbrush prejudice about an entire group, since you're now acquainted with a member whose posts you agree with?
Isn't that what we should be doing instead? Reconsider the stereotype, not uphold it even in face of contravening evidence?
Had a girlfriend from Minot once.
Saw Fargo..the movie, that is.
Have a friend in Montana. Teaches music, of all things.
Another (ex-hippie) rode his VW minivan through there in 1972. Was afraid to stop.
Starting salaries for Associates at top-flight law firms are $145-160K.
This is for the best of the best from Harvard, etc.
What do architects get? Beside peanuts?
Do the best go into architecture or do we allow in too many underachievers who drag down salaries?
We graduate almost anyone who ponies up the tuition.
Assuming there were 40% less graduates each year, where would salaries be? Producing drawings for a building is demanding and tedious. Can this still be accomplished?
We shoot ourselves in the foot each year and dig a deeper and deeper grave. The only way to make a buck in this profession is go it alone or rise to principal of a decent sized firm.
martini+1 - I don't know what program you went to, but where I went they did not just graduate anyone who paid the tuition. My class was unique amongst the school's history we graduated 40% of the students who entered. The normal classes were more like 25% of the entry numbers. In addition, we had harder grading requirements and more distribution requirements than any other program at the university. I think blaming the education is the wrong place to start.
AIA should be pushing firms to pay living wages and anyone without a license should be paid hourly and overtime, in other words, firms should be held to federal labor standards. In addition, the AIA should act as a real professional organization and help establish a higher baseline for fees. No other profession gets so little and can be liable for so much. This would raise the bar of this profession.
s. selphane - by graduating entry numbers are you talking about the application group before selective admission? For my BArch program there were over 300 applicants but only 60 spots. Of the 60 accepted, only 40 of us graduated. The 20 that didn't had long ago switched majors, etc. Nobody "failed" out for not having a good studio project, etc.
Since I graduated my University has seen such a rise in applications to the Architecture college that they forced the college to expand and accept more people...further diluting the future talent pool.
As I have said time and time again, we need about 1/2 as many accredited architecture colleges in the USA as we currently have. Yes, many no talent ass clowns are graduating with arch degrees. I'm confident those people are weeded out in the working world, but in now way are enough architects retiring each year to make up for the influx of new grads. Universities are flooding the market all because they are all too happy to accept some more tuition cash and in no way working with the real world employers to match the need for more architects.
The one positive about this downturn is that it will probably cull a lot of architects from the profession. We need a lot less people and the sooner we shed those people the better off we'll all be.
aqua and selo - this argument has been hashed out so many times before that it's hard to figure out how to respond.
selo - how do you propose to define 'living wages'? is it pegged to the starting salaries of other professions? what about all those lawyers who don't go to harvard? also, are you willing to put in the hours a top flight newbie lawyer puts in? it's not 8-5 each day, let me promise you. those people are doing 3000+ hours a year.
selo - if we cut the numbers of people who are 'architects', how does that solve our problem? by making us more 'rare' and therefore more valuable? i can easily see the opposite happening: architects try to raise their fees and end up getting their professional legs cut out from underneath them through the various state practice acts.
raising our standards and salaries will only come from doing a better level of work, taking on more risk in the project equation, and becoming the actual stewards of the client's money. so long as we're perceived as the window dressers and style guys alone, we're going to be relegated to second class citizens at the table. expand our services and definition of 'architecture' and we'll do ok. keep it confined to who has the coolest window detail and we're doomed.
i actually don't agree that the untalented are weeded out. when i look at my graduating class, only some of the top students are working the profession...quite a few have left out of frustration. almost ALL of the unmotivated and untalented graduates are working in offices. they may be producing costcos, but in the profession they remain.
aqua - we had 110 in my starting year and graduated 45, most years start with 80 and graduate 20-30. I have no idea how many applicants were denied. Also, the economics of most private universities is that they loose money per pupil they take in. If they wanted pure profit they would close all classes except their business schools (and in today's world their donations are iffy) and hit up alumni and corporations for donations - thats where the real money is.
Outed - Living wages is should be defined as not having unpaid internships or jobs. In addition, as I mentioned architects offices should be held to the federal guidelines for what's a salary-able position and what must be hourly and paid overtime.
Outed - I don't think we should cut our numbers, thats aqua's m.o. Instead I agree we need to raise the quality of our work, but maybe my vision is tainted. None of my post-grad work has been "picking curtains" and style, almost alll of it has been focusd on either making the client as much money as possible (by coming in under budget and before deadline and with as cheap a construction as possible) or by focusing on building technologies which will make the project viable for years to come.
Its funny, when i graduated I heard so many engineers and others complain about architects and how we have lofty design ideas, but can't build a roof that doesn't leak. In every firm I've worked in water penetration has been one of the areas where we spend the most time. Even if we as a profession eradicate leaks and moisture damage engineers and owners will just complain that we can't "build an airtight building". How can we as a profession raise the bar if we are always going to be looked down at by other building professionals as "designers," especially if we are the ones who carry the most liability for delays, liquidated damages, and life safety? We already have such a huge stake in the project, but most of the other players think of us as the "window dresser." Only through real professional representation by the AIA will we have a chance to raise the profile of our chosen profession.
if we cut the numbers of people who are 'architects', how does that solve our problem?
For one, the problem is Architecture is too cyclical. We over build in the good times and go on a massive hiring binge only to follow-up with massive layoffs when things turn south. Currently the "oversupply" is getting laid off. Not the "architects" fault exactly, but we feel the pain.
Any reductions in our numbers to make Architect "rare" needs to coincide with strong legislation that protects our careers. Engineers or other professionals simply should not be legally allowed to design buildings. The AIA is far too weak of a lobbying body.
As for reducing our numbers I like to point out that most Pharm D graduates start at $75-100k for going to college a similar amount of time as any MArch grad. State legislation is quite strong stating that any prescription drug must be administered by a licensed pharmicist. So...to staff every Walgreens and CVS there are only 65 total pharmacy colleges in the country (both accredited and unaccredited). High demand and short supply equals good salaries.
I agree with outed in that as a profession we need to reassume liability for our work and stop pushing everything off to specialized consultants and regain market share. More architects are needed in "non-traditional" roles, ie. forensics, RE development, infrastructure, policy, etc.
Schools are behind on this. Most graduates don't even know about possibilities in these fields until years after graduation. Academics are overly preoccupied with eye candy and discussing the esoteric movements in design.
Of course we need exposure to this, but it needs to be more balanced. In general, I feel the current M.Arch system is basically a glorified MFA.
M.Arch's should be more specialized like MBA or JD programs and focus on certain building typologies, management, or technologies.
If this were to happen, I think firms would be more apt to see new hires as more than cad monkey or 3d render bitch. In turn the contruction industry in general would have more respect and reliance on the profession.
Meanwhile there are 73 AIG bigwigs getting over a million each in bonuses with our tax dollars. Really? You would think that they should all resign after their own stupidity and utter incompetence drove AIG into the ground.
We've already known what an absolute horseshit organization AIG is full of criminals scoundrels after they started going around paying millions of dollars in spa treatments after we bailed them out.
Where did this recent crop of Wall Street scum go to Business school? That is were there should be reforms. Any professor, dean, or other academic who was around when they were being taught how to screw up the economy should get the boot for failing to teach ethics and common sense effectively.
Ok, guys, here are two cents from a registered architect who has been in the business for 24 years...and survived many recessions without ever getting laid off. Except I got fired once, but that's another story!
First of all, architecture is a BUSINESS. C'mon you all, do you really think that this downturn is some kind of vast conspiracy by architecture firms to hold down underpaid interns? Look at your neighbors. Look at the paper. EVERYONE is getting laid off. This bad economy is not a phenomenon that is confined to the practice of architecture. I have seen regional recessions this bad (Houston in the mid 1980's, the Northeast in the early 90's), but never one that impacted the whole country like this one. In previous recessions, if you got laid off and things were dead in your town, you could move to another state and find work. That's not the case right now.
And no, we will not get "smarter" and not overbuild when things improve. The cyclical nature of architecture is not a disease to be cured, it is the way the whole system functions. When opportunities improve, you get more work, and you grow. What are you going to do, turn down the $100 million design project because you think your city is overbuilt? No. When things slow down, you do your best to ride it out with the team you have. But when there's not enough money coming in to pay your staff, how do you keep them? You can't. You either have to cut salaries (including your own), or staff or both. Those are the cold hard facts.
We all go into architecture for the glamor and the chance to design, but at the end of the day it is a business like any other business and your company has to make money to survive. So how do you survive the layoffs? There's no sure-fire answer, and sometimes really good people get laid off, but for the most part...the best people don't. You have to be stronger than average and adapt to survive, just like Darwin says. That means learning the skills that the firm needs, being ACCURATE and FAST, and treating your assignments with the same care as if you were working for yourself.
OK, the sermon is over now. Here is my hot tip. I was distressed to read that some firms are escorting people out the door and not letting them even collect their personal belongings. That is really, really shoddy.
First of all, from the AIA Code of Ethics, Rule 5.203: "Members shall not unreasonably withhold permission from departing employees to take copies of designs, data, reports, notes, or other materials relating to work performed by the employees in the members' service which are not confidential." If your firm tries to deny you copies of the projects you worked on, you can send them a letter gently reminding them of the above.
Note that the rule did not mention photographs. The AIA has ruled that photographs MAY be withheld.
So what is my hot piece of advice? Go buy yourself a thumb drive, BEFORE the layoff ax hits you. And if you don't have access to the firm's marketing drive where the photos are kept, cultivate a friendship with someone who does.
Layoffs....layoffs......
other signs your office is heading for trouble -
you get a new team-member at an odd point in the project - especially if your new team-member is another senior person.
and if your office is top-heavy - meaning, you have less interns and/or jobs than the number of principals.
talk about defacto pay cut - here in uk i was offered + took a very nice teaching job -well the salary £=$ 2008 == abpout $100k so now! $75 - i am not complaining just £ to $ sucks when you have a mortgage in $
Yeah talk about a complete change in the economy last year I was working on a schematic design proposal for a $250 million + project, now I'm fighting to do a $250K interior reno project.
Alot of the architects in our office are doing building reports or assessments for roof replacements or Handi-cap code upgrades.
Not a lot of substantial work out there, all piecemeal 2 weeks here, 2 weeks there kind of work. ( better than nothing I guess)
When proposals do come up, dozens of firms are showing interest
in the RFP's. with firms being shortlist to 6 or 7 firms.
Definately nothing to inspire one to go out and buy a car, or make a big purchase out there right now.
will iterate brushman's dozens of firms showing interesting in the RFPs.
yesm dozens. it's getting wierd.
This might be of interest. Hopefully, not too provocative.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5iSKVsZmQbNX7M3a0_pIOlbfd6sIg
The number of firms chasing RFPs has grown enormously. A short time ago many firms acted as if some of this work never existed. Now, so many are experts in increasingly arcane special project types. Reminds me of the repair facility for CNG buses we submitted on several years ago. Spent two weeks learning any and all nuances of the building type, teamed with an MEP firm who had done several, and came in second.
On the personal job front, several recruiters contacted me about the same position. Despite being where I want to go, the money is lower than I know I can get. As a suggestion, get your resume on Cybercoders, Careerbuilders, Ladders.com, and wherever else you can. Contact any and all recruiters in your region. AEROTEK seems to have a national prescence.
bonuses were handed out yesterday. kinda shitty for the people who were just laid off- since we just moved into an amazing new office and received bonus checks just two weeks after layoffs.
anyone slightly inspired by the dow this week? any chance for hope? ... anyone cheering on jon stewart last night against jim cramer?
+i, a lot of firms have done that kind of thing. Instead of giving all that money away in taxes, they figure it's better just to give it out to the employees. Plus, it also serves as a much-needed morale booster for employees who had just survived a mass layoff. I agree it's shitty for the people who were let go but you're definitely at a firm where at least they care.
Our firm recently had a big architectural staff meeting in which they gave us a status update of how we're doing -- they said we're doing relatively well all things considered. We just completed a massive merger with three other firms and the whole idea was to get ourselves acquainted with our new colleagues from our new sister firm.
We also recently had an open house for prospective employees coming out of school. There were tons of people here! The whole idea was to seek out recent college graduates and possibly some summer interns but there were quite a few others here who were recently laid off from other firms in the area.
are you at gensler, archmed?
Ive made quite a bit in the last 3 days - as for cramer and stewart their both fucking idiots
Give me Santelli anyday
Nah, not at Gensler. But we have a lot of former Genslerites here as a part of a new-ish Interiors division.
Couldn't have said it better. Add Hannity, Olbermann, O'Riley, et. al to that list. All teleprompter reading dip shits.
um... they're all just talking heads- you can add santelli to that as well- the only reason he said anything at all was because his contract was up with CNN and he needed ratings/publicity.
the cramer/steward variety hour is just a more humorous diversion- complete with a drinking game.
if anyone here actually took advice from cramer or anyone else without doing their own research, sucks for you...
*stewart
Cramer did pump a stock last summer that I happened to own. Gave me a good unanticipated time to exit at a healthy profit. Guess I owe him something.
Well, my 70-person firm just laid off two admin people and an architect this week.
LIG, you guys must be doing pretty well!
We're fortunate in that we have a pretty wide variety of project types with a heavy emphasis on transit, infrastructure, educational, and affordable housing. These project types tend to be more stable than many others, and typically have much longer lead times. I've been told we still have a decent backlog of projects and that the partners are cautiously optimistic about the short-term, but things are more uncertain in the long term. I just hope some of those economic stimulus projects eventually trickle down in our direction.
"All teleprompter reading dip shits."
Obama never leaves home without it!
There is a rumor a national CM firm (or EA firm with specialty in PM/CM) is expanding in California and looking for a small number of experienced architects. This is a firm not here now, at least not with any presence. Solicitations are being made through recruiters.
Public sector work does exist out here and, should our Democrat-controlled legislature prevail in enacting further taxes (they call call revenue enhancement - 1984, anyone) there will be a good number of projects in the pipeline for those of us remaining.
Remember, "As California goes..."
the only thing worse than a californian is a republican californian.
Man...and I was really liking some of your postings...
cc
hey! non-republican californians here resent that comment ;-P
Starting April 1 sales tax will be up to 10.25% in some parts of the state. The car tax is almost doubling. Personal income taxes will be increasing. Business costs continue to rise. Public employees are the highest paid in the nation.
The cajone-less Republicans went along with the Dems in voting for the budget. Being a Republican in California doesn't mean anything any more.
We have a net outflow of taxpayers! I'm almost out the door too.
Martini - don't forget that if CA owes you a refund on your 2008 taxes you'll be getting an IOU instead of cash. Nice.
Man...and I was really liking some of your postings..."
Cad, I hope you're kidding, right?
Rather than adjusting your positive opinion of someone downward when you discover a political affiliation you don't care for, wouldn't it be better to reconsider your broadbrush prejudice about an entire group, since you're now acquainted with a member whose posts you agree with?
Isn't that what we should be doing instead? Reconsider the stereotype, not uphold it even in face of contravening evidence?
If you were kidding... nevermind!
It was in jest Citizen.
Its the Arizona republicans that I really can not stand.
The catch: You must be willing to relocate.
have you ever been to Minot, North Dakota ?
Touche', mon Croupier!
LIG is there any relocation compensation being offered?
LIG is there any relocation compensation being offered?
Did you actually bother to click on the link?
minot north dakota aka mindrot north dakota....
The state tree in North Dakota is a telephone pole.
LIG, nope I'm an idiot sometimes. I didn't even realize that it was a link.
they built it and no one came
maybe they should consider Michigan lots of cheap property to be had.
Had a girlfriend from Minot once.
Saw Fargo..the movie, that is.
Have a friend in Montana. Teaches music, of all things.
Another (ex-hippie) rode his VW minivan through there in 1972. Was afraid to stop.
That's the closest I ever got.
i was actually born in minot, north dakota. seriously. dad was in the military. we moved when i was 2.
all i know is that in the winter it snows so much you sled down the roof of your house. seriously.
Starting salaries for Associates at top-flight law firms are $145-160K.
This is for the best of the best from Harvard, etc.
What do architects get? Beside peanuts?
Do the best go into architecture or do we allow in too many underachievers who drag down salaries?
We graduate almost anyone who ponies up the tuition.
Assuming there were 40% less graduates each year, where would salaries be? Producing drawings for a building is demanding and tedious. Can this still be accomplished?
We shoot ourselves in the foot each year and dig a deeper and deeper grave. The only way to make a buck in this profession is go it alone or rise to principal of a decent sized firm.
martini+1 - I don't know what program you went to, but where I went they did not just graduate anyone who paid the tuition. My class was unique amongst the school's history we graduated 40% of the students who entered. The normal classes were more like 25% of the entry numbers. In addition, we had harder grading requirements and more distribution requirements than any other program at the university. I think blaming the education is the wrong place to start.
AIA should be pushing firms to pay living wages and anyone without a license should be paid hourly and overtime, in other words, firms should be held to federal labor standards. In addition, the AIA should act as a real professional organization and help establish a higher baseline for fees. No other profession gets so little and can be liable for so much. This would raise the bar of this profession.
s. selphane - by graduating entry numbers are you talking about the application group before selective admission? For my BArch program there were over 300 applicants but only 60 spots. Of the 60 accepted, only 40 of us graduated. The 20 that didn't had long ago switched majors, etc. Nobody "failed" out for not having a good studio project, etc.
Since I graduated my University has seen such a rise in applications to the Architecture college that they forced the college to expand and accept more people...further diluting the future talent pool.
As I have said time and time again, we need about 1/2 as many accredited architecture colleges in the USA as we currently have. Yes, many no talent ass clowns are graduating with arch degrees. I'm confident those people are weeded out in the working world, but in now way are enough architects retiring each year to make up for the influx of new grads. Universities are flooding the market all because they are all too happy to accept some more tuition cash and in no way working with the real world employers to match the need for more architects.
The one positive about this downturn is that it will probably cull a lot of architects from the profession. We need a lot less people and the sooner we shed those people the better off we'll all be.
aqua and selo - this argument has been hashed out so many times before that it's hard to figure out how to respond.
selo - how do you propose to define 'living wages'? is it pegged to the starting salaries of other professions? what about all those lawyers who don't go to harvard? also, are you willing to put in the hours a top flight newbie lawyer puts in? it's not 8-5 each day, let me promise you. those people are doing 3000+ hours a year.
selo - if we cut the numbers of people who are 'architects', how does that solve our problem? by making us more 'rare' and therefore more valuable? i can easily see the opposite happening: architects try to raise their fees and end up getting their professional legs cut out from underneath them through the various state practice acts.
raising our standards and salaries will only come from doing a better level of work, taking on more risk in the project equation, and becoming the actual stewards of the client's money. so long as we're perceived as the window dressers and style guys alone, we're going to be relegated to second class citizens at the table. expand our services and definition of 'architecture' and we'll do ok. keep it confined to who has the coolest window detail and we're doomed.
i actually don't agree that the untalented are weeded out. when i look at my graduating class, only some of the top students are working the profession...quite a few have left out of frustration. almost ALL of the unmotivated and untalented graduates are working in offices. they may be producing costcos, but in the profession they remain.
aqua - we had 110 in my starting year and graduated 45, most years start with 80 and graduate 20-30. I have no idea how many applicants were denied. Also, the economics of most private universities is that they loose money per pupil they take in. If they wanted pure profit they would close all classes except their business schools (and in today's world their donations are iffy) and hit up alumni and corporations for donations - thats where the real money is.
Outed - Living wages is should be defined as not having unpaid internships or jobs. In addition, as I mentioned architects offices should be held to the federal guidelines for what's a salary-able position and what must be hourly and paid overtime.
Outed - I don't think we should cut our numbers, thats aqua's m.o. Instead I agree we need to raise the quality of our work, but maybe my vision is tainted. None of my post-grad work has been "picking curtains" and style, almost alll of it has been focusd on either making the client as much money as possible (by coming in under budget and before deadline and with as cheap a construction as possible) or by focusing on building technologies which will make the project viable for years to come.
Its funny, when i graduated I heard so many engineers and others complain about architects and how we have lofty design ideas, but can't build a roof that doesn't leak. In every firm I've worked in water penetration has been one of the areas where we spend the most time. Even if we as a profession eradicate leaks and moisture damage engineers and owners will just complain that we can't "build an airtight building". How can we as a profession raise the bar if we are always going to be looked down at by other building professionals as "designers," especially if we are the ones who carry the most liability for delays, liquidated damages, and life safety? We already have such a huge stake in the project, but most of the other players think of us as the "window dresser." Only through real professional representation by the AIA will we have a chance to raise the profile of our chosen profession.
I heard yesterday that Smith+Gill just filed for chapter 11!
Anyone who can confirm?
For one, the problem is Architecture is too cyclical. We over build in the good times and go on a massive hiring binge only to follow-up with massive layoffs when things turn south. Currently the "oversupply" is getting laid off. Not the "architects" fault exactly, but we feel the pain.
Any reductions in our numbers to make Architect "rare" needs to coincide with strong legislation that protects our careers. Engineers or other professionals simply should not be legally allowed to design buildings. The AIA is far too weak of a lobbying body.
As for reducing our numbers I like to point out that most Pharm D graduates start at $75-100k for going to college a similar amount of time as any MArch grad. State legislation is quite strong stating that any prescription drug must be administered by a licensed pharmicist. So...to staff every Walgreens and CVS there are only 65 total pharmacy colleges in the country (both accredited and unaccredited). High demand and short supply equals good salaries.
A much better analogy than lawyers IMO.
I agree with outed in that as a profession we need to reassume liability for our work and stop pushing everything off to specialized consultants and regain market share. More architects are needed in "non-traditional" roles, ie. forensics, RE development, infrastructure, policy, etc.
Schools are behind on this. Most graduates don't even know about possibilities in these fields until years after graduation. Academics are overly preoccupied with eye candy and discussing the esoteric movements in design.
Of course we need exposure to this, but it needs to be more balanced. In general, I feel the current M.Arch system is basically a glorified MFA.
M.Arch's should be more specialized like MBA or JD programs and focus on certain building typologies, management, or technologies.
If this were to happen, I think firms would be more apt to see new hires as more than cad monkey or 3d render bitch. In turn the contruction industry in general would have more respect and reliance on the profession.
Meanwhile there are 73 AIG bigwigs getting over a million each in bonuses with our tax dollars. Really? You would think that they should all resign after their own stupidity and utter incompetence drove AIG into the ground.
We've already known what an absolute horseshit organization AIG is full of criminals scoundrels after they started going around paying millions of dollars in spa treatments after we bailed them out.
The only thing these people deserve is JAIL.
Where did this recent crop of Wall Street scum go to Business school? That is were there should be reforms. Any professor, dean, or other academic who was around when they were being taught how to screw up the economy should get the boot for failing to teach ethics and common sense effectively.
hey look- we made NPR -
"Chicago Architects Seek Foundation" - Recession and Architects
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102015914
+i - I was interviewed on NPR's Planet Money podcast last week for a look at intern-architects that are out of work.
Ok, guys, here are two cents from a registered architect who has been in the business for 24 years...and survived many recessions without ever getting laid off. Except I got fired once, but that's another story!
First of all, architecture is a BUSINESS. C'mon you all, do you really think that this downturn is some kind of vast conspiracy by architecture firms to hold down underpaid interns? Look at your neighbors. Look at the paper. EVERYONE is getting laid off. This bad economy is not a phenomenon that is confined to the practice of architecture. I have seen regional recessions this bad (Houston in the mid 1980's, the Northeast in the early 90's), but never one that impacted the whole country like this one. In previous recessions, if you got laid off and things were dead in your town, you could move to another state and find work. That's not the case right now.
And no, we will not get "smarter" and not overbuild when things improve. The cyclical nature of architecture is not a disease to be cured, it is the way the whole system functions. When opportunities improve, you get more work, and you grow. What are you going to do, turn down the $100 million design project because you think your city is overbuilt? No. When things slow down, you do your best to ride it out with the team you have. But when there's not enough money coming in to pay your staff, how do you keep them? You can't. You either have to cut salaries (including your own), or staff or both. Those are the cold hard facts.
We all go into architecture for the glamor and the chance to design, but at the end of the day it is a business like any other business and your company has to make money to survive. So how do you survive the layoffs? There's no sure-fire answer, and sometimes really good people get laid off, but for the most part...the best people don't. You have to be stronger than average and adapt to survive, just like Darwin says. That means learning the skills that the firm needs, being ACCURATE and FAST, and treating your assignments with the same care as if you were working for yourself.
OK, the sermon is over now. Here is my hot tip. I was distressed to read that some firms are escorting people out the door and not letting them even collect their personal belongings. That is really, really shoddy.
First of all, from the AIA Code of Ethics, Rule 5.203: "Members shall not unreasonably withhold permission from departing employees to take copies of designs, data, reports, notes, or other materials relating to work performed by the employees in the members' service which are not confidential." If your firm tries to deny you copies of the projects you worked on, you can send them a letter gently reminding them of the above.
Note that the rule did not mention photographs. The AIA has ruled that photographs MAY be withheld.
So what is my hot piece of advice? Go buy yourself a thumb drive, BEFORE the layoff ax hits you. And if you don't have access to the firm's marketing drive where the photos are kept, cultivate a friendship with someone who does.
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