My work experience is summarized in three years of air-conditioned office-based work in the capacity of “junior project architect/ design coordinator/whatever” …basically acting as the projects’ secretary: channeling queries and responding to them, doing some design, working drawings production, municipality approvals..etc. Really, I would like to do more design work ..more more more….but the offices in this region do not have much to offer in terms of nonformulaic design zest (I work in KSA) but I won’t nag because epso facto. Regardless, I’ve been offered a supervision job in the UAE, although I’ve only set foot on construction sites as often as I’ve set foot in a mosque (read church for the larger lot of you folks). Nonetheless, and on a more serious note, could it be said that a couple of years working on the supervision team would be a worthwhile venture in the larger knowledge of things architectural or would it just subtract years better spent on more design-focused efforts till I find myself a less aromatically-pleasing cussing "supervision bloke". An almost-irrelevant Note: I have (or, at least, i think i have) a slight aversion to sun, sand, surplus of sweat and superfluously stubborn straight men. Please submit serious replies, for I covet epiphany! Tanks.
construction supervision/administration can be enormously satisfying, challenging, and educational.
but don't think that you're getting away from paper-pushing. you'll likely still be doing lots of that, in the form of rfi's, rfp's, asi's, shop drawing review, etc.
and while i sympathize with your aversion to tough weather and overt displays of testosterone, that's just part of the business that you'll have to learn to deal with. throw in a little resentment at foreigners tellin' 'em what to do, maybe.
two years of this activity should not marginalize you, but make you a better, more conscientious, and certainly more mature designer, assuming the projects are good/interesting projects and that they have some of the design 'zest' you're looking for. if the supervision is on more of the sameold/sameold formulaic stuff that you've already been drawing, you're going to learn that. but if you're supervising construction of unorthodox construction, you'll be ahead of the rest of us in knowing how some things work that most of us haven't yet seen.
regarding having not set foot on construction sites: i hope that you'll have helpful supervision in the early months. if you don't know what you're looking at or how things are done, it could be a real trial by fire if you don't have someone to watch over you a little. hell, after 10+ years of regular c.a. work, i still need someone to go to with questions, even if it's a peer outside of my organization.
the beauty of an architectural education is that it is continual throughout your career and more importantly it is centred around doing. A decade or so ago I didn't have CA experience either and was thrown in the deep end, managing three projects at once (one was already in financial turmoil). All this without the assistance of a CoW or site engineer. You learn how to adapt, manage personalities, drink, befriend, and most importantly get the job done.
The only suggestions I can make are the ones I did or didn't follow. Document any and everything that seems fishy; carry a digital voice recorder and a digitial camera on site everytime; have a lawyer you can contact in case of emergencies.
reason being is that it'll help you understand why shyt happens in the field......
you'll be able to relate the dwg world to the built world and it'll give you the visual experience for future positions............. you'll understand why things happen the way they do and how contractors have to deal with things that you cant see on the dwgs...
plus you'll see why theres drama between architects and contractors..... it's all about communication and being able to keep an open mind on things....... for instance if you have a good contractor that understands design, then they can adapt to minor changes and tweek what needs to be tweeked in order to still make it work........ some contractors also get pissed off if they have to think about anything...if it's not easy and cut and dry then contractors complain........
noctilucent - it's not often that I disagree with Steven Ward, but here goes.
Steven's right about CA - we never can know enough about what goes on in the field. However, after what appears to be 3 solid years of in-office CA, you may want to be cautious about stepping into the CA role even more deeply right now.
I've seen many young architects "back into" a CA career path early in their careers - it wasn't necessarily a conscious decision. Then, when they wanted to tackle a more mainstream design and documentation role later, they found the shift both costly and difficult.
You say you want to be more involved in design. I'd say it's time to find a way to do that next - otherwise, you may become so specialized you'll never get back to what you truly love.
i tend to agree with quiz as well. i left a boutique design office two years ago and have since mainly been doing production and ca type work. i've learned a lot, but feel like the larger conceptual design side of my brain is atrophying. if you really want to be a designer and think you have the talent to make it happen, move in that direction rather than settling for an experience that while perhaps being educational may push you further from your ultimate goals.
yeah...but also think that "everyone" wants to be a designer......
it's really a frame of mind.... some are good at ideas and other are good at making it work....
i think as a designer, you still need to know how things are built..... this way you can sketch up some quick ideas for the production people and they'll take it from there......
some people are good at exteriors and some interiors...... so choose wisely
'k
tank you for the replies everyone ...but i'm, given the natural multitiude of voices, more confused now :)
i could always quit if i don't likey... It’s also a good move for me in terms of country relocation and money. And I’ve also always been an introvert abstract thing quite removed from the material physicality of things and the technical know-how involved, so there might give me a benefit in gaining a different insight there, even if its "not me". In both, general and specific ways, this would be a move forward from my current state of
jadfidler...do you really regret your move, or was this a spontaneous record of slight frustation ? do you think that once you move back into the more abstract forays of conceptual design, you would be as good or better than pre-partial-brain-atrophy stage? perhaps what you're saying indirectly is that on-site work might add form the material counterpart to the conceptual...but don't necessarily boost the skill-sets inherent to the conceptual. but that also doesn't necessarily constitute a waste of time.
well, some people waste a couple of years of their lives doing drugs...i'll just be doing supervision work....if i really don't likey (and even if I do really likey) , i could always go back to school for an "advanced design" masters degree , do a Phd in the rhetorical tropes of architectural journalism ,study cinematography, or become a circus gorilla (better than a cad monkey, i get more attention)
The problem with being an architect and working as a CA is at a certain point the professions seem to split. I worked as a CA's assistant for 6 months in college but you will wind up with a different skill set than what's required in an architect's office. There's very little drawing and design involved and a hell of alot of managment. If your not good with people, numbers and the management of both then it is not a job for you. You will also be constantly at the whim of all the other parties, and wont get to design a damn thing. In fact, that can be the most aggravating part of the job because you may get garbage from the architect but you wont be able to fill the blanks in their drawings because you're not the designer, you're the builder, so you get to send out rfis and sit on ass for a couple of weeks while the architect gets back to you and the client is screaming at you because the project is behind schedule.
yes yes...I insinuated that from jadfidler's post :"perhaps what you're saying indirectly is that on-site work might add form the material counterpart to the conceptual...but doesnt necessarily boost the skill-sets inherent to the conceptual. but that also doesn't necessarily constitute a waste of time."
and that final note might be the positive..yet maybe also naive...assumption...that it doesnt mean that its a waste of time. in the least, it does not subtract/detract.
ok, now im down. i sent him an email accepting his job offer. what if hate it? but i wanna get rid of my current job...makes me feel old.
its quite an earthy job, the kind of attachments to materials and time i've never had before...i am more of a daydreamy/nightmarey (i dream up interesting nighmare flicks every other night, i should prepare popcorn prior to sleeping) kind of person. well, let me tell you, that concrete splatters everywhere and steel rebars can be totally evil and mean. and your head, even in that helmet, is like a small dove's egg waiting for something, anything, to smash crush. and i'm trying to get over my vertigo! i also feel sorry for the workers; it is difficult for them.
i don't think it was a msitake at all; its more information but much less conjecture. it is almost extraordinarily uncreative, in that conjectural way, requiring a more visceral reaction to the ongoing activities and communication with people. in a rather cliched way, i'd say site work to design work is street-wisdom to intellect. its good to attain street wisdom but i absolutely miss the intellectual naivety of design.
therefore, i do not imagine this is where i will end up doing for ever till i die...unless i die soon. i want to regsiter, however, that i was also disillusioned with my previous role as a junior 'project architect', where i was never allowed to transgress the blandness of the run of the mill kinda corporatey-looking. having said that, i was treated well...to be fair.
Design doesn't just happen in the air-conditioned office, on paper -- it happens on the construction site, too, and a lot more than you'd think. More importantly, what happens on the construction site makes you a better designer, because, when you get back to the office, suddenly you will actually KNOW what you are dealing with rather than just guessing. For me, 2.5 years spent doing almost exclusively CA were INVALUABLE, and certainly didn't back me into a "CA" role; rather, I found I had a much easier time interviewing / snagging jobs after that because the firm owners were so happy to be interviewing someone who had actually been in the trenches and knew what the little lines on the papers meant in real life. I would ALWAYS support a decision by a young person to spent more time on the construction site.
That said, the sun and sand & endless desert totally turn me off, but that's a personal decision!
Supervision work: four-legs good or two-legs bad?
My work experience is summarized in three years of air-conditioned office-based work in the capacity of “junior project architect/ design coordinator/whatever” …basically acting as the projects’ secretary: channeling queries and responding to them, doing some design, working drawings production, municipality approvals..etc. Really, I would like to do more design work ..more more more….but the offices in this region do not have much to offer in terms of nonformulaic design zest (I work in KSA) but I won’t nag because epso facto. Regardless, I’ve been offered a supervision job in the UAE, although I’ve only set foot on construction sites as often as I’ve set foot in a mosque (read church for the larger lot of you folks). Nonetheless, and on a more serious note, could it be said that a couple of years working on the supervision team would be a worthwhile venture in the larger knowledge of things architectural or would it just subtract years better spent on more design-focused efforts till I find myself a less aromatically-pleasing cussing "supervision bloke". An almost-irrelevant Note: I have (or, at least, i think i have) a slight aversion to sun, sand, surplus of sweat and superfluously stubborn straight men. Please submit serious replies, for I covet epiphany! Tanks.
construction supervision/administration can be enormously satisfying, challenging, and educational.
but don't think that you're getting away from paper-pushing. you'll likely still be doing lots of that, in the form of rfi's, rfp's, asi's, shop drawing review, etc.
and while i sympathize with your aversion to tough weather and overt displays of testosterone, that's just part of the business that you'll have to learn to deal with. throw in a little resentment at foreigners tellin' 'em what to do, maybe.
two years of this activity should not marginalize you, but make you a better, more conscientious, and certainly more mature designer, assuming the projects are good/interesting projects and that they have some of the design 'zest' you're looking for. if the supervision is on more of the sameold/sameold formulaic stuff that you've already been drawing, you're going to learn that. but if you're supervising construction of unorthodox construction, you'll be ahead of the rest of us in knowing how some things work that most of us haven't yet seen.
regarding having not set foot on construction sites: i hope that you'll have helpful supervision in the early months. if you don't know what you're looking at or how things are done, it could be a real trial by fire if you don't have someone to watch over you a little. hell, after 10+ years of regular c.a. work, i still need someone to go to with questions, even if it's a peer outside of my organization.
good luck.
thanks steven, that was helpful :)
the beauty of an architectural education is that it is continual throughout your career and more importantly it is centred around doing. A decade or so ago I didn't have CA experience either and was thrown in the deep end, managing three projects at once (one was already in financial turmoil). All this without the assistance of a CoW or site engineer. You learn how to adapt, manage personalities, drink, befriend, and most importantly get the job done.
The only suggestions I can make are the ones I did or didn't follow. Document any and everything that seems fishy; carry a digital voice recorder and a digitial camera on site everytime; have a lawyer you can contact in case of emergencies.
i would do the construction supervision job.....
reason being is that it'll help you understand why shyt happens in the field......
you'll be able to relate the dwg world to the built world and it'll give you the visual experience for future positions............. you'll understand why things happen the way they do and how contractors have to deal with things that you cant see on the dwgs...
plus you'll see why theres drama between architects and contractors..... it's all about communication and being able to keep an open mind on things....... for instance if you have a good contractor that understands design, then they can adapt to minor changes and tweek what needs to be tweeked in order to still make it work........ some contractors also get pissed off if they have to think about anything...if it's not easy and cut and dry then contractors complain........
b
noctilucent - it's not often that I disagree with Steven Ward, but here goes.
Steven's right about CA - we never can know enough about what goes on in the field. However, after what appears to be 3 solid years of in-office CA, you may want to be cautious about stepping into the CA role even more deeply right now.
I've seen many young architects "back into" a CA career path early in their careers - it wasn't necessarily a conscious decision. Then, when they wanted to tackle a more mainstream design and documentation role later, they found the shift both costly and difficult.
You say you want to be more involved in design. I'd say it's time to find a way to do that next - otherwise, you may become so specialized you'll never get back to what you truly love.
Good luck.
i tend to agree with quiz as well. i left a boutique design office two years ago and have since mainly been doing production and ca type work. i've learned a lot, but feel like the larger conceptual design side of my brain is atrophying. if you really want to be a designer and think you have the talent to make it happen, move in that direction rather than settling for an experience that while perhaps being educational may push you further from your ultimate goals.
yeah...but also think that "everyone" wants to be a designer......
it's really a frame of mind.... some are good at ideas and other are good at making it work....
i think as a designer, you still need to know how things are built..... this way you can sketch up some quick ideas for the production people and they'll take it from there......
some people are good at exteriors and some interiors...... so choose wisely
b
'k
tank you for the replies everyone ...but i'm, given the natural multitiude of voices, more confused now :)
i could always quit if i don't likey... It’s also a good move for me in terms of country relocation and money. And I’ve also always been an introvert abstract thing quite removed from the material physicality of things and the technical know-how involved, so there might give me a benefit in gaining a different insight there, even if its "not me". In both, general and specific ways, this would be a move forward from my current state of
jadfidler...do you really regret your move, or was this a spontaneous record of slight frustation ? do you think that once you move back into the more abstract forays of conceptual design, you would be as good or better than pre-partial-brain-atrophy stage? perhaps what you're saying indirectly is that on-site work might add form the material counterpart to the conceptual...but don't necessarily boost the skill-sets inherent to the conceptual. but that also doesn't necessarily constitute a waste of time.
well, some people waste a couple of years of their lives doing drugs...i'll just be doing supervision work....if i really don't likey (and even if I do really likey) , i could always go back to school for an "advanced design" masters degree , do a Phd in the rhetorical tropes of architectural journalism ,study cinematography, or become a circus gorilla (better than a cad monkey, i get more attention)
but i'm self-justifying now...
erratum: what you're saying indirectly is that on-site work might form the material counterpart to the conceptual
The problem with being an architect and working as a CA is at a certain point the professions seem to split. I worked as a CA's assistant for 6 months in college but you will wind up with a different skill set than what's required in an architect's office. There's very little drawing and design involved and a hell of alot of managment. If your not good with people, numbers and the management of both then it is not a job for you. You will also be constantly at the whim of all the other parties, and wont get to design a damn thing. In fact, that can be the most aggravating part of the job because you may get garbage from the architect but you wont be able to fill the blanks in their drawings because you're not the designer, you're the builder, so you get to send out rfis and sit on ass for a couple of weeks while the architect gets back to you and the client is screaming at you because the project is behind schedule.
yes yes...I insinuated that from jadfidler's post :"perhaps what you're saying indirectly is that on-site work might add form the material counterpart to the conceptual...but doesnt necessarily boost the skill-sets inherent to the conceptual. but that also doesn't necessarily constitute a waste of time."
and that final note might be the positive..yet maybe also naive...assumption...that it doesnt mean that its a waste of time. in the least, it does not subtract/detract.
ok, now im down. i sent him an email accepting his job offer. what if hate it? but i wanna get rid of my current job...makes me feel old.
Hi QoS&H, how did it work out?
its quite an earthy job, the kind of attachments to materials and time i've never had before...i am more of a daydreamy/nightmarey (i dream up interesting nighmare flicks every other night, i should prepare popcorn prior to sleeping) kind of person. well, let me tell you, that concrete splatters everywhere and steel rebars can be totally evil and mean. and your head, even in that helmet, is like a small dove's egg waiting for something, anything, to smash crush. and i'm trying to get over my vertigo! i also feel sorry for the workers; it is difficult for them.
i don't think it was a msitake at all; its more information but much less conjecture. it is almost extraordinarily uncreative, in that conjectural way, requiring a more visceral reaction to the ongoing activities and communication with people. in a rather cliched way, i'd say site work to design work is street-wisdom to intellect. its good to attain street wisdom but i absolutely miss the intellectual naivety of design.
therefore, i do not imagine this is where i will end up doing for ever till i die...unless i die soon. i want to regsiter, however, that i was also disillusioned with my previous role as a junior 'project architect', where i was never allowed to transgress the blandness of the run of the mill kinda corporatey-looking. having said that, i was treated well...to be fair.
All animals are created equal. Some are more equal than others.
Design doesn't just happen in the air-conditioned office, on paper -- it happens on the construction site, too, and a lot more than you'd think. More importantly, what happens on the construction site makes you a better designer, because, when you get back to the office, suddenly you will actually KNOW what you are dealing with rather than just guessing. For me, 2.5 years spent doing almost exclusively CA were INVALUABLE, and certainly didn't back me into a "CA" role; rather, I found I had a much easier time interviewing / snagging jobs after that because the firm owners were so happy to be interviewing someone who had actually been in the trenches and knew what the little lines on the papers meant in real life. I would ALWAYS support a decision by a young person to spent more time on the construction site.
That said, the sun and sand & endless desert totally turn me off, but that's a personal decision!
ahhh! didn't know the post date! I'm an idiot. Sorry. Glad it worked out!
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