i don't know if i get behind their draconian response, but c'mon...it's a public health issue.

you know why you don't know anyone who's had rubella? measles? TB?

because vaccines work. i don't often jump to the defense of western medicine, but this is one where they got it right. i used to doubt them, but after doing the research on my own, i've changed my viewpoint.

don't buy into the hype mdler...vaccines don't really cause autism, no matter what jenny mccarthy says.

every doctor i've talked to about it (including recent pediatrician interviews) has said that the highly vocal minority that claims it does cause it are basing their assumptions on bunk science.

autism is a tough problem, hard to live with, impossible to cure at the present time. but most autistic kids (from what my docs tell me...) show their signs of autism long before their vaccinations.

i'm talking specifically about a basic run of DPT/MMR and tetanus vaccines...i'm totally not into trying to make and administer a vaccine for everything else, like chicken pox.

but i do think they have a place.

lots of doctors are now beginning (presumably because of insurance regulations, but also out of personal choice) to require that their patients have proper vaccinations prior to consenting to take them on as a patient. pediatricians in particular...

You know, I understand that people need to take care of their kids. I think its despicable if people don't get their kids vaccinated. Even if you can't afford it ($15?) there's a way to get it for free. But where do you draw the line? What's next? The parents of kids who don't wear helmets on the playground face child abuse charges? Just another step closer to a Nanny State. Please, pass more laws to help me take better care of my kids. I'm too stupid to do it without the government's guidance...

But vaccines and helmets are fundamentally different: helmets protect one child, vaccines protect everyone.

helmets on motorcyclists, however, keep our safety net support system from having to nurse riders through head trauma when they don't have enough insurance.

[just 'cuz it sounded like this is where this discussion could go. people riding on freeways with no helmets is so stupid it SHOULD be legislated. does maryland have a helmet law at least?]

mdler- please read the articles before you post them, or at least come up with a thread title that makes sense.

So the school system decided it was through playing nice.

That would be the Prince Georges County public school system. Maryland, like many states, is made up of several different counties.

Maryland, like all states, requires children to be immunized against several childhood illnesses

If you're going to get self-righteous and rail against something, at least bother to identify who you're fighting. If you wanna crap on my home state find a real reason.

Well, actually you do know someone who's had TB, sort of. Me.

It is not a required vaccine, except for internationals entering the country for the first time. I wish it were required- it would have saved me some real health problems, my parents a lot of worry and money, and all of us the utter humiliation of having to tell all of our friends, classmates, and coworkers that they needed to get tested because we may have inadvertantly given them a deadly disease.

So while I am in general against the 'Nanny State', I agree with the concept of children being vaccinated before attending school. Fine, if you want your kids to be unprotected, whatever, but don't put the rest of the population in danger.

Here's what I posted on this topic over on the baby thread:

In my opinion, it's fine to not immunize your child if you intend to keep it locked in your own house all day. And if you and your family and anyone else who comes over, including the mail carrier, intend to go through a quarantine/biocontaminant cleansing process every time you leave the house, too. I'm serious. Immunizing is not only an issue for your child's health, it's an issue for the health of the world, and if you intend to be a part of a society than the risks of immunization are minimal compared to the benefits.

By all means talk to your pediatrician about it. Show them that you have done some research and expect them to take your concerns seriously (if they don't, pick up your child, walk out of the office and find another doctor). Make sure they can assure you that they are not using old stock of vaccines, that they order supplies regularly from the same trusted provider. See if you can stretch them out so you're not inundating the child's system with too much all at once. And when they say that a certain shot - chicken pox, for example - might make your baby feel lousy for a few days after, they mean it!! So don't plan to get shots then take the kid off for a long weekend at the beach because everyone will be miserable. Angus' first vaccine made me cry my eyes out and nurse him while weeping in the ped's office waiting room because it was the only way I knew how to comfort him immediately. But we both survived.

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For the record, I also support motorcycle helmet laws, I was just outlining the difference between a child's wearing of a hlemet vs. immunizations.

wasn't picking on you, lbell, just saw that an incendiary subject was being raised and thought i'd throw a match.

and fro's right about school district vs state: i'm sure there are some counties in maryland, mdler and rf, that have their own conservative/ libertarian slant, filled with tough people that can fight deadly diseases on their own, and don't need to be told to get vaccinated. we're all on our own and can watch out for ourselves, right?

in heavily populated urban areas, however, what some people might choose to do or not do has the potential to affect a LOT of other people. thus the 'nanny' rules.

maryland's a wonderful state, almost as beautiful as it's southern neighbor on the east coast, and with blue crabs and oysters that are almost as good.

wow. rationalist...now i know two people, sort of.

my brother had TB when he was in the sixth grade...i was in kindergarten or something. had a golf ball sized lump cut out of his lungs after a month in the hospital. it was a pretty weird situation with the school in his case too...nobody was allowed to talk about it having been TB for fear my bro would have been completely ostracized.

this was 25 some odd years ago, so there was a whole different opinion about how to deal with it. i find it kind of crazy that they didn't discuss it...though i don't know the particulars. they must have discussed it with the school at some point, though they certainly weren't advertising it.

i actually didn't even know it was TB until my twenties.

i just knew he had a bad chest cold, and had a big operation.

he told his pals at school the huge scar on his chest was from the JAWS ride at Disney World.
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for the record - i love maryland. mostly because of my chesapeake bay retriever!

oddly enough, I was in fifth or sixth grade at the time too. My school sent notes home with all the kids just saying that someone had been discovered to have active TB, and all the parents should get their kids tested, and if the kids tested positive then themselves as well. Because I was missing so much school for doctors appointments, it was pretty obvious who it was. Fortunately it didn't get surgical, but I was on drugs with some pretty messed up side effects for a long time. They didn't cut the damaged tissue out, so I still have issues breathing while exercising. At the point where my body doesn't hurt yet, air intake just shuts down. My mom turned out to have it too, and she had to inform her office, where similar actions were taken. The havoc this caused has put me firmly in favor of vaccination. It's hard for me to understand why TB vaccinations aren't required after dealing with that stuff.

so glad i moved from md to ma...

red sox world champions

celtics 8-0

patriots 10-0

bruins 9-7

revolution - playoff run

All thread highjacking ethics aside, this can not go unnoticed:

Cadalyst, the only thing worse than a red sox fan is a bandwagon sox fan. Just cause you move doesn't mean you switch teams. But I'm sure you probably take credit for the Ravens Superbowl win and and the O's run in the 80's too you sell-out.

he sure is the bandwagon type.

side note though, if you want to be dumb enough not to wear a motorcycle helmet, then that should be your prerogative. i'm sure you'll regret it though when you crash and get head trauma.

i'll reiterate why this is not just an issue of the single rider's prerogative/stupidity: helmets on motorcyclists keep our safety net support system from having to nurse riders through head trauma when they don't have enough insurance.

emergency rooms don't turn wrecked cyclists with cracked open heads away, you know.

I almost hate to post this, because I'm sensitive to the fact that there may be people here who have lost their loved ones to motorcycle crashes, especially ones caused by idiot car drivers making mistakes.

But: my sister the doctor calls motorcycles "donor-cycles" because helmetless riders do end up donating a lot of organs.

I was bred a Steelers fan, and will be until the day I die. I do admire the Patriots, and I believe that they are a dynasty. The Ravens never struck me as 'good' even with the Super Bowl win.

The Orioles had a good run in the late 90's with Cal Jr and Brady Anderson, but I'm too young to remember the golden era of Cal Sr. and the 80's winning streak. I was at the game a few months back when they lost 36-4, and set the league record worst loss.

It also helps that I live adjacent to Fenway Park. When I signed my lease, paragraph 7 line 8 section 19 said you must be a Red Sox Fan.