no comanache! im asian. im jus being curious cos i dunno anybody who has left abroad soon after a bachelor's in india. Most of them work for a couple of yrs or find a university to study in the west.
i think thats bcos most indian students arent competitive enuf with their portfolios against students in the west. Architecture is still quite primitive here.
Oh yes i just realized i was not being productive to the post either..so here carolawinnie, here's what i will tell you from my experience:
1. its is NOT easy to just land here and find a job (at least in the US), if you dont have a degree from a US university. I suspect it is the same in the UK
2. As for improving your portfolio, I'd suggest working at a reputed architectural firm in India and getting some good projects underway that you could put in your portfolio. Or get together with some like-minded friends and do some serious competitions that will give you more work for the portfolio.
3. From my experience, the architectural eduation from India is pretty well-rounded in terms of construction and actual 'building', but not very 'cutting edge'. But I still know of many indian students who have got astounding portfolios. If you are in Bangalore, Bombay or Delhi, there are smaller firms doing some pretty groundbreaking stuff, many of them educated in the US and Europe. You will just need to find them and convince them to hire you.
4. There is something to learn from the jackass-type comments that people like mdler have on this thread - Though there is considerable money to be made in autocad sweatshops, do not even consider them to make some quick cash, they are just a waste of time in the long run.
5. Try to get into a program that will give you a scholarship or financial assistance (again, you will need a good portfolio for that). You dont want to find that you really want to go back and do some real architecture in india (not small, overrated remodels) but are stuck with a huge loan.
its funny some abbreviations i can handle, like ppl and atm, but when the word is written as it does sound like cud or wud, that bugs me - i always here the person speaking with a less than elegant accent. weird.
I think the use of the word 'cud' was slang, your posting is fine. I bet she knows more about english grammar than 80% of high school grads in the US....
to be a little constructive *ahem* for our young Indian friend, it's probably best that you go to an American grad school for 3 years (I don't know the details of Brittain's system) Becoming a registered architect is hard enough in the US without trying to transfer your professional degree...check out www.NAAB.org I'm sure the admissions board will admire your ambitions enough to forgive whatever "primitaveness" you might feel your portfolio exhibits. Feel free to wax poetic about Chandigahr or something.
also, www.the-bac.edu is a school that allows you to work while you get your degree, so you don't have huge debt.
PS- thanks for being part of a gi-normous, rapidly developing democracy, tipping the balance of global politics in favor of peace and freedom and ensuring the future of the free world.
Lets put it this way.....American jobs are being sent abroad to India.........and Indians are coming here to take jobs. Try to call the phone # in your American Express card, right now. I dare you.
Why is this never an issue?
There's always complaints in the media about mexicans taking lower end blue collar jobs, but no one ever complains about all the Indians that come here and take the white collar jobs. Doesnt India have one of the strongest economies in the world along with nuclear capabilities? From what I can tell, there is poverty in India, but the only ones that come here are the ones with money looking for more money. At least the Mexicans are coming here for a better way of life.
Just walk into hospital, engineering firm, Microsoft compound, 7-11, dunkin donuts, etc., and you'll see what I mean. They even have a MLB team named after them.
what does poverty have to do with indians who move abroad. they are two different things.
Poverty revolves around a lot of things (within the country).
As far as architects are concerned, its a process of orientation which most of us do with many nations. The ultimate truth is that bureaucrats or leaders dont look up to architects... more so if they did they are outsourced from Singapore or America.
And what do they do? Meaningless Aluminum boxes.... this is called commercial architecture.
So where do good architects survive in a place like here?
Isolationist/racist douche bags posting on this forum: white collar Indian immigrants apply to get into this country, wait in line for their number to come up, then are invited to come to this country. Our government sets quotas for the number and kind of skilled immigrants we accept every year. If you're concerned that you aren't being seen by a white doctor, write your representative in congress, don't harass an innocent poster.
chicarchitect...wtf?
You have successfully lowered the tone of this discussion even more.
Looks like you have a *few* 'concerns' regarding us Indians, let me try and address them:
1."Isn't India suffering from "brain drain" as it is?"
Hmm, if the brain drain was so significant, why would india grow at 9% every quarter? Its actually more of a 'brain gain' (i hate that term) since a lot of people go back with the experience and expertise learnt from developed countries.
2. "Lets put it this way.....American jobs ......American Express card, right now. I dare you.
Why is this never an issue?
There's always complaints in the media about mexicans taking lower end blue collar jobs, but no one ever complains about all the Indians that come here and take the white collar jobs."
You must be sitting under a tree, but the last i heard, a lot of people are actively denouncing these practices and as a matter of fact some large indian outsourcing companies are setting up shop in the US to address this. I heard of an outsourcing outfit setting up their offices in salt lake city employing 6,000 american workers. So it goes both ways, and give it some years there will be a healthy balance.
3. "From what I can tell, there is poverty in India, but the only ones that come here are the ones with money looking for more money. At least the Mexicans are coming here for a better way of life."
Where did you get this info from? The next time i visit my parents in India, i will invite you to come with me so you can see how much 'money' we have. IMHO the problem with illegal mexicans coming to the US is one that has been fostered by both the mexican politicians and the US government. Really, I've met so many talented, hardworking mexican people, Ive always wondered why the country is not doing better....probably its the low level of education.
And again this is a problem the Mexicans have to solve themselves, badmouthing Indians is not going to do any good. and again, FYI most indians here are legal immigrants, and by definition, illegal immigrants are going against the law.
4. "Just walk into hospital, engineering firm, Microsoft compound, 7-11, dunkin donuts, etc., and you'll see what I mean. They even have a MLB team named after them."
so fuckin' what? and again the MLB team is based on the Red Indians, you idiot.
5. "Good Indian architects can easily survive in Dubai. You're already used to the weather."
No point of making slight of the plight of thousands of underpaid, overworked Indian laborers...One could make the same analogy about the mexicans crossing the desert.
6. "Your food gives me heartburn"
you have not eaten the good stuff then, write to me and i will let you know of good indian restaurants.
Having said all this, let me make a judgment on chicarchitect - If you are having a shitty life with no prospects whatsoever, why are you blaming other people for it? Go to grad school, get a good education, there are plenty of good opportunities in the US for deserving people, be they of any race or color.
That said, I'd request the powers that be at archinect to please look into this kind of behavior and postings - these are really detrimental to the overall quality of discussion here are archinect - thanks.
chicarchitect, I really think you have some misdirected anger...
Dude, they come here to be Americans, not just make money. That happens cuz they are smart & hard working. And they make very good americans- isn't that the whole idea?
I'm sorry I don't want this to go away because I don't want people from other places thinking this guy's mentality represents the US, its the opposite.
at the same time, its good that he's saying it, 'sunlight is the best disifectant'
I quote Albert Einstein here: "The significant problems we have today cannot be solved using the same thinking with which we created them."
I'll tell you something you may have no idea about. Stop looking at Indians, Mexicans, Chinese or anyone else coming to America as your enemies or something. They are not that unless you make them in your mind.
Today, its these non-Americans you are worried about, since they make you insecure. You think they took 'your' job. Truth is, they only found their own.
Soon, there are going to be so many non-architects playing strategic roles in the enterprise of built environment. Engineers, economists, environmentalists, mathematicians. Why soon? We have already seen it happen since so long, and its only rising. This is the law of nature. The better shall win. Remind yourself to perform or perish. Are you going to hate all these other professions you think are eating out of your pie? You are going to be one unhappy kid when a mathematics graduate designs a building of more profound beauty, with higher value in function, of a more humane temperament than titanium walls, and of a far less impacting ecological footprint than the best seen today. Ecological footprint?? You might look that up if you feel like.
As for the context of the Einstein quote in this post, here's it:
Architectural practice is undergoing changes it should have witnessed at least a century ago. It is becoming a scientific endeavor for a worthy reason. If you ask an environmentalist with a sensitivity to development of human civilization, he would tell you that buildings are a necessary evil. Hence, if you must build, do it right. Tomorrow, if you see more engineers designing buildings and not just HVAC systems, you will also witness the inclusion of more professionals from India, Mexico, China, Germany, UK and everywhere else into the process. I can tell you that USA will absorb them as their own, but, where will you go? Tell you what, upgrade your puny range of sight that makes this an issue of nationality and race.
Most firms aren't to concerned with where you went to school so long as you've got the goods. The issue is being eligible to work here. Foreigners (I can't spell) are more difficult to hire, it requires the firm actively working to get you eligible. That's usually more trouble than it's worth particularly for a recent grad. Maybe if you speak a language that they need, we needed somebody that spoke Farsi one time.
My understanding is the difficulty in getting a job here is you need a visa to come and work, but you can't get a visa until you find an employer to sponsor you which is often difficult unless you have a close friend who is an architect here or something. I think the easiest way to get a job here is to go to school, there are one year arch masters programs (however these are generally not considered accredited professional programs but will allow you to stay for a period of time). Once you're here for school you get a student work visa which allows you to work for like a year or something. After that you have to find an employer to sponsor you and apply for a differnt kind of visa... I'm american so I dont know the names of all the visas.
I know some germans who are liscenced in germany and it's quite difficult for them to get liscenced in the US without a degree from a US school so I imagine it will be similar for Indians. If you want to stay and work longer than a year or so after school I think you'll want an accredited degree which will requrie one of the 3.5 year programs but you might be able to get advanced placement.
If you don't want to go to school here I'm not sure what all your options are. One route might be to see if there are any US firms doing work in India (or that have an office in India) they often have people doing some work locally, starting there might not be a bad way to get your foot in the door to go back and work stateside eventually.
Aug 29, 07 9:49 pm ·
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jobs for indians abroad
cud anybody detail the kind of job oppurtunities available to graduates from Indian architecture schools in USA and UK?
Do firms demand a more comprehensive profile compared to the syllabus offered in indian schools? And do firms accept freshers?
are you a Comanche or a Brahmin? what do you want to do?
no comanache! im asian. im jus being curious cos i dunno anybody who has left abroad soon after a bachelor's in india. Most of them work for a couple of yrs or find a university to study in the west.
i think thats bcos most indian students arent competitive enuf with their portfolios against students in the west. Architecture is still quite primitive here.
What do u know abt this?
I think you should learn how to type with good grammer first- make sure resume doesn't resemble your posting AT ALL
grammar..
i heard that they need Indian construction workers in Dubai
Auto Cad tech support
yeah, and you get to wait on the line for 3.5 hours before you can get a hold of one
wow, you guys are brutal!
Im not serious....but it is true
mdler,
shut the fuck up donny
oh and yeah carol, be careful about your language, you know americans are known for their accurate spelling and grammar (yeah right)
sunzofbitches
Oh yes i just realized i was not being productive to the post either..so here carolawinnie, here's what i will tell you from my experience:
1. its is NOT easy to just land here and find a job (at least in the US), if you dont have a degree from a US university. I suspect it is the same in the UK
2. As for improving your portfolio, I'd suggest working at a reputed architectural firm in India and getting some good projects underway that you could put in your portfolio. Or get together with some like-minded friends and do some serious competitions that will give you more work for the portfolio.
3. From my experience, the architectural eduation from India is pretty well-rounded in terms of construction and actual 'building', but not very 'cutting edge'. But I still know of many indian students who have got astounding portfolios. If you are in Bangalore, Bombay or Delhi, there are smaller firms doing some pretty groundbreaking stuff, many of them educated in the US and Europe. You will just need to find them and convince them to hire you.
4. There is something to learn from the jackass-type comments that people like mdler have on this thread - Though there is considerable money to be made in autocad sweatshops, do not even consider them to make some quick cash, they are just a waste of time in the long run.
5. Try to get into a program that will give you a scholarship or financial assistance (again, you will need a good portfolio for that). You dont want to find that you really want to go back and do some real architecture in india (not small, overrated remodels) but are stuck with a huge loan.
best of luck!
its funny some abbreviations i can handle, like ppl and atm, but when the word is written as it does sound like cud or wud, that bugs me - i always here the person speaking with a less than elegant accent. weird.
I think the use of the word 'cud' was slang, your posting is fine. I bet she knows more about english grammar than 80% of high school grads in the US....
to be a little constructive *ahem* for our young Indian friend, it's probably best that you go to an American grad school for 3 years (I don't know the details of Brittain's system) Becoming a registered architect is hard enough in the US without trying to transfer your professional degree...check out www.NAAB.org I'm sure the admissions board will admire your ambitions enough to forgive whatever "primitaveness" you might feel your portfolio exhibits. Feel free to wax poetic about Chandigahr or something.
also, www.the-bac.edu is a school that allows you to work while you get your degree, so you don't have huge debt.
PS- thanks for being part of a gi-normous, rapidly developing democracy, tipping the balance of global politics in favor of peace and freedom and ensuring the future of the free world.
Happy Indian Independence Day!
thanks vado
sorry that post was a real downer, damn!
Isnt India suffering from "brain drain" as it is?
look who's draining our brains...
don't blame us you can't spell
so who invented slangs... stop pretending you are the Wren and Martin... Englishmen
you must have slept through wren and martin's readings
Lets put it this way.....American jobs are being sent abroad to India.........and Indians are coming here to take jobs. Try to call the phone # in your American Express card, right now. I dare you.
Why is this never an issue?
There's always complaints in the media about mexicans taking lower end blue collar jobs, but no one ever complains about all the Indians that come here and take the white collar jobs. Doesnt India have one of the strongest economies in the world along with nuclear capabilities? From what I can tell, there is poverty in India, but the only ones that come here are the ones with money looking for more money. At least the Mexicans are coming here for a better way of life.
Just walk into hospital, engineering firm, Microsoft compound, 7-11, dunkin donuts, etc., and you'll see what I mean. They even have a MLB team named after them.
eastcoastarch03... you could put yourself to better use in some literature forum or something like that...
ok, i'm done
i think the MLB team is in reference to native american indians, but then again i don't watch baseball
what does poverty have to do with indians who move abroad. they are two different things.
Poverty revolves around a lot of things (within the country).
As far as architects are concerned, its a process of orientation which most of us do with many nations. The ultimate truth is that bureaucrats or leaders dont look up to architects... more so if they did they are outsourced from Singapore or America.
And what do they do? Meaningless Aluminum boxes.... this is called commercial architecture.
So where do good architects survive in a place like here?
Hey, if you dont like the meaningless alum. boxes Americans build in your native India, what do you hope to find here in the US?
Good Indian architects can easily survive in Dubai. You're already used to the weather.
P.S.: Your food gives me heartburn.
Haha! What the hell?
*sigh*
carola; please read sameoldoctor's post on 08/15/07 12:30, especially line items 1, 2, 3, and 5. that was valuable advice.
i think we should let this thread just go away;
agreed.
im not generalising.... loud and clear? My concern is with 'talked about' architects.
who's asking you to eat roti? well i can take burgers.
It reached me yesterday... thanks for all the advice.
Isolationist/racist douche bags posting on this forum: white collar Indian immigrants apply to get into this country, wait in line for their number to come up, then are invited to come to this country. Our government sets quotas for the number and kind of skilled immigrants we accept every year. If you're concerned that you aren't being seen by a white doctor, write your representative in congress, don't harass an innocent poster.
Shoot, sorry simples and rfuller. This thread should die! Sorry!!
chicarchitect...wtf?
You have successfully lowered the tone of this discussion even more.
Looks like you have a *few* 'concerns' regarding us Indians, let me try and address them:
1."Isn't India suffering from "brain drain" as it is?"
Hmm, if the brain drain was so significant, why would india grow at 9% every quarter? Its actually more of a 'brain gain' (i hate that term) since a lot of people go back with the experience and expertise learnt from developed countries.
2. "Lets put it this way.....American jobs ......American Express card, right now. I dare you.
Why is this never an issue?
There's always complaints in the media about mexicans taking lower end blue collar jobs, but no one ever complains about all the Indians that come here and take the white collar jobs."
You must be sitting under a tree, but the last i heard, a lot of people are actively denouncing these practices and as a matter of fact some large indian outsourcing companies are setting up shop in the US to address this. I heard of an outsourcing outfit setting up their offices in salt lake city employing 6,000 american workers. So it goes both ways, and give it some years there will be a healthy balance.
3. "From what I can tell, there is poverty in India, but the only ones that come here are the ones with money looking for more money. At least the Mexicans are coming here for a better way of life."
Where did you get this info from? The next time i visit my parents in India, i will invite you to come with me so you can see how much 'money' we have. IMHO the problem with illegal mexicans coming to the US is one that has been fostered by both the mexican politicians and the US government. Really, I've met so many talented, hardworking mexican people, Ive always wondered why the country is not doing better....probably its the low level of education.
And again this is a problem the Mexicans have to solve themselves, badmouthing Indians is not going to do any good. and again, FYI most indians here are legal immigrants, and by definition, illegal immigrants are going against the law.
4. "Just walk into hospital, engineering firm, Microsoft compound, 7-11, dunkin donuts, etc., and you'll see what I mean. They even have a MLB team named after them."
so fuckin' what? and again the MLB team is based on the Red Indians, you idiot.
5. "Good Indian architects can easily survive in Dubai. You're already used to the weather."
No point of making slight of the plight of thousands of underpaid, overworked Indian laborers...One could make the same analogy about the mexicans crossing the desert.
6. "Your food gives me heartburn"
you have not eaten the good stuff then, write to me and i will let you know of good indian restaurants.
Having said all this, let me make a judgment on chicarchitect - If you are having a shitty life with no prospects whatsoever, why are you blaming other people for it? Go to grad school, get a good education, there are plenty of good opportunities in the US for deserving people, be they of any race or color.
That said, I'd request the powers that be at archinect to please look into this kind of behavior and postings - these are really detrimental to the overall quality of discussion here are archinect - thanks.
chicarchitect, I really think you have some misdirected anger...
Dude, they come here to be Americans, not just make money. That happens cuz they are smart & hard working. And they make very good americans- isn't that the whole idea?
I'm sorry I don't want this to go away because I don't want people from other places thinking this guy's mentality represents the US, its the opposite.
at the same time, its good that he's saying it, 'sunlight is the best disifectant'
and I mean that that kind of thinking needs some disinfecting.
@chicarchitect-
I quote Albert Einstein here: "The significant problems we have today cannot be solved using the same thinking with which we created them."
I'll tell you something you may have no idea about. Stop looking at Indians, Mexicans, Chinese or anyone else coming to America as your enemies or something. They are not that unless you make them in your mind.
Today, its these non-Americans you are worried about, since they make you insecure. You think they took 'your' job. Truth is, they only found their own.
Soon, there are going to be so many non-architects playing strategic roles in the enterprise of built environment. Engineers, economists, environmentalists, mathematicians. Why soon? We have already seen it happen since so long, and its only rising. This is the law of nature. The better shall win. Remind yourself to perform or perish. Are you going to hate all these other professions you think are eating out of your pie? You are going to be one unhappy kid when a mathematics graduate designs a building of more profound beauty, with higher value in function, of a more humane temperament than titanium walls, and of a far less impacting ecological footprint than the best seen today. Ecological footprint?? You might look that up if you feel like.
As for the context of the Einstein quote in this post, here's it:
Architectural practice is undergoing changes it should have witnessed at least a century ago. It is becoming a scientific endeavor for a worthy reason. If you ask an environmentalist with a sensitivity to development of human civilization, he would tell you that buildings are a necessary evil. Hence, if you must build, do it right. Tomorrow, if you see more engineers designing buildings and not just HVAC systems, you will also witness the inclusion of more professionals from India, Mexico, China, Germany, UK and everywhere else into the process. I can tell you that USA will absorb them as their own, but, where will you go? Tell you what, upgrade your puny range of sight that makes this an issue of nationality and race.
carolawinnie
Most firms aren't to concerned with where you went to school so long as you've got the goods. The issue is being eligible to work here. Foreigners (I can't spell) are more difficult to hire, it requires the firm actively working to get you eligible. That's usually more trouble than it's worth particularly for a recent grad. Maybe if you speak a language that they need, we needed somebody that spoke Farsi one time.
My understanding is the difficulty in getting a job here is you need a visa to come and work, but you can't get a visa until you find an employer to sponsor you which is often difficult unless you have a close friend who is an architect here or something. I think the easiest way to get a job here is to go to school, there are one year arch masters programs (however these are generally not considered accredited professional programs but will allow you to stay for a period of time). Once you're here for school you get a student work visa which allows you to work for like a year or something. After that you have to find an employer to sponsor you and apply for a differnt kind of visa... I'm american so I dont know the names of all the visas.
I know some germans who are liscenced in germany and it's quite difficult for them to get liscenced in the US without a degree from a US school so I imagine it will be similar for Indians. If you want to stay and work longer than a year or so after school I think you'll want an accredited degree which will requrie one of the 3.5 year programs but you might be able to get advanced placement.
If you don't want to go to school here I'm not sure what all your options are. One route might be to see if there are any US firms doing work in India (or that have an office in India) they often have people doing some work locally, starting there might not be a bad way to get your foot in the door to go back and work stateside eventually.
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