That makes them so unreasonable? I had been planning on a long weekend with my father in law this Thursday and Friday...he's coming in from out of town and has an advanced form of cancer. My boss gets word of an interview Friday AM and asks me to go._I remind him of my plans. He says well you're still in town right? It's potential work, I think you need to come, need to get your priorities in order. Can't you afford two hours on Friday? Basically giving me no option. I've seriously had it...
Let me pile on, but about asshole critics on juries.
I sat in as a guest juror yesterday, and there was a range of work by the students running from mediocre to excellent. A couple of the other critics were downright mean and mocking, it seemed to me. This, in addition to their uninterrupted flow of annoying, arrogant architect-speak of unnecessarily inflated jargon.
Inside, I was both laughing at them and amazed by their self-congratulatory comments deriding some of the student work.
Students need to hear and learn from negative criticism, no question. But the only thing some may have learned from these two offenders yesterday was what a complete douchebag looks and acts like.
He is going as well, but says he also wants me there..its an hour drive there, then an hour interview then an hour back...has to change our plans that day and my wife is pissed...just a real dickwad move
sounds like an ass. there isn't any one else in the entire office who can do you a solid? citizen look up that youtube piece from 5 easy pieces where this intellectual is blabbering on until being read the riot act by jack nicholson.
Does he seriously think your ailing father should not be a priority?! Is he a father?!
WTF. Tell him no, sorry about a work thing that that came up last minute but your plans can't be changed.
Although, to be honest, I probably would have, as a youngster, gone to the interview, but ONLY because my bosses were actually pretty reasonable and my parents are the most easygoing people on the planet.
thanks for letting me vent...he's basically given me no option but to go, I mean, I guess my plans aren't important enough (roll eyes)....I am so angry about this and won't forget it and many similar issues....just wish I could jump ship
if you let this happen its only going to be expected of you. just politely tell him that your family is your priority, and there is absolutely not way you could go. most people are understanding, even if they pressure you to work. otherwise you probably shouldn't be working for them... its only going to happen over and over.
"if you let this happen its only going to be expected of you. just politely tell him that your family is your priority, and there is absolutely not way you could go. most people are understanding, even if they pressure you to work. otherwise you probably shouldn't be working for them... its only going to happen over and over."
things like this have happened over and over again (not to this degree, but similar) but in this economy, I think I'm not alone by saying that you fear getting on the bad side of a principal in a firm, in case there are future layoffs (which is possible here). I'd leave in an instant if I had a place to go...everywhere I've interviewed at is not in the position to hire...
what this tells me (and i don't mean to defend this person in any way, because he is clearly an insensitive jerk) is that the old-boy culture where family and personal life always comes second is still alive and well in our profession. your boss has probably put his own family on the back burner enough times that he just assumes it's normal and necessary for everyone.
it's really sad that this kind of culture still exists, and sometimes it seems that it's even getting worse. i hope your boss secretly reads archinect and has a change of heart after reading all our comments!
and, of course i wish your father the best in his struggle with cancer.
I am so sorry you even have to deal with such matters. I take it he knows that he is suffering from an advanced form of cancer too. It just a sucky thing all the way around and I feel in this economy it is happening more and more.
In the meantime, I hope the interview pans out and your company gets the work. Prays for you and your family.
doesn't change the fact that he's being insensitive and taking advantage of the way things are..but it's a little less egregious..but very little.
the main thing i think this shows..is that if you let someone take advantage of you they're going to keep doing it until you say no...which is hard to do when you know there aren't jobs out there. certain people are going to take advantage of that fact. if it were me..i probably would have lost it when he talked about 'priorities'..so i probably wouldn't have had a job at this point.
Sounds about right. I got 2 hours off for my gramp's funeral, that I had to make up at the end of the day of course. Architecture is for the big boys, those that know there is nothing more important than themselves.
I woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, sorry I can:t be more positive. Sounds like a job I would have been fired from long ago...
my boss told me to go home the day i found out my uncle died... i chose to stay and work since it was nice to have a distraction. architecture is like anything else and shouldn't be painted with a broad brush. at the end of the day we all make choices...and we shouldn't blame others for our choices.
and i apologize if that came off heartless..but to beccabec...there's no reason in the world why i would ever feel the need to make up hours for a funeral..or feel the need to go back to work on the same day. at least when it's a close family member...those are the times you either have to put your foot down..or just call in sick..what else are personal days for?
Thanks for clarifiying that you are picking on me, Lars, but don't worry about me, I have a long history of "putting my foot down". Hence my comment about Jefferson's firm being one that I would have been fired from long ago.
yeah..didn't mean to pick on you perse...just thought that having to go back to work after your grandfather's funeral was absolutely ridiculous. i do seem to remember that you stayed quite a long time at a certain firm where they seemed to take advantage of you for a long time though.
my point is that there are good jobs/good bosses out there. one or even several bad experiences doesn't make it ok for me to agree that the entire profession is corrupt is all i was tryin to say..there are good situations out there. And i think saying things like this, "Architecture is for the big boys, those that know there is nothing more important than themselves." may be true of your experience but shouldn't go without being challenged..especially since not only is it indicting your bosses, but every other person who has chosen architecture as a profession.
it's easy for me to say we can all choose to quit out of bad situations...especially since everyone's circumstances are different. i understand it's not always easy..and i've worked in bad situations for long periods of time as well. but in the end..the risk of taking the leap and quitting a job has always been worth it for me.
Oh my god! Who is in charge of selecting the images that appear on the front page with each discussion/news item/etc? Because they are freaking brilliant! Have you seen what they picked for this thread?! Classic.
Oh that IS perfect! That's immediately what I thought when I read the thread, but felt an impersonation of the evil boss would sound too Rusty-ish, and people would get hateful.
Jefferson....as Paul's image choice shows, I think the problem here isn't exclusive to architects. It's safe to assume that most bosses will never voluntarily send staff home. Put it down to them wanting maximum output from an employee or because they trust the individual to make the judgement call themselves - either way the decision to leave work (or in this case not go into work) is up to you. There comes a point where the employer-employee relationship, like all relationships, needs a bit of communication to correct the dynamics. I think it's fair to say that point is normally before you have to give up time with a visiting family member suffering from cancer.
You're being paid to do a job, not sell your soul. Sure, for a lot of us the job is also our passion but that passion is yours - they're not leasing it to you. I think this video says it better than I ever could: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4
Lars, I worked for three different firms, two of whom I complained about for different reasons. One I praise quite a bit but that was an engineering firm.
i've been following this thread hoping not to be the only one to say this, but.... i don't think the original request (as presented by jefferson) was particularly outrageous. look, i don't know the principal, obviously there's a lot of pent up anger on jefferson's side over other issues, but (as the proverbial boss), the request itself doesn't strike me as offensive at all. bad timing from jefferson's perspective? sure. but the boss didn't set the interview time. perhaps the line that's got everyone aflutter is the 'priorities in order' bit? (which could come off a whole bunch of different ways - pleading, arrogant, angry, etc. inflection and tone count for a lot and it clearly rubbed jefferson the wrong way. which is fine in and of itself).
what kind of surprises me is so many of the responses seem to take umbrage at the mere fact that the boss would dare - DARE - ask for some help with a last minute interview when it happens to fall on jefferson's day off. my guess is, even if this person's a jerk of a boss, there's about 200 things going on in his mind that, yeah, don't put jefferson's needs front and center. where is that wrong? we don't know the first thing about this interview, jefferson's office, their backlog, their debts...nothing. is their boss someone who jets out every day at 2pm or does he stay long after everyone else? i mean, there's no indication the boss is asking jefferson to do this so he can jet off to bermuda himself. what's the nature of this interview and/or project? is jefferson listed as a key team member in the proposal? is this project one that the whole firm has hoped would come through or one that there's no hope of winning? this interview might feed the firm for the next quarter or half a year. if you knew that info, would it change the knee jerk reaction?
just to be clear: none of us - not jefferson nor his employer - knows the full story. and the timing really does suck. and his boss could be a total jerk. fine. what i'm just more floored by is the pure venom being directed to the employer and for what.... for asking them to come along and help land a job? i'd personally give jefferson a pass (but i'd push them some as well if i thought their presence was critical to getting the job), but merely asking them to put in a little extra time when it can lead to work these days... not a bad thing in my book.
I fired my boss. Best day of my life. Look guys, we are all getting older and still paid, treated, thought of as kids by the current "boss". If you dont get some balls it will only get worse. My guess is the last minuet interview is another Hail Mary pass by a client so disrespectful of the Architect's professional standing as to pencil them in for some BS interview that most likely will be a chance to whore them down or more likely waste their time. The OP's boss probably spent a career getting on his knees for everyone who waived a dollar in front him which is why Architecture has deteriorated so far as a profession. Its now not even worthy of being called a profession, its a hobby. So my friend it's your call. Placate your boss, and get used to falling in line good soldier or grow a pair, and if he doesn't like it, find something else to do. Lifes too short to be someone's bitch and in the end all the extra hours and special requests wont make them respect you, it will be the opposite, they will think your a SAP. Nobody respects a SAP.
greg - I agree we don't know the full story, but I'd think you'd at least understand the boundary issue. you have two people you need to support in this situation - your family, or your boss. if your spouse/family was going through something really difficult, would you let work creep in between you being there for them? sounds like it's been an issue in the past, and we all know with the demands of this profession it's pretty tough to maintain strong relationships. even if it means work for the firm (which it appears like jefferson isn't actually "invested" in - otherwise I'm sure s/he'd have a very different perspective), which is more important?
Toaster- I get the boundary issues and, if given the full information, would tack accordingly. I can't judge either person's motives in this case- don't know them. What I'm really commenting on is the reaction.
Greg you offer an interesting perspective but rearead the original post.
My boss gets word of an interview Friday AM and asks me to go._I remind him of my plans.
"Remind" clearly indicates that the boss was aware of what was going on and was told a second time. Sometimes family has to come before work. Meetings can be rescheduled. Is the client such a prick that he can't accept that a key team member is unavailable due to a family obligation?
This is technically illegal in some states for firms with less than 50 employees. With firms more than 50 employees, an employer must allow an employee to care for an ill immediate family member under the Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993.
jbush - sometimes you only get one shot with certain clients. and It's really nice to have a boss think highly enough of your contributions to want to bring you along in order to impress the client - and, IMO, really important for the client to meet you at the beginning especially if you are going to be the point person if this project goes ahead (I've worked for people who didn't seem to think this was necessary, and it always makes for a challenging dynamic if you're calling the client and they've never met you in person - and even more difficult getting consultants to do anything for you). I think if the boss doesn't completely understand why jefferson is taking time off, then it sounds like a fairly well-managed work environment and it's just an issue of communication.
it looks bad to the client if you are shuffling around people on their project, but I'm sure they'd understand if your key person had a family emergency.
lars, it was margaritas, and it was breakfast. get your facts right. (And since you are interested, I'm not even talking about him, he wouldn't have thought twice about it if I took a week off for a hangnail.)
ah..didn't mean to offend beccabec.. those stories stuck in my memory..sort of...because it seemed like a miserable/frustrating situation for you that you had to put up with cause you were getting a ton of experience...or something like that.
Did y'all see the episode of Mad Men where Don demanded that Peggy to stay late to finish an assignment even though he knew it was her birthday and she had dinner plans with her fiance? This situation is sort a like that. Don was clearly being a giant douche, but Peggy stayed anyway (albiet her fiance was a spineless punk that she ended up dumping). Not saying it's totally apples-to-apples to Jefferson's situation, but Peggy stayed and won major points with Don. Is it worth it for Jefferson? Is your boss Don Draper? Is your firm Stirling Cooper? Ultimately, maybe it does come down to a matter of priorities just like your boss said. It all depends where your priorities are.
I have not read the entire thread, but I want to say since the economy hit the fan in 2008 the overall treatment of employers to employees has been downright terrible. We, as employees, are so afraid to do anything or say anything unfavorable it is causing us all huge stress on top of an already stressful profession. I have experienced my share of abuse, manipulation and working long hours, and for what? Getting laid off anyway after you have been used and worn to the ground once the projects dry up!
Many might find my opinion unfavorable, but Jefferson, I would have told your boss NO! Your boss asking you makes him sound weak, and if he knew or not what the back story is makes no difference. You told him in advance you were going to be somewhere, end of discussion. By doing what he says will make you look weak, and set a precedent for him to abuse you for years to come.
I have not read the entire thread, but I want to say since the economy hit the fan in 2008 the overall treatment of employers to employees has been downright terrible. We, as employees, are so afraid to do anything or say anything unfavorable it is causing us all huge stress on top of an already stressful profession. I have experienced my share of abuse, manipulation and working long hours, and for what? Getting laid off anyway after you have been used and worn to the ground once the projects dry up!
Many might find my opinion unfavorable, but Jefferson, I would have told your boss NO! Your boss asking you makes him sound weak, and if he knew or not what the back story is makes no difference. You told him in advance you were going to be somewhere, end of discussion. By doing what he says will make you look weak, and set a precedent for him to abuse you for years to come.
citizen, i completely agree with you on the jury issue. it is a real problem. these people just like to hear themselves speak and contribute nothing to student or to the discussion. there is an art to critique student work. unfortunately many are there to take easy potshots at the student project and impress other critics with their comments. i like to engage students into the discussion. that is much more interesting instead of talking an irrelevant issue.
orhan, this is one reason why, sadly, i've often found that visiting professionals on the juries listen better, are more engaged, and give better feedback --- not always --- but too often --- and i guess it makes a difference if it is undergrads or grads and if it is grads, if it is their first experience in architecture coming from an unrelated field or if they have a background --- i always feel bad for 19 or 20 year olds, or first year MArch's without any background in architecture who get pelted with arch theory speak in a way that suggests if they don't know it, there is something wrong with them ---
with respect to the professional practice issue, there may not be a right or wrong --- maybe the boss is where the boss is because at moments like that in her/his career trajectory, she/he always chose work over family and friends --- maybe that is, 'the cost to be the boss' --- the OP doesn't have control over the conditions, just his/her own actions ---
Yes, Orhan and Jmanganelli. It's like these guys are only talking to each other. The student and his/her work is reduced to fodder for these pseudo-intellectuals, an excuse to preen for one another. I like your approach, Orhan, and try to engage the student if it's at all possible. The other day, I actually took aside one student who had clearly worked very hard on his presentation, and complimented his project after he was almost dismissed by these two buffoons.
Power to Orhan. Where can I learn that Art of Critique? I will climb 1000 steps to a mountain top temple for that kind of advice. I am but a peon hoping to teach one day.
ne way, for now...
I would like to propose a device, "the jargon meter" a device that students will all have in their hands during crit. The device will have radio-like dial known as the "jargon meter". On one end it is green and labeled "great crit-ing" and the other end would be red and labeled "dangerously inflated". whenever the students feel the conversation is going the wrong direction or becomes a discussion of themselves they dial their opinion on the device. When the majority opinion of the students verges on dangerous inflated jargon, then a blow horn will be sounded by another standalone speaker device set in in front of the crits.
democracy yeaaa... but what do some architects care to preserve that. might as well be a fascist society.... haha
Would it be to much to ask the educational process itself to be the creation of this so called "jargon-o-meter"... To ask that at some point a student could look a little further into the discipline and know for themselves when and where to actually engage the critics as opposed to being either a protagonist of esoteric discussion or a pawn in the game of someone else's dream world. Am i putting to much responsibility on the student? Perhaps, but i'd rather place responsibility than substitute that with an electronic prosthetic designed specifically to let an ignorant know student when or when not to pay attention.
what is it about some architects....
That makes them so unreasonable? I had been planning on a long weekend with my father in law this Thursday and Friday...he's coming in from out of town and has an advanced form of cancer. My boss gets word of an interview Friday AM and asks me to go._I remind him of my plans. He says well you're still in town right? It's potential work, I think you need to come, need to get your priorities in order. Can't you afford two hours on Friday? Basically giving me no option. I've seriously had it...
Can't he go himself instead of asking you to go? Sometimes your family is just more important, and it's time to say no.
Let me pile on, but about asshole critics on juries.
I sat in as a guest juror yesterday, and there was a range of work by the students running from mediocre to excellent. A couple of the other critics were downright mean and mocking, it seemed to me. This, in addition to their uninterrupted flow of annoying, arrogant architect-speak of unnecessarily inflated jargon.
Inside, I was both laughing at them and amazed by their self-congratulatory comments deriding some of the student work.
Students need to hear and learn from negative criticism, no question. But the only thing some may have learned from these two offenders yesterday was what a complete douchebag looks and acts like.
He is going as well, but says he also wants me there..its an hour drive there, then an hour interview then an hour back...has to change our plans that day and my wife is pissed...just a real dickwad move
sounds like an ass. there isn't any one else in the entire office who can do you a solid? citizen look up that youtube piece from 5 easy pieces where this intellectual is blabbering on until being read the riot act by jack nicholson.
"Get your priorities in order"?!?!?
Does he seriously think your ailing father should not be a priority?! Is he a father?!
WTF. Tell him no, sorry about a work thing that that came up last minute but your plans can't be changed.
Although, to be honest, I probably would have, as a youngster, gone to the interview, but ONLY because my bosses were actually pretty reasonable and my parents are the most easygoing people on the planet.
P.S. I agree with you, Jefferson.
Self-centered people can take your breath away by their insensitivity to anyone's needs but their own. Priorities, indeed...
sorry to hear that, jefferson
thanks for letting me vent...he's basically given me no option but to go, I mean, I guess my plans aren't important enough (roll eyes)....I am so angry about this and won't forget it and many similar issues....just wish I could jump ship
your priority is to family. Tell him that
if you let this happen its only going to be expected of you. just politely tell him that your family is your priority, and there is absolutely not way you could go. most people are understanding, even if they pressure you to work. otherwise you probably shouldn't be working for them... its only going to happen over and over.
Bring your father along.
"if you let this happen its only going to be expected of you. just politely tell him that your family is your priority, and there is absolutely not way you could go. most people are understanding, even if they pressure you to work. otherwise you probably shouldn't be working for them... its only going to happen over and over."
things like this have happened over and over again (not to this degree, but similar) but in this economy, I think I'm not alone by saying that you fear getting on the bad side of a principal in a firm, in case there are future layoffs (which is possible here). I'd leave in an instant if I had a place to go...everywhere I've interviewed at is not in the position to hire...
i, too, am sorry to hear about this, jefferson.
what this tells me (and i don't mean to defend this person in any way, because he is clearly an insensitive jerk) is that the old-boy culture where family and personal life always comes second is still alive and well in our profession. your boss has probably put his own family on the back burner enough times that he just assumes it's normal and necessary for everyone.
it's really sad that this kind of culture still exists, and sometimes it seems that it's even getting worse. i hope your boss secretly reads archinect and has a change of heart after reading all our comments!
and, of course i wish your father the best in his struggle with cancer.
I am so sorry you even have to deal with such matters. I take it he knows that he is suffering from an advanced form of cancer too. It just a sucky thing all the way around and I feel in this economy it is happening more and more.
In the meantime, I hope the interview pans out and your company gets the work. Prays for you and your family.
to all...it's his father-in-law...not father.
doesn't change the fact that he's being insensitive and taking advantage of the way things are..but it's a little less egregious..but very little.
the main thing i think this shows..is that if you let someone take advantage of you they're going to keep doing it until you say no...which is hard to do when you know there aren't jobs out there. certain people are going to take advantage of that fact. if it were me..i probably would have lost it when he talked about 'priorities'..so i probably wouldn't have had a job at this point.
Sounds about right. I got 2 hours off for my gramp's funeral, that I had to make up at the end of the day of course. Architecture is for the big boys, those that know there is nothing more important than themselves. I woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, sorry I can:t be more positive. Sounds like a job I would have been fired from long ago...
my boss told me to go home the day i found out my uncle died... i chose to stay and work since it was nice to have a distraction. architecture is like anything else and shouldn't be painted with a broad brush. at the end of the day we all make choices...and we shouldn't blame others for our choices.
and i apologize if that came off heartless..but to beccabec...there's no reason in the world why i would ever feel the need to make up hours for a funeral..or feel the need to go back to work on the same day. at least when it's a close family member...those are the times you either have to put your foot down..or just call in sick..what else are personal days for?
Thanks for clarifiying that you are picking on me, Lars, but don't worry about me, I have a long history of "putting my foot down". Hence my comment about Jefferson's firm being one that I would have been fired from long ago.
yeah..didn't mean to pick on you perse...just thought that having to go back to work after your grandfather's funeral was absolutely ridiculous. i do seem to remember that you stayed quite a long time at a certain firm where they seemed to take advantage of you for a long time though.
my point is that there are good jobs/good bosses out there. one or even several bad experiences doesn't make it ok for me to agree that the entire profession is corrupt is all i was tryin to say..there are good situations out there. And i think saying things like this, "Architecture is for the big boys, those that know there is nothing more important than themselves." may be true of your experience but shouldn't go without being challenged..especially since not only is it indicting your bosses, but every other person who has chosen architecture as a profession.
it's easy for me to say we can all choose to quit out of bad situations...especially since everyone's circumstances are different. i understand it's not always easy..and i've worked in bad situations for long periods of time as well. but in the end..the risk of taking the leap and quitting a job has always been worth it for me.
I think you need to come, need to get your priorities in order.
I seriously would have punched him in the dick.
Oh my god! Who is in charge of selecting the images that appear on the front page with each discussion/news item/etc? Because they are freaking brilliant! Have you seen what they picked for this thread?! Classic.
Thanks Donna, I thought the reference might be too obscure ;)
Oh that IS perfect! That's immediately what I thought when I read the thread, but felt an impersonation of the evil boss would sound too Rusty-ish, and people would get hateful.
loooooooooooooove the image....so perfect
Jefferson....as Paul's image choice shows, I think the problem here isn't exclusive to architects. It's safe to assume that most bosses will never voluntarily send staff home. Put it down to them wanting maximum output from an employee or because they trust the individual to make the judgement call themselves - either way the decision to leave work (or in this case not go into work) is up to you. There comes a point where the employer-employee relationship, like all relationships, needs a bit of communication to correct the dynamics. I think it's fair to say that point is normally before you have to give up time with a visiting family member suffering from cancer.
You're being paid to do a job, not sell your soul. Sure, for a lot of us the job is also our passion but that passion is yours - they're not leasing it to you. I think this video says it better than I ever could: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4
Lars, I worked for three different firms, two of whom I complained about for different reasons. One I praise quite a bit but that was an engineering firm.
In my younger days I would have gone, grumbling, but would have subconsciously spiked the interview. That passive-aggressive stuff runs deep!
i've been following this thread hoping not to be the only one to say this, but.... i don't think the original request (as presented by jefferson) was particularly outrageous. look, i don't know the principal, obviously there's a lot of pent up anger on jefferson's side over other issues, but (as the proverbial boss), the request itself doesn't strike me as offensive at all. bad timing from jefferson's perspective? sure. but the boss didn't set the interview time. perhaps the line that's got everyone aflutter is the 'priorities in order' bit? (which could come off a whole bunch of different ways - pleading, arrogant, angry, etc. inflection and tone count for a lot and it clearly rubbed jefferson the wrong way. which is fine in and of itself).
what kind of surprises me is so many of the responses seem to take umbrage at the mere fact that the boss would dare - DARE - ask for some help with a last minute interview when it happens to fall on jefferson's day off. my guess is, even if this person's a jerk of a boss, there's about 200 things going on in his mind that, yeah, don't put jefferson's needs front and center. where is that wrong? we don't know the first thing about this interview, jefferson's office, their backlog, their debts...nothing. is their boss someone who jets out every day at 2pm or does he stay long after everyone else? i mean, there's no indication the boss is asking jefferson to do this so he can jet off to bermuda himself. what's the nature of this interview and/or project? is jefferson listed as a key team member in the proposal? is this project one that the whole firm has hoped would come through or one that there's no hope of winning? this interview might feed the firm for the next quarter or half a year. if you knew that info, would it change the knee jerk reaction?
just to be clear: none of us - not jefferson nor his employer - knows the full story. and the timing really does suck. and his boss could be a total jerk. fine. what i'm just more floored by is the pure venom being directed to the employer and for what.... for asking them to come along and help land a job? i'd personally give jefferson a pass (but i'd push them some as well if i thought their presence was critical to getting the job), but merely asking them to put in a little extra time when it can lead to work these days... not a bad thing in my book.
greg - are you married?
I fired my boss. Best day of my life. Look guys, we are all getting older and still paid, treated, thought of as kids by the current "boss". If you dont get some balls it will only get worse. My guess is the last minuet interview is another Hail Mary pass by a client so disrespectful of the Architect's professional standing as to pencil them in for some BS interview that most likely will be a chance to whore them down or more likely waste their time. The OP's boss probably spent a career getting on his knees for everyone who waived a dollar in front him which is why Architecture has deteriorated so far as a profession. Its now not even worthy of being called a profession, its a hobby. So my friend it's your call. Placate your boss, and get used to falling in line good soldier or grow a pair, and if he doesn't like it, find something else to do. Lifes too short to be someone's bitch and in the end all the extra hours and special requests wont make them respect you, it will be the opposite, they will think your a SAP. Nobody respects a SAP.
beccabec
didn't you use to work with a firm that was part of a larger firm..and your boss used to go out for martinis during lunch? or was that not you?
toaster - yes. with kids. and i do have a life with them. why does that matter?
greg - I agree we don't know the full story, but I'd think you'd at least understand the boundary issue. you have two people you need to support in this situation - your family, or your boss. if your spouse/family was going through something really difficult, would you let work creep in between you being there for them? sounds like it's been an issue in the past, and we all know with the demands of this profession it's pretty tough to maintain strong relationships. even if it means work for the firm (which it appears like jefferson isn't actually "invested" in - otherwise I'm sure s/he'd have a very different perspective), which is more important?
Toaster- I get the boundary issues and, if given the full information, would tack accordingly. I can't judge either person's motives in this case- don't know them. What I'm really commenting on is the reaction.
Greg you offer an interesting perspective but rearead the original post.
My boss gets word of an interview Friday AM and asks me to go._I remind him of my plans.
"Remind" clearly indicates that the boss was aware of what was going on and was told a second time. Sometimes family has to come before work. Meetings can be rescheduled. Is the client such a prick that he can't accept that a key team member is unavailable due to a family obligation?
This is technically illegal in some states for firms with less than 50 employees. With firms more than 50 employees, an employer must allow an employee to care for an ill immediate family member under the Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993.
jbush - sometimes you only get one shot with certain clients. and It's really nice to have a boss think highly enough of your contributions to want to bring you along in order to impress the client - and, IMO, really important for the client to meet you at the beginning especially if you are going to be the point person if this project goes ahead (I've worked for people who didn't seem to think this was necessary, and it always makes for a challenging dynamic if you're calling the client and they've never met you in person - and even more difficult getting consultants to do anything for you). I think if the boss doesn't completely understand why jefferson is taking time off, then it sounds like a fairly well-managed work environment and it's just an issue of communication.
it looks bad to the client if you are shuffling around people on their project, but I'm sure they'd understand if your key person had a family emergency.
lars, it was margaritas, and it was breakfast. get your facts right. (And since you are interested, I'm not even talking about him, he wouldn't have thought twice about it if I took a week off for a hangnail.)
ah..didn't mean to offend beccabec.. those stories stuck in my memory..sort of...because it seemed like a miserable/frustrating situation for you that you had to put up with cause you were getting a ton of experience...or something like that.
Yeah, I screwed that up.
Did y'all see the episode of Mad Men where Don demanded that Peggy to stay late to finish an assignment even though he knew it was her birthday and she had dinner plans with her fiance? This situation is sort a like that. Don was clearly being a giant douche, but Peggy stayed anyway (albiet her fiance was a spineless punk that she ended up dumping). Not saying it's totally apples-to-apples to Jefferson's situation, but Peggy stayed and won major points with Don. Is it worth it for Jefferson? Is your boss Don Draper? Is your firm Stirling Cooper? Ultimately, maybe it does come down to a matter of priorities just like your boss said. It all depends where your priorities are.
I have not read the entire thread, but I want to say since the economy hit the fan in 2008 the overall treatment of employers to employees has been downright terrible. We, as employees, are so afraid to do anything or say anything unfavorable it is causing us all huge stress on top of an already stressful profession. I have experienced my share of abuse, manipulation and working long hours, and for what? Getting laid off anyway after you have been used and worn to the ground once the projects dry up!
Many might find my opinion unfavorable, but Jefferson, I would have told your boss NO! Your boss asking you makes him sound weak, and if he knew or not what the back story is makes no difference. You told him in advance you were going to be somewhere, end of discussion. By doing what he says will make you look weak, and set a precedent for him to abuse you for years to come.
I have not read the entire thread, but I want to say since the economy hit the fan in 2008 the overall treatment of employers to employees has been downright terrible. We, as employees, are so afraid to do anything or say anything unfavorable it is causing us all huge stress on top of an already stressful profession. I have experienced my share of abuse, manipulation and working long hours, and for what? Getting laid off anyway after you have been used and worn to the ground once the projects dry up!
Many might find my opinion unfavorable, but Jefferson, I would have told your boss NO! Your boss asking you makes him sound weak, and if he knew or not what the back story is makes no difference. You told him in advance you were going to be somewhere, end of discussion. By doing what he says will make you look weak, and set a precedent for him to abuse you for years to come.
citizen, i completely agree with you on the jury issue. it is a real problem. these people just like to hear themselves speak and contribute nothing to student or to the discussion. there is an art to critique student work. unfortunately many are there to take easy potshots at the student project and impress other critics with their comments. i like to engage students into the discussion. that is much more interesting instead of talking an irrelevant issue.
orhan, this is one reason why, sadly, i've often found that visiting professionals on the juries listen better, are more engaged, and give better feedback --- not always --- but too often --- and i guess it makes a difference if it is undergrads or grads and if it is grads, if it is their first experience in architecture coming from an unrelated field or if they have a background --- i always feel bad for 19 or 20 year olds, or first year MArch's without any background in architecture who get pelted with arch theory speak in a way that suggests if they don't know it, there is something wrong with them ---
with respect to the professional practice issue, there may not be a right or wrong --- maybe the boss is where the boss is because at moments like that in her/his career trajectory, she/he always chose work over family and friends --- maybe that is, 'the cost to be the boss' --- the OP doesn't have control over the conditions, just his/her own actions ---
Yes, Orhan and Jmanganelli. It's like these guys are only talking to each other. The student and his/her work is reduced to fodder for these pseudo-intellectuals, an excuse to preen for one another. I like your approach, Orhan, and try to engage the student if it's at all possible. The other day, I actually took aside one student who had clearly worked very hard on his presentation, and complimented his project after he was almost dismissed by these two buffoons.
Power to Orhan. Where can I learn that Art of Critique? I will climb 1000 steps to a mountain top temple for that kind of advice. I am but a peon hoping to teach one day.
ne way, for now...
I would like to propose a device, "the jargon meter" a device that students will all have in their hands during crit. The device will have radio-like dial known as the "jargon meter". On one end it is green and labeled "great crit-ing" and the other end would be red and labeled "dangerously inflated". whenever the students feel the conversation is going the wrong direction or becomes a discussion of themselves they dial their opinion on the device. When the majority opinion of the students verges on dangerous inflated jargon, then a blow horn will be sounded by another standalone speaker device set in in front of the crits.
democracy yeaaa... but what do some architects care to preserve that. might as well be a fascist society.... haha
Would it be to much to ask the educational process itself to be the creation of this so called "jargon-o-meter"... To ask that at some point a student could look a little further into the discipline and know for themselves when and where to actually engage the critics as opposed to being either a protagonist of esoteric discussion or a pawn in the game of someone else's dream world. Am i putting to much responsibility on the student? Perhaps, but i'd rather place responsibility than substitute that with an electronic prosthetic designed specifically to let an ignorant know student when or when not to pay attention.
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.