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What Are Firms Looking For?

Hello All,

I am pursuing an internship after recently graduating with a BSAS, but have had no responses. I know times are tough, but there seems to be some activity on east and west coasts. My questions are in regard to the undergrad portfolio...

Professors have been telling me to focus on 4 of my best projects in the portfolio, and some suggested not to include hand renderings or sketches that are not related to a specific project. Although I followed this advice I have left out short projects from lighting/acoustics classes, hand drafting assignments, and other 3-4 week studio projects that show conceptual development. I am concerned that 4-5 projects may not be enough to show. When seeking an internship, should one show every project if represented well? The 5 projects that I have displayed in the portfolio mostly show finalized digital renderings, elevations, floor plans, diagrams, and model pictures.  This leads me to my next question. Why is showing the design process in the portfolio important if the end product is nicely done? The skills that I have listed on my resume include Rhino, 3ds Max, AutoCad, Illustrator, and Photoshop.

 

Thank you for any insight. 

 

 

 
Feb 20, 12 6:55 pm
BrianYamagata

Firms like to see process so that they understand your ability to generate that end-product. To a lot of firms, method is more important that the final result. It shows how you conceptualize your ideas, how you approach and/or resolve problems, etc etc. The people that are hiring new blood come from a time that a final product took a lot longer than what can be achieved today, and therefore they want to see the struggle. They want to see the hard work that was involved.

Feb 20, 12 7:27 pm  · 
 · 
Archinect

Take a look at this feature:

The Architecture Job Application Hints & Suggestions from Employers

Feb 20, 12 8:56 pm  · 
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pale shelter

Revit experience is 92% of getting a job. AutoCAD isn't dead by now? What other software is going to put a real (3D) building together today other than Revit? I'm unsure.

Feb 21, 12 12:31 am  · 
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zonker

Thorough Revit experience and an engaging personality

Feb 21, 12 11:44 am  · 
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alec1313

I'm kind of surprised to see people say "revit experience" because after looking through most of the jobs posted on here (and elsewhere) it seems that Revit is barely used. All the firms posting jobs seem to be looking for people with experience in Maya, Rhino, 3DS, and Vectorworks.  (products which i have no knowledge in, because i have used AutoCAD and Revit for everything...)

Feb 21, 12 12:08 pm  · 
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med.

If getting a job was all about REVIT experience, architecture would be produced out of jail cells.

Feb 21, 12 12:53 pm  · 
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pale shelter

lol sure med. ... I have to react on that thought though: I spent last weekend at the University with masters students on a housing, community service charrette retreat. My experience there, combined with the recent interns that have interviewed at our firm,  has astonished me with how limited Revit experience these students have. If you're coming out of school with 7 years of experience, and cannot use BIM, how else will you join a team in building a real project?  We are hiring ppl with 3-5 years of post-grad experience because they can join our  team running  - they have revit experience and can draw our 3D projects. We can all sit around and talk and sketch our designs ... but it's gotta get documented and detailed! ... and currently, Revit is the main platform by far for modeling and documenting projects.

 

Feb 21, 12 1:46 pm  · 
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Pale, the difference with students is that they don't need to produce the details for their projects except maybe one or two. Instead they need to make interesting forms and eye-catching renderings ... while revit can do this most find it easier in rhino or 3ds max. The only emphasis that gets put on revit is by the students who realize they need experience in it.

Feb 21, 12 1:54 pm  · 
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zonker

pale shelter

I have 3 years post M.arch revit experience and I am expected to have an absolutely thorough knowledge of 2012 - nobody cares about about my design capabilities - it just isn't necessary in the firms I work in - I am strictly production

Feb 21, 12 1:57 pm  · 
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recentundergrad

Thank you everyone for your comments. As students our Revit class was integrated with the construction II course. Other than that, studio professors pretty much forbid the use of the program, and pushed Rhino. Their reasoning was that Revit was not a design tool. I understand both sides. Maybe our education system needs to start pushing Revit production for at least a wall detail in our design projects.

Feb 21, 12 2:12 pm  · 
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pale shelter

there is such a thing as having both great design skills and Revit experience. I'm just skeptical about our schools not teaching us the tools (such as Revit) to put real projects together and be prepared post-graduation. We have our major contractors now using our Revit models to build 4D process/construction models - exporting Revit to NavisWorks for component conflicts, exporting to EcoTect .... and some of the construction supervisors now have 50" LCD screens with our Revit models up and running.

zenakis: revit 2012 is 0.5% different than 2011, which is 1% different than 2010... etc. You only need to learn it once - but I would recommend learning it (and to the original poster, this is of course my reason writing here). Different firms will have you be doing different things: modeling massing studies in rhino or skp; or just wall section redlines; or just marketing material; but yes, as a young intern - most likely you'll be in a production role ... and my argument for the Revit experience ...

If you can draw and have production capabilities, you will be a very valuable member to a firm. Unfortunately, many of the interns we hire w/o revit experience are doing more marketing and graphic work. That's fine, but if you want to advance and take on more responsibility, u need to know how that building gets put together and drawn....

Feb 21, 12 2:13 pm  · 
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tagalong

work....

Feb 21, 12 3:00 pm  · 
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zonker

 

This is a fairly typical add

"Los Angeles firm is seeking Architects/Designers with Revit experience.

All applicants must be proficient in Revit Architecture and capable of building coordinated BIM project models.3 - 5 years of working experience required.

We are looking for people that can contribute immediately and grow within the company."


 

Feb 21, 12 3:10 pm  · 
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BrianYamagata

The reason that Revit isn't stressed in academia is because students are expected and given a background in design, as opposed to production. Since Rhino, Max, etc are the contemporary tools for design, just as pencil and paper was back in the day, it is academia's responsibility to instill that design sensibility in its students.

The fact of the matter is eventually the people currently hiring Revit monkeys will die off, and those Revit monkeys will take over. Those Revit monkeys will need to have the tools/skills necessary to design, not produce.

I do agree, though, that Revit and the like could be emphasized a bit more in education. Students should at least have a familiarity of contemporary production methods. But design should always take precedence while schooling. Otherwise I don't think that the shifts we see in architectural paradigms would occur. Just my thoughts. 

Feb 21, 12 4:40 pm  · 
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zonker

In my thesis quarter of my M.arch program I took it upon myself to learn Revit over the winter break and use it for design and production - this lead to a job with a major firm upon graduation where we used Revit for concept > CD. The problem is that too many people think it is a production tool - and try to push other wise emerging designers into a "BIM WIT" role - the key is to learn how to use it for design and demonstrate this aspect of Revit to the office - the tools are all there.

Feb 21, 12 8:26 pm  · 
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pale shelter

that's exactly right Zenakis. I did the same thing with similar results; did a competition between jobs after college to strengthen my portfolio and utilize Revit as the platform. Hey ppl asked if I had Revit experience - and I did! I'm quite ashamed that ppl on here use those terms  "revit monkeys". It implies that those who produce are .. what, subordinates to those who design? Robots? Is Revit for the microsoft nerds?! lol

Example:

Unless I'm on a different planet, every firm I've worked at produces work aka documents it / draws it. Isn't it quite understand by now for those that practice that only 10% or less of our time is spent designing in this profession?! How else can architecture come to being?

BrianYamagata:

hehe: you're premonition on the future BIM / Revit hiring and associated production aspect is most likely completely off. I attended an AIA seminar recently over BIM and the path of how our deliverable to clients will most likely follow more and more intense 3D to 4D+ models. In other words, we will only really produce a 3D model and drawings will slowly be irrelevant. (Subcontractors will probably use IPADs and always be LIVE to the project / as in getting updated RFIs and ASIs real-time and fed into the model).

We had 80gb models 2 years ago. Now they are 300mb+. The current times is data data data, for us (the architect) - for exporting to NavisWorks for conflict recognition - for EcoTect modeling - for all documentation and quite soon models will be uploaded to the contractor's 60" LCD screen on-site and walls will be laser guided via the Revit coordinates. Firms who have not taken on BIM by now, are far behind.

After having a couple beers with our top-end contractor friends, I found out that they were taking our Revit model and breaking them into 4D (time) and 5D ($$) evaluations ... this isn't new. They explode the building and organize 3d components into programatic, process construction methods. I'd say knowing Revit is probably quite important at this time, but this probably all sounds pretty boring, ehh?

Feb 22, 12 1:00 am  · 
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pale shelter

Example ( blank ) woops: what happened to importing an image on here? how can that be done again?

Feb 22, 12 1:02 am  · 
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threadkilla

All of that sounds extremely disconcerting. Mostly because I, like the majority of recent grads, have not been taught the Revit goign through M.Arch. But I'm a pretty quick self-motivated learner and can figure it out, I'm sure... Not sure how much effort to invest into it, as learning new software every 5 or so years is not why I'm becoming an architect, and I'd rather just get hands-on construction experience.

I'm also sure that there's plenty of people who can do production way better than I ever could, just as I can synthesize conceptual and pragmatic design moves better than them. And I don't mean to sound self-important - this is the general case in the field. If everybody knew (for example) why Mies always made you turn to the right to enter, and had a novel clue of how to use that knowledge while working out egress we wouldn't have plain ol' buildings - everything would be architecture. And if everyone really knew how to detail the hell out of every building component, and do it with the speed of light, we wouldn't need all the permitting hoops to jump through to get things built. Seems pretty clear that you've got at least these two distinct types of people getting into the field, picking up whatever skills are lacking to become competitive and relying on the fact that architecture is a team sport.

Backtracking to the construction experience, though. Where are you people building with 50" LCD monitors on site? Around these parts (Calgary) that sort of equipment would not survive so much as a day in the field. I can see the potential for integrated project delivery with BIM, but the guys pouring your concrete and welding your frames and nailing your studs together will never appreciate their super hanging out behind a giant flat screen all day. Forget about every other place on the face of the planet where an LCD monitor is a luxury far beyond most people's means, right?

@pale shelter: Have you ever spent a day raking mud? Highly recommended activity for anyone in desperate need of a reality check about our profession's uncertain status.

Feb 22, 12 4:20 am  · 
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alec1313

I have pushed Revit on both the firms that I have worked for since I graduated with an M.Arch. My school pushed us to use Revit on our projects (didn't teach us HOW to use it, mainly just 'you have to use this program, learn it.') so we did. And most of us learned how to design AND construct with it. I love it, thus the reason I have been pushing on the firms I have been at. While most of them are willing, and agree its a great tool, it basically comes down to money for them. The program costs atleast $5,500 per seat, and to get everyone using it in the office, even our 4-person office would have been over $20,000. Where is that money going to come from? The clients we had all wanted a fast turn around and work to be produced - aka, they want the most for their money. They didn't give 2 hoots about whether or not the project was in 3D or 4D or could be rendered or this, that, and the other thing, they wanted drawings immediately - which, from principles who had known and grown up with CAD - that was the fastest way. Also, the other problem we ran into, was that even though we used Revit (after months of persuading) and did all of the architectural work in it, our MEP consultants asked for the models to be exported to CAD (even though they had revit capabilities!)

So, while I think Revit is great and love using it, I don't see how it can become a widely used program until they A) drop the price - which would also reduce piracy, and B) convince the client that spending a little more time and money upfront because Revit projects tend to take more time to frontload and save money in the later stages and stop rushing all their projects, it's all coming back to "what can you produce thats fast and cheap?"

personally.

Feb 22, 12 9:21 am  · 
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toasteroven

FYI - usually firms that want someone with several years revit experience typically don't have enough people on staff who are skilled enough with revit.

 

- for all documentation and quite soon models will be uploaded to the contractor's 60" LCD screen on-site and walls will be laser guided via the Revit coordinates. Firms who have not taken on BIM by now, are far behind.

 

you must not be doing any renovation work...

Feb 22, 12 11:10 am  · 
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Adam, I am going to take a slightly different tact on this one.  Let's re-phrase your question.  My guess is that most firms are not really "looking" for anyone these days, they have tons of resumes and portfolios coming in already.

So I think a better question might be "How do I stand out from those dozens of other applications"?

I am a bit old school and I believe in the value of face to face interaction.  My suggestion is once you get the details of your portfolio worked out, hand deliver to the office (if it's local) rather than e-mail etc...

Try to think of other ways you can "stand out from the pack" in the job search.

Good Luck!

 

Feb 22, 12 11:48 am  · 
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zonker

 

"I'm also sure that there's plenty of people who can do production way better than I ever could, just as I can synthesize conceptual and pragmatic design moves better than them"

 "That's a pretty arrogant statement, considering the company you're in." - 

This kind of  I am the designer, you are the BIM WIT or cad monkey - you are not paid to think is what marginalizes potential designers that happen to be using their problem solving skills in production - problem solving is design. We all think we are better designers than those production lackeys who drive autocad or Revit all day and night.

The great thing about Revit, is that design and production become one integrated and collaborative process.

Feb 22, 12 12:03 pm  · 
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med.

Pale Shelter - I have no idea what you're talking about.

I've worked for the last 8 years,  when I got my first job in 2003, I didn't even know autoCAD.  In 2008 I jumped ship from a firm that used Microstation to a firm that only used ACAD and REVIT - I didn't know either (I learned them).  It was easy - very intuitive once you already know how to use one.  Now I'm working at a firm that utilizes REVIT 100%.  Can't go back to microstation but still use CAD every now and again.  You can teach people how to draft with computer programs,
 

Most of the firms I worked at including my present one are large global behemoth firms that crank out some very good design work too.  I interview people every once in a while and 99% of what I particularly look at in a candidate is not whether he or she knows drafting software which I know for certain they can just pick up.

Feb 22, 12 12:14 pm  · 
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med.

And by the way there are a lot of firms I've known who refuse to buy into REVIT.  They have struggled too...

Feb 22, 12 12:56 pm  · 
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Isn't this really just about process and not necessarily tools?

The end goal of "architecture" is to get the ideas translated into a medium that's acceptable to the majority of the stakeholders. That's still usually in paper but increasingly moving towards digital forms that are largely just virtualizations of the "paper space." Perhaps the useful products are the fancier color models which demonstrate energy efficiency and structural soundness.

Architecture doesn't always have to manifest itself as a physical tangible object, e.g., a firm getting paid for preplanning and visualization services to gain support and approval of a future building.

Revit is just one of many, probably the better if not best, tools to do that. But if you're a person who can competently evaluate processes and workflow, you don't necessarily need Revit to produce [profitable] work.

I think the ability to self-structure and invent or adhere to process is a trait all employers and industries look for.

Feb 22, 12 12:59 pm  · 
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okin15

Adam, the best recent-grad portfolios we see at our office are thick.  They include almost all the work a student has done, both in school and in other internships, or on the side, and they can be 100-200 pages.  Sometimes they are split into multiple volumes (studios, seminars, professional work, etc.)  At interviews, we'll either flip through and ask about specific pages/projects, or we will ask the interviewee to talk about the most important or best work, but the volume shows through.

However, in applications, we never accept "portfolios" per se.  We ask for 3-6 sample pages.  Again, for the best applicants, these are not merely pages from the portfolio, but 3-4 entire projects distilled to a few images, and condensed onto a page or two each.  Hope that helps.

Feb 22, 12 2:19 pm  · 
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okin15

Sorry to double post.

If getting an initial response is the issue, an applicant should probably focus more time on the resume, cover letter and on following up on leads and applications, and less on the portfolio.  While it can't hurt to apply "everywhere", you're much more likely to get responses from firms looking to hire interns or others with relevant experience.

Work your connections with friends, classmates, instructors, parents' friends, past co-workers, etc.  This is where you will find leads other than those listed on Archinect or regional architectural societies' websites.

Also remember, you may have to get your foot in the door answering phones, or doing office management or some other supporting task.

Feb 22, 12 2:25 pm  · 
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gwharton

First off, with a BSAS, I assume you mean you don't have an accredited degree, but rather a four-year "architectural studies" degree. Also, that this degree is from an institution that has a more technical than design emphasis in its architecture program (hence the "BS" instead of "BA"). The lack of a BArch or MArch is probably a major roadblock to getting noticed by prospective employers since you're a new graduate and don't appear to have much work experience. Based on that, I would focus on looking for opportunities with firms at which there are senior people who graduated from your same school. They'll know you better by virtue of knowing the program.

Second, when I look at resumes, I generally look for the following things:

*** Professionalism & Communication Skills
The resume is clean and clear, with no misspellings, grammatical errors, gimmicks, or goofy "designerly" crap. The focus of the resume is on communicating your capabilities rather than your credentials. You communicate in a way that is personable, engaging, and understandable.

*** Clear Benefit
Your resume should tell me two things about you: What can you do for me, and how can you make me money?

*** Clear Differentiation.
What makes you special?  It shows that you are serious, interesting, and capable of doing interesting things. It should make me want to meet you and talk to you.

Third, if I decide your resume and cover letter (and teaser page, if you included one) is interesting enough that I want to interview you, you need to show me the following things when we meet:

*** People Skills
You present yourself in a very professional and personally engaging manner. You dress appropriately, carry yourself with confidence but not arrogance, speak clearly and to the point, and are just generally "good in a room." This is very important. Architecture is a social profession. You don't need to be a raging extrovert, but you need to be comfortable and engaging and able to interact with strangers easily. Not only that, but everyone who meets you will subconsciously make up their minds about you within about the first 10 seconds your interact. Make a good first impression and don't be weird.

*** Passion & Energy
What do you really care about? What gets you out of bed in the morning? Why architecture and not something else? Bring that to the interview and let me see it or hear it. I can get faceless cogs for the corporate machine and interchangeable CAD slaves anywhere. I want people with passion, energy, dedication.

*** Ambition, Discipline, and Direction
Is your passion, energy, and dedication directed and connected to tangible goals? Toward what? What are your goals? How specifically do you intend to achieve them? What have you already done toward that end? Do you have a plan? Do you have vision? Share them. The opposite of the faceless cog is the directionless, solipsistic, adult-child wanderer who can't seem to make decisions about anything or focus on getting things done. There are thousands of those pouring out of design schools every year. Show me you aren't one of them.

*** A Good Eye and Good Judgment
Bring me stuff that clearly demonstrates you have a productive and creative design process, the ability to think three-dimensionally and holistically, and are capable of integrating complex determinants into elegant and interesting solutions. I would much rather see how you think about design than look at a bunch of shiny photo-realistic renderings. I once hired a new graduate as a designer on the basis of his sketchbook alone (no portfolio at all), simply because it was so clear that he had a strong design sense, demonstrably good judgment, and clear process for thinking about design.

*** A Good Hand
Show me what you can do with a pen or pencil on paper. You can impress me with your computer skills later if you like, but before that I want to know whether or not you can use hand-drawing as an effective design and communication tool. Drawing and design thinking are inextricably intertwined. I have also learned from hard experience that those who cannot draw with a pen or pencil, can't draw with a computer either. Your sketches don't have to be perfect, but they should be interesting, engaging, and clearly communicate your design ideas.

Feb 22, 12 6:33 pm  · 
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sureel08

I see this has turned into a "Revit" experience thread but back to the OP's question about finding an internship....

 

I think the ability to pick up a drafting program to a workable level in only a week or two is a given for 90% of the fresh grads (this is prob obvious with a quick glance at their portfolios full of rendingings from complex software packages). I wouldnt worry about knowing x program or y program and I would focus more on networking, networking, networking! I didnt do enough of this when coming out of MArch but it was also very different times. Today I would be using LinkedIn, FB, Twitter, and/or the Alumni directory like it was my job to get informal meetings with any architect, developer, or contractor that would give me the time of day. If you meet or connect with say just 3 people a week your chances of finding a internship will exponentially increase. Unfortunately we dont do this enough in this profession until you move up the ranks but the more contacts you have starting from the beginning of your career the better off you will be for your entire career.

 

Feb 22, 12 7:49 pm  · 
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Peter Normand

Being productive is important, in your resume mention what you accomplished at the jobs you had. Mention any freelance work you did and be prepared how to discuss how you found it. Small firms want much more than a production person on CAD Revit or whatever means of drafting they use, they want a team player who can competently play multiple roles.  Can you type, write specks, negotiate contracts? Getting relevant experience may be easier than you think.

Feb 27, 12 7:53 pm  · 
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