Hear about the “Foul ball architect”? An architect had 3 foul balls come right at him at Yankee Stadium and he couldn’t catch any of them – why doesn’t that surprise me.
personally, i'm planning on attending Tigerman's lectures because he's at such a "zero fucks given" stage in his life, that he does come up with some hilarious albeit jaded and cynical one liners...
Donna, 10 years ago you didn't post under your real name, right? That should make some difference!
Although I feel like the ratio of off-topic humor to complaints about licensing / stupid questions / quotidian stuff used to be better (higher). I assume the recession culled most of the good-humored people.
ivorykeyboard, pretty sure Tigerman has been a zero-fucks-given guy for the entirety of his adult life. Which makes him fun to listen to - but seems to impact his work too.
Thanks for posting that, ivorykeyboard! I thought I was going up this weekend but now I can't, too overscheduled. I'll get up there at some point and hopefully just go see pavilions etc. rather than going to lectures - I'll likely have my son with me and while I *will* drag him along to see "boring architecture" (his term) I don't think I can make him sit through a lecture, too hard for the kid. He likes to move.
^ Donna, same thing with my wife... I don't know if I can afford the necessary candy & chocolate bribe to get her to join.
With that said, I did see Alvin Huang from Synthesis Design lecture recently and quite enjoyed it. I remember him getting some flack on these boards when his office had a post on their Volvo charging station.
Hey NCARB, instead of spending cash sending people all over the country to justify your bullshit requirements and spending cash on a LEED Platinum office on K Street, how about using some to pay for a REAL vignette software graded by REAL people that resembles REAL life so I don't have to be pissed off that I failed your idiotic test due to your obtuse bullshit SOFTWARE?
Oh, right. You don't give a fuck about the profession, you just pretend to because it puts cash in your coffers.
@midlander I don't doubt it, but i'll admit I was fairly insulated to the Chicago architectural scene before moving here, so I wasn't familiar with King Stanley's musings. Here's a classic:
"What do you think of the recent redo of the Mies-designed IBM tower by—
I am incidentally touring people around a certain space in Chicago for the open house day, but if i tell you guys which i'll blow my cover. @Donna - the biennial extends beyond this weekend! It goes til January I believe.
Seriously getting sick of people jumping all over Balkins too. Guy just tries to help. So what if he isn't you?!?
Oct 1, 15 5:26 pm ·
·
Gruen,
Thanks.
So what if I may choose to use cyanotype or diazo process for preparing official deliverables to clients for example?
So what if I partner with an architect in connection with my business? Ideally, direct in-person contact from time to time. This isn't necessarily needed if sufficient alternate means are made. When it gets down to stamping plans, it is important that the architect stamping has been involved throughout the process. Documenting that is important and even if there isn't an audit, it is important to have. Some types of work which really doesn't need an architect stamp is still valid for work. It isn't like I would let the architect rubber stamp. After all, if I convert my sole-proprietorship into a partnership of some kind or such and register my business as a registered professional design firm, as a proprietor, I would be bound to the code of conduct for Washington projects as if I was a licensed architect (essentially to extent applicable... of course). So what? It is a way to the end goal. I can't employ an architect as a conventional employee and get the IDP/etc. If the architect is a business partner, I can because the architect would be a co-owner and therefore not a subordinate to me per se. Being of equal rank with him being put in charge of services constituting the practice of architecture or otherwise bearing the architect stamp is beneficial to me. I can't fire a co-owner. It doesn't work that way. A partnership can be dissolved but that defeats any premise of getting the required hours.
Under California law, independent practice refers to work not involving an architect having supervision and control. Such as independent building design practice. That means, my independent building design experience or any hours I spend working on projects not involving an architect would not count. I know that.
So what's the beef? What's the issue? Firms in California and firms in Washington and even in Oregon are already incorporating tools that involve remote contact. Firms are already embracing that.
Boards are already moving past interpretations from 1919. Also, back then the whole process of producing work is different. So what's the issue, precisely?
Are they really wanting to employ me to their firm?
balkins, I hope you're far away from that umpqua community college, this country is seriously mentally ill.....
Oct 1, 15 6:09 pm ·
·
Bottom line:
If one wants to give help, do so with the "jackassery".
I am looking at ways to move forward in at least initial licensure where I am.
Oct 1, 15 6:26 pm ·
·
JLC-1, I just getting to your post.
Well, I'm in Astoria so it is a good thing I am not there. It is time the news media learns to quit giving attention to such dumb fucks. I agree, the country has mental illness problems. I am wondering if everyone in the country needs to undergo a mandatory psychological evaluation and where needed, get treatment.
I sure hope not.
Off from that topic, I'll be looking at finishing the rest of my Associates degree in Historic preservation at Clatsop Community College while I am here which would cost around $900 in tuition and fees and a budget of maybe $1,500 so as to cover any books and supplies. Ideally, $2000 so I can have food at campus as well.
This way, that is officially completed. I still have the Bachelor's to complete but that is more expensive. The main courses I need to take is CWE work experience for historic preservation and a directed projects project which I would probably work it together.
I haven't given up on the the Bachelor's degree. Just that it needs more money to finish it. I was close to finishing it in the first place. Any thoughts or ideas for projects along the line that also goes along with my building design (or architectural if you really want to call it that) and historic preservation background. It should be something that will go into the work sufficiently.
I like to wrap it up without it being still open ended. For me, it is a personal thing to complete degrees. As a matter of fact, it could very well help in me in California architectural licensing when coupled with my CAD certificate to secure at least a 1 year experience on the track.
All the while, I am working also on the business end, as well.
Richard Balkins what is an associate degree in historic preservation from a community college likely to do for you? Does your school's career office publish rates of employment and salaries in the field after graduation with that degree? Do they offer guaranteed placement in the field after graduation? If not you might consider whether the $1500 to $2000 would be better saved and added to the nest egg to finish your BA, and the time that would be spent in the community college courses would be better put toward earning hours. I recommend choosing the shortest route to the degree that will open more doors and has better lifetime earning potential, and directing your time and money toward that goal.
Oct 1, 15 11:19 pm ·
·
FIRST: I apologize for the length but copying certain information from my unofficial transcript from Clatsop Community College makes this lengthy. I didn't copy the whole damn thing.
The program involves historic trades crafts. First off, no college can truly guarantee placement after graduation. The program is involved in trades. I had so much of it completed as it is that I might as well complete it.
Let me ask you this, what is a bachelors degree in geography going to get me a job in architecture related jobs? Where an associates in historic preservation is architectural related. That when coupled with my CAD would be comparable to an associates of architectural technology and give me at least 1 year credit in the architectural licensing compared to say.... 6 months. My first degree was Microcomputer programming and Networking and I had a CAD certificate. Therefore, I would apply the transcript to California Architectural Board to at least lock in and secure that. When CAD and historic preservation courses which involves hands on construction trades and architecture, it secures that.
I can have that 1 year secured and I can get the transcripts off to California Architect Board within the next year or so upon receiving the degree.
As for employability, geography degree is virtually useless in getting a job in any way or form that would earn me IDP training hours. Historic preservation education... yes. Our profession engages in historic preservation not geography. If anyone hired a geography major with no architectural education, what kind of role does that person do in the firm? Is it architectural related?
For me, completing the degree is simply about finishing up something I left hanging since 2011. Therefore, finishing it concludes that open ended issue. It takes the pressure off completing the bachelors until I have more capital cash flow. My goal is actually to complete both but right now, completing that is fairly easy to get done.
Considering I have CAD knowledge and training in the historic preservation in:
Fall - 2009
COURSE TITLE INSTRUCTOR CR GRADE
BLD140-A* Print Reading for Construction L. SWERDLOFF 3 B
IT140-A* Industrial Safety S. SANDERS 1 B
IT141-A* Tool and Shop Basics H. BRISTOL 1 C
BLD104-A* Construction Math M. HINTON 3 A
BLD121-A*Construction Skills:Foundation M. ROGERS 1 A
BLD122-A*Construction Skills:Floors K. GARRISON 1 A
BLD123-A*Construction Skills:Walls K. GARRISON 1 A
BLD128-A*Construction Skills:Finish Wrk E. OVERBAY 1 A
BLD123-B*Construction Skills:Walls K. GARRISON 1 A
Winter - 2010
COURSE TITLE INSTRUCTOR CR GRADE
BLD125-A* Construction Skills:Protection A. STOPPIELLO 1 A
BLD126-A* Construction Skills:Doors/Wind K. PALO 1 A
BLD127-A* Construction Skills:Stairs E. OVERBAY 1 A
BLD128-A* Construction Skills:Finish Wrk T. KENNEDY 1 A
BLD103-A* Residential Materials/Methods K. PALO 3 B
DRF150-B* Construction Drawing J. RASKIN 3 C
BLD228-A* HPR Techniques:Finish Work K. PALO 1 A
Spring - 2010
COURSE TITLE INSTRUCTOR CR GRADE
ARCH215-A* History PacificNW Architecture J. GOODENBERGER 3 A
BLD151-A* Building Codes I-Residential J. APPLEGATE 3 A
BLD228-A* HPR Techniques:Finish Work K. PALO 1 A
BLD226-A* HPR Techniques:Doors & Windows K. PALO 1 A
BLD227-A* HPR Techniques:Stairs E. OVERBAY 1 A
BLD124-A* Construction Skills:Roofs K. GARRISON 1 A
BLD228-B* HPR Techniques:Finish Work P. CHESTNUT 1 A
Summer - 2010
COURSE TITLE INSTRUCTOR CR GRADE
BLD226-W1 HPR Techniques:Doors & Windows P. CHESTNUT 1 A
Fall - 2010
COURSE TITLE INSTRUCTOR CR GRADE
BLD221-D1 HPR Techniques:Foundations D. KLUG 1 A
BLD222-D1 HPR Techniques:Floors K. PALO 1 A
BLD223-D1 HPR Techniques:Walls K. PALO 1 A
BLD228-D1HPR Techniques:Finish Work P. CHESTNUT 1 A
BLD210-E1Historic Preservation I J. GOODENBERGER 3 A
BLD206-E1Sustainable Building A. STOPPIELLO 3 B
Winter - 2011
COURSE TITLE INSTRUCTOR CR GRADE
BLD228-D1 HPR Techniques:Blacksmithing and Historic Pres D. CURL 1 A
BLD211-E1 Historic Preservation II J.GOODENB... 3 B
BLD207-E1 Project Management C. DIMON 3 A
BLD226-D1 HPR Techniques:Anatomy of a Door E. OVERBAY 1 A
BLD227-D1HPR Techniques:Knapton Cove Stair Reconstruction T. KENNEDY 1 A
BLD226-D2HPR Techniques:Door Installation and Repair T. KENNEDY 1 A
BLD228-D2HPR Techniques:Woodwork Restoration P. CHESTNUT 1 B
Given the courses and the hands on work.
Note: I haven't listed the CAD courses and all other applicable general education courses in which I already have. Bottom line: All of these courses in the historic preservation, CAD and all the other general ed courses applicable to the subject matter encompasses a degree comparable to a degree in architectural studies, architectural technologies and other similar related degrees in the subject areas in subjects related to architecture.
Therefore, by getting it complete, I am fully securing at least one year experience equivalency. With 4 years of additional experience, I can begin ARE under California law. Then completing the Bachelor's degree while working the remaining 4-5 years after that all the while completing the ARE so I can take the CSE. Once that is done, I can do reciprocity into Washington. After that, I am in a position where I could take the M.Arch program which close to that time, I could end up taking the GRE and prepare portfolio and whatever else needed. That also depends on whether such a pursuit is needed for licensure in Oregon itself or just a matter of personal choice to pursue.
I hope I explained it clearly or thoroughly enough.
Oct 2, 15 2:45 am ·
·
I can tell you this much, no program can really guarantee employment of work. It isn't that easy. I can tell you that a number of my fellow classmates when I went into the program received jobs. Some were already employed and the program was like continuing education development enabling them the expand their role and responsibilities in the particular area. One classmate worked for the State parks/national parks service (forget which one it was). Some of the other students took courses and was mostly enrolled for the personal knowledge in historic preservation so they can do restoration work on their historic homes. Some students went on to further college. I can't discern whether they got a job afterwards.
One student was a construction contractor and in doing so got work in Washington State Parks. Another student became a window restoration contractor.
There is jobs and especially for hands on knowledge in historic preservation. I know mostly from my fellow classmates from whom I kept some degree of contact with. One fellow student went to UO and got her Master's of historic preservation and is a historic preservation consultant while also working at jobs to keep steady pay.
It is what it is. This didn't mean they got to where they were immediately after college. All of these students got to where they were in they were since graduating in June 2011 and afterwards. There are no guarantees but there are potential opportunities out there.
Oct 2, 15 3:02 am ·
·
I forgot to add, it is NCPE accredited.
Oct 2, 15 3:25 am ·
·
Ok, I'm not 100% certain if the word 'accreditation' is perfect but essentially NCPE to some sort of degree 'accredits' the various programs to some extent. The term might not be perfect but not many better words to think of.
Yes, but it's paywalled for me. It's ok though, and thank you for the effort, as I got to the full article via WSJ's FB page.
The comments are of course ridiculous, but they're suited to the entire article which is just more hysterical whining plus boring statistics incorrectly compared.
Example: he says lawyers get to practice after only 3 years of school, while architects have to go for a minimum of FIVE!!! Uh, yea, you can't start law school straight out of high school. Nice try, tho.
Doesn't do anything to change my essential attitude: the option to take a more practical-based BArch curriculum should exist and be defined as such, but we also need the academic model of a Master's degree.
(Example of typical WSJ commenter: "The ONLY reason licensing exists is to limit the free market!!!!" Sure, bro, enjoy your free-market surgery being offered in your neighbor's garage.)
the bar is maybe 9 years instead of 14, if you get a 4 year degree, plus 3 for law school, plus take a year of experience/studying before you sit for the bar.
i would like to think archinect has helped with the 20% decline in first-year enrollment. makes me feel like i've accomplished something today.
not going to beat that the rest of the day, so i suppose it's time to go home.
The key is the amount of money that can be borrowed for a Master's program is not capped so the schools can and do charge more, a lot more, for the Master's programs. If the schools really were there to serve their students they would offer a three-year track toward an undergraduate degree in architecture for those students who already have one college degree. Also some state has got to break the NCARB monopoly. One state needs to say "OK, if you have a degree from an accredited architectural school and work for two years in an architectural office under the supervision of a registered architect you can take the test, OUR TEST, and upon completion you will be a registered architect in this state."
Licensing for architects was originally implemented to stifle competition. If you can give me evidence (or even a strong opinion based on supporting evidence) that the exam and the degree requirement protect HSW, then I will start to reconsider the common analogy people try to make between licensing for Architects and Doctors. As it is, I have learned all of my practical knowledge on the job.
"But wait, SneakyPete," you might say, "It simply sounds as if you either went to a university who didn't do its job or you simply didn't learn what you're supposed to there."
That's interesting considering the school I attended was accredited by the same folks who would assure you the HSW is protected, in part, by the degree which taught me about Heidegger but not how to detail worth a damn.
And the exam asks you to memorize the code that changes every two years (and is adopted in different phases and in differing amounts depending on jurisdiction) as well as utilize CAD technology that doesn't even RESEMBLE what is used in the working world. How, exactly, does that protect HSW? How does that do ANYTHING except test your ability to TAKE TESTS?
And I don't think the bar exists because there's some sort of bodily danger inherent in going to court with a lack of legal education or knowledge.
The lawyers have had their heads handed to them on a platter. Even Ivy League law graduates are having a very hard time getting jobs. Only some forms of engineering, finance, and the medical field seem safe now.
"if we can assume that revit and other technologies allow buildings to be drawn faster than ever before"
If we assume that Revit and other technologies allow for a reduction in the allotted time for the proper design of buildings, we are doing ourselves harm. Buildings are not getting any less complex, and there are more systems than ever to figure out. While Revit and other technologies assist in design, coordination, and documentation, the belief that they somehow speed up the time consuming process of building design will be fatal to our profession.
To be clear, I agree with your conclusion.
There is more to Architecture than building a box that doesn't leak. (If this wasn't what you were getting at, please elaborate)
Sneaky: "There is more to Architecture than building a box that doesn't leak."
True, but if that box does leak -- which happens all too often -- users and owners are not going to give any credibility whatsoever to our efforts at making 'architecture'.
Here’s what it takes to be a licensed architect – Pass the exam. Regardless if you’re the world’s greatest or the world’s worst the only “test” is the exam. If there wasn’t collusion with the educational system then why not just let people take the exam, if they are willing to cover the cost? Not saying that some do not need school, but for those who’ve “got-it” let them past “Go”.
I've never used revit for full construction documents, but it seems like it should be faster. Not sure that it really is in practice.
I do think that we pretty much agree on where the value in architecture is. There are enough problems in buildings with idiot contractors and not so great architects, the bar doesn't need to be any lower.
I think the "why" is a pretty important question and someone with no knowledge of theory and history can't answer. I can barely give a coherent answer most of the time as it is.
I have no problems with NCARB - I've only had good experiences when I've had to call, little to no wait time, knowledgeable people on the other end. My only real complaint is the testing vignette software, which is due to be replaced soon.
passing the exam isn't enough to become an architect in any jurisdiction i've worked in. at least not that i know of. the test is just one part of series of qualifications required.
We have building codes to protect HSW. The current hurdles to licensure do little to guarantee (or even attempt to guarantee) they are followed. So why do the hurdles exist?
I was talking with a lawyer friend recently and we were comparing the process of getting our respective credentials. Apparently (correct me if I'm wrong here), the legal profession has no counterpart to NCARB. If you're licensed to practice law in State A, then getting reciprocal registration in State B is usually a very difficult process. Some states have reciprocity agreements with neighboring states, but the entire process sounds like an incredible pain in the ass and there's no real national standard. Between that scenario and NCARB, I'll take NCARB any day.
For the most part, I've found NCARB to be very responsive and easy to deal with, and all my score reports were posted within two weeks of my exam date. (And the fees didn't even bother me that much, since my employer reimbursed them all for me. This is a pretty standard benefit at most mid-sized and larger firms.)
This isn't to say the current licensing process for architects is infallible, but IMO the people who think architectural training should be dumbed down to the level of a trade school certification are the people who need to be kept from ever calling themselves architects.
Thread Central
Donna - you run out of bourbon?
PWI is generally not a good idea. There should be a breathalyzer for posting.
Breathalyzers can be beaten by raccoons, tho.
Hear about the “Foul ball architect”? An architect had 3 foul balls come right at him at Yankee Stadium and he couldn’t catch any of them – why doesn’t that surprise me.
https://youtu.be/zR03rcP8cps
alright folks chicago biennial is gearing up, and here's a list of must/maybe do's...
http://chicago.curbed.com/archives/2015/09/23/curbed-guide-to-the-chicago-architecture-biennial.php
personally, i'm planning on attending Tigerman's lectures because he's at such a "zero fucks given" stage in his life, that he does come up with some hilarious albeit jaded and cynical one liners...
LOL! Carrera, we want him on the team. LOL!
Can someone identify this architect.
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/will-smith/20/a8a/59a
If he isn't licensed, yet, AIANY should honor him with an Honorary AIA pin.
@Donna, both? Though I feel like I would give same answer even if I was posing question...
Donna, 10 years ago you didn't post under your real name, right? That should make some difference!
Although I feel like the ratio of off-topic humor to complaints about licensing / stupid questions / quotidian stuff used to be better (higher). I assume the recession culled most of the good-humored people.
ivorykeyboard, pretty sure Tigerman has been a zero-fucks-given guy for the entirety of his adult life. Which makes him fun to listen to - but seems to impact his work too.
Thanks for posting that, ivorykeyboard! I thought I was going up this weekend but now I can't, too overscheduled. I'll get up there at some point and hopefully just go see pavilions etc. rather than going to lectures - I'll likely have my son with me and while I *will* drag him along to see "boring architecture" (his term) I don't think I can make him sit through a lecture, too hard for the kid. He likes to move.
^ Donna, same thing with my wife... I don't know if I can afford the necessary candy & chocolate bribe to get her to join.
With that said, I did see Alvin Huang from Synthesis Design lecture recently and quite enjoyed it. I remember him getting some flack on these boards when his office had a post on their Volvo charging station.
The “catcher” works for Richard Meier.
Hey NCARB, instead of spending cash sending people all over the country to justify your bullshit requirements and spending cash on a LEED Platinum office on K Street, how about using some to pay for a REAL vignette software graded by REAL people that resembles REAL life so I don't have to be pissed off that I failed your idiotic test due to your obtuse bullshit SOFTWARE?
Oh, right. You don't give a fuck about the profession, you just pretend to because it puts cash in your coffers.
^Learning how things work is a gradual process.
You got that right.
Night Market, Frankford & Girard, tonite!
"fluid spatial flow" ZH
"spatial flowing space" DS
@midlander I don't doubt it, but i'll admit I was fairly insulated to the Chicago architectural scene before moving here, so I wasn't familiar with King Stanley's musings. Here's a classic:
"What do you think of the recent redo of the Mies-designed IBM tower by—
[Interrupts:] Hate it. It’s shit."
http://www.chicagomag.com/arts-culture/October-2013/22-Questions-for-Stanley-Tigerman/
I am incidentally touring people around a certain space in Chicago for the open house day, but if i tell you guys which i'll blow my cover. @Donna - the biennial extends beyond this weekend! It goes til January I believe.
Gruen,
Thanks.
So what if I may choose to use cyanotype or diazo process for preparing official deliverables to clients for example?
So what if I partner with an architect in connection with my business? Ideally, direct in-person contact from time to time. This isn't necessarily needed if sufficient alternate means are made. When it gets down to stamping plans, it is important that the architect stamping has been involved throughout the process. Documenting that is important and even if there isn't an audit, it is important to have. Some types of work which really doesn't need an architect stamp is still valid for work. It isn't like I would let the architect rubber stamp. After all, if I convert my sole-proprietorship into a partnership of some kind or such and register my business as a registered professional design firm, as a proprietor, I would be bound to the code of conduct for Washington projects as if I was a licensed architect (essentially to extent applicable... of course). So what? It is a way to the end goal. I can't employ an architect as a conventional employee and get the IDP/etc. If the architect is a business partner, I can because the architect would be a co-owner and therefore not a subordinate to me per se. Being of equal rank with him being put in charge of services constituting the practice of architecture or otherwise bearing the architect stamp is beneficial to me. I can't fire a co-owner. It doesn't work that way. A partnership can be dissolved but that defeats any premise of getting the required hours.
Under California law, independent practice refers to work not involving an architect having supervision and control. Such as independent building design practice. That means, my independent building design experience or any hours I spend working on projects not involving an architect would not count. I know that.
So what's the beef? What's the issue? Firms in California and firms in Washington and even in Oregon are already incorporating tools that involve remote contact. Firms are already embracing that.
Boards are already moving past interpretations from 1919. Also, back then the whole process of producing work is different. So what's the issue, precisely?
Are they really wanting to employ me to their firm?
*pause*
balkins, I hope you're far away from that umpqua community college, this country is seriously mentally ill.....
Bottom line:
If one wants to give help, do so with the "jackassery".
I am looking at ways to move forward in at least initial licensure where I am.
JLC-1, I just getting to your post.
Well, I'm in Astoria so it is a good thing I am not there. It is time the news media learns to quit giving attention to such dumb fucks. I agree, the country has mental illness problems. I am wondering if everyone in the country needs to undergo a mandatory psychological evaluation and where needed, get treatment.
I sure hope not.
Off from that topic, I'll be looking at finishing the rest of my Associates degree in Historic preservation at Clatsop Community College while I am here which would cost around $900 in tuition and fees and a budget of maybe $1,500 so as to cover any books and supplies. Ideally, $2000 so I can have food at campus as well.
This way, that is officially completed. I still have the Bachelor's to complete but that is more expensive. The main courses I need to take is CWE work experience for historic preservation and a directed projects project which I would probably work it together.
I haven't given up on the the Bachelor's degree. Just that it needs more money to finish it. I was close to finishing it in the first place. Any thoughts or ideas for projects along the line that also goes along with my building design (or architectural if you really want to call it that) and historic preservation background. It should be something that will go into the work sufficiently.
I like to wrap it up without it being still open ended. For me, it is a personal thing to complete degrees. As a matter of fact, it could very well help in me in California architectural licensing when coupled with my CAD certificate to secure at least a 1 year experience on the track.
All the while, I am working also on the business end, as well.
Richard Balkins what is an associate degree in historic preservation from a community college likely to do for you? Does your school's career office publish rates of employment and salaries in the field after graduation with that degree? Do they offer guaranteed placement in the field after graduation? If not you might consider whether the $1500 to $2000 would be better saved and added to the nest egg to finish your BA, and the time that would be spent in the community college courses would be better put toward earning hours. I recommend choosing the shortest route to the degree that will open more doors and has better lifetime earning potential, and directing your time and money toward that goal.
FIRST: I apologize for the length but copying certain information from my unofficial transcript from Clatsop Community College makes this lengthy. I didn't copy the whole damn thing.
The program involves historic trades crafts. First off, no college can truly guarantee placement after graduation. The program is involved in trades. I had so much of it completed as it is that I might as well complete it.
Let me ask you this, what is a bachelors degree in geography going to get me a job in architecture related jobs? Where an associates in historic preservation is architectural related. That when coupled with my CAD would be comparable to an associates of architectural technology and give me at least 1 year credit in the architectural licensing compared to say.... 6 months. My first degree was Microcomputer programming and Networking and I had a CAD certificate. Therefore, I would apply the transcript to California Architectural Board to at least lock in and secure that. When CAD and historic preservation courses which involves hands on construction trades and architecture, it secures that.
I can have that 1 year secured and I can get the transcripts off to California Architect Board within the next year or so upon receiving the degree.
As for employability, geography degree is virtually useless in getting a job in any way or form that would earn me IDP training hours. Historic preservation education... yes. Our profession engages in historic preservation not geography. If anyone hired a geography major with no architectural education, what kind of role does that person do in the firm? Is it architectural related?
For me, completing the degree is simply about finishing up something I left hanging since 2011. Therefore, finishing it concludes that open ended issue. It takes the pressure off completing the bachelors until I have more capital cash flow. My goal is actually to complete both but right now, completing that is fairly easy to get done.
Considering I have CAD knowledge and training in the historic preservation in:
Fall - 2009
COURSE TITLE INSTRUCTOR CR GRADE
BLD140-A* Print Reading for Construction L. SWERDLOFF 3 B
IT140-A* Industrial Safety S. SANDERS 1 B
IT141-A* Tool and Shop Basics H. BRISTOL 1 C
BLD104-A* Construction Math M. HINTON 3 A
BLD121-A*Construction Skills:Foundation M. ROGERS 1 A
BLD122-A*Construction Skills:Floors K. GARRISON 1 A
BLD123-A*Construction Skills:Walls K. GARRISON 1 A
BLD128-A*Construction Skills:Finish Wrk E. OVERBAY 1 A
BLD123-B*Construction Skills:Walls K. GARRISON 1 A
Winter - 2010
COURSE TITLE INSTRUCTOR CR GRADE
BLD125-A* Construction Skills:Protection A. STOPPIELLO 1 A
BLD126-A* Construction Skills:Doors/Wind K. PALO 1 A
BLD127-A* Construction Skills:Stairs E. OVERBAY 1 A
BLD128-A* Construction Skills:Finish Wrk T. KENNEDY 1 A
BLD103-A* Residential Materials/Methods K. PALO 3 B
DRF150-B* Construction Drawing J. RASKIN 3 C
BLD228-A* HPR Techniques:Finish Work K. PALO 1 A
Spring - 2010
COURSE TITLE INSTRUCTOR CR GRADE
ARCH215-A* History PacificNW Architecture J. GOODENBERGER 3 A
BLD151-A* Building Codes I-Residential J. APPLEGATE 3 A
BLD228-A* HPR Techniques:Finish Work K. PALO 1 A
BLD226-A* HPR Techniques:Doors & Windows K. PALO 1 A
BLD227-A* HPR Techniques:Stairs E. OVERBAY 1 A
BLD124-A* Construction Skills:Roofs K. GARRISON 1 A
BLD228-B* HPR Techniques:Finish Work P. CHESTNUT 1 A
Summer - 2010
COURSE TITLE INSTRUCTOR CR GRADE
BLD226-W1 HPR Techniques:Doors & Windows P. CHESTNUT 1 A
Fall - 2010
COURSE TITLE INSTRUCTOR CR GRADE
BLD221-D1 HPR Techniques:Foundations D. KLUG 1 A
BLD222-D1 HPR Techniques:Floors K. PALO 1 A
BLD223-D1 HPR Techniques:Walls K. PALO 1 A
BLD228-D1HPR Techniques:Finish Work P. CHESTNUT 1 A
BLD210-E1Historic Preservation I J. GOODENBERGER 3 A
BLD206-E1Sustainable Building A. STOPPIELLO 3 B
Winter - 2011
COURSE TITLE INSTRUCTOR CR GRADE
BLD228-D1 HPR Techniques:Blacksmithing and Historic Pres D. CURL 1 A
BLD211-E1 Historic Preservation II J.GOODENB... 3 B
BLD207-E1 Project Management C. DIMON 3 A
BLD226-D1 HPR Techniques:Anatomy of a Door E. OVERBAY 1 A
BLD227-D1HPR Techniques:Knapton Cove Stair Reconstruction T. KENNEDY 1 A
BLD226-D2HPR Techniques:Door Installation and Repair T. KENNEDY 1 A
BLD228-D2HPR Techniques:Woodwork Restoration P. CHESTNUT 1 B
Given the courses and the hands on work.
Note: I haven't listed the CAD courses and all other applicable general education courses in which I already have. Bottom line: All of these courses in the historic preservation, CAD and all the other general ed courses applicable to the subject matter encompasses a degree comparable to a degree in architectural studies, architectural technologies and other similar related degrees in the subject areas in subjects related to architecture.
Therefore, by getting it complete, I am fully securing at least one year experience equivalency. With 4 years of additional experience, I can begin ARE under California law. Then completing the Bachelor's degree while working the remaining 4-5 years after that all the while completing the ARE so I can take the CSE. Once that is done, I can do reciprocity into Washington. After that, I am in a position where I could take the M.Arch program which close to that time, I could end up taking the GRE and prepare portfolio and whatever else needed. That also depends on whether such a pursuit is needed for licensure in Oregon itself or just a matter of personal choice to pursue.
I hope I explained it clearly or thoroughly enough.
I can tell you this much, no program can really guarantee employment of work. It isn't that easy. I can tell you that a number of my fellow classmates when I went into the program received jobs. Some were already employed and the program was like continuing education development enabling them the expand their role and responsibilities in the particular area. One classmate worked for the State parks/national parks service (forget which one it was). Some of the other students took courses and was mostly enrolled for the personal knowledge in historic preservation so they can do restoration work on their historic homes. Some students went on to further college. I can't discern whether they got a job afterwards.
One student was a construction contractor and in doing so got work in Washington State Parks. Another student became a window restoration contractor.
There is jobs and especially for hands on knowledge in historic preservation. I know mostly from my fellow classmates from whom I kept some degree of contact with. One fellow student went to UO and got her Master's of historic preservation and is a historic preservation consultant while also working at jobs to keep steady pay.
It is what it is. This didn't mean they got to where they were immediately after college. All of these students got to where they were in they were since graduating in June 2011 and afterwards. There are no guarantees but there are potential opportunities out there.
I forgot to add, it is NCPE accredited.
Ok, I'm not 100% certain if the word 'accreditation' is perfect but essentially NCPE to some sort of degree 'accredits' the various programs to some extent. The term might not be perfect but not many better words to think of.
Does anyone have a free link to that Wall Street Journal article on gutting architecture licensing?
http://www.wsj.com/articles/architect-licensing-needs-a-gut-rehab-1443569103
is it this? The comment section is the best part.
it seems if you link it from google, it works better than if you directly click the link
usually these links are only for being a smartass, but this time it's only partially to be a smartass
http://bfy.tw/25hD
edit, this actually doesn't work. i'll try something else
edited again. this seems to work, if you click the top link
http://www.google.com/webhp?nord=1#safe=off&nord=1&q=Architect+Licensing+Needs+a+Gut+Rehab
Yes, but it's paywalled for me. It's ok though, and thank you for the effort, as I got to the full article via WSJ's FB page.
The comments are of course ridiculous, but they're suited to the entire article which is just more hysterical whining plus boring statistics incorrectly compared.
Example: he says lawyers get to practice after only 3 years of school, while architects have to go for a minimum of FIVE!!! Uh, yea, you can't start law school straight out of high school. Nice try, tho.
Doesn't do anything to change my essential attitude: the option to take a more practical-based BArch curriculum should exist and be defined as such, but we also need the academic model of a Master's degree.
(Example of typical WSJ commenter: "The ONLY reason licensing exists is to limit the free market!!!!" Sure, bro, enjoy your free-market surgery being offered in your neighbor's garage.)
(Yes, curt, your second link did work for me.)
the bar is maybe 9 years instead of 14, if you get a 4 year degree, plus 3 for law school, plus take a year of experience/studying before you sit for the bar.
i would like to think archinect has helped with the 20% decline in first-year enrollment. makes me feel like i've accomplished something today.
not going to beat that the rest of the day, so i suppose it's time to go home.
The key is the amount of money that can be borrowed for a Master's program is not capped so the schools can and do charge more, a lot more, for the Master's programs. If the schools really were there to serve their students they would offer a three-year track toward an undergraduate degree in architecture for those students who already have one college degree. Also some state has got to break the NCARB monopoly. One state needs to say "OK, if you have a degree from an accredited architectural school and work for two years in an architectural office under the supervision of a registered architect you can take the test, OUR TEST, and upon completion you will be a registered architect in this state."
Licensing for architects was originally implemented to stifle competition. If you can give me evidence (or even a strong opinion based on supporting evidence) that the exam and the degree requirement protect HSW, then I will start to reconsider the common analogy people try to make between licensing for Architects and Doctors. As it is, I have learned all of my practical knowledge on the job.
"But wait, SneakyPete," you might say, "It simply sounds as if you either went to a university who didn't do its job or you simply didn't learn what you're supposed to there."
That's interesting considering the school I attended was accredited by the same folks who would assure you the HSW is protected, in part, by the degree which taught me about Heidegger but not how to detail worth a damn.
And the exam asks you to memorize the code that changes every two years (and is adopted in different phases and in differing amounts depending on jurisdiction) as well as utilize CAD technology that doesn't even RESEMBLE what is used in the working world. How, exactly, does that protect HSW? How does that do ANYTHING except test your ability to TAKE TESTS?
And I don't think the bar exists because there's some sort of bodily danger inherent in going to court with a lack of legal education or knowledge.
Great stuff, Sneaky Pete.
As to the legal profession, they are constantly talking about de-regulating the profession...
The lawyers have had their heads handed to them on a platter. Even Ivy League law graduates are having a very hard time getting jobs. Only some forms of engineering, finance, and the medical field seem safe now.
Just saw an article about medical students staging demonstrations for single payer.
I understand that a 20% decline in enrollment is pretty bad for universities, but is it bad for society?
I'm not sure that it makes a difference if we can assume that revit and other technologies allow buildings to be drawn faster than ever before.
It isn't very clear what the author is advocating, a "tech degree" without the history, theory, and design classes?
If instituted, I think we'd find out real fast how valuable the rest of the world thinks those classes are.
"if we can assume that revit and other technologies allow buildings to be drawn faster than ever before"
If we assume that Revit and other technologies allow for a reduction in the allotted time for the proper design of buildings, we are doing ourselves harm. Buildings are not getting any less complex, and there are more systems than ever to figure out. While Revit and other technologies assist in design, coordination, and documentation, the belief that they somehow speed up the time consuming process of building design will be fatal to our profession.
To be clear, I agree with your conclusion.
There is more to Architecture than building a box that doesn't leak. (If this wasn't what you were getting at, please elaborate)
Sneaky: "There is more to Architecture than building a box that doesn't leak."
True, but if that box does leak -- which happens all too often -- users and owners are not going to give any credibility whatsoever to our efforts at making 'architecture'.
Here’s what it takes to be a licensed architect – Pass the exam. Regardless if you’re the world’s greatest or the world’s worst the only “test” is the exam. If there wasn’t collusion with the educational system then why not just let people take the exam, if they are willing to cover the cost? Not saying that some do not need school, but for those who’ve “got-it” let them past “Go”.
I've never used revit for full construction documents, but it seems like it should be faster. Not sure that it really is in practice.
I do think that we pretty much agree on where the value in architecture is. There are enough problems in buildings with idiot contractors and not so great architects, the bar doesn't need to be any lower.
I think the "why" is a pretty important question and someone with no knowledge of theory and history can't answer. I can barely give a coherent answer most of the time as it is.
I have no problems with NCARB - I've only had good experiences when I've had to call, little to no wait time, knowledgeable people on the other end. My only real complaint is the testing vignette software, which is due to be replaced soon.
Not that I'm happy with the fees either
passing the exam isn't enough to become an architect in any jurisdiction i've worked in. at least not that i know of. the test is just one part of series of qualifications required.
the test doesn't test experience.
We have building codes to protect HSW. The current hurdles to licensure do little to guarantee (or even attempt to guarantee) they are followed. So why do the hurdles exist?
I was talking with a lawyer friend recently and we were comparing the process of getting our respective credentials. Apparently (correct me if I'm wrong here), the legal profession has no counterpart to NCARB. If you're licensed to practice law in State A, then getting reciprocal registration in State B is usually a very difficult process. Some states have reciprocity agreements with neighboring states, but the entire process sounds like an incredible pain in the ass and there's no real national standard. Between that scenario and NCARB, I'll take NCARB any day.
For the most part, I've found NCARB to be very responsive and easy to deal with, and all my score reports were posted within two weeks of my exam date. (And the fees didn't even bother me that much, since my employer reimbursed them all for me. This is a pretty standard benefit at most mid-sized and larger firms.)
This isn't to say the current licensing process for architects is infallible, but IMO the people who think architectural training should be dumbed down to the level of a trade school certification are the people who need to be kept from ever calling themselves architects.
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