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MVRDV Towers in Korea - how horrible is this design?

bcoll11

Oh, come on. MVRDV aren't some kind of terrorist agenda group, they're a prominent design group who does interesting work. If this had been built pre 9/11 the discussion would be about the unique bridging conditions between two towers.

Dec 11, 11 3:51 pm  · 
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sameolddoctor

It is pretty obvious that they are making a jab at the Twin Towers. They will even justify it with some Dutch crap about memory etc. It will never get built anyways.

Dec 11, 11 3:59 pm  · 
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Archinect

There are a lot of comments about this already here and here.

Dec 11, 11 4:05 pm  · 
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zonker

There are serious load factors from the pronounced protrusions that make this an inviting target for terrorists - all they have to do, is to hit just below the protrusions, start a huge fire that weakens the the structure, and down they go. then it's off to war again...

Dec 11, 11 4:15 pm  · 
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b3tadine[sutures]

really? 9-11? really? i took a shit today that looked strangely like auschwitz, i should've never had the kedem grape juice...

Dec 11, 11 4:41 pm  · 
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design

the buildings remind me of the warts i have growing on my double cock...im deeply offended..

Dec 11, 11 6:39 pm  · 
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design

9/11 was an inside job, instead of feeling offended by the imagery of Dutch architects, Americans should demand answers from their own governent

Dec 11, 11 6:42 pm  · 
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b3tadine[sutures]

inside job, yeah, inside job and mvrdv - it's a conspiracy i tells ya!!

Dec 11, 11 7:20 pm  · 
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b3tadine[sutures]

even zinn and chomsky know what you spout is akin to anal rape.

 

Dec 11, 11 7:22 pm  · 
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design

please note that MVRDV was not part of the inside job. Stray away from convoluted humor which clouds the facts

Dec 11, 11 8:13 pm  · 
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b3tadine[sutures]

"convoluted humor"? did you type that with a straight face?

Dec 12, 11 7:46 pm  · 
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oe

worst thread ever.

Dec 12, 11 8:10 pm  · 
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drums please, Fab?

come on, we can do worse than this ..

Dec 12, 11 8:23 pm  · 
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oe

haha

Dec 12, 11 8:46 pm  · 
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Beepbeep

The people who jumped at MVRDV are idiots. so  anytime a design has two towers dumb-ass Americans are going to jump at them about being terrorists this is why half the world hates our country. I served in the military and spent a fun year in sandbox defending it, people need to relax not everything has to to do with 911 its beginning to become ridiculous.

Dec 12, 11 11:13 pm  · 
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bcoll11

I'm pretty sure nobody is claiming that MVRDV are terrorists. The issue is, I looked at the renderings, and the 1st picture that popped into my head is the WTC attack...and I'm pretty sure that's a common reaction. If I design a building that looks like a phallus with balls, or a huge swastika, you'd think I was an idiot for not recognizing it. I have the same reaction to this building.

 

Dec 13, 11 1:48 am  · 
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b3tadine[sutures]

Well, then you're part of the problem, hence an idiot.

Dec 13, 11 6:15 am  · 
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trace™

Huh, plenty of "phallus with balls" out there.

 

It does look like WTC (did you see the photo comparison with the one with the smoke/fire? Looks like a basic abstraction).  Personally, I don't care, it is inline with much of their work.

Personally, I would have at least made it asymmetrical.  All they had to do was make one tower taller and the comparison would have died.

Dec 13, 11 8:36 am  · 
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MixmasterFestus

(Florida State Capitol.)

These things aren't always obvious until someone points them out.  If I had a nickel for every time an accidental swastika showed up in early design courses, I might be able to afford a nice McMeal. 

I actually kind of like the design, WTC references aside.  The 'cloud' part looks full of interesting spaces.

Dec 13, 11 9:24 am  · 
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lletdownl

So, a few facts in here for those of you worried about the twin towers....

 

first of all this is a part of a HUGE masterplan done by liebeskind in seoul... you can check out a site plan here...

 

http://www.dreamhub21.com/eng/masterplan/archipelago02.asp

 

notice that mvrdv, along with several other offices, are doing towers confined to a particular footprint.  Also notice that those footprints are actually set in pairs with small footprints.

 

Dec 13, 11 9:37 am  · 
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drums please, Fab?

notice that mvrdv, along with several other offices, are doing towers confined to a particular footprint.  Also notice that those footprints are actually set in pairs with small footprints.

which proves you can design twin towers that do not evoke 9/11 imagery

Dec 13, 11 11:40 am  · 
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lletdownl

I don't understand why a private developer and architect thousands of miles away, catering to SOUTH KOREANS, not AMERICANS, has to be at all concerned with evoking 9/11 imagery.  

 

Id like to know if a single non american's initial reaction was... 

 

"OH! Im offended by this buildings likeness to the 9/11 attacks"

 

im an american btw, and i never once had that thought until i read it on the blogs... that was the most common reaction ive come across among my friends as well.

Dec 13, 11 12:05 pm  · 
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drums please, Fab?

well the developer and architect don't have to be concerned with evoking 9/11 imagery.  but that's what this building is doing (whether the intent is there or not).  so now that it's out there, it's up to the developer and architect to decide what to do.

those MVRDV guys are good, smart designers.  i'm confident they can come up with a cloud solution that mitigates the 9/11 imagery if they want to be tasteful and sensitive about this situation.

Dec 13, 11 12:28 pm  · 
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lletdownl

supposedly the thing will be built as is... i understand what your saying FRaC, but i still dont see why there is any solution to be mitigated.  

Why does it matter that some people see this tower as a reference to 9/11?  

 

Dec 13, 11 12:37 pm  · 
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drums please, Fab?

Why does it matter that some people see this tower as a reference to 9/11? 

because architecturally representing the moment of the 9/11 attacks is a disgusting and horrific source for design inspiration

Dec 13, 11 1:15 pm  · 
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I'm not offended as an American, I'm offended as an Architect...those towers are fugly.

Dec 13, 11 2:01 pm  · 
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drums please, Fab?

and this offends you as a jewish person?

no, it offends me as a comedian!

Dec 13, 11 2:12 pm  · 
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juan moment

WTC imagery aside, wouldn't there be extreme wind issues on those terraces?  Looking at the rendering I visualize all of those tree planters being blown over.  Maybe it would be a better place for a wind turbine than inhabitable park like spaces.

Dec 13, 11 2:14 pm  · 
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FRaC...exactly.

Dec 13, 11 2:20 pm  · 
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lletdownl

OOOOOOooooh ok... so you believe MVRDV intentionally designed towers which would invoke imagery of the 9/11 towers getting hit?  well if you believe that i understand why youd be offended, that would be pulp and disrespectful to the most staunch MVRDV appologist...

 

that being said... believing MVRDV would intentionally design a tower to look like the WTC being blown up is delusional.  Perhaps remembering that not all earthlings are americans would be helpful.

Dec 13, 11 2:40 pm  · 
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drums please, Fab?

from the article in the first post

And in what could be seen as a contradiction to the company’s statement, MVRDV spokesman Jan Knikker told Dutch-language newspaper Algemeen Dagblad that the link to 9/11 has in fact been made.

'I must admit that we also thought of September 11, 2001,' he says, in a translation of an article on Friday from Dutch to English. 'But it is not intended association with the attacks.'

Dec 13, 11 2:56 pm  · 
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On the fence

You mean like this?

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2007/09/26/us_navy_building_looks_like_a_swastika

Sometimes people design things without seeing it clearly.

Dec 13, 11 3:08 pm  · 
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x-jla

Why does it matter that some people see this tower as a reference to 9/11? 

Because 911 was a human tradgedy not just an American tragedy.  A building of such a public urban nature should evoke fellings of inspiration for the people of the city not feelings of fear and sadness, and therefore it fails as a piece of  urban architecture whether they noticed it or not. 

And I would bet a million dollars if I had it that someone in the office noticed the similarities! 

Dec 13, 11 4:53 pm  · 
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b3tadine[sutures]

I'm telling you, I took a crap that looked like a concentration camp! You so called architects are bunch of tea-party, birthers drinking too much of the cheap shit, one week too early....dullards.

Dec 13, 11 5:18 pm  · 
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x-jla

I'm telling you, I took a crap that looked like a concentration camp! You so called architects are bunch of tea-party, birthers drinking too much of the cheap shit, one week too early....dullards.

I'm far from all those things you mention, but your crap was in a toilet I hope not in the city in public view right?  Also to note, I was 100% in support of the mosque in NY that stirred up all the debate a few months ago so I am not saying that if something offends people it should be stopped.  I am all for any type of free expression regardless of how offensive it may be (ex: a picture of the pope making love to justin bieber) but this is not about offending people its about making people who live near it feel uneasy and affecting the quality of a great city with the imposition of building that evokes imagery of a terrible disaster.  I love their work but this one is a big fail!

Dec 13, 11 5:31 pm  · 
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drums please, Fab?

and it's fugly

Dec 13, 11 6:00 pm  · 
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sameolddoctor

This is going to be interesting. If MVRDV does not reconcile this design to not effect sentiment, they are going to have a hard time getting any commission in the US. On top of everything, the design is a stupid one-liner.

Dec 13, 11 6:26 pm  · 
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b3tadine[sutures]

Don't live near it assmunch. For fucks sake, is this architecture 101? Go look back at the early rumminations on the design possibilities for the WTC site, the Morphosis team in particular, that project looked like collapsing buildings. The fucking memorial is two holes in the ground! If this building project were clad in dark bronze, and the fucking rendered view was a birds-eye perspective none of dilettantes would be talking shit. As for it being fugly? It's an idea, a drawing, not a completed building, act like you understand what it means to go through architecture school, instead of faking it for a change.

Dec 14, 11 12:10 am  · 
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bcoll11

b3tadine[sutures]: it looks like you're in need of the architecture lesson...it's the scale, shape, and orientation of the MVRDV buildings that make you think of the WTC. Combine that with the "cloud" being placed at nearly the same point at the WTC impact, and it conjures up the disturbing image. You can clad it with anything, and it'll still be perceived the same way. 

Dec 14, 11 5:36 pm  · 
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b3tadine[sutures]

there were two strikes at the towers, each happening at different locations. it conjures up an image in your mind, because you have limited visual capacities, and are stuck in an era that is 10 years past. move on dilettante.

as for scale? clearly you have a problem with that: this project 300 meters at 60 floors, the WTC 417 at 110 floors.

and, as the image below shows, this hardly resembles a crumbling WTC. you fox news/tea party/conspiracy idiots; read any political persuasion, can go screw.

 

Dec 15, 11 9:15 am  · 
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drums please, Fab?

beta's right that it doesn't literally resemble a 'crumbling wtc'.  the wtc attack was more cloud-like in that the 'cloud' part in the attacks did not appear as the same material as the towers.

but since mvrdv makes their 'cloud' as parts of the tower pushing out the design, in a way, is conceptually more representational of the wtc attack in that we remember the attack as the tower exploding outward.

the aerial view of mvrdv's design doesn't make that link as much as the view from the ground (where everyone will see this project).  this goes back to fence's 'swastika' example where we don't view a completed building from google earth .. we look at it from the street.  take that swastika building and rotate it vertically and believe me, you'll get plenty of outrage.

as i wrote above i think mvrdv could do a better 'cloud' that would, in the end, be better architecture and also not conjure up the wtc freeze-frame moment.

and what beta failed to learn in architecture school was when you design something it's doing a bunch of stuff that you intend but it's also doing a whole bunch of other stuff you're not even aware of.  beta blames this on '... fox news/tea party/conspiracy idiots' but in reality mvrdv's design is a crumbling wtc tower as well as a cloud as well as an 'H' as well as machu picchu as well as ... etc. etc. blah blah blah

Dec 15, 11 11:02 am  · 
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b3tadine[sutures]

your impression/feelings about my idea is irrelevant to me, and is about as "nanny state" thinking as i could possibly imagine. and for you genuflecting douche bags that worship at the hip of that ragging fake ass author/philosopher Ayn Rand, and i dare say "c-word" for you sensitive types, i can't imagine the horror you must have found, when her beloved terrorist...err hero protagonist blows up "his" buildings...

the minute i give a shit what you - the public - care about my ideas, is the minute the terrorists win.

omg, am i howard roark now...time to o blow something up.

Dec 15, 11 11:14 am  · 
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drums please, Fab?

beta, you okay, man?

Dec 15, 11 1:19 pm  · 
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design

beta is fundamentally a jingoist

Dec 17, 11 12:40 am  · 
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b3tadine[sutures]

that's okay, cowabunga is one of those tin hat idiots, chasing unicorns and little fairies....you grassy knoller types...are such easy targets. dolt.

Dec 17, 11 2:43 am  · 
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did anyone notice that the museum that preston scott cohen added on to in tel aviv (published in arch record recently) is also shaped like a swastika? an arts building in israel built in the 70s. who cares? a swastika is an ancient symbol - any opportunity to reclaim its old meanings should be welcomed. 

the renderings that mvrdv released were unfortunate in that they made this building appear to be isolated, strengthening the potential association with the wtc. in fact, i doubt the real project would be perceived that way, occupying its place in a field of towers as illustrated in the master plan. maybe they could have shown the thing in a context suggesting it as part of an overall tower-scape. if you imagine it a grouping made up of things like libeskind's swoopy centerpiece, the impact would be much less. 

part of the recognition factor with the wtc is that they were the biggest, most isolated objects in the skyline and that they stood out so dramatically. it's why they were a target, but also why their destruction was able to yield such dramatic images. 

mvrdv did themselves a disservice. now they probably will not be able to build the project as originally designed. if they had gotten it built, it would possibly not have been an issue. 

Dec 18, 11 8:19 am  · 
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drums please, Fab?

did anyone notice that the museum that preston scott cohen added on to in tel aviv (published in arch record recently) is also shaped like a swastika? an arts building in israel built in the 70s. who cares? a swastika is an ancient symbol - any opportunity to reclaim its old meanings should be welcomed.

a swastika in plan view is a swastika no one perceives (and 'tis great for egress)

Dec 18, 11 12:23 pm  · 
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logon'slogin

Crescent to Americans like cross to Count Dracula. 

Dec 19, 11 12:51 am  · 
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drums please, Fab?

OMG FLW did a crescent of embrace, too!!1!one!1two

Dec 19, 11 1:44 am  · 
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