I haven't entertained this career move, but I come from a line of realtors, both my dad and my grandfather are brokers, and I worked for a few years at the MLS/Association of Realtors. I know when my dad first started out he didn't really turn any sort of decent profit (and this is as a salesmen at a office not on his own) for almost a year. I know they generally tell new agents to have enough finances set away to survive for several months. If you work your tail off though, you can begin to make quite a bit of money (compared to what you were working) but you won't be up to 44k untill you can establish yourself with a set of clientele (i.e. people are less likely to go to joe/jane blow when they've heard from friends that eddy suchandsuch is an established agent) It also depends on the agency you work for, as you'll be paying fees usually to have your desk there as well as MLS and association fees etc.
In short, real estate is a hard industry to make a quick fortune from, not that it doesn't happen but you'll be pulling a lot of hours to make that fortune happen. Invest what you do wisely, as your going to be pressed to start and architecture firm and show property at the same time. I'm assuming moving to an area with a lower cost of living isn't an option?

thanks for your thoughts. may i ask what part of the country your father and grandfather practice in? i know that in new york there are, in fact, many realtors and the competition is stiff. i also know that this is so because of the ease of becoming licensed as most anyone can become a salesperson but many are not committed to it. so, i am at least hoping to be at an advantage to these latter. i am, however filled with doubt as this detour could cost me more time that is not devoted to what i really want and that is to open my own architecture office... also, i wanted to ask if when you say that i i won't "be up to 44K until i establish a clientele", do you mean this for when i am a broker and not just a salesperson. in other words, are you saying that as a salesperson alone i won't make money, i must become a broker?

I left the world of the large coprate architecture firm for design/build construction company and yes, did recieve more money. However, the myth that architects work long hours, or more than others is absurd. Im at work min 12 hours a day - so hourly I guess I took a pay cut.

If you need to make ends meet, and squirrle away cash in hopes of starting your own practice then your doing right. The connections you'll foster in the real estate market could become great assets for an architectural practice client base - esp in a people to people city like NYC.

Just one more example of why we need people to participate in NaNa[M] (See Post "Just Go Do Something Else For A While").

Basically, this post asks all architects to consider doing work(or something else) in another field for a month, or so. Or, find another place than high-dollar NYC to set up shop. Essentially, the purpose of this is to have architects show their value, especially to hig cost-of-living areas, and for architects, as a whole, to ask architects to be more proactive about going after more money.

anza - i wouldn't give up on architecture yet. maybe the career isn't the problem, it might be location. maybe try working at a small firm outside of nyc (or starting your own firm)...the cost of living will be lower and potentially business will be better. but yeah, its a difficult situation when you can't make ends meet...you gotta do what you gotta do.

just imagine if architects were truly paid for all the time and energy put into their projects...we'd be the richest people on earth! hahahaha

anza,

i think that you're in for a rough ride. back in late 99/early2000 i attempt nearly the same switch, except i went into financial planning (i.e., stockbrokering, mutual funds, insurance sales, etc.).

as you might remember, at the turn of the century the stock market was near its peak and the "experts" were arguing over whether it was the peak of the bubble or just an inevitable step towards prosperity for all. i think we all know what happened. today's real estate market seems to be sitting in a similar scenario. anyhow, i was hired on as part of an aggressive expansion by a financial firm and when the market turned we all got slammed (well, actually i think a few did make it, maybe 2-3 out of 50-60). the point being that sometimes there are larger forces at work.

architecturegeek and evilplatypus make very good points. real estate sales (actually any sales) is a very hard profession. if you think architects get shit on, wait until you get stood up/porched at 8pm by joe schmoo after you travelled an hour to get podunkville to show him a house. sales is hard work. and even worse, if the market makes a down turn, the atmosphere in the sales office will be miserable, truly hell on earth. the bosses will start implementing all kinds of stupid rules (everyone has to be accounted for from 9am to 9pm, if not with a client or prospect, then making cold calls, etc.) it will get tense in the office, promises will be broken. these are the kind of places that monitor phone calls for customer safety but they can (and do) pick up on private calls as well. if you aren't cut out to succeed, you might fall very fast.

marketing is the key. you will need sales and you'll need them quickly to get off the ground. and you will need the help of all your current friends and colleagues, if any of them are planning on buying or selling real estate any time soon, you'll want to wrap them up as your first deals. don't be afraid to ask. if your friends and family won't help you then who will.

anyhow, i'm sorry to sound pessimistic here, i do hope you succeed for your own sake. at the very least you are in for a truly priceless learning experience. if i were to bet, i'd say that within two years you will be back in architecture.

Anza,

Do you like real estate or do you like the money real estate could bring?.......It is a very educational experience (contrary to what most people say) to do something simply and purely for financial gain. I think it's an awesome idea. I think that you will do great. If you have been trained to sell and idea about a building yet to be built selling the building already built shouldn't be far of a stretch, specially when there is a good commission waiting at the end. I wouldn't necessarly see it as leaving the "architecture profession". I would see it as evolving yourself within it. I do have two words of advise: 1)Network 2)Find your market. If you focus on those two you'll do great. In fact I'm sure there is already a demand for you. There are clients out there waiting for you right now. Go for it!!

Tectonic makes an interesting point about pre-sales. While it's similar to building spec homes, you could sell your designs as homes to be built if you could work a deal with a builder. That could foster both you architecture and real estate practices.

ANZA- My family is in Montana, not quite NYC but the real estate market is just as saturated with agents per capita.

if you think architects get shit on, wait until you get stood up/porched at 8pm by joe schmoo after you travelled an hour to get podunkville to show him a house. Damn straight, try driving people around for a week and then them deciding that they're not really in the market. In sales your time really is money, if your wasting time with a client that isn't serious your missing the money from the next guy who is ready to buy.

also, I know in some areas there are real estate agents that specialize in only architecturally significant buildings or only modernist architecture. Use some of your connections in the architecture field as well.

architecturegeek-

funny. that was a mini-article in this month's dwell. i also know there's a firm that the guy bills himself as AIA... mus' be one of the fallen ones.

your responses have been very helpful. afterall, i guess, i am not quite ready to leave the architecture stage. i think there are a lot of good points made for relocating to lower the costs of living.

your posts have also helped me in rethinking what i am worth and becoming a tougher negotiator when i am offered a position. i think, ultimately, i am not in love with sales or the cut-throat environment business environments foster. especially thanks to architecturegeek for offering your insight about real estate through your first-hand knowledge from your family.

puddles, thanks for sharing this parallel experience. it is true that the real estate market is very hyped at the moment and could collapse in a hard way overnight, the parallel you make are all points well taken and they voice a fear i've had on my own...

tectonic, i hope i don't disappoint. your upbeat spirit and encouragement are an attitude worth embracing in any direction one may go.

i guess, i really had to let this possibility pass through me to fully understand the implications and understand its not for me...

firuz, i am on the track of taking your advice, i have just called the person that hired me and cancelled my appointment for signing on with the firm this afternoon. i figured, there is no point into running into more debt for something i am not absolutely convinced i want to do... something that i am doing as a kind of desperate move...

i am open to relocating wide and open where-ever i can find a position that pays and also does good work. so, rather than spending another six hundred dollars on the real estate venture, i'll spend some time carefully considering what i can do with architecture given what i know.

evilplatypus, your point too is well taken. all too often i hear of people leaving the large corporate world of architecture in pursuit of something else. i probably won't run to the corporate world but seek better paying work in small firms even if it means relocating.

anza,

you say you're becoming a tougher negotiator, congratulations, that's the first step to becoming a good sales person. you've already learned something.

since it sounds as though you are going to stick with architecture, you can always get a fill of the "sales experience" from any of a number of movies, "glengarry glen ross" "wall street" "boiler room" "death of a salesman" even "jerry maguire"...in retrospect, those movies are a lot more accurate than i would have ever guessed.

puddles - I nearly worked in a "boiler room" type company. After the initial orientation I realized that it probably was something just a tad shady and decided not to take the job... And I was right, they were shut down less then a year later.

anza,

if you just want to make some quick $$$, there are other avenues, that are design based, like exhibition design etc, that will give u better money are are much better than real estate sales in terms of the quality of life..and yes i think that NYC, as cool as it is, is a bit too expensive and grossly overrated for what it is.

Even offices in LA pay much better than those on the east coast, and the cost of living here is arguably lesser than in NYC, even if you have a car

sameolddoctor, i wonder if i should start another topic thread here about quick ca$h for architects...

have never considered exhibition design... sounds like a really good idea... do you know where i would look for this type of work?

i wonder what other ways are there for making quick cash with architecture?

Anza,
Perhaps you can afford Architecture. It might just be NYC that you can't afford. $60K in NYC is not much. $60K in say, Atlanta, might make your life a little easier.