depends on what's on the pages? sometimes I get submittals where they just staple together the whole catalog.... anyway, it seems unreasonably rushed, are they critical path or something that can't wait 3 days? don't have memes, sorry.
but, when I get a pushy GC (typically it's the really junior construction managers who do the must pushing) asking for immediate turn-around, I point to the section in our specs/front end that says like 5 days for shop reviews. Our p.engs have 10 days and they will take every minute.
My standard reply to requests for quick turnaround: "
Please refer to specs. We have 10 business days to respond, and now that you've asked for an impossible deadline, your request is going to the back of the line."
Came here to say the exact same thing about 10 business days. I generally just pick a day of the week (usually Friday) & do them all at once one after another. Otherwise it's a constant back and forth & I never get anything drawn.
Just scan the documents for something seriously wrong, because it's probably there, and then stamp it and send it back revise and resubmit. Then you can use the month it takes them to provide a revised submittal to review what they sent you the first time and likely won't be changing much of so that when they want you to return it in a day next time you'll be ready...
Been there, done that. Only went along with it because it was mission critical to the project. GC did treat me to a nice dinner later on though, and it was with a GC that I enjoyed working with. Probably wouldn't have been so receptive if not.
It's important to recognize when things are critical & that you do occasionally have to bust ass to turn something around next-day. It's perhaps more important to instill in your GC that only actually critical things are critical, and labeling *every* RFI "High Priority" does not make me magically answer them faster.
Don't let them make you the scapegoat for blowing the schedule.
Channel Nancy Reagan and just say 'no'. Tell them that beacuse of the rush and the clear impossibility of doing due diligence in 24 hours it looks suspiciously like the contractor is trying to hide something and you are now going to spend whatever time is necessary to go through the submittal with a fine-toothed comb. Which is of course what should happen anyway.
On the other hand you could just channel me and tell them to fuck off.
if the contractor is good enough at communicating why they need the quick turnaround, then what you're trading them for is time on other submittals. so ya, if you can't do 24 let them know maybe you can do 48, but if you give them 2 days on this submittal that you're allowed 10 days to review, all the other submittals that are supposed to be returned in 10 days are going to lag past that date. this can't turn into a "i need everything now" situation because that's bad, but if there is a real critical path item that's going to mess up a bunch of other trades, then it is what it is.
I have a hunch that 750 of those pages are useless warranty and standard installation details, none of which are germane to your review. Let me know if I'm close.
Contractors can help themselves by submitting what's necessary and not every document they can find on the manufacturer website.
don't forget the LEED & MSDS required info sheets in there too. Nothing like getting a 200 page submittal... ripping out 98% of the pages and returning it to the GC. The worst is when you get the entire gypsum board or tile GC submittal in one pdf and without a table of content. 50 different items with no structure. In that case, I have a little table I put in a word doc and list those I can find and comment. The GC is then asked to reply to each line item with a separate sub if a resubmission is required instead of flipping back a giant doc. Easier for everyone to keep track of who need to do what.
Pete, here's a few cropped section. I split the columns between submitted product name , expected name as per spec/dwg, review comments. Missing from the snips (most are a few dozen item long) is our review snap and signature.
Thanks, I think. This level of detail is not for every project but since I'm also likely the one to do site review, I make it as easy and as simple as possible for the GC to understand the comments. A one-liner see spec or resubmit without context eats up time as will unnecessary revisions or follow-up emails. I also read all the notes and will flag any TBD or ? notes and will require the removal of all weasel text from the shops (aka arch to confirm site, any errors will result in a billion $ extra, etc).
We (I) definitely use a table and include reasons if I'm accepting with notes (like providing a color for what the contractor said was TBD, etc) but I use the express line at the grocery store as an analogy to all GCs, limit 10 items or less for unstructured tableless submittals, otherwise it's autorejection
This thread reminds me of something I saw on twitter recently (and might have posted in the mental health thread here).
Someone posted that when their significant other started complaining about work, they asked "Stop: before you go on, are you looking for problem solving or sympathy?" and that this helped them avoid lots of arguments.
I just wanted sympathy, you guys! In the form of funny memes!
My wife and I have trained each other that if we complain about something, the correct response is, "Sorry, that sucks." If problem-solving is desired it has to be asked for. Though sometimes it's hard to resist.
Anytime I ever get a request like that, my response is always...sure I can turn it around in 24 hours if you're okay with the response being "rejected".
Creative responses for "Here is an 800 page submittal please return within 24 hours"?
Is my contractor unreasonable, or am I?
Looking for gifs and memes that will make me laugh while I face untenable deadlines.
depends on what's on the pages? sometimes I get submittals where they just staple together the whole catalog.... anyway, it seems unreasonably rushed, are they critical path or something that can't wait 3 days? don't have memes, sorry.
"No problem, I'll just set aside this pay app."
24 work day hours is like 3 days. Plenty of time.
but, when I get a pushy GC (typically it's the really junior construction managers who do the must pushing) asking for immediate turn-around, I point to the section in our specs/front end that says like 5 days for shop reviews. Our p.engs have 10 days and they will take every minute.
My standard reply to requests for quick turnaround: "
Please refer to specs. We have 10 business days to respond, and now that you've asked for an impossible deadline, your request is going to the back of the line."
Check the general conditions. AIA boilerplate gives you 10 business days to turn a submittal around.
Of course, I try to never take that much time... unless it's passive-aggressive. This seems like a time for passive-aggressiveness.
Came here to say the exact same thing about 10 business days. I generally just pick a day of the week (usually Friday) & do them all at once one after another. Otherwise it's a constant back and forth & I never get anything drawn.
Nothing more satisfying than clearing a backlog of 10 submittals on a Friday.
Just scan the documents for something seriously wrong, because it's probably there, and then stamp it and send it back revise and resubmit. Then you can use the month it takes them to provide a revised submittal to review what they sent you the first time and likely won't be changing much of so that when they want you to return it in a day next time you'll be ready...
only slightly joking.
I’ve rejected drawings because they misspelt my office’s name on the cover sheet.
...or the client's name.
NS ...I rejected elevator shop drawings because they didn't convert the dims to metric :)
Ahip, I do that often.
They said return it, they didn't say how.
https://www.foldnfly.com
Been there, done that. Only went along with it because it was mission critical to the project. GC did treat me to a nice dinner later on though, and it was with a GC that I enjoyed working with. Probably wouldn't have been so receptive if not.
It's important to recognize when things are critical & that you do occasionally have to bust ass to turn something around next-day. It's perhaps more important to instill in your GC that only actually critical things are critical, and labeling *every* RFI "High Priority" does not make me magically answer them faster.
This particular GC was great at only labeling things critical that truly were. Others though?
Don't let them make you the scapegoat for blowing the schedule.
Channel Nancy Reagan and just say 'no'. Tell them that beacuse of the rush and the clear impossibility of doing due diligence in 24 hours it looks suspiciously like the contractor is trying to hide something and you are now going to spend whatever time is necessary to go through the submittal with a fine-toothed comb. Which is of course what should happen anyway.
On the other hand you could just channel me and tell them to fuck off.
if the contractor is good enough at communicating why they need the quick turnaround, then what you're trading them for is time on other submittals. so ya, if you can't do 24 let them know maybe you can do 48, but if you give them 2 days on this submittal that you're allowed 10 days to review, all the other submittals that are supposed to be returned in 10 days are going to lag past that date. this can't turn into a "i need everything now" situation because that's bad, but if there is a real critical path item that's going to mess up a bunch of other trades, then it is what it is.
I have a hunch that 750 of those pages are useless warranty and standard installation details, none of which are germane to your review. Let me know if I'm close.
Contractors can help themselves by submitting what's necessary and not every document they can find on the manufacturer website.
Paper the file!
don't forget the LEED & MSDS required info sheets in there too. Nothing like getting a 200 page submittal... ripping out 98% of the pages and returning it to the GC. The worst is when you get the entire gypsum board or tile GC submittal in one pdf and without a table of content. 50 different items with no structure. In that case, I have a little table I put in a word doc and list those I can find and comment. The GC is then asked to reply to each line item with a separate sub if a resubmission is required instead of flipping back a giant doc. Easier for everyone to keep track of who need to do what.
I'd like to see a copy paste snip of that.
Pete, here's a few cropped section. I split the columns between submitted product name , expected name as per spec/dwg, review comments. Missing from the snips (most are a few dozen item long) is our review snap and signature.
Holy shit. I've never seen anything so detailed. Yeah, we keep logs, but to write out reasons is just above and beyond imo. That looks crazy
Thanks, I think. This level of detail is not for every project but since I'm also likely the one to do site review, I make it as easy and as simple as possible for the GC to understand the comments. A one-liner see spec or resubmit without context eats up time as will unnecessary revisions or follow-up emails. I also read all the notes and will flag any TBD or ? notes and will require the removal of all weasel text from the shops (aka arch to confirm site, any errors will result in a billion $ extra, etc).
We (I) definitely use a table and include reasons if I'm accepting with notes (like providing a color for what the contractor said was TBD, etc) but I use the express line at the grocery store as an analogy to all GCs, limit 10 items or less for unstructured tableless submittals, otherwise it's autorejection
.
.
This cartoon is so dumb I don't know why I love it so much.
.
He gone gurrl.
Thanks for the memes, b3ta.
This thread reminds me of something I saw on twitter recently (and might have posted in the mental health thread here).
Someone posted that when their significant other started complaining about work, they asked "Stop: before you go on, are you looking for problem solving or sympathy?" and that this helped them avoid lots of arguments.
I just wanted sympathy, you guys! In the form of funny memes!
Sorry Donna... for once I attempted a real answer(s). Here's my peace offering:
p.s. He's rocking out to Celine Dion.
My wife and I have trained each other that if we complain about something, the correct response is, "Sorry, that sucks." If problem-solving is desired it has to be asked for. Though sometimes it's hard to resist.
Whoops. I shall return with the top memes of the day!
Can’t decide if I hate the 800 page submittals or the 4th round of revisions submittals more.
4th round, easily.
oh man, I've been reviewing a submittal for trim joists for a month, every time they forget something. 4th round should do it.
dark but...
Anytime I ever get a request like that, my response is always...sure I can turn it around in 24 hours if you're okay with the response being "rejected".
https://images.app.goo.gl/mEnE...
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.